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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Simplify, Simplify!&#8221; &#8212; In the Footsteps of Thoreau</title>
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	<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/</link>
	<description>personal finance that makes cents</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 04:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Thought</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114718</link>
		<dc:creator>Thought</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114718</guid>
		<description>Julie: I don't know where you got your information but it's quite incorrect.  

First, Thoreau did not drink alcohol, much less hang out in pubs socializing...he was more of a solitary personality.  On alcohol, Thoreau wrote: "I would fain keep sober always... I believe that water is the only drink for a wise man; wine is not so noble a liquor... Of all ebriosity, who does not prefer to be intoxicated by the air he breathes?"

In fact, Thoreau led a very disciplined lifestyle...he didn't smoke, never married, and didn't even drink coffee.  He was mostly a vegetarian as well.

As for the part about his mother bringing over home cooked meals, that seems a bit far fetched as well.  BTW, Thoreau's mother, as was Thoreau, as was his entire family, was very active in the abolitionist movement.

Thoreau in many ways was way ahead of his time, and championed 3 major movements: the environmental movement, the anti-slavery movement, and the philosophy of non-violence and civil disobedience.  Both Ghandi and Martin Luther King credit Thoreau as being a major inspiration.  In advocating land preservation, Thoreau was an influence in creating our national park system.  

Thoreau was not just some guy who hung out in the woods living a simple life; he truly had an enormous historical impact, largely through the force and purity of his ideals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julie: I don&#8217;t know where you got your information but it&#8217;s quite incorrect.  </p>
<p>First, Thoreau did not drink alcohol, much less hang out in pubs socializing&#8230;he was more of a solitary personality.  On alcohol, Thoreau wrote: &#8220;I would fain keep sober always&#8230; I believe that water is the only drink for a wise man; wine is not so noble a liquor&#8230; Of all ebriosity, who does not prefer to be intoxicated by the air he breathes?&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, Thoreau led a very disciplined lifestyle&#8230;he didn&#8217;t smoke, never married, and didn&#8217;t even drink coffee.  He was mostly a vegetarian as well.</p>
<p>As for the part about his mother bringing over home cooked meals, that seems a bit far fetched as well.  BTW, Thoreau&#8217;s mother, as was Thoreau, as was his entire family, was very active in the abolitionist movement.</p>
<p>Thoreau in many ways was way ahead of his time, and championed 3 major movements: the environmental movement, the anti-slavery movement, and the philosophy of non-violence and civil disobedience.  Both Ghandi and Martin Luther King credit Thoreau as being a major inspiration.  In advocating land preservation, Thoreau was an influence in creating our national park system.  </p>
<p>Thoreau was not just some guy who hung out in the woods living a simple life; he truly had an enormous historical impact, largely through the force and purity of his ideals.</p>
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		<title>By: Arp</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114480</link>
		<dc:creator>Arp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114480</guid>
		<description>I appreciate the general idea behind simplicity.  I went through a period of financial hardship that really made me appreciate the simple things and focus on what aspects of my life were truly fulfilling.  I've been more focussed and satisfied with life since, but I wouldn't want to go back that forced hardship again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate the general idea behind simplicity.  I went through a period of financial hardship that really made me appreciate the simple things and focus on what aspects of my life were truly fulfilling.  I&#8217;ve been more focussed and satisfied with life since, but I wouldn&#8217;t want to go back that forced hardship again.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114404</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114404</guid>
		<description>I am from Concord and boy do I miss it, what a great place - except for winter. Glad you learned so much while staying near there and visiting Walden Pond!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am from Concord and boy do I miss it, what a great place - except for winter. Glad you learned so much while staying near there and visiting Walden Pond!</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Is your stuff holding you back? Early Retirement Extreme: The self-sufficient, environmentally friendly, frugal, and capitalistic fast track to financial independence and a simpler lifestyle.</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114358</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Is your stuff holding you back? Early Retirement Extreme: The self-sufficient, environmentally friendly, frugal, and capitalistic fast track to financial independence and a simpler lifestyle.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114358</guid>
		<description>[...] Now perhaps it is understandable, why I really don&#8217;t like stuff. It is holding me back!  Other readings:Simplify, Simplify!” — In the Footsteps of Thoreau [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Now perhaps it is understandable, why I really don&#8217;t like stuff. It is holding me back!  Other readings:Simplify, Simplify!” — In the Footsteps of Thoreau [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114357</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114357</guid>
		<description>Not to denigrate Thoreau or Walden Pond, but even he did not live up to the ideals that he was writing about.  His doting mother came over with home cooked meals regularily, he often stayed overnight with the Emersons when the loneliness overcame him and he spent many an evening in town at the pub drinking and socializing until late into the night.  You won't read a word of this in his book though since it doesn't exactly mesh with what he was saying about charity and solitary living. 

It reminds me of something  my mother once said to my 20-something brother who was still living at home while working a bit and trying to find himself.  She said that he was able to do what he did because she did what she did.  

Brad- thanks for the reference to Murakami! It's definitely a book I'm going to look into.  His philosophy and outlook has definitely piqued my interest.

~ J.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to denigrate Thoreau or Walden Pond, but even he did not live up to the ideals that he was writing about.  His doting mother came over with home cooked meals regularily, he often stayed overnight with the Emersons when the loneliness overcame him and he spent many an evening in town at the pub drinking and socializing until late into the night.  You won&#8217;t read a word of this in his book though since it doesn&#8217;t exactly mesh with what he was saying about charity and solitary living. </p>
<p>It reminds me of something  my mother once said to my 20-something brother who was still living at home while working a bit and trying to find himself.  She said that he was able to do what he did because she did what she did.  </p>
<p>Brad- thanks for the reference to Murakami! It&#8217;s definitely a book I&#8217;m going to look into.  His philosophy and outlook has definitely piqued my interest.</p>
<p>~ J.</p>
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		<title>By: Nascar</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114291</link>
		<dc:creator>Nascar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114291</guid>
		<description>Wow, that's beautifully written. I have read Thoreau when younger but didn't fully grasped its full concepts. Really awesome that you were able to apply what your learned on your journey into your craft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that&#8217;s beautifully written. I have read Thoreau when younger but didn&#8217;t fully grasped its full concepts. Really awesome that you were able to apply what your learned on your journey into your craft.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Dablemont</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114288</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Dablemont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114288</guid>
		<description>Great article! I couldn't agree more about simplicity and its importance in people's life. Especially in a world like it is now, in which so much more importance is given to vain things. Like some author said, if we want to learn something new, we have to read older books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article! I couldn&#8217;t agree more about simplicity and its importance in people&#8217;s life. Especially in a world like it is now, in which so much more importance is given to vain things. Like some author said, if we want to learn something new, we have to read older books.</p>
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		<title>By: Katana</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114275</link>
		<dc:creator>Katana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 23:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114275</guid>
		<description>Oh! 

I want very MUCH to go away for awhile and live in the woods and am not sure how the logistics would work. Perhaps a post about that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh! </p>
<p>I want very MUCH to go away for awhile and live in the woods and am not sure how the logistics would work. Perhaps a post about that?</p>
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		<title>By: RacerX</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114261</link>
		<dc:creator>RacerX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114261</guid>
		<description>To echo Plonkee:

To not covet Stuffitis...Good
UnaBomber Cabin...Bad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To echo Plonkee:</p>
<p>To not covet Stuffitis&#8230;Good<br />
UnaBomber Cabin&#8230;Bad</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114258</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114258</guid>
		<description>My husband and I were greatly influenced by Thoreau's message some 15 years ago when we sold out too-big house &#38; most of the stuff in it, moved to a place we love, and got jobs that leave us richer emotionally (if not financially).  We strive daily to have less but live more - not easy to do in our consumer-driven culture.  

Wonderful essay, Mr. Cunningham.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband and I were greatly influenced by Thoreau&#8217;s message some 15 years ago when we sold out too-big house &amp; most of the stuff in it, moved to a place we love, and got jobs that leave us richer emotionally (if not financially).  We strive daily to have less but live more - not easy to do in our consumer-driven culture.  </p>
<p>Wonderful essay, Mr. Cunningham.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: zach</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114252</link>
		<dc:creator>zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114252</guid>
		<description>I once heard "if you can't meditate in a boiler-room, then you aren't meditating properly".  In other words, if you can't find beauty where you're at, then you aren't living with the right mindset.

That being said, some people (myself included) need a little crutch: live with what you think is beautiful, then re-enter the life you want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once heard &#8220;if you can&#8217;t meditate in a boiler-room, then you aren&#8217;t meditating properly&#8221;.  In other words, if you can&#8217;t find beauty where you&#8217;re at, then you aren&#8217;t living with the right mindset.</p>
<p>That being said, some people (myself included) need a little crutch: live with what you think is beautiful, then re-enter the life you want.</p>
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		<title>By: brad</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114244</link>
		<dc:creator>brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114244</guid>
		<description>@kristin: I lived on Thoreau Street in Concord for five years in the 1980s, and it's true, most people in Concord didn't see much mystique in Walden Pond. It was mainly viewed as a good place to go swimming (I myself used to go skinny-dipping there several nights a week in summer). But Walden wasn't pristine even in Thoreau's day. I remember once when I was swimming there and the train roared by; one of the other swimmers stoppd to watch the train and said, "Thoreau must be turning over in his grave to know that they put the train tracks so close to where he had his hut," but in fact the train ran by the pond when Thoreau lived there, and he often used to take that train to Boston.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@kristin: I lived on Thoreau Street in Concord for five years in the 1980s, and it&#8217;s true, most people in Concord didn&#8217;t see much mystique in Walden Pond. It was mainly viewed as a good place to go swimming (I myself used to go skinny-dipping there several nights a week in summer). But Walden wasn&#8217;t pristine even in Thoreau&#8217;s day. I remember once when I was swimming there and the train roared by; one of the other swimmers stoppd to watch the train and said, &#8220;Thoreau must be turning over in his grave to know that they put the train tracks so close to where he had his hut,&#8221; but in fact the train ran by the pond when Thoreau lived there, and he often used to take that train to Boston.</p>
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		<title>By: J.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114237</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114237</guid>
		<description>I, too, have felt the lure of Thoreau. (Kris hates him.) I recognize that much of his philosophy borders on the hypocritical ("Look how little I can live with! Hey, neighbor, can I borrow all your tools?"), but I love the &lt;i&gt;ideas&lt;/i&gt; behind what he writes. Plus, &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Walden&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; is packed with instructive aphorisms.

I think simplicity is a noble aim, but difficult to reach. As others have noted, there's a difference between simplicity and "doing without". I think Leo at &lt;a href="http://www.zenhabits.net" rel="nofollow"&gt;Zen Habits&lt;/a&gt; does a great job of showing what modern simplicity can look like. He's all about the power of less.

Also, it's important to note that there's a difference between frugality/simplicity and actual poverty. The first is a conscious choice; the latter is not.

I need to re-read Thoreau. It's been a decade. His ideas are central to the modern simplicity movement, and it would be interesting to discuss him here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, have felt the lure of Thoreau. (Kris hates him.) I recognize that much of his philosophy borders on the hypocritical (&#8221;Look how little I can live with! Hey, neighbor, can I borrow all your tools?&#8221;), but I love the <i>ideas</i> behind what he writes. Plus, <i><b>Walden</b></i> is packed with instructive aphorisms.</p>
<p>I think simplicity is a noble aim, but difficult to reach. As others have noted, there&#8217;s a difference between simplicity and &#8220;doing without&#8221;. I think Leo at <a href="http://www.zenhabits.net" rel="nofollow">Zen Habits</a> does a great job of showing what modern simplicity can look like. He&#8217;s all about the power of less.</p>
<p>Also, it&#8217;s important to note that there&#8217;s a difference between frugality/simplicity and actual poverty. The first is a conscious choice; the latter is not.</p>
<p>I need to re-read Thoreau. It&#8217;s been a decade. His ideas are central to the modern simplicity movement, and it would be interesting to discuss him here.</p>
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		<title>By: plonkee</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114235</link>
		<dc:creator>plonkee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114235</guid>
		<description>It seems like there are two sorts of simplicity, there's having less stuff and there's having an uncluttered life. 

I think that living simply, if it means only doing and having the things that you love, is great. 

On the other hand, getting rid of stuff for it's own sake, and making life difficult in the process, is probably less good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like there are two sorts of simplicity, there&#8217;s having less stuff and there&#8217;s having an uncluttered life. </p>
<p>I think that living simply, if it means only doing and having the things that you love, is great. </p>
<p>On the other hand, getting rid of stuff for it&#8217;s own sake, and making life difficult in the process, is probably less good.</p>
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		<title>By: brad</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114232</link>
		<dc:creator>brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114232</guid>
		<description>I think it's important to separate the concept of "simplicity" from the idea of "doing without." I don't think you have to withdraw from modern society or shun material possessions in order to live simply; for me it's largely a matter of limiting my outside commitments (i.e., learning to say no); automating to the extent possible the paying of bills, mortgage, and other financial management; and thinking carefully about the time commitment involved in anything I purchase or any project I undertake.

I'm in the middle of reading Jay Rubin's excellent book on the work of Haruki Murakami, "Haruki Murakami and the Music of Words" (Rubin is one of Murakami's translators, I'd say the best of his translators in English), and he quotes this great line from Murakami's first novel:
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;"In order for there to be true art, there necessarily has to be slavery. That's how it was with the ancient Greeks: while the slaves worked the fields, prepared the meals, and rowed the ships, the citizens would bask beneath the Mediterranean sun, rapt in poetical composition or engaged in their mathematics. That's how it is with art. Mere humans who root through their refrigerators at three o'clock in the morning can only produce writing that matches what they do.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The relevance of that passage, for me, is not that we need slaves, but that we need to use technology and our own wits to reduce the amount of time we have to spend dealing with all the mundane tasks of daily life, so we can live more simply and have richer lives. Technology should be our slave; too often it ends up the other way around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s important to separate the concept of &#8220;simplicity&#8221; from the idea of &#8220;doing without.&#8221; I don&#8217;t think you have to withdraw from modern society or shun material possessions in order to live simply; for me it&#8217;s largely a matter of limiting my outside commitments (i.e., learning to say no); automating to the extent possible the paying of bills, mortgage, and other financial management; and thinking carefully about the time commitment involved in anything I purchase or any project I undertake.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in the middle of reading Jay Rubin&#8217;s excellent book on the work of Haruki Murakami, &#8220;Haruki Murakami and the Music of Words&#8221; (Rubin is one of Murakami&#8217;s translators, I&#8217;d say the best of his translators in English), and he quotes this great line from Murakami&#8217;s first novel:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;In order for there to be true art, there necessarily has to be slavery. That&#8217;s how it was with the ancient Greeks: while the slaves worked the fields, prepared the meals, and rowed the ships, the citizens would bask beneath the Mediterranean sun, rapt in poetical composition or engaged in their mathematics. That&#8217;s how it is with art. Mere humans who root through their refrigerators at three o&#8217;clock in the morning can only produce writing that matches what they do.</p></blockquote>
<p>The relevance of that passage, for me, is not that we need slaves, but that we need to use technology and our own wits to reduce the amount of time we have to spend dealing with all the mundane tasks of daily life, so we can live more simply and have richer lives. Technology should be our slave; too often it ends up the other way around.</p>
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		<title>By: kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114230</link>
		<dc:creator>kristin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/01/27/simplify-simplify-in-the-footsteps-of-thoreau/#comment-114230</guid>
		<description>Its interesting how many of us that read Thoreau revere him.  I also made a trek to Walden pond about 13 years ago while in the area on business.  I was eager to walk through the same woods as Thoreau, but was stunned to find the city dump across the road and diseased trout in the pond! Evidently, those from afar revere him more than those that are near.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its interesting how many of us that read Thoreau revere him.  I also made a trek to Walden pond about 13 years ago while in the area on business.  I was eager to walk through the same woods as Thoreau, but was stunned to find the city dump across the road and diseased trout in the pond! Evidently, those from afar revere him more than those that are near.</p>
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