What I’m Doing Right
Published on - August 2nd, 2007 (Modified on - August 7th, 2007) (by J.D. Roth) Today’s guest post comes from M, a blogger and writer living in San Francisco. She keeps a fascinating personal blog, as well as Bay Area Love Letters, a site devoted to San Francisco and Northern California.
Decide how much to save in an emergency fund…Research how to determine amount of life insurance coverage needed…Brainstorm ways to save on health insurance costs…Increase 401K contributions to take advantage of company match…
All these items and more are on our financial to-do list. You know what I’m talking about, right? Whether you are just starting to try to control your finances, as my husband and I are, or you are a seasoned pro at personal finance, you probably have a list (written or mental) of how you can improve.
But in the midst of all this progress, it’s important to not lose sight of the things you are doing right. So often, we turn our attentions toward what we need to improve and forget to acknowledge what we’ve been doing well along the way (and thus need to continue doing).
Here’s to an end to that pattern: a post all about my longtime personal finance and frugality habits that I’m happy with and proud of. Because what we do well is just as important to recognize as what we can improve.
Though I am still learning about personal finance every day and always finding new ways to improve, there are lots of things I already do right and have managed to do right all along. For example:
- Dye my hair with drugstore brand dye. No salons, ever (except for occasional cuts. Come on, I’m a girl, and I have curly hair).
- No mani/pedis, except done by me at home.
- No regular spa or massage sessions.
- No gym fees. Exercise at home or outside for the cost of a pair of running shoes (replaced once or twice a year).
- Share one car between two people.
- Rely almost exclusively on public transit for commute to work and many other trips.
- Save on hotel costs and other travel expenses by taking mostly day trips instead of overnights.
- Take the Greyhound instead of a train/plane for short trips (4-5 hours).
- Live in cheapest housing available in decent neighborhoods. (Two people + large dog + small studio apartment? Check.) This makes a huge difference to the bottom line at the end of the month and allows for a little more discretionary spending without guilt.
- Used furniture for most of my adulthood. (Only recently did we buy some new furniture — all at good prices, though).
- No — or close to no — vacations except short road trips or, occasionally, places where we could stay with friends instead of in hotels.
- No trips abroad, no major vacations.
- Stay at lower cost hotels when traveling, except for a few special occasions (such as wedding anniversary). And recently, we have been leaning toward skipping pricey hotels in any circumstances, even on special occasions.
- Bring packed lunch daily.
- Make coffee at home every day rather than buying out.
- No microwave, and no frozen foods (which are usually costlier than making a meal).
- Eat at home regularly. Make meals mostly from scratch. (This is good for health, too.)
- Split one meal between two of us when eating out.
- Mostly order (free) water at restaurants instead of other beverages.
- Quit smoking.
- Rarely drink alcohol.
- No/few concerts and other expensive entertainment. Find low cost entertainment, such as watching videos at home, and, on occasion, attending low price community theater and dance performances.
- Make special occasions cheaper by sharing dessert or appetizers instead of having a full meal. We may go somewhere pricey that we’ve always wanted to try, but we’ll have just a drink and an appetizer there, instead of a full meal.
- Free/cheap recreation such as hiking, swimming, galleries, etc.
- Make own popcorn for movies. Bring candy and drinks to avoid paying high theater prices.
- Limit junk food.
- Miss weddings and other occasions (unfortunately) due to travel costs.
- Return items we don’t like/use/need (in unused condition).
- No expensive beauty services: waxing, eyebrow shaping, highlights, etc. All but cuts done at home. Husband cuts own hair.
- Drink filtered tap water. Avoid buying bottles of water. Bring own water when going out.
- Keep lights off when not needed.
- Rarely use heat or air if not absolutely needed.
- No expensive hobbies or collections.
- Buy used books.
- Make own protein shakes, no Jamba Juice, etc.
- Buy only what is really needed: Skip high-priced electronics and trendy, new gadgets. Buy necessary items with only the features we need. Don’t splurge on luxury add-ons.
- Keep items for as long as possible (I’ve had, for example, the same comforter and TV, and more, since high school. More than 15 years later, I still use these items regularly).
- Buy quality (doesn’t have to mean pricey) and keep it. Save on having to buy regular replacements.
- Make greeting cards instead of buying.
- Planned low-cost wedding without compromising quality and preferences.
- Pay bills on time. No late fees.
- Good credit = good interest rates, better luck with housing and other areas.
- And, a new habit: Once-a-week “meeting of the minds” with my husband about our finances.
What do you think of my frugal habits? What good financial habits do you have that you’re happy with and proud of?
Addendum: M dropped me a line to say that she’s posted two responses to this discussion at her personal site: We are so much richer than you may realize and Response and thoughts on my Get Rich Slowly post.
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I enjoyed this post, although I do different things with money.
I have to respectfully disagree with a commentator. Having a pet is NOT a waste! Pets add much love and joy to people’s lives on a daily basis. They are not a waste of money any more than having a child is a waste of money. I would never consider my child a waste of money, although it’s true we had more money before we had her!
What do we do right? We only take one big vacation a year. I try to use cash instead of credit or debt cards to reduce my impulse spending. I shop with a grocery list and plan meals. We limit our eating out to once a week. I make lunch or dinner for friends and have them over instead of going out all the time. We buy Christmas gifts ahead of time, planning what to buy, so we don’t just drop money on anything. We don’t buy more than one present per person, including for our child, since she gets so much from other people. We take the train into NYC instead of driving and paying to park.
I feel we live a very rich life, and there are certainly more things we could do to cut expenses. I could stop spending so much on my hair, for one! Also, we are not good at saying no to friend-induced travel. I understand that wedding issue very well. I have a situation now with a friend who is getting married on a vacation. We are going but it’s costing us a ton of money, more than what we paid to go see my BIL get married in Ireland for a week! And this is only for a weekend. But yet, although I work part-time, and have a small child and am in the typical can’t-afford-it-category, I said yes and we are going.
Good post!
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By the way Trina we do a lot of what you list too. Reuse baggies (not always, depends on what was in them), cut out or greatly reduce drinking soda, buy less stuff, etc.
A lot of these habits and choices are due to the desire to avoid waste and even greater environmental damage. There is definitely a lot of common ground among those who practice frugality for money’s sake and those who make the same choices for the sake of the environment or simply to reduce waste and excess on ethical grounds. Our choices have to do with all of those reasons as well as with our own personal likes/dislikes.
Simplicity and lack of clutter and enjoying nature and natural foods are part of the type of life I enjoy and work toward living. I really admire how your family lives.
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Thanks EDW. Love your tips, and I’m right there with you on the pet thing!!
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[...] Rich Slowly just featured a guest post by blogger M on her frugal habits. This has inspired me to write about something I’ve been thinking a lot lately. I’ve [...]
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I, too, hope M gets a chance to write about finances and chronic illness. It’s not a pleasant topic, but it’s something that every American needs to know about (most of us will lose our health well before we die).
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What an interesting post! I have to admit, at first I thought, “Why doesn’t this chick get a life?”, but then I read the comments and realized that you most likely have a richer life than I do because of where you have chosen to live. I suppose it comes down to priorities–travel or live in a rockin’ city? I appreciate this article, because it made me think about my own choices.
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Actually many of your frugal lifestyle habits are exactly the same as people here in Japan. Contrary to popular belief, Japanese are not extravagant, and are very thrifty and clever at managing their money, and I’ve learned so much since moving here.
I am amazed at some of the comments here. Spoiled, spoiled, spoiled. Why do people need two cars and a big huge house? And why do you “need” to splurge on a chocolate martini or whatever? Where is it engraved in stone that you have to do/be/have all those things to be happy? You are to be commended for resisting the peer pressure!
Weddings: just curious, but do people splash out for the first wedding only, or for all the subsequent ones too?
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We do a lot of things on that list. One of the things that always amazes me is that people think that giving up going out to eat is a hardship. When I changed jobs – at a significant paycut – we began eating at home more, preparing our meals with meat that we buy in bulk and freeze and vegetables. A year later I don’t think we could go back to the habits that we had when we went out to eat frequently. By bringing our lunch to work and eating at home we have become accostumed to a diet which is lower in grease than most restraunt fare. (We do use a deep fat fryer on occasion and ussually cook with butter or olive oil.) But on the occasion that we do eat out a couple of times in a short period of time niether one of us feels well. By finding meals that require a little amount of prep time (ei the amount of time it would take to go to a restaraunt) we save a lot of money and feel better too!
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Bloggrrl–
Totally appreciate your input, and that you took the time to read my responses in the comments. I was thinking about that after some of this exchange and a commenter’s point about going to Jamaica.
We have beautiful coastline here, easy access to beautiful beaches we can–and do– go to anytime, many sunny days, no rain all summer, beautiful parks and cultural opportunities. A lot of what people travel pretty far for.
Of course the world has much to offer, but I figure a huge percentage of the world does not travel far from home their entire life and somehow manages to be happy. We life in a wonderful vacation destination and take advantage of what it has to offer every day.
And we don’t give up travel by any means just because we haven’t gone abroad. We’ve seen much of what this country has to offer and take plenty of local trips when we can (moterrey, carmel, santa cruz, l.a., napa, mendocino, humboldt county, and on and on, and that’s not counting what san francisco alone has to offer. not trying to brag but point out that we don’t have to go far to enjoy travel), and have some of the best parts of it around us daily. Thanks for letting me know my post was useful for you–I really appreciate it!!
Elizabeth–
I’m with you. I prefer to eat at home over most restaurants. Usually it tastes better, is healthier, and is exactly the way I want it when we make it. And we do eat out, just not often, and when we do, we manage to do it without spending a lot.
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(to m)
sorry to ask, but what do you do for fun? your list seems really strict, but i can definitly understand that you are trying to save, so i guess to each his/her own.
(to everyone)
my good financial habits consist of the following:
- pay more than the minimums on all bills that incur interest.
- pay all other bills on time.
- never go to salons (i’m a former beautician, so i do it all myself, at home)
- drive a moped/walk/take public transportation everywhere
- don’t buy cd’s/listen to internet radio
- only eat out on special occasions/set a limit on what i will spend before i go out
- bargin hunt for everything, from clothes to books to drawing tablets (i’m a graphic designer now, so i need my gadgets)
- don’t use a dryer (hang all my clothes after washing)
- don’t have cable, or a house phone (only a cell)
- i only go to $5 or less movie showings (and yes, they still do exsist, lol)
- try to get as much done as possible before sundown because i have found that after dark, i always feel the need to cut on all the lights to see what i’m doing, and where i’m going (when in the day time i just use free daylight, lol)
- unplug all appliances when they aren’t in use
- no pets
- during sales, i try to buy canned goods in bulk
- clip coupons
- maintain an emergency fund
- eat healthy/do yoga daily (you’d be suprised how a little healthy living will bring your doctor’s visits down to a minimum)
but besides all that, i make it a mandatory to put money towards 2 things in particular – retirement, and fun money. I try to go on vacations at least once a year (I KNOW WHAT YOU’RE THINKING…but there are plently of ways so spend a little to get a lot out of a vacation). you don’t have to go half way around the world to get some much needed r&r. my reasoning for this is that tomorow is not guarenteed. if your only focus in life is saving for the future, than i’m sorry but your missing out on what’s really important – and that’s your life. i had TONS of debt (with only a little more left to tackle), but i budget every penny….and in my experience, if there is a will, there is a way to make anything possible.
good luck to anyone out there who is standing up to take control of your debt!
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I am kind of surprised at some of the comments too. I agree with what the commenter Jason said, he basically said most of what I wanted to say.
I don’t know how some the people commenting live or what your income is, but my wife and I are trying to live by our own means. We don’t have large salaries and we don’t have support from our parents like some others might have. We are trying to pay off debt, save a little for the future, and live on one and a half (or less) salaries.
Also I don’t feel that we are all that frugal, we try to save money when we can and plan for the future. I am glad some of you out there think we’re frugal. That makes me feel like I am doing something right, unfortunately with all that we do or maybe don’t do we still don’t have much left over to save. Maybe we are more simple, but most of the points M’s list we would be doing whether we had more money or not.
I also think there are a lot of people that think spending money equates to a “good” life or not spending money equate a “bad” life. a miserable life is one’s own choice.
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m,
I think your list is great, and it’s wonderful you that you choose to be so financially responsible. It’s also a sad statement on America’s over-privileged, indebted attitude that people think you are being excessively frugal. Since when did manicures, spa treatments, eating out, and taking extended vacations become a right? And since when did not doing these things equate to not having a life?
I also miss at least half of the weddings I am invited to. If I can’t afford them, there is no obligation to attend and I am comfortable setting my own financial boundaries and priorities. I send my well-wishes, and in some ways I am happy to not be contributing to the insane wedding industry where people go into debt for insanely expensive and drawn out affairs at expensive locations. On the other hand, because I prioritize my spending, I have traveled to over 30 countries and can afford to go without working for chunks of time while I travel. While others see your list as excessively frugal, I see it as a list that allows you to do whatever it is you really care about.
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M–
The kinds of choices you list are similar to those I’ve had to make out of necessity over the last 20 years. Life can throw you a few curves, like unemployment, child support, and the like, so it’s not possible to satisfy every want . . . and habitual accumulated expenses affect the budget most, not the singular treats. My husband and I made the decision to give our daughter a private education through high school because the local school district was so bad, but we’re sending her to a local junior college for the first two years instead of room/board/tuition at a university. That’s one example of choice.
Other little things I’ve done for years:
-Only run the dishwasher when it’s full, and use half the amount of detergent called for (cleans just as well, or better!)
-Set the heat pump to hold at 80* in the summer, and use fans in occupied rooms
-Adjust the water level of the washing machine to match the load
-Hang up laundry while half-dry
-Buy household and cleaning supplies at dollar stores, not grocery stores
-Buy items we constantly use in bulk when it’s a good price (or even when it’s regular price…it saves a trip later)
-Transfer credit card balances to no-interest offers and pay them off on-time
-Tithe…it’s financial insurance
-Use Craigslist or eBay to sell or buy like-new items at deep discounts
-List every charity donation and deduct it from taxes
–Buy 15 pair of all-matching socks when they’re on sale (this simplifies my life, too)
Anyone could argue with my choices, just as they have with yours. But the point is for us to take the best ideas from others and use those that make sense for us. Little adjustments become habits that, when combined, equal an increased ability to afford the kind of life YOU want, not the life Madison Ave. wants you to have.
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Set yourself goals and treat yourself to something extra nice when you’ve achieved one. When you have a tight budget you’ll learn to appreciate a little luxury more when you don’t have it all the time. Goals can also motivate.
Here in Finland it’s also quite cheap to do combat sports (such as kickboxing, thaiboxing). You’ll also get personal training for a cheaper price than in most other sports and they are very effective in keeping you fit. There are fitness oriented groups for these hobbies, so you don’t have to aim for having a full-contact match.
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i can’t believe how many people take sicko as gospel.
M, i just don’t get the part about not having a microwave. when we cook, we normally cook to have leftovers, in which case a microwave is handy to heat things up quickly. if we had to reuse the stove or oven to do so, it would take longer and it would consume more energy than the microwave.
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These comments are interesting; I had similar thoughts, but didn’t expect anyone to be so put off by your behaviors. Like you said, it’s implied that the writing is from the writer’s perspective.
Having said that, I look 1000 times better when my eyebrows are waxed. $8.00 a month is entirely worth the self-esteem boost. And sometimes the dry heels get out of hand, so I need professional assistance in the form of a pedicure. I also don’t enjoy used/secondhand anything; it’s very “college lifestyle” to me, and I’m over that. I’d rather spend the intial cash on a piece to call my own, mainly because other people often have a very good reason for giving stuff away.
Everything else is spot on, though. Good on you!
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Tim–
We don’t like microwaves, for health reasons, they also take up a good bit of space in small kitchens (which we’ve always had generally), and we cook our foods from scratch and almost never eat frozen foods (except occasionally pizza). If we have leftovers, it takes us a few seconds to heat them on a pan on the stove top.
I think some of the points of my post have been lost or unclear, but the original point was to describe things I’ve been doing my whole life that also happen to be frugal, not things I necessarily chose to do because I wanted to be frugal. I hope that helps explain this issue more.
We don’t not have a microwave because we think it’s frugal, we don’t have one because we don’t want one. But in not having one, we do end up benefiting and saving, because we don’t buy frozen foods and food from scratch is cheaper and healthier.
Yeah, some of these things would maybe change if I had more money; most wouldn’t. And that was my point, I’ve been doing these things simply because I WANT to and I CHOOSE to and they just happen to also be frugal and help me save money.
And I thought it was important to recognize those things and be proud of choosing a lifestyle that prioritizes frugality–especially since it is a frugality that is born out of a desire to not waste money, to live within my means, to live simply, to limit my environmental “footprint”, and to live in accordance with my values.
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Tim:
I don’t think people are taking Sicko as “gospel.” I think they’re seeing that the health insurance system we currently have in this country is not necessarily working in the populous’ best interest(s), and the ultimate goal is not to keep people healthy (which is something that is good for every citizen), but to spend less money while making more. Do you have a chronic illness? Do you have health insurance? Have you always had health insurance?
You have to consider that some people might have taken the movie more seriously than you because it may have more personal relevance to them, for whatever reason.
I can’t believe people still can’t believe that not every damn body is going to think what they think.
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You’ve brought up some great tips there M, It’s certainly a lot more extreme than what I could handle so I commend you for having such discipline with money. I could not live without travel, both national and international and because of this have discovered cheaper ways to travel and learnt to go without other things so I can save for this.
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I’ll join in with some things that I do that I’m actually proud of
I walk everywhere I can
I take the bus where I cannot walk
I find the cheapest train tickets for long distance travel
I stay in your hostels when I travel abroad
I shop around for the best financial products
I shop around for utilities
I have a budget
I acquired a free tv
I don’t have satellite or cable
I don’t buy dvds
I buy my families gifts when they are on sale
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One thing I’m doing right: My emergency fund process. Each week, any spare $ from my allowance goes into a small stash in the house. (Minimum of $5 per week, even if I have to take it from next week’s allowance.) If I run through my allowance, I penalize myself by dropping an extra $5 into the fund from next week’s allowance. When the fund reaches $500, I drop it into my ING account to open a CD or T-bill.
If I had just left the remainder of my allowance in my pocket, I’d end up finding something to spend it on. This way, I rescue it from temptation. It has allowed me to divert over $6500 into long-term savings.
Last, I don’t believe M deserves a lot of the judgmental and flat-out nitty comments here. The title is “What I’m Doing Right,” not “What All of You Should Be Doing Like Me.”
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I think this post might have been easier to understand had you included some of those personal details about your life in the original post. Instead we have to find out in the comments
Though I can understand maybe not wanting people to know your personal bits at first. I’m a fairly private person.
It seems as though your tips are good for people with a very particular set of circumstances in their life.
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I was suprised by the comments too. I expected people to leave lists of what they were doing right. Not nitpicking over your list and complaining as if you were forcing it on them. (We also do the majority, if not all of the things on your list and I was shocked to see that people thought you were depriving yourself.)
About a half a year ago I was reading a financial advice book and really getting down on myself for my “financial to-do list” that just seemed so overwhelming. Due to my daughter’s medical condition only one of us can work and we’re only in our late-twenties so we don’t make fabulous salaries yet. Then I read Automatic Millionaire and it affirmed what I had been doing right all along. I’ve had a 401(k) since I was 24 and never thought twice about it. After reading that book I logged on to see what was in my account and my jaw dropped at how quickly 10% of my check really added up. That really was very encouraging and a turning point for me. It’s important to focus on all the good financial habits you have instead of always beating yourself up for the things you haven’t gotten to yet. I think that was the point of the post and I’m sorry some seemed to have missed that.
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I would also like to hear more about finances and chronic illness. I’m just starting to really get a handle on my finances this year, and I’ve often wondered about this subject because I know so little about it.
I think M’s list is great, and obviously works for her specific situation. A ciascuno il suo–to each his (or her) own, right? If I had a chronic illness, I wouldn’t be worried about trips to Europe, either.
I occasionally get mani/pedis, but more often I do them myself because I’m actually really good at it. I do pay $50 plus tip for a haircut every other month. I have a lot of very wavy, unruly hair. I’ve TRIED less expensive salons, I’ve even tried MORE expensive salons, but I found the perfect hairdresser, she’s $50, and I’ll gladly pay to save myself frustration with my hair every morning. Anyway, that’s my hair rant.
What we are doing to save:
-We rarely eat out. We both love to cook, and I’m a bit of a food snob, so many restaurants just don’t appeal to me.
-We live rent-free next door to my parents. It’s out in the country, and I drive to work with my dad. Not for everyone, not even an option for everyone, but we are paying off debt like crazy, and soon we’ll be saving some serious money and then building a house.
-We plan to live in the house we build forever, and we’re making it very energy-efficient. No buying-up all our lives. We want to use extra cash for travel.
-Garden. We have so many tomatoes, we’ve had to can them this year.
-Netflix over movie theatre. I get to eat better food and sit on a comfy couch with my cat. If it’s a movie we’re super-excited about, then we might go.
-I get great beauty products cheap. A close friend is a makeup artist, another friend works for a well-known haircare distributor.
-I’ve paid off about $12000 of debt (it wasn’t all consumer debt) in one year. My last payment will be October 15.
-My fiance’s vehicle is paid off. Mine will be paid off soon. Our goal is to pay cash when we have to replace his truck.
I still have a long way to go, and I still drop money on some stupid stuff. We’re geting married, and I spent a lot on the photographer. My reasoning is that I love photography, and we’ll look at those photos for the rest of our lives. I didn’t NEED to have this photographer, but like I said, I’m just learning how to be more reasonable, so…baby steps.
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Issa, when one touts something like “sicko” as reference for fact, that is treating it as gospel. but post isn’t about health care system.
M, ok, i get the space limitations. i’m still not getting the cost efficiency of running the stove/oven to heat versus microwave, though and having a microwave doesn’t mean you have to use it for frozen foods. i’m not trying to convince you to go out and buy a microwave oven, i’m just not getting the logic other than not wanting one. this is rational enough.
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This was a great post! I forwarded it to my husband. We’re about to enter a lean period, and a lot of these suggestions will be really useful to us.
Here’s a couple things we’re doing right:
* Try not to buy anything new. Look for anything you need in thrift stores or on Freecycle.
* Netflix over new movies, and the library over Netflix.
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I read a couple of the comments before the article and was expecting it to be much worse … we do a lot of these and from your comments it seems we earn more too. And we don’t have a car. But we vacation very well, including abroad at least once a year as we’re both immigrants (lots of use of airmiles & free hotel nights with points from our SPG credit cards though), and eat very well, supporting local farmers markets and small businesses. Oh and we don’t miss weddings.
It’s funny to see slams in the same comment thread (!) on frugal people being cheap and miserable and people who go on vacations as splurgers. As long as you have some degree of enjoyment from your earnings, don’t feel deprived, and your system works for you it’s all good!
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I am surprised by the comments. I personally do almost all of the things m mentioned on her list, and on a few of the items listed I am even more frugal. I don’t consider this extreme at all. There are still many things that I would like to be more frugal on. I am motivated not only by the desire to save money, but also by environmental reasons.
This is not deprivation, folks. It is freeing to not have to worry about money because you have your spending under control. You can have plenty of fun for free or almost free!
We are so spoiled in North America that we don’t understand how unnecessary many of our expenditures are. Air travel is not a necessity! It is extravagant to take annual vacations abroad. Plus it is damaging to our planet.
Here are my frugal things that I think I’m doing right (other than the ones listed by m:
- We are car-free, relying entirely on public transportation.
- We cut each other’s hair.
- We do not worry about keeping up with fashion.
- We don’t own many different pairs of shoes at a time (maybe two pairs plus one pair of boots), although we try to buy quality, comfortable footwear.
- I buy some of my clothes at thrift stores.
- I mend our clothes myself. I bought an old sewing machine so I can do more extensive mending, as well as making some things.
- We rarely see a movie in the theatre (we do have a subscription to a DVD-rental-by-mail program).
- We don’t worry about keeping up with the Joneses. If other people spend lots of money and get into debt, that’s their issue.
- We have only one TV and it’s certainly older and low-end.
- We don’t subscribe to cable. We get only a few channels (which we rarely watch).
- Most of our furniture is hand-me-downs.
- Our appliances are either hand-me-downs or purchased second-hand. (I do realize that new appliances would use less energy though…)
- We don’t have cell phones.
- We rarely make long-distance calls.
- We don’t give expensive gifts and we give only to immediate family.
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M sounds like a stick in the mud.
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I’m one of the biggest hippies I know when it comes to saving the planet, but I am not going to apologize for wanting to travel and see the world…not just the US. So I guess I am spoiled. I’ve been to Europe once, and it was absolutely incredible, and I am going back. I’ve been to many places in the US, and it isn’t the same no matter how you slice it. Experiencing other cultures is life-altering.
We also do not have cable (nor do we want it), we have older tvs, etc., etc. Those are all things I don’t really care about. It’s a matter of deciding what’s important to you and where you want to spend your money. I wonder why those of us who prioritize travel are called “spoiled,” as though the person passing judgement is exempt? Being frugal isn’t a contest.
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M:
Sorry to hear about your illness. It definitely changes the context of your post and makes some of the things that I thought were a bit over the top, more understandable.
Your story makes me greatful for my health, as well as grateful for the country I live in (Canada) where we don’t have to worry about dire financial situations due to illness.
All the best!
I do agree with cm as well, in that, if you travel to 3rd World countries, in the end it is a savings as it often reminds me of how little I really need on a day to day basis.
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April, if you’re referencing my post, I said “we” are spoiled. Then I gave one example (air travel). I definitely include myself in the “spoiled” category, but I am spoiled in other ways (for example, my diet).
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My point is that calling people out over what they chose to spend their money on is just as judgemental as those who take issue with how M chooses to save her money. This was not directed at one person’s post in particular. I have just noticed that on some of the financial blogs commenters get a little carried away judging how others’ spend their money, as though they are somehow better.
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I have to agree with the second comment. Your cuts sound miserable. Granted, I can maintain my pedicures just fine at home on my own, but once in a while, I deserve to have someone buff and polish and massage my feet. I feel like a new person afterward.
There should be balance to everything. Maybe because of all this, you’ll end up rich in the end, who knows. But when you finally have all that money you were working for, are you going to have any idea how to relax and enjoy it?
I just think that by cutting too much out of your recreational budget you’ll make yourself crazy.
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wow! M: I have to write to express my admiration of you. My first instinct was also to say, “Sounds dreary”, but I decided to read the posts first, and am so glad I didn’t post that and come off sounding like a typical spoiled, shallow American. Especially when people from other countries chimed in did I feel a bit ashamed. I do almost nothing of what you said, and wish I did. My “dreary” summation was a knee-jerk reaction of guilt and defensiveness over My Own Personal Decision to live so wastefully and extravagantly. But, if that’s my choice, why do I need to defend it? And I hate that others seemed to think you needed to defend Your choices. The reason I wanted to defend My waste is that I know it’s wrong, in my gut, I don’t feel entitled to this lifestyle. None of us are. The way we live here in this country leaves such a burden on our earth. Very few people seemed to consider that. It was all mostly about one’s own wants and desires. For instance, taking the bus vs. personal automobile was compared on a cost basis. What about taking the bus to generate less carbon? What about sharing a meal to consume less calories, since half of America (myself included) is overweight? What about buying second hand to reduce production waste and carbon from delivery trucks? What about not having a gym membership just so as not to have to spend gas (by bus or car) to get to that gym? I could go on and on with this, but what is very clear from this thread is the blatant selfishness that has been fostered in this country (and rapidly other countries,as well). Don’t get me wrong; we are blessed to live here, but I think we get way too carried away with the “happiness” we think we are pursuing.
If you get a chance, read “Letters of a Homesteading Woman”, by Elinore Pruitt Stewart. This woman was not perfect, but she was definitely was happier than most of us can hope to be and she had to plant the potatoes she ate, milk her cows, and make her own clothes, and never once ate in a restaurant at all, much less “appetizers”. THAT is what the American way used to be. Where did we go so wrong?
Lastly, I felt ill reading all the uproar about your not attending weddings! When two people marry, why does that circumstance demand the attendance of others? I would never dream of placing that expectation upon anyone but my parents. Again, in days gone by, weddings were very simple affairs, attended by very few people, for the most part. I usually just send a gift, unless I know someone would be heartbroken not to have me there. Often (though not always) it’s really the gift that’s looked for, anyway. I’m not the one they are marrying. Not to sound harsh, it can be lovely to have your friends in attendance, but so much of that feeling is built up by the way weddings are marketed today. If people were told/advertised/noticed that they “should” be solemn, private, even secret, most people would likely go along with that within a couple of generations.
Your responses to everyone were so civil and calm and fair. I wish I could be that sort of person. But, I’m too busy spending, consuming and wasting time to develop that sort of character.
I wish all the best to you and your family.
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If you don’t mind me asking, how much do you make a year (or at least, together with your husband)?
Missing out on vacations, traveling abroad, and especially once-in-a-lifetime events seems way overkill, and reducing the stuff you do in life, as well as some of the other stuff you mentioned. Traveling is amazing, and unless you make collectively 50k a year or less, which is doubtful, it seems like its a bit overkill. Put in the max amount of money into 401(k)’s and Roth IRA’s, save some to invest in various things, but you might consider upgrading your lifestyle a bit. ESPECIALLY before kids, since when you have them (if you do), you pretty much *cant* do that kind of stuff anymore.
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traveling is great…it makes me really appreciate civilization.
i’m not sure what a hippie is anymore considering that all the hippies i know are now wealthy, mass consuming yuppies. i liked April D’s comment about frugality not being a contest.
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I’m also in the camp of not thinking these lifestyle choices are overly frugal. Like some of the commenters here, I also follow quite of the few items on your list.
Perhaps presenting those ideas in such a long list made the ideas as a whole seem more restricting than they really are. Picking the top few things you do that you are most proud of could make the post seem less “miserable” to those who enjoy the things you don’t mind refraining from.
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Hey All,
There are a lot of new comments today, some of which make similar points as the ones from yesterday, which I replied to. I will do my best to reply to some of the main new points and reiterate my purpose for this post (which clearly was lost in many interpretations of the post). And I will write a final general response in another comment. Thanks to all who read and commented, and especially to those who shared thier own lists!!
Sara–
Yes, yes, yes! You say “It’s important to focus on all the good financial habits you have instead of always beating yourself up for the things you haven’t gotten to yet. I think that was the point of the post and I’m sorry some seemed to have missed that”
You are right on. That was one of my main points here, and thus why I opened with that statement.
Tim–
Not sure what else to say about the microwave besides what I already said. It was not a financial decision. However wefeel it saves us money because it prevents us from succumbing to the easy lure of fast, frozen foods, which are less healthy (leads to higher medical costs possibly) and often cost more than foods made from scratch. That does not mean you or anyone else need feel the same way–only that this is our interpretation of how not having a microwave benefits us financially and otherwise.
Telly–
Don’t let my illness change the context, because as I said several times in the context, we’ve been living our life this way for a lot longer than my illness has been a real, financial issues. As me and my husband said, we would continue most of these habits regardless of money and we made most of the choices not so we could have more money and not because we don’t have enough money to do the things we aren’t doing but because is almost all of the cases, we do not WANT to spend our money on those things.
OneYearOneGoal–
“I think it’s better to live well and increase your income than turn your life into one big chore…but have money to not spend.” Great point. However, our choices are not really related to our income, so this point does not apply to us. Great for others who may benefit from your advice though.
LK–
I know there are lots of comments, but I think I answered your questions in other comments. To answer briefly, most of these decisions are not motivated by the desire to save money, so I hope that helps answer your questions about our choices.
Melissa A.–
“. . . but if I want to do something big with my money I’ll do it.” Me too.
db–
“And I bet if there was a trip you REALLY wanted to take, you’d find a way to do it.”
You got it!
Rika–
“Where is it engraved in stone that you have to do/be/have all those things to be happy? You are to be commended for resisting the peer pressure!”
Ah, a person after my own heart–love it!
Elizabeth–
“By bringing our lunch to work and eating at home we have become accostumed to a diet which is lower in grease than most restraunt fare. ”
Yes, this is one of our main reasons for eating at home as well I am not into grease, nor bits of meat mixed into my vegetarian dinner, which happens more often than you’d think when eating out or getting take out.
Ree D–No pets and only $5 movies?! Seriously, what on earth do you do for fun?! Just joking!! Just wanted to show what’s it’s like to read half of these comments the past two days. No, seriously though I’ve got no problem answering your question, except that I think I’ve answered it more than once in the comments. Would you mind going back and reading those?
No? Okay, a brief list: reading, writing, painting, drawing, watching movies and videos, taking my dog out, going to the beach, going to art museums, opera, therater, ballet, symphony, art gallery openings, dinner parties, walks, jogging, road trips, exploring the city, going to the library, going to the bookstore, anything I do with my husband, seeing friends, cooking, baking, doing anything creative, hiking, exploring nature, swinging (on a swingset), swimming, museums, independent film, documentaries, visiting local destinations, etc.
Kristina–
“While others see your list as excessively frugal, I see it as a list that allows you to do whatever it is you really care about.”
Yes!!!! What is seriously going ignored–for some reason–is I have been doing nearly all these things all along because I WANT TO, not because I feel I need to or have to. The other thing people are missing: I do not WANT to spend my money on most of the things I’m not spending it on. How is doing things just the way you want them miserable? Beats me.
Rue–
Great tips, for anyone who wants to use them. Thanks for sharing.
Issa–
Thanks!
Iva–
No discipline required, since these are our voluntary choice! But thanks for the compliment.
Mark–
The list isn ot intended to be “good finance” It is intended to be habits I’ve had all along (as it says in the post) by my own choosing and preference that also happen to have the side effect of being frugal.
Peachy–
No, not saving for any particular thing. As I’ve said numerous times, we don’t do these things to save, we do them because we choose not to spend our money in certain ways, that includes certain expensive trips that strain our finances.
Mark–
Not sure where you saw the implication that these tips are considered “right” for anyone other than myself (and my husband). I think you are reading into it something that is not there, and certainly was not my intention.
plonkee–
Great list, thank you. You’re one of few who shared their list, exactly what I was hoping people would do! ravel
Schizohedron–
Thanks for sharing what you do “right.”
“Last, I don’t believe M deserves a lot of the judgmental and flat-out nitty comments here. The title is “What I’m Doing Right,” not “What All of You Should Be Doing Like Me.””
Boy, do I agree with you there!
Melissa A (your second comment)–
It’s got nothing to do with privacy. I didn’t include those details because it isn’t relevant to the point of my post. The point was to celebrate my regular habits that I believe also happen to benefit my finances. The context I supplied in the comments only provides info. for those who chose to assume that my post was some sort of deprivation list rather than my personal volantary decisions based on things I mostly simply do not care to spend on, either because I simply don’t value that thing or because I value it somewhat but not enough to live outside of my means.
April D–
thanks for your list.
“If I had a chronic illness, I wouldn’t be worried about trips to Europe, either.” We were not going to europe before my illness either, so it’s not really very related.
Guiness–
“As long as you have some degree of enjoyment from your earnings, don’t feel deprived, and your system works for you it’s all good!” Yup!!
Monica–
LOVE your list and dare I say about your statement: “There are still many things that I would like to be more frugal on.” Me too!!! Ha ha, I’m sure some of the commenters here are really shaking their heads over that one.
But I am so with on this: “I am motivated not only by the desire to save money, but also by environmental reasons.” Yes, so much of our choices above arem otivated by a desire to not be wasteful, to eliminate excess, etc.
That’s what so many aren’t getting. Most of this has NOTHING to do with wanting to save money, it has to do with life choices and values. For ex. we don’t see the point in living in a big house, wasting a ton of energy and resources, when we fit just fine into a smaller space and can use the resources of the city without adding trmendous environmental impace by driving all over to do our daily errands. The list is things I WANT to do, but that they happen to save us some money is a side bonus.
I think you are pretty similar to us in your motivation and that’s great to see!! I’m surprised and somewhat saddened at how many see this as a sad existance and think that in itself a sad statement on what many think it takes to be happy or live a full life.
Aprild D–(your second comment)
Why do you think you need to apologize for travelling? Who has made this a contest in your eyes? Certainly not me, but perhaps you are referring to some commenter.
Chris R–
“*No — or close to no — vacations except short road trips
*or, occasionally, places where we could stay with friends instead of in hotels.
*Stay at lower cost hotels when traveling,
*except for a few special occasions (such as wedding anniversary). ”
The above means we DO travel, only that we do it in a cheaper way and stay away from lengthy, or very long distance trips. It is stated that we go on short trips, that we go on bigger trips but stay with friends or in cheaper lodging and that for special occasions, we have splurged on higher cost hotels. How does that translate to not traveling? Though even if it did, I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.
And, do I mind if you ask how much I make? No, I don’t. Will I tell you? Of course not.
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Hey All,
Wow this has been a lively, interesting discussion.
I tried to respond to everyone who wrote in and I’m sorry if I missed any of you.
As you can see my comments have been frequent and lengthy, however, I simply don’t think I can respond as I’d truly like in a coment.
As I began to write a final response to address your comments and questions in a more holistic way and in a broader context, I realized that there is too much to say to squeeze into a comment.
I will be posting my thoughts on my personal blog and hope to see some of you there later today. I hope J.D. does not mind, but I simply feel a post is more appropriate in this context, than another lengthy comment.
Thanks to all of you who wrote in and thanks so much to J.D. for featuring my post. Thanks J.D.!
The post is not up yet, but should be up later today. I invite to read and respond there if you wish. M’s Blog is at cottoncandypink.blogspot.com.
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I don’t believe this one: Husband cuts own hair. How could a man cuts his own hair? Probably his is a jarhead or something similar?
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There’s a line between being financially responsible and ridiculous. Live life a little while you’re young. You may never get to see the rainy day you’re squirreling away for.
The thing about money is that there’s always more of it out there, you’ll never be able to go to Paris in you’re mid-20s again.
-d
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d–
I’m not sure why you assume I’m in my mid twenties, nor what you know of my finances to assume that what I am doing is ridiculous as opposed to sound. I’d advise you to assume less and to read my upcoming post on my blog if you’re truly interested in learning about my choices and my life rather than simply judging it based on an 800 word post. Thanks for writing.
M
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I’d just like to chime in and say that at first, I didn’t understand that you were happy with the ways you were saving the money (as I personally enjoy going new places, flying on planes, and love my local sushi restaurant) , but once I read the comments, I understood your priorities better and can see why you’re happy with the choices you make and the lifestyle you lead. Being down in SJ, I know people in SF can get a very rich cultural experience for not too much money, along with some rather decent (for California) public transportation.
Here’s one thing I am proud of: I’ve always been able to save towards a goal, even if I need to reduce my current lifestyle to get it. It’s just asking the “Creme Brulee question”: http://wellheeled.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/do-i-want-a-___-or-do-i-want-a-house/
Right now, for me, it is a car, vacation, savings, and house. I’m not as frugal as many because I enjoy certain things like eating out or reading books. In order to save a bit more, I’ve adjusted my food budget a little to spend less on lunch so I can go out for dinner once in a while. Given myself a book budget and sell the books on eBay after I’m done, if I really can’t wait for it from the library (Books are one of those “gotta have” things).
I also pick the less expensive employee group outings to socialize at, so my face is still seen and I’m considered a team player without breaking the bank.
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I hope you will take the time to visit my blog and read the posts I wrote in response to your comments and questions. They can be found at:
http://cottoncandypink.blogspot.com/2007/08/response-and-thought-on-comments-on-my.html
and
http://cottoncandypink.blogspot.com/2007/08/we-are-so-much-richer-than-you-may.html
One of the posts is pasted here, below. It is in response to questions about what I do with my time and money and how I can be happy living the life I lead.
It’s not easy to sum up a life, to sum up joy or pleasure or feeling. It’s certainly not possible for me to convey all of the things that make my life great, the things I give thanks for everyday. To try to explain how happy my life is in 500 words or less? Just not possible. But to relay a glimpse, a sense of what it is to be me. I certainly can try, so long as you remember that what’s in here is just the smallest portion of my life’s joy.
****
We spend many summer weekends as if we are at a country club, with games of tennis played under the warm glow of the hot western sun, or beneath the bright light of the moon, with beautifully lit hills sparkling in the distance, and the cool bay breeze blowing through our hair. Midday is often spent relaxing by the pool, followed by a 20-30 minutes of swimming laps and enjoying one another’s company in the weightlessness of the water.
In winter, we ice skate beneath the lights of the city, in the shadow of skyscrapers and the gravity defying hills. We stroll among holiday lights and photograph towering trees covered in lights and bows. We wander the financial district and the nooks of our region, looking for signs of holiday joy. We sip warm cider and cover ourselves in a throw and watch Christmas movies and play along to our favorite holiday songs. I make hot chocolate and cuddle up with my two favorites, my husband and a book. We talk and dream and give thanks for all we have.
We pore through cookbooks and magazines, planning menus and dreaming up holiday favors and table arrangements. We feed our friends and fill our home with the smells, and sights of the holidays. Our tree is decorated with favors for friends to take home, our counters with boxes in which to stuff the rich desserts and appetizers we’ve spent days preparing for them. Our mantel is crowded with messages of love and holiday cheer. Our outbox filled with homemade cards to remind our loved ones what they mean to us.
We wander the streets of our neighborhood, amazed by the rows of luminaries arranged one after the other on narrow sidewalks. We drive through neighborhoods, looking for lights and the most extravagant decorations, the inflatable Santas. We stroll city streets, and watch as the city comes to life, full of shoppers bundled in winterwear carrying bags and sipping hot chocolates and gingerbread lattes. We admire the decorations in all the shops, loving the old city feel of crowds of pedestrians flocking to the city center for holiday errands. We make up stories and imagine lives of those we see, are they going home to a warm fireplace, to the love s of their lives, to a house full of children clamoring for holiday sweets and presents?
Throughout the year, we hike in the hills, and marvel over the views that stretch from hills to flatlands to bay and mountains. We enjoy evening walks in the residential and commercial districts in our neighborhood, and we admire the varied and lovely architecture of the region and comment on the succulents and other beautiful plants we encounter on the way. We picnic on soft beds of cool grass and lay on our backs and watch the clouds. We jog through some of the most picturesque paths in the area, never neglecting to stop and point out the beauty of the city skyline and the quiet, lull of the gentle waves splashing on the rocks.
We travel a few miles to the city and walk the various neighborhoods, taking in the people, and sounds, and places unique to the place that we love so and call home. We window shop and browse in tiny boutiques, photograph the sites that we want to imprint forever in our memories. We sit on the floor in dusty old bookstores and feel the ghosts of the authors we admire and of those who shared this beautiful city before we even ever came to be. We flip through novels and poems and books full of art and dream and think and feel inspired.
We stroll among beautiful and fragrant plants from all over our state and the world, taking time to sit on a bench in silence at a botanical garden and remember that we are all following the cycles of nature, even if we sometimes forget how much we have in common with other animals and even plants, all of us just following the cycles of life.
We stare at paintings from years and centuries past, hold our noses close to a canvas touched by van Gogh, by Lichtenstien, by Joan Brown, and Basquiat. We remember that no one appreciated van Gogh until he had long left this earth, and we mourn for what he suffered and give thanks for the joy that he brings us today. We go home and pull out canvases and paints and make a mess while we make something more than the sum of just paints and brushes and paper.
We attend the opening night at local galleries, talking and mingling with those who value creating in their lives, who have so much to say and sometimes say it in pictures and color and brushstrokes instead of in words. We walk among crowds and marvel that it is our work that covers the walls and that it is our creations that brought people here. We feel part of our community and it is a community we love and have chosen despite occasional hardships.
We sit quietly in a room and cross our legs and let our minds soar far away while a stick of incense burns and the world is silent and still. We learn about Buddhism and sit on cushions with strangers who are just like us, seeking and trying and learning and being. We carry stacks of books in our arms and a week later go back for more and more and more. We read the words of others and are transported to another place and time, and yet we are more ourselves within those pages than we sometimes are anyplace else. We go home and put finger to keyboard and hope what we do brings a sense of belonging to someone else. We hope that by living our dreams we inspire someone else to remember theirs.
We drive a short distance and find ourselves on a secluded beach, on an empty trail, in an abandoned alley. We are inspired by those settings to take photographs and write posts, and stories, and make paintings and drawings and sculpture. We lay on the sand and watch the waves hit the shore, pointing and asking each other if our eyes play tricks on us or if we saw what we thought, a walrus, an otter, or was it just a wave?
We dream, and think, talk, and sing. We make music, and art, and see beauty in a fallen leaf, or a puff of cloud. We read, and watch. We create beauty through food and art and even our home. We strive to be good and then to be better and we laugh and love and care and help and share and give. We create stories and listen to stories and remember that we are living and trying and learning as we go, as our ancestors did before us and theirs before them.
We take pleasure in our strength, our want for knowledge, our love, our capacity for laughter and pleasure and caring and joy and thought and feeling. We know love and pleasure are contained in all the things that are free, that have withstood time and will be here long after man has gone on his way and the things he has brought with him have long been forgotten. We look up at the stars and are content.
We spend evenings watching the sculpted bodies of trained dancers, twirling in toile and color and light, moving in rhythm to accomplished musicians. We might close our eyes and feel we transcend place and time, open them and the human spirit and passion astound us. We hear thousands moved solely by the voice of a woman on a stage; we witness those who have given their lives to art move us in ways that we can’t find the words to express.
Afterward, we share a tray of lovely miniature desserts and creamy cheeses, and feel so happy that we are who we are, where we are, and that we have each other. We are in one of the most celebrated restaurants in one of the most cherished cities in the world, but all we know is we walked here, (me) wobbling in high wedges on cobblestone, and took a place at the bar and celebrated our love and our live and our home with a glass of champagne and delicious food.
Later, when we’re at home, we lay in our bed, hear the whistle of trains as they pass through on their journeys across this great land, and we remember all we have seen and been, and know that we would not change a thing. From the bustle of the city, the steamy subways in New York’s summer heat, the boardwalks and funnel cakes and ferris wheels of East Coast beach resorts, the national landmarks of our once mid-atlantic home, to the swampy South, and midwestern plains, the deserts and desolation and two lane highways and no stoplight towns of the southwest, the soft flakes of snow that fell on us in Flagstaff and the blizzard that sent us scurrying for shelter in the Texas panhandle, to the rocky coast of the Mendocino shore, and the fragrance of jasmine and the storied romance of the Hollywood hills, we give thanks for the beauty of this land and for all we have been privileged to see within it. Happiest of all is the knowledge that the sea and sky, hills and bay, mountains and skyscrapers, the place we call home, we could never set foot outside of it again, and we would still be happy.
When we close our eyes and end again another night we know we are rich and we are happy not for all we have had or seen and done, but for who we are and for who we have in our lives. Once we were told that we were so rich, “because you have each other,” the woman said. Easy for her to say, we thought, she has a large home in the hills, no struggles with money, no illness she can’t afford to pay for. But then we realized she’d spoken the truest words of all, we had all we needed to be happy right there in front of us: ourselves and our love.
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My wife and I got spent $1000 on on our wedding AND honeymoon including the dress, catering, a week at a condo in the mountains, and everything else. But that was 17 years ago…
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M,
I, too, tend to live the same way. In fact, I wrote about it for msn Money in a couple of articles: “Surviving And Thriving On $12,000 A Year” and “Living ‘Poor’ And Loving It.” And I, too, got a lot of comments — some of them quite nasty — from people who decided that my life was miserly and disgusting and that I couldn’t possibly be happy.
On the contrary: I’m pretty darned content. I’m not insisting that *everyone* live this way — I was just writing about what worked for me.
It sounds as though it works for you, too. Good luck with your financial goals.
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Most of the list is doable. Maybe one or two are too extreme for me, but I do other things which she could think are extreme. It’s not a recipe, it’s a menu. That’s why I don’t understand most of the comments here. Take what is doable for you, and if you think it is impractical, just forget it. Why do commenters think they hold the “secret of happiness” so they can judge the way other people live their lives?
A lot of impolite comments here, guess money cannot buy everything afterall.
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I think a lot of the posters here need to slow down and re-read the post — if you do so, and take time to do it without thinking it’s all about you — I think you’d have a much better understanding of what this post was about.
“Live life while you’re young!” — well, heck. What does that mean, that once we’re old we aren’t supposed to be living life? Living life happens every moment, not simply the ones spent on expensive vacations, and it’s not found at the mall.
The motto should really be Live life sustainably — live life in a manner where you know you will be able to enjoy the quality of your life every moment for the long haul.
M sounds supremely happy to me and I’m thrilled for her and her husband! They’ve really got it figured out.
DB
P.S. — I am still really bugged by the whole idea people have that you’re missing out by not going away on wedding trips, etc. — it’s astounding to me especially with how easily we divorce that we also have such irrational expectations around weddings. I have only travelled for one wedding ever, and it was an ok time but for the money I spent I would have lived life far better to have stayed home.
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M: >the smallest portion of my life’s joy
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