Want to save some money on your vehicle? How often do you change the oil in your car? If you listen to advertising from Oil Can Henry and Jiffy Lube, you’d think a change every 3,000 miles was essential. You’d be wrong.
Last winter, an AskMetafilter user wondered:
Is the 3,000-mile oil change a scam? My wife, like a good American driver, goes for an oil change every 3,000 miles. My dad, like a good British driver, has never gone for an oil change in nearly 30 years on the road. There’s no equivalent of the quick-lube shop in the UK; manufacturers ‘recommend’ yearly/twice-yearly changes (or 12-18,000-miles) but standard practice is just to top up the oil level sporadically. Is there something specific to US-model cars or American driving practices that makes frequent oil-changes necessary, or is it just a nice little earner sustained by popular wisdom?
The responses vary — and nobody who answers is really an expert — but the consensus seems to be that yes, it’s a scam. (Or, more precisely, a marketing ploy.)
Change your oil every 5,000 miles or so, or as recommended in your owners manual. But don’t let yourself be swayed by advertising from quick-lube places: they’re just trying to increase their sales by 40%.
(To save even more money, learn to change the oil yourself.)
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Just to add my two cents worth…I worked for a GM dealer for years. (Yeah, I know, I heard all the dealership bashing.) Over the years, I had several mechanics harp on the importance of 3000 mile oil changes. It is what they all did on their own personal vehicles.
One case in particular that stands out in my mind is a woman who bought a brand new Cavalier. At 42,000 miles she brought it in as the engine was blown. She was requesting a new engine under warranty. When the factory rep inspected the car, it still had the original oil filter on it. Her request was denied. IF she had changed the oil, her engine would have been fine. If the car had truly been a lemon and the engine had blown anyway, GM would have paid for a new engine ONLY if she had followed the maintenance schedule.
It has been said elsewhere but I will repeat it, if there is any possibility that you may be eligible for any warranty work, follow the manufacturer’s maintenance schedule and keep your receipts. If you want to push the envelope with oil changes to save some money, wait until after the car is old enough that there is no way you’ll ever need warranty work done. If you don’t follow the manufacturer’s maintenance schedule, you void the warranty.
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A question one should ask is: If the oil will only last 3000 miles what is wrong with it? The answer is it is cheap oil! There are many companies now that produce a oil that will go 7500 miles or more, and if you can use a calculator, a high quality synthetic cost LESS than a cheap 3000 mile oil. Not to mention more MPG, less waste oil and cooler running engine. I have heard many old school mechanics say synthetic oil is no good, etc. But the truth is…a high quality synthetic oil will outlast and outperform ANY dino oil on the market. Just as bias ply tires and 8 track tapes have been replaced, so to dino oil is on the way out.
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Lets “DO” the math on oil changes. If you are a DIY’er. to get to 15K miles on dino oil is 5 oil changes. If your car has 5 quarts and 1 filter. 5 x 5 = 25 quarts and 5 filters. Oil 25 x $3.00= $75.00 plus 5 oil filters 5 x $4.25= $21.25 adds up to $96.25. 10 quarts of synthetic oil @ $6.25 = $62.50 and 2 oil filters, $8.50 adds up to $71.00. The cheap dino users just overspent by $25.25. Plus think of all the waste oil and time the cheap dino oil user is wasting! For kicks run these numbers out to 250,000 miles! Plus a high quality synthetic oil maker will stand behind any engine failure do to using their oil. Keep you records!
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Ask any trucking company that does their own oil changes in house what method they use. The answer most will give is they base their oil changes on oil testing. A big rig holds anywhere from 35 to 60 quarts of oil, so needless to say a oil change on a fleet is BIG money. Trucking companies will pull a 4 to 6oz sample and send it to a lab which performs oil testing and advise how much life is left on that sample. You cannot tell by looking at the oil on the dipstick or by the color or smell…only by testing in a lab. So if anyone says they looked at the oil and it needs changing, you need to change mechanics. This is just information to clear up myths and hearsay about oil.
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Years ago I looked into buy a oil change franchise, and I will let the cat out of the bag on oil changing! Before oil went sky high, the cost of regular dino oil was about .35 cents a quart{in bulk} and the oil filter was 1.00. So a 5 quart oil change cost $2.75!! Your cost? $29.95 or more! Plus the AOS, which is add on sale. The deal is to get a $50.00 ticket average. Oh and the guy changing oil? Minimum wage. If I could get you to come back every 3K miles…so sweet for me. Not you! I know this will make some in the industry mad as hell, but so be it. But the synthetic oil companies tell you, use LESS of their product not more. Just food for thought.
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I said it before and I’ll say it again. “Change your thinking not your oil.” Use Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil and an Amsoil EaO oil filter and you’ll only need to change your oil once a year or at 25,000 miles whichever come first.
For example Amsoil 10W30 Synthetic Motor Oil sells for $8.70 a quart and the average Amsoil EaO oil filter is around 16.95 making total annual cost $60.75. Simple math shows that saves a lot of money in the long run. Amsoil’s 36 year history of making synthetic oil has been proven to last the stated 25,000 miles.
Using 3000 mile intervals as the interval for changing oil, at $50 per oil change, adds up $400 over the same 25,000 miles that one Amsoil oil change will cost $60.75 Simple math and common sense says that adds up to an annual savings of $340.25.
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Bottom line is that the 3,000 mile oil change isn’t a scam and applies to conventional oil usage in older vehicles. Some oils last longer and some vehicles have longer service intervals per manufacturer specification. The article above is written by an uneducated person wanting to save a few bucks. Take what they have written with a grain of salt. 3000 miles is the normal interval for all cars, unless stated otherwise in the owners manual.
If you are buying into this Amsoil product that Nick Roberts seems to have a passion for, I warn that periodic checks on oil level are required. You wouldn’t guess how many people go without checking their oil dipstick, leaving it to get checked during their 3000 mile oil changes. Now lets say that this person now changes to Amsoil product which lasts a year. That person then doesn’t check their oil for an entire year. What if they have an oil leak? Even the smallest oil leak will leave your car dry on oil by the end of the year, perhaps causing serious engine repairs because of engine seizure.
So whatever you decide to use as your oil, one thing should stay constant.
CHECK YOUR FLUIDS PERIODICALLY. IT IS GOOD PRACTICE TO DO A QUICK CHECK UNDER THE HOOD WHENEVER YOU FILL UP ON GAS. A TWO-MINUTE QUICK CHECK CAN SAVE YOU TROUBLES DOWN THE ROAD.
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In reference to Auto Tech’s latest post I would like to clear up a couple of items.
Before I get into that though I want to say that Auto Tech makes one very astute statement which is to …. Check Your Oil!…. It is vital part of owning and driving a vehicle to be aware of the periodic maintenance required to keep it running and failure to check the oil can be catastrophic.
His statement that my posts are uneducated is unwarranted and incorrect. As for the statement of wanting to save a few bucks he is correct… but that seems to be the main focus of Get Rich Slowly; save money by paying attention to the many small ways we nickel and dime ourselves out of money so I don’t understand why he thinks what I’m saying is wrong. One average vehicle’s Amsoil oil change annually is approximately $65 v/s eight oil changes in 24,000 miles which would cost around $50 each at most quick lubes and adds up to $400. The annual cost saving in dollars alone is $335 not counting the time saved.
As for my education I’m a Quality Control Professional in the automobile industry. In addition to my Bachelor’s Degree from the University of Louisville I am also a graduate of Villanova University where I earned a Master Lean Six Sigma Black Belt. I am also very well read in the technology and parameters of lubrication and filtration as they apply to motor vehicles.
I am also an avid auto enthusiast, who has been servicing my own vehicles for over 40 years, as well as an avid motorcyclist. I sponsor several race teams that use Amsoil Racing Products in such varied venues as Go Kart Racing, Legends Cars, Drag Racing and Motorcycle Land Speed Racing at the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah.
There are very few cars on the road today that have the 3000 mile interval in their owner’s manual. The owner’s manual is the best source available to any car owner when it comes to what the manufacturer recommends. If you doubt this statement then go get your owner’s manual and check for yourself. The manufacturer’s recommendation is based on an average quality oil and filtration which doesn’t take into account the advantages of premium synthetic oils and their counterparts, synthetic media filters.
The 3000 mile oil change was needed in the earlier days of motoring due to the quality of petroleum oil additive packages and the design of air filtration which used an oil bath to trap dirt before it entered the engine. An oil bath air cleaner is very inefficient and was replaced around 40 years ago with the paper air filter that is still in use today; though that too is changing in favor of synthetic filter media which was pioneered by Donaldson Filtration, the world leader in filtration, during the Gulf War in the 1990′s.
The air filter is the most critical filter on any engine because the greatest amount of dirt in an engine’s oil system enters with the air needed to support combustion. The oil filter itself is the second most important filter because it must have the capacity to trap and hold the dirt that gets past the air filter as well as the wear metals and combustion byproducts that an engine produces and hold them for the entire drain interval.
As I have stated several times in this discussion I am an Amsoil Dealer and do not hide that fact. I use and sell Amsoil Lubricants and Filters because they are documented to perform as advertised which is an oil life of 25,000 miles in normal service. Amsoil oils are designed with the industry’s best and most robust additive package on the market today and are a premium product. They are not the cheapest oils nor are they intended to be wasted in engines that leak oil or are in such poor mechanical condition that they already use excessive oil.
Even our nearest competitor Mobil 1 has adopted an extended drain interval of 15,000 miles while GM, Ford and many other manufacturers have extended their own recommendations well beyond the quick lube, old school thinking of 3000 miles. In Europe the intervals are even greater often as high as 15,000 and beyond before oil change is needed.
If you want to use cheap oils and filters such as those typically offered by quick lube shops, Walmart and other so called bargains then by all means continue to change your oil at 3000 miles. It’s your money and you can waste it as well as the time required to follow the 3000 mile advice or you can step up to a premium quality synthetic oil and superior filtration and actually save money and time; the choice is yours.
I’m sure someone will answer this post with anecdotal evidence that he or she has gone “X” number of miles changing their oil at 3000 miles without any mechanical failures which they will say proves the validity of 3000 mile intervals. It does not prove anything in that it doesn’t back up the claim with statistical data showing how much wear and how much friction their choice has actually produced. Amsoil on the other hand has been proven through rigorous testing, using industry testing and industry benchmarks, to not only last 25,000 miles but to reduce wear and improve fuel economy by reducing the amount of friction in an engine.
Please, before you attack me or my reasoning about Amsoil, google Amsoil and try to find even one instance where what I’ve stated about Amsoil Products has been refuted. Amsoil is an American company that has been in the synthetic motor oil business longer than any other manufacturer anywhere. Amsoil has been selling synthetic motor oil since 1972 and is the only oil manufacturer that offers 25,000 mile oil life and backs it up with a guarantee that they will pay for any repair that is shown to be a result of Amsoil Lubricant Failure.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. If you want more info feel free to email me at amsoildealer@mac.com. I welcome your questions and will give honest answers backed up with lab data and proven performance.
Nick Roberts, LSSBB
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3000-5000 miles is a scam. Amsoil…nuff said. I’ve used it for years in my cars and recently had to change a valve cover gasket. Inside, the rockers look like new, no sludge or build up of any kind. Use a quality air filter too, this keeps added trash out of your oil as well.
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Full disclosure: I sell oil. And I wont try to sell you anything here.
Nobody knows what’s good or bad for a vehicle better than a good fleet manager. If a fleet manager were to say that he’s going to save money by not changing oil, his ass would be canned. We can test oils that have been ran to give them an idea of how close they are to breaking down. What I can say is not all oils are created equal. Our oils cost a little more, but they can double their miles on ours vs our competitor’s. That saves in oil and in maintenance.
If you’re using a good oil, there’s no reason to change your oil every 3k.
And to the guys who are driving new cars and not changing oil. I’m flabbergasted. Assuming your oil doesn’t completely break down and you’re out an engine right away, eventually the small metal fragments that develop with engine wear are going to ruin your engine.
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I don’t claim to be a mechanic or be an expert in this field but from my experience it’s been much cheaper to change to oil regularly than deal with the repair potential. I change my plugs every year, I take my cars for a tune up/check up every year, I check and top up my fluids every week and change my oil every 3000/4000 miles dependent of my driving. The only problems we have had is a starter needing replaced and other small items.
My in-laws, who also follow the same car care routine, sold their late 80′s GMC Suburban to their daughter with 220,000 miles, she then drove it for a further 60,000 miles. Thing was still running! She sold it on again and last we heard was still on the road.
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The world has moved on from this. No one, possibly with the exception of the US, is changing oil at 3,000 miles.
Most of the world’s top manufacturers are specifying 18,000 miles or more. I can assure you, we see average family cars run as taxis with 200 or 300K miles on the clock no problem. And we drive a fair bit quicker too!
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Changing your oil every 3000 miles at a reputable quick lube is a wise thing to do.
regardless of what the owner manual says. You get your tires checked and inflated, washer fluid filled, ball joints greased if applicable, wipers replaced if needed, coolant filled, gear boxes checked, unexpected leaks spotted. For a few dollars of around 20 or 30 bucks this is fair service and a fair price without the oil being changed. Having them replace your air filter can increase fuel mileage as much as 10 percent. The constant bombardment of quick lubes is unwarranted. Imagine what happens to your burger at burger king. That is something to bitch about.
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one thing I could not find in all the postings here is condensation. if you live in a always warm climate this is nothing to worry about. a hot engine cooling off in freezing weather will develop condensation in the crankcase walls. this next to internal anti-freeze leaks and no oil changes is the leading cause of crankshaft and camshaft bearing failure. gritty oil leads to oil burning due to scored cylinder walls and shaft or rod seals.no type of oil or filter will protect you from moisture. the moisture problem is why manufacturers give you the months intervals to change oil. a vehicle which sits alot,such as the little old lady down the street’s 85 delta royale needs to be change every 3 mos. a crankcase can condensate just sitting there. An average vehicle which is driven, change every 5-6500 miles or 4 mos. I use conventional motor oil and when If start to get suspicious of my oil towards change time I add marvel mystery oil, half a quart in the crankcase, the inside of my valve covers look like new, and the other half in the gas tank .I notice better compression immediately and will drive about 5-800 more miles before oil change. my 4.3l v-6 87 chevy astro cargo van work truck with 290000 miles runs great and uses 2 quarts of oil every 6500 miles,Puffs at startup. it only started using oil after 240000 miles when I started pulling a 6000 pound loaded cargo trailer almost daily for 2 years. I dont use synthetic oil because I used it in a brand new car once and it started leaking at a seal, took it to the dealer and the mechanic told me that syn oil find a way to leak far before conventional oil because it is so slippery,switched to conventional oil and the leaked stopped,traded the car at 80000 miles and the leak never returned.
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I took my 2010 Prius for its first oil change. I had a “free” oil change card for the dealer that sold me the new Prius. They told me to bring it back at 3k interval rather than the 5k interval that is in the manual. Seems like they drained out the synthetic 0w20 and put in their (mineral) house brand of oil rather than the 0w20 synthetic that Toyota manual suggests.
Anyone else had such a screwed up dealer?
Is this a Toyota thing or is my dealer a crook?
If the mineral gunks up the engine since I should be using synthetic, who do you think should pay?
Any suggestions on who to contact to get this straightened out? FTC? Attorney General? Toyota? Lawyer?
I have written the dealer for answers but they ignore my questions.
I will be changing my own oil, from now own.
Anyone want a couple of free oil change cards from my local Toyota dealer (crook?)?
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Switch to Amsoil and buy it from me. Check my previous posts on this site and you’ll see that I have consistently given factual and valuable lubrication advice.
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Although I use and sell Amsoil I would never go to a site like this and try to push it. It’s really unfortunate that there is still a ton of misinformation out there regarding oil changes. It all comes down to the oil manufacturer not the car manufacturer. Amsoil has been producing 25,000-mile oils since 1972 so I think they know what they’re doing.
You can easily go this long with Amsoil and you shouldn’t let either your dealer or your owners manual dictate to you anything different. It’s funny that within the last 5 years or so both Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge came out with oils that last 15,000 miles and nobody said a word…hum. Amsoil Dealers such as myself take a lot of flak over our long drain intervals, but we know they work. I love it when people say they change their oil often because “it’s cheap insurance” no it’s not cheap it’s very expensive and time consuming.
But the big kicker is this; the people that bad mouth extended drain intervals have never tried them, especially Amsoil. Now I have tried the 3,000-mile thing for nearly 20 years and guess what? It sucks and it cost too much so for those of you who haven’t tried Amsoil try not to make comments when you have no proof that it doesn’t work.
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I change the oil in my Jetta every 10k miles using synthetic oil and send a sample to Blackstone Labs every time. What I find out about the results is that I could probably go a few more thousand miles. You have to go by the car manufacturers recommendations. My Toyota is 5000 miles. A 3000 mile oil change is great for a 1977 Oldsmobile. Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine’s oil get some age on it.
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Look, lets talk reality. Engines today are smaller, with more horse power, and tighter tolerances. The oil we put in these engines, unless you know of any tougher new dinosaurs dieing, comes from the same ground. Oil is oil (excluding synthetic), and breaks down. 3000 mile oil changes are actually more important than ever. Sure Oil companies want to sell oil, but car companies want to sell cars, and you can belive that you will spend a lot less money on oil in your car, than you will on a new car because you are too cheap to properly maintain it.
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I agree with Dennis. The limit of 3000 has more or less been created to provide a sort of flexible limit for people to oil there engines. How many of us still go over that 3000 limit and perform a maintenance when we have regularly driven 1000 over that limit. Now, if the car companies had to give you 5000, there will still be folks who would go over the limit and then complain to the manufacturer. I always try to stick to the manufacturer limits.
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When you add in the wages, cost of the oil and the filter and the overhead of running the shop (lights, rent, heat, etc.) nobody is getting rich from doing 3000 mile oil changes. I ran a shop for over 20 years so I know something about this. The money is made from the upsells, tranny flushes, air filters, wiper blades, etc.. 3000 mile interval is required on some older vehicles. Newer ones can get by with less frequent changes. Just make sure you follow your manufacturer recommendations, at least while your car is in warranty. Also, for some folks, the shorter interval is cheap insurance. That is, if you have a good mechanic and he/she can spot problems early on and advise you properly.
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I have a car VW Passat 1.9 TDI, 2003. Last time i put the oil was April 2010 it means 19 months ago, i drove for 23000 Miles now. The engine is running perfectly and the oil is perfect. I use full syntehtic oil Castrol brand. Everything is perfect, i think changing oil is a ploy by the oil companies. I am never going to change the oil in my car. i add every 7k by 100 ml of fresh oil, this is according to the manufacturers recommandation.
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Service providers using the 3k as a standard is a scam. My husbands diesel truck can go 7k to 10k between changes. My Honda CRV can go 7k. My husband is a certified engine geek and has years of oil analysis and filtration studies. Good filters can extend oil intervals much longer. Each system is unique so he tells me to follow the manual. Actually, he says RTM. (Read The Manual). (I left the “F” out to keep it clean.)
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