It really works, you learn, she will learn, you will see if she is serious about you and the relainship???

I know I am most likely older than anybody writing here, so I think I can safely say that I know where I am coming from. I’d give the person a chance and a certain amount of time to get their act together. If they can’t, forget them. Do it before you have a bunch of kids to support and raise.

Believe me, it gets harder, not better, as far as I can see, 90% of the time. In case you don’t know, your best efforts at birth control can fail abysmally.

I think it’s very possible for her to change, especially with someone as sensible as you to work with, DannyBoy. It is painfully true that some people just don’t change. I’m sorry to say that Hydes Like Us and I had similar stories and similar problems, and that, in the end, it was a large part of what cost my husband our marriage. I married very young; I’d met him when I was a teenager and married when I was just out of my teens. The kicker is that he’s about twenty years OLDER than I am, and NOT a money manager, not a saver. I was a kid who didn’t know much – scratch that, I didn’t know ANYTHING – doing the best I could, with a husband who wanted toys, and changed his mind weekly about the toys he wanted most. I broke my 401K three times to get us out of debt, and after years of working hard, currently have NOTHING to show for it. He, on the other hand, was spiteful about the house I gave him – yes, the house that I gave him, bought and paid for without a penny of his – and he was bitchy because the house … needed some work. It was good enough to live in when I was paying for everything, but apparently I should have given him a better house. (I was well-trained at that point to think I was responsible for taking care of him, which is why I gave him the house. And the car. Which I was still paying off at the time.) He wasn’t interested in saving for the future; he had a wife who was 20 years younger than he was, who has taking care of him, and by the time I was ready to retire, he’d probably be dead, so why should he worry about whether there was anything for ME to retire on?

So it depends on the underlying causes prompting DannyBoy’s girlfriend’s attitude. Is she selfish and indifferent? Or is she afraid of growing old, and is that what she associates with “retirement”? I know I’d be in a better position today if my partner had been more like DannyBoy. If he can convince her that what’s being saved for is their FREEDOM together, rather than a doddering old age, she may look at it in an entirely different light. If she can see the value of being able to spend their time as they want in their 40s onward because of wise choices made now, there’s considerable hope for their relationship. If she’s otherwise irresponsible – late payments, bad credit, irresponsible driving, etc., as posted above (reflecting the “we could die TOMORROW!” attitude) – the relationship is better as a friendship, nothing more — and NO shared debts!

I’d figure out a vacation you _are_ willing to go on, however large or small that is – when you are entirely honest with yourself, then ask her to plan the trip in its entirety – including all of the budgeting. When she has all the planning completed, review it, and only after you’ve approved it – tell her you’ll be happy to go when he has half the money for the trip which she has just budgeted.

If she grumbles I’d either go to counseling or leave her. These kinds of problems only get worse, it’s probably the biggest cause for divorce, and you’ve probably noticed that there is absolutely no way you can win this argument. If you’re too lacking in vision, imagination, or aren’t adventurous enough for her maybe she’d be happier with more of a vagabond free-spirit type.

If you’re really attached to her you might consider reading ‘The Four Hour Workweek’ and seeing if you can work while you travel. Not many people can, but it might be an option for you.

Good Luck Bro!

I’m in the same situation… except I’m 26 and she’s 23, and we live together. Every week I get lectured about how we’re not having as much fun as we could be, and we’ve never been to India, and there’s no time to travel if you have a 9 to 5 job. I’ve been leaving newspapers and magazines around the house open on stories about economic recession, job loss, misery indexes, inflation– to see if they will act as subliminal messages, and impact her psyche. I try talking about it. She thinks I’m paranoid, or old. I also get the “what if we die tomorrow” answer.

We’re going to have separate accounts plus a joint account. A certain percentage of each of our salaries goes automatically into the joint account for shared expenses (we’ll have to make a budget to work out what percentage), and another percentage goes into joint savings for a house deposit, retirement, emergencies or kids’ education. The remaining disposable income stays in our separate accounts, and we can choose to spend it on whatever we like or save it separately. That way I can’t complain if what he’s spending is not my money, and vice-versa (it works because we’re both graduating as professionals and will make a similar amount of money, but if one spouse makes significantly more than the other a different compromise might be needed). We may have to re-think in the (distant! distant!) future when I’m on maternity leave. I guess while he’s earning all the money he’ll have more say in how the disposable portion gets spent.

I don’t think it’s necessary or appropriate to argue about money while you’re just dating, but if you’re thinking of committing to one another you will need to reach consensus. With as differing views as yours, I’d recommend getting a marriage or money counsellor to act as a mediator. But until that time, all you can do is scold, and all she can do is try to loosen you up a bit.

As their relationship matures, and their life plans are discussed, their are other issues that will come up long before retirement:

Whether or not she beleives that she will live long enough to retire in 40 to 50 years, I’d bet she expects to have children in the less far off future, within 10 years or so, and she may hope to stay home with them for some period of time. This is, in essence, a mini-retirement. Savings in hand will make it more pleasant, and can make up for the earnings hole of those few years. Having saved beforehand means you can buy a large enough house and vehicle beforehand, means you can choose what nifty items you want, rather than be subject to the whims and preferences of family gifts and hand me downs*. Means you can NOT WORK for 1, 2, 5 years.

And, following that realization should be the one that, if she has children and does not live to retirement age, would she want savings and investments for the childrens sake?

*hopefully, by the time the issue is pertinent, she will have learned to appreciate the savings to be found in the whims of family gifts and hand me downs. But cross that bridge later!

On the one hand people are saying something that sounds quite reasonable, but is in real life almost impossible to do : keep your finances separate. I’ve never seen this work when the male made more money, only when the female did. Look around – women are very pragmatic and almost always marry up. Men are programmed to treat women as equals except when it comes to money. So while I’m sure people mean well when they say this, I seriously doubt you will be able to do it. But I could be wrong. IF you can keep your finances separate then I’d agree that you can see where the relationship will go. She might be lots of fun and a good complement for you, you two might even find yourselves moving closer to one another’s viewpoint.

IF that doesn’t happen, and if you guys decide you want to get married, I would DEFINITELY go to marriage enounter counseling (whatever they call it) where you meet with someone who asks you questions about tough real issues and how you both will handle them when, not if, they come up. I’ve seen cases where people come away from the counseling completely sure they had found ‘the one’ to marry, and cases where people were extremely relieved knowing that they had just narrowly avoided making the biggest mistake of their life.

You are right to be concerned about this issue, good for you for recognizing it and looking for more information. If you keep following your gut and don’t compromise what you truly believe in I think you’ll do fine.

Best,
Mike

When I was 19 I also had a 23 year old GF. We had completely different beliefs on just about everything. It went a lot further than differing future time orientations. We were really together for other reasons, and I’ll let you imagine what those were.

However, at the time I really thought we would get married and things would work out. At some point I never saw any other possibility.

In retrospect I should have known things would not end well. Perhaps now I am a bit cynical and I cannot imagine ANY young relationship with such disagreements endup working out. I hate to say it, but these situations are usually doomed to the “starter relationship” pile.

FWIW I am now married. I disagree with my wife about some of the same things. But I guess there is just an understanding and a level of maturity and responsibility at this stage where we are able to deal with differences and not really have it affect us. It has probably helped that I have grown to be a better listener and more open minded.

It might be too early to worry about these things ( I would also say Dude, dont get married until you are at least 50..okay maybe 25)and things might just work out naturally. It might become an issue or might not. In the meantime keep separate finances and I guess come to an understanding and decide whether to accept your differences.

You should keep your finances
separate but, this doesn’t prevent
trouble from happening. Odds are
she’ll get herself into financial
trouble and talk you into bailing
her out of it. So, you still
loose.

To help prevent that, you need to
make sure she never knows how much
you make or how much you have
saved. NEVER. At least not until
she changes her attitude toward
finances.

[...] Get Rich Slowly asks his readers what we can do if our girlfriends isn’t serious about money! [...]

[...] totally financially irresponsible, and my answer boiled down to: don’t. But what about a partner who just doesn’t agree with you about budgeting and saving? This person gets that bills need to be paid on time, but thinks when you get a windfall, you [...]

I, on the other hand, came from safe middle class family and have operated since birth under the positive guise that we can better ourselves if we try hard and get a proper education, and it’s mostly come true.

My hope, and I’d like to think it will work out, is that she will gain hope for the future with me and see the value in savings and education. The things that make me feel this way are that (in no particular order)
1. she has no money, but she doesn’t have negative money, so that’s good.
2. i can be a positive and safe influence in her life
3. I can help her fill out loan apps to get her more education, which will lead to a better job.
4. she doesn’t engage in dangerous activites that i’ll have to get her to drop (ie no drug use, no hobbies that when caught involve jail time, etc)
5. I love her very much, so i think she’s worth the effort.
6. she is gainfully employed and spends every cent she makes (mostly on things she doesn’t need), but mostly lives within her means.

So with all these factors combined, i think it’s a fair bet. if any of those factors weren’t working out in my favor, then maybe i’d reconsider. would it be easier (and fiscally advantageous) for me to marry within my class? Yes, but we don’t really get to choose who we are attracted to, do we?!

Anyways and back to the point, i’d say build out your list of the reasons you can help your SO with their less than fiscally sound ways, and then do your best to help them.

This sounds trivially obvious but it’s actually deep and dangerous territory. Our spending habits are hugely linked to parental example. What else is? A relationship, and how we interact with our partners.

It’s for this reason I think that money worries and relationship worries so often intersect (okay, and because not having money isn’t much fun!).

What should DannyBoy do? Talk – and listen. Don’t expect changes for a good while, and don’t preach.

I like to used examples like credit card debt with my gf. I tell her the interest you pay is probably close to about 2-3 weeks working for someone else. That is a one or two of nice jeans or shoes that you giving away every year. And she picks up on these things. After 2 years, her credit card debt is nearly gone and now she is saving,she may not be investing but least she is not creating debt.

My girl is changing to be more money conscious but still she have her splurges but she is changing. Patience, cant happen overnight, all about nurturing and influencing.

Norm

It takes people a while. I did not start thinking about things like retirement until this year, now that I actually have money, and I’m 26. My little sister is just about 22, dropped out of college, and only just now is mature enough to land a decent job where she can support herself.

Good luck.

That is a lousy attitude to have. If that’s the case, why do anything? Why cross the street? You could be hit by a car. Why practice any sport/skill? You could die tomorrow and that time would be wasted.

What you need to do, is have her read a book like the Automatic Millionaire that shows what saving and compound interest can do.

Are you serious? How do you figure that? What investment vehicles would you be using?

This is a much bigger problem, I think. There are a number of ways to work around different philosophies about money, the simplest being to keep your finances separate.

There’s not much you can do except end the relationship if you’re frugal and she expects expensive, non-utilitarian presents on major holidays. She’ll feel you don’t care about her if you don’t spend enough, and you’ll feel you’re squandering money if you do. There is no win-win scenario.

I had a friend who broke up with her boyfriend because he refused to buy her a diamond for their one-year anniversary. He was a janitor and she worked at a hotel, so this was far from a trivial request. And furthermore, she had no intention of spending a similar amount on him. I just had to shake my head when she was telling me.

Put her out of your mind for a while and go some place quiet without distractions.

Think about the kind of woman you would like as your future wife and mother of your children. Write down every quality that comes to mind that you would like your future wife to have – values, personality, experiences, mindset, etc.

Then ask yourself, does your current girlfriend fit this picture?

Also, it’s best not to get too attached, only to have to deal with big problems (money, politics, religion) later on.

Retirement is simply financial freedom, or being able to live without having to work, either because you can’t work or because you don’t want to.

I think that may be one thing that is obstructing her from thinking reasonably about her future. It may be indicative of other immature traits, or maybe just a radical world view, but I wouldn’t want to speculate too much without knowing her. The relationship may work, but maybe not.

I then ask “What if you DO make it to retirement?”