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This is a guest-post from my wife.
Amanda recently sent J.D. an e-mail looking for advice about gift-giving:
My husband and I have made huge lifestyle changes since our son was born with congenital heart disease four years ago. He’s had five open-heart-surgeries, and we’ve had some killer medical bills. My husband stays home with both of our kids to help prevent Liam from getting sick too often, so we’ve gone down to one income, one car, basic cable, and a really aggressive budget.
One of our worst budget breakers however is gifts. I have eleven nieces and nephews, two kids, etc. At Christmas we’ve convinced both sides to just do a name exchange and then we only have to buy for two nieces/nephews on either side, which helps and we’ve just outright stopped exchanging gifts with our brothers & sisters, but there are still our parents, his grandparents, kids of friends who have birthday parties, and graduations, weddings, and baby showers!
We actually do plan most of these things into discretionary spending since we know when people have birthdays, but it’s always those gotchas like weddings and new babies (and we didn’t pre-think graduations with this year’s planning).
Could you offer any advice on fitting generosity and gift giving into a frugal budget? No one wants to be a grinch, but it really adds up some months. Sometimes, it’s half of our discretionary spending just to get small gifts (we only spend $10-15/kid!).
Ah, Amanda, I hear you! Gifts can be a budgeter’s downfall! Many of us readily accept our own sacrifices in the name of being frugal, but don’t want to seem “cheap” when it comes to giving gifts to others. I’ve struggled with both sides of this issue.
One side of me likes choosing and giving gifts, likes having those gifts appreciated, likes receiving gifts in return. But the other side opposes the commercialism and expectations that accompany holidays and occasions. Too often, hastily-purchased gifts can seem like a substitute for the spare time and energy we don’t have to make a gift meaningful. These gifts can be merely an obligation, which is no fun for either giver or recipient.
For big family gift-oriented occasions like Christmas (Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, etc), you must have “The Talk”. In some families, money is a difficult subject, but your options are either to continue spending more than you want on presents, or to mystify everyone when you cut them off cold turkey. A good way to start is to explain your budget goals, as in, “We’re starting to save for the kids’ education funds,” “…to buy a house,” “to be able to afford to live on one salary,” “pay off the credit cards” or something like that — just make sure you’re being honest.
Whatever you do, don’t insist that everyone stop giving gifts to you (or your kids). You have the right to stop giving gifts, but for many people, being generous with presents is a true pleasure and you should avoid depriving them of that pleasure. It may seem wrong to accept without giving, but you can give back in other ways. Of course, your relatives and friends may be relieved at the prospect of the never-ending gift-exchange ending — maybe they were just too shy to bring it up.
If you don’t want to stop all gifts, here are some ideas to cut costs.
Draw names. As Amanda does, this can allow you to focus on one or two recipients instead of the whole clan. There are various arrangements. Some families write their name and a gift suggestion or two on a slip of paper. In some systems, adults pick an adult and each kid gives to a kid (with adult help as needed). Or, if everyone is gathering together, each person can bring one gift (marked as adult or child) and you can do a sort of “Yankee swap” exchange where unwrapped presents can be stolen or traded until everyone ends up with someone.
Be creative. On J.D.’s side of the family, we have been doing $5 gifts for several years. Everyone (7 adults, 4 kids) buys a $5 (or under) gift for everyone else. (This was my sister-in-law’s idea.) J.D.’s mother asked to be excepted — she loves piling gifts on everyone and exercises her grandmotherly rights to do so. The $5 limit has forced us to be bargain hunters and the results are often both surprising and hilarious. We found a practically new set of drafting pens for a brother’s gift: $80 new, marked as $10 at a garage sale but we bargained it down to five!
Emphasize the experience. Some people have more time than money. If you fit in that category, you can use it to your advantage for all sorts of occasions. Do friends have a new baby? Deliver dinner to the new parents, then stay to hold the baby while they eat the meal. Clean up afterwards, of course. Nieces and nephews? For that special occasion, invite them to join your family for camping, a hike, miniature golf — whatever your family does for fun. You’ll all get to know each other better, too. Parents and grandparents often would rather have you spend time than money on them, as well. Invite them over for brunch, or go feed the ducks at the park, or hear a free concert together.
Don’t turn your nose up at used. Aren’t we silly Americans! We talk about how great recycling is but we want everything we get to be new, new, new! It’s all about mindset. For kids’ toys, as long as they’re in safe condition, the fact that they’re “pre-owned” means little to a child — unless non-stop commercialism has already gotten to them! J.D. and I found two wooden sleds set out for the trash pickup in a ritzy neighborhood. After swallowing our hesitation, we grabbed them. With a cleaning and a few minor repairs, they were good to go — and looked great under the Christmas tree. Keep your eyes open all year for bargains, or arrange a toy exchange or toy hand-me-down system with friends and neighbors. Get to know people’s tastes and decorating styles so you can choose gifts they will appreciate.
Kids love the dollar store. I know, I know — everything’s made in foreign countries by underpaid workers. But seriously, if you are spending more than $3 for a kid’s birthday party gift, you need to visit a dollar store. The kids I know are fascinated by dollar store stuff until age 6 or 7. The parents may turn up their noses, but what kid wouldn’t love growing giant lizards or sharks (600% growth — just soak ‘em in water!), red-white-and-blue glow necklaces, or a hundred fuzzy animal stickers?
Agree that gifts are only for the kids. Not having kids myself, I wouldn’t vote for this option, but I know many families like it. I think a better choice if you’re going to do this is to have adults buy small gifts for the kids ($5-10), and let kids make homemade gifts for the adults. I think this gets kids to think about giving as well as receiving.
Use homemade gifts. I’m a big fan for using the homemade gift for most every occasion. Special birthdays get a bouquet of garden flowers in a mason jar. Or, I take the time to write a sincere note in a beautiful card. If someone’s a fan of sweets, I’ll whip up a batch of cookies. If the season’s right, I might present them with fresh berries or a holly and cedar swag. The cost for all these gifts is minimal, but the gesture is still meaningful.
Mass produce. Last year, English Major offered a great tip about gift-giving ideas. You can save lots of dough by the assembly line approach. Pick a gift that will be appropriate for your list of recipients and buy craft items, ingredients, or components in bulk. Before you start, figure out how many gifts you’ll need and the cost per assembled gift. Check the figures against your budget. To maximize this idea, choose an idea that still allows for some personalization, say in the color or style of gift.
Just speak up. At my workplace, the envelope is constantly being passed for one event or another. The loss of a parent, a new baby, a retirement, etc. The flowers or gifts purchased with the collected cash may very well be much appreciated. But if your budget prevents you from chipping in, instead write a heartfelt note or tell the person face-to-face. A verbal expression of sympathy or support may be just what they need.
Shrug it off. Unfortunately, some people are all about the goods. If the people in your life aren’t going to appreciate or adjust to your frugal mindset, you have a choice to make. Keep spending to keep up with the Joneses, or go your own way and hold your head high. Find ways to show you care that don’t just involve handing over your debit card. Give when you can; give what you want to.
The side benefit of implementing any of these ideas is that it moves the whole concept of giving gifts back to thoughtfulness, effort, and individual creativity, rather than the focus on prices and packaging. Think of it as one small chink in the great wall of marketing and consumerism!
These are just some thoughts on the topic to get the discussion rolling. I’m sure there are scores of creative solutions out there.



July 8th, 2007 at 5:30 am
Great post! One of my favorite gifts to give to coworkers at Christmas time is to find a great recipe for a spiced tea or hot chocolate mix. I can make a HUGE batch of this for under $10, then put it in pretty canning jars and tie a ribbon around them. It ends up being very cute, and most people love to keep the mix at their desk because you just have to add water.
For baby showers or things like that, I always offer to bake the cake. I can make a mean cake — it won’t be professionally decorated, but it will look nice and be delicious. Most of the time, the hostesses appreciate not having to spend upwards of $25 on cake — they can put that money toward a gift.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:53 am
I’m somewhat disenchanted with gifts in general. I know that everybody likes giving gifts; in fact, every adult I know seems to like giving gifts more than receiving them. But the problem lies in finding gifts that the receiver will actually use. Isn’t that the most basic standard that we have for the things that we buy for ourselves?
I know that just about every year I get something that I never end up using, and for awhile I thought that was just me. Then I started asking people about the gifts that I had given them 3, 6, or 12 months earlier, and found that they weren’t getting used, either. This seems to be the dirty secret about gifts — giving gifts is an emotional lift for the giver, but usually leads to pointless clutter for the receiver.
I think reducing the number of gifts you give and receive is a laudable goal, whether you’re on a tight budget or not.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:22 am
In my family we give gifts only at the holidays, not for birthdays or other occasions. For birthdays we just send cards, and that seems fine, even for my young nieces.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:25 am
Thanks for this!
I’m SO SICK of feeling obligated to match the monetary value of gifts sent to me.
With some friends the “cost free” option works well. One year for christmas my college friends and I (we’re all in our 40s now), drew names and exchanged “craptacular crafts”. these were all handmade and needed to cost less than 5$ for materials. We had a ball, exchanged photos of each others gifts.
A few friends will not go for the homemade. With them, rather than focussing on each holiday, I pick up something on sale through out the year and give it right away rather than waiting for a holiday or birthday. This way they feel like they DO get gifts from me, just not always at the expected time.
A very few people just don’t appreciate any ofit. I have to just take a deep breath and give a gift that I want to give them, and ignore their obnixious response.
Thanks again for this post. I think anyone trying to get out of the consumer-trap for any reason needs to think through the gift issues.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:42 am
This is a tough one, gift giving is such a part of our culture.
In my family, we really only give gifts to the kids(who at this point are past gifts and now like $). We do give consumable gifts at the holidays to adults.
My college friends do a $20 gift exchange, where we get together for brunch draw numbers and the lowest number gets to pick a gift (its wrapped so you don’t know what you are getting) and then the next person can pick a wrapped gift or steal a gift that has already been opened (a gift can only be stolen 3 times). The gift exchange is super fun which much drinking and ’stealing’.
Otherwise, the rest of the year we don’t really give gifts but if I see something perfect for someone then I buy it and send it in the middle of the year.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:50 am
I agree with pretty much everything that’s been posted. I really would be shocked if your parents and grandparents really care about getting gifts from you. We do buy gifts for our parents, because we can afford it and I enjoy it, but if we couldn’t I have no dobut that neither my parents nor my in-laws would have any issue with it. Nieces and nephews can be a bit tougher. I would just say be creative. Instead of buying them something take them to the beach or some other low-cost activity. There’s no doubt that kids may feel cheated now if you can’t buy them a gift. Hopefully their parents will explain the situation to them and as they grow I can’t imagine they would continue to hold it against you.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:21 am
It is going to be tough the first or second time you cut down, the third time will be a lot easier. Before you know it, you will be wondering why you waited so long to cut down on this expenditure! Thing is, you are not doing it to be mean or cheap. You are being realistic about your situation. In fact, I would feel horrible if I received a gift from you considering all you are going through. I assume you have GOOD FRIENDS OR RELATIVES WHO SHOULD UNDERSTAND YOUR SITUATION WITHOUT YOU EXPLAINING YOURSELF. (Of course, explaining yourself may make it easier on some of them.)
July 8th, 2007 at 8:24 am
I love finding stuff at T.J.Maxx. I buy clothes there for my nieces, and this is brand new designer stuff, too. I found a velour BCBG jumpsuit for my 6-yr-old niece that was originally $200 (yeah, I know that’s really insane) marked down to $25. I’d like to get the spending per person even lower than $25 this year, though. But it really was a cute outfit.
Everyone thinks when I buy Ralph Lauren or DKNY baby clothes that I’m spending a fortune, but it’s actually really cheap when you know where to find it. I also found a Juicy Couture blazer that was once $250 marked down to $20. I really love that store!
July 8th, 2007 at 8:40 am
Along with gift giving, how about greeting cards? They can be very expensive! In my immediate family, it is considered rude not to be acknowledged on birthdays, Mother’s Day and Father’s Day, anniversaries, and holidays? It’s draining me. I vowed that after the July birthdays are over, I am cutting back and budgeting gifts. My mother took that as an insult. She takes it as an insult when I don’t buy my parents an anniversary present! Your tips were helpful and will start putting them into motion! I have one tip — split the cost of a birthday gift with someone. For example, two siblings split the cost of a parent’s birthday gift.
July 8th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Great article! I’ve been thinking for a few years of introducing a one gift per person rule in my family, but I don’t know how to bring it up. I’m not sure if my parents (really my mother) would go for it. I think it’s silly to buy multiple gifts for grown children, and it’s hard for me to lug all that stuff home since my family lives in another province. Ugh. I also don’t really want to buy birthday gifts for people. I never know what to buy and often do it out of obligation more than anything. Is it rude to not buy a gift when someone has given you one earlier in the year? I think with some friends it is definitely an expectation. There are other ways to show you care.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:27 am
A loving and inspiring poem/note from a friend was THE most cherished (and remembered) gift we got when our first daughter was born. Our friend wrote welcoming her to the world and telling her about some of the most precious moments she would experience in life and all that lay before her.
Also commercial greeting cards are a huge stealth budget breaker, now easily $3-$6 bucks each!
July 8th, 2007 at 10:28 am
It drives me nuts when people who are in debt give us extravagant gifts. Not only do they pay the price of the gifts, they pay interest on the cost of them every month. Plus, the things are not anything we want or need. We are obligated to give them something similar back, so in effect we are buying ourselves something we don’t want or need.
I like white elephant gift exchanges, where you give something that is around your house that you don’t need. Dollar store gifts exchanges are fun too. Handmade gifts are the best.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:29 am
One other thought is that even the homemade gifts (like any DIY) can be budget breakers if you could have “sold” the time you spent, say, working freelance or doing other paid work. So you have to strike a balance and not be pennywise/pound foolish.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Wedding, Graduations, New Babies = Cash.
Don’t buy gifts for these occasions. Buy a card if you must, but just give cash. The new couple doesn’t *really* want that china (as will come out when they have to spend their money on it). The new grad can use that for partying or for paying off the bills that most people rack up in their final term, or to get started with adulthood. And babies are basically paper shredders for money: the new parents will use that money no problem.
Even if the people “don’t need the money”, everyone can use a little extra during those life events.
For people who are young, buy municipal bonds (if you’re really spending a lot on them), TIPS bonds, EE Savings bonds (which sell for as little as $25 bucks) etc. The cool thing about this is, while it may be worth $25 bucks now, it will be worth much more then that over the course of its life, and some of the bonds have a feature that incentivises not selling for a few years. And yes, the bond market stinks, but bonds are a simple investment without a lot of volatility, which means the person isn’t going to start having worries about “their stock” in the middle of the night because they’re not a sophisticated investor.
If you must give a gift, one of the *coolest* gifts you can give someone who’s just graduating high school or college is a copy of Microsoft Money and a good personal finance book.
–Michael
EE Savings bonds: http://www.savingsbonds.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ebonds/res_e_bonds.htm
July 8th, 2007 at 11:17 am
The whole China products thing is really overblown, but if you’re buying things for little children it doesn’t hurt to be a little prudent. It seems like dollar stores are slightly riskier places with respect to hazardous products (toothpaste, right?), so I would exercise a little caution and make sure things you’re buying at the dollar store don’t have obvious problems like chipping paint or something.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Great article. My only concern is the suggestion to buy toys at the dollar store. Not only are they usually produced by underpaid workers, as you mention, but they are generally not manufactured according to American safety standards and many are downright dangerous (choking hazards, toxic ingredients, &c.). Buy carefully!
July 8th, 2007 at 11:23 am
Excellent post. Personally, I enjoy giving (and receiving) the gift of TIME. My mom created a family holiday tradition years ago and dubbed it “The Gift”. She would invite family and friends to make simple homemade gifts. We’d car-pool to the homeless shelters, hospice, nursing homes, hospitals; sing Christmas carols with the residents, and spend some one-on-one time with those that craved conversation and company. Afterwards, we’d return to my mom’s house for eggnog and goodies. It was an annual tradition that felt like a gift for all of us.
My mom recently passed away. I intend to keep her tradition alive- sharing “The Gift” with my daughter, friends, and community.
~Millionaire Mommy Next Door
July 8th, 2007 at 11:31 am
In regards to cards: Rather than send expensive and mass-produced greetings, I prefer to make our own personalized ones. My daughter loves to fingerpaint, and I love photography, so we often use these mediums. I think that our card recipients appreciate our homemade ones more than those we’d buy at the grocery store…
~Millionaire Mommy Next Door
July 8th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
For greeting cards, Trader Joe’s is a great place. The cards are only 99 cents, they have great images and messages, and they’re made for many occasions. They don’t look or feel like cheap cards. The selection changes all the time, though, so if you find one you really like, buy them up. Chances are you won’t find them again.
July 8th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Excellent post. We’ve done many of the aforementioned suggestions since we began our debt-payoff plan two years ago, most notably: don’t spend more than $5 for the nieces/nephews, and we usually hit paydirt at the dollar store; make gifts - we made beaded Xmas ornaments that some of our friends and family now treasure; only buy gifts for the children and those without children. One important thing that’s been very helpful to us: we budget for and set aside $25 each month for gifts, which goes into an envelope. That way, we usually have money set aside for those surprise baby and wedding showers. This has taken a lot of the stress, financial hangover and resentment out of holidays and birthdays, and we now focus on creative ways to please others. I second April’s suggestion of shopping for gifts at TJMaxx. I just spent less than $40 on great wedding and shower gifts (3 picture frames, a platter and set of dish towels). Forget the overpriced registry items, go for TJMaxx!! Also, try homemade CD mixes for those with whom you share similar music tastes. In response to Michael’s comment about cash being the best gift: frankly, that’s not very practical for those of us on a tight budget, although I agree it’s nice. I feel really cheap giving someone $15 for a wedding gift, especially when I can give them a nicely wrapped, attractive (and entirely useful) platter I picked up at TJMaxx for $9.99.
July 8th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
I’m in debt… and I’ve decided I just don’t give gifts. I try to for big accomplishments - like if someone does extraordinarily well on an exam, or if they accomplish something wonderful. Like most recently my nephew (same age as me) finished his ticket for his electrical journeyman… so I sent him a bouquet of flowers as congrats. I never send him a birthday card, or present.
I don’t understand what the big deal is with fessing up that you are broke, and that someone else’s gifts aren’t on your priority list. I don’t scoff at anyone for saving for a downpayment for a house, why should anyone think ill of me for trying to pay off my student loan(s)?
this reminds me of a great ani difranco song, lyrics as:
“seems like everyone’s an actor
or they’re an actor’s best friend
i wonder what was wrong
to begin with
that they should all have to pretend
we lose sight of everything
when we have to keep
checking our backs
i think we should all just smile,
come clean and relax ”
i think that gets to the crux: i have started to refuse to pretend to be something I’m not. I’m not upper class, I don’t have a heap of money, and I can’t afford to do alot of things that are ’status quo’. My friends understand that, for the most part. If they don’t, then we usually don’t stay very good friends for very long.
And as for relatives: all my rellies know that we are there when times are tough. That is what counts, I think.
July 8th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Great blog! Gift-giving is a serious challenge. I have a relative (older adult) who insists that she deserves to be given lots of gifts — she is the wrench in the works when it comes to holidays. Last year, I knitted her a special pair of socks to try to save money — she didn’t even thank me and just tossed them aside. But I think we need to have “The Talk.”
One idea I have suggested is a $15 per person limit — that way, perhaps we could get our holdout 15 one-dollar gifts and she could still be satisfied.
I also look all year for new or like-new gifts at thrift stores, witty (and cheap) items that make a fun package to open in the exchange, great deals like $4 clearance games that could fit nieces & nephews or birthday parties, and ideas to make gifts especially in mass production.
We no longer exchange gifts with most of our relatives — just close family, the children and those we see in person.
And to pay for all that, we too budget about $30 a month so we have some cushion for a surprise occasion.
July 8th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
For greeting cards, I just hand some crayons or fingerpaints to my kidlet. No one’s going to look down on that kind of card.
I don’t buy kids’ gifts at the dollar store, as they are shoddily made, end up in the landfill quickly, and may include toxins and pesticides, due to container ship and foreign country standards.
If you are looking to give a gift to parents, I heartily recommend offering to babysit. Where I live, it is $15/hr with a minimum four hour booking for a regular babysitter! So it costs $60 to go out…we just don’t go! My sister, who earns a very good living, has given us the gift of two evenings of babysitting. This is worth more than $120 to us, not to mention we feel our child is safe with her.
July 8th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
I’m pretty up-front with new friends that I only give gifts to my immediate family. I figure that way they won’t be too shocked if they give me something and I just give them a thank you in reply. Though I *do* sometimes take friends out to dinner for their birthdays.
Suggestions I’ve tried or want to try:
1. when it’s my birthday I usually just get people together for beer and socializing, and specify that I don’t want any gifts. One year I asked for invitations to home-made dinners and that went over well - those who were so moved, issued invitations, and I really enjoyed making my birthday last a few months longer than usual.
2. For older kids, who want to have a party, I’ve heard of making it a book or game exchange - everyone brings one, and leaves with another. I think it would work well for adults too.
3. my family (parents & siblings) doesn’t do cash or gift cards but we DO exchange gift requests, and we keep the items on the list fairly low in price.
July 8th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
I mostly lurk here, but this post really hit home. I’m getting married for the second time in less than a month. A big stress for me isn’t all the stuff that you “have” to do before hand–it was how do I tell well meaning people that I don’t want gifts.
There’s such a “traditional” taboo about this whole thing. Really though, we don’t need anything. It was such a strain trying to figure out the ettiquette of saying this. Finally I put up a website via the idofoundation that offers no guest registry but does offer some charities they can donate to if they have to give something.
To me, from someone who is in a postition where I know folks will want to give gifts, I’d rather have their presence and their goodwill than anything else purchased. Ironically it’s one of the more stressful points for me of the whole wedding thing!
I guess the point is, we need to stop thinking that other people expect or WANT gifts. I think we all like to be thought of and wished well but someone talked about a poem and others have mentioned the homemade cards. I even like e-cards because those I don’t have to recycle!
July 8th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Also, I think we should all do our part to STOP the insanity of gift giving around weddings. It used to be that most people had modest weddings and people gave a modest gift at the wedding. Now it can extend to gifts for engagement parties, multiple showers, the bachelor and bachelorette parties, the wedding, and the list goes on and on. I think it’s embarrassing. And now people have gotten as crude as just asking for cash. The spirit of giving and receiving with gratitude (versus expectation) has been largely lost. It’s sad.
When I get married, I will do my part by not having a registry and asking people not to give gifts. If they insist, I will direct them to making a donation to a nonprofit (though I will not expect this of anyone, either). I’m an adult. I live on my own already. I do not need to go to a home store and pick out a massive list of stuff that I then demand my friends and family buy for me. As the host of my wedding, I am asking my friends and family to join me in blessing my union - I am not asking them to furnish a new home.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
@kristina - my wife and I went this route, and I was amazed at how much resistance there was [to not registering, requesting no gifts]. Many people think they must give a gift, and want it to be easy, and essentially thoughtless - even after you’ve told them explicitly that you want and need nothing. I’ve stopped giving gifts entirely, but I make and send cards with real messages printed inside, not just a note. A few people have called me on it, and it usually ends in a productive conversation. Some people will always be miffed, though, but unless they approach me, it’s their problem to deal with.
I just found a quote that I like for this occasion: In being your true self, you “let people feel the weight of you, and let them deal with it.”
July 8th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
J.D. and Wife,
One of the reasons I read this blog everyday is because you emphasize the human side of money more than the numbers side of money.
That is something most people, myself included (blog and personal life), need to work on. Thank you.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Great post! It is so fitting that the wife of JD’s personal finance blog be a great personal finance article writer!
July 8th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
My wife and I are trying to get in to giving experiences and investments to each other. For our anniversary we treated each other to a mini-vacation that envolved some biking and exploring. It was great. We got to reconnect. I feel that was more valuable than just giving her jewlery or something else that would sit and accumulate.
July 9th, 2007 at 4:49 am
@trb - I’m not (and never have been) married, but I’ve been to a few weddings and I always want to give a gift. I don’t like giving money because I always have a small budget and I don’t want to look cheap (I don’t really enjoy giving money anyway).
I prefer to give something that the couple want and find gift regsitries very helpful especially if I am fond of the couple but don’t know their personal tastes very well.
For general giving I also like TJ Maxx (called TK Maxx over here). Stuff is usually a bargain and people get a better quality of gift than they would normally.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:42 am
My extended family does a “Yankee Swap” with a pricetag of $15-$25 dollars each. And participation is optional.
So, not only do we get a gift (and a chance to buy one for someone), we get the fun of the swap.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:49 am
I AM getting married in 9 months, and honestly, I would prefer cash if someone is going to get us something, but only because I have no room to store anything right now and I have this fear of accumulating “stuff.” That said, I would never, ever suggest that people give us cash out loud or in writing. I was also a little against the whole registry thing, but I have had such a hard time convincing family members that I’m going to give in and just do it. I’m a pretty low-key bride, and it’s not worth the hassle of fighting people on this one.
That said, I don’t think registries are by any means TELLING people what to buy you. They just offer suggestions, and I have found them really helpful as a guest who sometimes doesn’t know what people need. I’d rather spend my money on something I know they want.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:32 am
I pretty much stopped gift-giving to any and everyone. Even my parents. I give a card and that’s about it. My reasoning, especially with my parents around the holidays is that I’m an adult. If I need anything I can buy it myself. They aren’t rich and have major medical bills. I’d rather they save whatever money they would have spent on me and use it to pay a bill, or better yet, gift themselves. Another idea? Instead of the family giving gifts, wouldn’t it be nice if, as a group, we pooled our money to fly in a family member for the holiday who is far from us? My family and friends are actually relieved by my stance. They don’t have to get me anything, I don’t have to get them anything.
This doesn’t mean I don’t give gifts at all. It could be a random day, for no reason, and I’ll just feel compelled to give a gift to someone. Nothing crazy, just something that says I was thinking about them.
I’d rather have the companionship and presence of my family and friends than gifts.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:35 am
@plonkee: You might like giving a gift. But if you don’t keep in mind what the couple needs, you’re just assuaging your own ego, not helping them.
When trying to plan a registry, especially if you realize china is not something you need and pass on it, you have to put out a *large* amount of effort finding 5-25 dollar items you “want” so small gift givers aren’t frustrated. This just wasn’t our experience, this was some frustration we found out 3 of our married couple friends also shared. We end up putting a list of small items we might someday want or need, then end up throwing away or storing for years.
Give your friends a real gift, that of the item they’d actually use, the money, and take the risk that they’ll think you cheap.
And by the way, every bride and groom knows exactly how much every item costs on the registry. Everyone does. You’re not hiding your “cheapness”, you’re just making the bride and groom indulge your vanity. If they really need the item, and no one gets it, then your gift of money will be (possibly) spent on it. However if it was just a cheap item put there so “Young friends can afford something”, you just did them a huge favor.
Ask one of the more recent married couples you know and bought gifts for which one they’d have liked better: The gift or the same amount of cash. You’ll see who you’re really making happy by gift buying is you, and you’re not helping out the new couple as much as simply dropping cash in the envelope would.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:37 am
For her birthday last year, my mother (in her early 70s) asked for 2 hours of time from my sister and me, to be spent identifying and organizing her loose photographs and sticking them in albums. We had so much fun that we went way past the 2 hour time frame.
My favorite birthday gift in recent years was when Mom & Dad replaced the ratty old cotton cord clotheslines in my basement with 4 nice long vinyl-covered wire lines strung high enough that my sheets didn’t touch the floor. Dad also moved a fluorescent fixture so it was right over the washer & dryer. Now doing laundry is *almost* pleasant!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:09 am
I am always on the look-out for discounted baby clothes at Target, TJ Maxx, etc. Oftentimes I can find nice outfits for under $5. The key to this is to plan ahead. I have a whole plastic tub full of baby clothing in different sizes, so that when a friend has a baby, I just have to look in there and pick out something appropriate. I also do this with books. You can often find a regularly priced $6 board books at TJ Maxx or other discount stores for under $3. Then I pair an outfit with a book. It looks like I’ve spent $20 when often I’ve spent well under $10. But I actually enjoy shopping for baby clothes. If you don’t, this might be a problem.
Planning ahead if of course harder with weddings. While I often had said I would never register when I married, I actually ended up doing it. This is really the last time that people will buy you gifts en masse (and they will buy them for you whether you want them to or not). Better to get what you like than a bunch of random things!
Try not to look down on people who expect gifts when they marry. It is a time when you prepare for the future. The fact is, most people who marry do need china or flatware and other household items. That the don’t end up using them is another issue. In many respects, hospitality and entertaining are lost arts. I know my grandmother used her china all the time. I actually am glad I have fancy flatware, because it motivates me to have people over to justify the extravagance. And not all extravagances are bad.
One more thing, even if you are anti-consumerist or anti-gift giving, please don’t show up at a shower or a wedding without a gift. It’s just tacky and almost insulting. I speak from experience. If you really feel that way, it would be better not to attend.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Great post. I’ve noticed that several other people have also mentioned the dollar store/China connection. The thing is, try to find a store where everything ISN’T made in China. TJ Maxx has mostly inventory from China as well, as does Walmart, Sears, Best Buy, Lowes and just about any other major store you can think of. Even small boutiques in town often order merchandise from China or other countries where the wages (and usually the quality) is very low. I just had to point this out, as outsourcing is something that concerns me very much right now.
As far as gift giving goes, I have found that it pays to be very organized. I have a section of the closet that I devote to gifts. If I find something at a garage sale that is either almost new or very unique, or something someone would like at a 75% off sale, I buy it and stash it in the closet until the appropriate time. I keep a selection of “generic” toys that I have found on sale for those numerous birthday parties that the kids attend.
It’s exhausting, isn’t it?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:30 am
@Jill:
“One more thing, even if you are anti-consumerist or anti-gift giving, please don’t show up at a shower or a wedding without a gift. It’s just tacky and almost insulting. I speak from experience. If you really feel that way, it would be better not to attend.”
At a shower you *might* have a point in some circles, as if you’re just local to the bride and groom you can go to the wedding. If the shower is in a different place than the wedding (eg, the wedding is in MD and the shower in GA), go to the shower and be with your friend. Shame on you for depriving people of that companionship.
There is *no* justification for your wedding comment though. A wedding is a religious ceremony for many but for all its where you want your closest there to celebrate the beginning of one of the most important commitments of your life. You’re *not* buying people a ~$20 dinner so you can come out ahead in gifts.
If you have people in your circle who have that illusion, well, remember that, and really think about the quality of their judgment in other things in life; they’re disconnected from what really counts and are materialistic, although they may not realize that. I almost missed out on 2 of the most beautiful weddings of close friends during leaner college days because I had the gross illusions of your associates. They are just wrong.
Weddings aren’t a gift exchange program, neither is Christmas. They’re times to be with family and other close to you and usually throw in a religious bit or two as well.
–Michael
–Michael
July 9th, 2007 at 9:32 am
Hi, I’m the Amanda who wrote the original question. Thanks to JD & wife & everyone for your ideas. I do shop at TJ Max & Ross & the local outlet Carter’s or OshKosh stores for baby gifts. I actually got my in-laws a really nice silverware set for a good price three years ago at TJ Max after shopping ALL OVER TOWN at Christmas. I’ll try to get over there for Christmas this year.
I usually buy my nieces & nephews classic books under $10 for their birthdays, unless there is something else I know they really really want. I think I’m going to go the cash route with the older kids this year though, so they can pick out their own gift. I always liked doing that when my grandma would send me birthday money as a child.
One other thing I’ve done (hope this doesn’t sound tacky) is re-gifted. I re-gift gift cards to movie theaters and restaurants that I know other people like, and I’ve regifted a really nice brand-new salad bowl set that I wouldn’t have used to some friends for their wedding (it was the same week I found out about my son’s life-threatening illness when I was still pregnant! I’ve also regifted new duplicate toys my kids have received, it’s better than going to walmart or Target (whose return policy is STUPID and rude I think).
I just wanted to comment on gifts for kids in general. My son has been in the hospital 4 different time for his 5 surgeries. Last year, he almost died and was in the hospital for a whole month. It took me three trips of the hour drive home with my station wagon FULL of toys and gifts people sent my son. They were all very well-meaning, but it was crazy. I donated a lot of the unopened gifts to the hosptial for other children and I sent some of them to other families whose kids were having similar surgeries and didn’t have the same overwhelming family & friend support that we did.
Right now, I’m e-baying duplicate gifts for my non-profit organization instead of trying to exchange them. My daughter got a second copy of Peter Pan, so I’m going to sell it through Mission Fish and the money will go to the nonprofit I started to help families like mine learn about medical technology and treatments.
Also, there is a welfare-to-work daycare center in my town and I give all our gently-used toys to them as many places can’t take used toys. I also gave some of our big baby items (pack & play, booster seat) and lots of used movies and books to the Ronald McDonald house, because they can use those used items.
I’d like to hear what other people have done to curb excessive gift RECEIVING and what they do with the things they don’t want. I used to have the hardest time giving away something that was given to me, but I’ve gotten over that since my house filled up with STUFF!
Thanks!
Amanda
July 9th, 2007 at 9:32 am
My family (husband, sister, and parents) get together to buy one big gift for each of my parents. That way they get something they really wanted for $35 and we each only end up spending about $12/kid. I also check the Toys R Us, Amazon, and Target catalogs, websites, and inserts to find the best deals on gifts for the six-year-old.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Michael, Sorry to burst your bubble, but a lot of gift-giving involves both obligation and pleasure. I appreciate your idealism, but like other commenters, I wouldn’t be caught dead showing up at a baby or bridal shower or wedding without offering at least a modest gift. While I sometimes grumble a little inside when another one of these occasions comes up, I just remember how unbelievably generous all our loved ones were when we got married. It’s sort of a what-goes-around-comes-around thing. While it did feel somewhat uncomfortable registering for and accepting SO MANY gifts for our wedding and my bridal shower, I now realize I’ll always be paying it forward by helping others build their homes as we were helped. It’s a tradition in our society that goes back many years to help a newly married couple prepare their home together. It would be a shame to deprive that of the gift-giver. Also, we received some very beautiful, personal and unique gifts we never would have thought to register for - that’s something cash just can’t replace. It’s also awesome when someone gives you a gift you never knew you needed. Again, why deprive the giver of the pleasure of witnessing your enjoyment of their thoughtful gift. If you don’t like the gift, simply donate it to charity. What’s the big deal?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
My mom’s side of the family no longer does holiday or birthday gifts at all. Instead, we all donate to a charity in the family’s or birthday person’s name. Even my younger cousins (ages seven and nine) love this - for their birthdays this year, one of them chose to sponsor a zoo penguin and receive updates on it, and the other donated some chickens through Project Heifer. Rather than stressing out over finding a toy for under $8, those of us on a tighter budget can give what we can afford and feel like it is going toward something purposeful, rather than a crappy toy that will break in five minutes and isn’t even fun.
My dad’s side of the family is a different story. My uncle’s wife devised a gift giving policy where we swap names and stay under a fifteen-dollar limit, because gifts were a strain on her family’s budget. Everyone dreads being chosen by her in the gift swap - she gives the shittiest gifts known to man. (Seriously, what eight-year-old boy wants a decorative unsafe-for-food bumblebee teapot and a fanny pack from the closeout store?! And last year, she gave me generic acne medication for a holiday present - I don’t even have problem skin!) Basically, she wastes her money on $60 of total useless crap every holiday, and she won’t consider the charity option because her kids “need” gifts. It’s terrible.
For weddings, showers and baby gifts, I stitch Hoover lace when I’m on the subway, make table linens, bibs and booties out of it and pile them up for eventual giving. Most people like them - at least, I get lots of compliments and requests - and even if they don’t, I enjoy making them so it’s no big deal to me. I actually love giving gifts, and it’s a lot more fun without an obligation attached.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
@MVP
My point is not that there is not merit in helping new people get ahead. My point is that *if you do not believe people should be giving gifts for occasions like that or are in a place unable to give a gift you still should show up if you’d like to*. If you really would have wished a guest away at your shower or wedding who didn’t give a gift, you are a horrible person who doesn’t value their friends for the right reasons. Friends and family aren’t there to be gift giving machines. Sometimes they do, but that’s not their purpose.
The fact you “wouldn’t be caught dead showing up” shows that this is about you…not the new couple/baby/graduate. Your attendance is more valuable than your gift. If you don’t believe that. Show up at one once. Buy the person an anonymous gift, mail it to their house beforehand without any credit or return address for you (or send cash/a money order or paper EE savings bond). Then go to the event and don’t bring something. You’ll learn something about yourself and your friends that day.
There is a *fake* tradition created by the wedding industry (which includes home furnishing, kitchen supply and department stores) about which you’re talking about. I bet you think our great grand parents bought each other chocolates on valentine’s day and diamond engagement rings too? Each of these is a hoax perpetuated by a marketing campaign. Be very weary of things you think are a tradition that cost money: they’re often fake products of advertising campaigns and myths. Don’t be a cookie cutter conformist about traditions, really learn where they come from so you don’t embarrass yourself coming off as a patsy for federated department store
Your attendance is more important than money, and money is more important than gifts. Gifts are far and away last on the scale of importance.
–Michael
July 9th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
“J.D.’s mother asked to be excepted — she loves piling gifts on everyone and exercises her grandmotherly rights to do so.”
I am that guilty party.
I am one of those people who gets a lot of pleasure out of giving gifts.
I appreciate this article very much, Kris, and it and the comments following have triggered a few thoughts of my own.
I feel that drawing names can work well, but sometimes with families spread far apart geographically, it isn’t possible to physically draw names. In my birth family, my siblings and I rotate family names rather than draw individual names. To illustrate, one year would be like this:
Sue –> (gives to) Frank (& family)
Frank –> Jo
Jo –> Kathy
Kathy –> Sue
The next year would be:
Sue –> Jo
Frank –> Kathy
Jo –> Sue
Kathy –> Frank
In each case, it is the entire family who receives the gifts, and they have been very good at doing that as assigned by this big sister. I let everyone know the assignments in January in case there are any who like to take advantage of the January sales, and then I remind them in September or October. My mother used to participate but as her health has become more frail, she is exempt from this.
If your company has access to wholesale gift catalogs from distributors like LTD Commodities, items can be bought from them at very good prices. At one time, they insisted that the buyer order three of an item, but they have quit doing that now, which I have been glad to see. The drawbacks are that the items often come from overseas, for those who prefer to buy American, and I have been disappointed in a few of the products I have received from them, but mostly they have items of good quality and the savings comes in the lack of fancy packaging.
I keep lists of items I have bought for people and although once in a while I have a brain cramp and forget to write down a gift I have bought with someone in particular in mind, that is rare and I find keeping a written record is very helpful to me.
I have tried to cut down, as I’ve gotten older, on gifts that need to be shipped, since lifting heavy packages is no longer possible. Along with that, I would like to get more into gift cards/certificates and cut down in general on gifts to more distant family, other than to my kids and grandkids, who are my first priority when it comes to gift-giving. However, somehow my spare room manages to become a repository for goodies that I will be giving to family and friends come Christmas time or the next birthday.
Which reminds me, there was something I needed to double-check on my list . . .
July 9th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
When I was growing up, my family did a Christmas gift exchange with our cousins — 4 kids in our family, 3 in the aunt/uncle’s. But the catch was, we did our shopping in July & August at garage sales. Mom and dad gave each of us kids $5 to get all our gifts with.
It was actually great fun. You can find some awesome stuff at garage sales for ~$1 when you’re a kid.
July 10th, 2007 at 12:58 am
@ Michael, Jill, MVP et al - re not showing up without a gift…
So, if I travel, say, 1000km to visit whomever this person is that is having a shower, and don’t show up with a gift, is my presence not wanted?? Cause that’s what I’m doing in August and I’ve been told that my presence, which is going to cost me probably $500, is going to be appreciated.
@Jill’s comment about weddings: I don’t know how many weddings you have been to in the past while, but any weddings that I’ve been to, the couple have been around 30 years old, have been on their own for the past 10 or so years, and have usually lived together for at least a good deal of that time. They really don’t need anything that is anywhere near affordable - that I would be able to buy them. They both have jobs, both make decent money, and both are doing fine. It seemed to me that gift-giving at a wedding started back when a couple would be starting out with *nothing* at all; like back when my mom got married when she was 16, and literally had nothing to start her off with. Her grandmother gave her some used utensils and some plates and she was grateful for this gift even though it was used. Could I see my grandmother giving me some used plates and utensils now to me if I were to get married? Nope. Would I expect her to give me anything: absolutely NOT. I’m making a lot more money than her, and I’m doing quite fine (despite my debt).
BUT, but but… I think this speaks more to a pattern of marriage, and different ages when people get married, rather than rudeness or anything. My sister-in-law is getting a ‘hope chest’ of sorts ready for my nephew: my nephew is 14 years old, really bright and will probably go to university when he graduates. So they are buying a few things for him between now and then that will help him when he is out on his own: a set of frying pans, some towels, some dishes. They aren’t extravagent, but they will be very useful.
For baby showers, especially in the case where the parents are first-timers, I think small gifts are fine. BUt again, it to me depends on the amount of resources they have versus the resources you,as a gift giver, have. If I go into their million dollar house, where they have a totally decked out nursery… is there anything that I can give that they won’t have? Usually in those cases, I give a gift of time, ie, babysitting or something.
@Amanda: I’ve tried to tell a bunch of people not to bother with gifts for me as well… I’ve tried. Sometimes they get it - my mother doesn’t though. So I’ve had to be horribly blunt with her and tell her no. No more gifts… my dad is fine with that because he hates shopping.
But with other gifts that are rather unexpected or that I’ve received that I don’t use - I re-gift. And my friends know I regift. And they probably regift my regifts. If whatever it is is in good condition too sometimes I’ll gift it to the homeless shelter. To be honest, I’ve gone past the point of caring what people think about me for that; I’ve let them know my preference, and if they aren’t willing to respect my wishes, then the gift-giving isn’t because of my needs, its because of their need to give.
And with that need to give, sometimes I wonder if people give gifts because they like that feeling of being one up on another person. Not in a malicious way or anything, but just that they like to feel socially or economically superior to that other person, the person to which they are giving the gift. This would be especially the case with those that give those biiig gifts.
But seriously for me the deal is this: don’t give me gifts, and I don’t have to feel a guilt of obligation to give you a gift. It makes us all a bit less burdened, and we can just spend time hanging out instead.
July 10th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Michael Langford says “If you really would have wished a guest away at your shower or wedding who didn’t give a gift, you are a horrible person who doesn’t value their friends for the right reasons.”
A horrible person?? Come on. I never said a gift had to be a serious monetary strain. But bring something - even if it’s a card with something that you made. And for those of you who travel a long way and pay a lot - then just give a little present. And if you are truly destitute, your friend will most likely know that already and tell you not to bring a gift. I certainly would. But the reality is that gift giving is a part of our culture and most other cultures. You would be hard pressed to find ANY society currently and back in history that didn’t give gifts (read Marcel Maus’ The Gift). People who expect that gesture in time honored events shouldn’t be labeled petty or “horrible”. If they attach a certain money amount to that tradition or only gifts off their registry, then yes, that is out of line. I agree that we should fight against the consumerism of our current wedding gift giving culture, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water and say that gifts or people who expect them are shallow.
Perhaps the most touched I’ve ever been by a gift was when I was working in Bolivia in the mountains for a non-profit group. Before we left for the summer, the caretaker of the house gave us his skinny wild chicken (one of his only posessions and pets). In their culture, even the destitute give. Because he was so poor and we so rich, should we have refused this heartfelt gesture? Absolutely not. We ate his pet, tough skin and all.
Perhaps those of you who consider attending a wedding or shower without a gift of any kind should re-examine your own reasons for this decision. I find in myself sometimes my high principles can mask a certain degree of either laziness or egoism. If you are traveling that far for a wedding, perhaps you resent the amount of money you have to spend? If you do, then your attitude towards the wedding isn’t right either.
July 10th, 2007 at 8:44 am
As a brand new parent ( 3 months next week!), gifts are an awkward thing. We live in a cute little house with limited storage. We can afford to buy lots of things for our baby but we still appreciate the gifts we have been given, as it saved us a lot of money. Some people gave us cash(much appreciated for purchasing baby furniture) some people gave us their gently used larger goods(swings,crib, bedding and clothes- very appreciated) and some people gave us cash. However, other people kept showing up with new toys that he won’t use for a long time, old scary toys that we won’t ever let him use and other sundries that while cute, are still looking for a safe place to live. We are space poor, not poor poor, and despite repeating this to people, they still give more and more. I’ve only bought Jack two new outfits in total; I go to a used children’s place to buy clothes and toys. The world has enough useless stuff filling it, and I refuse to contribute. When he grows out of the clothes (either the ones I bought there or the clothes given to us, used and new), I sell them to the store for credit and get new clothes, toys and equipment. I can also get gifts there for other children in our circle. It bothers me that people think buying gently used is gross or dirty or cheap. It’s not. It’s better for our budget, better for our environment and better for our son to see us using money responsibly, rather than foolishly. I’d rather Jack wear gently used things( and let’s be honest- babies wear an outfit maybe twice before they outgrow it) and have a good savings account for university.
By the way, a lot of people are talking about health/medical bills. How’s this? Offer to pay for health insurance for a month or two for a new parent while they’re off on leave. Now THAT”S a good use of money….or you could simply vote in a politician who will work towards universal health care, something you all in the States still don’t have.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:47 am
Jill, I agree with you on ALL points. For those who are traveling, I’m hard-pressed to understand how, if you have enough money to travel a great distance, you can’t afford a simple $10 gift for your loved one. No, you don’t HAVE to, but it’s certainly a kind and thoughtful gesture. Liz, I think it’s pretty cruel to deprive your mother of showering you with wedding gifts. Unless it’s truly out of hand, the polite thing to do would be to say “thank you” - once you get off your soap box. Where are your manners? Also, the entire point of a shower is to “shower” a person with gifts. This goes back many years. And yes, Michael, I’m pretty sure many of our great-grandparents bought each other diamond engagement rings.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:09 am
Thanks MVP. I was starting to feel like a horrible person for thinking that gifts are a nice thing to give and receive.
For those of you so set against accepting gifts, why not suggest to friends and family to donate to a charity in your name? You could also do the same when you attend an event. Others have suggested this, and I think it’s a great idea. That way you can keep to your (in my opinion incomprehensible) desire to not give material gifts and still show up at the event with something meaningful.
Along with giving people our registry information online (NOT in the invitation, don’t ever do this for a wedding), my husband and I encouraged people to donate to several charities that meant something to us. I was happy when several guests took us up on it. Some gave us both a gift and a donation in our honor; others just gave donations, which also made us very happy. At the end of the day, for most people (at least I like to think so) gifts are not about the things but about the gesture.
July 10th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
@Jill + MVP
I’m not saying “Don’t bring a gift to a wedding”. Someone else did. I do give for these events, but ever since someone explained why they give money, I give monetary things (as I mentioned before). I think its better to give cash or cash-producing instruments, but hey, I don’t , in the end, care what or if people give to me or each other.
I’m saying if someone has a problem with giving gifts, ideological or monetary, you have issues of character and a poor relationship with your friends if you think they should not attend important life events.
They still should be welcome. Shame on you for saying they shouldn’t. Someone in this thread (Jill) said “If you really feel that way, it would be better not to attend.”
No Jill, you’re wrong. This is a horrible behavior to advocate. I want friends and family at my event, and you, if are a good person, should too, even if they have ideas about gift giving you do not believe or understand.
You should not discourage them from coming, just like you should still invite atheist and Jewish friends to a wedding held in a church.
–Michael
And no, our great grandparents did not give each other diamond rings (Unless yours got married a decade or so after mine did. Then forgive me, great great grandparents): http://www.diamondwholesalecorporation.com/TheHistoryoftheEngagementRing.html
July 10th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
I think Michael and I will just have to agree to disagree. Several times he has declared my views shameful, my opinions horrible and hazards a guess that I might not be a good person. I don’t know Michael, so I will make no claims to his character either way.
July 10th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Michael, I’m not sure what you’re talking about regarding diamond engagement rings. The info in the URL YOU provided clearly states diamond engagement rings were given as early as the Middle Ages, and the tradition has continued through today. That’s totally off the subject of this post, but I just wanted to point out that you’re mistaken if you don’t believe people of all cultures have been exchanging gifts for centuries - including diamond engagement rings.
And remind me not to invite you to any of my special life events - not because you won’t bring a gift, but because from reading your comments, you seem to be rather mean-spirited, and it sounds as if you’d be a real buzz-kill to have around at a celebration.
July 10th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
@Jill
Jill Says:
“Several times he has declared my views shameful”
They are. They are intolerant, discriminatory and exclusionary. You’re taking someone with a difference of opinion and telling them to not go to yours and others life events. I’m calling you out on this.
Sadly, those who believe in tolerance can’t be tolerant of the advocacy of intolerance. Quite a moral paradox, but the case nonetheless
@MVP: I don’t think you get what I have an issue with: Jill stating people shouldn’t go to major life events just because they hold a certain idea. That is *it*. I think this is horrible, and just like if you said we should ridicule people who had nothing but abstinence based sex-education who got pregnant at 16. I’d call you out on that too. But you didn’t state this idea, she did.
And yes, advocacy, at a point, is a moral issue. She was advocating something that has since been derided by popular western culture: Intolerance by exclusion.
You act like this is a small thing. It’s not. I’m assuming you’re white, too young to remember when women couldn’t work/go many places, and probably at least nominally Christian in a mainstream protestant sect. Or perhaps you just missed the point. She’s advocating a test for wedding attendance: If you could bring a gift and didn’t, you should be barred from the door.
I’m not saying gifts haven’t been given a *lot* in popular culture. At all. I don’t know where you even got that. I say beware of apparent traditions that cause a large outlay of cash. I warn this because they’ve often been built up an manufactured by a company or two (or a whole industry, in the case of the wedding industry). A little investigation can usually find this out.
And yes, I can be a buzz kill at times…I mean, when your relative says, I’m sure glad “he’s not dating one of those crazy Asians this time “, I may say call her out on that in a proper forum for discussion of that nature. If she draws it out too much, I may call her aside right there. You bet your life.
As, low and behold, we’re in a *discussion forum*, under and article “How to Escape the Gift Trap”, I believe that’s an appropriate place to call someone out for active advocacy of intolerance and exclusion because of a difference in beliefs relating to actively escape the gift trap.
–Michael
Normal people didn’t give diamond engagement rings until the 1920’s and 30’s. Read the part of the article on the 20th century to see where the tradition began. My great grandparents aren’t kings and nobles, and I made a demographic assumption yours aren’t either. Perhaps I just assumed you had humbler roots than you do.
July 10th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
I’m honestly stunned by this presentation of me based on one statement I made. I’m all these things you accuse me of solely because I said “if you really feel that way, it might be best not to attend?” All of the sudden Michael has me greedily standing at the door to take gifts from people, barring the door to whoever didn’t bring something. If your estimation of me is true, namely that I would really bar the door to a non-gift giver or ostracize someone who didn’t think like me, then I deserve all those things you said about me. But I can rest easy tonight knowing this is very far from the truth.
If anything, I have held back and not said what I think of Michael’s comments, because I don’t like to be rude or to resort to personal attacks. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me - but I don’t appreciate someone using one comment I made to implicate me in an unfortunately long history of exclusion and intolerance. That’s just taking things too far.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
I find this statement at “Anti-Consumerist” people intolerant, therefore immoral, therefore making you an immoral person (with respect to this) if you advocate this position:
“One more thing, even if you are anti-consumerist or anti-gift giving, please don’t show up at a shower or a wedding without a gift. It’s just tacky and almost insulting. I speak from experience. If you really feel that way, it would be better not to attend.”
We kept discussing the issue, and they clearly remained your thoughts as you continually arguing for them, sort of with the help of MVP, who brought the issue back up.
You can see me quoting it above *several* times.
So are you saying you misspoke in the original statement? That an anti-consumerist person *should* show up, even if they are for some intellectual reason opposed to gift giving and don’t bring a gift? That your statement was in error? Is that the case Jill?
–Michael
July 10th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Okay, guys– time to put away the gloves and hit the showers! Remember the mantra of Get Rich Slowly: do what works for you.
July 11th, 2007 at 5:08 am
[...] over at get rich slowly posted an interesting readers question on how to be more frugal with gift giving. As is often the case some of the comment interchange metamorphasised slightly, in this case about [...]
July 13th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
BTW, if you need an easy way to share giftlists with your extended family, try http://givm.com
It’s a free giftlist sharing site that I made for my family, but it’s open to the world to use.