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Title changed to more accurately reflect post content. Thanks for pointing this out, guys!
Frugal folks are often condemned as cheap, but these things are not the same. But sometimes there is a danger of becoming too concerned with money. Tawra Kellam warns about crossing the line from frugality to something less ethical.
There are times when it’s tempting to lie, steal or break one of the other 10 Commandments to get a good deal but, in living frugally, we all need to stick to being honest. This is not always easy to do.
She provides examples of behavior she views as ethically questionable:
- Instead of taking one free pen from a bank or store, you take a handful.
- “You buy an item and you use it a few times and then return it because you’re done with it.”
- You lie about age — you say that your 13-year-old is younger so that you only have to pay the child rate, or you lie about your age to get the senior citizen discount.
There’s nothing wrong with trying to save money. Thrift is a virtue. But in each of Kellam’s examples, someone is trying to save money at the expense of somebody else, or at the expense of the truth.
I’ve received the following tip from several readers: “Costco offers a no-questions-asked return policy. You can buy something, use it, and then when a new model comes out, return it to get the new one.” I haven’t shared this suggestion because I believe it crosses an ethical line. Other examples of behaviors that go beyond frugal:
- Asking for a cup for water at a fast food place, but then filling it with soda instead.
- Claiming that a vending machine took your money when you didn’t even use it.
- Leeching a neighbor’s wireless connection without permission.
There are grey areas, of course. Is it okay to take your own food to the movie theater? I do it, and so do many other frugal people. Does it cross the line?
Kellam writes:
Frugal living is about making good financial decisions. There are so many things you can do to spend your money more wisely, so when you think you can get a “good deal”, but it requires doing something that hurts someone else, pass it up.
Ultimately, only you will know whether what you’re doing is right or wrong. But if you lie or steal in order to save money, you’re not being frugal, you’re being cheap.
[4MomsAtHome: Frugal ethics: When frugal becomes just plain cheap]
.jpg "The Money Blog Network - Improving your bottom line")
October 4th, 2006 at 9:43 am
I disagree with you regarding wireless access. At least you used the term ‘leaching’ instead of ’stealing’ though I still think that using an open wireless signal is perfectly acceptable. If a person is concerned abour their wireless signal then they should encrpyt it and protect it with the appropriate firewalls and passwords and all that tech-security stuff. However, if I turn on my computer and see that there is an open-network, why should I not use it? As long as you don’t hack into another person’s computer I think it’s perfectly fine to access the internet using whatever signal may be floating in the air.
Some interesting side notes: How do I know that they didn’t intend to make the network open to other users? If a signal is out there inside my home or on my property without being invited in- is that signal not trespassing anyway? An idiotic notion I know– but it is also idiotic not to protect your wireless signal!
October 4th, 2006 at 9:55 am
J.D. I agree with you 100%. My uncle is cheap like that. He’ll lie, cheat and steal to get a good deal (or a free deal). It’s morally unethical. Like you said, there is nothing wrong about trying to get a good deal, but make an honest choice!
In response to Chris: I disagree with you. Not all home network owners know how to protect their wireless internet. If their signal is open, you could (and I know this may be hard to do) ASK for their permission to use THEIR internet and at the same time, possibly be a good neighbor and inform your neighbor about their unsecure wireless internet.
Great post!
Josh
October 4th, 2006 at 9:59 am
October 4th, 2006 at 10:14 am
Good post…I’ve definitely done things in the past that I regret in order to save money or get free stuff. But I still don’t feel bad about using my student ID to get into the movie theater at a cheaper rate. I don’t have to go to college to be a student…I learn something new everyday!
October 4th, 2006 at 10:42 am
I think the wireless thing is a gray area. On the one hand, I have no problems using a open wifi network I happen upon if I’m out and about and just need to send a couple of emails or surf the web bit.
But leaching off your neighbor 24/7 seems to cross a line–you should either approach them and offer the split the Internet bill (this way everyone is better off) or get your own.
October 4th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Maybe this should be retitled “When Frugal Becomes Just Plain Stealing.”
Really, most of these things boil down to theft or, at best, become very problematic under my “what if everyone did this?” principle.
My major disagreement is with bringing your own food into movie theatres. Most movies are 90 minutes or so. You don’t NEED to eat during that time. Popcorn used to be a basic part of the movie experience but theaters have raised the price unreasonably and prohibited bringing in your own food in order to gouge their customers.
So, my viewpoint is this: I’m going to see the movie and there’s no way I’m paying $7 for popcorn and a soda. I’m bringing my own snacks.
If the theater finds a way (turning me upside-down and shaking) to prevent me from bringing in some nuts, I’m STILL not going to buy their food. I’m just going to enjoy the experience a little less.
Smart theaters would find a way to raise profits other than artificially raising the price of popcorn and soda. How about some incredibly delicious snacks that are only available at the movie theater?
October 4th, 2006 at 11:15 am
I’m glad George brought it up, because I also don’t like the title of this post. I recognize the difference between frugal and cheap and overall I am just plain cheap. But I’m also staunchly opposed to theft and fraud and when I call myself cheap I certainly am not saying I do any of the fraudulent things you list out.
October 4th, 2006 at 11:40 am
I found it hilariously ridiculous and hypocritical that the same people who have a problem with using an open wireless network advocate bringing food into a movie theater… I’d say that food in a theater is a much more grievous offense.
Not knowing how to secure your wireless network does not mean I should refrain from accessing that network. I should refrain from hacking into their computer— but ignorance is not a defense. And it’s not THEIR internet. There is some interesting legislation currently about the internet but the internet is actually not anyones. If anything, I am using THEIR wireless signal that is invading my property
I understand your point- but it’s not THEIR internet.
If a neighbor is so concerned that their signal could be used to access the internet then they should take restrictive measures. However, I can not agree that I am stealing from my neighbor if i access the internet using a signal that comes from their wireless router. I especially can not agree when that argument comes from people who see nothing wrong with bringing food into a movie theater.
October 4th, 2006 at 11:55 am
The leeching wireless is stealing if it costs your neighbor something, either monetarily (ie, they have to pay for bandwidth you’re using), loss of privacy, or loss of service if your use of the signal is cause for their provider to shut them off. I just don’t see how it’s any different than walking into their kitchen and eating their food. The “their internet” argument is a non-starter. It’s not YOUR road and yet I’m not allowed to use your car to drive on it.
I used to work retail and we’d get the clothes renters all the time. That’s just low-class.
Food in theaters…if there isn’t a policy against it, why not? Walk in the door with your mike and ikes in your hand. But if you have to sneak it in, or they have a policy explicitly against it, then no. As mentioned above, it’s 90 freaking minutes. Go out for Denny’s or whatever when you’re done. Your in their building and should follow whatever rules you agreed to follow by paying for your ticket.
October 4th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
“There is some interesting legislation currently about the internet but the internet is actually not anyones. If anything, I am using THEIR wireless signal that is invading my property
I understand your point- but it’s not THEIR internet.”
You’re picking at words. Obviously JR meant “using their uplink to the Internet”.
But the whole point of a discussion of ethics is to find out why those lines are where they are. It’s not helpful to say that you find the food thing unethical and the wifi thing ethical if you don’t tell us why.
Here’s my take: When I enter into a contract with a company to show me a movie, they’re not including any terms about food, so I’m free to do my own food. But I’m not entering into any contract with my neighbor nor is any implied, so I can’t use his unprotected wireless.
Another take that I’m not sure I completely agree with: If the theatre had full knowledge that I was bringing my own food in, would they object? I don’t think they would if you were reasonable about it. If my neighbor had full knowledge that I was using his wifi, would he object? Probably, yes. (If I knew that answer was “No” then I’d be happy to use it.)
As to radio signals “invading” your property, the law is clear: In North America you don’t have a right to a property free of radio signals.
October 4th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
which is why I lock my car
With car stealers and property invading wireless signals nobody is safe these days!
October 4th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Dear Chris, et al
Frequently with home broadband access, leaving your wireless signal open violates your agreement with the carrier. Check the fine print. So no, it’s not ok to leave an open signal for anyone to use whether it’s with permission or not.
Sucking up other people’s bandwidth is generally not a nice thing to do. I prefer the speeds I get from my wireline connection anyway so I can’t understand the point of wireless. Of course, I live in a tiny apartment too and don’t really have a desire to sit ergonomically incorrectly on my couch to browse the web.
As for the larger philosophical issue, I am very glad that JD brings it up. Some people have very fluid moral and ethical boundaries and I have to admit, that’s a red flag to me in terms of what I will and not will not share with a person. Even something as simple as a plate of cookies or a candy dish at work can bring out the worst in people.
October 4th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
“I prefer the speeds I get from my wireline connection anyway so I can’t understand the point of wireless.”
Wireless in this context is a local-area network, not an uplink to an ISP. 802.11G is 52Mbps peak throughput. It probably averages out to 10-20Mbps. The speed you get from a wired connection on the LAN will be 10 or 100Mbps.
*All* of those speeds are faster than your uplink to the Internet unless you’re in SE Asia. Around here, 3-5Mbps is typical consumer DSL or cable.
So the speed of wireless is the same as the speed of a wired network, once you leave your house — and the point is that there are *no wires*.
October 4th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
I agree with Nathaniel regarding the wireless access. The nice thing to do is to offer to split the bill. Just because something is not nailed down, doesn’t mean it’s yours to steal or that it’s the owner’s fault if it does get stolen.
Also, if you are person who buys things, uses them and returns them, please know that the employee that returned it for you (because they had to, because “the customer is always right”) hates you and will talk about what a cheapskate jerk you are behind your back. You will also from then on be considered someone who is likely to pull a scam or shoplift and watched accordingly on your next visit to the store.
October 4th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
Snarla, the owner of the shop I worked at wouldn’t take back rented clothes, but if an employee did while he was out, the owner would invite the customer to not shop at his store the next time they were in.
Another wonderful group of losers were those who vandalized clothes, taking a pair of scissors to a seam of their “rented” pants to make the item “defective” in order to return it. Had someone actually do that at the counter once.
Another ethical point that drives me nuts are the folks who take advantage of a mistake. A friend bought a couple of speakers years ago. He didn’t say a word when the warehouse guy gave him FOUR speakers, said warehouse guy not knowing they were packaged two to a box. Or people who hand someone a ten and the clerk accidentally makes change for a twenty, and they don’t say a word.
So, is it ethical to buy something at a garage sale where you can see that it is grossly underpriced, probably because the seller is ignorant of its true value? Or when the little old lady down the street asks you if $100 would be too much for the “old car” in her garage when it’s a rare classic worth $100,000?
October 4th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
Chris, I can’t agree with you. Taking food into the movie theater a grievous offense? Not remotely. Whoever it was that pointed out that the contract in question is about the movie, not about food, had the right approach. The fact that movie theater food prices is a matter of gouging an audience which paid to be there is entirely relevant to the question of justice.
There are in fact two choices going on here. Americans choose not to make a federal case– literally- of the fact that the movie-distributing business is effectively a monopoly, which allows these prices to be as high as they are. And the movie theater freely chooses not to enforce this rule– though they could by requiring searches to enter their private property– because they don’t want to enrage people and make them boycott the theater and pursue the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. This is a wash; an unenforced rule is no rule at all.
As for someone else’s internet signal, that’ll depend on whether they’re using it too at the time. If so, definitely wrong– you’re depriving them of speed that they’re paying for. If they’re off at work and it’s just going to waste, then…that’s a closer question. But it’s still wrong. The payor doesn’t care; no skin off their nose. But though the company is getting paid the same whether it’s being used or not, it’s causing a actual, literal expense (using their servers, that is) to the company which the company didn’t sign up for. The fact that no benefit flows to the purchaser is key.
October 4th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
Oh, and Roger? You said,
“So, is it ethical to buy something at a garage sale where you can see that it is grossly underpriced, probably because the seller is ignorant of its true value?”
It’s entirely ethical. Dealing these things is a business like any other. Acquiring the knowledge of it is as complex and time-consuming as law school, and should you give it away for free? And the free market is constantly a matter of competing judgments about what something’s worth. Are supermarkets obliged to tell you, “X supermarket is selling this item cheaper than we are”?
You’re also making an investment in this antique, or car, on which you might lose money. If you turn out to be wrong– it’s a modern reproduction, for example– should you be able to bring it back to the little old lady and ask for your money back? No. Neither of you is offering a guarantee that it is what the other person thinks it is, and that works both ways.
October 4th, 2006 at 7:20 pm
In my experience, people who do these sorts of things often *aren’t* frugal. My dad’s a classic example — he’ll lie and cheat to get a buck off something at the grocery store, but it’s something he didn’t need in the first place, and he doesn’t keep a budget or have any idea how un-frugal his grocery spending is in the first place.
October 4th, 2006 at 7:35 pm
Taking what someone is offering for free isn’t unethical. And yes, that’s what an unsecured wireless network is. It has to broadcast its existance for you to connect to it. Many businesses do this intentionally to allow people to connect from their establishments and attract more business. Not securing your wireless isn’t ignorance anymore, with as much publicity as it’s gotten; it’s right there in the manual! It’s like leaving a jar of candy on your porch with a sign that says, “Have some.”
But if you’re using their bandwidth in a way that’s taking advantage of the hospitality–not signing up for your own ISP or offering to split costs even though you use it every day, or downloading music/movies that could get them in trouble, say–then that becomes in my mind equivalent to seeing the free candy and walking off with the whole jar.
I really can’t dredge up a feeling that using the wifi from somebody near the bus stop to check email while you’re waiting is wrong. On the other hand, when my old employer was using his neighbor’s wireless exclusively, I told him I wasn’t going to help him with it until he got his own internet connection, and he did. A couple butterscotch drops versus the whole container. The degree matters.
But the real lesson here is that unless you want to share internet access, secure it. There’s no way for a stranger to know the difference between the internet connection you mean to share and the internet connection you don’t but haven’t secured because you don’t know how.
October 4th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
Assuming that “sharing” and not “leeching” is what we’re really talking about, making responsible use of open connections does no more harm to your neighbor than using the remaining minutes on a parking meter does to the person who’s already left the space. In fact, using open connections was the norm in the early days, and the perception that it was “stealing” didn’t come about until wireless adapters became commonplace. It’s hard to argue that something is inherently negative or even “grey area” when it seems to be an issue of portrayal or, at worst, of scalability instead.
October 4th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Wow. Wifi leaching on Get Rich Slowly. Who would have though.
If a neighbor pays for a band to come perform at a party in his yard, and you sit in your yard enjoying the music, is that wrong?
If the neighbor plays the radio loud enough for you to hear, should you pitch in to pay his electric bill?
How about if you really like the way his flower garden makes your yard smell? Flowers and mulch can be pretty pricey.
I don’t think using other people’s wifi is unethical, usually. I liked the free candy jar analogy. If you’re just taking a bit now and then, that’s not wrong or even impolite. If you’re running bittorrent 24/7, you should probably get your own line.
Doubly so if you’re somewhere where internet is charged per minute or per Gig.
October 4th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
People who sneak food into a movie theater agains the rules of said theater are dishonest and cheap. I do not like the high prices that theaters charge for snacks and I can sit through a 2 hour movie without eating. If it is not against their rules then go for it. If it is, then pay their price or don’t eat.
October 5th, 2006 at 2:46 am
[...] (3) Money and Values: When Frugality Goes Too Far http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/ [...]
October 5th, 2006 at 5:22 am
I take my own food into the movie theater, but not because I’m cheap. I’m working very hard on getting over my sugar addiction and trying to lose weight. While it isn’t necessary to eat during a two-hour movie, it is very difficult to not feel really hungry amid the smells of fried chicken and pizza that my local theaters now offer.
Were the theaters to offer healthier alternatives I would gladly fork over the insane prices. But I think it’s unfair to claim that people who don’t want to pay this amount are dishonest and cheap. By not eating their food you are also being cheap. And as long as you’re not stealing their food it really should not be affecting their business.
October 5th, 2006 at 6:12 am
Lets face it, most people aren’t really using hardly any of their bandwidth, so ussually, you are not hurting them in any way.
I don’t see what the big deal is. If I somehow hacked or evaded their keys or whatever, that is a totally different subject.
Otherwise, you just have to assume it’s cool.
I leave mine open… I use my computer ALOT and I have way more bandwidth than i can use. Upload is the only bottleneck… GRRR ON ISPS LOCKING DOWN UPLOAD and forcing us into being ‘consumers’ instead of ‘producers’ so to speak.
Is it wrong to lie about your kids ages when sending them by themselves on the airplane? I think 75$ a kid is ridiculous.
I didn’t feel bad about ‘cheating’ the airline company, but I did feel bad about lying…
Same thing with a ‘no speedbelt’ ticket I lied my way out of, heh.
October 5th, 2006 at 6:18 am
Very interesting conversation here.
Obviously, there are no clear-cut mores in these situations. And I’m no exception. I refuse to use my student ID at the theater now that I am out of school (almost all of my friends still do), but I will put a bottle of water and a candybar in my bag for a movie anytime instead of buying them at the theater. I think the movie theaters are price-gouging with food; I pay my ticket to see the movie, and any additional exchanges of money and items are, in my opinion, negotiated separately.
My husband is one of the most ethical people I have ever met, but he eats two or three pieces of cheese from the samples in Whole Foods when we are grocery-shopping, and I would never do that.
When we are traveling, if we need wireless for a few minutes, we’ll see if there are any open networks we can use for our laptops. We don’t see this as stealing because joint usage of the wireless connection has no effect on the person who pays for it, as long as the additional user isn’t sucking major bandwidth. However, at home, we pay the downstairs neighbors $15 a month to share their wireless connectivity, since we use it every day.
My way of thinking about this topic is whether an action I take is reasonable–whether it benefits me without harming another person or making that person rethink the generosity. I think it’s reasonable to pay $7 for a movie ticket if I can take my own food in to it. I think it’s reasonable to borrow internet for a few minutes knowing it won’t affect the other person’s connectivity. I think Whole Foods is being generous in offering cheese samples (even knowing they’ll sell the cheese that way), so I only eat one piece.
If I have to lie to do something, it’s generally unethical, as well. But we’re going to have our own ideas of what that means. I think the most important thing is thinking through these issues instead of just acting selfishly without a second thought.
October 5th, 2006 at 6:56 am
uh, I hate to break it to you guys, but bringing your own food into a movie theater is an exact example of “trying to save money at the expense of somebody else”.
Movies theaters do not charge high prices for food because they are “trying to gouge their customers” as one commenter has said. (I would even argue that the price they charge is not technically ‘high’, because it is obviously the price the market is willing to bear as evidenced by the huge number of people in line, but that is neither here nor there.) The *real* reason movie theaters charge so much for their food is because, due to the way the movie distribution system works, they make little or sometimes even no money off of ticket sales. The vast majority of ticket revenue goes directly to the studios.
So if you weren’t going to buy food anyway then you should be OK right? Wrong. Its a rule the private property owner sets so that he has a chance to make money and keep his theater open. How would you like it if you invited someone into your house and they brought you a bottle of wine as a gift (ie. ticket) and then they violated your most basic rules of your house? You probably wouldn’t. The house guest is even partially excused because you probably don’t have a huge sign stating the rules of your house, but the movie theater does.
So either way you look at it, you are either stealing or breaking the golden rule.
My solution: just don’t eat or drink anything for 90 minutes. The human body is a wonderful thing that can go for sometimes as long as 4 hours without eating junk food (although i wouldn’t recommend trying something THAT extreme).
October 5th, 2006 at 7:03 am
I totally understand the desire to take your own food into movies due to the outrageous cost (that $5.00 popcorn takes less than 10 cents to make – quite a mark-up). However, I’ve noticed that the movie theatres I’ve been to actually post a sign on the door prohibiting outside food & beverages. To me, that means that my agreement upon entering this private establishment is to comply with their rules. And now that I no longer eat or drink anything that movie theatres provide, I know that I have to either go without snacks or not go to the theatre. It usually means that I stay home and rent a movie. But that is the choice you have to make when you decide to be an ethical person or an unethical person. Going to the theatre is great fun, but it’s not a right. It’s a privilege extended in exchange for paid admission and compliance with their policies. I agree with the earlier post about becoming an instrument of change in the way the movie studios essentially gouge the theatres. If theatres have to price their concessions so ridiculously in order to make a profit, there is obviously a problem. But the solution is not to turn around and rip-off the theatres again. This is a sure way to ensure that theatres become obsolete. The studios don’t need them –they would still rake it in if everything went to DVD, satellite and web-based viewing. If you like the theatre experience, you have to embrace it in total or work to change it.
If you are tempted to take in your own food due to health or special dietary concerns, I would suggest asking the manager of the theatre if it would be okay to bring in your own organic carrots and distilled water in pyrocarbon bottles, for example. It would be obvious to the manager that he/she will not be making a profit on your concession purchases and you may receive permission. (Or, with enough demand, might they start carrying natural health foods?) But if there really is a health code regulation prohibiting it, you will have to respect that the management is committed to operating within the code and comply with the rule. (The ramifications of willful health code violations are obviously disturbing.)
Wow! I guess that’s my soapbox quota for the week.
P.S. Yes, I drive over the speed limit (by 4-5 mph), so I accept that I am hypocritical in my “complying with the rules of privileged activities” statements. Crap!
October 5th, 2006 at 8:07 am
Wow, JD. Hot topic, apparently. This comment I’m submitting is less about being frugal and more about being mischievous but still amusing if you haven’t seen it. Instead of just encrypting your wireless network, you can have fun screwing with your would-be-wifi-leechers if you’re technically inclined. (Scroll down to the bottom to see the effects.)
October 5th, 2006 at 5:10 pm
JM is completely right. People seem to think it’s OK to cheat when things are expensive, but not when they’re cheap. If you don’t know already, read JM’s post. Movie theaters DON’T make money on ticket sales. Movie theaters only really make money on concessions. By you stuffing your mouth with your own food, you’re taking food out of the mouths of those movie-theater workers.
Ok, that was a little dramatic. Pussfeller said they didn’t mind lying about their kid’s age for an airplane seat. “I think 75$ a kid is ridiculous.”
Why is it rediculous? That kid takes up the same number of seats as an adult who has to pay likely twice that. Do you understand how airplanes work? Do you understand the enormous amount of fuel a single airplane consumes while in flight? Do you think that airlines have had to repeatedly get “bailed out” by the U.S. Congress because they charge too MUCH? Yes, flying on an airplane is expensive — but that’s life.
As for the wifi issue — should it be ILLEGAL or use up all the bandwidth on your neighbors open wifi connection? No. It most certainly is unethical, but it should never be illegal. If you know enough about networking that you could make a helpful suggestion to your neighbor, you should certainly do that, as well as informing them about what the implications of leaving their network open are (including network shared folders and the like.)
Still though, I don’t think it should ever be illegal. If it is, then it should be illegal to sell a wireless router that can be set up without locking down the network.
This is not an unlocked/locked door issue. When you leave a wireless AP open, it’s not an unlocked door — no one is still coming into your house and using our couch — this is a matter of you running your stereo loud enough that your neighbors can hear it. If you don’t want them to be able to enjoy your music for free, you need to sound proof your house or lower the volume — the neighbors should not be forced to plug their ears.
October 6th, 2006 at 11:02 am
[...] Get Rich Slowly looks at the difference between being frugal and being cheap. [...]
October 6th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Hm. Though ppl say wireless in my house should be just as fast as a wireline connection, every time I’ve been at a friend’s place, the WiFi seems very slow.
I’ll have to do some checking on the speeds available to me, but either way, I don’t have a laptop. $1100 bucks for a desktop and nice flat panel with DSL beats a $2K laptop, wireless router, etc if you ask me. Is my math wrong on that? (B/c I’m stuck up and I know most laptops I’ve looked at are pretty pricey.)
As far as the movies go, don’t buy food ther and don’t sneak it in. Just eat before you go or afterwards. Duh. And if someone thinks something is wrong with the revenue model of the movie theatre, then don’t go. Vote with your feet here people. Money is very democratic that way.
October 6th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
I have an even better way to save money at the movie theatre - I don’t go! Then not only do I save the cost of the popcorn, but the cost of the movie too!
October 7th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
Jordan, I don’t think Pussfeller meant lying to get a cheaper ticket price for a kid. The kid pays the same price for the ticket as an adult. However airlines, for example USAIr, charge an extra $40 each way for an unacoompanied minor age 5-14.
October 10th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Judy and Jordan,
It makes perfect sense that USAir charges $40 extra for an unaccompanied minor, because they are required to be looked after by an airline employee. This is an extra service that is NOT provided to adults, therefore adults pay a lower fare.
As for airlines charging absurd fares for under-2’s, I find this absolutely absurd when the under-2 is sitting on the adult’s lap. They aren’t taking a seat, they aren’t eating the “food”, they aren’t consuming any other resources but air, and yet airlines charge as much as $400 for a infant to travel on a lap from Florida to London. Unfortunately, you can’t lie your way out of that one
October 10th, 2006 at 4:54 pm
I never have any desire to eat anything in a movie theatre. Maybe drink some water or something if the movie was really long. But yes their pricing model is based on making money off concessions. I teach the model in my managerial economics class. There are lots of these tied price price discrimination models out there. On wireless internet it is pretty easy to stop people using it if you want to stop them so that the current convention seems to be - no password = please enter and use.
October 10th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
Hit a nerve.
I will not address the ethics war, but you may want to be careful on the WiFi issue whether you believe it to be ethical or not.
Unauthorized access to computer systems (including networks) has been illegal for a while now. Some courts have interpreted unauthorized access (got to love the specificity of our legislators) very broadly, largely, I believe, due to lack of understanding of the issues.
So think twice before leaching/borrowing/sharing. It is hard(er?) to get rich while in prison.
October 13th, 2006 at 6:35 am
Interesting, this excerpt is from a book I’m currently reading, “The Working Poor”:
Tim Brookes, a commentator on NPR, once did a witty screed against overpriced popcorn in movie theaters. Indignant at having been charged $5 for a small bag, he conducted research on the actual expenses. He calculated that the 5 1/4 oz of popcorn he received cost 23.71875 cents in a supermarket but only 16.5 cents at prices theater managers paid for fifty-pound sacks. He generously figured 5 cents in electricity to cook the popcorn and 1 cent for the bag. Total cost: 22.5 cents. Subtracting sales tax, that left a profit of $4.075, or 1,811 percent.
That’s something to chew on…
October 20th, 2006 at 12:45 pm
MyOpenWallet Unveils Festival Of Frugality #43…
MyOpenWallet unveiled Festival of Frugality #43 with a new concept of presentation of posts. We really liked the new way in which the articles were put forth for the audience. Please do visit the Festival to see it for yourself. Our post was publishe…..
November 1st, 2006 at 11:38 pm
[...] Oct. 4th: Money and values: When frugality goes too far [...]
December 8th, 2006 at 7:47 pm
Wow. What a lot of posts on the entire wifi issue. There are so many places in my little rural town that offer free wifi it is not an issue.
Movies for free from our local library so the cost of the ticket and snacks is also a non issue. The last time we were in a theater was for…I think the movie was Alien. That was a long time ago.
May 24th, 2007 at 5:17 am
I have no problem stealing from those who steal.
Movies are a great example of this. $18 to see a mediocre movie and another $15 to get a simple drink is disgusting. That being said, that food there does more against you than for you. It’ll hook your kids on sweets and bad food, and soda is just gross considering what they put in it.
February 18th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
I used to work at Century Theatres and always thought it was funny how people tried to sneak in food. Century didn’t have a policy against bringing in food so there was no need to be stealth about it. However, this was 15 years ago and I no longer go to movies so I don’t know if they’ve changed the policy. I think AMC had a rule against bringing in outside food so people thought that applied to any theatre.