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Consumer debt is bad. Buying lots of Stuff on credit cards is a sure path to financial woe. But while some people argue that all debt is bad, most experts agree that certain debts are acceptable (good, even). The two most common examples are mortgage debt and college loans. The average person cannot afford to pay for either of these outright; borrowing money allows one to invest in her future.
So what happens if you’ve always avoided debt, and suddenly one of these expenses rears its head? Amanda wants to know:
My husband and I are newlyweds. He’s starting dental school this fall. Four years at $50,000 per year is frightening for me — I have never been in debt at all! I know it’s a good debt (educational as opposed to credit cards), and I am absolutely 110% behind my husband; this is his dream. I am also comfortable being the breadwinner for at least the next four years.
We’ve built a nice emergency fund, and we’ve been saving for our retirements. It’s just hard for me to wrap my head around $200,000 of debt, especially when we’ve been working so hard to save. How do you prepare for such a large debt? What ways are there to cope with it? What can we do to prepare?
When I shared this question with Kris, she had a great piece of advice: “They should start handing out candy to the kids they know.” But aside from consoling herself with her husband’s future job security, what can Amanda do? This is a great question, one that can be applied to a number of circumstances. What can you do to cope with the realities of a huge mortgage? Unexpected medical expenses?
It sounds as if Amanda and her husband have made some good first steps. An adequate emergency fund will help to protect them from additional debt. A commitment to a frugal lifestyle can also play a key role. But what else? Is there anything a person can do to mentally (and financially) prepare for enormous debt?
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March 7th, 2008 at 5:32 am
Wow, what a difficult situation. I would be just as concerned as Amanda.
If I were Amanda’s husband and it was possible, and I know it is because I did it myself, I would work part-time and invest that money into some type of money market or high yeild savings and let it grow.
After four years the money from the part-time job could then be used to pay toward the tuition debt. Obviously it would not cover it all, but after 4 years of savings it would be a nice chunk of change to use while he builds and gets his dental practice off the ground.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:54 am
I’m looking at $40k in debt after getting my dietetics license. I know that’s not as much but it’s a lot to me! I’ve been working little jobs here and there and selling stuff on eBay to pay off the interest before it accrues (unsubsidized loans).
March 7th, 2008 at 5:55 am
I think it would be prudent for Amanda and her husband to start planning a 5 or even 10 year repayment plan.
According to the American Dental Association, the average dentist made $185,000 in 2004. Now obviously this isn’t what Amanda’s husband will be making straight out of school, but it does give them a place to start for figuring out how long it will take to eliminate their debts.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:03 am
How about she enjoy the moment she’s presently in and breathe?
Maybe be happy that she and her husband are happy and healthy?
I know I will be flamed and beaten with a stone for this, but, it’s only money. It doesn’t make you a bad or a good person and if being a dentist is his heart’s desire, embrace the fact that he will find some career fulfillment. Most people never get that chance, $200k debt or not.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:09 am
I’m the sort of person that would hate this. I have security issues around money. What would make me feel better is working out a worst case scenario - like income contingent loans - in case he doesn’t start making a fortune for some reason.
I’d also look at the best case, and work out how quickly I could get out of debt, and what investing the (then paid off) debt repayments for 5 years would like like in retirement.
I like to know that the worst case is survivable, and the best case is pretty good.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:12 am
As someone who graduated from dental school in ‘04, I completely understand. Recently I purchased a practice, so in-addition to the 200K+ from school I have and another 300K+ from the practice. Just know that even with all that debit, I’m still on track to have it all paid off in about 15 years.
Once he’s out, take advantage of loan consolidation. It made a big difference in my interest rate. I’d also recommend putting away anything you can for retirement. Most starting dentist positions don’t have retirement benefits and you end up in a catch 22 of making too much and not being self employed.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Amanda,
Your husband should look into one of the Uniformed Services who are always screaming for good doctors and dentists. He would get his school paid for, have a fixed amount of years to repay, be an officer making good money and have no debt/school loans to repay. Afterwards, you two would be free and clear to continue on with your debt-free lives. I was in the Navy and we had excellent dentists (for the most part), but any of the services would be glad to have him I’m sure.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:13 am
My husband and I fell into a trap right at the end of his schooling — thinking that he would be graduating soon and it would all be taken care of. If they can continue to live like he’s in school full time after he’s graduated, they’ll pay off the loans much more quickly.
I guess I’m saying that they could try to avoid thinking that, as soon as he graduates, they can get a bigger house, take cruises, spend more on ____ (fill in the blank).
March 7th, 2008 at 6:14 am
Sophie, I’m not going to flame you, I think you are absolutely right. If they are committed to the expense then the best thing she can do is work on her mind-state and reframe the expense as opportunity. Since they’re committed to dental school there’s no sense in worrying about how it would be better if they didn’t have debt. Keep doing the same thing they’ve been doing, paying debt down as quickly as their income supports and saving through frugality. And as Rachel says above me, don’t fall into the trap of lifestyle inflation.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:20 am
I just graduated from veterinary school with 105k in debt. I love my job, I have placed myself in a position to make alot of money - it was worth every penny. I pay the minimum amount back ($500/m), using the extra money to invest or save ($1000/m). Not to mention I accepted the lowest paying job in my graduating class. My bank account is growing faster than my debt is declining - but student debt is tax deductable and I live comfortably. Even with debt, doors open for professionals - they are viewed as accountable and clients with potential. Even with 100K in debt, car and house loans have not been an issue.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:27 am
Don’t forget about disability insurance. When you graduate, you need to insure your husband’s ability to make money in dentistry in order to service his loans. An accident or chronic injury could set you back big time.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:28 am
I agree with Sophie. Try to enjoy it. When my wife and I got married (June ‘04) I was already in graduate school, making under $20k, with no health insurance etc. In August ‘04 my wife started Medical School and we too were staring at $200k in debt. We treated her loans as a paying job. So that once a month we went out for sushi and a movie without feeling guilty. Amanda’s husband will have enough to worry about when he’s studying the nervous system. We think about paying the loans back as a reduction in salary, not as having to pay money back. It’s a little disappointing to think that you won’t make as much as everyone else, but they are $200k in debt and you aren’t.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:44 am
Amanda,
I think what you are feeling is totally normal for someone in you and your husband’s position. My wife is a medical student, almost graduated, and I am the principal earner in our family for now. She will graduate with approx 170K in debt. We live a fairly frugal lifestyle and plan to do so for years to come, even after she begins to make the big bucks. If you can live well below what your W-2 says after your husband begins to work, then you can make a big dent in that debt.
Even though it seems like a lot of money, your husband has an excellent earning opportunity and a chance to do good all at once. Keep focusing on the positives and supporting your husband!
Best Wishes.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:46 am
I am about to graduate from law school ($60k a year for 3 years), and the debt is really hard to deal with. My plan worked pretty well, but coming down to the last stretch (I don’t start work until September) I’m starting to get really nervous about money all the time. Just try not to take the inevitable anxiety out on each other. Learn to meditate or go to therapy at the health center at his school.
I saved up enough to pay for one year before I started school. I earned enough to pay for one year over the summers between my years of school. I’ve had to borrow one year’s worth. I’m not in that bad of shape regarding debt, but the real problem is:
I’m almost 27 years old, and I’ve been scrimping, budgeting, and living poor since I went to college. After ten years of living cheap, I’m ready to be a grownup: to have furniture, to cook nice dinners, to buy clothes at the mall instead of Target and Goodwill.
I’m almost to the time where I can afford it (6 months to go) but I’ve spent more this year than I wanted because I’m tired of my student lifestyle.
Lastly, I do worry about the debt. It’s not going to be that hard to pay off at all because I have a good job lined up… I just worry. A lot. Unnecessarily. I’m about to start reading “How to Stop Worrying and Live your Life” by Dale Carnegie, so maybe that will help.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:50 am
Yes, back to school debt can be daunting. I’m about to go back to school for yet another degree, and it’s quite expensive. I’d look into any and all scholarships, as there are a ton of those out there that sit unclaimed every year
March 7th, 2008 at 7:10 am
Sophie’s answer is the key here … just accept this scenario, esp. since you have chosen it. As Sophie pointed out, present- moment living is key. It’s the labeling process of this situation and the judgmental attitude and all the future-thinking that causes you pain. Just *completely* accept this decision, and then direct the focus of your attention back into the present moment, back into your routine activities. This will give you a state of inner freedom and a taste of what meditation is all about.
Of course, it probably wouldn’t hurt for your dude to work part-time, either.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:11 am
My wife and I are in a similar situation. She has been in school for the past 4 years and will finish in May with 140K in school debt. We have lived off of my income alone and after she starts working, we will continue to live off of my income while the majority of her income will go solely to paying back school loans. It was really difficult the first 2 years but as your income increases and your budget does not, it will become easier.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:11 am
I definitely feel for them. It’s one thing to just be an average consumer and wake up one day in a world of debt, but to consciously enter into the situation after living frugally and debt-free must be a very hard thing to do.
I am absolutely in the “all debt is bad” camp, but I’m going to set that aside for this discussion. You are in a good starting position: debt free and aware of what you are getting in to. Scared, yes, as well you should be, but you are obviously thinking ahead about how to tackle this problem. Student loan repayment is usually not considered before the loan is taken out, so kudos to you!
In your position, I think there are several options. Most of it is going to hinge on Amanda’s willingness to “be the bread winner”. Since the best plan is to not enter into debt in the first place, we are going to do everything we can to offset the amount of debt required. You need to make every effort (and probably some hard choices) to live beneath Amanda’s income. Since you have no debts, this should be doable. Every penny that is not for food, shelter, minimal transportation, and other necessities needs to be set aside to help pay for school.
Also to that end, he needs to work while going to school. Will this be hard? Yes, but sacrifice is required to succeed. Even as a part-timer, he should be able to pull 10-20K a year. This could even help: the last time I attended school full time, I worked 3rd shift as a Security Guard. I made decent money for simple work, and I had plenty of time on the job to study and do homework.
Since you are already committed to living on Amanda’s income, everything he makes goes to offsetting school expense. And he needs to start right now. Every penny he can earn between now and this fall goes towards his expenses. Between this and working while going to school, you should be able to seriously cut the amount of debt you’ll incur in the first place. [On that note, I assume he's already been accepted: have you considered delaying entry for a year? If you started the plan now, he could work 2-3 jobs and save up a lot, maybe even enough to fully fund the first year. That would be a great head start!]
So set a goal: instead of just accepting that you are going to borrow $50K a year, do your darndest to only borrow half that. That will make the next step that much easier: pay off the balance as soon as possible.
The way you do that is by planning for Amanda to be the bread winner for 6 years, not 4. Those first two years that he is working, you stick to what you have been doing and all the money he makes (which should now be considerably more) goes to pay off whatever the remaining debt is.
Do not misunderstand me: this is NOT going to be easy. This is going to be 4-6 years of very little time together and most likely two very tired people. And an effort like this can generate anger, frustration, and resentment: in order to prevent this, your marriage MUST COME FIRST. However, if you work together, stay focussed and stay on the plan, you can succeed. And after six years of living this way, you will find little things like saving , budgeting, and planning have become second nature, which will only mean that you can become wildly successful when his practice starts making serious cash.
Your only other option is to give up now, accept the $200K in debt, and hope it works itself out later. As I’m sure you know, this is what everyone else does: and everyone else is broke. Personally, I don’t get the impression that you are like that.
Peace,
Joel
March 7th, 2008 at 7:19 am
The figure of 50K per year is way high, it should be under 20K per year even without any offsetting income by the husband.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Emily says:
I’m almost 27 years old, and I’ve been scrimping, budgeting, and living poor since I went to college. After ten years of living cheap, I’m ready to be a grownup: to have furniture, to cook nice dinners, to buy clothes at the mall instead of Target and Goodwill.
I’m almost to the time where I can afford it (6 months to go) but I’ve spent more this year than I wanted because I’m tired of my student lifestyle.
Lastly, I do worry about the debt. It’s not going to be that hard to pay off at all because I have a good job lined up… I just worry. A lot. Unnecessarily.
Emily,
First of all, congratulations on smart debt minimizing! You have done a great job (at least until this last year by your admission).
A couple of things: it would be a real shame to ruin all that hard work by spending a lot of money on a lifestyle you cannot yet afford. This is exactly why so many of us (yours truly in included) ended up in so much trouble. Let me tell you from experience: it just isn’t worth it. Live through the poor student lifestyle just a little while longer and the sky is the limit for you.
Second: you HAVE been living like a grown up! Being grown up does not mean shopping at all the right stores: it means being willing to sacrifice now for something better later. You are not living poor or cheap, you are living smart. I have to say though, that it sounds like you are regressing: you are getting a bad case of the “I Wants”, which can only lead to suffering later.
I really think that you are way ahead of your peers, and you are almost at the end! Hang in there, keep scrimping, saving, and living smart. The payoff is going to be phenomenal for you!
Peace,
Joel
March 7th, 2008 at 7:34 am
There are some great answers here. You folks never cease to amaze me. I think that the best answer so far is a combination of Sophie (#4) and Rachel May (#8). It’s important to live in the present, but it’s also important for Amanda and her husband to live sensibly. I’ve seen too many people spend a big raise or promotion, only to see that income go away…
March 7th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Doctors (and I would assume dentists) have high bankruptcy rates. They get into school and later into residency thinking they can ring up all this debt and they’ll pay it back when they make all this money as a doc. The realities are a little different. Sure, docs and dentists make a good living and in the long run come out way ahead, but in the short run debt is something that has to be looked at and conquered.
Sounds to me what they are doing (emergency fund) is a great idea. They need to get into a “poor” mentality, too. They are, in effect, broke and they need to act like it - drive old cars, clip coupons, buy groceries on sale, small home, etc.
When my husband and I were first married he was a resident and we lived in a modest home in a great neighborhood. I drove a 12 year old Nissan and he a 4 year old Civic. We kept those cars and the house all through residency. I worked through his residency, too. But some of our friends were buying giant SUVs and large homes all based on the credit of their future income.
When payday finally came and my husband joined a practice - I made plans to quit my job and pursue something else immediately. A lot of people asked me how I could afford to do it - I pointed to the small house and our old cars. I’m still amazed at how many of our physician friends carry expensive car debt and still have school debt eventhough they’ve been in practice for a few years. The point is they never acted “poor”. Now they really dont’ have as much as they think they do. But in our case we have tons of savings and investments because we acted with some financial restraint early on (BTW, we’re still in the small house, but we’ve replaced both cars - the Nissan was replaced at 16 yrs. old and the Civic was wrecked last year or we’d still be driving it!)
So my advice is to act “poor” - do whatever it takes to not increse that debt. And when he gets out keep working and get that debt paid off quickly - then move on to bigger and better things debt free!
March 7th, 2008 at 7:49 am
I think another type of debt that is “good debt” is medical debt. It’s something that is much less preventable than credit card debt, and is often unavoidable. And if Obama is president, one thing he wants to implement is much more leniency for people who become bankrupt for medical reasons.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:49 am
I honestly think you’ll be just fine. Anyone who is newlywed and not in debt is way ahead of the game already. Your long-term destination will be a result of your mindset, not your circumstances. I think someone with a huge school loan and a healthy mindset about money and finances will be way better off than someone with a small amount of consumer debt and a poor mindset, and I literally mean “poor” as in “poverty”, because unlike you, that is where they will end up.
KC, I couldn’t agree more with you, however I think what you are referring to as a “poor” mentality is actually what I call a rich mentality. The behavior you are describing is the behavior of those who are wealthy, living BELOW their means. If you look at the mentality of the poor as a whole, they do not behave like you describe. The rich behave just like you describe, hence I call it a rich mentality. Plus that just sounds so much more positive,
March 7th, 2008 at 7:51 am
I agree, it’s a lot of debt, but if her husband is doing what he wants in his life then you find a way to make it work. She can focus on how they’re going to pay it off and the timeline in which they can do so…that will at least provide a “light at the end of the tunnel” for her.
Other than that, consolidate if you can, set up the monthly payment, and don’t let it stress you out anymore.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Living in the moment (conservatively, I’d say) is the only way to keep yourself sane here. If you worry a lot about how you’re going to deal with the debt, you’ll just make yourself sick. Besides, there are a couple of mitigating factors & a couple of things you can do to help yourself feel better about the situation.
First, he probably will earn a great deal more than the rest of us do. This will enable you to pay more toward the loan than you can imagine doing now.
Second, over the passage of time, $200,000 will simply be worth a lot less. You will earn more relative to 2008 dollars and so will have more to pay it down. When my ex- and I were young, we thought $30,000 was more than we could pay for a house; $200,000 represented an entire lifetime of savings, an amount that would carry you comfortably through retirement. Now in my part of the world you can’t buy a livable shack for two hundred grand.
To make yourself feel more in control of the situation, one thing you could do is start setting aside a little of your own salary in a money market fund (one that is untainted by subprime loans–check out Vanguard’s prime money market fund, for example). Earmark this money to pay toward the loan after he finishes school. It can then do double-duty as an emergency fund and as future principal payments.
And find out if this is a community debt. If, God forfend, he should die before the debt is paid, will you as his spouse be liable for the remainder? Be certain he’s well insured. And since you’re the breadwinner, carry enough insurance on yourself to leave him enough to finish school should anything happen to you.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:01 am
I’m in a similar situation. Looking at going to grad school next year for a two year program. My dilemma is a little different: I’ve been accepted at one school and offered a fellowship, which means I’d only pay ~$15,000 a year and might be able to continue working my current job part time. However, my first choice school will cost ~35,000 a year, no fellowship, and also entail a move to NYC. Part of me wants to do the ’sensible’ thing and go with the cheaper option, but the other part thinks that if I’m going to do this, I might as well get the best, most prestigious education possible.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Admitting that both my husband and I went to grad/professional school and we both had school debt (husband had about $28,000 and I had about $30,000 - all paid off) I would be somewhat concerned about just accepting education debt as ‘good’ debt. I would want to know what the earning potential (the range, low and high number) for the particular dental profession and area and based on those numbers I would want a plan for paying it off. If husband is likely to earn $200,000 in the first year of dental practice that dental school likely makes financial sense. If you are taking on $200,000 in dental school debt and you’ll have to take on more debt to start a practice such that’s a different scenario.
I’m not saying its the wrong choice, I just would think it all the way through with both the low and high earning potential numbers. I would also want to think about what happens if husband decides not to finish dental school, what is plan B?
March 7th, 2008 at 8:34 am
About 12 years ago, we made the same decision for my husband to go back to school for his MBA. At the time, I had quit my job to stay home with our daughter, then about 18 months. We also had to sell our house, and move out of state to go to the school (program) that he really wanted to go to. I told him that while I will support him by being as thrifty as I could be, that he would have to borrow the money to go back. We used up a lot of the money that we had previously saved (we’ve always been pretty good with frugality and saving) plus about $60,000 in debt. He was able to get a campus job that was a smal cash flow help, and I took in children as a babysitter, plus worked a local food coop that netted us a free basket of veg and fruit every week, which I made use of every bit. Goodwill and other thrift stores were the only places we shopped. I was very conscious of every dollar that I spent, knowing that we would need to pay back $3 for each one spent.
Well, he graduated with honors, and has been very successfully employed for 10 years now, and makes 5 times what he did, pre grad school. We also live in a low cost of living area, so I’ve been able to stay home with my children while they are young. I’ve recently gone back to work part time.
One other thing…we worked hard to pay off the debt early…it took 6 years to pay off the debt, and that meant an extra $600 per month that we didn’t have to pay for 4 years…that was nice! In fact, now that I think about it, we would have just paid off the debt last month had we stayed on the bank’s plan.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:42 am
I agree completely with Sam (comment #28), especially about deciding on a Plan B. I remember being in my first year of law school and wanting to quit, but even by that point my loans were so high that I didn’t think I’d be able to pay them with whatever I could earn with just an English degree. So I stuck it out and graduated with six figures of debt.
I think Amanda and her husband are in a good place since they are already paying close attention to finances. If you devote your husband’s income to debt repayment instead of buying an expensive house and a fancy car, you can make the debt disappear in just a couple of years–and then buy the big house.
I also liked Joel’s suggestions about how to borrow less in the first place.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Does your dental school provide all students with kits, or will he be paying out-of-pocket for supplies? Even those dental schools that provide kits, well, you might use more of one item than another and you might need to replace a burr or a rasp… Setting aside some cash for those fiddly bits would be a good idea. There will also possibly be some expenses related to travel when he hits clinical, and coating ceremonies, et cetera. I’d suggest putting aside some funds for these ‘hidden’ costs seperate from your emergency money.
And maybe gather some mad money in for Midterm/Finals Week, where the stress gets high and he might need to escape the house for a coffee shop or something to do some studying. And then the after-Finals celebratory dinner/weekend escape!
March 7th, 2008 at 9:02 am
I’m in a similar situation myself right now, except I don’t have a significant other to lean on financially. I have never had any debt in my life but I decided to go back and start pharmacy school this coming fall. For the past few months I have been doing everything I can to save money and have been working extra jobs bring in as much as I can. Of course I will still have to borrow money to pay for school, which is a huge barrier to overcome mentally since I’ve always been anti-debt. But since I know it’s “good debt” I’ve just had to accept that it is a necessary part of getting myself where I want to be in life. During school I will be living like a poor college student again, and more importantly I plan to continue living that way for at least a few years after I graduate. This will allow me to get a jump start on paying off my student loans and on my way to a nice down payment on a house. I figure just holding off a few extra years on bumping up my standard of living will make a big difference in my financial situation down the road.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Save up and be prepared. Have a large emergency fund. If you’re planning a large purchase like school tuition or a house, live on as little as possible to save.
Don’t neglect necessities, obviously. The obvious ones are food, shelter, transportation and clothing, but the not-so-obvious is the proper insurance. Everyone needs auto, health, disability, life and homeowner/rental insurance.
Save money on school by doing general education classes at a local community college. Don’t go to some big-wig school for the prestige. In 5 years no one will care! Go to an in-state school and live cheap.
Amanda, once your husband is out of school and making that dentist salary, continue to live on your salary and use every penny he makes to attack the school loans. He can easily be making 150-200K in a couple years, which of course knocks out those 200K loans.
I’m glad he’s following his dream. That is the most important career decision anyone can make. Good luck to you both!
March 7th, 2008 at 9:17 am
There’s certainly a lot of good insight in these comments on the mechanics of how to work with the money you have, and to manage spending, and attack the loans.
From a big picture perspective, I think it’s always good to treat these huge debts as you would treat a business. You’ve been charged with managing this debt, so you need a business plan in place for how the debt will be recovered, and how you will live in the meantime.
Having a full understanding of what your financial picture looks like, that you both agree on, will take away a lot of the stress as you’ll both working towards a common goal. Best of luck to you both!!
March 7th, 2008 at 9:18 am
“Don’t forget about disability insurance.”
Right on.
I work for a DI company and we insure plenty of dentists. Their hands are so important to their work and his insurance will be cheaper the younger he gets that done.
By the way - trust me - dentists make money and have a sound future. I see everybody’s income on their tax forms.
If your husband enjoys dentristry, I’d say get behind him 110% and quit worrying. Be happy to be with a successful guy.
Carol G
March 7th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Be careful! Sometimes taking out big debt makes it seem like “funny money”: you’re already so far in the hole, it’s okay to borrow a little more for a nicer place or whatever.
Amanda, I’d recommend that you make a hard-and-fast rule that the student loan is TUITION ONLY, and that you two are living on your salary for everything else.
The other thing? Make like a breadwinner. I don’t know what your attitude about money and employment is, but I expect you two are looking at his salary as at dentist being your major source of income for most of your lives. That’s great, but that is then, and this is now. Don’t settle for a temporary or admin job–throw yourself into your job like you will be the breadwinner forever. If you’re not in a great career path, move. Get promoted. Ask for raises. You may quit in four years, but that’s no one’s business but your own. Meanwhile, if you’ve got to work, make it count and enjoy it.
You may have zero need for that last comment, but I’m always surprised at the number of women who are putting their husbands through school on maintenance jobs that they hate, instead of power jobs they enjoy. Maybe because they anticipate their careers being back-burnered as soon as the husband graduates? I don’t know.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:26 am
What a timely post!
I am thinking about going to grad school this fall at at UC school. I deferred last year because I wasn’t ready to go and because they didn’t offer me enough money to even consider it, but they offered me more this year. It’s a PhD program in political theory, which could go either towards a professorial job (not lucrative), or towards government/consulting (more lucrative) or non-profits (again not lucrative).
Here’s the situation:
The school costs about $11k annually including insurance, plus $14k as an out-of-state resident for the first year. They are offering me $27k in funding, as wages for TA’ing and the corresponding tuition reductions for that quarter.
Thus I will have $2k in ‘income’ my first year, and will need to make up the cost of living expenses with savings (approximately 60k in mutual funds) or take out a student loan.
The remaining 4-5 years of the program will be significantly cheaper than the first year, as I would be eligible for the in-state tuition, immediately saving approx $14k a year in expenses.
What is the best path for me now, financially? I am currently unemployed, due to being fired from my employer, a law firm, after complaining about not being paid the overtime due us. I am looking for another job, if I go to school I am considering going back into waitering to make quick money. That would also avoid any ethical quandries with accepting a position only to leave it in 5 months to relocate to California.
If I go to this program, would it be better to pay for my expenses with my savings? Then I wouldn’t have to pay any interest or fees, but would lose that earning potential over the next 5+ years and would pay capital gains tax (probably 5%). Or, should I take out some loans, work as a TA and during summers, leave my savings where they are, and pay off the loan quickly after I graduate with my (hopefully increased) savings?
Hope I explained this clearly.
Thanks for any advice or suggestions you might have!
March 7th, 2008 at 9:36 am
I got out of college with just under 20k in debt which is only 10% of the debt he will amass, but it still feels like a ton. Just take it one payment at a time and throw as much money as you can at it. Currently I’m paying nearly $1000/mo instead of the min payment of $167 (I’m still saving $1000/mo and putting $500/mo in retirement) and it’s really bringing down that interest accrual.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:44 am
I would first see if he can volunteer peace Corps or Public service to have a company pay he to go to school . Before I just plunk down 50K a year.
Depending on her income, she can pay at least half of it a year
March 7th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Wow, lots of good stuff here. I think it sounds like you’re in a good place, Amanda. You seem financially savvy enough to handle this. As long as you live on your income, stay frugal, etc, I think you should do fine. Maybe put together a debt-repayment plan for after he gets out of school. Then, if possible, keep working at your job, living the same and devote most of his earnings to debt repayment. After that, you’ll be free and clear and able to enjoy that dentist’s salary (reasonably anyway).
Sophie’s right, too, the present moment is a good one.
And you can always take Kris’s suggestion, too.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:57 am
i can appreciate the situation. i am a graduate student myself, and we have decided to send my husband back to college after 10 years of working, after a significant injury (and a denial for a disability insurance policy before that), and significant medical debt to accompany it.
did i tie in enough of the above mentioned subjects? do i win a prize?
seriously, you can NOT worry yourself for 4 years or however long it will take him to graduate. i panicked for a full 18 months over this medical debt that wiped our goals off the map- basically till we paid it off. it takes its toll on you mentally and physically. next round, when we lost our breadwinner income, i panicked for about a month. i had it down to a week when we decided he wouldn’t be going back to work in that field and would be going back to college. and my body thanks me. 2 straight years of panic would have done horrible things to me. the 18 months already was taking a toll on my own health, which was detrimental to my ability to care for my husband post-surgery and such.
we moved to a cheaper apartment and took a lot of steps to keep our expenses below my take-home monthly income. (i don’t bring home much, for the record.) now, i don’t worry. i know my income pays the bills. husband is getting a part time job so that we have a few extra bucks each month to stash away in case of emergency.
so we have to take out some loans to pay for school. that’s ok, we know we can’t pay it out of pocket and there is no other way. we’re not using it for living expenses, it’s for tuition and books. that’s all.
keep your common sense about you, it’s a very valuable asset right now. time and hard work will get you through. remember to keep working on your marriage too in all this- a neglected relationship grows very poorly.
best of luck, it can be done.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:02 am
For those of you encouraging working part-time, I think you have to be careful. I graduated from law school with a fair amount of debt, but I only was able to get the high-paying job I have because I had great grades. If grades are ultimately the driving factor to success, that needs to be the biggest focus for right now. In other school opportunities, it isn’t driven as much by grades as by connection, in that case a job might be a better option. But for now, I would recommend doing everything you can to make school a successful experience.
I’ve written about my experience in the forums before and delaying isn’t always an option. I would have never saved up enough money to pay for three years of school. But I’ve easily been able to pay off the debt and more afterwards. It was the best financial decision of my life.
In other words, school debt can be good debt or bad debt. Just make sure it’s the good kind If you’ve run the numbers ahead of time to make sure it is good debt. If you are convinced it is a good investment, be happy with the decision and relax knowing that it will pay off in the end.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:10 am
I would suggest buying disability insurance of some sort. I borrowed 80k for an art degree and work in the field but never thought of what the consequences would be had I had an accident and couldn’t pay the debt. I am all for supporting your partner but protect yourselves financially along the way.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I agree that trying to accept this upcoming debt as a useful means to reach a goal is the best idea. I am currently a professor at a medical center, and I don’t know a single one of our graduates who has had income worries after completing their study. Even when our students do fellowship work after graduation, which is low-paid, the NIH loan repayment plans ($35k in debt reduction annually) boost their implied income. If you’re basically frugal and smart about not ramping up your lifestyle, you will be fine.
However, I would urge you to be cautious about the suggestions to do part-time work. There are times in the health professions when this makes sense, and times when part-time work will negatively affect your studies. There are many volunteer opportunities in medicine available while you’re a student that can improve your job prospects and long-term happiness. There will be situations in the future where your husband will be unsure whether to take the training opportunity or earn some extra cash. Our students have always been happier in the long-term when they chose the training opportunity.
Kate@37
I am sorry to tell you something you probably don’t want to hear, but I am begging you: Do not get a PhD in political theory. Although I currently work in academic medicine, I hold a social science PhD from UCB, so I know something about the job prospects in the field. Practically speaking, there are no academic jobs for political theorists; there are many, many more PhDs than positions and this situation is only getting worse. In addition, political theory training is not valued by governments or consulting firms. Getting a PhD in this field is a very expensive way to make yourself unemployable (attrition rates before completion are also high as many people drop out when they realize how bad things are). Most programs will claim their placement rates are fine, but I urge you not to take their word for it. You can easily research the prospects for political theory PhDs; if the information doesn’t depress you, you’re a better man than I, Gunga Din.
That said, if you decide you want this degree for the experience (because it won’t improve your job prospects), you should definitely use your savings to pay for it.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:54 am
My husband and I have a similar debt from his graduate education (lawyer). It’s scary when we realize that the mortgage on his brother’s house is lower than our debt, but at the same time, we know that eventually we’ll be out of that debt and have a good future. Also, he’s doing something he loves and we know he’ll always be able to find a job. The same can be said of dentists. So live frugally for now, and then continue to live frugally after he graduates. Make paying down the debt your focus for the first few years after he finishes.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:56 am
I am a lawyer and graduated with around $60k in debt — all federal loans. I did consider the debt before going to school, and realized that my eventual earning potential far outweighed the debt.
Here are some things you can try to do to minimize you exposure: it sounds like you’re going to take out private loans, which is fine. Make sure you get all of the federal funds coming to you (Pell grants, Stafford, etc) before you do that. Next, on the unsubsized federal and the private loans, PAY THE INTEREST OFF. Don’t let it accrue, because it ends up becoming principal. If you can afford it, that’s one way to keep your debt from multiply over the next four years.
Third, I would disagree with the majority of commenters here and say your husband should NOT get a part-time job while he is in school. Today’s grad school, whatever it may be, is the college of the 60s and 70s. His grades WILL be looked at, and he needs to get good grades. That extra $1500/month or whatever he could make will not be worth the possibility of lower grades.
Fourth, accept the fact that he’s going to be in school and things will be different. For spouses of graduate students, I think there is a lot of resentment (I have to support you while you have fun in school) and pressure (I have to support both of us) and misunderstanding (You’re hanging out with people and having a good time while I’m working). I saw it all the time in law school. Realize and really think about what your husband’s study habits will be. Try to prepare. Dental school is no joke, as I am sure you know.
Last, don’t get consumed by this debt. It will ultimately benefit your family. I question lawyers who take on $180k in debt because law jobs are NOT as lucrative as many people believe they are. Dentists, however, can specialize in certain areas and basically assure themselves a certain lifestyle. Good luck to both of you!
March 7th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Make sure you’ve exhausted any and all scholarship or government funding opportunities. There could be money on the table that you don’t know about.
If part-time work is possible, your husband could look for work at a dentist’s office.Even if he’s doing office work there, he’ll be getting firsthand information about how the business works, and it could lead to a job or good connections after graduation. Plus his employer might be more supportive and understanding of his situation, having gone through it him/herself.
Other part-time options:
Work at the school where he’s studying
Look for work within walking distance of the school or home, to maximize time
March 7th, 2008 at 11:24 am
I really do think we confuse good and bad debt. Investing in a career is a way better investment than taking on a mortgage that’s too large for your income. If that’s the best program for him, and he’s ruled out all options of grants, scholarshops, whatever, then just deal and enjoy the ride as others have suggested. Try to remember that they are not going to ask for all that money back at once. My schooling costs were about $150k, and not even 8 years later, it’s gone. It’s not impossible if you live within your means and apply any additional windfalls to the debt. Would I have taken on 150k to become a philosophy major? Probably not. But you have a good expectation of reasonable income in the future.
I’d structure things so that you are living comfortably on one income for now (reasonable housing payment and transportation costs). This is not the time for brand new cars and the big house in the burbs, even though that seems to be the American expectation for newlyweds. Really, it’s OK to rent. It probably means postponing children until he’s a few years established in his career. Think library instead of Netflix, cooking at home, stuff like that. It’s not unpleasant, and I even scheduled splurges into my budget so things weren’t an interminable drag.
The advice about continuing to live like he’s in school for a while after he graduates is spot-on. And definitely consider adequate life insurance and disability insurance for both of you. Good luck to you both!
March 7th, 2008 at 11:28 am
I have to respond with a resounding DO NOT DO IT for the recommendation that he work part-time while in Dental School. I don’t think some commenters have a real idea of what the schedule and lifestyle is for someone in medical or dental school. My experience of medical school had me in lecture from 8AM-5PM followed by daily review and study. Weekends were spent studying as well as reviewing anatomy and practicing, and sleeping whenever I could. My 3rd and 4th year were spent basically in the hospital, getting 1 day off each week if I was lucky. You do not have time for a part time job. And if you choose a part-time job over research or rotations to improve your skills, grades, and gain contacts you are shooting yourself in the foot.
Realistically, the debt you obtain is going to be painful. Currently, I have deferred $180,000 at 2.83% and I am the low end of median, my colleagues are at 250K and above depending on whether they had to pay for undergrad or go to a private school.
The good thing is that Amanda is working and presumably they have no children. If at any point Amanda becomes pregnant, life becomes very difficult because she will not be working, and children are expensive. Nonetheless, I believe even without living expenses, tuition at many dental schools is in the range of 40-50K yearly. So, if they can live on her salary it will be good. The tools that he will use will have to be purchased as the dental school is not in the habit of providing you these as part of your tuition. The good thing, they are deductible and they will have a lower tax burden while he is in school.
As for what to do after he has completed training, I will point out that if he is planning to open up his own office, you will go into more debt initially because it will be expensive to start a practice or buy someone else out and a loan will be needed for that. However, people do go to the dentist and unlike many physicians, the dentist gets paid upfront or the service is not provided. The economics of that promise at the very minimum a profit of 150K or more yearly. If you avoid expensive purchases like a larger home, expensive cars, or vacations for the first few years then you should be able to pay off your debt as quickly as you want to.
Personally, my loans are currently deferred, they are accumulating interest and I am glad I consolidated. However, I still have lots of credit card debt because I didn’t have a spouse to cover the equipment and other things that needed coverage during medical school. Residency is helping me keep that debt from going out of control but I know within 6-8 months of finishing my fellowship next year I will be able to get rid of all of my credit card debt as well as several of my smaller loans. I see no point in paying off a loan at 2.83%. I get better returns out of my savings account right now at 3.6%.
My final point to Amanda and her husband would be to feel very sure that dental school is for him. If he doesn’t like it, he needs to decide within the first year. 200K is not a joke and you really need to know what you want at the beginning.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I don’t know if this has been said or not, but dentists make EXTREMELY good money. He can pay off loans in a very short amount of time upon graduation.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I’m with jtimberman that increasing the emergency fund is a good idea.
For one thing, the EF is to help handle debt payment should catastrophe strike. If debt payments go up, then you need a bigger reserve. (The $240K mortgage is why we have a $30K EF.)
Another is that it would ease Amanda’s peace of mind to know that the EF can cover them should she need or want to change jobs. I’ve known people who feel they can’t change their current job because they don’t have the cash flow to handle the transition to a new pay schedule. That’s just sad, to my mind.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Most dentists who make a lot of money run their own offices (or buy into a practice), rather than work as employees. Therefore, they are as much small-business owners as professionals.
$200k is not a huge investment if you are looking at starting a business of any kind. Perhaps you and DH could benefit from (re-)reading The Millionaire Next Door about how small-business owners think and live to become wealthy. If your DH has a vision for how he plans to practice dentistry, you can and he can formulate goals and plans for how to build up his (and your) incomes to get out of debt as soon as possible.
I’m a big planner, and like you, freaked out when we had our first “big debts”. As a pp suggested, thinking through the worst-case scenario and coming up with multiple ways of surviving everything makes life a lot less stressful.
As to comments about “living like adults” — did that, bought the t-shirt. Then we decided we’d rather be semi-retired ASAP, and are back to shopping at Tar-JAY, accepting hand-me-down furniture, driving beaters, and eating at home and cooking almost every meal. We spend money on what we love, but don’t spend to impress. As soon as they fix health care to make it accessible and affordable without employer benefits, we’re there.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
I don’t think educational debt is good debt. I think it’s even worse debt.
People keep student loans around for decades and decades; they never go away.
On top of that, what if he’s in his fourth year and becomes disabled, or any year after he graduates for that matter? Student loan debt is impossible to get rid of without writing checks–it’s not bankruptable and they will never settle for a lower amount.
I think going $200k in debt for this is stupid. He’s better off to go slower and pay his way by working extra or raise the money somehow.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Wait a second. $200k to be a dentist?!?! That’s crazy. And it’s not good debt. There’s a myth out there that any cost of college is worth paying. Treat it like a business transaction, how much is he making now? How much will he make as a dentist? How much income will you loose over those 4 years? For that kind of debt, he better make $150k a year more than you are making now. Also, where is he going to dental school? Harvard? The cost seems outrageous.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
KC has it right. You already had the right idea as well: live frugally. I got out of law school lucky to only be $120k in the hole. That was December 2006. I work in the government sector, so my take-home barely scratches $75k at the top end right now. That law school debt is down to $98k right now after only 15 months… because my wife and I kept living like graduate students instead of turning on the spending spigot. That’s only one year, and that’s with supporting, as of recently, a baby as well. That debt is going to be gone soon enough. Your husband can do the same. I wish you good health and prosperity!
-Mike
March 7th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
My husband is in his last year of chiropractic school and when he graduates our combined student loan debt will be ~$140K. My suggestion to you is to live on your income and do not have your husband get a job - he’ll need to spend all his time at school and studying. We have friends who are taking out loan money that goes toward their living expenses and tuition and their loans are much much higher than ours. If being a dentist is really what your husband wants, just minimize the debt as much as you can and plan to not make any major modifications to your lifestyle for a few years after he graduates. Good luck!
March 7th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
The only thing I would add is to make sure you can live with the terms of the loan. If its not from the Feds, apparently it can get pretty nasty. Make SURE you understand what you’re signing up for!
March 7th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
as someone going through a divorce, after paying for a husband’s education, with a future once ensured and now gone, i definitely want to make sure that both parties have not just a mutual understanding but a legal contract for future earnings to be geared toward paying off the debt first, then paying the salary on the wife’s end (for giving up all the niceties in the first place.)
March 7th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Are there alternatives to going into this kind of debt to become a dentist? $200K of debt sounds very daunting… no wonder it costs so much to go to a dentist.
Is it possible to get scholarships and/or grants? How about studying overseas?
I did my Masters in Electrical Engineering a few years back - started in ‘02 and finished in ‘06 - without taking out any loans at all. Did it pay-as-you-go. Worked contract jobs to raise money. I did end up taking some money out of my 401K to fund a few quarters (you can take money out of a retirement account to pay for schooling without getting hit with the 10% early withdrawl penalty). I went to a state Uni so my whole degree was less than 1 year of the quoted dental school price (way less).
March 8th, 2008 at 4:22 am
I think you need to stop worrying so much. I also think that a lot of the people commenting here don’t fully understand the situation. I graduated 3 years ago from pharmacy school with $100,000 in school loans. I’ve accepted that for the next 30 years $400 of my monthly paycheck will go toward these school loans. I find myself grateful that I was able to have the opportunity to go to school and wind up with a stable career. I obviously don’t like “losing” such a large chunk of my income, but I also am very happy that I still live quite comfortably with my pharmacists salary (which I would have never come close to earning if not for the school loans)!
March 8th, 2008 at 7:28 am
The only thing I would add is to manage your student loan debt very carefully. You never want to allow them to capitalize interest. Also, try to get the best interest rate you can. Last, and this one is very difficult, but possible. Your husband can continue in some (fairly easy) part-time schooling –money management classes, etc. and obtain an in school deferrment. This freezes interest from being owed at all, then every penny you pay them with your new dentist salary would go toward principle.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Carrie:
for federal loans, to get an in-school deferment you have to be in school at least half time. for most applications, this is 6 credits. that would have to be substantial interest for the tuition, fees and books to be cheaper than paying interest. never mind the extra time it would take from the important early stages of his career.
also, the only loans for which you are not responsible for interest during the in-school period are subsidized federal loans. the subsidized amount you can take out is limited and is determined based on your financial need.
either way, they are going to be paying interest on his student loans. i don’t see where remaining in school will reduce costs.
from studentaid.ed.gov:
“When you graduate with a graduate or professional degree, the maximum total debt allowed from Stafford Loans is $138,500. No more than $65,500 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.”
March 8th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
$200,000 is very high. If your job allows for it, he should opt for a state school instead. Univ. of Illinois Chicago charges $20000/yr - that’s $80,000. $120,000 less.
He should not get an outside job. He may be able to gain credit and a stipend as a TA, which may or may not be ‘easier.’
Can you drop him off and pick him up from school or can he carpool? If you haven’t been in debt, I’m assuming both of your vehicles are paid for, but if you can sell one you have instant cash and less maintenance fees and insurance costs. Not to mention taxes. Just something to consider.
You may want to consider a second job. Something different enough from what you’re doing to not be dull, but flexible enough to work around the first job.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
There is a reason most people call student loans “good debt.” It’s because if you really go and do what you are supposed to do, then your income will make such “debt” look miniscule. This isn’t always the case- if you go into massive debt for a liberal arts degree at a below-average college, for example. However, advanced degrees or degrees in fields that pay very well can usually pay for themselves several times over.
Also most student loans have the payments deferred until several months after graduation. So if you complete your studies and arent just there screwing around, you will already have a well paying job before the first payment is even due. Even if the starting salary isnt that high, in a few years it probably will be. Eventually the loans will be paid off and you will be making a lot more money than the average worker.
If the wife or the student is that worried about it, perhaps she doesnt have much faith in her husband to complete his studies and become at least an average dentist with a paying job.
Of course there are always unforseen circumstances, but I think you have to live life going for the win and the odds are on your side.
It also depends on the situation and marginal benefit of the degree, time and other opportunity costs,etc. If you have a choice of working at mcDonalds for the next 50 years or taking a student loan and being almost guaranteed of at least a comfrotable middle class existence- it’s a no brainer.
But if you are someone who makes $90,000 ( and is happy with current career path) a year and six figures of loans and 4 years of lost paychecks will bump you upto $100,000- you probably need to think more about it.
I wish I were exaggerating, but there are bloggers ( and other people out there in the world) out there who live in poverty but refuse to go to college because they might need a student loan. They are proud to live a Dave Ramsey “all debt is evil” certified lifestyle and actually put down and criticize people who go to college to better themselves. Talk about missing the big picture. The same people are trying to cut any penny they can just to survive but wont take on any “debt” to actually make more money.
Of course this isn’t always the case, but most people aren’t Bill Gates. Many people without higher education are pretty much stuck in low wage jobs for life. it’s either go to college and get a “real job” or toil in low wage no benefit work for decades. there is no in between.
Advanced degrees are a whole other ballgame but in many cases are comparable in the relative benefits. I personally would have confidence in myself and wouldnt worry that much about part-time jobs, frugal tricks, and all that. id be concentrating on my studies and looking forward to the bigger bucks. Of course this depends on how rigorous the studies are ( I would assume they are) and the support at home ( wife works, any kids?, and so on). If it all works out, in a few years there will be plenty of money for the retirement accounts and everything else.
March 8th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Check if there is a community that may want to subsidize your educational bill IF you / your husband commits to a 4-5-whatever years contract to practice in that area.
I have read / heard on the radio that this worked for some doctor. I don’t see why such thing will not work for a dentist.
There are many rural / remote communities which might be interested in such deal
March 8th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
“from studentaid.ed.gov:
“When you graduate with a graduate or professional degree, the maximum total debt allowed from Stafford Loans is $138,500. No more than $65,500 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.””
I would just like to point out that this is incorrect. I don’t have any source on what the real rule is, but I went to med school and ended up with $185K in all Stafford loans, graduation last year. I maxed out the Stafford every year, it paid my ~$40somethingK tuition and left me with a grand or two to spare each semester.
p.s. thanks to JD for posting this Ask the Readers question, I’m sure he noticed I posted on this a few days ago in the Forums.
After doing this myself I have no great tips on dealing with the mental anguish, which I’m also currently suffering, but I second the emotion on scholarships. In professional schools there are fewer than for college, but they still exist, as well as special loan opportunities from some professional organizations that can give you greatly discounted interest rates and the like. At least search the web with your career choice and ’scholarship’ as well as your state/county/town and scholarship and see what you turn up!
March 8th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
quinsy: Stafford loan limits are higher for accredited medical and law school programs.
March 10th, 2008 at 7:19 am
As a health professional with a solo practice my advice would be to spend your free time and breaks from school learning how to run a business, professional school teaches you required skills, but not always business skills.
If you have the best hands, and best skills you still won’t fill your office unless you know how to market your practice.
March 10th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Unfortunately, 200k for dental school is not unheard of or unreasonable. Some schools you can expect a 4 yr debt of 300k to 400k.
As for working, don’t do it. Grades are very important - this isn’t an undergraduate degree you are working on. The competition for grades is with students as dedicated as yourself. You will attend class from 8-5, then have to figure in time to study and complete dental lab work. Plus spend time with your spouse.
You are entering a great profession, where the only limit on what you make is you. You will work 4 days a week, take 6 weeks of vacation per year, and in no time will your student loans be a memory. Just remember to live like a student, not a doctor, till you get the debt paid off.
And, Congratulations!
March 11th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Someone (Helen?) mentioned insuring your life, but remember to insure your husband as well, since it is his future income that you are mortgaging. It is essential that you insure your husband’s life well enough to cover the debt you are taking on.
_______________________________
Wishing you a prosperous future
Daiko
March 12th, 2008 at 7:01 am
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March 12th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
I wanted to reply to post #65 about rural communities. A family dental practice in Houlton, Maine, a town on the Canadian border, had offered to provide a full ride for dental school just to bring a new professional to the area as I understood from recent conversation with relative living there. That they had no takers was stunning and heartbreaking.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
If your husband does get a part time job to help pay for college, he might consider working at a hotel on the weekends. That would leave his weeknights free for study. Working Saturday and Sunday (and maybe Friday night) he could easily get 24-32 hours a week. If he made at least $8 per hour, that’s $9,984 to $13,312 per year, gross. Hotels are always busiest on the weekend, and most GM’s would be thrilled to have a steady weekend worker.