Why Religion is an Important Part of Personal Finance
Published on - July 15th, 2007 (Modified on - July 17th, 2007) (by J.D. Roth) This is a guest-post from Free Money Finance. J.D. is on vacation in Europe.
This guest-post has had some very passionate comments. I felt it appropriate to reference J.D’s thought on the matter included in this article “I’ve intentionally kept my political and religious leanings obscure at Get Rich Slowly — they have no bearing on personal finance.” However, FreeMoneyFinance disagrees and took time out from their very busy schedule to post a very lengthy and well-written guest article with a counter-viewpoint. –jerichohill(admining while JD is away)
Recently J.D. and I were emailing back and forth discussing a possible guest post on the topic of religion and money. 
I cover the issue every Sunday on my blog and I tossed out several ideas I thought were worthwhile. Then J.D. said something that decided the issue. He wrote: “I’ve intentionally kept my political and religious leanings obscure at Get Rich Slowly — they have no bearing on personal finance.”
Ahhh, but they do — or at least the religious leanings do. (I’d argue that political leanings probably do too, but that’s for a different post by a more-qualified blogger.) So I’d like to discuss why I think a person’s religion should impact their finances. I’ll toss out a few of my thoughts on the issue, then let all of you chime in with your points-of-view in the comments.
I’ll start with a couple statements so you can get a sense for where I’m coming from:
- I’m a Christian and, as such, I have the most knowledge and experience on the various Christian viewpoints on money, how to handle it, on so on. My knowledge of other religions’ beliefs on money can at best be described as “limited,” so please forgive me if I make an inappropriate comment. It’s certainly not intentional.
- That said, I think my point-of-view on religion impacting personal finance is true for all religions — Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, and so on. I think you’ll see why in a moment.
Now to the heart of the matter. Here’s my short and sweet position on why religious beliefs should impact finances:
Every religion has a set of principles detailing how a person should behave, worship God, treat others and the like. For each of these principles, a context could be (and most likely will be) experienced where money is injected into a situation that challenges a person to either follow or ignore these principles. In other words, how a person reacts with his money in a given situation often is fundamentally tied to whether or not he’s actually following his religious practices — it’s a visible, outside indication of his true belief in the principles of his religion. Therefore, it follows that our religious beliefs should significantly impact how we handle our finances.
How does this play out practically? Here are a couple generic suggestions that illustrate how religious beliefs should impact how money is handled:
- Almost every religion has some sort of principle that says we should treat our fellow man kindly. Furthermore, many religions go a step further and give specific instructions on how we should care for the poor and down-trodden in society. Does this have any implications on our personal finances? Of course. It impacts how we give to feed and clothe the poor, how much we give, to what organizations and the like. It even influences our reaction to a request from a homeless man for a handout or a request for a donation from a foodbank. Taking it back a step further, it even suggests how we budget our money — being sure we set aside enough to help care for the needy.
- Almost every religion has some sort of principle that includes the worship of (and service to) God, Jesus, nature or some higher being or principle. Many religions advocate that we worship God in many ways — through our actions, in song, in prayer, and even through our money. For instance, the Jewish religion has long had the principle of the tithe — giving the first 10% of a person’s income as an act of worship to God. Many Christians practice this principle as well, though several advocate a more general principle of “generous giving” over the tithe. But in any case, doesn’t it make sense that if we’re commanded to worship and serve God that we’d worship and serve him in all ways — including with our money? Certainly this would impact how we handle our personal finances in many ways.
Now let me be a bit more specific. Here are some examples from the Old and New Testaments that impact various aspects of how we should handle or personal finances. Some are commands and some are general principles, but they all influence how we should handle our money:
- Saving: Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. Proverbs 6:6-8
- Diversification of investments: Give portions to seven, yes to eight, for you do not know what disaster may come upon the land. Ecclesiastes 11:2
- Controlling greed: Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” Luke 12:15
- Borrow carefully: The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender. Proverbs 22:7
- Being generous: You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God. 2 Corinthians 9:7-12
- Helping the poor: He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done. Proverbs 19:17
- More on helping the poor: If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 1 John 3:17
- Giving: Just as you excel in everything — in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in your love for us — see that you also excel in this grace of giving. 2 Corinthians 8:7
I could go on and on (there are hundreds of verses in the Bible on how to handle money), but I think you get the point.
It’s a deep subject and I’ve only skimmed the surface, but we can consider the conversation now started. Please add your own thoughts in the comments below. I’ll try to stop in now and then to comment myself and see how the discussion is progressing.
Thanks, FMF, for tackling this subject. Folks, I generally eschew religion and politics at this site, so if you’ve been wanting to discuss issues of spirituality and finance, now’s the time to do it. You can read more about the Bible and money every Sunday at Free Money Finance.
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I enjoy this site immensely and I find the blogger’s advice very valuable in learning about personal finance, however, I come to this site for personal finance topics. If I wanted to read about Christianity, or even Christiancentric personal finance, I’d go somewhere else. I’d prefer to see content that sticks to the main subject of the site because really that’s why I’m here.
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@rhbee–”this negative response is a clear message to the good Christian folk of this country/world that most of us are fed up with the sanctimonious posturing that has put us in to a disastorous military conflict, made us the torturers, the anti-civil rightists, the anti-human rightists,and the creators of the war on terror.”
These people do not speak for all Christians. Not all Christians are like those who are bullying the US and the world with their holier-than-thou stances. I, for one, am Christian but do not condone the actions that they took nor do I have the same fundamental, conservative beliefs that they use to justify their actions and believe the way they are currently throwing their weight around is not
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Sorry, submitted too soon. To finish:
I, for one, am Christian but do not condone the actions that they took nor do I have the same fundamental, conservative beliefs that they use to justify their actions and believe the way they are currently throwing their weight around is not in keeping with Christian values.
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Another thing the Bible says is to tithe 10% of your income, yet I’ve never personally known any Christian who follows this rule. Why? Because this particular rule really sucks. It’s just not at all convenient. Yet it’s in the Bible; it’s an easy instruction to follow. And you’d think Christians would want to follow the rules to avoid going to hell and all. But here’s a dirty, dirty little secret (you know it and I know it): most Christians deep down KNOW that the Bible is full of poo-poo, and so they don’t really care what it says unless it’s something easy-peasy that they were probably going to do anyway. Think about it, if Christians really believed in Hell, a land of ENDLESS torture and suffering, wouldn’t the Bible be the most freakin’ important instruction manual they had ever known? People would do what it says to a T, and study every page as if it were American Idol or whatever. But people don’t really believe. Your parents don’t really believe. Even your minister doesn’t really believe — he’s just a businessman, sometimes even a pedophile to boot! Children really do believe, just as they believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, etc.
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Something I haven’t seen yet in the comments: Robert Kiyosaki advocates giving to charity/church in Rich Dad/Poor Dad. I think he said that somehow, someway, giving to charity always meant that you got more in return. It also works in his game, Cashflow. I can’t say how it works, but I firmly believe that by giving, we receive. I’m sure a lot of the skeptics will attack this; that’s fine by me. It’s a belief, not a provable fact. But I do believe it works.
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Maitresse
Comments are always moderated. You wouldn’t believe some of the spam that bots try to post on blogs. I haven’t deleted a single non-spammy comment, and won’t.
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I’m going to chime in and agree that I was not thrilled to see the title of this post, nor was I happy to read its religious message. I know it’s a guest post, but I read this blog because I enjoy personal finance matters, not God Squad matters. This would be a fabulous post for a Christian blog, but it was a poor choice for this one. I think JD’s tendency to keep his religious beliefs (whatever they may be) out of the blog is wise. Please, no more proselytizing. It has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of this site; and if it does, guest post or not, I’m done.
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I think that a one time post (or at least, very rare) on how ones religious beliefs fit in isn’t really out of place.
I’m interested in how everything affects one’s choices. For instance, I would fine it interesting to hear what a blogger learned from his parents about money, and how that affected him. Or things like that. But parents aren’t nearly as a divisive of an issue as religion =)
I wasn’t a huge fan of this post, but I don’t expect to love EVERY post. I don’t think the author was too preachy. He was just sharing his view. Take it or leave it. I’d probably leave it, but i appreciate him sharing it.
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Heh. Robert Kiyosaki advocates lots of things, though he’s no financial guru. At all.
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I find it odd that so many people are offended by this post. Nobody forced you to read it, but if you actually did read it (instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to it), you will find that FMF never claims to tell people how to act. He merely states that religion has a lot to say about money, and that many of the things religion says are similar to things you hear elsewhere. This, to me, is a clear-cut intersection between religion and finance. I suspect many of the atheists responding to this post didn’t get past the headline.
I grew up in a religious home, and my parents (mom especially) took great care to show me how finances were an important part of their beliefs. I am not especially religious anymore (I’m an agnostic at best), but I know many sincerely religious people who do give more than the 10% tithe described previously.
I have to laugh at those who have unsubscribed (or threatened to) from GRS because of this post. You say you’re open-minded, yet you refuse to read a blog because there was one post, written by a guest blogger, that you disagree with out of several hundred that gave you no offense. Ha, what a crock!
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> You don’t have to be religious to believe in > something. You wouldn’t look at a brand new > car and investigate all the science behind
> the engine, door mechanics, etc. to believe
> that it will start. You put faith in the
> manufacturer that the car will start.
Actually, that’s not belief. That’s a reasonable prediction based on past observations and experience with empirical evidence. You’re taking a predictive stance. This is not the same as having a belief.
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Andrew — anyone who’s read a stack of personal finance books knows that PF is a distinct genre. And as w/ all genres there are certain rules that the authors employ. See, the authors of PF books have spent most the book teaching us how to be money-grubbing pigs, so in an effort to make themselves feel better, they always bury this “giving chapter” in the back of the book. But the fact is, as Thomas Stanley teaches in The Millionaire Next Door, giving money away is a major negative correlate of building wealth. Whether you give your money to a worthy charity or you toss it out the window of your car while on the interstate, you still now have less money than you did before. Giving money to a worthy charity is a noble thing to do, but you won’t “supernaturally” tip the odds in your favor that you’ll now find a big suitcase of money hiding under your bushes or whatever.
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I’m sorry if I am repeating someone else’s reply to those who consider themselves atheists.
Louie Giglio (a Christian worship leader and writer) has said that each of us leaves a trail of time and money that leads to the throne of the one we worship. How we use our money is a clear indicator of who our God/god is.
Even if one does not believe in God, one worships a god, whether it is Self, or something else. Human beings were created to worship (take a look at any sports stadium on a game day). One does not have to believe in God for this to be true!
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Thanks JerichoHill for reminding us that this post was NOT from JD. Personally I couldn’t read it. Just the beginning of it made my skin crawl and I couldn’t make it past the first part. I am in the camp that religion has zero place in personal finance and it makes me pretty uncomfortable that this post was even put on this blog.
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The other day I saw God on the other side of the street. What really? No of course not, you see, he is invisible.
So how do you know he exists? Well, you got to BELIEVE he exists. Aha. Right.
I am not even going to mention the finance part. You already went to far by talking about invisible superheroes that do stuff that no one can be sure of were caused by invisible superheroes. And then worshiping them and giving people that say that they do what the invisible guy wants money. lol.
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I’m going to start my post by saying that I’m a non-believer. I’m not surprised that this post has generated some heated comments as its off topic for this blog.
If a person has religion (any religion), then it clearly should impact on their personal finances as relgion impacts on values, and well run personal finances rely on input from personal values to make them successful.
Personally, I have my own framework of values, which influence many things, including my approach to personal finance. I am also fascinated by other people’s values and the way that they approach personal finance – I found this post interesting, but then I regularly read Free Money Finance’s blog and look forward to his posts relating to Christianity.
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[...] many comments at the moment possibly because FMF himself wrote a surprisingly controversial guest post on Get Rich [...]
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Dan wrote (post number 47) ‘This is what is wrong in America today. I too am a Christian and am truly troubled and saddened by all of the ignorance and bashing of Christians. The Bible is a love story of how our hevenly father loves us, it is an instruction booklet and it is a history book.’
If the bible is a love story, it is a love story based on mass murder, hatred, sexual repression and gender discrimination.
If it is an instruction booklet, what it instructs us to build is not a society in which freedom of thought and expression, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are given the primacy they deserve.
If it is a history book, it is a history in which the world appeared about 4,000 years ago and in which magic happens all the time.
‘While christians are supposed to be tolerant of all other religions, we are supposed to take a back seat and let all of the other religions bash us. Christmas being stricken from any phrase in December, it is becoming ridiculas.’
In the comments based on the religious post, most, if not all, of the comments that area against the tone of the post are from atheists. No religion should be free from people disagreeing with it, no religion should be free from criticism for what some people see as inherent contradictions. No religion should be free from people who want to point out the flaws that exist in it. Especially on a blog that has been resolutely non-religious in the past.
Why should this post escape from people saying that what has been quoted from the bible has been cherry picked, that it is irrelevant to PF for many of the blog readers and that for many people, having impartial and valuable PF advice is more important than somebody trying to wrap that advice up in religion in an attempt to make their religion relevant.
‘To say that religion does not come into play in personal finance is a completely absurd statement. My wife and I tithe, not only because the bible says to, because we want to. We want to become more Christ like, give with an open heart, and several other reasons. We spend our most of our money where our hearts are.’
It may be absurd for you, but not for many other people. Most of the people on the blog want impartial, sound financial advice, which they have been receiving, without spurious claims about the bible being the ‘holy grail’ of financial prudence.
‘To say that if you invest in SIN Stock (or I will go as far to say use the vice products) is not very Christian is ludricus. Christians sin daily, it is a curse for being of flesh. I just try to be more Christ like daily. No one on Earth deserves to go to Heaven, however we have Jesus and his death in the new testament to thank for the opportunity to make it there.’
That comment goes to one of my biggest problems with religion, but this isn’t the forum for that discussion.
‘I will close this by saying personal finance is “PERSONAL” and religion is a very personal and important part of my life.’
Fair enough, and I hope that it helps you lead a good life. However, the fact that you have a belief in religion does not mean that when someone posts some quotes from the bible to back up their view of the world, that they should be free from criticism and free from having the faults of their argument shown. That is not bible-bashing, or anti-religious, it is applying some form of rational thinking on something which has always failed the rationality test.
Finally (and this has gone on for far too long and I frankly doubt too many people are still reading!), this blog has never been about religion or politics.
It has been about sound, impartial, practical advice. It’s best to remain that way, because it is offensive to some people to be told that some mythical creation, who apparently dictated a book to some lads in the middle east a couple of thousand years ago, can provide sound financial advice to people today.
And it is, apparently, offensive to some people to hear that.
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I’ll say this as I say to all “you need religion to______” arguments:
If you need some “God” to tell you the difference between right and left, you’ve got bigger things to worry about than _________.
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Reading The Bible Will Make You Rich…
No matter your spiritual disposition, those old guys who wrote the Bible knew a thing or two about holding on to your shekels. Get Rich Slowly gathered together some personal finance proverbs that are as true today as when they……
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Not that anyone will read comment #64 to this post, but in case they do…
Many of the atheists’ criticisms of this post above are self-answering. Take these for example (both quotes from selfidentified atheists):
“If you need a book to tell you to be kind to your fellow man and be kind to the poor then as a species we are in trouble.”
“but…God commands that no one should work on the Sabbath Day. ”
Not working on the Sabbath is a great example of how religion could effect someone’s personal finances. People (like many muslims) who believe that earning interest is a sin also know that religion effects personal finance. Otherwise there would be little market for “Sharia bonds”, which provide return on investment but comply with Islamic law.
And I always find it amazing that so many people who are not religious say that the slightest mention of a faith literally makes their skin crawl. Fortunately, although I am a decided Christian, the slightest mention of atheism or Islam does not make my skin crawl. Maybe I’m just more tolerant than the rest of you in this small regard.
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[...] is an incredibly interesting post over at Get Rich Slowly titled Why Religion is an Important Part of Personal Finance. I read the entire article and all of [...]
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I started to write a comment that quickly turned into a post, so I put it on my site rather than post it here.
You can read it here:
http://www.gatherlittlebylittle.com/2007/07/16/why-religion-is-an-important-part-of-personal-finance-the-glblguys-perspective/
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All of these comments just confirm all the things that are said in Revelations in the Bible. The world is quickly going downhill and only accelerating faster and faster that soon, no one will believe after Christ will come again to save the believers. I pray that each one of you have an open mind, forget the “religion” out there, and enter a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Please see http://www.christinyou.net/pages/persrel.html. Advice to all, please have an open mind to anything you read. Not only will you feel better and not be so negative about such small things as how a post shouldn’t relate religion to finances, but you’ll become much more well-rounded individual with a greater understanding of your fellow human being. We are all humans, let’s treat eachother so.
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Maybe some of the naysayers are angry that the poster suggests that some of us, diligent workers on our finances all, are missing an “important” piece of the PF puzzle. It’s also almost funnily culture shocking to someone like me from Europe.
Really, this is a poorly written article (emphasizes what a great writer our globe-trotting host is!) and comes across to me, a lapsed Catholic, as an attempt to shove bible verses in people’s faces. It would have been more interesting as a Simple Dollar-like values post or if the author had made an effort to talk to people with different faiths and none instead of shoehorning them as a cover-his-arse aside into one of his bullet points.
And yes, JD is absolutely right not to mix religion and politics into this blog. The bloggers who do are IMHO among the most abrasive and least engaging to read.
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Just to restate… I was one of the first posters on this.
Several posters say they see a lot of “Christian bashing” and they don’t understand such a strong negative reaction.
You’re missing the point. The article essentially asserts that if you aren’t religious you have no moral foundation. That is what, I feel, most readers have found so offensive. It insinuates that the only basis for right and wrong is a religious upbringing, and therefore, you’re incapable of making “good” (kind, etc.) decisions if you haven’t had that foundation in your life.
It fails to acknowledge that morality and religion aren’t mutually exclusive.
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I prefer not to have personal finance conflated with christianity or any other religion. It’s the reason I unsubscribed to freemoneyfinance and I appreciate JD’s undogmatic stance on this blog.
This post does make some of the perennial logic and integrity crimes of christian arguments.
The first is contained in the sentences “Almost every religion has some sort of principle that says we should treat our fellow man kindly. Furthermore, many religions go a step further and give specific instructions on how we should care for the poor and down-trodden in society.”
This passage conflates religion with morality and implies those who reject religion reject kind treatment and care for our fellow humans.
There is a universal (and universally ignored) principle that we should treat fellow humans kindly. Atheists and agnostics are not mean and evil people, nor are religious people innocent of selfishness and cruelty. And indeed, there are specific instructions put in place to ensure kind treatment and care: they are called laws and they are broken by the religious and non-religious alike. There are plenty of heinous crimes and acts of selfishness committed by followers of christ and many times in his name.
The second crime of integrity is cherry-picking bible verses to make and argument, while completely ignoring the rest that contradict or censure the accepted myths of christian morality and practice.
I’m glad religion has had no place on this blog up till now, and more than likely, won’t have one in the future.
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[quote]Robert Kiyosaki advocates giving to charity/church in Rich Dad/Poor Dad. [/quote]
Robert Kiyosaki is a fraud.
[quote]I think he said that somehow, someway, giving to charity always meant that you got more in return.[/quote]
Giving away money means you have less. Do the math.
[quote]It also works in his game, Cashflow.[/quote]
Perhaps that’s because he designed the game, so he made it fit his rules?
[quote]I can’t say how it works, but I firmly believe that by giving, we receive. I’m sure a lot of the skeptics will attack this; that’s fine by me. It’s a belief, not a provable fact. But I do believe it works.[/quote]
And I suggest that we stick to provable facts when it comes to our finances.
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my simple argument as to why religion is a destructive force in personal finance:
i’ve seen too many people expect “the lord to provide” for them, or use “the lord’s will” as an excuse to act like financial idiots.
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Man, did this thing blow up or what?
It would have been nice to have seen a more reasonable and thoughtful discussion take place in regards to the topic. I guess some things are just too sensitive to even broach these days. Ah well…
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@Covert7: This is like the 4th of July all over again!
In defense of JerichoHill: I think he made it very clear that this is simply a post about HIS view of the connection between religion and money, which just happens to be from the perspective of HIS religion…something which he was extremely clear about. Sure, he made some generalizations regarding other religions, which he was very clear to state that they were, in fact, generalizations. And I agree with him…your religious view (or philanthropic view, or moral stance, or whatever you want to call it) will affect your budget.
He asked for a conversation and received an argument.
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@Don
Actually it wasn’t Jericho’s article, he’s just in charge of the site while JD’s gone romping around Europe ingesting truffles & wine while us plebeians raise a ruckus!
The article was actually written by someone at Free Money Finance.
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Covert7, you said it. I got bashed for being a Christian bigot, when I said straight up that I am NOT a person of faith.
There is no reason a person of any religion or belief system (oh no, I said ‘belief’) can’t make good financial decisions, including giving to charity. Some of the nicest, most frugal, most thoughtful people I know are not religious.
But, certain religions DO have some financial beliefs they teach. That’s a fact. Am I the only non-religious person who is interested in learning what they might be?
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This was fun.
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@Sheri
Even if one does not believe in God, one worships a god, whether it is Self, or something else. Human beings were created to worship
Please stop spreading your beliefs as truth. They are not. You are free to believe in your fairy tale religion if you want, but just because you believe it does not make it so.
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Tyler, comment 74, I’ll visit that site if you read Richard Dawkins ‘The God Delusion’.
Don, comment 81: the article was written to start a conversation and that is what is happening. Some people feel passionately that what was said was wrong, that a ‘belief’ in religion does not grant someone immunity from criticism for their views and that what was said was trite, smug and ignores much of the bible which contradicts te authors viewpoint.
The fact that people have said these things does not make it an argument. He has said something which a lot of people disagree with, and they have decided to publicly voice their displeasure, and to show how they think the author is wrong. That, to me, is a fair exchange of views and not an argument.
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D’oh…my mistake. I suppose the original writer has already been carried off with that group holding the torches and pitchforks. In any case, the author deserves some defense…it’s very obvious they wrote the post expecting some folks to be needlessly offended by it.
Personally, I’d love to hear more on the subject…especially from opposing viewpoints. J.D. had written a post called What Should a Billionaire Give, and What Should You? where he brings up the philosophical discussion of money…I can see now why he’s been slow to write on the subject. I suppose it’s just too controversial.
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@Tom: What has happened here is that everyone is complaining that this type of discussion doesn’t belong on a personal finance blog and, in the meantime, are perpetuating the “improper” discussion in question. It’s not too late to salvage it into a meaningful conversation about the connection between religion/philanthropy/morality/whatever-you-call-it and money, which was the author’s intention.
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Don,
One of the best things about this site, in my view, is that it presents clear, common-sense and practical tips on how to manage financial matters.
It does by promoting only one ideology – Be careful with your money. There is no pushing of religion or atheism and the only criteria used appears to healthy amounts of common sense.
When that formula changes, when someone posts an article that tries to push a particular ideology, and that is what the guest post did, people who have enjoyed the previous common-sense approach will respond with their own viewpoints, which may be very much at odds with a religious point of view.
That is why, I think, this blog has been slow to stray into matters of opinion or to cover topics that move away from advice based on common sense, and why we should be thankful that JD keeps a close reign on his own personal views, be he a saint, sinner or someone who believes we’re here for a good time, not a long time!
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jeff:
But, certain religions DO have some financial beliefs they teach. That’s a fact. Am I the only non-religious person who is interested in learning what they might be?
I am definitely interested in how religious people approach their money matters. however, this post was not presented as “how religious people approach money matters”, it was presented as “why religion is an important part of personal finance”. I do not think it is unreasonable to disagree with that premise, or to argue against it.
I haven’t seen anyone here bashing you, and really – I’ve seen very little bashing here at all. sadly, religious people are so used to having a free pass and not having to actually back up their assertions that when people take a questioning or critical stance toward religion, they immediately get labeled as vicious attackers. the fact is, if we were talking about a movie and not religion, most of these comments would seem really moderate. but we are talking about religion, so of course those disagreeing must be strident, hateful people who just want to bash everyone rather than reasonable, logical people who simply question what they are being told and disagree with the notion we should base our lives around bronze age myths and legends.
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Crash. Burn.
I’m making s’mores and I’m going home.
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I find it very interesting that some of the people early on who called themselves atheists or non-religious and talked about being kind to your fellow man, were some of the first people to bash the author of the post or unsubscribe. Kinda funny to me. I guess Christians aren’t the only hypocrites.
Just because I couldn’t quite understand the argument about belief vs. morals and not getting them confused, I went to dictionary.reference.com and looked them up. It’s too much to copy and paste here, but morals deal with right and wrong, good and bad, etc. Belief basically means (I’m combining several dictionaries words): Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something; confidence; faith, trust.
I believe in gravity, but I don’t understand the math behind it. I believe the earth rotates around the sun, even though I have no idea how they figured that out, and I don’t really care to understand. I am confident that stealing is viewed as a bad thing by almost every person on this earth. Only one of those things is a moral issue, and yet most people believe it. I just don’t get why someone saying you believe in SOMETHING even if you don’t believe in any god or religion is offensive. The comment had nothing to do with morals. It isn’t saying there’s a higher power or anything like that. I’m stumped.
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Wow, just mention Christianity and everyone says you’re somehow automatically “pushing religion” on them. I’ve never seen such a vast display of ignorance on a PF blog’s comments.
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@David:
Did you read the title? It seems pretty pushy to me which, IMO, is what’s ignorant.
Religion is NOT an important part of personal finance to a lot of people and stating that it is is definitely pushing religion.
Perhaps you should read the comments before saying that everyone who doesn’t agree is ignorant.
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An earlier poster wrote: “Another thing the Bible says is to tithe 10% of your income, yet I’ve never personally known any Christian who follows this rule. Why? Because this particular rule really sucks. It’s just not at all convenient. Yet it’s in the Bible; it’s an easy instruction to follow. And you’d think Christians would want to follow the rules to avoid going to hell and all. But here’s a dirty, dirty little secret (you know it and I know it): most Christians deep down KNOW that the Bible is full of poo-poo, and so they don’t really care what it says unless it’s something easy-peasy that they were probably going to do anyway.”
Regarding the 10% tithe:
1) There is debate within Christianity as to whether the tithe applies to Christians or was only a requirement for Israel, pre-Christ.
2) That said, as a Christian, my wife and I do give 10% to the local church, as well as an additional percentage to other charities we choose to support. So, now you’ve heard from at least one Christian who does follow this principle.
Regarding Christians not following the Bible in general:
1) Christians are human, and as such aren’t perfect. We don’t perfectly understand or interpret the Bible, and even when our understanding is correct, we often fail to live out that understanding (unfortunately, sometimes in catastrophic ways).
2) Be aware that your understanding of the Bible might be less than perfect as well. Perhaps you are accusing Christians of hypocrisy due to an incomplete understanding of what we are called on to do by the Bible.
I DO believe the Bible is truth (not “poo-poo”), and as such seek to follow God’s teaching faithfully. This has resulted in my making some hard decisions, that I most certainly would not have made otherwise.
If you don’t agree, that’s your choice, but please refrain from mockery.
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[...] Make one post about religious instructions regarding personal finance, and get a slew of personal attacks, unsubscribe notices, and general ignorant vitriol. How bitter [...]
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@pf101:
My reasoning is simple. I quote his thesis:
“I’d like to discuss why I think a person’s religion should impact their finances.”
He said he’d like to show why a person’s religion should impact their own finances, not why you should join a religion, not why you’re supposed to love Jesus, not even why you’re supposed to agree with what he said. Simple as that. People taking it as proselytization need to chill a little bit, and stop trying to bully religion out of public discourse.
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If the title had been more along the lines of “How religion can be an important part of Personal Finance”, I wouldn’t have found it as bothersome. I seem to do very well with my finances without religion.
One great thing about this site has been the civility shown in the comments. Adding religion or politics was certain to hurt that, which indeed it has.
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But I don’t think it should impact personal finance. Am I not allowed to have and voice that opinion as well or are you trying to bully my non-religious opinion out of this public discussion?
Why should your religious opinion be allowed but not my non-religious one?
Had he asked the question “Is religion important” rather than stating as fact that it is, I think people would have reacted differently. It’s asking a question vs. preaching an opinion as fact. Any time you present as fact something that many people don’t believe there is going to be a fight.
Questions lead to discussions. Statements don’t.
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Personal finance has nothing to do with religion, intelligence and planning is all it takes. It was very irresponsible to post something like this and just shows one of the many reasons why any religion is ridiculous, the whole idea of “Jesus likes me better and makes me smarter than you”.
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