Comments on: Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/ Common sense advice on money saving tips, how to get out of debt, high interest savings accounts, cd rates, money market accounts, mortgage rates, money management and more. Fri, 24 May 2013 04:47:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: rhbee http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/comment-page-1/#comment-86594 rhbee Wed, 16 May 2007 10:14:24 +0000 http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/#comment-86594 I wonder if that crisis of which you speak is not already upon us. I am reminded of an older sci fi novel by John Brunner called the Sheep Look Up. In it he poses a world that through its excesses has reached a point of ecologic and social failure. Wars rage, Greed rules, the systems of food and water fail. And yet, there are those who believe that there is a way to change all this. These rebels place their hope in the idea that reason and "the inherent good" in humankind will save the day. I am afraid that I lean towards your more pessimistic view. And so it goes. I wonder if that crisis of which you speak is not already upon us. I am reminded of an older sci fi novel by John Brunner called the Sheep Look Up. In it he poses a world that through its excesses has reached a point of ecologic and social failure. Wars rage, Greed rules, the systems of food and water fail. And yet, there are those who believe that there is a way to change all this. These rebels place their hope in the idea that reason and “the inherent good” in humankind will save the day.

I am afraid that I lean towards your more pessimistic view. And so it goes.

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]]> By: DC Portland http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/comment-page-1/#comment-86535 DC Portland Wed, 16 May 2007 00:18:28 +0000 http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/#comment-86535 As much as I respect Bill McKibben, like most environmentalists he focuses on technical solutions for global warming and ecological disaster. His approach falls under the "persuasive" category. What truly impairs us as a people (and as good managers of our personal finances) is our underlying psychology. "Greed is good" is not said much these days, but it sure is practiced. And it has become our lifestyle, our destiny. McKibben, like many persuasive environmentalists, comes across as an old moralist, day dreaming about the better days gone by. We need a breakthough, perhaps a disaster of epic proportions, to scare us from our complacent life of production, consumption, and affluence. The pessimist in me says that there may be no hope. After all, we have been hunters and gatherers for millions of years, during which time we needed to gather as much as possible because we did not know when the next drought would hit. This force is in our genes. We have only been ridiculously affluent (China included) for a couple hundred years. Our genes are ruling us - gather, take, consume, consume more, hoard, buy, ad nauseum. My optimistic side says that some day someone (or some movement) will really stike a chord in us enough that we will override our genes and we will change. We will truly understand the difference between a need and a want. And, strangely enough, we will be damn good financial managers because we won't be so tempted by the greed that overwhelms us. As much as I respect Bill McKibben, like most environmentalists he focuses on technical solutions for global warming and ecological disaster. His approach falls under the “persuasive” category. What truly impairs us as a people (and as good managers of our personal finances) is our underlying psychology. “Greed is good” is not said much these days, but it sure is practiced. And it has become our lifestyle, our destiny.

McKibben, like many persuasive environmentalists, comes across as an old moralist, day dreaming about the better days gone by. We need a breakthough, perhaps a disaster of epic proportions, to scare us from our complacent life of production, consumption, and affluence.

The pessimist in me says that there may be no hope. After all, we have been hunters and gatherers for millions of years, during which time we needed to gather as much as possible because we did not know when the next drought would hit. This force is in our genes. We have only been ridiculously affluent (China included) for a couple hundred years. Our genes are ruling us – gather, take, consume, consume more, hoard, buy, ad nauseum.

My optimistic side says that some day someone (or some movement) will really stike a chord in us enough that we will override our genes and we will change. We will truly understand the difference between a need and a want. And, strangely enough, we will be damn good financial managers because we won’t be so tempted by the greed that overwhelms us.

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]]> By: rhbee http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/comment-page-1/#comment-86339 rhbee Mon, 14 May 2007 19:01:24 +0000 http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/#comment-86339 I wonder what they think about us, the chinese workers at that store. Thousands upon thousands items waiting to be sent to the richest country in the world, and there they are eating rice cakes and learning about McDonald's and McMansions. I wonder what they think about us, the chinese workers at that store. Thousands upon thousands items waiting to be sent to the richest country in the world, and there they are eating rice cakes and learning about McDonald’s and McMansions.

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]]> By: plonkee http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/comment-page-1/#comment-86329 plonkee Mon, 14 May 2007 17:03:18 +0000 http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/#comment-86329 I thought that the part of the point was that once you get to the point where you have enough, then bigger isn't necessarily better. I'm all for increased efficiency and improved ways of doing things - including living, but I'm not a big fan of buying more and more stuff in an attempt to have a better life and there's no reason why anyone else in any other part of the world should be either. I thought that the part of the point was that once you get to the point where you have enough, then bigger isn’t necessarily better. I’m all for increased efficiency and improved ways of doing things – including living, but I’m not a big fan of buying more and more stuff in an attempt to have a better life and there’s no reason why anyone else in any other part of the world should be either.

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]]> By: rhbee http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/comment-page-1/#comment-86135 rhbee Sun, 13 May 2007 03:12:47 +0000 http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/#comment-86135 This just in from China at http://en.ce.cn/Industries/Financial-services/200705/13/t20070513_11333747.shtml According to the May 13th edition of China Economic Net those 30% savings have just gone stock market bubble. More than 9.1 Billion dollars was transferred to stock market accounts since Jan 1. It appears that just as your info seems to be lagging behind the reality. I still see streets filled with bikes, you still think they will remain savers. What I'd like to know is if there are any Chinese Persoanl Finance Blogs? Or will they too have to wait until the bubbles burst? This just in from China at

http://en.ce.cn/Industries/Financial-services/200705/13/t20070513_11333747.shtml

According to the May 13th edition of China Economic Net those 30% savings have just gone stock market bubble. More than 9.1 Billion dollars was transferred to stock market accounts since Jan 1. It appears that just as your info seems to be lagging behind the reality. I still see streets filled with bikes, you still think they will remain savers. What I’d like to know is if there are any Chinese Persoanl Finance Blogs? Or will they too have to wait until the bubbles burst?

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]]> By: Eric F. http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/comment-page-1/#comment-86125 Eric F. Sun, 13 May 2007 02:01:51 +0000 http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/#comment-86125 Hmmm... im a little bit skeptic here: Quote : It’s just that we — and I’m thinking of personal finance bloggers when I say this — haven’t yet shown them what to do next with all their abundance. Are you talking about people in China? Just to let you know that the average saving per capita in China is approximately 30% according to The Economist... Unless you were talking about someone else... And the question “What next?” hasn't been answered. Ive come up with my 101 things in 1001 days because of your inspiration and I personnaly wish to setup my own scholarship in durable urban planning (of course, Portland is a huge reference). But what will people do with their money? That would be a great post, wouldn't it? Hmmm… im a little bit skeptic here:
Quote :
It’s just that we — and I’m thinking of personal finance bloggers when I say this — haven’t yet shown them what to do next with all their abundance.
Are you talking about people in China? Just to let you know that the average saving per capita in China is approximately 30% according to The Economist… Unless you were talking about someone else…

And the question “What next?” hasn’t been answered. Ive come up with my 101 things in 1001 days because of your inspiration and I personnaly wish to setup my own scholarship in durable urban planning (of course, Portland is a huge reference). But what will people do with their money?

That would be a great post, wouldn’t it?

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]]> By: rhbee http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/comment-page-1/#comment-86081 rhbee Sat, 12 May 2007 16:35:36 +0000 http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/#comment-86081 Brad, you remind me of an old play by Peter Weiss entitled "The Persecution and Assassination of Marat as Performed by the Inmates of the Asylum of Charenton Under the Direction of the Marquis De Sade" (I've always loved saying that whole title) In the play, which takes place during the French Revolution, the main character, John Paul Marat, begins to list what really happens in a revolution. He says, we start off by saying throw everything out and begin over, but then little by little we realize that one person wants to keep his house, another wants her town, another wants their country, and suddenly we're right back where we started. That's the brief version. But if you read McKibben's books, this one especially, you'll see that he isn't recommending a revolution. He is asking the questions that may lead the have's to a way of using the economy rather than abusing it. For example, are any of those disposable cell phones, razors, plastic bags, etc., showing up in your ocean? Is this more making our life better? If the undeveloped nations, don't have these things yet then where are they coming from. US. Think about Europe and Latin America, are they going to slowly come around to the US way of dealing with smoking? See in some ways, we are already modeling a more sensible and durable future. He is suggesting, and I agree, we need to recognize the need and then continue to do more. That's what will make things get better. Brad, you remind me of an old play by Peter Weiss entitled “The Persecution and Assassination of Marat as Performed by the Inmates of the Asylum of Charenton Under the Direction of the Marquis De Sade” (I’ve always loved saying that whole title) In the play, which takes place during the French Revolution, the main character, John Paul Marat, begins to list what really happens in a revolution. He says, we start off by saying throw everything out and begin over, but then little by little we realize that one person wants to keep his house, another wants her town, another wants their country, and suddenly we’re right back where we started. That’s the brief version. But if you read McKibben’s books, this one especially, you’ll see that he isn’t recommending a revolution. He is asking the questions that may lead the have’s to a way of using the economy rather than abusing it. For example, are any of those disposable cell phones, razors, plastic bags, etc., showing up in your ocean? Is this more making our life better? If the undeveloped nations, don’t have these things yet then where are they coming from. US. Think about Europe and Latin America, are they going to slowly come around to the US way of dealing with smoking? See in some ways, we are already modeling a more sensible and durable future. He is suggesting, and I agree, we need to recognize the need and then continue to do more. That’s what will make things get better.

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]]> By: Brad http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/comment-page-1/#comment-86019 Brad Sat, 12 May 2007 04:58:54 +0000 http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/#comment-86019 It's easy to say that more isn't better when you have the quality of life and disposable income to make these sorts of selective pat-yourself-on-the-back choices. Would you rather not have the store that sells overpriced organic foods and faux-environmental shopping bags? Would you rather not have the PC and the website to post meandering articles? Would it be better if you had to walk to the store? Where's the cutoff point for when progress became a burden? Electricity? Automobiles? Cell phones? Internet access? It's very easy to take the "more" that you agree with, and then look down on others' excesses as if you know something they don't. It’s easy to say that more isn’t better when you have the quality of life and disposable income to make these sorts of selective pat-yourself-on-the-back choices.

Would you rather not have the store that sells overpriced organic foods and faux-environmental shopping bags? Would you rather not have the PC and the website to post meandering articles? Would it be better if you had to walk to the store?

Where’s the cutoff point for when progress became a burden? Electricity? Automobiles? Cell phones? Internet access? It’s very easy to take the “more” that you agree with, and then look down on others’ excesses as if you know something they don’t.

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]]> By: MG http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/comment-page-1/#comment-85967 MG Fri, 11 May 2007 19:19:30 +0000 http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/05/11/deep-economy-the-wealth-of-communities-and-the-durable-future/#comment-85967 Cool. We belong to a local natural foods co-op where the emphasis is on buying from local sources wherever possible. Even the bread. We buy only bio-degradable household cleaners which protects our health in the long term because we are not exposing ourselves to toxic fumes. Foods in their natural state ("whole foods") are not only better for us, but we are in our 50's and do not have any health problems that our contemporaries have because of buying organic/sustainable for at least 25 years. Living and shopping wisely is like a well-managed retirement fund: the money one spends on sensible eating and living translates to a huge savings on prescription drugs and supplements later in life. Quality supplements are very expensive (i.e.: carotec.com) and because we have been attentive to this, we have been able to narrow our purchases down to just a few: Co-Q10, Alpha Lipoic Acid, sawpalmetto, and Natren pro-biotics. This means more money going into our portfolios. The best thing is that we have raised our kids on a natural diet with healthy living home care. The first time I took them to a "regular" supermarket they saw M & M's displayed at the checkout- so funny: they did not even know what M & M's were - they thought they were little balls for playtime. "Look Mom, little balls!" LOL This health heritage they have is the best thing I could provide for them. :) Cool. We belong to a local natural foods
co-op where the emphasis is on buying from local sources wherever possible. Even the bread. We buy only bio-degradable household cleaners which protects our health in the long term because we are not exposing ourselves to toxic fumes. Foods in their natural state (“whole foods”) are not only better for us, but we are in our 50′s and do not have any health problems that our contemporaries have because of buying organic/sustainable for at least 25 years. Living and shopping wisely is like a well-managed retirement fund: the money one spends on sensible eating and living translates to a huge savings on prescription drugs and supplements later in life. Quality supplements are very expensive (i.e.: carotec.com) and because we have been attentive to this, we have been able to narrow our purchases down to just a few: Co-Q10, Alpha Lipoic Acid, sawpalmetto, and Natren pro-biotics. This means more money going into our portfolios. The best thing is that we have raised our kids on a natural diet with healthy living home care. The first time I took them to a “regular” supermarket they saw M & M’s displayed at the checkout- so funny: they did not even know what M & M’s were – they thought they were little balls for playtime. “Look Mom, little balls!” LOL
This health heritage they have is the best thing I could provide for them.

:)

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