Basic Tips on Tipping: How Much and To Whom?
Published on - October 12th, 2006 (Modified on - October 16th, 2006) (by J.D. Roth) Every time I get my hair cut, I’m faced with a dilemma — should I tip the barber or not? I usually get my hair cut in a small-town shop. I tip $2 on a $12 haircut. If I get to hear stories about Vietnam or histrionic political rants, I tip $3, even if I don’t agree with the barber’s viewpoints. (I tip because I’ve been entertained.) Sometimes, if I don’t have enough cash, I don’t leave a anything at all. Are these tips appropriate?
What about when I pick up Chinese takeout? Should I have tipped the guys who delivered our new gas range last fall? What about a hotel bellhop? A parking valet? Out of curiosity, I did some research on tipping practices in the United States. There’s actually significant disagreement about how much to tip for even common services.
For example, you know you should tip your waitress. But how much should you leave? Some people claim that 10% is adequate. Others claim that 20% is standard. But I suspect that most of us learned to tip 15%, and to give more for exceptional service. (The wikipedia entry on tipping currently contains the bizarre claim that “18% is generally accepted as a standard tip for good service”.) Which amount is correct?
After browsing dozens of pages, I drafted the following guide. The amounts listed are based on averages or on consensus, when possible.
Food Service
- Barista
- No tip required, though many suggest throwing coins into the tip jar.
- Bartender
- $1/drink (or 15% of total bill). Pre-tip for better service.
- Delivery person (including pizza)
- 10%, $2 minimum (also, also)
- Maitre d’
- $5-$25 for special efforts
- Takeout
- No tip required unless something special is done (also, also)
- Waiter
- 15% for adequate service, 20% for exceptional service. For poor service, leave 10% or less. It’s okay to leave nothing for exceptionally poor service, but only if you’re sure it’s the waiter’s fault.
Hotel Staff
- Bellman/Porter
- $1 to $2 per bag, $5 minimum. (Or, just as many places say $1 bag, $2 minimum.)
- Concierge
- $5-$20 depending on the service. $20 if he does something exceptional. Nothing for directions.
- Housekeeper
- $2 to $5 per night, paid daily or as a lump sum at checkout. (Most sites suggest you tip daily.)
- Parking Valet
- A wide range of opinions. Everyone agrees that you should pay when your car is retrieved. Some say to pay when it’s parked, too. Most sites say to tip $2, though some suggest $5.
- Room service
- $5 minimum (unless gratuity is included in check)
Travel
- Bus driver (not mass transit)
- $1 to $2, if she handles luggage
- Cab driver
- 10%, $2-$5 minimum
- Chauffeur
- 10-15%
- Gas station attendant
- Nothing. Or $2-$4. There’s no agreement. (I’ve never seen anyone tip a gas station attendant ever.)
- Porter/skycap
- $1 per bag. $2 for heavy items, or if porter brings luggage to counter.
Personal service
- Barber/Hairstylist
- Again, little agreement: 10-15%, 15-20%, etc. One person recommends $5 to each individual who shampoos or blow-dries your hair! (also)
- Manicurist
- 15%
- Spa service
- 15-20%
- Masseuse
- 10-15%
- Shoe-shiner
- $2 or $3
Other
- Building superintendent
- Varies —read more.
- Coat checker
- Most sites recommend $1 per coat, though one said $2 to $5 upon retrieval.
- Furniture deliverer
- It depends. Most of the time $5-$20. Some recommend simply offering cold drinks. (also)
- Grocery store bagger
- One site recommended $1-$3, though I’ve never seen one tipped in my life.
- Mover
- $10-$25 per person (also)
What about tipping at holidays? Tipping service people with whom you have regular contact can build goodwill. I found these recommendations:
Holiday Tips
- Babysitter: one week’s pay
- Doorman: bottle of wine or box of chocolates
- Garbage collector: $15 to $25
- Gardener: one week’s pay
- Housekeeper: one week’s pay
- Janitor: $15 to $25
- Mail carrier: $15 to $20 (up to $20 non-cash)
- Nanny: one week’s pay
- Newspaper delivery person: $15 to $25
- Parking attendant: $15 to $25
- Personal trainer: $20 to $50 (tip discreetly)
Some points regarding tipping etiquette:
- If you use a coupon or gift certificate, calculate your tip based on the total before discount.
- Tip above the norm if:
- Service is exceptional,
- You’ve been a burden, or
- You are a regular client.
- Don’t tip if it’s not deserved. Poor service should not be rewarded.
- In some circumstances, if you offer an initial tip — especially a large initial tip — you’ll get better service.
- If you take up a restaurant table for a long time, tip extra.
- Tip discreetly.
- When in doubt, tip.
What about public officials? When is a tip a tip, and when is a tip a bribe? My wife and I tipped the judge who married us, but even then we had trouble deciding how much to give him. (We gave him $50.)
I suspect that tipping practices vary widely from region-to-region and, especially based upon the size of the city. As always, do what works for you.
Other articles about tipping:
- How to tip in a foreign country
- International tipping etiquette
- Is it better to tip with cash or with credit?
- Tipping at weddings
- Tipping relieves guilt more than it provides incentive
- Tipping etiquette (which is actually the best guide I found)
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Ann:
Sorry your hotel pays you so badly a lot of hotels/ resorts out here in Californina pay $10 or more and most people do tip the house keepers. Or hotels automatically charge the guest for your service.
But us servers do clean too. At the end of the shift we sweep, rewipe the table. Stock our station and tables. At night some restaurants have us sweep and mop vacuum if there is carpet, or hokey. Host usually cleans the bathroom, but some restaurants has the server do the bathrooms to. So no we do not just bring out food and drinks.
And thats just the end of the shift.
During shift we deal with the guest and you get the people who have had a bad day and take it out on you. You have people who think they are better than you and belittle you just because you are a server. So as I said before SERVERS DON’T JUST DELIVER FOOD AND DRINKS.
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Yes, there are alot of behind the scene things that servers do that people don’t know. We also have to clean as we go, keep everything in the kitchen stocked and try and explain to people why things are taking so long when the kitchen is behind. That’s not a fun thing to do because alot of times guests take their frustration out on the server and then we have to go to our next table and do it again and appear to be having a good time. There is a long list of things that servers have to do that I’m not even going to get into.
Maybe servers are worth $25/hour and hotel people should be paid more, I don’t know.
Serving is not a job just anyone can handle. If you think we just take your order and serve you a couple of drinks then I’m afraid you don’t know what you’re actually talking about. I don’t mean to be rude by saying that, but clearly it needs to be said.
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ok i’m sorry i didn’t know that but my aunt was a waitress 30 years in new york and never bussed a table or cleaned bathrooms they had buss boys . the only cleanig if cleaning she did was folding napkin and putting spoons and forks and knives with it .i guess evey state is diffrent.
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Tip your barista. Not because she makes the best damn coffee drink you’ve ever had (for that you keep coming back), but because her boss expects you to.
Cafe owners pay a wage rate that doesn’t necessarily reflect the talent or efficiency of their baristi, but rather the amount of tips that will be accumulated. At every cafe I’ve worked, I have always been told that I would make a certain amount per hour, but “that my wages would really be about $3/hour more because of tips.”
Consider that, the next time you confront your tipping dilemma. Baristi don’t earn commissions for selling/preparing your beverage. And cafe owners rely on you to directly pay for part of their cost of doing business. Don’t believe me? When you’re in your fav cafe ask your barista, “how much do you make pulling espresso?” Your likely response will be, “about $14/hour including tips…”
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Lets think of serving like a cleaning agency. but where each house gets to choose how much they pay the person. The person cleaning the house still gets a base pay prob around min wage…. and each house pays them based on what they want.
think of each table being a house….. except the server only gets 2.13-3.00 an hour. that money is there “side work” money….. they get paid that to roll silverware….. sweep…… and organize.
but each table pays them or should for getting there food (yes some servers are not the ones bringing you your food…. often you will get another server….) you pay the server based on your expectations for them. and each table like each house is different. the server has to treat each on different.
I hope this makes since.
base pay- 2.13-3.00
each table pays different. based on expectations.
you do pay the server to give you SERVICE. not to do handy work.
Rule of thumb forget the whole 15% to 20% crap…. start with 3 bucks….. leave that EVEN if crappy job…… (explain later) or add to it based on a good job.
so alot of servers put on a fake smile and attitude just to wait on you…. but some will breakdown….. your 3 dollars might actually help them get out of that fussy mussy stage….. and another table might be treated better….. yah you can say its not fair….but then again what is fair?
and if you dont have enough money to tip YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH TO EAT!!!!!!!!!
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i really hate that if you can’t tip the waitress you don’t have enogh money to eat out. same could be said about housekeepers . if you can speand $135 a night you can leave $1-$2. i think .i can’t wait for my hotel to go to $7.25 an hour. oh well must wait july ,2009, were at $7.oo an hour now
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I do tech support for a large software company. It is my job to ensure I give good service to the customer so that they will continue to buy our products. Do I expect a tip when I give exceptional service? No. I knew this going into the job. I understood there would be people who would call up and blame me for the fact they can’t read a manual as well as those that would blame me for the programmers mistakes. Its part of the job.
To the servers who complain about the lack of tips and expect it, did you not understand that some people will tip very well, some poorly and some not at all?
If it was a new industry I could understand the surprise, but serving is centuries old. While I was growing up the standard for great service was 10% of the bill. It was only later when I got out of high school in the 70′s that it went from 10 to 15 to 20%.
Understand that in your industry some will tip well other will not and some do not believe in it at all. Thats the nature of the job, like it or not. Do I tip well, yes if the service warrants it, do I tip badly, yes again if the service warrants it.
I work hard for my money and if you work hard for me by giving me good service, I will share a small portion of it with you. What you are paid is between you and your employer not between you and I. If you do not like the wage, like myself, you are free to try another employer in the same or different industry.
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Does anyone know the proper rate for tipping a dive guide?
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im shocked oh how many of you on here actually think its OKAY to treat some one like crap just because you think their job is meaningless. well its not. im sorry but no I have not worked in the business for YEARS…and quite frankly I dont plan to. BUT I do know that all servers will give you GREAT service the first time…. but it is not their fault if you are having a god damn awful day. if you treat us like shit…then except to be treated like shit the next time you walk in… or you better be proving us wrong.
Treat others as you want to be treated… do we really have to go back to the 1st grade here?
I dont think ive ever heard of people that have ruder than all of you.
and dont give me that my server didnt bring me my coke and they werent even busy crap…. excuse me…. some times your server is in the RESTROOM….. talking to a manager….. we are HUMAN! just wait.
yes we all have our “BAD” experiences… but it does not intitle you to treat every server since forth as scum.
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I don’t know if this has been posted in the thread already (sorry if it has), but another tradesperson that you are expected to tip…
Tattooers. A lot of first time clients have no idea that they are supposed to tip, but it is expected. However, even according to the tattooers I’ve asked about there isn’t a clear sense of what is expected. I usually tip about 20% of the total cost of the session.
Generally, I like to tip well for the services that I receive frequently. I also like to make sure that I compliment good service or speak to the manager in the case of bad service.
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Those who leave no tip at all will now end up on TipStiffers.com. This is a good breakdown of tips per job thanks for posting this!
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A lot of the comments here really make waiters just look like beggars using emotional manipulation to take as much money as they can.
Do you actually want appreciation, or do you just want money? Stop confusing the two. I don’t have a lot of money and even if I did I would rather be frugal, it doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the small gestures.
I show my appreciation by showing appreciation and being nice, not by paying people. Should I pay the stranger that held the door open for me when they entered the building first?
If that were the case, I would be able to afford to tip you a lot more.
If you say I shouldn’t be eating out because I don’t want to tip a lot, then I won’t. I hope you enjoy the empty table more, maybe you’ll get some old lady you can guilt trip into dropping a $50.
(Sorry in advance to those which this may not apply, I’m sure it doesn’t apply to everyone.)
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I am a server when working. I have been sense I was 8. I don’t ask for you to tip a lot just enough for us to live and pay taxes and the others we tip. As for what started me on here is when working at a casino and giving free drinks to our guests please tip at least a dollar. We walk around with a full tray to bring you drinks and the least you can do is give us a dollar.
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Kaero
I agree that some of the comments on here are inapropriate. We are not beggers by any means.
Every server I know got into the business because of the tips. None of them would be serving you if all they got was a polite thank you. It may not be right, but that’s the way it is. We work for the low wage because of the tips. That’s the way the industry works and that’s all there is to it. It’s not something you can compare to some one opening a door for you. That’s rediculous. This how we make our money to live (please don’t judge me because of that).I’m not trying to re-hash our conversation about how our employers should pay us more (it’s been more than over done here).
It may sound horrible, but it would be a very rare case that a compliment will be more appreciated than a tip to a server. Believe me when I say this….One of the worst things to MOST servers is to be told how great the service is and then find no tip or a bad tip on the table. It feels like a slap in the face.
I quite honestly feel appreciated by a big tip. It makes me feel like I did my job well and satisfied my guests. In the industry that is the proper way to communicate that a server did a good job. I don’t care if you don’t believe me, but I’ve been in the business for 20 years.
It may seem wierd to someone outside of the industry and I can understand that. I would never question proper etiquette in someone else’s line of work.
Like I’ve said before in this thread, if people didn’t tip, you wouldn’t have the same type of people serving you. Think about that. What type of people would be serving you for $3.00 an hour.
But really, I wouldn’t want you as my table if all I got was a compliment. I would rather fill my table with someone who appreciates me enough to leave me a little extra for my hard work.
By tipping, you are keeping the type of people you want to have serving you within the industry. If you want let let others do it for you (without you tipping yourself)that’s your business. We just accept that those type of people are out there.
Let me say one more thing to everyone…..Can you imagine how annoying it is to hear so many people talk like they know about your line of work and have never actually worked the job. How would you feel if I started telling you how things should be in your industry and you knew I didn’t know a thing about it. You would probably laugh at me an think I was an idiot. (-:
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Try explaining to your server that you would rather tell them how much you appretiate them instead of leaving a tip. They may say that’s ok, but read the body language and the face. You’ll see that it’s not ok. We can’t tell you that though because it’s not the professional thing to do and we could loose our jobs.
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I have an idea??? you ready???
all of you who dont tip….
EAT AT HOME.
that way you can COOK your own food…. to your specifications…and you know how much it will cost….. and you wont have to tip anyone.
seriously…. its not that big of an issue to complain over.
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Wow,
I read this article and most of the comments because I always have trouble tipping when I’m in the US.
I was born and still live in Australia and we don’t do too much tipping. Mostly at restaurants or bars but only if the service is exceptional or they do something special like candles on a dessert for a birthday, at our request.
But then I have friends who still work at restaurants or cafes and bars and I know they get paid almost as much as I do doing data entry for a small business. And that is before tips!
Some of them that work in areas with high tourist traffic, such as Sydney, can almost earn their wage again in tips if they’re good.
It all makes me glad we live in a country where most people get paid (mostly) what they’re worth and tips are still something special and not expected.
What I cant figure out is why a meal in the US (once you factor in the currency exchange) costs about as much as a meal here. Then you add the tax on after (here its included) and then I have to tip too!
The maths on that just doesn’t add up and I wonder if there are very rich owners of restaurants making huge profits at the expense of workers?
Like I said I only visit once the US a year but this is something that has always bugged me!
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wow… its a few dollars…. servers can not help that they are only paid 2.13 or so an hour…. cause trust me some servers are better than others. thats why they dont pay them all one big lump some. if they did…. they would pay some min wage and others 10 bucks or more an hour.
quit complaining.
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To Kathryn:
Stand back take a deep breath then type. You are making us look bad again. By being so negative.
Wendy:
I wish are restaurants could be as nice as yours, but here yes a lot of people can be money grubbing people, and other than that we have a lot of insurances to pay out of pocket(as a owner) rent on the building etc… Mostly its the taxes and well insurance to as being a business owner that makes us not make to much profit. The first two years a restaurant is open is the make it and break it period. In the middle of the 2nd most people will finally be making profit if not then it’s a good time to start packing things up. I hope this kind of clarify
things up for you. Not sure what your wages are but our federal is $6.55 and the states range from this to $2.68 to $8.00 an hour. But some states have a food server wage law where the employer deducts your tips from your hourly so you are only making that 2.68 an hour more or less depends on how good of a server you are. Your paychecks are 0 because you payed the tax’s with your hourly then at the end of the year you still owe tax’s off of some of the tips. Any way’s that’s how things are ran here we are taxed to death. And tips end up to be our lively hood.
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No one has ever presented me with a logical argument for a patron accepting the obligation of subsidizing the employees of the establishments which they already patronize. In a highly competitve capitlistic society, there is not a business operating efficiently that isnt doing everything possible to attract customers from competitors. People have a choice of where to spend their money for almost any goods or services in this country. The obligation of tipping an employee who is adding value to a company that I am already paying for goods and services borders on moronic. I would rather have the opportunity to access which businesses implemented the reasonable compensation of employees in their prices. A sliding scale of paying a percentage for absolutely no reason is stupid. If I go toa restuarant and pay for my meal, the service is supposed to the part of it. Otherwise, I can go to a buffet and pay alot less. No one can explain why certain service employees are expected to be tipped and others – with even lower salaries – do not.
I dont tip for anything that is part of the goods or services that I pay for. I will tip for extra services only.
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“The obligation of tipping an employee who is adding value to a company that I am already paying for goods and services borders on moronic.”
Spoken like a person who has truly never worked in the industry.
It’s not really moronic. It’s just the way it is. Like I’ve said before. I would gladly work as a server for $20-$25/hr and no tips (and I mean that). That is just not going to happen in this part of the world. Sure it would be nice but it’s a dream.
I understand that when you walk into an establishment that you expect the service to be included as part of the meal. That does make sense. What I am saying, is that for the wage that we get paid, most of us servers wouldn’t be doing this job. You wouldn’t find the same level of professionalism if we didn’t get tips. You might then find that you would prefer to go to a buffet and serve yourself.
Again, as a server you just except that the odd person doesn’t tip. That’s your choice.
I’m just explaining the way it is here in North America.
Let’s also realise that this type of blog will naturally attract alot of non tippers. Probably one of the reasons why there are so many here against it.
Katherine please think before say things. You really are making us look bad.
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to mara.
im making yall look bad??? do what??? my bad…
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Okay Kathryn,try to think before you say. And I’m not the only one saying your out spoken ways is making us servers look bad. Yes we do survive on tips yes I have asked people to tip with good or bad service, but with bad service please do us the favor and tip at least 10% so we can cover taxes and tipping our busser, barback, and bartender and on occasion expediter and food runner. But you you are a to go person who gets paid above minimum wage yes work in our industry but every remark you say is so negative and makes us servers look like money grabbing idiots.
Thats all I can say right now
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I understand and sympathise with those who say restaurants should pay their staff a living wage (or at least minimum wage, which $2.35 is nowhere near), but the fact is that, right now, in the US, they don’t. They pay “tipped minimum wage” and most paychecks for servers are $0. They live off tips. That’s, unfortunately, the way it is right now. Do with that what you will.
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I understand that is how it is right now. Is that the way it should be though?
I think some here are forgetting that when you get a tip, it’s costing somebody else money. It’s not just about what you receive, it doesn’t come from nowhere. We have to find that money someplace also.
Maybe it would help if people knew exactly what servers in general (or even the specific ones being tipped) actually do/did. Honestly you can’t expect everyone to take a job in that area to learn it though.
My impression is that servers are asking for a lot of money for some relatively simple tasks. I would gladly bring my own food to the table for $20, for example.
Yes, I will freely admit I don’t know this industry, but this industry is still asking for my money. So I don’t feel that it’s none of my business or that my opinion doesn’t matter.
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lets put it this way….
7 out of 10 tables are more than likely going to complain about something 4 of those 7 will just complain to the server and a few of them will just be slightly upset…. the other 3 will want to speak with a manager and tell that person of the worst job ever said server has done. you try doing that just about every night. You try bending over backwards for people…I get when you walk into a restaurant you dont realize that server has more people to tend to than just you. just wait. If your food is taking forever its the cooks… but your server SHOULD tell you it might take longer….. but some wont some do get that busy. Honestly screw the percentage tip shit….. tip what you think is right. but trust me the more you work a server the bigger tip they except. I would.
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Is it just I, or are other people noticing those who wail the loudest for tips also can’t spell or control their tongues?
Also to be noticed is the requested $25/hr if tipping were not promoted.
I agree $2.35 is way too low. So is $6.35. But $25/hour? As a self-employed person, I wish to God I had always earned at least $20/hour. I would be retired, and not spending this much time at my desk and on the Internet!
Waitstaff without tips are worth about $15/hour before going out of your way and doing something extraordinary.
Most of the world doesn’t get tipped when putting up with pissy-ant whiners likes a couple of you.
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That’s horrendous to see that staff are being paid between $3 and $6 an hour. I’m in Australia and although not a waiter, I think most would be on somewhere between $15 and $20 an hour and probably get shift allowances and weekend penalty rates.I work in a casino and we are by law prohibited from taking tips of any sort, although we get roughly between $20 and $50 and hour depending on the day of the week and if its a holiday. I know in my department (Table Games)if we could take tips we would certainly be a lot friendlier and not be such a miserable bunch of employees! It gets upsetting to see bar staff make more than us sometimes due to their tips.
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hmm lets see most servers work 5 til 10… yes a few work until close
so thats 5 hours and a server a good one after tip outs are done will prob pocket around 80 bucks or so… ( not alot but im basing this on a non busy night)
well when you do the math it comes out to be
around $16 an hour…. so hence forth yes it is worth to pay servers more than min…
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I just wanted to add a couple of points.
Mara #240 wrote: “lets say us servers did get paid what we are worth or close, lets say $25 an hr.”
I’m sorry, but there is no way in hell that a simple waiter/waitress deserves $25/hr. That’s absolutely insane. I don’t care how tough you THINK your job is, it’s not THAT tough. $25 is professional salary. Get over yourselves.
Mara #220 also wrote: “We are servers not SERVENTS [sic]!”
Mara, they’re the same thing. So you can drop that meaningless tidbit of rhetoric. The words are interchangeable. And I believe it’s “servant,” not “servent.”
Regarding the assertion that if the serving staff’s wages had to be paid a fair wage, food prices would skyrocket: Of course they’d go up a little. But would they go up any higher than the price of food + tip already totals? No. Especially not if wait staff are already making $20-$25/hr when tips are factored in. If anything, your overall evening experience would be *cheaper*. Sure, the steak special might be $22 instead of $18, but $18 + $5 tip is more than $22 with no expectation of tipping.
I understand that in the US, minimum wage for wait staff is below the “regular” minimum wage. That’s regrettable. But that’s a problem between the staff and the management. Why drag the customers into it? If your boss is not paying you a fair wage, YOU QUIT. Or unionize and extort it out of them, like the manufacturing industry did (which is precisely why all the manufacturing jobs left the country and are now in China – good job, unions!)
Also, no one seems to have mentioned that in many places (maybe it’s just a Canadian thing?), tips are shared with the kitchen staff. So yes, it may be unfair to punish the waitress by stiffing her her tip for a mistake that’s the kitchen’s fault, but if you tip her generously, then the kitchen staff will still get a share of it, even though they may have screwed up your meal.
To all the people who say you should tip generously because if you become known as a skinflint, the service you receive will drop in quality. To that I say: Are you aware what website you’re reading??? Being a “regular” at a restaurant is NOT conducive to “Getting Rich Slowly.” One of the most basic practices preached repeatedly on this site for living frugally is to not eat out, except on special occasions. If you’re going out to restaurants so frequently that the wait staff recognize you, your problem isn’t figuring out how much to tip – it’s scaling back your lavish lifestyle.
My wife and I eat out at a fancy sit-down restaurant maybe once a MONTH. And it’s rarely the same place two months in a row (eating out so infrequently, we want to experience new places, rather than the same place over and over). By the time we return to a restaurant we’d already been to, several months have elapsed. Surely wait staff’s memories aren’t THAT long, are they? Besides, wait staff have a relatively high turnover. By the time I return, it could be a completely new team of servants (that’s right, Mara, I said servants).
That said, when we *do* go out, we tip fairly. Although, since we’re in Canada and wait staff get at least minimum wage, “fairly” means 10-15%, not 20%. I consider it part of the cost of going out. It’s one of the reasons we eat out so rarely (waste of money).
Finally, to Tony #95: As others have pointed out, if you go to a nice restaurant, you should be prepared to include a 20% tip in your budget. If you can only just barely afford the food with nothing left over for the tip, then no, you DON’T deserve to go there. That’s not being a “supercilious snot,” that’s being realistic. What if you do take your wife there for your anniversary, but you don’t budget anything for a tip. The waiter overhears it’s your anniversary and goes out of his way to make it a really special night for you. Then what – you screw him on the tip? Come on, have some common decency.
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Kevin: just to clarify….. The def. for SERVANT can be found here: http://www.answers.com/topic/servant
Here is the def. for SERVER is here: http://www.answers.com/topic/server
We are SERVERS not servants.
You don’t get to decide that these are the same terms, just because you think they should be. You also don’t get to decide how tough a job is and what a professional job should or should not be.
Kevin please phone my boss or any other restaurant and explain you theory of how food would be cheaper if servers got paid more. Maybe they’ll change policies. L
I disagree with you about the lower prices anyways. It’s just not true. Not when you have to pay 18 servers during peak periods that kind of wage.
You tip %10 -%15 percent. Perfect. I can’t argue with that. I would serve you and give you great service.
I also agree that website will attract more frugal people. I said that on my last post. It’s not the right place for this conversation.
Kaero: I really wish I had the time or the desire to tell you everything a server has to do and the kind of stress that they experience on a daily basis, but just don’t.
Thank you for at least admitting that you don’t know the indusrty that well.
Some of these others talk like they know it inside and out. They are so smart they can just decide what a server is worth and they just magiacally know how un-complicated the job is. They even get to make up they’re own definitions and decide what a professional is. To these people it seems servers have no talent and that anyone can do the job.
These people are so wrong and to be frank, it seems quite arrogant too.
Please people don’t just think you know how easy the job is or try to say what we are worth when you only eat out once a month (if that). We are in this industry everyday. Like I said before. I would never decide that your job was easy or that you didn’t deserve what you get paid. Stop be-littling people.
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point blank YOU have the CHOICE to tip…but all us servers are saying is dont stop tipping cause you had a bad experience. thats all.
its your choice its in your hand. we have told you why we think you should and there you have it. stop whining.
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Kevin,
I would like to know which kind of “servant” you are to humanity or to yourself or whomever you may serve. Maybe she printed it wrong but what she meant to write would be we are not your “slave” we are you server for an hour or so. We are not someone you should talk down to or not pay or whip into submission. We are human beings working for a living just like you. The difference would be that a restaurant is there to serve people who are hungry and want to relax and not have to prepare their own meal. So not only are we supposed to provide food the way you want it at close to the same price you would pay for it at a grocery store then still have to prepare it and serve it, we are providing a service to allow you to relax and enjoy your experience. If you think what it would cost to buy every ingredient to all of the different meals your table orders it would be pretty costly, and to top your food is prepared and served to you as well as your drinks and desserts. Not to mention you do not have to do dishes before or after, run to the grocery liquor or wine store, or clean up any part of your house to enjoy a meal out with your friends. You make yourself sound so self important and self centered it doesn’t surprise me that you have never worked in a food service business before. You would never make it! I only hope people do not comment on your job the way you have negatively commented on a servers/bartenders job here, unless you have ever done it and succeeded at it you have no idea what you are talking about.
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@MZ: Relax. All I said was that the definitions of “server” and “servant” are identical. See for yourself:
(http://www.m-w.com)
Server – “one that serves food or drink”
Servant – “one that serves others”
One is specific to food, but they’re both about “serving” people. Calm down – I didn’t write the dictionary.
As for the cost element of your argument, of course it would be much, much cheaper for me to buy the food and liquor myself, and prepare it. Food is one of the cheapest costs for restaurants, and liquor is their highest-margin product. Staff and overhead are a restaurant’s biggest expenses.
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What about the dealer at a Casino? This seems to be a job neglected on every tip list. Obviously outside of Vegas there’s only local Native American casinos [though everywhere these days] and we’re not a place people normally frequent but we’re still there and we still rely on tips. Our casino is one of few were we [the dealer] gets to keep our own tips and our check depends on how good we are to the customer and how good they are to us.
My check is my tips. I get paid $5.45 an hour and like many other jobs rely on tips to carry my less than minimum wage, part time job into an income I can live off. Even then lately it seems like I can’t even make a reasonable check as of late. But my entire check normally consists of tips alone while my crappy hourly wage covers taxes. What I receive in tips is what I get to pay for living expenses and bills…
Most dealers are there to make people and themselves money, not the house. At least 99% of them I work for and have met at other casinos. Personally I love it when players are winning and especially so when I’m receiving a portion of the winnings. Nothing irks me more than giving away $500, 1k, 2k even $10k and not even getting as much as a nickel [$5] or even a thank you. As was the case once when I gave away just over $10k on Let it Ride where the guy turns to his brother in law, gives him $2k, and gives me nothing despite his boasting of being a very good tipper and that I’d be paid considerably if I gave him a good hand… Anyway a happy and tipped dealer normally makes for more good cards and continued winnings. More often than not when I’m happy the cards are happy. When I’m mad the cards are mad. Granted that’s not always the case but in my honest opinion a dealers mood does have a lot of influence over the cards quite often.
Often it’s even just the thought that counts. If a player tries to at least tip me a dollar, or a five [which the house matches if they win the hand] that makes me happy knowing that the actually care and tried. Obviously it frustrates me not winning it but it at least shows me they’re considerate and that they’re trying to help make my ends meet. And unlike many other dealers I’m always sure to say “thank you” after receiving a tip or even when a tip is played regardless of it winning or losing. Which I’ve heard customer time and time again thank me for doing and letting them know that I appreciate it each and every time no matter the amount…
anyway, so what about Casino Dealers? We rely on tips…
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Kevin…I don’t know what state you live in but here in Washington we have very high food and liquor cost compared to most other states. Of course what I pay out to my staff is more than the food cost because I pay All of them over $8.75 an hour. My food and liquor cost is now an even bigger cost due to high gas prices, crop shortages, and beef prices that are crazy over here. I think it would be pointless to continue this conversation with any one as ignorant as yourself anyways, so I will stop before I confuse you about the cost for running a restaurant/bar.
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MZ said, “I don’t know what state you live in”.
As I said in #330, I live in Canada.
MZ said, “Of course what I pay out to my staff is more than the food cost”
So then you agree with me. Why are you arguing with me then?
MZ said, “My food and liquor cost is now an even bigger cost due to high gas prices,”
OK, so what? That doesn’t change the fact that it’s still the cheapest part of running a restaurant, and it’s still cheaper for people to buy and cook their own food than to go out to a restaurant (the prices in the grocery stores have gone up too, obviously). So I’m really not sure what it is you’re trying to say here. We agree that staffing costs are a large cost of running a restaurant, and the food itself is one of the cheaper expenses for the owner. So how is it that I’m “ignorant” about the “cost of running a restaurant bar,” when you’ve agreed with everything I’ve said?
I suspect maybe you just don’t like that I called one of your own out for their ridiculous assertion that a “fair wage” for wait staff is $25/hr.
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Kevin, I lived and worked in Seattle it’s hard to survive on $8.75 a hr a lone,(thank you MZ for paying your servers over min. wage) that’s why servers work for tips. MZ did not want to go through a brake down of all cost to you. So read my comment #248. He is not agreeing with you, well kind of the food cost vs. labor yes.
And I still stick with a fair hourly wage for a server is about $25 a hour. Oh as a server our employer usually does not have a benefit program so we servers pay for our health care,vision and dental which is a huge cost.
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Mara, before I go further, I’ll again repeat that when I do go out, I tip fairly. I simply try to avoid going out often.
That said, I can’t believe I’m actually still arguing the wage issue, as the idea that a simple waiter/waitress should earn $25/hr is just so incredibly ridiculous, that it boggles my mind that anyone could seriously believe it’s reasonable.
So you don’t have a benefit program, and you have to pay your own health, vision, dental, pension, whatever. BOO HOO. I have a university degree, I work in an office, and *I* don’t have vision or a pension either. Welcome to the “new economy.” Pensions and benefits went out the door way back in the 90′s – where have you been? A lack of benefits isn’t some kind of hardship unique to waiters and waitresses – it’s just the way all businesses work now.
Now, on the wage issue. I simply have to know – if you think waiters and waitresses deserve $25 (400% above minimum wage!), then just who in the heck do you think DESERVES minimum wage? If not the unskilled, uneducated teenagers carrying food from a counter to a table, then who? Who deserves this low-end baseline pay scale, if not someone doing a job that can be learned in a matter of hours?
What makes you think an 18-year old bubble-gum chewing high schooler, who required just a few minutes of training and a few hours of practice, deserves to earn the same wage as someone who spends 4 YEARS and tens of thousands of dollars earning a real education?
Maybe you just think EVERYBODY should be paid at least $25/hr, because gee, wouldn’t it be nice if everybody could be rich? It’s only fair, I suppose.
“Inflation?” What’s that?
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As said many times before serving is not a easy job, not a few hour training and there your done. Most places if you have no prior experience you start out as a host or busser, which can be stressful at times to. Then you go through a 4 day to 7 day training on how to be a server. And you know what it’s a skill to be a server not all people can handle it.
And people who should be paid min. wage I would say yes us servers because we get tips so I would say any where where tips make most of your income then you should be paid min. wage. Why I say we should be paid $25 an hour is when we do not receive tips any more. That is where this all came from was from people saying we should not be tipped. Well if we don’t get tipped then we need to be payed more hourly to cover for the loss.
Yes I know most company’s have cut back on benefits, our biggest cost still is medical.
Just saying. Your comment on “real education” It can be from job experience too, or and life experience. So good for you you are a college graduate. College is not for all people. And some people are still trying to figure out what they want to study. So do not put us down and act like you are low trained idiots. Who don’t work hard and don’t have a challenging career.
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Mara, I think the problem I’m having with your comments is that you’re saying the job is “not easy,” and it’s “stressful.”
What I’m trying to say is: So what? ALL jobs are stressful sometimes – especially the ones that pay $20 /hr.
People who dedicate 4 years of their life, and tens of thousands of dollars, have earned the right to be paid a higher wage. Their jobs are still stressful sometimes, and are definitely not “easy,” and they don’t get benefits either. So I guess what I’m saying is, what makes you think a server’s job should pay just as well, when the stress level is the same, but it can be learned much more quickly than a “professional” job. I mean, come on – are you seriously trying to compare a 4 year university education with a few hours of training, and saying they’re both “hard” and deserve the same pay?
That’s why I gave you such a hard time for that comment. If people could save the $80,000 and 4 years and skip college and STILL make $25/hr, then everybody would do it!
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I HATE what tipping has become in this society!! Tipping should be a bonus for doing above and beyond on a job. The reason we tip our wait staff is because they do not make a living wage! that should be changed.
I recently went out to dinner with a large party. The tip was included on the bill, we weren’t even allowed to think about it. That is just wrong in my mind. If you are REQUIRED to pay a tip, then it should be included in the price of the item!!! Almost amounts to false advertising if you say a meal is $40, but oh wait, you have to tip the guy who sat you down, and tip the guy who took your order, then tip the guy who brought you the meal, heck, don’t forget to tip the guy who is picking up your dishes – ridiculous!
I find it annoying and almost insulting to see the tip line on my charge slip for services. again, these people should be making a wage that compensates them for the services they provide. If I think they did an amazing job, I tip.
And what really gets me is the number of services that feel entitled to insist upon a tip. as if we should pay them for interacting with us.. um.. *isn’t that your job!!*
Now again, I know that wait staff are paid very little, but I know that housekeepers in hotels are paid a living wage. (ok, so not a good living wage, but it is more than $2.00 an hour!)
I think it should be the norm that service workers (and yes, I am work in customer service!) should be paid for the job they do by the company they work for (and lets not forget earn money for), and not pass that expense and burden on to the consumer!
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TO # 57 Believing tipping is ever mandatory sucks just as much as buying obglitory Christmas gifts. Just don’t do it, no matter to whom. Would you want to recieve any gift from someone who only gave it to you because they felt they had to? Not me.
A tip is a gift. You should *never* give unless you are moved to reward someone for exceptional service, kindness, or anything else they do beyond their job description. Do not box yourself into preconceived notions of who you should or should not tip, or how much. This does not mean to be stingy. Give often and generously to anyone you like. I have tipped over 100% of the bill on rare occasions, but I also have no qualms whatsoever about leaving nothing at all.
Do not allow yourself to regard your tip as part of the expected compensation for any type of service. When a tip *is* required, it is automatically generated and added to the bill anyway (”15% gratuity added for parties of six or more”).
To #57 I think that is a load of Crap. Not all places add gratuity to the bill and still pay the wait staff less then min-wage im sorry i dont think any one should be paid min wage or less they should be paid more Min-wage was not set up to be a base pay for labor but as a guide line for employers No One can live off min wage by them selves.
As for your idea on tipping you should tip at least the standard amount. wait staff get paid 2.15 an hour where i live and ive heard of some that where paid less and that will not suffice for living at all. You don’t know how much any one makes and you cant assume that they make at least mi-wage. they provide a service and tipping pays for that service.
also i have not seen any comments on parking shuttle drivers. it should be $1 to $2 per bag more if they are heavy if they help you with them. and you should never expect them to haul all bags on and off the bus and just say thank you. also $1 to $2 if no help was required. again you don’t know how much they make so don’t just assume they make enough.
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#342-Connie
I understand the frustration of being told you have to tip a preset percentage. I often go out to eat with my family (5-12 people). Yes it is very irritating to see that extra charge at the foot of the bill.
That said, I am a waitress at a family restaurant. I have been there for over 2 years, and daily get compliments (from guests and management) on my attentive service. My wage is 4.35/hour. I generally make $13-22/hour in tips.
Still, I have countless stories of large groups that leave pitiful tips on large bills. Most recently I had a group of 9 whose total was over 120.00 that left 4.25 on the table. 3.5%
Another recent story is of the 35 person baseball team that called 2 weeks ahead to say they would be there. We called in 2 extra waitresses to handle the party. Every person ordered a meal and drink. The bill was more than $500 The coach paid for the whole ticket, and there was no tip. Not one dollar.
The reason a tip is included in the bill for large parties is that groups are more work for the waitstaff. They require more attention, take up more space, and stay longer.
If I ever had a problem with the amount on the tip line, I would talk to the management about problems during the meal.
I have never done that, but always tipped EXTRA, because I know how difficult it is to serve large parties.
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“I live in Australia where tipping is a rarity and only done if the service warrants it. I’m not going to tip someone because they carried a plate of food from a kitchen to a table.
In my opinion you get paid to do your job by your employer. Why should I pay you extra to do the job that you’re already being paid for. If you’re not getting enough from your employeer then talk to them about it. Don’t get annoyed with me because your employeer doesn’t value your abilities enough to pay you properly”.
Here’s what you’re not considering.
Did you know that you pay almost 40% MORE for a meal at Outback there in Australia as you do in the US? Where do you think the difference comes from? A portion of it MIGHT be from the exchange rate (the lower value of the US dollar), but most of it comes from the fact that Australian servers make most of their wage from “salary”. In the States, it’s the opposite – US servers make most of their wages from tips. In fact, due to tax withholding, most of us don’t even get a paycheck; we make ALL of our disposable income from tips. Basically, what’s happening is that the charge for service is separate from the menu price. It’s not better or worse, it’s just different. There is no “moral imperative” or even “economic imperative” that requires the company to pay all of the wages for its employees – many occupations are paid “separately”, like salespeople or independent contractors. In fact, in the States, and I suspect in Australia, most car salespeople don’t get ANY “salary” from the company – the company pays them through a pass-through commission paid directly by the consumer (bonuses are a different matter – they are paid directly from the company’s funds).
Is either system better than the other? I’m not sure. However, here in the States, we at least have a say in the recompense of the service that we receive (and the commissio…ooops, I mean tip is at least transparent).
You’re going to pay that same extra 38% regardless of the level of service. We at least can reward great service or penalize bad service using our own judgment, plus, it costs less for us to dine out than it does in Australia, even when you factor in the tip.
It’s fine for you to not tip in Australia, but when you come to the States and tip your 5 – 10% as most Australian tourists do, you are exploiting the local labor for your own financial gain. Is it really worth it for you to save the money for your Statue of Liberty paperweight on the back of your food server? I think not.
PS, don’t believe me about the diff between Australian and US dining? Just compare the average prices on an Outback menu from Australia and the US. That’s an easy way to compare menu prices here and there and is very much typical of how much extra you have to pay for the “privilege” of the company paying the full wage.
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“A tip is a gift. You should *never* give unless you are moved to reward someone for exceptional service, kindness, or anything else they do beyond their job description. Do not box yourself into preconceived notions of who you should or should not tip, or how much. This does not mean to be stingy. Give often and generously to anyone you like. I have tipped over 100% of the bill on rare occasions, but I also have no qualms whatsoever about leaving nothing at all”.
You are wrong about the tip being a “gift”. A tip is a payment for services rendered. A gift is non-taxable up to $11,000 per person per year. IOW, I could walk up to you today and give you $10,999 for no apparent reason and you don’t have to declare it as income. However, you tip me a buck on a $5 meal and that tip is taxable.
So the gift argument is fallacious. Here’s the definition of a gift (Mirriam-Webster):
“something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation”
The payment of a tip is compensation for the service that you receive. You haven’t just randomly given your server money for nothing.
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“They don’t base the taxes on your tips at all. They base it on the food you sell. All food tickets are entered into the computer and they know how much you sell”.
If your restaurant is basing your taxable income on sales, then they are WRONG. The only thing that’s technically taxable is the amount of tips that you declare plus your hourly wage. Most restaurants require you to declare the amount of post tipout tips that you receive (i.e. what you leave the restaurant with in your pocket at the end of the night). The IRS doesn’t care how much you sold that night, they care about how much money you actually made. In fact, they frown on such “estimations”. They want firm numbers. If your restaurant is doing it right, you won’t be taxed on a table that stiffs you. If the restaurant is cutting corners on this, I’d be very worried because, if the IRS audits the restaurant by looking at credit card receipts and daily reports and they have only claimed 8% of sales for you, you’re going to end up owing a lot of money unless you only walk with 8% of your sales, which would make you a pretty bad server.
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“Here’s a question that will surely rile up folks. FWIW, I tip 20% for food service almost without exception.
Let’s say you and 3 other people go out to dinner. Your total bill comes to $300. There were no problems and your service was “normal”. Your average dinner for 4. No special drinks. No extended stay at the table, chatting.
20% would be $60.
Are you actually going to pay your waiter/waitress a $60/hr salary just for YOUR table?
I sure as hell don’t, and never will. I believe there is a “percentage method cutoff point.”
Well, there’s no justification for a “percentage method cutoff point”. We don’t say that you should tip less for a lobster than you do for a hamburger. When you go into a restaurant, you know what the standard is. It’s not defensible for you to rewrite the rules simply because you want to splurge on a $75 per head dinner. You know ahead of time what the standard is. If you don’t want to tip your server $60 for waiting on you, then you should go to a restaurant where you only have to leave them $20 for a cheaper meal for 4. Don’t forget that that server working in that pricey restaurant won’t be waiting on nearly as many people as the server in the $20 a head restaurant. You are paying them $60 on the basis that your table won’t be flipped 3 times (you’re probably going to be with them for 2 – 3 hours) and that, presumably, you’re paying for more experience and savvy (yes, I know this doesn’t always translate into better service and when it doesn’t, then you DON’T leave the $60, you leave less – that’s the joy of the tipping system). Your one table is a muchhigher percentage of the server’s take for the night. You screw them for an arbitrary cut-off number and you’re not doing the right thing, regardless of whether you do the right thing in other situations. It’s as simple as that.
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“No kidding: I’m supposed to feel sorry for people who end up making 20 and hour and have to pay taxes on half that? I’ve bested my ass a lot harder than waiting tables for a lot less than that. And I had to pay tax on all of it”.
Just so you know, these days, with credit card tips being about 95% of the tips we receive, it’s pretty much impossible to not claim half of your tips. Maybe in the old days, when most people paid cash, it was possible. But not these days.
“I’ll tip what’s appropriate if the server does a good job. But how dare servers act like I’m responsible for subsidising their choices”?
How dare YOU think that *I* should subsidize YOUR meal.
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“This government site lists the minimum hourly wages for tipped employees, by state. This gives some perspective the issue of how much to tip. While the minimum wage for tipped employees is certainly low in many states, in my state of Washington, it appears that servers make the full minimum wage of $7.63 (the highest minimum wage in the country).
So does this mean that servers with a larger hourly wage (as in Washington) should be tipped less than those whose wage is just a couple bucks an hour?
Nope, because the higher minimum wage in Washington State is to compensate for the higher cost of living there. For me to make the same $40k in Seattle that I make in my 2.13 an hour community (also the largest city in my state), I’d have to make over $70k (yes, I’ve run the numbers through some cost-of-living calculators). And guess what? The extra hourly wage doesn’t even make up the difference. The extra 10% that your citizens pay in menu prices in order to fund the $8 an hour menu prices (yes, Dear Friends, the money has to come from somewhere), probably helps bring it up to rough parity when you factor in the additional tips that this presumably generates.
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