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Daily Roundup: Cars, Cars, Cars Print
Monday, 2nd July 2007 (by J.D.)This article is about Cars, Spare Change
Alfonso Piñate has cars on the brain. He didn’t just forward one car-related article — he sent me three! And they’re all good. From Jalopnik, here’s an “Ask the Readers”-type question: “Your car recommendations for broke, flakazoid car-ignorant friends?” Author Murilee Martin says: “I always recommend the same three cars.” Those are, in order:
- 1987-1990 Nissan Sentra
- 1987-1990 Toyota Tercel
- 1984-1987 Honda Civic
But don’t stop there. This thread is loaded 101 reader comments on cheap beaters. Almost makes me want to trade down from my 2000 Ford Focus. Almost.
Speaking of old cars, Alfonso also pointed me to Beater Review, a site that praises the virtues of older trucks and cars. “Buying new is for suckers,” the site claims. “Any vehicle we review has to have a local market value, in good condition, of less than $5,000.”
Finally, U.S. News & World Report has a look at eight costly car features you don’t need. What are they?
- Automatic stick shift
- All-wheel drive
- CD changer
- Power folding seats
- Keyless ingition
- Xenon headlamps
- Dual-zone climate control
- Factory-installed navigation systems
I don’t know. Dual-zone climate control would prevent a lot of marital strife in our household.
July 2nd, 2007 at 2:09 am
2. All-wheel drive
The author obviously doesn’t live in Colorado… I’ve almost gotten stuck on several occasions WITH all-wheel drive (05 Chevy Equinox) - and I’m not talking on some back dirt road in the mountains - we’re talking in front of someone’s house in the Denver area (stupid winter storms)
July 2nd, 2007 at 2:09 am
I have a Subaru. Fifty five thousand miles, four years and all it has ever needed was regular maintenance. I can put up with the all wheel drive.
July 2nd, 2007 at 3:35 am
Those unnesasary auto features from the list is (even though still convenient) , is what drive up the prices for new cars.
I still have my old 1986 Honda Civic. I don’t use it for driving, that was my first car. I was testing the old girl out last week and she still works fine.
July 2nd, 2007 at 4:03 am
I downgraded from a 2005 Nissan 350Z to a 1993 Nissan Sentra to pay off my debt. Here’s the post I wrote about it:
http://sloaninvestments.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-did-i-do-it.html
I had great luck with the Sentra. It didn’t have power anything, but it was a 5 speed and sipped gas. All I did was change the oil and put gas in it every month or so. It had 160k miles on it, and I would still be driving it if I hadn’t sold it when I left for Iraq.
July 2nd, 2007 at 5:33 am
I’m going to argue with the Xenon headlights. If you often drive at night, especially in places that have lots of critters like deer that you have to watch out for, the increased performance of Xenon headlights is absolutely worth it. And they’re supposed to last the life of the car, which is a benefit if you’re planning on keeping the car for a long time.
July 2nd, 2007 at 5:54 am
LOL@ dual climate control = marriage saver. I can identify, but we’ve never had dual climate control, so I guess we’ve worked it out after 6 years of marriage and arguments. (Meaning that I take a blanket for car trips.)
I agree with the list!!! We bought our last new car in 2003 and are almost finished paying it off. We’ve since purchased my husband’s 2002 Mazda Protege for $5000 cash. We plan to drive both of them into the ground, and then sell ‘em for parts.
I have a whole new viewpoint on people who drive shiny new cars — can they REALLY afford that, or are they trying to keep up with the Joneses — as if the Joneses really care?
July 2nd, 2007 at 6:03 am
On the subject of “Buying new is for suckers”, I ran the numbers on that very subject last week for a Chrysler Sebring convertible (I have one — that I bought used! — from 1998). I did a Kelley Blue Book analysis of the car value from new to about 10 years old. The damage buying new can do to your net worth is kind of scary (since you can end up owing more than the car is worth if you take out a loan). You can see that analysis (or just look at the graph — pic == 1000 words) here:
How much for that new car aura?
July 2nd, 2007 at 6:33 am
Buying new can most definitely pay off, so while I agree that in general, buying new isn’t always the best option, to say it is never the best option is extremely short sighted.
In the fall of 2004, I bought a new 2005 Scion xB. Because this was still essentially the first production year, there weren’t any new cars. Counting on the Toyota quality, I bought new, in the high $15,000 after tax. In a couple months the car will be 3 full years old, and KBB has the trade in pricing at just over $12,000. The private party price is at $13,900.
I think the numbers speak for themselves. Just because high priced, low demand cars depreciate wildly in the first couple years, doesn’t mean buying a new car is always a horrible decision. Not only did I get a car with 1 mile on it, with a lifetime (dealer) powertrain warranty, and all the comforts of a new car, I got to own a brand new car without it being a financially irresponsible move.
July 2nd, 2007 at 6:36 am
@Nathan
I obviously meant that there weren’t any USED cars when I was looking to buy, not new…though new were hard to come by as well.
July 2nd, 2007 at 7:14 am
Yea, I dont get the AWD thing. Saying AWD is useless to someone with a steep driveway in Boston is like saying a backseat is useless to a family of 5
July 2nd, 2007 at 7:19 am
We came up with a simple solution to the dual climate control issue: just close the vents on the side of the person who’s too cold! My girlfriend can’t stand air conditioning and I love it, so I put it on and she just closes the vents on her side of the car, and we’re both happy. As long as she doesn’t have cold air blowing directly on her, she’s comfortable.
July 2nd, 2007 at 7:29 am
I agree with the AWD thing except I just gave away my 96 Saturn wagon and we now use my boyfriend’s 97 Subaru AWD wagon. I really think that thing will give 250-300k miles without any unusual repairs. We also still get 25-32 mpg as with the saturn. As an added bonus, the subaru has been known to haul pipe, lumber, and ladders on its roof rack. The thing is huge.
Another good vehicle for gas mileage appears to be the 1956 Ford 850 tractor. It gets 1 gallon per hour of reasonable use with a brush hog.
July 2nd, 2007 at 7:48 am
I’m not too sure about the Auto, it may seem expensive upfront, but alot of autos chips are programmed to drive most efficiently so you could get more MPG and save money on gas.
I’m not really sure on this though, not sure if the upfront cost saves over the lifetime of the car, or a certain driving style using a manual will make the equivialent efficiency.
Just a thought.
July 2nd, 2007 at 8:01 am
a) Almost everything I can think of makes you want to get rid of your Focus, so there’s no surprise here (your experience with K’s Civic and your Focus ought to be teaching you something, after all…), and
b) Dual climate control is nice, but what’s really needed is a dual climate/mode/speed control. So that SWMBO can have the air blowing lightly from the main vents and I can have the air blasting on the floor and windshield.
July 2nd, 2007 at 8:22 am
Dave,
Some cars have that. I don’t know about the current generation since I don’t buy new, but the previous generation BMW 7-series has full individual control (temperature, vent selection, and fan speed) for each front passenger. The 5-series only has individual temperature controls.
July 2nd, 2007 at 8:31 am
I find these “authoritative” lists about what we need and don’t to be kind of silly. In theory, all we “need” are four wheels and a motor. They may as well put on power locks, remote FOB, power windows, air conditioning…
In reality, some of the things listed are extravagant, others are pretty contextual. I’d love to have xenon lights where my parents live in a rural town. There is certainly no such thing as giving out more light than you can see or react to, especially in the pitch dark of upstate New York.
July 2nd, 2007 at 9:32 am
Like Nick, I **loved** my 1993 Nissan Sentra and would probably still be driving it, except that it was totalled in a rear-ender 4 years ago.
I hate my used 2001 Hyundai Santa Fe, which replaced it, but barring disaster, I’ll be driving it for at least 2 more years.
July 2nd, 2007 at 10:14 am
Michael: Do xenon lights help that much more than normal high-beams? I drive in LA and let me tell you, I want to kill every %^&#$(@^ that uses xenon lights. They blind every other driver on the road. (Granted, I suppose they are effective in clearing the traffic in front of your car).
July 2nd, 2007 at 10:16 am
“The Millionaire Next Door” book that is often mentioned on this site cites statistics that show people with high net worth (as opposed to just high income) usually buy well-researched USED cars. If it works for the rich…
July 2nd, 2007 at 10:38 am
We tend to buy our vehicles new, then drive them until they die of old age. Please note I sad “vehicle”, not “car”. If you are wanting to save money, depending on circumstances, you might want to consider a motorcycle. They are not for everyone, and even a die-hard like me still needs a car sometimes. For the money though, you get significant performance and economy advantages over a car. I live in southern California, where the weather allows me to ride year-round. I can lane-split (don’t try this until you have some experience - I’ve been riding for almost 30 years and close to 1/2 million miles) which saves me 15-30 minutes each way on my commute. (How much is 2-5 hours/week additional time worth to you?) Parking is almost always easier and sometimes free where a car would cost. Even my big, heavy, touring bike still gets high 30’s mpg in town, and mid 40’s mpg out on the road. Smaller bikes will be significantly cheaper and get much better mileage. If anyone is interested in learning to ride, please be sure to get some training - classes nationwide can be found through this site: http://www.msf-usa.org/
Dave
‘00 Honda motorcycle, 93k miles
‘89 Volvo, 168K miles
‘03 Honda Civic Hybrid, 92k miles
‘83 Delorean, 67k miles
July 2nd, 2007 at 11:09 am
teh, there are laws about xenon bulbs and how high they are allowed to be pointed. They should not be shining in your eyes. Most of the ones you see doing that are either (poorly installed) aftermarket xenons or the ultra-bright blue lights that are designed to look like xenons.
July 2nd, 2007 at 11:25 am
Properly installed Xenon lighting will not blind you. There are stricter rules in Europe that require lens cleaners and self-levelling systems that prevent misaimed lights, but here in the U.S. there are no such requirements so it’s much more common to see misaimed and improperly retrofitted lights, which cause the abovementioned blinding glare.
July 2nd, 2007 at 11:26 am
I got a year-old 2004 Hyundai with 15,000 miles on it for $6,300. The original owner has bought it for 10k and just couldn’t do the payments.
I’ll grant you it is the BASIC model - no A/C, no clock even - but I needed an inexpensive car, not the extras. I was living in Portland and am now in the bay area, and it’s quite possible to have a car without A/C - in each location there are about 5 sweaty commutes per year.
Consumer Reports is quite bullish on the newer Hyundais, as well.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:31 pm
There is NOTHING a new car gives you that a two year old car with low miles won’t give you except a boost to your ego, if you require it–and a hole in your pocketbook.
My experience with people who buy new cars is that they generally say they’ll drive them into the ground, but the reality is they simply *think* they’re going to drive them into the ground but still trade for another new car within a few years anyway.
There is almost no reason a car cannot last indefinitely if it’s taken care of. Why would it end up being run into the ground? (The way people treat these huge investments is very puzzling. People who are very proud of their frugality throw money away by neglecting their cars. People spend $20, $30, $40,000 on a car and would rather keep it outside while their old yearbooks, broken kids toys and other literal junk fills their garage.)
Beth is the savviest person in this thread so far.
New cars are fine if you can afford them, but please don’t fool yourself with the “drive them into the ground” argument.
Need an example? Let’s say you were going to buy a 2007 Honda Acoord EX with a V6 new. Edmunds says you can expect to pay about $26,000 for that car, with destination charges, yadda yadda. Looking at craigslist for my area, there’s a 2005 with 34,000 miles for an even $15,000. 34,000 miles is nothing in the lifespan of that car–certainly they won’t make any difference if you keep the car for, say, seven years.
My Vanguard fund has been returning 12% a year, and also adds in a dividend each year. Start by dumping our $11,000 difference into that fund, and allowing for a (way too modest) $200 a year dividend, we’ve lost over $26,000 at the end of seven years just because we had to have new instead of nearly new. It’s insane. No discussion of smart financial moves includes buying a brand new car.
As mentioned, that’s why the truly wealthy rarely if ever buy brand new cars. Let someone way less smart take that huge financial hit.
My wife’s car and mine are both 1998s, and seem new to us.
P.S. Xenon headlights are for dorks.
July 2nd, 2007 at 4:42 pm
I think people would be better served if they thought about what sort of transport they need.
Live in the city? You may be able to use public transport for a lot of what you do. A car would be good for some things, certainly, but you’d also want something that can take a small parking space and with a tight turn radius.
Live in the boonies? If “turn off the paved road” is in the directions to your house, then an SUV may be in your future.
July 2nd, 2007 at 6:59 pm
Roger,
“Drive them into the ground” means that at some point, the repairs are gonna cost more than the car is worth, and that’s when you trade it in.
now how long that takes depends on how much you drive, and how you drive.
i’ve seen it suggested that a 7 year old car (the US median age) requires just under $1k a year in maintenance costs, and a 10 year old car requires almost $1200.
Plus, repairs are a one-time expenditure of say $2k for a new transmisson, where a new car might be around that for a years’ worth of payments.
finally, old cars don’t tend to comply with modern safety and environmental regulations, so “driving cars into the ground” as opposed to forever makes sense.
July 3rd, 2007 at 6:28 am
Please remember that not all used cars are a good deal. You have to know what you are looking at, and make sure the car hasn’t been neglected, or you are going to be buying a problem car. Looking for a car with maintainence records, and paying a (trusted) mechanic to give it a through inspection will pay off over the next few years.
I don’t have a problem with people buying new cars and replacing them after two or three years. If nobody did that, we wouldn’t have nice two to three year old used cars with low miles to buy!
July 3rd, 2007 at 11:35 am
This entire thread, however, really only looks at the cost of the vehicle versus it’s utility in moving you from point a to point b. If that were the only legitimate criteria for purchasing a vehicle, then we’d all be driving Honda Civics and Toyota Corolla’s. The fact is that there are other reasons for buying a particular vehicle. Some of those reasons go beyond stroking your own ego.
For example: I drive a significant number of highway miles each day, often at a relatively high rate of speed. I do so alongside semi trucks and SUV’s driven by people who are, frankly, idiots and often driving at a higher rate of speed that me. I value a car that performs well enough to get me out of the way of these people. A 1995 Civic probably won’t cut the mustard here. Second, I also value having a certain minimum amount of mass in my vehicle in order to incorporate additional safety features not found in older, less upscale cars. Note that this does not mean that I want an SUV or something large enough to land a Chinook on both ends, but it does require more than a basic vehicle.
Second, you can also judge a vehicle’s cost by more than just the price of the vehicle. As Adam and beanspants1 point out, there are other costs associated with a vehicle. Those include the cost to operate the vehicle on a per mile basis. For example, compare a 1995 Civic against a 2006 Accord. Assume you drive 48,000 miles per year (as I do). Costs break down the following way:
‘06 Accord ‘95 Civic
Gas $5,333 $4,864
Oil Ch $278 $278
Ins $960 $700
Total: $6,571 $5,842
Difference: $729 per year
This assumes an equal purchase price, however. If I paid $22k for the Accord, versus $5k for the Civic and I assume I’ll keep the vehicle for 5 years, that means there’s a $3000 per year cost for the Accord, for a total of $3,729.00 to run the accord over and above the Civic.
Then the question is whether I put in more than $3k per year in repairs on the Civic and NO repairs on the Accord. If the answer is “no” then you come out money ahead on the Civic.
On the other hand, what’s the relative value of the damage you do not sustain in an accident for one vehicle versus another? What’s the value of not going deaf listening to 48,000 miles of road noise in a Civic v. an Accord. What’s the value of leather seats versus cloth, air conditioning v. not, etc.
Lastly, consider that there are people who are judged by others based upon their appearance. Sometimes this judgment can have business consequences. For example, I do not particularly want my clients seeing me drive a 1975 Honda Civic even though it might be the most frugal thing out there. Regardless of whether it’s money smart or not if they judge me by that then they may not stay as my client because they think I’m not successful enough to buy a “good” car. This is especially true for real estate agents, as an example. It’s like showing up to work in jeans every day. Are jeans cheaper than a suit? Absolutely. Am I treated with the same level of respect when I show up in jeans as opposed to in a suit? Absolutely not. And there are times where that’s very important. Granted, that’s not the case for everyone, but for those where it is, that’s an important consideration.
July 3rd, 2007 at 1:36 pm
I have never used the services of someone who drives an expensive car. When I see a real estate agent driving a new Mercedes, I don’t think “she’ll sell my house” I think “jeebus, someone is taking someone to the cleaners.”
Do you really think you’ll put $3K in repairs per year into a ‘95 Civic? Really? Realistically, the repairs on a well-cared for Civic are going to be a couple of hundred a year, if that. You’ll need a timing belt at some point. Anything above and beyond that doesn’t fit the bill of “well cared for.” I have a ten year old car made in England, for Pete’s sake, which is the equivalent of walking around with a “kick me” sign on, and it doesn’t need even a few hundred a year in repairs.
My comparison was between a brand new Accord and a two-year old one, anyway. You’re purposely exaggerating the differences between the new and used cars to try and make a point, which you’re failing to do. Can your average person on the street even tell the difference between a 2005 Accord and a 2007? I can’t at a glance, and I’m a car enthusiast. I’ve had people ask if my 1998 car is brand new, because it’s well cared for.
The only folks new cars impress are the people who have bought them. And that’s fine. I’m just saying there is no way to buy a new car and conclude you’ve made a savvy financial decision.
July 3rd, 2007 at 1:38 pm
I think it is smarter in the long run to buy a 2-3 year old low mileage car than a 10+ year old car anyway. With a relatively young, low-mileage car, it is likely still under warranty, and has less chance for missed general maintainence procedures. You may well KEEP it until it is 15+ years old, but at least then you know that it has been properly taken care of for that time, and hasn’t been driven roughly or abused in other ways. You skip the HUGE initial depreciation, and get a nearly new car.
Remember that most people don’t know enough about cars to know if your car is brand new or two years old, especially if there haven’t been any major exterior changes to that particular model of car in the years since it was built. You can still get the egoboo and status symbol of a fancy, shiny new car, while skipping the first two years of depreciation, if you put a little effort into keeping your car looking and running like new, and choose a car in good cosmetic and mechanical condition.
Here’s a key thing to remember about cars:
It’s usually cheaper to get stuff fixed as early as possible. When things on cars die, especially in the drivetrain, they tend to take other things with them, resulting in much more expensive repairs. Learn to recognize the signs of something starting to go wrong, and take it in. What you hesitate to pay $200 to fix now might turn into a $2000 repair if you try to put it off for six months. Fix that rusty radiator line now (even though you can’t afford it), because if it bursts, and you don’t pull over in time before your engine overheats and seizes, you REALLY won’t be able to afford a new engine. No, it didn’t happen to me, but it happened to one of my friends. He asked me to look at his car, and I TOLD him the rusty line might not even get him home, but he just HAD to drive home and back (880 miles total) before getting it fixed.
July 3rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Roger said: “Do you really think you’ll put $3K in repairs per year into a ‘95 Civic? Really? Realistically, the repairs on a well-cared for Civic are going to be a couple of hundred a year, if that.” I think the key here is “well-cared for”. This is one of the reasons I prefer to buy a new car instead of a used - excuse me, I meant “pre-owned”
- car. Unless I am buying the car from someone I trust, I do not know how well the car was cared for. Salesdroids are not in my “trust unquestionably” category! With my cars, I know for sure if the 20k servicing took place at 18k, or at 28k. I know when the oil was last changed. I know that the miles on the odometer are correct, and I know when the timing belt was last (if ever) changed. I understand that buying a car just off lease and only a year or so old will let someone else take the big hit in devaluation, but the peace of mind I get is worth it to me. Besides, I’ve seen too many people who treat their leased cars indifferently (at best!). After all, they don’t “own” them and will be getting rid of them next year, so why change the oil, worry about treating the engine/drivetrain gently, etc? My uncle was in the used-car business and we used to get our family cars through him when I was growing up. He’d pick out something in excellent shape and let us have it for cost. Without that kind of inside help, used cars CAN BE a risky gamble.
July 3rd, 2007 at 4:22 pm
i would say a 10 year old civic is gonna have 170-250k miles on it, so yes, i would say that the probability that it will require a $3k repair is higher than not.
again, if you have a $3k repair on a 10 year old car, that’s the equivelent of a $220+ a month in payments for an entire year on a $15k new car.
July 4th, 2007 at 5:21 am
3K is alot of repairs on a civic. I had a 93 civic until last year. When I got rid of it, it needed:
- a new fuel tank and fuel line
- suspension work — new shocks and struts
- muffler
- some body work
- new windsheild
All told, this was around $2,700 worth of work. In prior years, I had not spent more than $500 on maintenance total — including standard items like oil changes and brake work.
I ended up taking the car of off the road — it had 230K on it and the winters/salt were starting to take a toll on the body and frame.
I now drive a 2007 Honda Fit. I had originally planned to buy a 2-4 year old civic with low miles. I looked at quite a few and they were either over ‘low’ miles or over 4 years old or over priced. The residual values on civics is quite astonishing. In the end, it felt better to get a new Fit for roughly the same price as the used Civic.
Was this the best decision for a financial POV? Probably not but there is more to life than money…
July 4th, 2007 at 11:45 am
I’m not a car guy, so I hired the equivilent of a real estate agent to find my last two cars. He said that to get a really good used car, you need to spend around $7000-10,000, and that was five years ago. As such I’m a little skeptical about the average person’s ability to find a good car for under $5000. Maybe if you really know what to look for, but the only things I know are 1) buy Japanese and 2) low mileage.
I’ll echo what Billy said about 10-year-old cars. Back when I was a kid in the late 70s and early 80s, a 10-year-old car was basically dead. It would cost you more to maintain than it would to replace. Maybe that’s still true for American cars, but it sure isn’t for Japanese. My current car, a 92 Mazda 323, was 10 years old when I bought it. It has never needed $1000 in repairs in any year, and is usually more like $500. It’s now 15 years old and still running great. In fact, it runs better than my old car, a Tercel, which was 13 years old when I got it. If you extrapolate continued improvement, a 2005 or newer Honda or Toyota could well last 20-25 years without any major problems. Given that, you should make sure you really like the car you buy, because you could still be driving it when your third wife divorces you and your youngest kid goes off to college.
July 4th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Actually, Roger, my point in comparing the 06 Accord to the 95 Civic is that there are other issues involved in purchasing a car than just the financial issues. At best a newer car (I’m not advocating the purchase of a brand new car, but 1-2 years old is fine) might break even with an older car because of an increased efficiency, coverage by warranty or just general increases in reliability. That’s AT BEST. On average it is a losing bet because of the overall depreciation. The point is, however, that a pure financial efficiency is almost NEVER the sole consideration in the purchase of a car. There are other considerations that you CAN express in terms of money if you wanted to. In my example above, those things are worth (for me) the difference between 3k per year and the cost of repairs of the Civic.
After all, if financial efficiency was the sole criterion for the purchase of a car, Mercedes wouldn’t sell ANY cars, now would they? Nor would Ferrari, Lamborghini, Jaguar, BMW, Lexus…
July 5th, 2007 at 9:35 am
After all, if financial efficiency was the sole criterion for the purchase of a car, Mercedes wouldn’t sell ANY cars, now would they? Nor would Ferrari, Lamborghini, Jaguar, BMW, Lexus…
The financially savvy do not buy new versions of those vehicles. Talk about dumping money. A new Jag XJ6 is what, $80K? Wait two years and it will be $40K, wait four and it will be $25K. You’d have to have money to burn to buy a new luxury car. JD has told us he makes about $35K a year from his work on this website. That’s less than the depreciation on a big-buck car’s first year.
I have no problem with people buying new cars, I mean, it’s their money. But this fear of used cars, especially two year old used cars, is weird. It’s still going to be under warranty. Anything major that’s going to go wrong due to abuse is going to go wrong within that warranty period. Perhaps you’re worried about hidden cup-holder damage? I joke, but it’s this paranoia, encouraged by the car industry, that brings suckers into the dealerships.
Remember, most warranties are voided if regular servicing isn’t done, and if it isn’t done at the dealer. So the fears of it having missed a service can easily be parlayed by simply asking the dealer for its service history. Heck, a carfax (and no one buys a used car without a carfax, do they?) will tell you if it’s hit the dealer for servicing.
What exactly are you guys having done on your cars that costs $3500 a year? We did the timing belts on my wife’s Subaru 2.5 Outback this year and it cost $1100 at a fabulous shop. Had it needed head gaskets, it would have been $2500, and that’s a BIG job.
Anyway, this seems to border on a religious argument, so we should probably just agree to disagree. But next time you read “The Millionaire Next Door” dwell a bit on why none of the millionaires in the book buy new cars.
July 6th, 2007 at 7:53 am
I can see both sides of the argument. I have had cars I have driven into the ground, and cars that I have gotten rid of quickly. It all depends on what you are comfortable with. I personally do not like used cars because you never know how someone has driven it. Did they have a lead foot? Are the brakes going to die quickly (all shops do is look to see if something is left in their inspections).
I had a ‘94 Pontiac Grand Prix I got new when I graduated high school. I drove that thing until 2000 when I graduated college, it had 125K miles on it and the engine block cracked. Don’t know why but I was not about to repair that. Bought an 2001 Pontiac Aztek and loved that thing. I would have driven it into the ground as well had the AC condenser got rusted out (1k repair) and needed to replace the head gaskets (1.5k repair) on a car that was not worth much. I traded that in for an 05 Chevy Trailblazer. Biggest mistake I ever did. Great Car except I got a lemon. I lemon Lawed that puppy and got an 07 Nissan Murano. Love that car now - had it for 2 months.
My point is, on the Grand Prix, Aztek, and Trailblazer, all of them would check out by any 150 point inspection - I take really good care of my cars and do the maintenance. Everyone got past the dealers driving them and testing them out and I negotiated Top Dollar for them at trade in. Who every buys my used cars were in a surprise. Two engines with issues, that made no noise nor burned oil, but had no HP and got really crappy MPG. And a Car that under certain instances would shut itself off (which I happened to find myself in a lot).
Just look at it this way - there is a reason why people got rid of their 2 year old car .. not everyone is trying to keep up with the Jones .. you just have to be careful as to the history. My director has a “fleet” of cars as he likes to call it. He has like 7 of them. Each car was purchased with about 50k miles on them and under 7 grand. He has two kids, and a wife. They all drive the cars. He knew someone at a dealer that would give him “executive driven” cars, which were maintained, etc. Never had any issues.
It is all a matter of looking and being aware of what you are looking at and what your price points are.
July 6th, 2007 at 8:08 am
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July 6th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
After reading through all the comments, I think my eprspective is somewhat unique. Personally, I think I have several reasons to buy a “beater” - a $5,000 or less car that I can pay cash for - vs. anything that I have to finance, or that is new.
First is my personal credit. Though I’m working toward improving my overall credit rating, if I tried to get an auto loan right now I would get hammered on interest. I’ve done that once, and I’m not willing to do it again.
Second, I currently use public transportation to get to and from work, and that will not change since parking costs in the city are so prohibitive and I live 10 minutes from my job. Any car I buy would mostly be for weekends, errands, and leisure - I’d rarely go over 100 or even 50 miles in a week. For longer trips I’d either ride with a friend, or carpool.
Third, car theft rates in my city are quite high, which means insurance is very high as well. I have to factor insurance costs into my decision, and a less desirable/older car will cost me a lot less monthly in insurance than a car that’s only 2 or 3 years old.
July 6th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
D’oh! I meant “rent”, not “carpool”.
July 7th, 2007 at 12:52 am
[...] mentioned a post on Jalopnik talking about the best cheap beater car for non-car folks. This caught my eye because [...]
July 7th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
WOW! After reading each of those comments, I think I am leaving more educated, confused,… and happier! I will still be driving my 1999 Chevy Malibu with 170K miles. Got it with 50K miles on it in 2001. I paid it off last year and I would like to ride it for some time. When I need to buy a new car, I will come back to this post and read the comments all over again!
Nice post, J.D.!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:24 am
Man, what a great post! Like other posters I’d like to point out that AWD is a climate thing. It doesn’t really help much _while driving_ but it certainly helps getting you going.
What really helps driving in snow is to have as light a car as possible (not counting two or three-wheeled vehicles). The heavier the car, the more likely it is to skid while turning and the longer the stopping distance. Snow magnifies this effect tenfold. Therefore; big, heavy SUVs suck in snow. No one wants to believe it (because they want a convenient excuse to own one) but it is true. Light SUVs are great though.
Also, regarding the Xenon headlamps: They’re not “worth it” unless you’re driving a hybrid or electric vehicle. Why? They add something like $2000 to the price of a car but their lighting performance is only marginally better than incandescent bulbs. In fact, I don’t think you can buy a hybrid without HID bulbs.
Why are they worth it for hybrids? In a hybrid weight and electrical power are at a premium. Xenon bulbs are both lighter and are considerably more power-efficient than incandescents. This added efficiency allows hybrids like the Toyota Prius to include a ~half-sized (28Ah, designed with reduced weight in mind), lead-acid battery under the hood which is considerably lighter than a normal car battery (~45Ah).
Now I’d like to add a final note about factory-installed navigation systems: They’re crap. A $300 nav system you can buy from your local electronics store will be far superior and you can take it with you to your next car or replace it with a new one at your leisure. You can’t do these things with an in-build nav.
-Riskable
http://riskable.com
“It is often easier to invent a use for a thing than to neglect its purchase.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:57 am
I just bought an Acura Legend for 5K..it has 130K on it and the original price was 40K..
I am hoping to drive this for another 100K…