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I drove south yesterday morning to meet with Mac, my partner at Get Fit Slowly. Between Portland and Salem, a warning light came on in my Ford Focus — the temperature gauge had risen into the red. I pulled to the side of the road, called to cancel our meeting, and cursed fate. I hate my car. After the engine cooled, I nursed the vehicle to the local Ford dealership. I gave them the keys, and then drove off in a service rental, marveling at how fine it was to be in a car with a working heater.
In the afternoon, the shop called with the damage. (I’m half-remembering this conversation — I don’t know anything about cars, so I probably have the details wrong, though the numbers are right.) “Your coolant system is shot,” the woman told me. “There was a crack near the thermostat, which apparently allowed the coolant to drain out completely. It’ll cost $373 to fix.”
I sighed. “That may fix the trouble with your heater, too,” the woman said. “The bad news is we found other problems. You know the airbag light that was on? That’s not good. Right now, the airbag won’t deploy in a crash. If you want that repaired, it’ll cost another $432.”
“Yes, I definitely want the airbag fixed,” I said. Seven years ago an airbag saved my life. Call me superstitious, but I won’t drive a car without one now.
“There’s one more thing,” the woman said. “The key is stuck in the ignition. We can’t get it out.”
I sighed again. This has been a problem for over a year, but I’ve always managed to work around it. The shop, however, was stymied. “We need to replace the ignition. It’ll cost $135 for a new tumbler, and about $225 for labor. It takes about 2-1/2 hours to get into the steering column to replace it.”
She clicked her keyboard. “The total so far is $1165.”
I was silent for a moment. $1165. That’s a lot of money, especially for a car I don’t like. (It’s 5% of a Mini Cooper!) But what other choice did I have? “Go ahead,” I said. “Go ahead.” Though I’m certainly not happy about this situation, I know it won’t lead me to financial ruin — I have an emergency fund.
Back when I was living paycheck-to-paycheck, $1165 in car repairs would have been a devastating blow. It would have put me into a panic. I wouldn’t have had any idea where to get the money, and likely would have charged the repairs to a credit card. Today, my mind is more at ease.
I have about $1500 saved. The car repairs will drain this money, obviously, and I’ll have to restart from nearly zero, but I won’t have to get a loan or use a credit card. Best of all, I won’t have to divert money from my existing financial goals. (Yes, I’ll need to rebuild the emergency fund, but since increasing that to $10,000 is one of my goals for 2008, this should happen quickly.)
This is yet another instance in which I’ve been able to appreciate a real-life application of the Get Rich Slowly philosophy.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:11 am
Oof! I am afraid you may have been ripped off by the dealership. Yes, you may have had these problems, but it is always better to get a second opinion from an independent shop that you have a good relationship with.
They don’t call them $tealers for nothing.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:16 am
You may want to question them a little more on the ignition repair. There are known issues with them, but Ford refuses to recall apparently.
http://www.fazmiclaw.com/focus.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_focus_ignition.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/FocusIC/petition.html
No matter what you should call Ford customer service and let them know what you think of the quality of there vehicles. Sometimes they will help you out with the cost of repairs.
Good luck.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:16 am
JD — I feel for you — my car needed nearly $1500 worth of work right after Christmas. It’s a 1995 Volvo and I don’t hate it like you hate your car — but it did occur to me my repairs were a big part of the value of the car. But hey — it’s still a heck of a lot cheaper than a new one. And yes — an emergency fund kept this from being a disaster for us as well. Having that cushion makes all the difference in the world.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:26 am
Sorry to hear about the Focus. Both of my brothers-in-law own or have owned Foci. Michael’s we used to call the “Silver Bullet”, and Trey’s we call the “Red Dragon.” Obviously, these are “pet” names that indicate performance and prestige that actually does not exist. I can honestly say that the Ford Focus is a cheaply made, unreliable vehicle that I am very sorry you have to drive and now have paid for this large expense.
FYI, the Silver Bullet engine “blew up”, or otherwise required complete replacement (a couple grand). After the expensive repair, Michael sold it not too long ago and now drives a used 2002 Camry. The Red Dragon is still in service, albeit the A/C compressor does not work, and the blower only works on max flow. Both Trey and Michael dispise the Focus.
This is a good time to point readers to the book you recommended previously, “How to live well without a car” by Balish. I recently checked this book out, hoping to a) get inspired to start bike-commuting to work again b) look for tips on saving money and c) get information to decide if my wife and I truly “need” 2 cars or if we can go down to one. I know now after reading the book that a car-free lifestyle isn’t possible for everyone. However, the information in that book makes you think ahead about different ways of doing things. I believe one of the most useful tips is the backup plan for getting to work. For example, if you normally cycle to work, how else might you get to work (i.e. public transit, carpool, walk, cab, work from home, etc.). I’d venture to say that perhaps this information might enable someone in a predicament like this car emergency to have options that they might not have thought of. This could enable one additional time to get secondary estimates on auto repair, or time to think about what they really are better off doing (repair, or selling/trade-in). Also, for those who are mechanically inclined, this may give you time to locate parts, and do the repair yourself at your own pace. Quite possibly, you might end up completely free of a car expense after reading this book!
Incidentally, today is my 3rd day of bike commuting, and I have already saved almost 3/4 a gallon of diesel fuel…
Good luck with the Focus… You’ll need it!
January 9th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Not sure but you may want them to check head and gasket if it got hot. Many times this blows out.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:34 am
Emergency funds are such a great idea. Sorry to hear you’re having car trouble though, at least the service rental is nice.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:44 am
Sorry to hear about your car problems
We recently had to have new brakes among other things and it went on the ole credit card since we lack an emergency fund. On Monday we cashed in $17,000.00 worth of stock options and it will go directly into savings for future emergencies. Even though we have significant debt we realized we would never get ahead w/o a cushion. It is tempting to pay off a big chunk of debt w/the money but we decided we need to pay it off w/blood, sweat & tears since we got ourselves into this mess in the first place!
Thanks for being such an inspiration JD!
January 9th, 2008 at 5:53 am
Sorry you are having car trouble, J.D., but how great it is that you can deal with it without derailing your PF strategy!
Still, I can’t help but agree that you should not have authorized the repair, at least not yet.
I only second-guess you because I have learned the hard way.
I suggest:
1) For a repair this expensive, get a second opinion from another repair shop or a knowledgeable friend.
2) The repair was $1165. Take a little time to see what kind of used car $2500 could get you.
3) If you like taking your car to a dealership, ask to speak directly to the mechanic for any significant repairs. I’m not saying service managers try to talk you into unnecessary repairs, but, well…
January 9th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Wow. Sorry to hear that JD. How much is the car worth? After you get it fixed, at least you’ll have more peace of mind!
Having an emergency fund has saved my neck on many occasions but is sure is a pain anyway.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:57 am
I can sympathize! I’ve been blogging the past week about my car repair woes. In my case though - I have (had?) the emergency fund, but only had $1266 in it and my car repair…. $3700. Yes… $3700. Well, it might be $3600 now, my spouse negotiated a discount after calling a billion other places.
My engine died. My I thought ultra-reliable Saturn killed its engine. Now I find out that my model Saturn is kind of a lemon among Saturns. But I still owe $3300 on the car so, well… we sucked it up and it is being fixed right now.
We are faced with financing a portion of the repair. it is the first time I have used a credit card to get me out of a problem in more than 4 years. We are paying ~$2700 up front (by draining just about every resource we have) but we just can’t come up with more than that in a week’s time. So the other ~$900ish is being same as cash financed for 90 days, and I will throw every penny at it I can and IT WILL BE GONE long before my time is up. The snowflake revolution continues.
I’m glad your emergency fund was enough to fix your car! And I hope next time, mine is too. That’s my goal.
Good luck and enjoy your working heater
January 9th, 2008 at 5:58 am
This does reinforce my desire, as Dan mentioned, to reduce my reliance on my car. Once my transition to full-time writer has been completed, I’ll use a vehicle much less. This will be a good thing.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:59 am
Yeah, I’m afraid of what a local place would have saved you.
I bet you could have gotten all that done for $500.
I absolutely hate dealerships. They are the worst place to do pretty much anything.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:07 am
January 9th, 2008 at 6:08 am
JD–Oh, that stinks. The Subaru needed quite a bit of work earlier this year and we had to suck it up and pay for it. Much of it was maintenance–hit that 90,000 mile mark–that will hopefully get us through the next few years! If you find a good, local mechanic, please let us know. We are still using PDX Automotive–they offer great service–but they are a bit far to go now that we live on the south end of town.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:14 am
JD,
Unless your car is still under warranty, it’s always better to go to an independent garage than the dealership.
Dealership garages tend to have higher per-hour charges, inflate the hours needed, and always charge more for parts (your ignition tumbler, for example, can be purchased online for $60). Often independent garages will install parts that you provide or work with you on what repairs are absolutely required and what you can defer or repair to the point that “it looks bad but works fine”.
It also pays to shop around! My wife recently backed into another car, denting the hatch on her Subaru Forester and rendering the hatch inoperable. Estimates ranged from $400 to $1600 (the most expensive was from a dealership who wanted to replace the hatch). We ended up finding a local mechanic that pulled the dent and replaced the hatch latch for $225! It definitely doesn’t look factory-fresh, but it works great.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:17 am
The Ford Focus has a reputation of being an inexpensive but unreliable car. Sometime paying more for a better quality item ends up being the more frugal decision in the long run. If you truly hate the car so much personally I’d think about upgrading to a more reliable used model that you actually enjoy . . . maybe a used 2-3 year old Cooper?
January 9th, 2008 at 6:21 am
Glad you had an emergency fund but - please stop getting your car fixed at a stealership! You could have spent half that at a reputable mechanic.
I’m not saying to learn to do it yourself, I’m not saying to go to some hick who works on the cars in his backyard - I’m just saying there are plenty of great mechanics (get referrals) who will do quality work for less money.
Many of them are former dealership mechanics who realized how much the dealership is making while paying them pennies and struck out on their own (and, are more experienced at fixing YOUR car than the mechanic at the dealership)
January 9th, 2008 at 6:23 am
my parents always told me this every time I start talking about cars
“Ford = Fix Or Repair Daily”
After reading this story, that phrase fit!
January 9th, 2008 at 6:23 am
Start saving for a new car — this one could bleed you to death. Focus on reliability when you do (check out Consumer Reports before you buy.)
Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I’ve been there and know how you feel — like you’re pouring money down a drain.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:25 am
Did the dealership tell you what caused the crack in the coolant system? If it was caused by a collision (like with a curb or something) or by a flying rock then you might consider calling your insurance company. Depending on your deductible amount they might could help cover some of the cost of the coolant system and possibly that air bag light. Those things don’t just come on. It may have come on as a result of whatever caused that coolant leak.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:36 am
I had a similar situation about a year ago; the car needed repairs and it cost more than I was expecting. Unfortunately I was living paycheck to paycheck at the time so I know exactly the type of panic you were referring to. The emergency fund is for exactly this type of situation. Hope the car doesn’t break further.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:45 am
J.D., my husband and I started “the mechanic test” by sending me in alone when our car needed something minor. (You know what they say about women and cars.) Any place that was condescending, or outright lied or made things up, was eliminated. It was only a starting point, but it helped weed out a few jerks.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:46 am
I’m sure every person on this blog has a car repair horror story, so I won’t go there.
I still get my oil changes at the local Saturn dealership because their prices are competitive and the mechanics work Saturns all day. At first, I fixed everything they told me because I wanted to take good care of my car.
But now, when I take it for a change, I know the phone call is coming. I have it rehearsed.
“You need to have your steering column fluid flushed.”
“No.”
“Your motor mounts are broken, do you want to go ahead and fix that?”
“No.”
And so on. I can really sympathize with you, J.D., because they give you the same “You’re lucky you even got here in this thing” urgency every time, and you feel like if you don’t do what they say, it’s like saying your relative can get by without that transplant.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:49 am
like it or not cars need regular repair. whatever your current auto repair budget category is multiply it by two.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:50 am
@Eric - what a great idea to call Ford customer service! Why didn’t I think of that with Saturn…. I went to their website and shot them off a long detailed email about exactly my opinion. (They didn’t have a customer service phone number). Thanks!!!!
@JD - I have the same problem - I don’t have a trusted local mechanic. This is what we did (but it might have been easier for our repair, because it was “replace the engine”.
I took at face value what our dealer said needed to be done. Then we called every place in the phone book and said “We have a 2001 Saturn L300 and it needs a new engine. Can you give us a quote unseen?” and almost every place would. Then we took the lowest quote, went to our dealer where the car was, and said “We can get it done for 10% less somewhere else, can you match that or do we need to get it towed there instead?” and after about 14 seconds of the “discuss with manager” they matched our quote.
So it is being fixed at a dealership but at the best price we could find. Still outrageous but…. heh.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:55 am
I have to be the devil’s advocate here for the Focus . . . I’ve driven mine to 75,000 miles so far and never had a problem–just regular maintenance. My aunt has well over 100,000 miles on hers and it’s the same story.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:59 am
I recently had a test of my emergency fund. I have $2000.00 for my emergency fund and the engine in my truck blew up over the weekend. I still owe $11,000 on the stupid truck and they want $4000 for a used engine.
This leaves me wondering what I should do next!?
January 9th, 2008 at 7:01 am
Sorry for your troubles.
General Rule #1 in car ownership - NEVER go to the dealer for non-warranty work.
You can find a good trustworthy shop through word of mouth. If you can’t find out through friends, family, or coworkers go online and find some local auto-club and ask them.
Even picking a shop out of the phone book is a safer bet than going with the stealership.
Better luck next time.
…again, sorry for your troubles. Even with that bill Click’n'Clack (CarTalk) say fixing your car is ALWAYS cheaper than buying new.
Ian
January 9th, 2008 at 7:02 am
My wife’s car had a similar problem with the ignition except in her case the key would not turn unless she slamed it pretty hard into it (which was exceptionally unfortunate because she has problems with her wrist and the hitting probably did not help). Anyway, eventually one day all of a sudden, it would not turn at all. We had to talk the convenience store we were at into not towing us before morning and get it towed then to the dealer. Thankfully, her dad paid for it (we were only dating at the time) because I know she could not have afforded it.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:03 am
As an aside, I am torn on the issue of dealers. You are going to pay more, but I have been slowing learning that you are more likely to get the problem fixed correctly if the problem is non-obvious and requires a lot of diagnostic work.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Two points to address.
1. I can testify to having an emergency fund and to budgeting everything on paper. I live in the Denver area and we had some serious snowfall a couple weeks ago. I slid off the road driving home and plowed my car into a tree. Since it was a $3000 car, we didn’t have collision coverage, and the damage would have cost at least half the total cost of the car. So we replaced it with a $2000 car. Emergency fund plus reallocating money we budgetted for something else paid for the replacement, within a week of the accident.
2. I found our current mechanic through our church. He’s on the church board and is highly recommended from other people. It also turns out the guy I bought the replacement car is a mechanic and has slightly better rates for labor :-).
January 9th, 2008 at 7:04 am
I really like my mechanics. They take the time to educate me about my car when I’m there, they never leave my car until the last minute (like most dealerships I’ve known), and they always come in under their estimates on both time and money. Often the same guy works on my car every time I bring it in, which means he has some history with me and my car. He knows that I’m likely to not repair things and he has learned how to let me know which problems really are serious enough to get my attention. I’d rather run a car into the ground than pay to have everything repaired all the time, which is why I love my 1995 Toyota Corolla. It already had 165,000 miles on it when I got it and all I’ve really had to repair was the brakes (and the ignition, which I have now had to replace in both my Focus and the Toyota. My mechanic told me it might be the weight of my keychain, so I’ve lightened it up).
My mechanics are great guys. It took a while to diagnose the actual problem when my Focus finally did die catastrophically. When the final verdict was that the engine needed to be completely replaced they actually gave me the option to sell them the car for the cost of repairs already done. I gladly did so. They saved me from having to figure out what to do with a completely dead car.
The Car Talk guys have a section of their web site dedicated to helping people find and recommend mechanics. When you decide to escape the clutches of the dealership you might start there: http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/
January 9th, 2008 at 7:12 am
@Debby - that stinks. Ugh. If you are me, you’d replace the engine, finance the extra, and cry a lot. You might not be me.
Good luck, whatever you decide!!
January 9th, 2008 at 7:13 am
In terms of checking out mechanics, we’ve used a few different places for routine service: oil changes, etc. to see who had the best prices, did the best job and we trusted the most. Then, by the time an emergency came up, we had a place ready. (And we don’t really use the car, so we never really have an “emergency.”)
January 9th, 2008 at 7:19 am
When people ask me why I keep this site, what my goals are, I tell them, “First, to teach myself about money. Second, to share what I’ve learned with other people. Third, to make a living.” Often I focus on the second and third part of this equation.
I love it when you guys are able to school me. This thread has made me resolved to find a good mechanic close to my house. I didn’t realize dealerships charged inflated prices, though I suppose it makes sense.
Also, because Kris listens to Car Talk every Saturday, I’ve hear Click and Clack’s “It’s always cheaper to repair than buy new” litany a million times. I keep repeating that to myself.
I like Ian’s comment above: General Rule #1 in car ownership - NEVER go to the dealer for non-warranty work. It makes me think I should piece together general rules of car ownership #s 2-10.
Finally, thanks for that link, Amber!
January 9th, 2008 at 7:21 am
JD, try http://www.yelp.com to look for honest recommendations for mechanics (and for just about anything else you could think of… restaurants, hair salons, etc!)
I’ve been building up my emergency fund based on stuff I’ve read on this site and others, and it definitely gives me a comforting feeling to know that if I suddenly get a 1k car repair bill, I have it covered.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:21 am
I sympathize–don’t have a mechanic we like right now and it’s so maddening to feel like maybe you are being taken advantage of but you have no way of really knowing.
Only place I know of to go for customer reviews of mechanics is the Car Talk site: http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/
Good luck! I really enjoy your blog.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:32 am
Also, cars ALWAYS break down. Shouldn’t we have a modest car maintenance/repair fund so that we don’t have to use our emergency fund for this? It would depend on the car, but how many cars don’t cost at least $300 or $600 per year minimum in maintenance and repair? Sure, you’ll buy a used car and then go two years without any problem, but then you have to replace belts, plugs, wires, tires, brakes–not to mention random exhaust, electrical, radiator, or fuel system problems that seem to randomly happen.
Beyond gasoline and oil changes, your car is just like your furnace or your ISP–it costs money each month. It just doesn’t bill you in nice steady intervals. So bill yourself.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:37 am
Do yourself a favor and next time do not buy another Ford - or any american car - Try a subaru for your next ride…my beater has 220K and I only need to change the oil…
January 9th, 2008 at 7:43 am
This happened to me three times last year, and I was in the very rare position to pay cash for each one. It didn’t affect my finances other than it drained my emergency fund a bit. It was a fabulous feeling. I had been saving money for a while and actually having money when I needed it made a bad situation (car breaking down) less of an ordeal.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Luckily we have a friend at our dealership who gets us good prices/no labor charges on work! Plus we have a friend who knows our brand of car inside and out, we save a lot of money on doing repairs ourselves.
As for finding a mechanic, you could maybe check out your local CitySearch (ie, detroit.citysearch.com) and look up mechanics there. We came upon ours on accident - my car’s drive shaft broke on the way home last year and my husband called the Aamco near us to see if they could get it towed to their shop. They towed it for a cheap price (from one side of town to the other), told us not just what we needed fixed, but what was necessary NOW and what could wait a while, and charged us a fair price (we checked around). They were a gem to find! People aren’t always so lucky, I know. Good luck, I know how it sucks to fix cars - after plowing about $3k into my old car we finally bit the bullet and bought a newer (used) car. The peace of mind is worth having a car payment again.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:45 am
I’ve heard some strange theories on how to find the best mechanic. One of my old professors told us (in a class on ethics) that whenever he moves, he looks for a mechanic that is a practicing Jahova’s Witness.
The best indicator for me is the same one I use for finding good restaurants. Whenever I call my mechanic, I tell them what’s wrong and they say “I’m really busy right now, I can’t get you in until Monday of next week” (or something). They are busy because they are a good value, and they have a strong customer base. This mechanic isn’t super close to my house, he (Larry of L & L auto in lakewood, CO) has his shop on a lower income area, and I think that makes his prices more competitive, as well as increases the experience of his mechanics (because there are lots of old cars around).
At any rate, even the worst deal on an independent mechanic (as long as it gets fixed) is going to be better deal than any dealership.
I hope you save at least half of that money after everything is settled.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:47 am
@Debby, you’re in a tough spot. I think what you just discovered is that you aren’t going to be able to afford a new car or truck anytime soon. So make sure you get it done right now, and remember this incident whenever you get that urge to “upgrade” to a newer vehicle with expensive financing. And $2000 isn’t enough for an emergency fund. It should be at least 6 months of your salary after taxes. If you can’t afford that, then you certainly can’t afford your truck.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:48 am
My sister-in-law’s 2003 Focus had the same problem where the key wouldn’t turn in the ignition two weeks ago.
After some quick Googling by wy wife and father-in-law, we discovered this was a common problem with the Focus.
The solution is to tap the key (toward the steering column) with a hammer until the tumblers engage. This worked like a charm and saved my sister-in-law a few hundred dollars in repairs.
Now she keeps a hammer in her trunk just in case it happens again; it’s not the greatest situation in the world, but she’ll get by.
As an aside, my wife also has a 2003 Focus and we haven’t had any problems with it.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:48 am
I just discovered this site today. This is a wonderful site that I plan to visit often.
When it comes to buying an inexpensive car, I have some ideas I can share from a recent experience.
After totaling a car, I wanted to pay cash for my next ride.
I went to all of the local dealerships and asked, “What do you have for $3,000?” Some of the commission-based sales reps looked a surprised and one even asked if I meant $3,000 for a down payment. I just smiled and said that was my price range and told them it was fine if they didn’t have anything available.
Surprisingly, there were a few good reliable finds. I finally ended up with an Infiniti Q45 with only 119,000 miles for $2,400. It is older but it runs like a champ and is even a hot rod when you step on it.
The point being, by being non-conventional, one can save some dollars and put money in more meaningful places.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:49 am
I share in your Ford-driving woes. At the time we bought our Taurus, it was the best we could afford (lowest miles for the price). Anyway, I have two thoughts that may help you next time. First, have them only repair the thing that needs repaired to get the car running (the cooling system), then call around about the ignition, air bag, etc. Second, to find a good mechanic, have your car towed and ask the tow truck driver. Those guys know who’s slime and who’s great more than anyone else.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:49 am
I traded in my old car. It was a disaster for me, one repair after another it seemed. I kept telling myself that all of this stress, money for repairs, etc. was a lot easier than paying for a new car. I don’t think that’s necessarily the truth.
If you find yourself in the position frequently of making car repairs, getting stranded in the middle of nowhere, risking your livelyhood and more–consider the peace of mind of actually buying a near new car (LOW miles but used).
January 9th, 2008 at 8:10 am
Another acronym for Ford - Found On Road Dead.
I’m a firm believer in regular maintaince. Even if you go to a dealership for regular check-ups, they will probably point out sommething else that needs to be done, but at least you know it’s driveable and it will give you time to get a second opinion.
I bought a used Saturn in 2006 (my second one). I took it to the dealership for it’s 40K check-up and they said the brakes would have to be done next time around. They said it would cost something like $250.
This is a great help because it gives me a head’s up and a chance to shop around or save the $250. It also gives me a chance to have it fixed before more damage can occur making an even larger bill. Saturn and their dealerships have been really good in this respect. I’ve never felt screwed. I drove my last Saturn until it had about 189,000 miles on it and I sold it for $750.
Best way to find a reliable independent garage is word of mouth, but you may also find something in CraigsList. My BF found a motorcycle mechanic looking for side jobs that way. They will usually charge half of what the dealerships do.
It’s always good to try to know a little bit more about your car. As a female, you get a lot of people trying to pull the wool over your eyes so I made a point to know as much as I can about my vehicle. I’ve suprised a few garage guys in my time.
If nothing else, read your owners manual and learn how to do a few basic things like changing your own oil, replacing lights, etc.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:12 am
First of all, is it truly cheaper to keep repairing your car? I ask b/c in 2002 we were given a 96 Ford Taurus. We spent over $5000 in trying to repair it before the transmission fell apart in our driveway. At the time, we already had a 2001 Taurus. The first three years we owned it, there were no problems, but after that we literally were paying over $3000 a year in various repairs, and there were still outstanding issues that we couldn’t afford to fix. The kicker was when we realized that even with car payments, I was paying less for my newer Civic yearly than we were for the Taurus which we owned outright. When we traded it in, it needed over $2500 in repairs just to keep it on the road. In looking around at postings on Edmunds, it seems that about 66% of 5+ year old Fords are fairly reliable, but the 33% that aren’t reliable fail miserably, and continue to have one problem after another. You may find yourself with another expensive problem before you’ve had a chance to replace the emergency fund money that you had to use.
Secondly, not all dealers are horrible monsters looking to rip you off. Our local Honda dealer is very reasonably priced, and provides great service. We did use a highly recommended local garage when we first got here, and we found that we could never get out of there without ending up with a $750 bill or higher, even when it was just supposed to be an oil change on a newer car. They’d always have something that ‘had’ to be fixed, and generally it would be something that you can’t easily check on. Just because some or many dealers are rip offs doesn’t mean that all of them are.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:15 am
My sister recently took her 2 year old leased Nissan to Nissan for repairs because it would not start. Nissan called her back to tell her she needed just under $800 of repairs. She decided to get a second opinion, towed the car to PepBoys and fixed the car for less than $100. She wrote a written complaint to the motor vehicle dealer board because the major repair they suggested & quoted could not have been diagnosed had the car not been running according to PepBoys.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:15 am
JD-
Have you considered Angie’s List:
http://www.angieslist.com
I’ve used it to find reliable people to work on my home several times. I see that they have reports for auto repair as well.
-Norman in SE Woodstock
January 9th, 2008 at 8:17 am
JD,
I was in shock that you went to the dealership and just said OK to everything! Now, just a few months ago I was clueless about cars too, but then my car started having troubles and I had to learn quick. Here are some suggestions:
-If you have a friend who loves cars, ask/him her to teach you some basics, not only about cars but about dealing with mechanics. One tip my friend told me was to always ask for the old parts if you’re getting something repaired (like a busted hose, etc.) This sends the message that you are serious and can indicate if they are just making up repairs, since you will be able to see what they are taking out.
-Always be confident when talking to mechanics. Even if you don’t really know what you’re talking about fully, try to sound like you do. Of course, coming in with some basic knowledge and terms to throw around will help your confidence.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:17 am
I used to hear that Ford stood for Found On Road Dead. It’s no wonder American car companies are hurting! I came close to looking at the Focus when I was shopping for a car but I heard it didn’t rank highly in reliability. Glad that I went with my Corolla. I bet if a dealership decided to be honest it might not make a lot in the beginning perhaps but it might make a lot with returning customers. Sorry to hear about your problems.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:20 am
It might be too late, but you could call the dealership right away and tell them to only do the most important work (the coolant leak) and leave the other stuff for later. That gets you back on the road, and you can immediately get on the phone to a couple of independent shops and get quotes for the airbag and ignition keys.
To be honest, I’ve never had a really bad experience with an independent mechanic. Several bad experiences with chain/franchise shops, a couple of so-so dealer experiences, but never anything really bad at an independent (other than a couple of guys who were really slow, taking much longer to complete jobs than they had promised). If I were you, I would take a look at the cartalk website, maybe ask on AskMetafilter, but most of all take a look in person at any shops within walking or bicycling distance of your house. A close shop is hugely more convenient, because you can drop off and pick up the car without worrying about shuttle service, getting a ride from your partner/friend/random stranger, etc. Look for a place that’s reasonably busy (suggesting that they have a good reputation) and have at least decent customer service.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:25 am
You aren’t alone on the ignition problem. Happened on my wife’s Focus once during warranty and once out of warranty. I wasn’t too sad when it got totaled and replaced it with a used Acura.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:25 am
I agree that you need an opinion from someone other than the dealership. Even if that mechanic tells you the same thing (or worse!), at least you’ll no longer feel concerned that you’re getting taken for a ride. Think of mechanics like contractors or cancer doctors–would you just talk to one, or go to several and stick with the best? None of them should be offended that you want a second opinion.
My parents had a very reliable mechanic for years. They developed a relationship with him in part by always taking their car in for regular maintenance to his shop even though it was a few dollars more for an oil change than the Jiffy Lube with its ever-rotating employees and $5 off coupons. This gaurantee of repeat service made him honest, helpful, and quick to point out when something didn’t really need to be done. He also personally guaranteed his work, and once performed a house call!
Although I don’t have a car now, I also strongly, strongly recommend that every driver take a basic auto mechanics class from their local community college or vocational school. I took one my last year of university and it was PRICELESS. For five months I had full access to a shop with lifts and tools, and took apart and put back together almost every piece of my car myself. In addition to learning how the car actually works, I can do basic maintenance (oil changes, transmission flushes, brake work) and I’ve done more intensive work at home as well (replaced the exhaust system in my driveway when I damaged my tail pipes and muffler, for example). I know what the parts are that mechanics are talking to me about, and I’ve caught a few trying to “fix” parts that weren’t related to the system that had a problem, thinking I was a dumb girl who would fall for whatever they said. I have a lot more confidence as a driver and have saved money by either doing the work myself or getting lower prices because it’s harder to hoodwink me now. I also found that I really enjoyed it!
January 9th, 2008 at 8:27 am
The most reliable car I’ve owned was a 1991 Buick Century (V6). I bought it for $2,500 with 125,000 miles on it, and it lasted to 185,000 before I got rid of it (I ride a motorcycle/carpool, so I didn’t need it). These cars are nigh-bulletproof, pull like a warhorse, ultra-cheap to insure, invisible to police and parts are plentiful and dirt cheap. I’d get another one in a heartbeat.
The 2nd most reliable car I’ve owned is my current 2000 Ford Mustang (V6). We bought it at 28,000, and it’s made it to 103,000 miles with only a couple repairs. Again, parts are cheap and plentiful. I’d recommend a Mustang to anyone.
The worst car I owned was a 1986 Ford Bronco II. It needed constant repairs, every repair was expensive and it was nearly impossible to work on by myself. Also, the tape deck swallowed my favorite cassette, and I was never able to get it back out.
The most expensive car I owned (repair-wise) was a Nissan 200sx. Every repair, no matter what it was, was at least $350. On the upside, it was ridiculously fun to drive.
Of course, I ride a motorcycle to work and everywhere else now. Repairs are as cheap as you make them (really, most people can learn to maintain and repair a motorcycle), reliablility is a non-issue for most modern bikes and you can pay for a tankful of gas with the change you find in the couch. And, if you aren’t a huge wussy, you can ride all year long.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Sorry to hear about your car.
Excellent example for why one should have an emergency account, this kind of situation could throw many people into a financial spiral!
Glad to hear you are prepared and hope that this can serve as an example to others!
January 9th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Sorry to read about your car. I do think you got ripped one by the dealership. Julie found her local mechanic through one of her neighbors who is a car enthusiast. I’m sure you have a friend who loves cars…and someone has to do his work. This particular mechanic has a shop in a small and dingy commercial park very close by, and you wouldn’t see it or know about it if you were on the road. 100% of his business is referrals or repeats.
Needless to say, she went once and never has gone anywhere else. This guy’s business is so good that my former roommate now is a repeat customer, and a friend of mine who lives in Maryland drives in and is a repeater.
I once had to drop off the car for a relatively minor repair. Waheed took the car and when I came back threw me the keys. “No charge,” he said, “Thanks for bringing your friends.”
When we were preparing to buy a new car, I went to talk to Waheed. I told him what cars I was considered. “Buy the Rav4 Basic,” he said: “It’ll last you a long time, you’ll see me alot less, save alot of money. That’s a good car.”
And then he handed me an actual invoice. “Don’t pay more than 20,400,” he said, almost scolding. “That’s 5% profit for the dealer.
Because of Waheed, I paid much less.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:03 am
I’m sorry to hear you had car troubles, but I agree with one of the most recent posters about getting the coolant leak fixed and save the rest for later.
If the airbag light has been on for a while, and you’ve been driving it with the light on (even though you are a huge advocate of airbags), maybe you can go without it for a couple more weeks. It may just be the sensor that’s bad, and not even the airbag. Why would the airbag all of sudden go bad? Seems odd..I would also shop around for someone to fix the ignition. That’s not a serious problem and reputable mechanic could do it. I’d get quotes.
I have a 99 Corolla w/ over 200,000 miles, and it has only been in the shop once. I felt bad that it hadn’t been in the shop, so I got an oil change and a car wash and nothing was wrong with it (oh..except my third brake light, but I told them I’d fix it on my own).
January 9th, 2008 at 9:08 am
“Are there web sites devoted to reviewing mechanics? Is there some way to tell if a shop is trustworthy? I’ve been taking my car to the dealership ever since I bought it. Maybe that’s not the best choice.”
No, it’s often not the best choice. Dealerships tend to charge more for the same work than an independent. I have not had much luck with websites for recommendations–the sites either clog with ads, end up being too geographically broad, or are out of date.
Just ask. Ask everyone you know. Particularly, ask your neighbors because they live near you. Call up some friends–this gives you an excuse. You’ll find a winner sometime.
I have two good mechanics–one that is slower and not quite as good but quite inexpensive and honest. The other is more expensive (but less than the dealer), has a ton of experience (career mechanics), and also quite honest.
If their waiting room has a stack of letters saying things like, “The dealer told I had to replace X for $1199, and you checked it and found out it was really Y for $175″–that’s a good sign.
My favorite shop is unfailingly polite, takes great pains to explain what’s wrong with the car, and will inform me if it’s actually a warranty repair.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Car repairs shouldn’t be an emergency. I budget $500 a year per car for maintenance, worked out as:
- 1 major service, plus
- oil changes, plus
- $300, enough to repair/replace 1 major assembly with me doing the work.
One benefit from budgeting - as all the parts are budgeted for, there is no mental resistance to just fix problems as you first notice them - replace radiator hoses, belts etc when they first start getting iffy, rather than wait til they fail.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Do you guys in the US have buy-back car loans? We have those in Canada and a few friends of mine swear by them: it’s a hybrid between a loan and a rental. the good part is: if your car’s a lemon, you can give it back after 2 years and the bank has to take it off your hands at no cost to you. It frees you up to buy a new car. How cool is that?
I call it “lemon insurance.”
January 9th, 2008 at 9:18 am
You asked if there is a website where one can read reviews of mechanics and other services. There is: Angie’s List. I haven’t used them myself because there’s a membership fee and I simply haven’t needed the reviews, but I have heard good things about them. Maybe this would be a topic for a future post!
January 9th, 2008 at 9:18 am
I first learned to drive in an old ‘49 Ford pickup truck. At first I thought it was cool, but I quickly found out that FORD means not only “Fix Or Repair Daily” like Ghost reader says above, but also “Found On Roadside Dead”.
Good luck with those repairs!
January 9th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Lise,
We have many lemon laws in the US
January 9th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Let’s also not forget:
F’d Over Rebuilt Dodge.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:29 am
I Hate car problems. I had a slight clacking noise in the engine compartment, sounded minor. Nope - needs a new engine. $4300, which I verified with my brother-in-law who is the best mechanic I know.
On a somewhat related (pun) note, here go my chances at that comp’d Ford vehicle, but my sister-in-law who also owns and hates her Focus refers to it as a Ford F*ck Us.
Nothing but problems.
Good luck.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:32 am
“Are there web sites devoted to reviewing mechanics? Is there some way to tell if a shop is trustworthy?”
Make sure the mechanic you choose is ASE certified. This means they have continual, ongoing training and testing.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Sorry to hear of your car woes - and amen to your having planned for crises in advance. We were just in a head-on accident where everyone walked away but both cars are history.
Upon reflection, it helped answer my blog meta question, What is Money For? You can buy all kinds of distractions with surplus money, but fundamentally, what a surplus provides is peace of mind. Financial sustainability allowed us to not worry: we have good health and car insurance which provided a loaner and a decent settlement towards a new car. I could take a few days off work without worrying about being docked. Having invested heavily in community over the years we had more loving attention than we knew what to do with. So we could focus on healing - and new car shopping - without going into panic about how to cover the bills….
This is the best bonus of living beneath your means - that feeling of security.
I am so grateful.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:37 am
I recommend everyone find a good independant mechanic for their cars. When I moved to my current city I drove an 11 year old Nissan. I found a guy who specialized in imports and he did such a good job he became my regular mechanic. I have a solid relationship with him and I trust him.
I now have a newer (but used) Acura that I was getting serviced at the dealer. Everytime I took it for an oil change they found something else wrong and it was always expensive. I’d take my car to my mechanic and he’d say he didn’t see any problems or he could fix it for much less than Acura.
I am so confident in this guy that my husband and I will now only buy the brands of cars he works on. Sure it limits us greatly, but its so nice to know we can buy good used cars without fear because we know we have a reliable, trustworthy mechanic who will nurse that car to 200,000 miles or more for a reasonable price. I have no question we save BIG money in the long run.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Ah, how fate matches up.
I too had some car repairs needed. Quite a few different things. Got the call this morning with the estimate, added up to $1100 total. Bit of a shocker, but its all stuff that needs to be done.
And, like you, I too had recently started on an emergency fund. Currently have about $2000 in it. Also had about $500 set aside for ‘automotive maintance’; putting $10/week into that ‘fund’.
So it felt nice to confidently tell the shop, “Yes, go ahead and do all the repairs.”, knowing that I wouldn’t have to struggle to pay for it.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:38 am
With every car I have owned, the first thing I did was buy a Chilton book. Or, for my ‘97 Grand Prix (with 195k miles), I shelled out the $70 and bought the OEM Technical Manual.
With the $15 Chilton book (available at about any auto parts store), you can handle most repairs yourself.
I would imagine that equipped with a Chilton and a basic tool set you could have repaired the coolant leak and the ignition yourself. One important thing to note is that you should not try to fix a safety item like an airbag by yourself if you are lacking in auto repair experience.
More than likely on the coolant leak, it was probably a cracked plastic tube or something (you didn’t crack your engine block, or you would be spending a couple grand to replace your engine). One thing to note is that if you have a plastic intake manifold (they like to use plastic intake manifolds on some engines because plastic is cheaper to manufacture), you may have damaged it when it overheated.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:41 am
My sympathies on the car problems. My charge and battery light came on in my 86 Toyota 4Runner so I took it into the dealership. They said it was the alternator (which I suspected from my research). They also listed off a bunch of other things that needed fixed, for a total cost of $2800. When I balked at the cost, they offered to drop it down to $2600. I still balked and said write up a list of what is wrong and I’ll pick the car up. They said the $2600 deal was only good till I picked the car up.
So then I called my mechanic and read them the list of what was wrong. They quoted me $2100, a small fortune, but I needed a car, so I took it in to them.
They called me the next day and told me a bunch of the things that I listed didn’t actually needed any work and that what did would only cost $1500. I told them to go ahead with the repairs.
Moral of the story: use the dealership for small and/or required maintenance, but find a mechanic you can trust for anything else. It’ll save you from having to spend your entire emergency fund.
Ben
January 9th, 2008 at 9:53 am
I would like to add 2 suggestions from prior experiences.
1. Always check with the mechanic (dealer or independent) if they are using re-manufactured parts. The water pump in my parents car failed after 8 years. The OEM used metal fins to propel the fluid. They now replace these with re-manufactured parts which use plastic fins. Which is why it needed to be replaced again 13 months later. OEM might be more expensive, but on certain parts it is worth it (especially if it takes 2 hours of labor to replace the part).
2. Always check to see what the warranty on their service is. The dealer I take my car to is competitive, plus they guarantee all parts and labor for 12 months. That warranty alone has saved me at least once in the past, since the part they replaced was apparently defective and it took a few months for it to break.
Overall, there is a ton of great advice on here!
January 9th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I disagree with the avoid any American vehicle sentiment. While the comment was true in the 80s, the quality gap is just about closed. Take a look at the information provided by intellichoice or consumer reports and there are costly cars to be had. While Toyota, Honda, and Subaru in the past were known for their stellar records, as they have grown in size and market, so have the number of recalls. Some things to remember when buying a vehicle, avoid first and last year models. Have the vehicle inspected, ask for maintenance records, maintain and keep the records.
For reference, I have owned both foreign and domestic vehicles. Last two vehicles were a domestic nameplate (one was a Prizm so one could argue Toyota the other a Saturn VUE). The Prizm is now owned by my brother and it has had issues with the airbag system (known issue for both the Corolla and Prizm). The other is a Saturn VUE 5sp (no CVT for me thanks). While it was a pain the first year and a half of ownership with various visits from annoying squeaks and rattles, the vehicle has proven to be the cheapest new vehicle I have ever owned. Currently, I have 113k miles and am in need of my third set of tires, outer tie rods, and a wheel speed sensor to restore the abs brakes.
I would definitely consider another domestic vehicle if the price is right based on my experience. Sorry for the long post, but there are good and bad vehicles available from all manufacturers.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Ouch, that really stinks. I’m lucky in that I’ve found a garage that I really trust. A few months back I had about the same amount of repairs–nothing was really wrong with the car but I took it in since I was going on a long trip. The guys there said, “You can possibly put this off, but you don’t want to get stranded in West Texas.”
The best thing is they worked out a payment schedule with me where I paid it off over three months without interest. When I was finished paying they sent me a letter (not your average form letter), thanking me for bringing it in.
They’ve definitely gotten a customer for life. It’s out of the way and it might be a little more expensive than other places, but I wouldn’t go anywhere else.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Maybe its just because I live in a small town, or maybe because I don’t have alot of miles on my 2002 Saturn so haven’t had to do major repairs yet, but the dealership here usually offers the best prices on repairs.
The exception used to be tires, but last time I had to get tires, I checked around and everybody all had them for around the same price installed.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:31 am
I would also recommend Angie’s List. I have found not only a great mechanic, but also a great plumber, a great septic tank technician, and other providers. It is a paid service, but I consider it something of an investment compared with what I could lose with unscrupulous service providers.
We just spent $1600 to rebuild my husband’s transmission in his 99 Subaru Forester. As much as it hurt, the car is now paid off, and as he puts 500 miles a week on a car for his commute, we’d rather run it into the ground and direct the car payment amount to other debt.
Being as we have a second kid on the way, the next car purchase will be mine. It will be hard to fit two kids and three large dogs in a pickup. =)
January 9th, 2008 at 10:33 am
@ Tony - You said car repairs shouldn’t be an emergency - and then said you budget $300/year for them. What if the price is (significantly) more than $300? Then what? JD’s is.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:35 am
This reinforces my main mantra to people. You will NEVER break the circle of debt.
I suggest looking at your last two years expenses and seeing what may be an appropriate level for you. Also factor in age of cars etc.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:53 am
I’ll second the previous poster who suggested taking a basic car maintenance class at your local vo-tech/adult education system.Most of them offer a “basic car maintenance for dummies” type class that will offer the basics like how to check and fill the various fluids (oil, coolant, etc.) and similar easy to do things. If you know enough to do some basic checks, you’ll keep the car running much longer and in better shape, and even better, you’ll know when it is time to hand it over to the professionals.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Thanks for posting this story, J.D. I’ve been going through my own car repair saga. My #1 resolution for the new year is to aggressively build an emergency fund for just these situations. Unfortunately, my car decided to break down this past Friday, and now I’m faced with a $2500 repair bill (ouch) and no choice but to pay for it with credit (double ouch).
I’ve been writing about the whole ordeal on my site. Your story has served as a model for where I would like to be very soon! Thank you for sharing.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:01 am
“Car dealership” and “repair” should never be used in the same sentence (except mine, or both treated as nouns).
Scout out a local repair garage in your neighborhood. Ask your neighbors for a few suggestions on who they use. Bring cookies to garage. Make new friends. Always make cookies for Christmas gift to mechanic.
Even if you had to pay to have it towed back to that garage, you’d be way ahead of the game.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:09 am
JD: as for finding a mechanic, the BEST way to do it is find a car club and ask for recommendations, that’s how I found my stellar mechanic.
In the meantime, there’s Yelp, though there’s not a lot of reviews for auto mechanics around portland:
http://www.yelp.com/c/portland/autorepair
The first one listed, Everett Street auto works, has a couple positive reviews. Good Luck! A good mechanic will save you money and keep your car reliable in the long run.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:10 am
JD (and others in the Portland area):
I’d highly recommend Hawthorne Auto Clinic (http://www.hawthorneauto.com/) if you want top-of-the-line service. They know their stuff, and have been impeccably honest. They do cost a bit more than other places, but have been less than the closest dealerships. I found them through the Car Talk website, and my eyes haven’t wandered since.
I’d highly recommend setting aside money on a monthly basis in addition to your emergency fund for the next car purchase. If you were to finance a car now, how much would you be paying monthly? Set that aside in its own account for repairs, and for paying cash the next time you need to buy a car.
-Daniel
January 9th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Lord knows if you’re reading this far down the comments, JD, but have you thought about waiting trading your car for something else before you switch to the Mini? All these horror stories may mean you could do better.
It’s usually a bad idea to change car ownership very often, but I happen to know that Oregon has zero sales tax and low registration costs.
Otherwise, you might about how long you want to keep this car. If you plan to run it in the ground, grill your mechanics about every future repair. If a problem’s not a safety hazard, you can just NOT get it fixed. I probably saved thousands of dollars on my 20 year old Honda by not fixing the: cruise control, 2 broken power windows, A/C, power steering, engine, mounts, ventilation fan speed control, cracked upholstery, among others.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I always try to read every comment. In this case, you folks have offered such great suggestions that if I can bet my box duties taken care of this morning, I’ll try to compile a post built on your comments. But right now I have box sales stuff to take care of.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I have to defend Ford. My Explorer has had nothing wrong with it except a random belt. They changed it and it was reasonible (at the dealership). I think in general, all auto shops need to be taken with suspicion. As a woman, I realize I don’t know jack about my car except that the rotors can be turned within a certain degree, change my oil, check my tire pressure and on the air filter, write the date of when it was last changed so that when they show me the filter and says this needs to be changed, I know whether or not I’m getting screwed.
Also, most cars, if something is wrong with it, when you put the key in the ignition and turn it so that it’s not on, will beep. Depending on the number of beeps, you can put that into the computer they have at the shop and it will give you a general idea of what is wrong.
I still haven’t found an independent garage where I currently live. At my parents, on the other hand, we have a good friend who is a mechanic. I call my dad tell him what is going on and he gets me a general amount. When I get the diagnosis at the ford garage, I say, OK, my dad’s a mechanic and let me talk to him. All prices at the ford garage have been spot on.
But if you’ve already dumped 1200 into a car that you hate (and last year, didn’t you have a decent amount?) that 1200 could have been used as a down payment on a new one. Maybe you’ll get lucky, but once you have a big fix, you usually have something else.
I realize you would prefer to pay cash, but aren’t you in a position that you could have paid off that loan soon and still reached your emergency fund goals?
January 9th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Good job on the EF, it’s a lifesaver!
Bad job on owning a Ford. Another reader already mentioned this, but I’ll say it again since it has held true for my family over the years:
Fix
Or
Repair
Daily
Go with an import next time.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Recently, my transmission on my Grand Prix began faltering. I found a local garage that was able to diagnose the problem, and offered to fix it for $1450 plus tax. This wasn’t that big of an issue, as I had a fully-stocked emergency fund. I tried haggling on the price with the mechanic, but to no avail. He wouldn’t budge on the price. Knowing that I had the money sitting in an account, I asked if I could get a discount if I paid in cash. We immediately agreed to $1300, with no tax, all for just paying with cash. Having an emergency fund is great, not only because I don’t have to pay interest on a credit card, but also because I get a discount because I have the money available. Usually the retailers don’t mind, as they would have had to send Visa money if I paid with my card anyway.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Though not available in all areas, I have found http://www.checkbook.org to be a wonderful resource. One may consider it in addition to using Angie’s List. It basically functions as a “Consumer Reports” for services instead of products. Thus, the process of finding a reliable, local mechanic is simplified. If Consumers’ Checkbook, a non-profit, does not cover your area, maybe a similar organization does. I have also used this service to find awesome dentists, doctors, and dry cleaners.
January 9th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
you spent $1165 on a car you don’t like? Why not drive a rental for a week and then buy a new one? The monthly payments wouldn’t be that much and you’d have no maintenance issues for at least two years. Old cars are like money pits - you’d save so much in maintenance costs over the long run w/ a new one - that’s the best investment imo.
January 9th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
[...] I read JD’s car woes at Get Rich Slowly. As you all know, I can sympathize. He was extolling the virtues of having an emergency fund to pay [...]
January 9th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I can’t speak to the Ford issue, because I’ve only bought Hondas and Toyotas so far. (And given that the Toyota was assembled in Newark, CA, I’m not sure how “imported” it is.)
I am the slightly-ashamed owner of a cosmetically-challenged 14-yo Toyota Corolla that has only required $1-2k/yr (repairs maintenance) since 1996, when we paid off the last car loan we’re planning to have.
I have to disagree with the folks who say it’s better to buy new than fixed used. If anyone can get me a new car for less than the $80-175/mo I’m spending to maintain my old car, tell me how!
The best advice I’ve heard for choosing whether to fix a car or move onto another car purchase is whether you’d buy the current car for the amount of the repair bill. (JD, I’d guess that your heart says no, but your frugal head says yes.
)
January 9th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
My husband goes to the dealership first and gets a complete list and estimate of the repairs and then he goes somewhere else (non-dealership).
Recently my neighbor has provided some (not all, big repair on my car was done by another shop) repairs on our cars. We assume since he is a neighbor and friend he is not screwing us over and since we always go in with having seen a dealership quote we have something to compare his prices to.
Husband has also been trying to do more of his own maintenance, i.e. oil change, which I think is great as long as we have a way to properly dispose of the oil.
And my husband walks me through a math formula each time I whine about not wanting to spend more money on an old car that I hate. We look at how much we’ve spent on maintenance and repair for the year (we’ve got the data in Quicken) plus the new repair bill and then we divide it by 12 if its less than a monthly car payment on the car I want (which I’m saving up for) then I have to stop moaning and groaning about much I hate my car. Plus since I’m saving for a new car I have available car repair funds in my new car account.
January 9th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
I have another suggestion for finding a good mechanic. Talk to single, middle-aged women and see who they take their cars to. I know this sounds crazy, but… I am a librarian and many of the women I work with are single and thrifty (why aren’t master-degreed librians paid more?). Anyway, these women are always a good source of the best places to go for good reliable sources for just about anything, including mechanics. And if you keep hearing the same name over and over chances are they have the trust of smart, thrifty women. If a woman can find a mechanic she trusts then you know he must be good - we’re tough customers cause we are very skeptical of mechanics taking advantage of women. They don’t have to be librarians - but just find some smart, single, middle-aged women and ask them who repairs their car.
January 9th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Back when I was in law school I destroyed my car in an accident (car was mangled but I was perfectly fine). Because it was an old car, I only had liability coverage. Luckily at the time I still had my parents to financially bail me out by providing me a new vehicle. That’s why now as an adult, I find it so important to have sufficient savings and funds to cover such unexpected expenditures. Car repairs can get awfully expensive quick! Thanks for the story!
-Raymond
January 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
As bad as it sucks to have things go wrong when I’m in financial straights it is often surpassed by the small victory of dealing/repairing the issue myself.
In 2007 I did about six repairs to my wifes car that would have easily totaled over $1000.
January 9th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Once I stopped taking my car to the dealership, I stopped having problems with it! I often wonder if the repair department there is under pressure to make more $ from a lack of new car sales?
Anyway, cars do need repairs, and I’ve always, always disliked car repair expenses. But like you, this time I have an emergency fund. And one way I like to look at it too is at least I’m not having to make monthly car payments. But I know the feeling of what you are going through –it’s a downer, for sure. It’s a good life lesson for others who don’t have an emergency fund to save for one — what if your water heater went out tomorrow? what if we’re hit w/3 or more things all in the same week? Could we cover the expenses without using a charge card? I really want to make sure I always have a sizable emergency fund in place, and rebuild it after I’ve had to use it. Another good reason why we have to spend less than what we earn.
January 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Horrible news about the car, but helpful that you have the fund! A few years ago I had a catastrophic failure with my PowerBook while I was traveling and I desperately needed a notebook to tide me over since I was doing some PowerPoint presentations at a conference; fortunately, I had an emergency fund which saved the day for me too.
-
Ryan
http://uncommon-cents.net/
January 9th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
You got screwed by the stealership. The thermostat housing leak is very common on a focus. It is a $50 part and takes 15 minutes to replace. Even if you didn’t want to make the repair yourself, a decent mechanic would only charge you $100 for the part and labor. ($65 minimum hour labor charge plus $35 for the part - mechanic will get a discount on the part)
January 9th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
What is the best amount for an emergency fund? I was shooting for $10K…..am I way off?
January 9th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Wow… it must be the week of Car betrayal. I just got mine out of the shop yesterday. I was at first told my brakes (rotors and pads needed to be replaced) would cost $700. We thought that was rediculous and told them so and somehow they got the price down over $200. I would ask them to use aftermarket parts etc. to hopefully help lower the cost.
January 9th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Very sorry to hear ’bout the car.
For big-ticket items, you don’t carry on with repairs or you buy until you sign the dotted line. This is YOUR big-ticket item and how much will THEY work for the sale? You can counter with - “Huh. If you came down to X dollars I might fix it. But if it’s your rip-off quote, screw it. (oh that sounds scary. they won’t get the dinero) Are you gonna come down to X dollars for me?” And you’ve called my brother if you’re lucky who knows cars or you called your car mechanic back in your community and you say, “Mechanic Y quotes this much. Why are you so far off? This sounds very rotten.”
Now this all takes cahones and it might be a time when you’re feeling low. Call reinforcements - family, spouse, tightwad people. Desperate times. Desperate measures.
You might not be nice anymore when you’re at this level of negotiation. You might be a jerk/b**ch. I still doubt you will make any mechanics cry.
Be strong, consumers, and good luck.
Carol
January 9th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Now that’s interesting: last night MY Ford Focus started getting hot, too!
I pulled over to a gas station just before the gauge went into the red. All the fluids were OK. I continued to my destination and parked before it got too hot again, then to home just in time.
This AM I dropped it off at a reputable mechanic (it’s due anyway for a check-up).
At least I’m able to drive it short distances, which suggests to me it’s a coolant issue - perhaps the pump is defective or dead.
I once had a car lose all its coolant, then overheat and crack the engine before I even noticed there was a problem!
Our car saga is a whole post in itself, but I should say: so far I love this car! It’s spritely, has few problems, good mileage and looks nice. I think we were lucky - I see others here say they can be unreliable.
January 9th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
In my opinion, you were paying primarily for deferred maintenance on your car. This really isn’t what an emergency fund is for.
January 9th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
106 comments already…. the repair may cost you over $1000, but this article should bring in a couple thousand worth of symapthy ad clicks!
And not to beat a dead horse, but I think I would agree with all the other commentors here, it sounds like they are trying to rake you over the coals.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
For a local independant shop try the mechanics file at cartalk.com. I drive a 14 year old car and when moving to a new city, I always ask around. If a person answers “my mechanic is OK” that is not the mechanic for me. A good one will be honest that one particular problem needs to be watched and another needs immediate attention.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
One word: Toyota.
Oh, heck, take that back. One word: BARF!
Car repairs are awrful, especially the unexpected horrors. Sorry to hear about yours!
Second, third and fourth everything other commenters say about dealerships. The only time I take a car to a dealership for service is when it’s still on the warranty. After that it goes to an honest repairman. And yes, that applies to Toyota, too.
After unending hassles with a Ford–luckily we lived within walking distance of the dealership, because I literally (no exaggeration!) was taking it in every second day–I will never own another American car as long as I live. They are junk and the people who sell them are crooks. After a while I became convinced that the service department was deliberately breaking something new every time I took the car in. Toyota, which used to be great because they had to “try harder,” is no longer much better, but at least their product runs fairly trouble-free for about 100,000 miles. Especially if you can find a decent independent garage.
Ask your friends for references to real mechanics.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Sorry to hear about your troubles.
You may want to see if you can haggle down the labor on the ignition. If they have to work on the airbag they will most likely have to go into the steering column anyway so they may be charging you twice on the labor to open the steering column.
Good luck!
January 9th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Mechanic in Hillsboro that I know personally and is great: Clay’s Auto Service.
Clay runs the place and has a few other mechanics working under him. His wife is the front desk person, and sometimes his kids are running around the place. He was my Dad’s friend a long time ago and we have been taking our cars to him for years. He is a very honest man and has competitive prices (last time I compared). His shop is on Cornell in Hillsboro just before Cornell turns into downtown Hillsboro. Phone number is in the phone book.
Give him a shot in the future. Sometimes he is really busy but he will try to fit in emergencies if he can.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Instead of using your emergency fund to pay for repairs in the future, have you considered a separate budget with money set aside just for car repairs? My husband and I have done this for twelve years and it has been a real life saver on many occasions. I also recently started a car replacement fund using ING Direct’s high yield savings account. We plan to drive our used 1993 Toyota Previa van into the ground. It’s still incredibly reliable and problem free, but when it does need to be replaced I’m aiming for paying with cash rather than taking on debt.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
[...] I encourage you to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!Thanks to everyone who offered advice on my car troubles. It’s too bad most of the repairs were already completed when the article went live — [...]
January 9th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
i have an emergency fund but whenever i have to dip into it, i feel really bad. thanks for reminding me what it’s really there for. now i won’t be upset anymore when i need to use it. instead, i will be grateful that i don’t need to borrow money or get into credit card debt to cover an emergency expense.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
[...] just read JD’s Car Trouble post. His experience reminded me of my own experience from two years [...]
January 10th, 2008 at 5:03 am
This sounds lame, but have you tried a squirt of WD-40 in the tumbler? I am pretty sure that’s what a dealership did one time when my key was having problems (I could smell it.)
January 10th, 2008 at 7:20 am
How weird…just had to get my cheap “Dave Ramsey” beater repaired today to the tune of $1300. Its a Honda Accord, so its not so bad, but I wasn’t planning on spending that much in this car when I bought it. But, like you said, this is why we have the emergency fund and its better than a $400.00/month car payment.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:13 am
Look for specialists too. A good general mechanic is most important, but often there are things that specialists can do for less money. Three things that come to mind are batteries, tires, and exhaust.
Batteries: Sears many auto parts stores have good deals, good products, and free installation.
Tires: Online tire sales are great. Do a bit of research on what various letters and numbers mean for tires (you can usually do this at the website itself), read the customer reviews for tires that interest you, and get them. Have them shipped to your house and have a local garage balance, mount, and install them.
Exhaust: Find an independent specialty/custom exhaust shop, not Midas or Speedy, or some other chain, but a local place. You don’t have to be looking to slap a loud coffee can muffler on your Honda Civic to use a custom shop. Because they can fabricate parts themselves, in their shop, they can often repair your exhaust, or just cut out and replace portions of the pipes and such that have problems, rather than replacing it.
Cars and car parts are just like any other consumer product, if you want to get the best deal, you have to do the research first. You don’t have to do much though, and as we own cars for say 4-10 years (if we are lucky) then you probably only have to do the research once, find what you like and what works, and then go with what that for the rest of the time that you own the car.
Joining the other Subaru owners on this board, I have a 97 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport, with 326,000 miles on it. While this has largely to due with the fact that I do a significant amount of highway driving (operating at long, steady-states what machines like), I would also add several things to contribute to car longevity, they are simple, but often ignored or let slip:
1) Get your oil changed every 5000 miles or so. Consider a swap to synthetic oil.
2) Get the coolant levels checked regularly and flushed annually.
2) Keep your car tuned up, at least every 60,000 miles or so.
3) Get your car washed and waxed every couple of months. Maybe more in winter and get the undercarriage wash, especially if you live in an area where they salt the roads during winter.
4) Look at your regular parking spot when your car is not in it. Watch for any puddles. Most automotive fluids are colored, so it’s easier to tell what’s leaking (oil, power steering fluid, coolant, etc) and what needs to be repaired, or just watched.
5) Look at your car. Every now and then just walk around it. Look for new scrapes and dings, stuff hanging off under the car, etc. Listen to how it runs, get used to it’s “normal” noises. If you have a feel for the usual state of your car, then you will be more likely to notice the small things that may occur and head them off before they become big things.
As we often talk about cheap vs. frugal on this site, I have to add three things, IMO, that you should never skimp on for your car: Tires, brakes, battery. Buy the best you can afford and search for a good deal on them. You want your car to start reliably on those cold mornings and dark nights, and tires and brakes are what keep you in control and on the road.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Oh, and for the Subaru owners amongst us, if you are in eastern Massachusetts and looking for an independent Subaru Mechanic, try Speen Street Automotive in Framingham. They are great. They specialize in Subarus but also work on other cars too. I’ve sent friends there to have Toyota and Hondas worked on as well and they all had good experiences.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:50 am
I realize the focus cars were designed by Europeans - but I still will not buy American. I had a GM Saturn until I gave it away. They sure do like to cut corners. We currently have a Subaru that was put together in the US that has minor problems but it is still going strong after 146k. We just replaced the clutch and a sensor (the minor problems). The clutch was about $450 just for the parts and we are lucky to be able to do the work ourselves. A few miles ago we replaced the brakes. Over the past few years it has been city driving only so these things happen. And BTW, this is the “lemon” Subaru of the bunch both of us have owned. I suspect Mr. Sube will last well into the 200-300k like the others without major repairs other than brakes and clutch.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:43 am
I agree with most posts going with an independent shop vs. dealership. I recently needed a new axel boot as per the place where I got my oil change. As a woman, I always have to stand firm and say ‘No, not right now’ and they’re pretty surprised. What I do right afterwards, is call around at least 3-4 places (including Honda dealership) to compare the rates and the service. Some will replace the entire axel not just the boot.
Cost at Firestone where I got the entire axel replaced: $290 (parts & labor)
Cost at Honda Dealership: $ 600 approx. He said it was about $300 for the axel part and $300 for the labor.
Other places such as Pepboys, R&S Strauss hover around the same cost range as Firestone. I chose Firestone because I previously purchased 2 years ago a ‘lifetime alignment’ so on top of the axel replacement I also received my free alignment.
I read some great advise from this thread.
January 10th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Ditch that car! Buy a Honda or Toyota. It’s a no brainer.
My A/C Compressor went out in my 2000 Honda Civic. Dealer quoted me $1200. Nearby to my house an A/C repair shop did it for me for $600…the same day.
Oil changes, new tires, timing belt, and the A/C compressor is the only thing I’ve had to do to it and it’s got 104,000 miles. And it gets 35 mpg city/ 45 hwy (HX Coupe). Had an Accord that lasted 14 years before the Civic, too.
January 10th, 2008 at 10:54 am
according to kelly blue book, a 2000 ford focus SE sedan (I guessed it was an SE not an LX) is worth anywhere from 3700-4600 dollars if it has 80000 (assuming just over 10k miles per year) depending on the condition. What that means is, the price you paid to repair a few of the problems with it (and surely, if it over heated you are bound t see more) was at least 25% of the total cost of the cars and possibly significantly more. Combined with the hatred for the car, you may have been better off just replacing it with a used car in better condition. You could probably get 3k as a trade in for that car, plus the 1100 you just spent on repairs, you already have something worth more than your current car.
January 10th, 2008 at 11:29 am
In case you have not heard of this before, the terms “sleazy mechanic” and “sleazy car salesman” are double redundancy
I used to own a volvo then a ford taurus and there was no end in sight to getting things fixed, even if I fixed most problems myself. I finally settled on the cheapest japanese car I can afford (a nissan) and been using it for over 12 years now with no problems (knock on wood). although toyota and honda are known to be reliable, I think their price premium is a bit too much compared to nissan and maybe mazda. I think even kia and hyundais are getting good reviews from consumer report.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Emergency funds have saved my butt on a few occasions… and they’re great in this situation.
My concern,though, would be more focused on the maintenance that COULD HAVE happened in the past (checking on that airbag light and getting the ignition fixed) and how much easier it would have been to stomach those prices individually rather than lump summed together with this additional problem.
I think you’ve posted some links to car maintenance websites or blogs… and most of them espouse taking care of any car problems immediately to prevent them from compounding in the future. I’ve taken this as very very good advice.
And referrals are definitely the best place to find good mechanics or maintenance centers. Everyone I know drives, which means they’ve had to have had car service somewhere at some point, and sometimes I’m suprised to find that so-and-sos dad is the manager at XYZ Shop.
But it’s great to read a success story centered around a tenant of personal finance.
January 10th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
I didn’t read through all the suggestions so don’t know if this has been addressed, but there is one point of comfort. $1200 dollars is about three car payments for a new car of similar class. Maybe four to five car payments for a two year old one. While it might be small comfort if you really hate your car and really want a newer one, keep in mind what you’d be spending for something new and hopefully it that will take a little of the sting out of it.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I hear ya on that one. My transmission decided to fail when I was 350 miles from home. It cost $250 to rent a U-Haul truck and car trailer to tow my car to my mechanic. I found a used transmission on car-part.com for $500, and my mechanic did the labor for $150. Well, I also found out that one of my wheel spokes had