Do something different this holiday season. Check out
my list of 34 great gifts you can make yourself!
« 16 Ways to Eat Healthy While Keeping it Cheap | Main
| An Imperfect Credit Score is Not the End of the World »
Extreme Personal Finance: From Penthouse to RV
Tuesday, 31st July 2007 (by J.D.)This article is about Choices, House and Home, Real-Life
If you're new here, you may want to learn what this site is about. I encourage you to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!
He’s back! The ever-controversial Tynan offers today’s guest entry on downsizing from an expensive condo to a 21-foot RV.
On April 20th at 3am I was still awake. I stood on the balcony of my penthouse in downtown Austin and watched the traffic drive by. We were supposed to leave the next day, but I was too excited to sleep. I called my girlfriend.
“Are you ready to leave now?”
“Haha, sure,” she replied.
I stuffed myself and a bag of clothes into the small car I’d rented and picked her up. Twelve hours later we arrived in Albuquerque.
One day earlier I was idly browsing eBay, as I’m known to do. I had this fantasy that I would give up all of my stuff and move into a smaller place. This notion was born when I moved from a larger house into the condo and was made acutely aware by the moving process of just how much junk I had.
Always one to take things to extremes, I searched for an RV. I wanted one that had a shower, toilet, and kitchen, so that I could actually live in it. At the same time it had to be small enough that I could park it in any regular parking spot. The V12 engine of my car afforded me the same miles per gallon as an RV, so I figured I may as well let it replace my car as well.
The first RV in my search was exactly the one I wanted. At 21 feet long it could fit into a standard 19 foot parking space with minor overhang. It was a 2002 model, which meant that it looked good enough to be presentable. Paying for a spot in a trailer park seemed like it defeated the purpose of the experiment, so I planned on parking downtown across from my favorite restaurant.
The best part was the price. It was only $14,000, barely more than 1% of the value of my current home. Similar RVs sold for $20,000. With little hesitation I called the seller, asked a few questions, and told him I’d take it.
Two days later we’d arrived to pick it up. We came around the corner and I saw my new home parked in the lot, right in front of the office. That’s way too small, I thought. I hadn’t measured it out or seen a similar RV in person yet. There was no way I could live in such a tiny space.
Now a bit anxious, I introduced myself to the dealer and we went inside the RV. It felt a lot bigger than I had anticipated. The front half contained a large couch across from a dinette. Both pieces folded down to make one huge bed that was actually larger than a king sized bed. In the middle was a small kitchen with a double basin sink, a fridge, a stove, and a microwave. In the back was the closet and bathroom. I began to think that maybe it was possible to live in.
We had a blast driving the RV back to Texas. We stopped at Carlsbad Caverns and White Sands. Over the slow three day drive back I actually started getting used to it and liking it. My girlfriend remarked that it was a lot more comfortable than she’d expected.
Since picking it up, I haven’t slept in the condo or driven my regular car. Both are for sale.
It’s been two months now, enough for me to get over the initial euphoria of change and to settle in a bit. I’ve also had time to make a few necessary changes. I installed a solar panel to power my laptop all day. The roof vent was swapped with a new vent that has a built in fan with a thermostat. I got a new higher pressure shower that uses fewer gallons per minute.
So what’s it like living in an RV? It’s fantastic.
It’s very cheap. Utilities used to cost at least $500 a month since I was on the top floor and had floor to ceiling windows. Now I pay nothing — my solar panel generates enough electricity for daily use. Once a week I drive less than a mile to an RV park and dump my tanks and get new water. That costs $5. I have broadband internet access from Sprint which costs another $50. Full insurance is $100 a month, which doubles as car insurance. I get my mail through Earth Class Mail for $30 a month or so. That’s it.
I have a favorite restaurant that I eat at every day. It’s 1.5 miles from my old place, which was a bit too far to walk all the time. Now I park across the street and have had no problems with that at all. If I’m visiting a friend and it gets late, I’ll often just stay in their driveway and sleep there.
In retrospect it seems insane to have paid so much money for mortgages and rent. My quality of life has stayed the same or even improved, and I’m saving thousands a month.
I’ve gotten used to the heat. Before I would set my thermostat for 74 degrees or so. Now I can remain comfortable and productive even when it’s 95 degrees inside the RV. People in Africa do it, why can’t I?
Having everything I own (that isn’t on its way out) with me at all times is very liberating. I don’t have to plan ahead. If we decide to go swimming I have all of my stuff with me. If we play volleyball I can shower after the game. If a friend is missing an ingredient for a dinner we’re making, I might have it in the RV. If it starts raining, I have my rain gear with me.
I can even have guests over. Friends hang out in the RV all the time, and I once had five people over to play cards.
It’s interesting how much we enjoy vacation — even if we’re not going anywhere exotic. I know people who will go on mini vacations just by staying in a hotel in their own city! Why is that so pleasant?
I would argue that it’s because it requires us to leave most of our possessions behind. We bring only the few precious things that we need for that weekend. When we’re at home we’re forced to pay attention to, maintain, organize, clean, and interact with our massive collection of things-we-don’t-really-need. Vacation frees us from that.
Living in the RV, or any change in the direction of extreme simplification, is a step towards making your life feel more like vacation. With fewer things to keep track of, less space to keep clean, and less bills to pay, you have more time to focus on what’s really important in your life.
This is Tynan’s third article for Get Rich Slowly. He previously contributed two posts about managing money like a professional gambler: Small Things Add Up and Know When to Fold ‘Em. You can read more about his life at Better Than Your Boyfriend.
40 Responses to “Extreme Personal Finance: From Penthouse to RV”
Leave a Reply
Subscribe to comments on this post via RSS feed.
« 16 Ways to Eat Healthy While Keeping it Cheap | Main
| An Imperfect Credit Score is Not the End of the World »
July 31st, 2007 at 5:44 am
I imagine much of Tynan’s exuberance for this experiment is the novelty therein. As such, the glowing, positive take on the experience thus far is clouded by bias.
“Endowment effect” is traditionally associated with the tendency for people to value something as soon as they own it. Tynan is experiencing quite the opposite.
July 31st, 2007 at 6:46 am
@Brandon: In my case, the novelty would’ve long since worn off at two months.
@Tynan: My hat’s off to you if you can make this work. I don’t think there’s any way that I could pull it off (even if I wasn’t married with four kids).
As an aside, what car gets the same mileage as a 21 foot RV? When you say car, I assume you mean an actual car, and not some sort of monstrous truck.
What happens if you get in a wreck and need to have your ‘home’ in the shop for several days? For now, you can just go back to your condo. But once you sell that, I guess you’d head to a hotel?
What about insurance on your belongings? Typical car insurance doesn’t cover your stuff, just your vehicle — is there RV insurance that’s akin to a homeowner’s policy? If so, is it separate for your ‘car’ insurance, or is it a combined policy?
July 31st, 2007 at 7:33 am
There are so many things wrong with this….unbelievable. You had a *whole* 5 people over?! Wow, a party! You can’t realistically entertain in an RV. You drive it everywhere, and always have your stuff with you….if it’s late, you park in your friend’s driveway and stay the night?
Eating at a restaurant every day? How cost effective is that, not to mention healthy?
It sounds like a human version of a turtle or hermit crap or something. You’ve become “that guy”. Mad props to your girlfriend - I wouldn’t think most women would go for the “hey, wanna come back to my RV?” thing.
And I can’t even fathom how starting a family, having kids, etc. would work. Do you get a bigger RV? How has your quality of life improved when you’re living in 95 degree heat? What if someone wants to find you and you’re out and about? “I was gonna go visit Tynan, but he’s not in his parking spot”?
Congrats, but really the only difference I see between this and a bum living on the street is that in this case you’re still spending on the RV. :-/
July 31st, 2007 at 7:43 am
This is one thing that I would like to try. I have extreme wonderlust and this would be a great way to live!
July 31st, 2007 at 7:54 am
I love this!
July 31st, 2007 at 8:11 am
Great post. I can’t see this working with more than 2 people, and definitely not with kids or most pets. But there’s something romantic about being able to live wherever you go.
What do you do with all of your extra money? You can’t really spend it on “stuff” because there’s limited room in the RV. I guess you can spend more on fun and leisure, such as restaurants, vacations, etc.
Sounds like fun, but I think I’d get claustrophobic.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:23 am
It works with kids, no problem …
We sold off everything we owned and lived full time in a 29 foot rv with 2 kids (1 in diapers) from Oct 2006 - Oct 2007. It was the best thing we did for our family (at the time).
We were working on starting our business and needed to really cut back expenses to keep from going into debt.
We were able to get out of Northern winters and lived a short bike ride to a secluded Florida beach and a lovely orange grove with free freshly squeezed juice.
It’s not for everyone, but don’t dismiss it out of hand. We had our ups and downs, but that’s life, right?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:31 am
Can you leave a RV parked on the street for days on end without moving it? Are there any rules involved assuming there are no parking meters?
July 31st, 2007 at 8:33 am
Fun! I’ve dreamed of this too. The liberation of living lightly…
Don’t a lot of retired folks–snowbirds especially–do it this way? Turn equity into investments and live on the proceeds.
I do know some younger people who’ve lived in vans, campers, etc., mostly students in high-cost areas who take advantage of faciilties on campus for showers and food. So far as I know none have decided to make it a long-term lifestyle.
Brooke, I think people do live “on the road” with kids…some by choice (I’m thinking hippie families on converted school buses) and some not by choice (homeless families). Usually not in such high style, though.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:06 am
Love it! Something I’ve always wanted to do. Thanks for the inspiration!
July 31st, 2007 at 9:11 am
I love hearing stories like this! I’ve often day dreamed on what it would be like to jump out of the rat race and material competition. Good for you Tynan!
July 31st, 2007 at 9:28 am
Funny you should post about this. We actually do the same thing.. in a way. We have our “summer home” as we call it, in an RV, and even though it’s MUCH smaller than what is listed above, it’s big enough for me - a desk to work at, and a bed to sleep, with a small-ish shower. I find that I could even live in about half that space if I wanted..However, it’s parked right now in a back lot of a relative’s home, but it’s still handy as an apartment in a different city.
Our “winter” or all-year “home” is just a room in my parents’ house that I use on a month-by-month basis.. I pay rent only when I’m there, and all of our clothes and stuff we may need periodically is kept there, like in a storage place.
We literally live out of our suitcases now -in hotels on project, etc, and we’ve stopped buying junk like furniture we didn’t need, or knicknacks. Which is quite nice…
This was all done so we could save money to pay down our debt, and then later on, for a downpayment on a home… So far, 3 months later, not bad.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:31 am
Great article. I found myself looking for motor homes as soon as I finished reading it. The idea certainly appeals to me, I hope you can update us in a few months once you’ve lived through all four seasons. I’ve lived on a motor home for a week at a time more than once and it was just like being in a hotel except when you walk out your door you are already “there”.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:38 am
Wow! Very cool - I’d love to hear an update as well.
I have to say, reading stories like this are very inspiring. Not that I’m going to buy and RV and move into it, but to remind me that my little house in the ‘hood isn’t all that bad.
Was my math right - your condo is worth $1.4MM?!?!
July 31st, 2007 at 10:16 am
You should get a little boat and tow it behind you, then if you need to take a vacation from the RV, you can go out on your boat for a couple days.
Actually, I would like to do this, but on a boat fit for the ocean instead of an RV.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:28 am
It would be almost impossible to live like this with kids. Besides, I’m a firm believer in the stabilizing of home and family by putting down roots somewhere.
A nomadic life on the road would undermine all the basics of life that I hold dear; an old homeplace to center oneself when life gets rough, a garden to toil in and to relax in at days end, a hammock under the fruit trees, a pool for the kids, a place to do large amounts of home baking and cooking-nope, this motor home life doesnt sound appealing at all.
Glad it’s working for you though.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:29 am
I guess I’m going to have to be the one to ask you this. Where do you empty the toilet?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:30 am
Aboo Len — this was covered in the article.
>Once a week I drive less than a mile to an RV park and dump my tanks and get new water. That costs $5
July 31st, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Sounds great. My boyfriend and I want to do this when my kids are grown up (4-6 years) and after we get married. I know some things would be more difficult but not having to pay a bunch of bills….priceless.
I’d love to be able to park near the beach too!!
July 31st, 2007 at 12:15 pm
I think that its a great idea. Its like a traveller lifestyle (as in gipsy) - in the UK, not all the popular with the rest of the population, but a perfectly valid lifestyle nonetheless.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Am I the only one horrified by the gas mileage these things get? It’s one thing if you’re living in the thing and barely driving around, but I imagine most of them get fewer than 10 miles per gallon. Environmentally speaking, they’re terrible.
July 31st, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Hey guys… glad you liked the article. Here are some responses to questions :
From the top…
@fivecentnickel : My old car was an older Mercedes S600 with a V12. Not too practical. On a recent trip (I’m up in the Northeast now) the RV averaged 13mpg. Not great, but cheap enough considering I pay no rent.
I have a lot of friends and family I could stay at. If I didn’t, the cost of a hotel on rare occasion would still make the RV a good value. I need to get the fridge fixed soon, so I’m thinking about flying to LA to visit some friends during that time.
RV insurance is basically a combo of car and home. They cover a certain amount (decided by you) of your belongings inside.
@Pete : I don’t expect to have dinner parties, but how often did I have more than 5 people over to the condo? Consider the amount of fun going on road trips with my friends, though. It’s a tradeoff.
I eat breakfast in the RV sometimes, but the restaurant I go to serves perfectly balanced macrobiotic, organic, vegan meals. Having a near-perfect diet is very important to me so I ate there even when I lived in the condo. It’s $12 per meal, but eating such a good diet will probably add 5-10 years to my life. If you’re interested in this, I can point you towards more information.
Most women are very into the RV. I’m actually a pretty well known figure in the dating industry (one of the main characters in ‘The Game’). What most people THINK girls like and what girls actually like are quite different.
I don’t know how it would work with a big family. I would guess not well, but another commenter said that it works for them.
I’ve adapted to the 95 degree heat well. I was inspired by a cousin who lived in Mali for years and told me that her body adapted. Now I can work all day in the heat on my laptop, but the restaurant also lets me work in there all day. I’ve found that I do a lot more outdoor activities like swimming in the creek, though.
When people want to find me they call me or check by my usual spot because it’s in the middle of town.
@brooke: My lifestyle is pretty much finance independent, so I save more. I’m on a monster road trip right now too, so I guess you could also say that I spent a portion of it on gas.
@mike: Depends on the area I think, but generally you can park anywhere for up to three days and then you have to move. You can move a few feet, though. I am usually off visiting someone or doing errands every day or two though.
@icup: I like the idea of a boat too! Or a plane.
@AnnieT: I don’t know what the numbers are, but I know that I use far fewer resources now besides gas. My guess is that it evens out.
——
As for updates, I’ll see about writing another one for the site. I’ve written about it a few times on my blog at http://www.betterthanyourboyfriend.com
I plan on moving out on Jan 5 when I start my next “lifestyle experiment” which is living around the world, moving cities every 2 months or so. My schedule and plan are also on the blog.
Thanks to JD for having me post here and for everyone’s comments!
Tynan
July 31st, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Wow, that’s awesome!
Are most RV’s like that? Are there certain things to look out for to make sure to have?
July 31st, 2007 at 7:14 pm
[...] Extreme Personal Finance: From Penthouse to RV So what’s it like living in an RV? It’s fantastic. [...]
July 31st, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Sounds great. I currently live with my parents and spend about $400 on gas commuting to/from work and home. I can use that $ to pay for RV loan and park closer to work.
Curious, what do you guys do about the laundry situation? Laundromats?
Jae
August 1st, 2007 at 3:57 am
Oh my, this has always been a secret fantasy of mine. Maybe when we’re retired. I think it would be a great adventure to be a snow-bird.
Lisa
August 1st, 2007 at 5:38 am
[...] Dla mnie to jednak ma szerszy wymiar ni? tylko procenty i dolary. Czyta?em wczoraj na blogu “Get Rich Slowly” Wpis go?cia, który wyprowadzi? si? z du?ego domu do mieszkania - a potem sprzeda? mieszkanie [...]
August 1st, 2007 at 2:05 pm
My in-laws sold their home to live in their RV years ago. Now they’re stuck and can’t afford to get back into a real house. They do “own” a cement pad in a trailer park to keep the RV on, since high fuel prices keep them off the road so much anymore.
It’s a LOT of near-constant, close togetherness for one couple. And if you’re the least bit claustrophobic (I am), it definitely isn’t for you.
August 1st, 2007 at 3:32 pm
An RV is a depreciating asset. At some point, it will be cost prohibitive to maintain and drive. A new RV will need to be purchased. So you need to set aside money each month to save for that next RV. In 15 years, the same RV would cost $21k (instead of $14k). In 30 years, it will be $33k.
At some point, you will need to pay for pad rental, if you aren’t on the road all the time. Even at a modest $300 a month, this will inflate to $467 a month in 15 years and $728 in 30 years.
So $14k+21k+33k = 68k in RV purchases. Assume you pay no pad rental for five years, then 10 years of pad rentals at $300/month and 15 at $367 a month = about 102k.
To own an RV until 30 years from now, you’re looking at an outlay of $170k. That doesn’t even include gas.
If you bought a bachelor condo for $125k, you’d own it outright in 30 years. Given 5% average appreciation, it will be worth $540k in 30 years. And you can sell it if you want.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:29 pm
@Andrea: The RV also replaces my car which is roughly equal in value and also a depreciating asset, so the point is moot (for me at least).
Also, I would never pay pad rental. There’s no real benefit to doing so.
There are no $125k condos near where I park the RV usually (the closest approximation would be a 300k house in a nearby neighborhood). The taxes on that property alone (not to mention any sort of utilities, maintenance, interest on loan) would far exceed RV depreciation.
Another hidden benefit to the RV is that when I travel (I’m probably gone for 3 months a year) I pay zero costs. Most people are paying taxes / interest / (less) utilities.
Tynan
August 1st, 2007 at 8:19 pm
[...] writes a guest post that teaches us that radical change requires … radical change. Clearly, if you want to change the results you’re getting, the first step is to ask [...]
August 2nd, 2007 at 12:23 am
Dear Tynan,
You are my freaking hero. If only life were so simple, I would already have followed in somewhat similar footsteps.
Simplification of life is the answer. Today I surround myself with complexity, and am told constantly that that is the answer to success in life. I don’t believe it. My soul refuses it. But the path of least resistance is, ironically, the path of complexity.
Sure, I have plenty of possessions. I am a bit of a pack rat. I’d probably stow much of it away in a unit somewhere. Eventually I would lose interest in most of it, I expect. I spend money on things that, when I have the rare spare time, give me maximum enjoyment to make up for the mass of complexity I have to deal with otherwise.
If I could simplify life, I could discard most expenses. Perhaps I could even afford to change jobs to something that satisfies my interests and goals rather than just do a job that uses certain skills for the end result of making other people more money.
I hope you blog often, because I will need to live vicariously through you.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:37 pm
“It was only $14,000, barely more than 1% of the value of my current home.”
if my maths is correct, that means he lived in a $1.4M home ($14,000 / 1%) and dropped to an RV. yeah, right .. i believe that.
August 4th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
To Anonymous: Don’t be a sarcastic dodo. It’s unpleasant and unintelligent. He may have actually meant to write 10%. In any event, that is hardly a salient point of the piece. Furthermore, even if your math is correct, your English is not.
>if my maths is correct
August 4th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Tynan,
Tell us about this great restaurant. Is it Mr. —- on Cesar Chavez? I forget the actual name. We’re about to move from L.A. to Austin in a few months and will be visiting again (looking at small, east side properties) in a few weeks. Austin is our attempt to downsize and simplify our L.A. lifestyle.
So far, we’ve discovered many great eateries, but none that are macrobiotic. I’m a vegetarian and sometimes a raw foodist for periods of time. I’ve stayed at the Optimum Health Institute in San Diego and I know the other one is in Austin. Do you know it?
Rae
August 5th, 2007 at 3:58 am
I have to ask a question, I hope you don’t get offended… But how much privacy do you get in your RV? For example, I would love to adopt that lifestyle, but one thought keeps creeping in: what if I’m having sex with my partner, and the RV shakes, and the movement is visible from the oustside? ouch!
August 5th, 2007 at 11:59 am
@Anonymous: Yes, the condo sold for over $1M
@Rae: It’s called Casa De Luz. You’ll love it… stop by and say hi to the guy with the shiny hat. Mr Natural is a joke- not actually healthy at all (lots of sugar and deep fried junk)
@lala: There’s plenty of privacy. It doesn’t rock much, although you can also use stabilizing jacks to make sure there’s none. Plus, you can’t really tell what’s going on. it rocks more from walking around than having sex (hmm… maybe that says something about my technique..?)
Tynan
October 8th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
One alternative would be a Sprinter van they run on diesel and get 30 mpg. ive seen them decked out with showers and toilets. Freightliner sells them in the USA.
October 9th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Hi, Tynan,
Wondering if you got our post-it on your trailer (the only one across the street from Casa De Luz)last month. In August, actually, my husband and I went back to Austin and we ate at your restaurant, which was fantastic! An awesome place I’m so glad to have discovered. We ate on the deck and I saw my first firefly in real life, if you can believe it. (I live in the middle of Hollywood.) I nearly cried. Anyway, we knocked, uninvited, on your trailer, but you weren’t there. I left a post-it note, saying hi. It was really cool to read article online, go to Austin, see your trailer “in the flesh” for real and eat at that place. Nice parking spot, great environs! Can’t wait to live in awesome Austin.
-Rae
February 10th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
You got me very interested in buying an RV now. Seriously. Thanks man. Why not, I will try it out:). I like to experiment, part of my lifestyle. The only way to truly know stuff on a deeper level.
Take Care.