Ask the Readers: Quality Early Retirement Resources?
Friday, 8th February 2008 (by J.D.)This article is about Ask the Readers, Planning, Retirement
Most of the advice at Get Rich Slowly is targeted to people like me: middle-class Americans in their mid-thirties who have struggled with debt. But many other people have money questions, too. Christine is 54 and her husband is 62. They’re seeking quality resources about planning for retirement:
You and most of your readers are at a different life stage than I am. I’ve done the heavy frugality thing already. From a couple of decades ahead of you, I can report that your way of looking at things will carry you pretty gently through the economic rough patches. Being free of debt (except a reasonable mortgage), knowing how to cut back spending when you need to, keeping some emergency money, having insurance against the big catastrophes, and discovering various ways of earning money all work together to keep things going when the unexpected happens.
My husband and I never had high incomes — we’re a teacher and a librarian — but at this point in my life, I feel rich. When something breaks, we get it fixed. If we had to quit work tomorrow we’d be okay, though we might be taking hiking trips to Colorado rather than Argentina or Europe.
We’re looking at retirement in the near-term, but we have a lot of questions. When should we retire? Obviously the longer we wait, the safer we’ll be financially. But we run the risk of not being able to have the active vacations that we enjoy when we are older. Can we kayak in Alaska in our 80’s? And how do we balance our age difference? And we won’t be traveling all the time. What will we do with the rest of our lives?
Some early retirement books I’ve seen tend to gloss over the difficulties, especially health insurance, though they often have some useful information. I’ve also been looking for a blog about these issues, but I’m not finding it. Can you or your readers offer some advice for this end of the get rich slowly journey?
This is a good opportunity for older readers to chime in. I’ve read very little about traditional retirement. Most of my research has focused on early retirement (or semi-retirement). I’ve read (or browsed) books such as:
- Cashing in on the American Dream: How to Retire at 35 by Paul Terhorst. This 1988 book is out-of-print and, in many ways, out-of-date, but it’s considered a classic in the small body of early retirement literature. I began to read it a couple of months ago, and found the broad advice inspirational (though the specific advice was no longer applicable).
- Timothy Ferriss’ The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich is a modern book similar to Terhorst’s. The author has a blog about experiments in lifestyle design, which is his euphemism for creative semi-retirement. Though I don’t agree with all that Ferriss has to say, he’s jam-packed with ideas. This is a good book for motivated young adults. [My review.]
- Work Less, Live More: The Way to Semi-Retirement by Bob Clyatt describes techniques for leaving the traditional job path years (or decades) before the traditional retirement age of 65. This book is like a toned-down, practical version of The 4-Hour Workweek. I like it. A lot.
- Die Broke by Stephen M. Pollan offers a non-traditional retirement program designed to maximize the use of your retirement savings. Most of this book is a catalog of tips on specific subjects, including health insurance.
- Fred Brock’s Retire on Less Than You Think argues that the traditional rule of thumb — you’ll need 80% of your pre-retirement salary during later years — is misguided. He focuses on expenses not income. This book contains a 23-page chapter devoted to the problem of health insurance.
Of these, I’d most recommend Clyatt’s Work Less, Live More. The advice is solid, he cites his sources, and he points readers to additional material. Of course, you can also find useful information on the internet:
- The Simple Living discussion forums are not geared toward early retirement, but many of the participants are pursuing its close cousin, financial independence. (FIRE is a common acronym for “financial independence/retire early”.)
- Bob Clyatt has a web site that includes a list of financial independence and early retirement resources.
- Tim Ferriss’ blog is targeted at young adults who are looking to pursue non-traditional careers. He’s all about designing a lifestyle that suits your goals.
- Perhaps the best online resource is the Early Retirement Forum. There’s a wealth of information here. If you’re at all interested in the subject, put it on your list of monthly reads.
I’m still in the early stages of researching early retirement and financial independence. (Long-term goals never seemed attainable until I dug myself out of debt.) The best I can offer Christine are these lists of books and links. My hope is that you, the readers, can give her more.
Are you further along the road to getting rich slowly? Do you have practical advice? What have you learned? How much money does a person really need in retirement? What about health insurance? What should Christine and her husband consider as they contemplate this decision?
Please note that while I’ve steered my response toward early retirement, Christine is really asking about retirement in general.


At 42, I don’t know that I personally have a lot of information to offer, other than to be sure and weigh everything in light of:
Social Security–you get more at 65 than at 62
Medicare–how will they handle her insurance when he’s on Medicare in 3 years? An active lifestyle carries additional health risks the older you get.
Long term care insurance
I gotta say I”M impressed. Hiking in Argentina and Europe?
Cheers for this, JD. although I disagree that (health issues aside) this only affects older folk; I’m 33 and in exactly the same position facing the same question- your links will be invaluable, and I’ll be keen to hear what others say.
OTH, I’m racing home tonight to see a Money Programme on people who start new business post-retirement (including a ‘oldtrepeneur’ who runs a garden centre at the age of 100). The point seems to be that the whole idea of retirement needs to be re-thought given how long we remain healthy today.
I would suggest perusing reading Ben Stein’s articles on retirement. He is mostly on point and I think it’s a weekly schedule he’s on over at Yahoo! Fianance.
DH and I are about 15 years younger than Christine, but with the same age difference between us and similar thoughts. We have 2 young children to raise and push out into the world before we can fully stop working and hike through Europe without them.
However, we’re working and saving our way to being able to choose to semi-retire from high-paying corporate jobs with benefits. We are establishing and considering other kinds of income-producing situations. Medical insurance is always a concern.
I’ll be interested in hearing about more sources of information about how to get where we want to go.
A good post on an important topic.
I look forward to learning something from some older people considering retirement.
If there’s enough interest, I’ll review one or two of these books here at GRS. So far I’ve refrained because I thought there might not be enough interest. But a couple are quite good.
[...] Warren Buffet. http://blog.canadian-dream-free-at-45.com/?p=350 - I see myself in this category. http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/02/08/ask-the-readers-quality-early-retirement-resources/ - Resources on Early Retirement http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/ - Early Retirement Forum. [...]
Greetings & Introduction…
“Groan … not another personal finance blog.”If all I did was repeat “spend less than you earn” advice, this website would have little value since there are plenty of good blogs (e.g., Get Rich Slowly or The Simple Dollar) that……
CNN has a related article today on how the economic recession and the related downturn in stock values is hurting retirees whose portfolios are losing value. They say the average income for those 65 and older is just over $16,000 per year. It really emphasizes the importance of getting out of debt, saving and investing as early as possible, and making positive economic lifestyle decisions to last the long-term.
See article at http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/02/08/retiree.spending.ap/index.html
I been reading the Early Retirement Forum for a couple of years now and I have to say the advice there is fantastic. It applies equally well to early retirement and regular retirement. Check out the FAQ sections for the most common questions and issues that people face like health insurance.
The board is mostly North American based, but there are a few international readers in different locations.
I wish I could offer more resources to US readers, but most of mine are Canadian based. (For those Canadians interested check out my blog and hit the ‘book review’ catagory).
Best of luck,
Tim
If you are looking for quality resources about planning for retirement, I would suggest going to msnmoney.com and click on retirement, (scroll down a little; it’s to the left), and it’ll get you into their Retirement Decision Center which will answer all your questions.
You asked what you will do with the rest of your lives? All the seniors I know are so busy they often ask, “how did I have time to work?” There are so many physical fitness classes offered through rec. centers, Y, like strength training, jazzercise, yoga, pilates, swim classes, and classes at community colleges, like photography, computers, cooking, art. There are lots of community-related volunteer organizations too, and what really is the icing on the cake, if you are blessed to have them, will be your grandchildren! Spending as much time with them as you are able is just the best part about being in your 50’s, 60’s and older (my opinion).
Sometimes you have to balance “Saving for later” and “Doing it now.”
My grandparents made *ALL* their plans for when they retired. Then my grandmother died at 62. They were going to move up north to be closer to us. They were going to travel. They never got to do any of that.
It is absolutely worthwhile to want to save and plan for retirement. However, it’s also worthwhile to treat yourself sometimes in a responsible fashion. Save up money for that trip to Alaska & look for good deals. My parents (not wanting to make the same mistake my grandparents did), have a stable retirement and have gone to Alaska and Europe. My father retired early, but, picked up a part-time job to keep himself busy and to have a little extra income.
You only live once, and, you never know how long it will be. Balance enjoying life now with planning for later.
Here is a book which may provide some useful help:
How To Retire Happy by Stan Hinden.
When should we retire? This is a hard one. I think you need to figure out what you’re going to be doing first, so you’ll have a better guess at how much money you will need.
The hard factor though is knowing about your health. I knew someone who retired and immediately her husband got really sick. She was so happy she was able to be home to take care of him. Fortunately he recovered and they are still getting to do their more fun plans!
How do we balance our age difference? At this point it may make more sense to measure your ages backwards: how many years do you each have left? Women tend to live longer, people in families where everyone lives long tend to live longer. People with healthy habits tend to live longer. There are online calculators to help you guess your expected life span. You might get a better idea of how big your difference really is after using these.
As to how to balance the difference, I have no idea. Maybe do more of the things the older person likes more and the things the younger person really only wants to do with the older person first. But also realize that either person could die first, and be ready either way.
What will we do with the rest of our lives? Do you have any other hobbies besides traveling? Have there been things you wished you could do but didn’t have time for? Or have you totally blocked those things from your minds? You might want to think about adding activities in several different spheres of your life: family, friends, church and other spiritual activities, volunteer work, fun part-time work, sports and other physical stuff like walking or dancing, hobbies and creative things like painting and gardening, intellectual things like reading and puzzle solving, and projects that let you achieve something.
Before retirement, you could start trying these things. I recommend checking out library books, taking informal classes, and trying new things with your friends.
And of course you might want to focus on the cheaper activities so that you can retire earlier!
For insurance, it seems like a good idea to get catastrophic insurance, which is affordable and keeps you from going bankrupt if something really expensive happens. Look into those health savings accounts and see if you can use them to save takes while saving for medical expenses. Maybe a small side business will qualify you to use these–I haven’t paid much attention. Than also save a lot of money to pay for medical expenses and do bargain with your medical providers. Sometimes they are so happy to receive a payment right away that they are willing to trim down the amount quite a bit.
For resources, the best I know about is The Retire Early Homepage. I also like Philip Greenspun’s Retirement page. I also really like the newish blog Early Retirement Extreme, although he does focus mostly on what you already know.
My Grandfather had a similar choice to make and decided to retire earlier with less money. Good choice because he enjoyed about 7 years of good health and retirement activities then suffered a stroke which eventually led to his death.
My in-laws had a similar story. My father-in-law could have retired but chose to work until 65. Then my mother-in-law died (very quickly) after a fight with cancer. He died a few years later from cancer, so the waiting and working cut short any retirement they might have had.
I say retire ASAP. As a teacher, you could always substitute if you get bored and there’s demand for librarians, work part-time if you want to. If you like active recreation, enjoy them while you have the health. I guarantee you’ll never say “boy I wish I’d hiked less and worked more, I’ve seen too much great outdoors”. Life is for the living I say.
My dad is planning to retire in the next couple of years at age 55. He has read this book so far:
http://www.amazon.com/Street-Journal-Complete-Retirement-Guidebook/dp/0307350991/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202483970&sr=8-1
He says it’s pretty basic, but could provide a good foundation as to what to plan for in retirement.
Good luck!
It sounds to me like they are certainly on the right track. And with one of them being a librarian (as am I) I know they can find the right resources on the web to help
From personal experience, the husband is about the same age as my parents. My father was a teacher and my mother an occupation therapist asst. Neither made a lot of money, but my father has a state pention (after retiring early at 59). Both parents worked for the State long enough to qualify for free medical insurace after 60 (is that a great deal or what? - this is NC if you are wondering).
Anyway, both still work on a part-time basis. My mother does OT jobs about 4 days a week - and always on weekends and holidays for time and a half. And my father is an interpreter for the deaf and also works on a part-time basis - again he loves weekends and holidays for time and a half. I guess when you hit 60 yrs old, Saturday feels like any other day
So my advice to you is work at your current job to get the necessary retirment benefits. If you love your job stay longer for the steady income. Or else retire and find another more flexible job that still helps provide extra income and allows you the freedom of travel you want.
The hard part is the difference in the ages. Christine does want to be able to travel with her husband before he is too old, but at the same time doesn’t want to risk running out of money because she retired too soon. It’s a tricky situation. But if you can find something flexible to do after you retire it may help solve the problem. Good luck
I’ve read this site by Scott Burns from top to bottom. He has new articles about retirement and savings coming out twice weekly. He also answers personal questions in the forum section.
http://assetbuilder.com/blogs/
There’s enough content on this site for a year of reading.
So I have always been curious what the difference between retire early and financial independence.
I would think they would be one and the same wouldn’t they?
Ron–The info you cite re: SS is not as black and white as it seems. I have heard Suze Orman state many times that you should always draw SS as soon as possible UNLESS you are still working (and benefits are, therefore, reduced), there are other mitigating circumstances, etc. Here’s a link to an article looking at all the possibilities. It’s outdated so figures have most certainly changed, but it’s the only thing applicable that I could find quickly and it paints the different scenarios well.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/retirement/2005-11-09-social-security-usat_x.htm
Here’s one scenario from the article that shows why drawing SS as early as possible if you are elgible for full benefits makes sense.
“Suppose you’re eligible for full benefits at 67, and reduced benefits at 62. If your retire at 62, you get $700 a month, or $8,400 a year. Full benefits at 70: $1,000 a month, or $12,000 a year.
If you take the reduced payment at 62, you’ll collect $8,400 a year for five years. That would give you a big head start over someone who starts taking payments at 67.
In fact, the person who starts at 67 would have to live to 78 before earning more in benefits than the person who starts at 62.”
Food for thought,
Shirley
A topic I’ve often worried about! I would be thrilled to see some early retirement book reviews and more in-depth information.
I’ve got the 401k and Roth IRA stuff down pat, but what do I do until I turn 59 1/2?
I noticed that a few people here still think that retirement = old. That’s the point of early and semi-retirement — you can do it younger, as soon as you’re FI, or close. You can choose to wander the country in an RV, volunteer for a charitable organization, start a small business, contract 6 months of the year and play the other 6 months, etc.
And FI doesn’t always equal retirement, unfortunately. FI means that you can live as you want to based on your investment income for as long as you want to. Usually, that means living on 3-4% of your principal (hopefully the after-tax earnings and interest). DH and I would have to accumulate about $1-1.25M to be FI right now (no SS) with our current lifestyle. There are a lot of retirees who are living on SS and not much else — they can survive, but they don’t get to live as they would like.
By the way, if you retire, you can start drawing down your IRAs and 401(k)s at any age — you have to pull out a certain amount every year based on your estimated life expectancy. You can withdraw the principal out of a Roth at any time — it’s the earnings that might be subject to taxes and penalties unless you know what you’re doing.
Well, she brings up a concern about health insurance because assuming they are both insurable, premiums in their 60’s could easily be twice what they would be in their 40’s. Some folks who think about early retirement don’t think about the cost of getting sick.
Something I didn’t mention in my previous article about insurance on here is that my wife is uninsurable for health insurance because of on going epilepsy. She also happens to be a teacher. Part of our retirement plan is for her to retire from the state. In NC, the state pays health care costs for its retirees beyond employment. This may be different in other states.
Other than that, the only other option is to keep her on group coverage until she qualifies for Medicare. As long as you sign up for Medicare and a Medicare supplement when you are first eligible, you cannot be turned down or rated up.
For Christine and her husband, I would try to lean away from individual coverage if possible because if you do not have a guaranteed renewable health policy, you could be dropped from the plan if you have a large claim. Even if it is guaranteed renewable, the renewal rate could be astronomical. The protections that group coverage offers an individual are huge because of COBRA.
If you’re still stumped, I would recommend talking with a fee-only financial planner who is used to dealing with these issues. They can also talk to you about the appropriateness of IRC 72t and 72q that TosaJen alluded to (early withdrawal).
Good luck.
To add to my comment earlier, there’s also a recent study done by the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) that shows that most people are not saving for retirement. It’s very interesting, and scary, how many people are ignoring the inevitable.
To have money in retirement focus on these five points:
1. have a plan to get out of debt
2. plan your Social Security
3. plan your retirement savings
4. have a plan for health insurance
5. plan on working
Those points are an excerpt from “Financial Freedom 101″ available at:
http://www.prosperingyou.com/catalog/item/5382103/5344431.htm.
The book expounds on the five items and how they may apply to your situation.
The FIREcalc tool (found via Early Retirement Forum) is great! I strongly recommend everyone check it out. FIREcalc
I’m confused about the dichotemy in the writer’s comments. If you want to take those long kayak trips while you’re in good health, why not do it now? You don’t need vacation saved up if you have enough cash to cover the trip, just make it “leave without pay” and go. If your companies are so inflexible that they would rather fire you than let you go on a great trip and come back to work, then it’s time to walk. Take the trip, then find another place that values you more or has more flexible scheduling options, as others have mentioned.
If you’ve saved and done things right so far, then you really can have it all.
My wife is 4 years older than me, but my salary is about 4x her pay. Our current planning is for her to work until she gets the maximum SS (67 now, I believe?), while I would retire at the same time (age 63) and take a reduced payout. As we get closer, we’ll run the numbers and look at our various savings and adjust as neccessary. We figure that we probably don’t want to have one of us (her)sitting around at home while the other (me) still has to go to work every day. Right now, we don’t have any health issues, but should any crop up, that will obviously change our plans.
If I were Christine I’d be talking to a well qualified financial planner — note planner not adviser. The difference is a planner’s not going to sell you anything – no stocks, not funds, no nothing that they’ll earn a commission on, rather you pay a fee to them. Granted I’m not ready for retirement but I’ve seen one and had a wonderful experience, we talked more than stocks, we talked amounts to save using different therories, insurance to carry, etc she ended up saving me a ton when it came to insurances. I found mine through recommendations and confirmed it on the Certified Financial Planner Board http://www.cfp.net/search/
An excellent book on the subject of retirement (that goes into great detail to answer the question of “what to do when you aren’t working” is “The Joy of Not Working” by Ernie Zelinski. The book is Canadian, and as such the financial issues focus on what applies here, but the discussion of “what you’re going to do” is applicable anywhere.
The book has a web site at http://www.thejoyofnotworking.com.
I’m 89. I started out with as much medical coverage as I could find at 62, after my husband’s death.(I had never had coverage). Due to several medicated ailments most coverage offered was limited. I found a good policy and company ,covering many in my residential area. My lawyer and I thought I could afford to cancel older more limited coverage, so I dropped those. Guess What-9 months later that Insurance company cancelled all the policies written in that area. So I had only Medicare. Many don’t understand that Medicare coverage at best leaves one liable for as much as 40% of the remaining fees. We learn the hard way.
SO, my advice to Christine is to start finding as much health insurance as possible. Eventually I joined a group which negotiated group prices.
Even though the premiums hurt, set aside all you can. Future monthly payments will increase, so this is a lifetime project in an inflationary period.
At your ages anything can- and does - happen–for example my friend, 67,an expert skier, just broke 4 ribs in seven places while skiing down an easy slope( he hit a submerged rock). Medicare does not begin to cover his expenses for the complications developing while recuperating.
One thing I’ve been hearing from alot of retires is they worked too long and saved too much. I have no interest in working any longer than I have to, but then I dont’ have to worry about healthcare.
A “toned-down, practical version of The 4-Hour Workweek” is *exactly* what I have been looking for. I’m too young (and have too little invested) to fully retire, but I definitely want to quit the rat race within a few years. Semi-retirement sounds like exactly what I’ve been envisioning. Thanks for the recommendation; I can’t wait to read the book and workbook when they get here.
Retired in 1986 at 49 years old. Had good medical and small pension. Had to take part time jobs to make ends meet. Sold our house and with the equity we built a new home. Now we were debt free. Had to take social security at 62 and pension was cut just about in half, but was still a raise. IRA’s had just came out a few years before I retired and was rather stupid for not starting one then. Never invested in stocks as I was one big chicken,Put my money in CD’s not much at all by todays standards. Wife and I are doing very well, but poor by some peoples view. I guess what I am trying to say is get out as soon as possible. After the sixties and seventies every day in good health is a blessing. Best of luck to everyone and hope you enjoy life as much we do.
Thanks to J.D. for posting my question and to all of you for the thoughtful comments and ideas. From the older readers I’m hearing what I expected - that health insurance/care can be expensive on the open market and I should do my best to hang onto employer health insurance as long as possible. My husband is already planning to work at least until he is in COBRA distance of Medicare.
We actually have begun phasing back on work. My husband no longer coaches or works summer school. I’ve cut back to fewer hours than full time, though that means I pay the full cost of my employer’s group health insurance plan. and we do go on some fun trips now - just that we sometimes find ourselves hiking the Grand Canyon in July when it would be more fun in October (not possible for a teacher).
I’ll be checking into Health Savings Accounts and some of the other suggestions and running some numbers to see what seems reasonable. Thanks for the suggestions of books to read and forums and web sites.
If you can swing the finances, retire as early as possible, no one knows what the future holds for us healthwise.
If you have things you want to do, do not wait any longer. Retire and follow your dreams.
My favorite book on early retirement is:
How to Retire in Your 40s or 50s Without Being Rich
by Larry A. Ferstenou
American Book Business Press
2002
A classic with timeless advice would be:
How to Retire Early and Live Well With Less Than a Million Dollars
By Gillette Edmunds
2000
(I reviewed these in my blog through the Dollar Stretcher website.)
I also love Ernie Zelinsky’s books–which a previous poster mentioned–they’re funny and original!
I’m 46 and consider myself semi-retired; I work part-time and have flexible hours. I haven’t faced the health insurance problem, though, as my husband is still employed full-time. He’s happy with his job because as a professor he also has a flexible schedule and control over what he does.
I decided around 1996 to get out of full-time employment and then looked around to see how I could manage it. I got an advanced degree that doubled my salary and then went down to part-time and started learning how to live frugally and took control of our finances until we had no debt besides a small mortgage. I still don’t like having even a mortgage but it will be gone soon, I hope!
I’ve been in the financial services industry for over 10 years; in addition to healthcare expenses, two other areas that are frequently overlooked & not planned for are inflation and taxes.
Both of these issues/challenges - if not accounted for - will erode your retirement “nest egg” faster than you can say, “do you want fries with that?”
What I utilize with my clients is a planning/model called “Income For Life” - an investment strategy with the objective of providing inflation-adjusted income for life.
You can check it out for free at: http://www.smude.com - click on: “Worried about outliving your money?”
Hope this helps.
Chris
I second the Retire Early Home Page. It has a great set of calculators. Pair it with FireCalc at the Early Retirement Forums and you have a great set of tools at your disposal.
You may find http://my-wealth-builder.blogspot.com/ of interest. The author recently retired in his 40s, and writes extensively about how he carefully planned and actively manages his savings to ensure that he will not come up short later in life.
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