16th Amendment: Am I a signer or signatory on the U.S. Constitution – NO. I’m not their posterity. The U.S. Constitution, IMO, is a contract. Read “No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority” by Lysander Spooner. Make up your own mind. I’m sure there is more to it but this is just a start. Still researching.

Cheers!

In the U.S. Code a word definition is the excepted meaning unless the definition is given in the code. If it is given in the code then that meaning and only that meaning is the definition.

Now look up the definition of words like income, gross income, employee, individual, person. Make sure you look in the section of the code interested in.

Could some one tell me if Austalia has the same Constution laws as United states. Please if possible could someone who known our system please advise us Australians, as it is getting hard, and harder to live with all the extra tax that they apply…

Would love to hear some true facts…

“poor if you do, jailed if you don’t… ”

Absolutely Preposterous. Hogwash. Poor?

On a global level, the ‘system’ under which we live has you enjoying a robust standard of living, relatively. The rewards of your daily travails likely far outweigh your actual toils. Countries with a similar or higher standard of living pay much more in income taxes (and in my experiences don’t whine about it so much), and folks in countries with no income taxes aren’t bragging about their standard of living.

Yes, the constitution provides for two (2) types of taxation, direct and indirect, income taxation is neither, it’s a third form of taxation not sanctioned by the constitution and not apportioned. The other “laws” cited in the comments here are not laws but codes,statutes,and procedures. There IS NO LAW holding an average working American LIABLE for failing to file a federal income tax return.

But that wouldn’t stop them from arresting you I suppose, poor if you do, jailed if you don’t…

No problem. Glad to be able to provide new information. Vernice was new to me and it was interesting to read about.

Regarding Cole S. Law, I don’t think he was referring to you as a “nutjob.” Looking at his blog, his entry was made July 4th, 3 days before your entry here. I don’t think he was referring to you.

Thanks for finding the ruling where she paid! That is exactly the information I needed to know. Funny though, only three pages show up when I google it. One is this blog, another associated with it (coleslaw) and the IRS. I am sure you can understand my difficulty finding the information.

as for the article in coleslaw…did you really need to be condescending and refer to me as ‘nutjob’? is it really in your best interest to call names? I had a serious question about Vernice. I really wanted to know the answer and hadn’t seen information regarding her actually paying taxes.

Thank you again Vintek for the info.

Before we go on ad infinitum about this tax issue, please read http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf first, or we’re going to talking about this forever.

Not true. Clause 12 of Section 8 is as follows: “To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;” The 2 year period only refers to the appropriation of tax money for defense; it does not refer to the collection of taxes.

“I understand the 16th amendment wasn’t properly ratified”

Your understanding is flawed. This argument is based on the premise that all federal income tax laws are unconstitutional because the Sixteenth Amendment was not officially ratified, or because the State of Ohio was not properly a state at the time of ratification. This argument has survived over time because proponents mistakenly believe that the courts have refused to address this issue.

The Law: The Sixteenth Amendment provides that Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on income, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration. U.S. Const. Amend. XVI. The Sixteenth Amendment was ratified by forty states, including Ohio, and issued by proclamation in 1913. Shortly thereafter, two other states also ratified the Amendment. Under Article V of the Constitution, only three-fourths of the states are needed to ratify an Amendment. There were enough states ratifying the Sixteenth Amendment even without Ohio to complete the number needed for ratification. Furthermore, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the income tax laws enacted subsequent to ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment in Brushaber v. Union Pacific R.R., 240 U.S. 1 (1916). Since that time, the courts have consistently upheld the constitutionality of the federal income tax.

“Section 26 of the USC also states what areas it applies to. Oregon isn’t a district, territory or other Congress governed area.”

It’s a state, and Congressional law does have jurisdiction over Oregon, as it does over the other 49 states.

Of course, this only works for off-line transactions. On-line, you are screwed no matter what.

Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution also states Congress may only collect taxes for 2 years.

Section 26 of the USC also states what areas it applies to. Oregon isn’t a district, territory or other Congress governed area.

Is nobody going to respond to the fact that even the IRS commissioner when questioned, could not point to the law?

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/ for the movie coming out

or let’s talk about Vernice Kuglin … http://www.google.com/search?q=vernice+kuglin&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

let’s take a look at her trial. For 9 years she didn’t pay. Sent a letter each year to IRS asking for the law that compelled her.

When the IRS took her to court they didn’t show the judge the law and she walked away.

Why wouldn’t the IRS have just opened the books and shown the law to the judge? I would have thought that would be the easiest way to find her guilty of not paying…

I am really not asking to be a jerk. I would really like to have an open debate about it without any one simply assuming that what everyone does is the correct thing. Sometimes what the herd is doing isn’t the right thing. Just cause everyone does it, doesn’t make it right.

I have no problem with State and even now, county taxes. I just happen to think our government ran fine pre IRS. It was much more under the power of the people than the other way around.

For those persons who’ve never “seen” the anything that requires them to file taxes, lets consider the following: 26 USC 6011 requires a person to file a return if they are liable for taxes. How do you know if you’re liable for taxes? 26 USC 1 will tell you, but here’s the gist of it: (a) There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of (1) every married individual… (2) every individual not married or a surviving spouse, tax according to the attached tables. Then it lists the “tax brackets”. You can decide which bracket you fall into.

Keep in mind that an individual’s obligation to pay taxes to their state government is completely separate from their obligation to the federal government.

Thus endeth your civics lesson for today.
Lawyer Dave

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106498,00.html

Basically: you do have to pay income tax, and there are plenty of laws on the books that say so.

I’ll make this the subject of a main entry in the future…

Check Title 26, section 6012. Maybe it’s out of context, but it seems fairly clear to me.

Also of some interest is section 861, which defines what is taxable income. You can access both here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/#SECTIONS

The Constitution of the United States is considered the highest law of the land. The 16th Amendment has not only been ratified by Congress, it has been signed by the President and ratified by the States. Are you telling me that you’re not accepting the Constitution as law? Any lawyer, judge or first year law student would tell you otherwise.

Meanwhile I will continue to pay my income tax, because I don’t like the idea of people telling me when I can see the sky.

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”

“The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;”

Aaron Russo’s new movie America: Freedom to Facism does a prett y good job of asking that question. Not even the IRS commissioner could answer that question.

For your amusement, here’s the original 1040 form:

http://www.interocitor.com/archives/000286.html

It’s actually understandable. Odd.