Follow-Up on Casey Serin, the Man Who Would Be Rich
Published on - October 25th, 2006 (by J.D. Roth) Last Friday I wrote about Casey Serin, the young man who is deep in debt because of risky real-estate investments. He’s blogging about his predicament at iamfacingforeclosure.com. Casey stopped by Get Rich Slowly yesterday and had this to say:
I don’t see why a person CANNOT get rich quick… but still do it in an honest and safe way. Whenever you hear “Get Rich Quick” you think somethhing bad.
And yes, if you read my story, it DOES sound like i’m just a big screw-up. AND YES.. I did do some stuff that I am NOT proud of (liar loans). However, I am learning my lessons and hoping to make a comeback.
I am determined to find a way to make an honest buck in real estate in a down market. My mentor “Rich Dad” did it. It took him only about 10 years. Now he has 20K+/mo in PASSIVE income from REAL ESTATE.
Is 10 years too quick? What about 5 years?
That’s an interesting question. How quick is too quick?
It’s not impossible to get rich quickly — the day before I wrote about Casey, I shared advice on how to handle sudden wealth — but it’s dangerous to focus on quick wealth as a goal. I’m convinced that people get rich quickly by chance, not by intention. If get rich quick schemes worked, more people would do them. You’d read and hear documented tales of success. But they don’t work. They’re mostly scams designed to transfer money from saps like Casey into the hands of others.
My advice for Casey is this:
If you have a burning passion to make these sorts of plans succeed, then pursue them with only a portion of your finances. Follow tried and true personal finance wisdom with most of your money. Take 90% of what you earn, and do the boring stuff with it: pay off debt, start an emergency fund, invest for retirement. You are so young right now, that if you would invest just $5000 each year until you’re 50, you could retire then as a millionaire. (Assuming 10% returns.) This is with almost no risk. Why try to get rich all at once? Why not ride it out?
If you’re dead-set on trying to get rich quickly, then don’t use all of your capital to do so. Do the safe stuff with 90% of your money. Save the remaining 10% to make real estate purchases. If you strike it rich, great. But if you don’t, then at least you haven’t mortgaged your future. This isn’t ideal for most people, but you have the drive and desire, so it gives you something to play with. But this means that you’ll have to work in order to meet your goals.
I don’t want to kick Casey’s dreams. Dreams are good, and I think people should pursue them with gusto. Too many people make a practice of telling others why their plans won’t work instead of lending support. But when your dreams are at odds with reality, you need to re-evaluate.
GRS is committed to helping our readers save and achieve your financial goals.Savings interest rates may be low, but that’s all the more reason to shop for the best rate.Find the highest savings interest rate from Ally Bank, Capital One 360, Everbank, and more.
This article is about Odds and Ends
Disclaimer: This content is not provided or commissioned by American Express. Opinions expressed here are author's alone, not those of American Express, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by American Express. This site may be compensated through American Express Affiliate Program.
Discover is a paid advertiser of this site. Reasonable efforts are made to maintain accurate information. See the Discover online credit card application for full terms and conditions on offers and rewards.
SEARCH FOR RECENT ARTICLES
While I admire the fact that you speak out against get rich quick hucksters, I think that perhaps your disdain for them is coloring your viewpoint on whether or not it’s actually possible to get rich quickly.
Surely it can’t be completely up to chance to some people do in fact get rich rather quickly and others don’t. Are you suggesting that everyone is on equal footing and that certain people aren’t better business people or more money savvy than others?
That said, I think your 90-10 portfolio allocation is reasonable. I don’t think people should chase riches at the expense of planning for the future. That is indeed too much of a gamble.
loading....
It IS possible to get rich quick if you have a good business idea, have enough capital to get established, work your butt off, and have a bit of luck….
Trouble is, simply borrowing huge amounts of other people’s money (maybe telling some lies to get it) and buying real estate or stocks hoping that the bubble won’t burst before you get rich is simply gambling. And if it doesn’t work out the individual often will declare bankruptcy, which means it is the shareholders of the lender, and other lenders (if rates go up due to higher default rates) that end up paying part of the cost – not just the speculator.
There’s definitely a line between taking on SOME additional risk using borrowed funds to invest and greedy, irresponsible speculation. Unfortunately it often isn’t apparent where the line is until after the “deals” unravel.
Regards
http://enoughwealth.blogspot.com
loading....
I hope he doesn’t dig himself deeper into debt. I wish him the best of luck…
loading....
I’m with Steve, there are ways to get rich quick by intention. Pretty much any successful company’s founders have done it. Sure there’s some chance in it, but they made a lot of their own luck through intention.
You throw around the “assuming 10% returns” and “almost no risk” a little lightly. The plan may get you a million dollars, but that isn’t going to buy nearly as much in 50 years. If you factor in inflation, taxes, and investment fees, you’re probably looking at something below 6% returns if you want to pursue things that are “almost no risk” (I’m assuming a balance portfolio here). It gets to be 3-4% if you assume the 8% that you mentioned in the article that you referenced.
Also, it can be a tough sell to advise someone to just wait 50 years and enjoy life when their body might be physically breaking down.
Overall, I agree with your advice, it’s great. It’s a personal peeve of mine when inflation isn’t taken into account in compound interest calculations. It’s important to understand compounding interest, but it’s also important to remember to account for inflation. If you don’t, you’ll find that you might mistaking retire a little too early.
loading....
Casey’s dreams deserve some kicking. He’s over $2 million in the hole due to some very shady deals and poor decisions, and there is a very real possiblity that he will go to prison for mortgage fraud. And he’s still in complete and total denial.
He needs to wake up before he loses his freedom, his marriage, and any hope of financial solvency.
loading....
Some good comments so far. I think Ralph encapsulated my views when he wrote: It is possible to get rich quick if you have a good business idea, have enough capital to get established, work your butt off, and have a bit of luck.
@Steve — It’s not completely up to chance that some people get rich quickly, but it’s mostly up to chance. I think that in the short term, business skills and money savvy play a tiny role in things. These sorts of qualities have a greater effect on long-term success. Meteoric success, I think, is generally the result of being in the right place at the right time.
I have nothing but respect for entrepreneurs and those (like Warren Buffet) who have a proven track record of success in the financial world. But very few of these people — very few — got rich quickly. Buffet’s wealth has accrued slowly to massive proportions because he’s made smart decisions again and again. He never rushes things. He’s patient.
In my day job — as the owner of company that manufacturers boxes — I’ve seen companies come and I’ve seen companies go. Invariably it’s the business owners who are in it to get rich now who never do. They’re not around to order boxes the next year. But I’ve seen several owners who were slower, more methodical, gradually build their little businesses into cash machines.
The primary reason I’m so down on any sort of “get rich quick” scheme, whether through real estate, scam, or business, is that the odds are so stacked against folks. Yes, people do get rich quick. But the percentages are minute. On the other hand, if a person is willing to take the time to invest in real estate wisely, or to save for retirement, or to grow a business slowly and with sound financials, then success is much more likely. If the person is smart and dedicated and hard-working, it’s virtually assured.
loading....
I suspect also there’s a lot of survivorship bias — a lot of new businesses fail, but we hear only about the successful ones.
loading....
I believe Casey may well find an opportunity to become the poster child of the housing bust. Whether this is profitable remains to be seen but I’m reminded of a dot-bomb clearing house for bad news about tech companies in the early 2000s. The author took great delight in cataloging inside information about companies facing distress. His information became valuable to short sellers, headhunters and human resource departments.
As for quick riches, people get sucked into believing that their attitude will somehow bend reality to fit expectations. It is one thing for a successful investor/entrepreneur to glow with excitement — they sit upon past success. Naive investors believe they can emulate the psychological state of success but the survivors reveal a lot of hard work and an element of luck to explain their outcomes.
loading....
[Note: I haven't yet had the time to read through Mr. Serin's site, so I'm probably speaking out of my hinder on some of this.]
I am determined to find a way to make an honest buck in real estate in a down market. My mentor “Rich Dad” did it. It took him only about 10 years. Now he has 20K+/mo in PASSIVE income from REAL ESTATE.
I think there’s something Mr. Serin isn’t considering: The market isn’t static, and his “Rich Dad” probably had more than a little “right place at the right time” going for him.
If his mentor made his fortune over a ten-year timeframe, then he must have started before the housing market really took off. The run-up in housing prices over the last several years is pretty much unprecedented. I highly doubt one could have made that much money in real estate, that quickly and easily, at just any random point in American history.
The phrase, “past performance is no guarantee of future returns,” seems apt here. Historical anomalies happen, and this looks to be one of those times.
Finally, there are lots of “little” details that can differentiate Mr. Serin’s situation from his Rich Dad, including what kind of interest rates each were charged while acquiring their real estate (and indeed whether Rich Dad used debt at all), whether Rich Dad quit his “day job” as early in the process, whether the houses being “flipped” were expected to appreciate due to renovation vs. “just because,” etc.
loading....
“I am determined to find a way to make an honest buck in real estate in a down market.”
Right off the bat, I would say how about just buying *one* house with other people’s money and not *eight*.
I mean, I’m not a ‘Rich Dad’, so wtf do I know, but that seems like common sense to me. If you sell that one for a huge profit, then try another one (after paying back your debts), or another 2 even. Even at that point it still would be gambling.
loading....
Although your advice to Casey is financially sound, I believe Casey’s issues are more fundamental. Casey should ask himself, why do I want to get rich quick? Will it make me happy? For what purpose is $20k of monthly passive income? Is it just to buy stuff that will not make me happy? I dare say, Casey may want to investigate what is truly important to him in his life.
loading....
Of course for the most part people who read Get Rich Slowly are nt going to get it. It is completely possible to get rich quickly without any scams- it just takes busting your ass and learning how to do it. It takes the willingness to risk and leverage it all. It takes the willingness to fail and get up and learn from your mistakes to keep going. It takes a certain temperament that most people here don’t have. Do not make the mistake of thinking that you are somehow better, or that someone else is wrong for wanting something you don’t think is possible- just because you can’t or don’t want to do it. I am defending Casey’s goals, not saying how he started off was right, but I am bringing people to him that can help him out. I want to see him win. I want people to see that it does work and if he can mess up bad and still be asuccessful then they can do it too- minus the huge mistakes.
loading....
Yes, someone can get rich quickly through legitimate means, but one thing that Casey doesn’t appear to understand is that _he_ probably won’t be the person it happens to. And judging from what’s on his blog, the odds against him were even longer than for other people, as he was getting into markets he didn’t understand, had a cavalier attitude about risk, and had a disdain for actual work.
Even if everything were in his favor in terms of market knowledge, analysis, etc., entrepreneurship has more crashes than successes, because of, say, a bad run of luck. Casey gives the impression that, after his expensive seminars, everything should be easy for him, and his statements here just reinforce that impression. But if it were so easy, everyone would be doing it.
loading....
Again- it isn’t easy- but it can be done. he is going to make a come back because he is reaching out for help and getting it. Just watch.
loading....
He’s going to make a comeback?
If I remember rightly, Casey:
a) is underwater on all his loans
b) is not servicing his loans, putting him $20K deeper every month
c) is not servicing $100K+ in credit card debt
d) has no income, having repeatedly rejected suggestions to rent out his houses or take paid employment
e) is overwhelmed by mounting paperwork
The unpaid apprenticeship with “rich dad” is a luxury he cannot afford. And together with comments like yours, it is feeding his illusions that he can trade his way out of this mess if he just finds the right few deals.
Sorry, but the chances are he probably can’t. He believes there’s easy money out there; he spouts the lingo (“wholesaling” etc); but he’s demonstrated no aptitude whatsoever for making deals that actually make money. As the USA Today feature made clear, his cashflow was all borrowed money: a series of shady-to-fraudulent cash-back-from-seller deals.
I’ve no great desire to see him fail, but I really fail to share your optimism that he can blaze his way back to glory and wealth if he just dusts himself off and tries again.
loading....
[...] This post is actually in response to the comments found at GRS. The community at GRS is simply amazing, almost every post has a knowledgeable discussion that is worth checking out! [...]
loading....
prlinkbiz is sticking up for Casey because they have the same hero, Bob Kiyosaki.
loading....
The guys seems to be more adept at whining and complaining than he is at actually doing anything. Its almost as if he expected the properties to fix and sell themselves. I don’t know why he hasn’t found some renters for half the properties, and tried to move some of them.
I guess noone wants to touch his properties to help him out now though because he’s definitely going to start attracting the attention of the law……. screwed.
NG
loading....
He’s going to make a come back because some of us know how to come in and fix mistakes and turn problems into something positive. Among my friends I count multi millionaires who made that money solving these kind of problems, friends who made and lost and made multiple millions again, and these people are taking Casey on to help him. Keep an eye on mine and Casey’s blog in the next week. I feel confident that Casey is going to find the help and tools he needs to get out and get on to achieiving his goals. It’s too bad you are all so negative and wanting to see him fail. One day your karma will come back to bite you in the ass.
loading....
That’s the funny thing about the situation. There are an infinite number of solutions to his problems, but he doesn’t seem to be exploring them at this point. All of the recent posts have been a ‘woe-is-me’ account of what is happening, without much in the way of a positive, pro-active problem solving approach.
If you can help him out, nice work, it will be an amazing success story.
loading....
I think thats what amazing- why haven;t more people stepped in to help? Is it that not very many people know how to solve these problems? The people who do make a lot of money, because they literally keep families from going under and help people out of bad situations- sometimes of their own making and sometimes because of some hard luck. I can tell you Casey is in for a wild ride and everyone who watches is going to learn alot!!!
loading....
[...] Get Rich Slowly has some thoughts about the guy whose lies made him an Internet celebrity facing foreclosure. Some people think this guy is headed to do well with his life, but to me he seems like a lying loser who will look for the easy way out and find himself with big problems. Lying to get what you want is not a winning attribute. [...]
loading....
[...] Follow-Up on Casey Serin, the Man Who Would Be Rich @ Get Rich Slowly [...]
loading....
Frankly, Casey should be criminally prosecuted. Our banking and financial systems work only if there is integrety in the system. His ilk jeopordizes that. I hope one of his lenders is aware of his publicized fraud and calls the local federal prosecutor.
loading....
I can’t get your math to work out. Casey is 24 years old. Investing $5000 per year until he’s 50 (26 years from now) at a rate of 10% would likely yield him somewhere in the range of $600K, not $1M. And that’s a gross, not net, figure. Taxes alone will pull out a small chunk of that. And as a previous poster mentioned, that kind of money won’t have the same spending power that it currently does because of inflation.
I do agree with your approach though. It’s better to put something away for retirement than nothing at all.
loading....
What’s sad is that everyone is falling for Casey’s sad story. Instead of using the site to “help others in his situation” he is listening to the advice of cons who are helping him shape the site and make money off traffic of the people he claim that he is there to help.
He’s a real POS and will probably get away with the whole thing and a ton on ad revenue.
loading....
Casey is an idiot!!!!!! Flat broke, owes tons of money, too lazy to find work and still talking about investing more! More proof that it’s possible to lie, steal and cheat your way to the bottom!
loading....
So I guess we all know what is in the never-left-behind murse, now:
I’d guess it’s a .38 special and $258,312.79 of ill-gotten proceeds, hmmm?
That’s enough for you to keep the fun blog story going and as Galina says, “pull money out of your butt” for a long time further.
BTW, I could care less if you mod this post, because it is also going to be cross posted to every Casey Haterz™ site anyway, so you posting it and also replying to it here is probably your best bet. But you never take good advice anyway, so you likely will ignore that , too.
I sure hope a Russian friend doesn’t decide that they are a bit hungrier, low key, and more physical than you, and go for the murse.
ASW: craziness, indeed!
loading....
I am a loyal RSS reader of your blog – we are having a talkshoe discussing casey at 8pm est –
Next Episode
EPISODE1 – IAFF – fridat fraudcast
Time: 06/01/07 08:00 PM EDT
Talkcast ID: 34638
loading....
I ended up failing in my endeavors to be rich; I’m now nearly 26, slumming at my parents’ place for the indefinite future. It’s all good!
loading....
Duane Gran Says:
“I believe Casey may well find an opportunity to become the poster child of the housing bust.”
This prophetic comment is from 2006.
loading....
If a 26 year old kid can do all this, can you imagine what is being done by big powerful people in this contries financial markets, under the pretty name of CAPITALISM. So he “lied” about income. Big friggen deal. When a big huge corp fudges their tax forms, its all legal, but, OF COURSE, it not “lying” now, is it.
People think they can do the most dishonest, most disgusting things, all under the guise of “its business”. Except when the big boys do it and STUMBLE, they end up getting $$$$ in exit pay and the ones who suffer is…………………can you guess? Yep. Us. But, don’t worry. Its just CAPITALISM. IT’S BUSINESS, you have to let the MARKET take care of itself!! Regulation? Heavens no!!!! You have to TRUST those with the money. ITs NOT like the LAST TIME, its DIFFERENT this time……blah, blah, fucking blah….
loading....
Casey Serin? The guy should have been imprisoned and possibly even executed years ago.
Utterly disgusting that he’s still a free man.
loading....