I still use my credit card for certain limited purposes, and I use a debit card, and I’m working on getting out of debt. I think the interesting thing in this whole dicussion is the way it’s so either/or for many people. EITHER you use (and thus agree with the use of) credit cards OR you think it’s a great evil. Etc. Even Dave Ramsey falls victim to this mentality.

I think it’s possible to be a sane credit card user — incredibly difficult, but hard. I think a lot of us (myself first) delude ourselves thinking we can use a card responsibly. For anybody who routinely carries a balance of any amount they couldn’t easily pay off within a payment or two, I think we are to some degree deluding ourselves that we are responsible users of credit cards.

Yes, today’s world is set up so that credit is almost surely a necessity. That doesn’t mean we have an open ticket to rack up the bills. It’s all about moderation and self-control — if you have it more power to you. You need it, and moderation and self-control are ironically two things credit card use is incredibly adept at overriding.

Anyway, I’ll not worry whether others ought use credit cards or ought not to. I’ve got quite enough on my hands keeping my own spending (barely) in check to pass judgement on others.

Maybe there should be a front-page post about this issue: how banks respond to debit card theft compared to credit card theft, laws and bank policies on customer liability, and how to get an ATM card that isn’t a debit card.

Maybe even a post about living without credit *or* debit cards: Use the ATM card for groceries and cash, use cash for small purchases, and use checks or money orders for medium and big stuff. For online shopping, Amazon.com lets you pay with bank transfers, others accept PayPal. If you really want to live card free, it’s probably worth it to just not use card-only retailers.

Debit cards have fraud advantages, too: Unlike the routing numbers printed on checks, debit cards expire, and have security numbers on the back that change every time a new card is issued. I wouldn’t write a check or give routing numbers to anyone I wouldn’t trust with my debit card.

The best advice is to have an emergency fund, so when (not if) your debit card number is stolen, you can replace the stolen amount quickly so your checks will still clear while the bank investigates your claim.

If you have good credit but no longer use it, it may be misleading to tell folks with no credit that they don’t need it based on your own experiences.

However, everyone must understand that her experience is Unusual. Yes, with a capital U. The vaaast majority of landlords and employers who use credit checks will simply disregard an applicant with no credit history, because they haven’t the time and there are many other applicants who do have the track record they need to fill in all the right blanks.

So yes - this method is doable. However, it should be suggested only with the caveat that it carries a significant burden of extra work and probable lost opportunity.

Having a credit history (obtained thru mostly wise use of credit cards and one car loan (which I’ll never do again, btw)) enabled me to get lower-than-market financing on my house through the federal government, for whom a credit check was not negotiable.

Just sayin’.

“I’d hate to see when you do mean to be insulting. It’s really difficult to take the rest of what you write seriously with a stinker like that in the middle.”

Unfortunately, despite the author’s apparent desire to make the world a better place, the entire post comes off as sanctimonious and self-congratulatory.

Sure, you can build some of a credit score with your bills, but overwhelmingly, the industry has made it so that card=score.

While this is a great plan for living, and shows that you don’t necessarily need a score to live your life, it also doesn’t answer the original question, and shouldn’t be knocking the people who did.

If you’ve listened to his radio show at all (I listened to it daily for nearly a year), you will have heard him say repeatedly that the only sort of credit card he uses for any reason is a “pre-loaded” debit card that has only the balance that he paid into it. It’s alspo the only sort of card he allows employees to use for business purposes.

Also, if you’ve tried to buy anything off his website, he only accepts debit cards, not credit cards. He has a debit card policy stated clearly on his website.

I’d hate to see when you do mean to be insulting. It’s really difficult to take the rest of what you write seriously with a stinker like that in the middle.

A lot of people who get ahead in life use credit/leverage. Ask Dave Ramsey how many credit accounts his company has ( and how often they are beyond terms). It is very easy for someone to SELL an idea when he is making millions off it - by accepting credit cards at his website.

I’m sure that Ramsey’s corporate offices use credit. It would be curious to know if they pay within terms, though that’s something that’s really impossible to discover unless his company discloses it.

There are very deep philosophical differences in these viewpoints. For example I believe highly in personal responsibility and indidivualism. I believe adults can make choices and be responsible for their own lives. Ramsey-types view adults as children in need of preaching to, who are not capable of controlling their own lives. Paternalism, Authoritarianism, whatever you want to call it.

Here I disagree with you strongly. I’ve never heard Ramsey’s program — only read his book — but I believe it is unfair to say that Ramsey views adults as children who need preaching to. Speaking for myself, humans are complex psychological creatures with motivations that are often hidden even to themselves. If a person knows from experience that they have difficulty using credit responsibly, it is *admirable* for them to avoid its use. If a person doesn’t even want to try to use credit, that should be encouraged. There are many people who use credit responsibly. These people, too, should be lauded. But I think it’s apparent that too many people use credit irresponsibly, and these people, especially, need to be shown that there are options. They don’t need to be preached to by *anyone*, Ramsey or otherwise.

And not all debt is bad.

A lot of people who get ahead in life use credit/leverage. Ask Dave Ramsey how many credit accounts his company has ( and how often they are beyond terms). It is very easy for someone to SELL an idea when he is making millions off it - by accepting credit cards at his website.

There are very deep philosophical differences in these viewpoints. For example I believe highly in personal responsibility and indidivualism. I believe adults can make choices and be responsible for their own lives. Ramsey-types view adults as children in need of preaching to, who are not capable of controlling their own lives. Paternalism, Authoritarianism, whatever you want to call it.

I’m not so sure about car loans, but I’ll testify to education loans: I borrowed $100k to go to law school, and while that liability freaked me out on paper, it’s practically paying for itself.

Minor caveat: Said professor gained notoriety a few years later as The Stoned Professor. But to his credit, he wasn’t like that when I took his class.