Sometimes I wonder: Have I always had personal finance conversations all the time? I don’t often initiate them, but money seems to be a constant topic, even when people are unaware that I write about it every day.
Just this morning, for example, I met with a fellow who needs some boxes to ship his woodworking products. (By day I am the sales force for my family’s small box factory.) My customer gave me a tour of his shop, showing me his doll beds and myrtlewood clocks with obvious pride. “When I retire in a few years, I want to spend my time doing this,” he said. “I love it.”
After we’d measured his products and determined what kind of boxes he needed, we began to discuss payment terms. “Now, do you guys take credit cards?” he asked.
“We don’t,” I said. “We’re not set up to handle them.”
He sighed. “I guess I can pay by check. I should be able to pull the money together. It’s probably for the best anyhow. That interest will eat you alive!”
“Oh, I know,” I said.
He took a sip of his coffee and then told me his story. “I’m an independent contractor. I do jobs all over Portland. I have my own tools, of course. Well, when I first started, about ten years ago, I bought a bunch of equipment and put it on my credit card.
“I was doing a job in Northeast, and one day all my tools were gone. I’d had them less than a week when somebody stole them from the job site. That put me in a bad spot. I hadn’t been paid for the job yet, obviously, and didn’t have any money.
“I was lucky I had that credit card! It cost me another $2500, but I was able to replace all my tools. I don’t know what I’d have done without that card.”
He paused.
“But that interest will eat you alive.”
We gathered our things to leave the shop. As he turned out the lights and locked the door he added, “You know, I’m still paying on those credit cards.”
For many people, credit cards are a convenient “safety valve”, a way to relieve pressure when money gets tight. The trouble — as my customer has come to learn — is that the interest can be oppressive, especially if you only make minimum payments.
I’ve been in a similar position myself. A decade ago, my credit cards were my emergency fund. Whenever life dealt me a blow, I relied on credit cards to cope with it. Eventually I broke the addiction to credit cards, instead relying on loans from family members. Now, at last, I’m finally building a real emergency fund, a cash reserve. There’s a reason many financial experts say that the first step to getting out of debt is saving a few hundred dollars (or even $1000) to cope with the unexpected. Without this cushion, even small emergencies can sabotage good intentions.
This article is about Basics, Credit Cards, Debt, Real-Life
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I read this yesterday and I couldn’t believe this is how bad it has gotten for some people:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071028/us_nm/usa_creditcards_debt_dc
I can’t imagine being in that situation and I felt really bad for this person. Clearly, though, it’s a result of really poor decisions on their part and now they continue to make poor decisions. God knows how much the interest rate must be on this person’s credit card and how much this is actually going to cost them. Sounds like a definite future bankruptcy.
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So many people still don’t understand the importance of building up that emergency fund while paying off c.c. debt. Even throwing down a small percentage into an e.f. will help. They really are the second golden rule of p.f. after living below your means.
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I semi-disagree. At the end of the day, if you run out of money completely your credit cards will be your emergency fund – particularly if it’s that or starve.
Of course, you should have an actual emergency fund. I prefer to use my credit cards and then reimburse, but that’s because my emergency fund is stashed away in a postal account as it gets a better rate of interest and it’s harder to tap into for non-emergencies.
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When I was using my credit cards to pay living expenses, etc., it never occurred to me that an emergency fund (or any other sort of savings) might help me. It never crossed my mind. I was too busy living paycheck-to-paycheck to understand that a little cushion in savings could help mitigage the things that always came up.
My own problems were caused by consumerism. My guess is that most people who are living off credit cards are also doing so do to overspending. There are those, of course, whose economic circumstances are less fortunate, and for whom a credit card might seem the only resort. I actually believe it’s even more important for these folks to avoid credit — they’re less likely to have the resources to escape the credit trap once they’ve entered it.
If I had set up an emergency fund after I left college, it would have saved all sorts of hassles…
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The problem I seem to struggle with is actually USING my emergency fund for emergencies. I get nervous tapping the fund and usually end up putting stuff that should come out of the emergency fund on the credit card. Then the emergency fund building gets put on hold while the credit card gets paid off. It’s insane and I’m slowly trying to wean myself off doing this.
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Yesterday I sent my second last credit card payment, and also sent my first $100 payment towards my new ‘emergency/savings’ fund. It felt great.
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Very true… You must have an emergency fund to have successful finances because like you said, if something happens, you are forced to go right back to credit cards.
But my emergency fund is very small. And if something big happens, it’s necessary for me to have my credit cards. So I keep them and probably always will. Plus, I like the rewards card.
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While it would have been nice if the guy had managed to save up enough cash to buy his tools, that’s unlikely if he was just starting out in the trades. By & large trade workers don’t have relatives who can afford to advance cash to them, and many men would find it humiliating to ask. Since he probably wasn’t moving from Wall Street to carpentry, he wouldn’t have had any earnings source that would have paid him enough to build up much reserve: that would have been what he figured the tools would help him do.
It is amazing the extent to which people in the trades are vulnerable to theft of their tools, which are very expensive. An independent contractor in our neighborhood used to park his truck inside his backyard, locking the RV gate behind it. Nevertheless, some creeps still climbed the fence, broke into the truck, and cleaned him out. And when the roofer was working on top of my house, a couple of clowns drove up to his truck and ripped off some expensive equipment. One workman reported that thieves have been known to cut the hose on a compressor while the roofer is topside and make off with the thing before he could scramble down the ladder to brain them.
When something like that happens, you don’t have much choice but to go into debt to buy new tools–or buy your own tools back at the Park ‘N’ Swap, which is where they all end up. It’s that or lose your livelihood.
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Moral of the story, he should have a credit card with purchase/theft insurance.
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“It never crossed my mind. I was too busy living paycheck-to-paycheck to understand that a little cushion in savings could help mitigage the things that always came up.”
JD – If that’s true, I think you were one step ahead of most folks even then. I think most people in a bad financial situation can’t even imagine how they would save even a little cushion in their savings — enough to really make a difference. That’s why they fall back on credit. Mitigating ‘the things that come up’ is not even an option, let alone something you can plan for.
@bornbad – Talk about poor decisions? I think the worst part of that article was this sentence:
“The next worry? The U.S. holiday retail spending season is rapidly approaching and, according to Rosenberg and others, this could push many home owners over the edge.”
People need to wake up and cut back this christmas. Its irrational to be in so much debt and then spend yourself over the edge of the abyss for something fleeting like christmas. I don’t mean irrational in some sort of ‘fuzzy logic’ sort of way. I mean downright out-of-their minds insane.
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MillionDollarJourney, that is *exactly* what I was thinking. My credit card has this, so if something I buy w/it is stolen I can have it replaced. I have never actually had to use this insurance, so I’d be interested in hearing about anyone who has.
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I’m glad I got rid of my credit card debt. It was eating at me for years. Now the price I buy things at is the price I pay. I don’t have to worry about adding interest and dragging it along.
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I think this is a generalization, and the answer is very much dependent upon what the alternative use of the money is.
If I had $1000, and I could choose between paying off my credit card debt (which I’m doing) and putting it in an emergency fund, I think the choice is easy — credit cards and use those credit cards as my emergency fund. I’ve had one “emergency” in the last 6 months.
The math is easy — 15% interest charges on the $1000 of credit card debt minus 5% that I’d get on my emergency fund means I would have paid 10% of $1000 for 6 months for the privilege of having an emergency fund.
Alternatively, I didn’t have one, put it on my credit cards, and paid it off in 2 months. That’s about month of 15% interest.
It gets murkier when you look at long term stock investments at 12%. And the number of “emergencies” a year makes a difference, too.
James
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Funny how there was a tv show about this. How I Met Your Mother (funny show) had one of the main characters come forward to another character on how they were able to afford such nice clothes/things when they make a teachers salary. The answer: Huge credit card debt. They put the topic into a funny light, and her problems were solved when her husband (who did not know about the debt) landed a high paying job. First reaction of hers was to daydream about buying more things.
Funny show, but it made me uncomfortable to watch it, as there are millions of people who do what she did (pay for things to make her feel better, run high debt, and not inform husband as she thought she could find a way to fix it).
Thank you for reading (if you made it this far). =0)
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Cosign icup. That line about the holidays got to me. If you are so far in debt that you don’t know if you can make your mortgage and you have credit card debt piling up just so you can eat, you need not concern yourself with buying gifts for the holidays. I mean, really.
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Wow,
I had just sent this to JD
. So… I had to open yet another credit card to pay for the carpeting… but that wont cover the windows or the heater
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i have to replace the extremely destroyed carpeting in my bedroom… grand total for all $2000. BTW… I have $48 dollars in my checking account. somehow… I think I learned enough in math class to learn that $48 doesnt cover $2000 in bills
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Wow,
I had just sent this to JD. This is happening to a friend of mine.
. So… I had to open yet another credit card to pay for the carpeting… but that wont cover the windows or the heater
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i have to replace the extremely destroyed carpeting in my bedroom… grand total for all $2000. BTW… I have $48 dollars in my checking account. somehow… I think I learned enough in math class to learn that $48 doesnt cover $2000 in bills
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James,
I think debt is addictive. Therefore, having debt available is just like any other addicting substance, it doesn’t help break the habit.
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Similar to plonkee, I treat my credit cards as a temporary emergency fund.
I have my stash sitting in an online savings account where it gets some interest. However, since it might take several days to get my hands on that money, I keep a credit card available in case there’s a more pressing emergency.
Once the real money is in my hands, I can use it to pay off whatever I put on the card.
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Jericho –
I find this position really interesting, despite the fact that I’m currently paying off what was once about $19K of debt. I’ve been thinking that a lot of people in the pf blogs view debt, and you seem to be on the same page, as being similar to alcohol. And then taking the view that access to debt will lead to falling off the wagon and becoming an instant alcoholic.
My position is that, like alcohol, debt can be done in moderation, and is actually good in some cases. I’d argue mortgages are good, but I know some would disagree. I don’t know if anybody would disagree with student loans, or small business loans. On the riskier and more arguable side, I think debt for emergencies, or using credit cards for a 29 day float (or longer with 0% intro offers) can be financially savvy.
Big, healthy companies with lots of analysts have debt (GE has 260 BILLION in debt). It’s called leverage and can increase returns.
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Mmm… I’d say that a Credit Card is not a good emergency fund – it may, in fact, be the worst one of all. But if you’ve got to have the money, it’ll at least get it into your hand.
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Sometimes having credit available on credit cards in an emergency is a good thing, especially if you have good credit and you can get a nice sum at 0 or 1% for 6 – 9 months. My husband and I have suddenly found ourselves between jobs waiting for severance while lawyers work things out – we don’t have much cash floating around but have quite a bit in home equity, 401K and other investments. We have no dept other than our house so we’re using one of our credit card lines to tide us over at 1% interest till we get our settlement. While at first it seemed scary to use a CREDIT CARD to live on, it’s pretty cool to have the option while we wait for our settlement. It was really quick and easy. We’ll pay it off as soon as we get the cash.
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Amen my brother!
When you use credit, it always maximize the risk
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It depends. If I am in the process of repaying credit card debts then I’d rather have $0 in savings and put everything into the credit card repayments. I will however hold onto one credit card just as an E.F. If I use it I should pay it back first before heading on to the next card repayment.
I think it would be the same thing as borrowing from family/friends too. You would pay them first before any card repayments.
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James,
I don’t view debt as wholly bad. However, its the rare case of an individual that can handle their debt to their advantage.
Companies have debt too, yes, but that’s a whole different type of debt (and a relationship to that debt). I don’t see Fortune 500 companies floating debt bonds to pay for heating, so to speak.
I believe you may have a misunderstanding about leverage. Homes are bought on debt, but that debt isn’t viewed by most folks as bad, because (traditionally) the debt vehicle created is backed up by a physical asset. When one is using debt without having some sort of asset-backing, that can easily create problems.
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I use my credit card to pay for EVERYTHING and then pay it off every month. If you do this the correct way and invest the money you would have spent w/out the credit card you are using the credit card companies to your own advantage.
The key is, of course, that you must never be late and you must always pay off your balance in full each month.
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I agree with MillionDollarJourney that a credit card with theft insurance would be a good option. Although, if you read the fine print on the insurance I’m sure they would get out of covering something like expensive equipment.
I think credit cards are a good emergency fund if you’re seriously working on getting out of debt; if you use your cash towards paying off the debt you can pay it off faster and incur less fees and interest. Emergencies may not even come up during that time.
If you have no debt THEN you should save your money and have an emergency fund, but that’s just how I see it.
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Jericho –
I see assets and liabilities as a lot more fuzzy. Supposing a 100K home, what’s the real difference between 15K left on a mortgage v. a completely paid off mortgage and 15K in credit card debt? An extra $1K a year? What if my credit card is charging me 0%?
Sure, most companies use debt (truely leverage in this case — mortgages aren’t leverage unless you’re flipping houses) to increase their ROI. But if GE were to make a series of bad decisions, spent their $65 billion of short-term cash, and still had a strong business model, I’d argue that them taking out more debt to pay their current debt obligations, leases, or heating bills would be a better idea than folding. Contrived, sure, but I think the principles are similar.
But I do see where you’re coming from.
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What I find interesting is the way many people will tie themselves in knots, justifying the use of credit. Are they so blinded by the lure of “buy now, pay later” that they can no longer see any alternative?
Lest you think I’m completely anti-credit, I’m not. That said, I use cash for variable, everyday expenses and on-line bill pay for everything else. My spouse uses a credit card for reimbursable business expenses because it makes purchases easier to track and minimizes paperwork.
I know that many will argue that they pay off their cards every month, and they’re merely taking advantage of free money. Perhaps that’s true. But, for me, it seems like more trouble than it’s worth.
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if you don’t have an emergency fund.. don’t use CC’s.. period
i use cc’s for emergencies.. but only because i know i can pay it off at the end of the month.. i transfer money out of my emergency fund as neccessary
just this month i needed new tires, alignment, and tune up for my car.. i paid with my credit card.. then transfered 1k out of my ing direct acct into my checking.. then paid off my cc (which is linked to my checking acct)
keep it simple
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The fellow with the destroyed carpet didn’t “need” to replace the carpet. He would of had a powerful motivation to save for it every time his feet hit the floor. It would be easy to cut out a Latte or a movie with that reminder, a whole lot easier than paying off a credit card.
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I’ve never thought of credit cards as an emergency fund, only as convenience. I guess that’s why I’ve never had consumer debt.
Having said that, credit cards can help in a real emergency. For example, a friend of mine had a mother in a country in Eastern Europe who had terminal illness. There was a drug available in the US that could significantly improve her quality of life during last years. The trouble was, her mother couldn’t get the drug in the country where she lived without paying a fortune, even more than the cost of this drug in the US. She did have the prescription. So my friend was ordering it from Canada; they accepted the prescription (I think a US doctor translated it). The cost was about $9000 a year. My friend did have some savings, but she still found it difficult to pay $9000 at once. To pay for it my friend got one of those 0% for a year on purchases credit cards. This way she could comfortably pay it during the year instead of all at once, yet without any interest. When 0% period expired, she would simply get another card. A few years later her mother died, but during these last years she had significantly improved quality of life. Given that my friend is very careful with money, she managed to pay off everything within 0% period ever having to pay a penny in interest.
Credit cards can help in a (real) emergency as long as you are responsible with your money and repay it as soon as possible with only a minimum amount in interest. There are plenty of 0% offers around.
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There’s a huge difference between using credit cards to pay for things that you have the money for, and using them to pay for things you don’t have the money for. This isn’t an issue of whether credit cards are good or bad. DH and I charge things all the time — especially when they’re unexpected (new transmission?!?). However, we can turn around in the next 3 weeks and pay off the entire amount in full from our emergency fund (or in a more extreme case, sell off some investments).
Credit cards are convenient and can earn cash rewards, help track expenses, etc. However, if you can’t afford what you’re buying, you can’t afford it, regardless of how you give the money to the seller when you take home the product.
Speaking about the contractor — I’m surprised that he didn’t have any kind of insurance on his tools, since they’re critical for his livelihood. I guess I shouldn’t be, though, if $2500 is enough to keep him in credit card debt for 10 years . . .
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Let’s try an example with some arbitrary numbers. After years of stupid spending, you have seen the light and are now working like mad to pay off your credit card debt of $10,000 at 10% interest. You have not yet started an emergency fund. Your income is stable and you have $500 a month free.
If no emergencies happen during the coming 2 years, you’ll have paid off your credit card and will be starting an emergency fund.
If any emergency costing up to about $500 happens, you can pay it off with the extra money you have on hand that month and keep paying down your credit card in the following months.
If any emergency costing more than $500 happens, you have to put that on the credit card. Yes you will now face increased principal and interest, and no one likes paying interest, but the difference between interest paid on the card (10%) and the interest you would have earned from even an ING account (say, 4%) is noticeable.
You are taking a risk of the third scenario happening, but the first two scenarios are also reasonably likely. You could have a large emergency, a small emergency, or even no emergency at all over a 2 year period. But you are guaranteed to end up further in the hole if you divert money from debt reduction to an emergency fund, given the difference in interest rates.
I think that as long as you have the discipline to not use the credit card except for a real emergency, you’re better off starting an emergency fund after your debt is gone or substantially reduced.
Convince me that I’m wrong.
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Mike (comment 5) you aren’t alone. I couldn’t help but recall the Frontline episode on credit cards. The interviewer has 5 people around the table, each carrying debt in the low thousands. All of them have an emergency fund that they could use to pay down their debt.
None of them are willing to spend it because they “might need it.”
Nutty.
Assume 5k debt and 5k in the emergency fund.
If you then have a 5k emergency, you’ll use your reserve and will have 5k in debt and 0 in the emergency fund.
Or you could pay it off: 0 in debt and 0 in the emergency fund.
If you then have a 5k emergency, you’ll have to put it on the card. You’ll have 5k in debt and 0 in the emergency fund.
You end up in the same place. The question is — how much interest did you pay in the interim?
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Mary, interesting post. Your comment made me think about my brother-in-law who has it all backward. He adds money to his savings account and minimizes his payments to his credit cards and thinks he’s getting ahead! This is simple math…unless you have a short-term low, or o% APR from your credit card the numbers are upside down.
All that said, a credit card shouldn’t be an emergency fund, but maybe, as some have proposed, can be used in dire circumstances if you have no where else to turn. The key then is to be financially responsible and make sure you pay it down…
My wife and I follow a strategy that’s similar to what others have posted. We have a sizeable emergency fund, maybe too big (more than 6 months expense coverage). We use our credit cards (Citi UPromise and Discover) for just about everything (gas, groceries, dining, daycare payments) and pay them off monthly. I like using the cards b/c we get the cash back or college savings rewards and I download all our transactions into Quicken. It makes it easy for me to stay on top of our spending(I even quickly caught a fraudulent use of the card!)
If we have a month where we have an unexpected expense that we can’t cover from checking then I just move money from the emergency fund to cover. Obviously you need to be disciplined to ‘repay’ yourself into the e-fund, but we’ve found this strategy to work well with the e-fund.
If I were out of work for numerous months we could continue to employ the same strategy for paying our monthly bills w/o worrying about taking on debt.
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I don’t think this example is very good – whether you are for or against using CC in emergencies.
Fact is, this guy bought $2500 in tools over 10 years ago and still hasn’t paid it off? Uh…what?
Seems to me this guy has bigger problems than what his emergency fund is! I’m sure he’s more the type to put all his “emergencies” on his card. Like his ‘emergency pizza’ or his new ‘emergency car’.
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Mary, I can’t and won’t convince you that you’re wrong. I actually think that you’re right. If you have the discipline to begin paying off your credit card debt, then it probably doesn’t make sense to hold onto savings until after that debt has been repaid.
But, for many people (including myself), this discipline is hard to come by. If a person is recovering from bad spending habits, I think it’s imperative that she create an emergency fund before she begins to pay off her debt.
Once she has developed self-discipline, then it might make sense to move the emergency fund money to pay down the debt. In fact, that’s what I intend to do as I finish off my own debt repayment. But if I were still spending like crazy, this would not be a good option.
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[...] If you want to change, train your brain. The theory behind this is something that I’ve been trying to practice for the last few years, with huge results. A credit card is not an emergency fund. [...]
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I have many thoughts on this subject, and many more responses to various comments already posted here, but I’ll say just three things that people need to keep in mind.
1. Many events that people think of as emergencies really aren’t emergencies. Christmas, kids growing and car *maintenance* are not emergencies. (Car *repairs* are another topic and I’m not going to detail my response about that here)
2. Not making enough money to build up an emergency fund while trying to make even minimum payments on debt? Get another job!
3. Proper financial planning requires doing a *WRITTEN* budget each and every single month. It also requires carrying the proper levels of insurance for car, home/rent, disability, life, health/dental/vision and long term care (if over age 60).
4. You are NOT smart and sophisticated with money if you’re using credit cards to pay for emergencies when you HAVE an emergency fund. “Oh I pay it off at the end of the month.” This is stupid! It creates unneeded risk, and the emergency fund is to mitigate risk in the first place!
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@hornbad:
I just finished reading the story on Yahoo you linked… Two immediate thoughts…
1. People seem to be afraid (or unwilling?) to take on extra jobs to get themselves out of a mess.
2. People continually buy houses they can’t afford. Shocking. What is it with this culture where we have so many broke people telling other broke people they have to buy a house?
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Ah! This story brings back misty, water-colored memories…
When I was 14 my dad, an electrician who ran his own small shop, wanted me to go to move from public school to an all-girls parochial school. Thank goodness for me, someone stole all his tools the week before my tuition was due. Good-bye tuition, hello public high school! (I would’ve stolen them myself if I’d realized this was the key to staying in a co=ed school.)
Unfortunately, tools for tradesmen run into many thousands of dollars and without them you can’t make a living. So go easy on this guy!
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It’s increasingly infuriating to me that a standard public education doesn’t include some basic financial planning.
When I had cc debt, I always had a small (2K-ish) emergency fund, for a couple of reasons. Firstly for the psychological boost it gave me that not every spare penny was going to service my debt, but secondly, and more justifiably, for any emergency occasion that required cash. Rent, for instance. You can’t hand your landlord a credit card, and cash advances carry much higher interest rates than regular charges.
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J.D.,
Why doesn’t your business accept credit or debit cards?
Are you losing customers by not accepting them?
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It’s a pity he didn’t use that credit card to get insurance for his tools.
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I disagree. I think for the fiscally responsible, credit cards are an excellent back up source of temporary funds. Of course temporary means 1-3 months max. I’ve needed to rely on cards to tie me over for a few months before. Yes I had to pay finance charges but after 3 months I paid everything back in full and was back on my feet toward saving again.
People need to stop buying houses altogether if they can’t afford it. There is nothing wrong with renting until you have enough savings to afford several months of rent immediately.
-Raymond
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Can anyone recommend part time jobs for the holidays? I work a fairly standard 9-5 job. A part time job would be my Christmas present to myself – paying off some cc debt.
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Jtimberman,
Credit cards, like knives, are not risky in and of themselves. People chop onions and peppers all the time without cutting themselves – tho someone with a history of cutting might rather buy them pre-chopped.
When I was young and foolish and had way too much money in Microsoft stock, the stock was my emergency fund – which meant a week’s wait between a sell order and the electronic funds transfer to my bank. In that case, the American Express card was wonderful – it would cover the new tires / ER visit / what-have-you while I waited to GET the money.
NOW the EF is in a much less volatile combination of savings account + Vanguard short-term bond fund with check writing privileges. But if I’m getting car repairs in the middle of nowhere from a guy I’ve never met, I’ll use the AmEx for the extra leverage should the repairs not be good.
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DD,
I highly recommend delivering pizzas. I’ve done it several times and it’s a fun job, don’t have a boss breathing down your neck, can listen to your tunes, and make some pretty good side money as well.
Dominoes is the way to go!
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The thing that struck me about that stress article, apart from the christmas bit, was that the house that was stressing the family so badly out only cost $214K. That is in contrast to most of the horror stories I see floating around lately where people bought $750K homes on 30K salaries and are looking at $4500/month payments.
Also, I’m not sure I would call not being able to pay your monthly mortgage payment an ‘emergency’ per se. A $1600 mortgage payment should be doable for a dual income family without resorting to putting it on the credit cards. Even if I can accept that their salary doesn’t quite make ends meet as is, that kind of payment should be squarely in ‘suck it up and get a 2nd job for a couple months’ territory.
And yeah, I recognize that getting a second job would be a huge sacrifice and would suck alot — I’m not willing to do it myself. But at a certain point you have to ask yourself “Do I want to own my house or not?”. Putting your mortgage payments on a credit card is the height of folly.
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