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Note: I’ve received many questions about Prosper, but I’ve never used it. Here’s a post from Frykitty, the very very quiet second author at Get Rich Slowly. She recently set up a Prosper account and has written to share her experience.
Last December I discovered Prosper, a site that connects private lenders and borrowers, and manages the resulting loans. Because I’m not a fan of the stock market, this looked like a perfect opportunity to invest on my terms, to help individuals with faces and stories, rather than contribute to the bottom-line culture. I decided to start the new year by testing Prosper with a set amount of funds to see how it performed.
Borrowers sign up on Prosper, then post a request for a loan and the maximum amount they’re willing to pay in interest. Lenders then bid to fund all or part of that loan, at an interest rate of their choosing. You win a bid by coming in at a lower interest rate than your competitors.
Prosper Tip #1: Patience is a virtue.
I signed up with Prosper on January 1, 2007. Because there was no space for a mailing address in addition to a home address, there was a small verification problem that required some faxing, and that took me a few days. On January 3, I was approved as a lender. To bid on an account, you must have funds in Prosper. I immediately added an account and initiated a transfer of $500 to begin my experiment. On 1/5, I saw the money leave my bank account. On 1/9, the transfer was finally complete, and I was able to bid. Yes, that’s almost 10 days between signing up and being able to bid. That’s a long time in Web years. Prosper has recently made some changes to their customer support and approval processes, so this wait may be shorter in the future.
At last I was able to bid. I decided to fund 10 $50 loans, two each in five credit ranges. At the time, Prosper credit ratings went from AA to NC (no credit history), with the lowest rating being HR, or High Risk. Prosper recently changed their ratings, raising the credit scores for E (560-599) and HR (520-559), and they no longer allow listings from those with a lower score than 520, or no credit history. While I liked to help out those NC folks, apparently other lenders showed little interest. I did bid in time to fund two NC loans, and also two each of A, B, C, and D. I passed on E and HR.
Prosper Tip #2: Bid on loans that are already 100% funded.
Lenders can bid on loans for a specific amount of time, kind of like an eBay auction. If there is a lot of interest in the loan, many lenders will bid, covering the entire amount of the loan. Unless the bidding is set to be automatically ended when the loan is funded (rare), you can still bid, as the idea is to get funding at the lowest interest rate possible for the borrower. Lowball a little — put in an interest rate you still like, but that is a point or two lower than others are bidding. Chances are, you will get to fund part of that loan.
When you bid on a brand new listing, or one where little interest has been shown by other lenders, the listing will often go away when the amount is not funded, leaving you to start the process over.
Once the bidding has ended, Prosper verifies everything, then funds the loan. This can take as long as a week. One loan on which I won the bid was cancelled before funding, as Prosper was unable to verify all information regarding the borrower. Prosper is very, very careful about fraud, and they err on the side of caution, an attitude I appreciate enough to put up with the extra time it takes to get through the process.
Prosper Tip #3: Remember: you’re the bank.
Once my loans were all funded, it was time to watch the payments roll in. It’s something like watching a garden grow. All Prosper loans are on 3-year terms, with the borrower making monthly payments due beginning one month from origination. The borrower may pay extra principle, and can repay the entire loan at any time with no penalty. This is where it’s important to remember that you are playing bank, and it’s different from other investments and from savings; while the loan carries a specific interest rate, that is not your ultimate return. As with a bank loan, taking the full term to repay works in the bank’s favor. Cribbing from Prosper’s excellent FAQ:
Interest and annual servicing fees are accrued daily, and are based on the current outstanding loan principal.
To calculate the daily accrual amounts, take the principal balance on any given day and multiply it times the daily rate (based on a 365-day year):
Equation:
Daily accrual = (Annual rate / 365) * Principal balance
For example, if you own $50 of a loan with an annual interest rate of 10%, you will accrue $0.0136 in interest on a daily basis, and $0.00068 in lender servicing fees (which have an annual rate of 0.5%). Keep in mind that as the principal balance drops (because the borrower makes payments each month), the rate of accrual will also slow over the life of the loan.Assuming a full three-year loan, your $50 loan at 10% interest would earn you $8.12 in total interest, and you would pay a total of $0.41 in servicing fees.
To get historical numbers, study Prosper’s Marketplace Performance charts. This gives a very useful picture of the default rate as well. Default is your primary risk with Prosper, and you can manage that risk by researching the different credit grades, examining the income-to-debt ratio of the borrower, and any other factors which may affect repayment.
So far, I have only a few dollars in my Prosper account, as most of my loans originated less than a month ago. Once I have another $50 in my account, I’ll bid on another loan, continuing to reinvest. I won’t have a good handle on the ultimate performance of Prosper until my initial loans are repayed, and I can see how the investment has performed over those three years. At the moment, I have 10 active loans with an average interest rate of 13.99%, and all are current, with several of them processing payments. These first payments are like watching those first crocuses bloom. I hope I’ve planted some sunflowers.
Look for additional information about Prosper later today. Frykitty has also contributed reviews of Your Money or Your Life and Start Late, Finish Rich. She is the mastermind behind the blogathon. She also does a terrific job of feeding me story ideas for Animal Intelligence.
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February 22nd, 2007 at 5:30 am
I had looked into Prosper a while back, too, but wasn’t sure about the risk. My major concern was even if you spread your loans out, what happens when one of them doesn’t repay? Does the money you make on the others cover that cost AND still give a nice return? I wasn’t convinced.
I would feel differently if I had all of the lender’s personal information and could verify it myself. When I last checked you couldn’t do that. Has it changed?
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:20 am
Have you seen anything like this for higher loan amounts? It seems that their maximum is $25,000.
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:43 am
Holy crap, what a horrible idea. I’d bet anything that this site will be gone before your 3 years are up.
Think about it - you are lending to people that can’t scrape together 50 freaking bucks. You aren’t doing these people a favor, you are enabling their poor financial habits.
A few of these people will default on you and your time, effort and money will have been wasted.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:03 am
I remember hearing about this site back when it first launched over a year ago. It was a very interesting idea and it’s great to hear that it is still going strong. I held out on investing money at first but the system certainly has been refined from launch.
Are you involved in the Prosper community very much? One of the neat things I remember is that there are forums where lenders discuss the viability of different applications.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:20 am
Jon: I don’t think so, but I haven’t looked around as much as I’d like.
Jag: You misunderstand. $50 is just the portion of the loan I funded. I chose that amount to keep my risk relatively low. The loans themselves are usually for a few thousand dollars, funded by several lenders.
jf: No, I haven’t really become involved the the community, but that’s a good idea.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:25 am
Jag wrote: Holy crap, what a horrible idea. I’d bet anything that this site will be gone before your 3 years are up.
My initial reaction was skepticism, too, when I first heard about Prosper last spring. I’ll admit to being a bit of a skeptic still. But since then, I’ve read a little more about microcredit, and now believe it has an important role to play in the future economy. I’m not the only one who thinks so.
Last year Muhammad Yunus was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his work with microcredit and the poor. This is a real, viable concept, and many people view it as a way to do some good with their cash. It’s a sort of a cross between an investment and a charitable contribution. Does that make sense?
If I were doing this, I would make the investment with the realization that it was high risk and that I might lose the money, but accepting this because even if I did lose the cash, it would be going to help somebody in need. I know that’s probably a little strange to some people, but it’s a lot like loaning money to family or friends: you don’t do that with the expectation that you’ll ever see the money again. You make those sort of loans to help somebody out, and if you do get the money back, so much the better.
Still, I think most people who use it view Prosper as an investment vehicle, and aren’t taking an altruistic outlook. One man has invested $750,000 through Prosper. That shows some faith.
I should also mention that Kiva offers a similar concept, but for third-world entrepreneurs. Cat, you may want to take a look at Kiva.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:50 am
For more on microcredit, check out this overview in Kevin Kelly’s Cool Tools blog.
I really like this concept and had never heard of Prosper before. Too often we overlook opportunities to reduce poverty in our own backyards…this is a very promising way to give others a hand up. And it’s interesting to view it as an investment opportunity; I hadn’t considered that before.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:06 am
@Cat
Thanks for the clarification. That makes more sense.
Still - I think the risks of this type of investment are extremely high. You mentioned that you aren’t a fan of the the stock market? The stock market has been around for a very long time and has a track record that can be examined thoroughly before deciding to invest. Prosper.com has no track record. It’s completely unproven and its very existence depends on borrowers that have proven their inability to save $ (why else would they need to borrow?).
If you want to help “individuals with actual faces and stories” then volunteer in your community. You can find people in need in every town in America. Don’t put your personal finances at risk to help random strangers that refuse to live on less than they make.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:17 am
@JD
Microcredit seems more plausible than prosper.com, but it’s still not something I would ever take part in. If I want to help somebody in need, then I GIVE the money, I don’t look for a silver lining of possible profits.
The best advice I can give when it comes to lending money to friends or family is this - don’t do it - EVER. If they need money and you want to help them, then GIVE them the money as a gift and don’t accept repayment. When you loan a family member money, you have fundamentally altered your relationship. It’s a bad, bad idea. I once gave my sister money when she was in need. She tried to repay me later on. I told her if she really felt the need to repay the money, then she should pay it forward and help somebody else in need.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:26 am
In principle (no pun intended) I like the idea of nontraditional/altruistic micro-lending, but I’m most uncomfortable with the 3-year term. Presumably the site has a means for selling your loan to someone else if you wanted to cash-out?
Overall, this is a high-beta investment and I’m not yet convinced it has any place in my portfolio. I’d prefer to discuss why frykitty is “not a fan of the stock market.”
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:09 am
So, I just signed up for Kiva and made some micro-loans. The funny thing is, I can’t seem to find anything that mentions the interest rate on the loan or the expected return. Does Kiva not charge interest for their microloans or does Kiva keep all the interest or what?
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:23 am
Kiva keeps the interest to pay for the running costs of organising the microcredit. The details are on the website somewhere.
One of the benefits of microcredit for the borrower is that its not charity. You are encouraging a move into independence, albeit with a loan rather than furthering dependence on charity. Charities don’t, for example, give people money to buy a mobile phone so that they can sell calls to other people in their village.
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:25 am
Matthew: this is from Kiva’s FAQ on their website:
“26 Do I get interest on my loan?
No. Kiva.org’s loans do not provide a financial return on investment.
27 Does Kiva.org charge interest?
Currently Kiva.org does not charge interest to our Field Partners, however we will begin charging a small (approximately 2%) fee to our Field Partners in 2007. This fee will contribute towards Kiva.org’s operating costs while still allowing our Field Partners significant savings to their cost of debt capital.
28 Do Kiva.org’s Field Partners charge interest to the entrepreneurs?
Yes. Self-sustainability is critical to creating long-term solutions to poverty and charging interest to entrepreneurs is necessary for microfinance institutions to achieve this. Our Field Partners are free to charge interest, but Kiva.org will not partner with an organization that charges exorbitant interest rates. Kiva.org also requires Field Partners to fully disclose their interest rates.
Microfinance is an expensive business, which is essentially the reason small loans are not provided by large banks. While Kiva.org’s Field Partners do not bear the cost of capital or the cost of default, they do bear transaction costs and currency risk. Charging interest to entrepreneurs enables our Field Partners to bear these costs and achieve self-sustainability.”
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:45 am
Do you have bond funds? You’ve lent money to a bunch of companies, governments, agencies, etc — some of them will fail and never pay you back.
Prosper works pretty much the same way. You treat it as a numbers game. Accept that some of your loans will default, price your credit grade/interest according and diversify.
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:45 am
Excellent, useful writeup–thank you.
As to why frykitty is not a fan of the stock market, the bit about not contributing to “bottom-line culture” plus a quick scan of her review of Your Money or Your Life give some pretty good clues
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:05 am
I hadn’t heard of Prosper.com, thanks for the review and I’d be really interested in hearing more as things develop.
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:10 am
I had considered this last summer, and was going to put in $1-200 and do a test run, very similar to Cat’s. The problem I encountered was that the company did not support people outside of the US (IE, us Canadians). Is anyone aware if this has changed?
Also, Cat, will you be writing a follow up in a quarter or two, to let us know the true experience on there? I would like to see a truly subjective review of the service.
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:43 am
Meaghan, thanks for the info. I must not have seen that on Kiva’s FAQ. I promise, I did look.
While I understand the point of Kiva, I have to admit that I can’t see it becoming very popular simply because the only real reason to fund these non-interest-earning microloans is to get some warm fuzzies. There really aren’t any monetary advantages to Kiva. All it gives you is a place to tie up your funds from which others make a profit while your money comes back to you at the end of the loan terms at the exact same amount you put in. In other words, thanks to inflation, I’m worse off at the end of the loan. On my side of the equation, I’d be just as well off to go stuff the cash under a mattress. Kiva microloan funding doesn’t even get you a tax break for charitable giving.
Perhaps if there were a tax write off for the money lost to inflation, it would at least be a net-even system, but as it stands Kiva will only appeal to those philanthropists with a strong belief in capitalism in developing countries.
I think they could get a lot more funding if they could extend some profit to their members. I mean, the optimum 1 year CD APY right now is nearly 5.5%. If Kiva could give me 6.5% on a one year loan (and Kiva had say, a 90% loan repayment rate), I’d still end up ahead of a same term CD. Maybe that just isn’t possible with all the middle men and field agents and such, I don’t know. I definitely wouldn’t want them charging exorbitant interest rates to the poor people of these developing countries. That would seem like exploitation.
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:05 am
Matthew wrote:
There are thousands (if not millions) of them. Microcredit is become very popular among philanthropists; it’s seen as a much more effective way to help people out of poverty than by giving them handouts.
The “no tax writeoff” thing is indeed a drawback, but most serious philanthropists (by which philanthropists who are serious about the causes and people they want to support) wouldn’t let that stop them. Speaking as a (very small scale) philanthropist who regularly makes non-deductible donations.
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:13 am
Mossy- I personally don’t have bonds/bond funds, but the analogy is apppropriate except for the liquidity of investments (unless, as I asked earlier, it is possible to sell one’s loan to someone else). A sizeable bond market exists for exiting such an investment.
Communicatrix- Sorry, didn’t mean it to be a personal attack on Cat, but I still don’t see what’s so wrong with the stock market and I didn’t read anything like that in the YMOYL review. All I meant to suggest was that we might discuss it. You’re correct that it’s an excellent review of Prosper.com.
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:31 am
This has definitely got my interest piqued. However, there remains a fundamental question that I would like to have answered. What value does Prosper.com provide that traditional financial institutions do not?
For example, if I am a borrower that qualifies for a B credit rating (according to Prosper.com) and I want to borrow $2000, Prosper’s current interest rate is about 10%. Is this substantially better than I would get at a bank? Both Prosper and the bank are using the same information to qualify my loan, right? So why wouldn’t they give me approximately the same rate?
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:43 am
I did a quick scan of Prosper’s FAQ, so maybe I missed it, but I have a couple of concerns.
The first is getting my money out of Prosper. Okay: I’ve loaned some people some money, and they’ve paid me back, or whatever. How much of a pain is it to transfer that cash back into a checking or savings account? Does a full withdrawal of funds close my account? More importantly: are they going to charge me a fee to withdraw funds?
Next: taxes. Is Prosper going to send me a 1099-INT? Is that even the right form for this?
Third (and this one is personal): choosing a rate. I don’t want to gouge the borrowers, but at the same time, I do want to be adequately compensated for the level of risk I’m taking. I’m not very good at evaluating credit risk, and I’m especially ignorant of how to judge default risk for an individual.
It seems like a really cool idea, but right now I don’t feel especially comfortable with it. To anyone who tries it long-term, though, I’d be interested in hearing their stories. (Once Prosper has a long term, that is.)
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:56 am
In the UK we have a similar service at http://www.zopa.com. It is pretty popular and the good thing about it is that you earn interest on money in your account whilst it’s waiting to be lent out.
I wrote a post about it on my blog investjournal.blogspot.com
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:02 pm
majeest,
This page here should answer your question about transferring funds out of your Prosper account.
https://www.prosper.com/public/help/topics/account-transfer_funds.aspx
squished
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:12 pm
I love these reviews of new tech spins on the social networking idea. Prosper seems like a good idea, and the review was well thought-through (as I’ve come to expect from this site). Great stuff!
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:04 pm
I think all but a few of the questions posed have been answered.
On liquidity: once you commit to funding a loan, you are in for three years.
On the beta nature of Prosper: yep, it’s risky right now. Because it’s a concept I’m excited about, I’m willing to march point. I am definitely planning regular follow-ups, to let everyone know how Prosper performs.
On the stock market: I know I’m a vegan at a barbecue on this one, and that’s cool. The world is not a perfect place. Many of the things wrong with it come down to one cause: greed. Sweatshop working conditions, environmental degradation, and a thousand other problems have bottom-line culture at their root. Bottom-line culture is public companies who must continually pay investors; they must grow or die. A company is not allowed to reach a place of comfortable profit, where everyone is earning a decent salary and whatever they do, they are doing their best. Instead, a company is expected to either expand their business, or cut costs to make the bottom line. This has tremendous consequences in the world.
I know that not investing in the stock market is a tiny thing, and hardly hurts this system at all, but it’s important to me. It’s hardly possible to step completely out of the money cycle, but staying out of the stock market is one small thing I can do.
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:13 pm
A company is not allowed to reach a place of comfortable profit, where everyone is earning a decent salary and whatever they do, they are doing their best. Instead, a company is expected to either expand their business, or cut costs to make the bottom line. This has tremendous consequences in the world.
Shh. Don’t tell anyone, but we try to run our box factory like this. Edward Abbey said, “Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.” We’ve tried to find a place of stasis where we are providing a good product and good service at a fair price while providing a work environment that fosters our employees’ well-being. We don’t pay big bucks, not even to ourselves, but we pay above average. Plus we understand that our employees have lives. We’re accommodating. Of course it helps that we’re just ten people, but still - people find this shocking.
Will we remain this was forever? Who can say? But for now, it’s what we feel is right.
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:22 pm
How you run the box company is no surprise, since you’re perfectly familiar with the concept of “enough”.
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Cat,
Many public companies are driven by greed and they probably make the world a worse place, but why attempt to punish *every* company by not investing? If you invest in socially responsible companies only, you’d be sending a stronger message than if you don’t invest at all.
I don’t think you’ve eliminated this problem by lending to people at prosper.com. Every borrower is going to come up with a legitimate sounding reason to borrow money. In reality, most of the money that people borrow will be used to help them buy material items (from socially irresponsible companies no doubt).
If you are loaning money to an American, you are most likely loaning money to somebody that is living paycheck to paycheck and has to borrow money because they have a lot of credit card debt and a leased SUV, etc, etc that is draining their wallet.
Why not invest in socially responsible companies and then donate some of the profits to one of the many worthy charities in your area?
You have no idea who you are lending to or what your money is being used for with prosper.com.
-Jag
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Hi all - I’m the product manager over at Prosper, and the owner of this blog asked us to answer some of the questions. Most questions can be answered on our help pages, but here are some direct answers to questions posed here…
(number indicates comment # above)
1. When a borrower misses a payment, we send them to a collection agency and ding their credit report. If the agency can’t collect after 4 months of delinquency, we sell the loan to a debt buyer. Our first debt sale returned an average of 11 cents on the dollar to participating lenders.
And no, we don’t give out the borrower’s personal information for lenders to check it. We do it ourselves for 1) convenience, and 2) to protect lenders from any kind of legal credit reporting issues.
2. Yes, our maximum loan amount is $25k.
3. No comment, although I’m quite positive that we’ll be around for at least 3 years.
6. We agree that microcredit is an amazingly powerful force for good, and also love Kiva.org. Definitely check it out if you haven’t already.
7. Actually, most of our lenders look at Prosper primarily as a means to earn higher returns than they would through other investments. Many also enjoy the social elements of the site, but our research shows that good returns is the most important factor.
8. Jagg Nog said that “the risks of this type of investment are extremely high”. Well, yes, if you lend to high-risk borrowers, then the risks are very high. However, our AA-D credit grades (the lower-risk borrowers) are returning a risk-adjusted 8-12%. Check out our marketplace performance page, and scroll down to see the “Estimated ROIs” at the bottom.
10. No, we do not currently have a method for lenders to sell their loans if they want to get out before the borrower has paid the loan back. We hope to do this in the future.
11. No, loans on Kiva do not yield a return. They are interest-free for lenders (which I think is actually appropriate for what they are doing). The borrowers do actually pay interest to the MFIs (Micro Finance Institutions), but all of the interest is eaten up in servicing fees, so Kiva doesn’t pay interest to lenders.
17. Yes, right now we are for US residents only (SSN is required). We may expand in the future, but for now we are US-only.
21. Prosper’s rates are generally lower than those available for banks. Here’s an example of a woman who has a credit card rate at 17%, and it looks like her Prosper loan will fund around 11.45%. She has great credit, but the same kinds of benefits apply across the credit spectrum. In fact, lots of high-risk borrowers get loans on Prosper who can’t get loans through banks or credit cards at all.
22. You can transfer your earnings out of Prosper at any time. It’s super-easy, and free - we’ve basically built a Paypal-like system into our site, so that you can transfer funds electronically back and forth between your bank and your Prosper account.
Yes, we send you tax forms based on your lending activity. Learn more here.
You can see what rates are being loaned on this page. It’s up to you to choose the rate that’s right for you, but these are the averages across the last 30 days.
—-
I think those were all of the big questions - let me know if there are more. Or, again, check out our help section. We also have tutorials and forums.
Best regards,
Andrew
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:21 pm
The companies I would choose to invest in are unlikely to be publicly traded, and if they are, they would have a high failure rate, because they would not continue to grow. Which kind of precludes the need for my investment anyway. It would be necessary for me to investigate individual companies and buy stocks on my own without depending upon a mutual or index fund, as these always include companies I do not want to support. Perhaps there is a good way for me to do this, and I haven’t investigated thoroughly enough. I don’t see how the risk would be less than what I’m currently doing. So I choose not to support the system.
Because I can look at individual loans and adjust my risk accordingly at Prosper, I’m comfortable. There is a certain amount of trust involved–I’m trusting folks not to lie, and trusting Prosper to do verification. I’m more inclined to do that with individuals than corporations. I choose to fund loans for people who are doing things that align with my own values; things like digging out of debt, or buying a first home. That cute couple who wanted to pay for a big wedding? Someone else can fund them.
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:26 pm
[...] today, Frykitty shared her experiences with Prosper, the person-to-person lending site. Her post prompted an excellent discussion. Here’s some [...]
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Cat,
I disagree with the assertion that it is a “rule” that companies must grow or die to survive on the stock market. I believe it is true that the nature of the stock market encourages these types of companies. I also think that many companies have expectations set on them (via their stock price) to grow. However, I do not agree that the only type of company that survives on the stock market is one that grows year on year.
Perhaps ironically, one example of a company that does not set growth as an objective is Berkshire Hathaway. Warren Buffett is on record as stating that for their insurance business (which is their biggest business), they write policies for which there is demand. They don’t set a target of how much revenue they wish to generate for the next year. By the nature of running a good business that creates value both for the customer and the business, they have grown.
I believe this is related to the proverb that the love of money is the root of evil. Companies that set growth targets often end up sacrificing moral principles for the sake of the almighty dollar. I believe companies that focus on what value they are bringing to the world and charging a fair price for it, earn a decent living in the long run and usually end up growing. Sometimes living up to their moral principles mean not earning as much in a given year.
I would agree that over 90% of the participants in the stock market are in it just for the money. They are not interested in building businesses or generating real value, for the customer or anybody else. I too am not immune to these tendencies of greed. However, I continue to believe that the system is a good one and can be one of real value, if used with good purpose. I would encourage you to look for those companies that are “right-sized”.
squished
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:56 pm
I’ve been on Prosper since it opened just over a year ago (Prosper’s been open for about a year and a week, my one year anniversary was 3 days ago). I have $25,000+ invested, and over 1400 posts on the forum. As you can tell, I’m a big fan of Prosper.
If anyone is genuinely interested in this, check out the forums: http://forums.prosper.com/index.php
There’s a trove of knowledge there, and if you have any questions, send me a pm on there (same name, arebelspy), I’d be glad to help out.
-arebelspy
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Regarding Kiva (in response to Matthew’s post further up the thread):
I don’t regard my loans through Kiva the same way I would regard loans through Prosper (which I have not participated in). Before I started loaning through Kiva, I was donating a certain amount to charity every month. Now, I split that money in half- half goes to the charity I used to donate to, half goes to loans through Kiva. It’s not an investment, no. But it’s not supposed to be.
To me, it’s a way of making a difference that is highly personal- instead of sending it off to some charity and not knowing exactly what it’s being spent on, you choose a person- choose a business model- and help to give them the tools so that they can succeed.
I invest through the stock market. I give through Kiva.
And no, it’s not tax deductible, but if you take the standard deduction (like I do), who cares?
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:42 pm
This is VERY interesting. I had actually been idly wondering if a site like this could be viable and for some reason didn’t actively go looking for it. I am just starting to look at small-scale investing this year (I’m newly out of debt). Since I’ve sadly seen firsthand that startups fail no matter their leaders’ level of “confidence,” my decision to sign up and invest would depend on getting more information from Prosper and/or from a third party about exactly what happens if they stop operating. (They say on their site that the existing loans wold be overtaken by a third-party servicer, but I don’t know enough about financial laws to know whether that is truly mandatory and guaranteed to happen.)
February 23rd, 2007 at 12:32 am
p.s. In case I wasn’t clear, my intent was to say that startups fail independently of “confidence” levels, not (of course) that all startups are doomed to failure.
I got a chance to look more at the site and I’m having a mostly positive but still mixed reaction. I would really like to be able to look at overall default/failure rates (it would be okay if they weighted them by their current standards, for example eliminating or otherwise compensating for the original standards for borrowers which were more relaxed). Or rates by category (their “A,” “B,” etc. ratings matched with default rates for all people who were rated with that letter when their loans were funded).
It’s disconcerting that all I’ve found so far is individual users speculating (and of course giving contradictory info) about default rates in the forums. If I’m missing someplace I should be looking, I’d be happy to hear about it…
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:31 am
Cat,
From my perspective, you aren’t helping anyone by lending them money at a rate of 14%. It’s more likely that you are enabling their already poor money management. Who the heck digs themselves out of debt by borrowing money at 14%???
Squished made a great point about companies and growth. Not all company growth is evil. Sometimes companies grow because they offer a great product at a fair price. Sometimes it is a life saving product. Do some research and find these companies.
By the way, proper.com wants to grow aggressively and become an enormous success with insane profits, so you better pull your money out now…
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:47 am
Well, I think prosper is a very good idea. I don’t know, if it will work out for them, but still it is a great venture, which can kick the big banks out of the income chain and divert their profit to the normal people.
What I really hate though, is that you only learn AFTER registration that you cannot do anything on the website, if you don’t live in the U.S. Maybe I missed it, but I read those small print legal agreements in advance and I could not find anything in there. Of course I understand that a registered user has a lot of worth for an internet startup, but this is still rude.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:56 am
Kay,
You may want to check the original posting by Cat. Within the posting, there is a link to a page on Prosper that shows exactly what you are looking for. The link is labelled “Marketplace Performance”. It shows the total amounts invested and total defaults over the life of Prosper (or any other time frame). It’s a great page and gives me great confidence in what they are doing. The biggest difficulty I have right now is I’m a Canadian. Gotta find a way to get my money south of the border.
squished
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:26 am
The supposition that public companies must grow to survive is largely based on historical fact. All too often a company’s stock will fall after posting a large gain because the market knows the likelihood of repeating such a large gain is small. In general (there are always exceptions) the purpose of the market is a positive return on investment. I don’t think that growth is necessarily bad or exploitative of workers, but there are examples where it is. I’m going to remain non-judgemental about this. I work for a company that people love to hate, believing that it is pure evil for doing the work that it does, associated with the people that it is. From the inside I can see for myself that this isn’t true.
March 3rd, 2007 at 1:08 pm
[...] 22nd: Prosper: Investing on YOUR terms (a guest post from [...]
March 6th, 2007 at 6:50 am
[...] FryKitty special guest posting for JD about Prosper. Some good gems of advice in there. I’ll keep them in mind if I decide to step up my Prosper investing. [...]
March 9th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Thanks for the pointer, squished! Interesting to see on that chart that over the last two years, the “B” and “C” rated borrower groups seem to have performed almost the same. (As expected, A and AA were substantially better, and D or lower were substantially worse.)
So it looks like in the end, lenders earned more by funding C people than funding B people.
But it’s hard to predict anything for the future from that, especially since Prosper is still refining the standards of what the ratings are and who can borrow.
March 19th, 2007 at 6:05 am
[...] I encourage you to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!I recently posted two entries (1, 2) with experiences from people who loaned money through Prosper, the person-to-person lending [...]
March 20th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
[...] possess a strong credit record, and already have bids from other members. When starting out, only bid on loans that have been 100% funded. Why? Because veteran Prosper members have already invested their money in the loan, so your [...]
May 28th, 2007 at 11:40 am
A problem with people “trying” Prosper is that they aren’t willing to put in enough to truly diversify. If you “start” with $500 or even $1000 dollars, how many loans will you make? How many can you afford to default at some point? Its not many, if any. Most people would never think of putting $500 into a single stock and considering that smart investing. You can’t become a lender (technically a “loan buyer”) with $500; at least not responsibly. If you want to “try it” to check out the process, then fine. But, if you want to test out the validity of the investment overall, you’ll need more than a couple of hundred of bucks IMO.
May 29th, 2007 at 4:29 am
[...] Original article: Investing on YOUR Terms [...]
June 12th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Cat, could you update us on how your experiance is going with prosper?
Thanks
July 9th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
“If you “start” with $500 or even $1000 dollars, how many loans will you make? How many can you afford to default at some point?”
Exactly! No return for reinvestment until you’ve about $6000 invested. Then, you can fund 4 new loans each month with the payments received.
Prosper is set up for the borrower!!!
The benefit for the lender is this:
each month you recieve interest AND principle. Once you’ve got 100 loans or so, you’re reinvesting interest and PRINCIPLE of the lendings into NEW loans. It’s a building process. Defaults, however, will kill you!
Keep in mind that we’ve got a shaky, downsizing, outsourcing economy. With job losses, people are in trouble. Let’s not forget drug use in the US, too. Also, people lie………don’t believe everything you read on a plea for help!
If you donate the money to the local church, though, it probably wouldn’t be spent any better.
October 19th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Update:
It’s now been one year since I first delved into prosper.com. The last couple months have seen too many loans headed North (I live in the South!) As soon as $100.00 accumulates in my account, I sent it home to my bank. From there, I’ll be reinvesting in my retirement account with Prudential. It will be much safer and I won’t have to invest those hours searching for prospective borrowers.
Good idea….just didn’t work.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
15 December 2007:
116 Active Loans
88 Current
2 Late
4 1 Month Late
3 3 Months Late
15 4+ Months Late (Too many not sold yet!)