Over the past week, I’ve received a barrage of messages from people seeking specific personal finance advice. While I’m willing to offer help where I can, many times the questions lay outside my area of expertise. I’m just a regular guy who is learning about personal finance and sharing the information with the world. I’m not a trained financial advisor. I can offer generalities, but the specifics are sometimes beyond me.
Lifehacker has a feature called “Ask the Readers”. The editors put out certain questions for group discussion. I’m going to try that here at Get Rich Slowly. My hope is that your collective wisdom will be able to help people find direction. I’m constantly amazed at the stories and advice you people have to share — let’s see if we can put it to good use.
Some of the questions will prompt criticism, but my hope is that we’ll mostly be able to be constructive and to help the people who’ve written in. With that said, here’s the first question, which comes from Jason, a young man just starting out in life. The recent entry on young people in debt prompted Jason to write:
I’m looking into taking out a loan for a car that costs $2,500, but Capital One requires a $7,500 minimum at 8% APR. Would it be okay to take out that much and to just pay back $5,000 right away? Or would this get me into trouble?
My initial reply was:
Well, it’s hard to know without actually looking at the details of the loan. The best thing to do is to read all the fine print (or to have somebody you trust do so). In most cases, though, what you’re suggesting is a good idea. That is, if you take out a loan for $7500 and only need $2500, it should be fine to pay back $5000 right away. In fact, it’s a good idea! But, as I say, you want to check the fine print first. Is Capitol One your bank? Or are you doing a cash advance on a credit card? When I bought my first car in 1991, I did a cash advance on a credit card. Yikes, that was ugly.
To which Jason responded:
Capital One is just my credit card company, so I guess indeed it would be a cash advance. Wells Fargo is my current bank. But these days it’s so damn hard to get a loan at my age.
I am currently 19 and have been building credit since the day I turned 18. I still can’t get someone to accept me. My plan is to use the money I get to buy a vehicle, and then get a second job since I won’t be attending school until next year.
That said, my one and only job is Taco Time and it pays me very poorly. I only get 15-20 hours a week (soon to be about 25). My checks are puny at a measly $220 average. Most loan agencies, banks, etc. require that you make like $1,000/month or have held your job for two years or more. I’m in quite the pickle. Is the only chance I have just flat out saving while having no fun for months and months at my low paying job?
There is literally almost nowhere ever to work in this town. [Jason lives in a small town in rural Oregon.] All the kids hold their jobs because they don’t have vehicles, either. I could get a job in larger city nearby and take the bus, but that leaves me to work only between its operating hours, and may actually only allow me to work the same hours I currently do. If you have any advice whatsoever it would be greatly appreciated.
Here is my final response:
Unfortunately, you may be in a position where, as you say, you have to have no fun for a few months at a low-paying job. I went through this when I was young, as did most of my friends. It sucks, but doesn’t last that long. If you’d like, I can post your question at Get Rich Slowly to see if the readers have any advice.
And thus “Ask the Readers” was born. Typically, I will submit a question or two each week for group discussion. I have a backlog of reader questions right now, though, so the frequency may be greater for a while. (The increase in questions may be a sign that it’s time to resurrect the defunct Get Rich Slowly discussion forums.)
This article is about Ask the Readers, Career, Debt, Frugality Wednesday, 29th November 2006 (by J.D. Roth)


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November 29th, 2006 at 12:12 pm
I’ve dealt with the Capital One $7,500 minimum car loan before. There’s one aspect that makes it a bit worse than Jason indicates: They will make that $7,500 check out to the owner of the car you’re trying to buy.
So, now you’re in an awkward situation of giving the seller $7,500 and hoping they’ll write you a check for $5,000 (the difference) and that they won’t pocket the money or run into problems cashing their check. Even worse, this is remarkably similar to the classic over-pay scam, which will make the seller of the car very frightened to deal with you.
I sold a car for $6,500 to a buyer using a $7,500 Capital One check, and wrote him a check for the difference, and everything went fine. But I was extra cautious because of the possible scam angle, and I’d understand if someone flat out didn’t want to do it.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
You need one of two things: a co-signer or a credit union. My credit union gave me a loan when I was 19 to get a car - it was, I think $5,000. It might also be possible to get a $2,500 loan from a credit union that isn’t a car loan, just a cash loan. And, of course, its possible to just save up $2,500 and pay cash.
But really - check out your credit union. I bet you’ll be suprised at the perks!
November 29th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
You might try prosper.com as it is a community of lenders and borrowers that is made up of everyday people.
I personally do not have any experience with their service, but I have been watching them for some time.
They may be more forgiving than a bank…
November 29th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
Can you get somebody to cosign a loan for you? That’s how I got my first car.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
If you read the fine print of the Capital One car loan, you’ll probably find that it’s against the contract to do what Mike is suggesting. Capital One wants you to buy a car that’s worth at least $7,500 since the car is their collateral.
Now if it’s just an unsecured loan (cash advance), then there’s probably no problem. Take the $7,500 and pay back the $5,000 instantly (you can probably just write the check to yourself or your mom). Just realize that the payments on the credit card will likely go to the lower (8%) rate first, so anything you charge on the account will sit at your normal interest rate until the $7,500 gets paid back completely. So don’t charge anything!!!
Credit cards are a tool, but you’ve got to know how to use them properly. CC companies make their money off stupid people. But smart people can make money (or pay less interest) if you understand the rules.
Another suggestions would be to see about an unsecured loan from your bank. I had a credit line set up when I was your age for overdraft protection. They offered it to me when I set up my checking account and I presumably had no credit history. But the interest rate might be closer to that of a normal CC; not sure, I never used it.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
This hasn’t really been suggested yet, so I’ll make the suggestion: If you can’t afford it, don’t buy a car. Alternatively, buy a cheaper car.
If your pay is only $220 every couple of weeks, you simply aren’t earning enough money to make a car payment, pay for car insurance (which is always higher if you’re younger), gas, repairs, etc etc etc.
Right now your best bet is to use any money you have to improve your situation so that you can get a better job. If you’re at a Taco Time, without any other education or experience, the highest aspiration you’re likely to reach is to be the manager of a Taco Time. Improving your education, or seeking out a job that will give you better experience, will help you in the long run.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:41 pm
I agree with George. Cars are very expensive, when you factor in fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc … and if you have been getting by without one, then continue to do so if possible. A better investment would be a bike … you get exercise, help the environment, and get cheap transportation at the same time.
If you had a much better job lined up that required a car (instead of a bike or a bus or carpooling with a coworker or friend), and the increase in pay would be substantially more than the overall cost of a car, then I would say it would be worth it.
But even then, if you can continue to avoid debt, at this early stage in your adult life, then I would do so. Save up the money and buy it with cash. Then you’re not saddled with debt payments, and can save the money instead. It would take awhile to save that kind of money, but as your expenses are probably not too high right now, you could probably do it within a year to 18 months. That’s a year of sacrificing, but during that time you’d be learning a habit that will pay off in gold for the rest of your life.
November 29th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
One other thought that’s more generally applicable to anybody who is thinking of buying a vehicle: consider the total cost of owning the vehicle, not just the purchase price and/or “monthly payment”.
The Canadian Automobile Association publishes a brochure called “Driving Costs” that shows how to calculate the total cost of owning a vehicle, including things like depreciation, loan interest, gasoline, insurance, repairs, registration, and so on. The brochure is available at:
http://www.caa.ca/temp/pdf/3708-en-2005.pdf
November 29th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
The federal gov’t says as of 2006 it costs 44.5* cents to drive a car a mile when you take into account the whole cost of the car,gas,oil changes,etc. This makes it the most expensive form of transportation beyond a cab, which is also a car.
So if you can figure out a job/business you can do from home/without a car, by all means do it. Now it’s very likely that’s not something you can come up with. But if you can, you’ll be better off in the long haul.
Most bus routes operate for people working early in the morning to mid afternoon or early in the morning to mid-evening. Most 19 year olds would much prefer a job in the evening, but you *can* get a good 10 hour day in while using a bus to get to work if you just get a job that starts that early.
Also: If you’re not getting free rent, MOVE. An apt with a roomate will be cheap enough in a city that has multiple in walking distance jobs.
As for car loans: Don’t get one from capital one. If you can get a parent/relative to cosign, many banks will provide you a loan, including E-loan, B of A, etc
*DON’T* take the 7500 and pay a dude and get a check back. While probably not fraudulent, you could get screwed if the guy writes you a bad check, if the bank calls the loan because it figures out you did this, or any number of reasons.
Get a different lender if you have to get a car.
Oh, an a great way to keep the money you earn from a second job rather than spending it: Have it direct deposited into a hard to get to bank account, like an ING orange.
Tips on car buying for the cash strapped:
1> Look for cars that have cosmetic damage They will (usually) be lower priced for the amount of maintenence you need to do.
2> Craiglist Craigslist Craiglist. Your local amtrack station can get you to the destination to pick up your new to you car.
Oh, with regard to banks and minimum income: If your net check is 220, your pretax income (which is what the bank cares about) *is* greater than 1K a month.
–Michael
*This is the amount companies can reimburse employees per mileage driven in their car.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:40 pm
You don’t have a problem getting a loan, you have an income problem. You said that you live in a small town and it is hard to get jobs. Try thinking outside of the box when it comes to making income. You could clean houses, cut lawns, baby/pet sit, detail cars, or any other side job that you can think of to bring up your income while you are in the process of trying to find a better paying job. You should try to calculate the costs of getting a better paying job that is out of town and figure out if it would be beneficial to travel there to work.
Take it from me, you don’t want a car loan at 19 years old making less than $1k take home pay. I think you know the answer to your own question. You just need to suck it up for another year, and save that $2500. If you start thinking of creative ways to make money, then you’ll have that $2500 in a year.
November 29th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
My advice to Jason:
Get extra jobs.
Yes, thats plural. Work at Taco Time, construction, grocery store, etc. If you’re only making $220 / week I assume you live at home with the parents and don’t have living expenses to speak of. Save every penny you can for both your first vehicle and for school. Don’t borrow money. Building credit (ie, your credit score) just means you want to be able to borrow more money.
Yes, you’ll work a lot. No, you won’t have time for “fun”. But you won’t be a slave to a bank, and you’ll appreciate your car that much more when you buy one.
Also buy the book Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey, and listen to his radio show. It will CHANGE YOUR LIFE.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Definitely explore the credit union suggestion, Oregon Community Credit Union is available to just about any resident of the state. My first car was finance through a CU and it was perfect at the time. They financed 100% at a very competetive rate.
One thing to keep in mind, a $2500 car may not last until it’s paid for which will make you “upside down” when you are in a position to buy another car. It’s not a good position to be in so make sure you buy something that will last until it’s paid for.
Once you have the car, ask some of those other kids in your town if they want to carpool to the nearest place with more job opportunities. Whatever money you can make from them should be used to pay down your car loan.
Good luck to you.
November 30th, 2006 at 4:31 am
I would work out whether the (monetary) benefit of the car outweighs the cost. That is whether the extra income you could earn by having a car is more than the cost of whatever car loan / insurance / petrol money that you will spend on running the car.
If there are other people in your town who travel to work, maybe you could get a ride with them, at least to start off with.
Is it possible to get the bus to a better paid job, that is same/similar hours and more money? That might work out better from a financial situation - you’d have to run the figures to find out.
November 30th, 2006 at 8:07 am
If you do find a loan that works for you, you could always figure out the exact terms, plus insurance, estimated fuel costs and maintenance and then spend a few months pretending like you have those operating costs, plus the payment to make (you’ll be paying yourself!).
At the end of that time you’ll know if you can realistically make that paymen each montht. You’ll also have started saving for the car if you decide not to finance it (which is really what you should do).
You should also figure out how much that $2500 car will actually cost you if you get a loan. Paying $3,000+ may not make sense in the long run.
November 30th, 2006 at 9:19 am
Joshua offers good advice. You are probably too young to realize you don’t really “need” a car. Once you get one, you’ll basically be working to keep it, or going into debt. Wants vs. needs. Your probably going to have to learn the hard way. Enjoy your ride, because you’ll be paying for it for the rest of your life. If not a debt, then in opportunity cost. Save to buy. Period. Do not borrow. Save to buy. I was a financial retard as well. I learned the hard way.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:55 am
Hell, just shoot yourself and be done with it.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:31 pm
Does Jason still live with his parents? Is he claimed as a dependent on their tax return? If so, AFAIK it’s fair game to include his parents’ income in the “annual household income” figure. I did this throughout college on my credit apps, and it allowed me to build a solid credit history despite having a relatively weak personal income.
November 30th, 2006 at 6:44 pm
Let me tell you that a car payment at 19 is not worth it.. How would I know? I’m 19 now and have a 200/month car payment through Toyota. I had my parents co-sign the loan but coming up with that 200 every month hurts. Save up, it’s worth it.