It’s a free giftlist sharing site that I made for my family, but it’s open to the world to use.

[...] over at get rich slowly posted an interesting readers question on how to be more frugal with gift giving. As is often the case some of the comment interchange metamorphasised slightly, in this case about [...]

“One more thing, even if you are anti-consumerist or anti-gift giving, please don’t show up at a shower or a wedding without a gift. It’s just tacky and almost insulting. I speak from experience. If you really feel that way, it would be better not to attend.”

We kept discussing the issue, and they clearly remained your thoughts as you continually arguing for them, sort of with the help of MVP, who brought the issue back up.

You can see me quoting it above *several* times.

So are you saying you misspoke in the original statement? That an anti-consumerist person *should* show up, even if they are for some intellectual reason opposed to gift giving and don’t bring a gift? That your statement was in error? Is that the case Jill?

–Michael

If anything, I have held back and not said what I think of Michael’s comments, because I don’t like to be rude or to resort to personal attacks. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me – but I don’t appreciate someone using one comment I made to implicate me in an unfortunately long history of exclusion and intolerance. That’s just taking things too far.

Jill Says:

“Several times he has declared my views shameful”

They are. They are intolerant, discriminatory and exclusionary. You’re taking someone with a difference of opinion and telling them to not go to yours and others life events. I’m calling you out on this.

Sadly, those who believe in tolerance can’t be tolerant of the advocacy of intolerance. Quite a moral paradox, but the case nonetheless

@MVP: I don’t think you get what I have an issue with: Jill stating people shouldn’t go to major life events just because they hold a certain idea. That is *it*. I think this is horrible, and just like if you said we should ridicule people who had nothing but abstinence based sex-education who got pregnant at 16. I’d call you out on that too. But you didn’t state this idea, she did.

And yes, advocacy, at a point, is a moral issue. She was advocating something that has since been derided by popular western culture: Intolerance by exclusion.

You act like this is a small thing. It’s not. I’m assuming you’re white, too young to remember when women couldn’t work/go many places, and probably at least nominally Christian in a mainstream protestant sect. Or perhaps you just missed the point. She’s advocating a test for wedding attendance: If you could bring a gift and didn’t, you should be barred from the door.

I’m not saying gifts haven’t been given a *lot* in popular culture. At all. I don’t know where you even got that. I say beware of apparent traditions that cause a large outlay of cash. I warn this because they’ve often been built up an manufactured by a company or two (or a whole industry, in the case of the wedding industry). A little investigation can usually find this out.

And yes, I can be a buzz kill at times…I mean, when your relative says, I’m sure glad “he’s not dating one of those crazy Asians this time “, I may say call her out on that in a proper forum for discussion of that nature. If she draws it out too much, I may call her aside right there. You bet your life.

As, low and behold, we’re in a *discussion forum*, under and article “How to Escape the Gift Trap”, I believe that’s an appropriate place to call someone out for active advocacy of intolerance and exclusion because of a difference in beliefs relating to actively escape the gift trap.

–Michael

Normal people didn’t give diamond engagement rings until the 1920′s and 30′s. Read the part of the article on the 20th century to see where the tradition began. My great grandparents aren’t kings and nobles, and I made a demographic assumption yours aren’t either. Perhaps I just assumed you had humbler roots than you do.

And remind me not to invite you to any of my special life events – not because you won’t bring a gift, but because from reading your comments, you seem to be rather mean-spirited, and it sounds as if you’d be a real buzz-kill to have around at a celebration.

I’m not saying “Don’t bring a gift to a wedding”. Someone else did. I do give for these events, but ever since someone explained why they give money, I give monetary things (as I mentioned before). I think its better to give cash or cash-producing instruments, but hey, I don’t , in the end, care what or if people give to me or each other.

I’m saying if someone has a problem with giving gifts, ideological or monetary, you have issues of character and a poor relationship with your friends if you think they should not attend important life events.

They still should be welcome. Shame on you for saying they shouldn’t. Someone in this thread (Jill) said “If you really feel that way, it would be better not to attend.”

No Jill, you’re wrong. This is a horrible behavior to advocate. I want friends and family at my event, and you, if are a good person, should too, even if they have ideas about gift giving you do not believe or understand.

You should not discourage them from coming, just like you should still invite atheist and Jewish friends to a wedding held in a church.

–Michael

And no, our great grandparents did not give each other diamond rings (Unless yours got married a decade or so after mine did. Then forgive me, great great grandparents): http://www.diamondwholesalecorporation.com/TheHistoryoftheEngagementRing.html

For those of you so set against accepting gifts, why not suggest to friends and family to donate to a charity in your name? You could also do the same when you attend an event. Others have suggested this, and I think it’s a great idea. That way you can keep to your (in my opinion incomprehensible) desire to not give material gifts and still show up at the event with something meaningful.

Along with giving people our registry information online (NOT in the invitation, don’t ever do this for a wedding), my husband and I encouraged people to donate to several charities that meant something to us. I was happy when several guests took us up on it. Some gave us both a gift and a donation in our honor; others just gave donations, which also made us very happy. At the end of the day, for most people (at least I like to think so) gifts are not about the things but about the gesture.

A horrible person?? Come on. I never said a gift had to be a serious monetary strain. But bring something – even if it’s a card with something that you made. And for those of you who travel a long way and pay a lot – then just give a little present. And if you are truly destitute, your friend will most likely know that already and tell you not to bring a gift. I certainly would. But the reality is that gift giving is a part of our culture and most other cultures. You would be hard pressed to find ANY society currently and back in history that didn’t give gifts (read Marcel Maus’ The Gift). People who expect that gesture in time honored events shouldn’t be labeled petty or “horrible”. If they attach a certain money amount to that tradition or only gifts off their registry, then yes, that is out of line. I agree that we should fight against the consumerism of our current wedding gift giving culture, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water and say that gifts or people who expect them are shallow.

Perhaps the most touched I’ve ever been by a gift was when I was working in Bolivia in the mountains for a non-profit group. Before we left for the summer, the caretaker of the house gave us his skinny wild chicken (one of his only posessions and pets). In their culture, even the destitute give. Because he was so poor and we so rich, should we have refused this heartfelt gesture? Absolutely not. We ate his pet, tough skin and all.

Perhaps those of you who consider attending a wedding or shower without a gift of any kind should re-examine your own reasons for this decision. I find in myself sometimes my high principles can mask a certain degree of either laziness or egoism. If you are traveling that far for a wedding, perhaps you resent the amount of money you have to spend? If you do, then your attitude towards the wedding isn’t right either.

So, if I travel, say, 1000km to visit whomever this person is that is having a shower, and don’t show up with a gift, is my presence not wanted?? Cause that’s what I’m doing in August and I’ve been told that my presence, which is going to cost me probably $500, is going to be appreciated.

@Jill’s comment about weddings: I don’t know how many weddings you have been to in the past while, but any weddings that I’ve been to, the couple have been around 30 years old, have been on their own for the past 10 or so years, and have usually lived together for at least a good deal of that time. They really don’t need anything that is anywhere near affordable – that I would be able to buy them. They both have jobs, both make decent money, and both are doing fine. It seemed to me that gift-giving at a wedding started back when a couple would be starting out with *nothing* at all; like back when my mom got married when she was 16, and literally had nothing to start her off with. Her grandmother gave her some used utensils and some plates and she was grateful for this gift even though it was used. Could I see my grandmother giving me some used plates and utensils now to me if I were to get married? Nope. Would I expect her to give me anything: absolutely NOT. I’m making a lot more money than her, and I’m doing quite fine (despite my debt).

BUT, but but… I think this speaks more to a pattern of marriage, and different ages when people get married, rather than rudeness or anything. My sister-in-law is getting a ‘hope chest’ of sorts ready for my nephew: my nephew is 14 years old, really bright and will probably go to university when he graduates. So they are buying a few things for him between now and then that will help him when he is out on his own: a set of frying pans, some towels, some dishes. They aren’t extravagent, but they will be very useful.

For baby showers, especially in the case where the parents are first-timers, I think small gifts are fine. BUt again, it to me depends on the amount of resources they have versus the resources you,as a gift giver, have. If I go into their million dollar house, where they have a totally decked out nursery… is there anything that I can give that they won’t have? Usually in those cases, I give a gift of time, ie, babysitting or something.

@Amanda: I’ve tried to tell a bunch of people not to bother with gifts for me as well… I’ve tried. Sometimes they get it – my mother doesn’t though. So I’ve had to be horribly blunt with her and tell her no. No more gifts… my dad is fine with that because he hates shopping.

But with other gifts that are rather unexpected or that I’ve received that I don’t use – I re-gift. And my friends know I regift. And they probably regift my regifts. If whatever it is is in good condition too sometimes I’ll gift it to the homeless shelter. To be honest, I’ve gone past the point of caring what people think about me for that; I’ve let them know my preference, and if they aren’t willing to respect my wishes, then the gift-giving isn’t because of my needs, its because of their need to give.

And with that need to give, sometimes I wonder if people give gifts because they like that feeling of being one up on another person. Not in a malicious way or anything, but just that they like to feel socially or economically superior to that other person, the person to which they are giving the gift. This would be especially the case with those that give those biiig gifts.

But seriously for me the deal is this: don’t give me gifts, and I don’t have to feel a guilt of obligation to give you a gift. It makes us all a bit less burdened, and we can just spend time hanging out instead.

It was actually great fun. You can find some awesome stuff at garage sales for ~$1 when you’re a kid.

I am that guilty party. I am one of those people who gets a lot of pleasure out of giving gifts.

I appreciate this article very much, Kris, and it and the comments following have triggered a few thoughts of my own.

I feel that drawing names can work well, but sometimes with families spread far apart geographically, it isn’t possible to physically draw names. In my birth family, my siblings and I rotate family names rather than draw individual names. To illustrate, one year would be like this:

Sue –> (gives to) Frank (& family)
Frank –> Jo
Jo –> Kathy
Kathy –> Sue

The next year would be:

Sue –> Jo
Frank –> Kathy
Jo –> Sue
Kathy –> Frank

In each case, it is the entire family who receives the gifts, and they have been very good at doing that as assigned by this big sister. I let everyone know the assignments in January in case there are any who like to take advantage of the January sales, and then I remind them in September or October. My mother used to participate but as her health has become more frail, she is exempt from this.

If your company has access to wholesale gift catalogs from distributors like LTD Commodities, items can be bought from them at very good prices. At one time, they insisted that the buyer order three of an item, but they have quit doing that now, which I have been glad to see. The drawbacks are that the items often come from overseas, for those who prefer to buy American, and I have been disappointed in a few of the products I have received from them, but mostly they have items of good quality and the savings comes in the lack of fancy packaging.

I keep lists of items I have bought for people and although once in a while I have a brain cramp and forget to write down a gift I have bought with someone in particular in mind, that is rare and I find keeping a written record is very helpful to me.

I have tried to cut down, as I’ve gotten older, on gifts that need to be shipped, since lifting heavy packages is no longer possible. Along with that, I would like to get more into gift cards/certificates and cut down in general on gifts to more distant family, other than to my kids and grandkids, who are my first priority when it comes to gift-giving. However, somehow my spare room manages to become a repository for goodies that I will be giving to family and friends come Christmas time or the next birthday.

Which reminds me, there was something I needed to double-check on my list . . .

The fact you “wouldn’t be caught dead showing up” shows that this is about you…not the new couple/baby/graduate. Your attendance is more valuable than your gift. If you don’t believe that. Show up at one once. Buy the person an anonymous gift, mail it to their house beforehand without any credit or return address for you (or send cash/a money order or paper EE savings bond). Then go to the event and don’t bring something. You’ll learn something about yourself and your friends that day.

There is a *fake* tradition created by the wedding industry (which includes home furnishing, kitchen supply and department stores) about which you’re talking about. I bet you think our great grand parents bought each other chocolates on valentine’s day and diamond engagement rings too? Each of these is a hoax perpetuated by a marketing campaign. Be very weary of things you think are a tradition that cost money: they’re often fake products of advertising campaigns and myths. Don’t be a cookie cutter conformist about traditions, really learn where they come from so you don’t embarrass yourself coming off as a patsy for federated department store

Your attendance is more important than money, and money is more important than gifts. Gifts are far and away last on the scale of importance.

–Michael

My dad’s side of the family is a different story. My uncle’s wife devised a gift giving policy where we swap names and stay under a fifteen-dollar limit, because gifts were a strain on her family’s budget. Everyone dreads being chosen by her in the gift swap – she gives the shittiest gifts known to man. (Seriously, what eight-year-old boy wants a decorative unsafe-for-food bumblebee teapot and a fanny pack from the closeout store?! And last year, she gave me generic acne medication for a holiday present – I don’t even have problem skin!) Basically, she wastes her money on $60 of total useless crap every holiday, and she won’t consider the charity option because her kids “need” gifts. It’s terrible.

For weddings, showers and baby gifts, I stitch Hoover lace when I’m on the subway, make table linens, bibs and booties out of it and pile them up for eventual giving. Most people like them – at least, I get lots of compliments and requests – and even if they don’t, I enjoy making them so it’s no big deal to me. I actually love giving gifts, and it’s a lot more fun without an obligation attached.

I usually buy my nieces & nephews classic books under $10 for their birthdays, unless there is something else I know they really really want. I think I’m going to go the cash route with the older kids this year though, so they can pick out their own gift. I always liked doing that when my grandma would send me birthday money as a child.

One other thing I’ve done (hope this doesn’t sound tacky) is re-gifted. I re-gift gift cards to movie theaters and restaurants that I know other people like, and I’ve regifted a really nice brand-new salad bowl set that I wouldn’t have used to some friends for their wedding (it was the same week I found out about my son’s life-threatening illness when I was still pregnant! I’ve also regifted new duplicate toys my kids have received, it’s better than going to walmart or Target (whose return policy is STUPID and rude I think).

I just wanted to comment on gifts for kids in general. My son has been in the hospital 4 different time for his 5 surgeries. Last year, he almost died and was in the hospital for a whole month. It took me three trips of the hour drive home with my station wagon FULL of toys and gifts people sent my son. They were all very well-meaning, but it was crazy. I donated a lot of the unopened gifts to the hosptial for other children and I sent some of them to other families whose kids were having similar surgeries and didn’t have the same overwhelming family & friend support that we did.

Right now, I’m e-baying duplicate gifts for my non-profit organization instead of trying to exchange them. My daughter got a second copy of Peter Pan, so I’m going to sell it through Mission Fish and the money will go to the nonprofit I started to help families like mine learn about medical technology and treatments.

Also, there is a welfare-to-work daycare center in my town and I give all our gently-used toys to them as many places can’t take used toys. I also gave some of our big baby items (pack & play, booster seat) and lots of used movies and books to the Ronald McDonald house, because they can use those used items.

I’d like to hear what other people have done to curb excessive gift RECEIVING and what they do with the things they don’t want. I used to have the hardest time giving away something that was given to me, but I’ve gotten over that since my house filled up with STUFF!

Thanks!
Amanda

At a shower you *might* have a point in some circles, as if you’re just local to the bride and groom you can go to the wedding. If the shower is in a different place than the wedding (eg, the wedding is in MD and the shower in GA), go to the shower and be with your friend. Shame on you for depriving people of that companionship.

There is *no* justification for your wedding comment though. A wedding is a religious ceremony for many but for all its where you want your closest there to celebrate the beginning of one of the most important commitments of your life. You’re *not* buying people a ~$20 dinner so you can come out ahead in gifts.

If you have people in your circle who have that illusion, well, remember that, and really think about the quality of their judgment in other things in life; they’re disconnected from what really counts and are materialistic, although they may not realize that. I almost missed out on 2 of the most beautiful weddings of close friends during leaner college days because I had the gross illusions of your associates. They are just wrong.

Weddings aren’t a gift exchange program, neither is Christmas. They’re times to be with family and other close to you and usually throw in a religious bit or two as well.

–Michael

–Michael

As far as gift giving goes, I have found that it pays to be very organized. I have a section of the closet that I devote to gifts. If I find something at a garage sale that is either almost new or very unique, or something someone would like at a 75% off sale, I buy it and stash it in the closet until the appropriate time. I keep a selection of “generic” toys that I have found on sale for those numerous birthday parties that the kids attend.

It’s exhausting, isn’t it?

Planning ahead if of course harder with weddings. While I often had said I would never register when I married, I actually ended up doing it. This is really the last time that people will buy you gifts en masse (and they will buy them for you whether you want them to or not). Better to get what you like than a bunch of random things!

Try not to look down on people who expect gifts when they marry. It is a time when you prepare for the future. The fact is, most people who marry do need china or flatware and other household items. That the don’t end up using them is another issue. In many respects, hospitality and entertaining are lost arts. I know my grandmother used her china all the time. I actually am glad I have fancy flatware, because it motivates me to have people over to justify the extravagance. And not all extravagances are bad.

One more thing, even if you are anti-consumerist or anti-gift giving, please don’t show up at a shower or a wedding without a gift. It’s just tacky and almost insulting. I speak from experience. If you really feel that way, it would be better not to attend.

My favorite birthday gift in recent years was when Mom & Dad replaced the ratty old cotton cord clotheslines in my basement with 4 nice long vinyl-covered wire lines strung high enough that my sheets didn’t touch the floor. Dad also moved a fluorescent fixture so it was right over the washer & dryer. Now doing laundry is *almost* pleasant!

When trying to plan a registry, especially if you realize china is not something you need and pass on it, you have to put out a *large* amount of effort finding 5-25 dollar items you “want” so small gift givers aren’t frustrated. This just wasn’t our experience, this was some frustration we found out 3 of our married couple friends also shared. We end up putting a list of small items we might someday want or need, then end up throwing away or storing for years.

Give your friends a real gift, that of the item they’d actually use, the money, and take the risk that they’ll think you cheap.

And by the way, every bride and groom knows exactly how much every item costs on the registry. Everyone does. You’re not hiding your “cheapness”, you’re just making the bride and groom indulge your vanity. If they really need the item, and no one gets it, then your gift of money will be (possibly) spent on it. However if it was just a cheap item put there so “Young friends can afford something”, you just did them a huge favor.

Ask one of the more recent married couples you know and bought gifts for which one they’d have liked better: The gift or the same amount of cash. You’ll see who you’re really making happy by gift buying is you, and you’re not helping out the new couple as much as simply dropping cash in the envelope would.

This doesn’t mean I don’t give gifts at all. It could be a random day, for no reason, and I’ll just feel compelled to give a gift to someone. Nothing crazy, just something that says I was thinking about them.

I’d rather have the companionship and presence of my family and friends than gifts.

That said, I don’t think registries are by any means TELLING people what to buy you. They just offer suggestions, and I have found them really helpful as a guest who sometimes doesn’t know what people need. I’d rather spend my money on something I know they want.

So, not only do we get a gift (and a chance to buy one for someone), we get the fun of the swap.

For general giving I also like TJ Maxx (called TK Maxx over here). Stuff is usually a bargain and people get a better quality of gift than they would normally.