The idea was to develop something that is easy to use and can be used via mobile phones as well.

It was launched just 2 days ago, so very new and we’re looking for feedback.

Kind regards,

Carlin

I’ve been a member of a timebank for three plus years. I’m on the board (we’re a licensed non-profit, but you don’t have to be). Many of the exchanges amount to things that would never be paid for.

A woman had an old cat that could not jump up to his favorite spot on the mantle anymore. Someone with carpentry skills made some simple steps (small wood blocks) and attached them the wall – voila, the cat can get up there without jumping.

We also have local non-profits as members. The senior center will provide space for a meeting and earn time dollars they can use for someone to come in a give a talk, or a class.

We have businesses that CHOOSE to be members.

That’s it for now.

[...] An Introduction to Time Banking – This is a really interesting concept – you give of your time and in exchange for the time given, you can cash in the time dollars (hours) for things you need. The author points out numerous ways she’s cashed in… [...]

Why not do a ‘free cycle’ style help page where people can post looking for help with projects and other people just help them.

Then at least you aren’t reducing everyones time value to an equal amount no matter the job and issuing currency in the form of time billed just to evade taxes.

P.S. Looking to build a time banking network in LA. Maybe we can get Traciatim to work off some of his debt by helping us put toghether a website.

Loretta’s 2 hours of work constitutes 2 man-hours. The 2 hour symphony concert is probably several hundred man-hours (ushers, building staff, symphony members including rehearsal time, etc.), but then it is also divided by the number of attendees (or potential attendees, depending on how you want to figure it). This may make a ticket worth substantially more or less than 2 hours.

I’d probably agree that it would be hard for this system to work on a large scale but who cares? If it works for a group of 5 or 50 and people are in it for the right reasons, why knock it?

This system is under the assumption that people are generally good and if you don’t think you can fit into the system for fear of thinking someone else is gaming the system or you possibly wanting to game the system, find another way to share or volunteer your time that works for you.

In a volunteer community, there is no need to keep track of who does what, because once you start to do so, the profit motive comes into play and it no longer becomes a pure volunteer activity. This is how the Ledger system fell apart (posted way back somewhere in the beginning) when people felt they wanted to help out, just to help out, not to be rewarded by a time dollar or some other metric of keeping track of good deeds. Would Mother Theresa want to know that all her good efforts were worth millions of time dollars? Would she use any of them? I don’t think so.

Since we live in a capitalist society that is becoming more and more disconnected with each other, I think creating a community atmosphere where people can help each other out with their learned skills is warranted.

How you go about helping each other out should be rewarded on a cash basis as all the above posts suggests that different activities are worth different amounts. Yes, you will have situations where you can barter services if there are equal in value, but most often cash or another version of currency would be needed. The benefit of creating such a community is realizing who’s everybody’s skills and needs are.

This system falls apart too when there aren’t enough volunteers, too much demand for certain services and not enough needs that do not require specialized skills.

One is that I don’t see this type of thing as a socialist or communist program. It is a voluntary program for people who want to trade their time for somebody else’s. It is bartering, but in a different fashion than has been seen in the past.

Second, in response to people who are saying there is no consequence for mediocre service. If people were able to review other’s services (think feedback on ebay), people who performed sub-par services would not get the same amount of “business” that somebody who performed stellar service would get. They would then not receive as many time credits and therefore would not receive the same amount of service in return. Thats consequence enough for me.

I believe this is a great idea and is doing a lot of good, especially in small communities. Its people caring about other people more than they care about money. Its people taking care of things that might not be done under normal circumstances.

Check out this section from the IT490 bulliten found http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/it490/:

In the case of services bartered by a taxpayer for either goods or services, the value of those services must be brought into the taxpayer’s income where they are of the kind generally provided by him in the course of earning income from, or are related to, a business or a profession carried on by him.

So unlike the USA, in Canada it may be legally tax free, you could call the CRA to verify I’m sure . . . contrary to popular belief they are pretty helpful.

It is a voluntary system. I love freedom, it creates most of what is good in the world. Freedom also lets you sleep late, go to a museum, volunteer in your community, and shovel your neighbors driveway. A free market is only one color in the spectrum that is freedom. A free market can do many things, and I am a big fan, but not everything can be planned for. It is the kindness of people that can pick up the slack.

Full libertarian freedom is hard to come by. Freedom to do anything as long as it is not an attack on others. The USA does not have that level of freedom, but this is not always noticed by those of us that are the USA. Our system enforced by the IRS taxes “income.” There have been many barter exchanges that have been shut down by the IRS. The logic they use to shut them down is the same logic that would make shoveling your neighbors driveway, or helping an old lady cross the street taxable. It is only because the system is run by people and not logic machines that this works at all. Taxation is not freedom, and the system needs its taxation. I believe the strict logic of “26 C.F.R. 1.61-2(d)(1) provides that if services are paid for other than in money, the fair market value of the property or services taken in payment must be included in income.” means the IRS could tax everyones received hours in this system. And, it sounds like time banking organizations maintain good records. Your moral outrage at this idea is justified. As justified an outrage you would feel if your neighbor was taxed after you shoveled their driveway, or your child was taxed because you fed him dinner. The community benefit goals of the organization and participants is something of a political shield. That shield is not however guaranteed. If you donate $50 to NPR, and receive a t-shirt, you are only allowed to deduct your non-compensated portion.

I have two hours a week I am willing to contribute, fixing peoples computers. If there were ten people a week in need of this service, eight of them would go without. A free market is said to be the most efficient allocator of resources. Adjustable pricing would let me raise my fee until only two hours of my service was in demand. This new higher price is a signal to competitors to jump in and offer their services too. Hey, I too might want to offer more hours now that it has become so lucrative. The free market system which means flexible prices has “solved” the shortage problem. The time banking system must rely on a benevolent dictator, or maybe a first come first served method of allocating my hours, or best of all let each volunteer choose those they wish to help. Eight people will go without in this system. The benevolent dictator might advertise the need for computer fixers, but that is not as efficient as a free market profit motive to recruit more help. It is the compulsory aspects of communist systems that are bad and should be avoided, and this system is voluntary. The free market has this system beat as far as efficiency, but first there is no completely free market. Second time banking is as of yet not taxed, and in this sense more free. Third it is run as a charitable organization, which I believe is necessary to pick up the slack left even by a completely free market. My neighbors computer might need repairing, and in a free market the price may have become unaffordable. Through an organization such as time banking, and the volunteer spirit, my neighbor’s computer too can be fixed. Although the free market doesn’t know it, my neighbor could be running a time banking organizations operations on his computer. One hours generosity could end up helping many many people, and that is a good thing.

I hope we get to keep both systems, and I hope the IRS (made of people) leaves time banking alone

These are both what I would qualify as ‘reward systems’. They are not bartering; they are incentives for you to complete another transaction. If they would qualify under any sort of taxable category, it would be as gifts.

Loretta, how can you confirm that the time dollar was given to the person for an honest hours good work? Just like real money you can’t really tell if that 10 bucks someone just gave you was given to them at a job, or just stolen from some old lady on the bus?

Are you able to track which dollars were given to which people when they spend them on your services?

P.S. Male . . . I pronounce it tray-key-at-em to keep a hard sound in there.

Justin, I agree with you, and this does happen. But again, the fact that this is voluntary keeps this in check. It does not take long to discover that someone is taking advantage of the concept. I simply do not help that person again. If this were govermently mandated, I would not be able to say no. The fact that we need to attend orientations and training before membership seems to also help keep those wanting something for nothing away.

http://community.timebanks.org/findtimebanks.php?sid=9eb3ed53672d92d9dc9ebd81e6687ad4

Secondly, the private letter did one thing only: It confirmed that the IRS believes that the Time Bank organization is indeed a non-for-profit company and not a barter exchange for tax purposes. It made no mention of whether any tax implications would exist for members, and I have to agree that such exchanges are taxable. This is an exchange of services, no matter how the exchange is tracked or the method of determining what is a fair exchange.

Also, Loretta, I think it is your view of this as more of a volunteer work than as an exchange of services, that is providing the rosy coloring that Traciatim is seeing through. Sure, if everyone in a system like this goes in intending to do work simply on a voluntary basis and never intending to redeem any hours, it will work great. It’s basically a huge volunteer organization, but with more paperwork involved. But, and this is the point Traciatim is making, if you begin introducing members who have no intention of providing quality service, and instead only wish to provide the bare minimum necessary to receive whatever services they desire, the system will rapidly degrade.

To Traciatim: Aristotle warned us that republics, in which cultured communities are sovereign and are governed by confederation, can turn into democracies, where the majority, controlled by demagogues, tyrannically oppresses the minority and then themselves. Democratic socialism is such a system. But he also warned that aristocracies, in which nobles, though wealthy, promote culture and have real obligations to those under them, can turn into oligarchies, where the powerful owe nothing, do little anyone will care about in a thousand years and live off of everyone else. That is capitalism. So, both socialism and capitalism are dangerous, and more dangerous as they grow less voluntary and bigger. You should fight them both, not attack one by promoting the other.

The time bank sounds good enough, although I’d rather start an informal “Ledger” than use Timebank USA’s system, and I don’t know if it would promote neighborliness if the bank covered an area bigger than a neighborhood.

I just wanted to say I found this an enjoyable and informative guest post, and thank the author.

To be completely honest with the IRS, you MUST report all professional services rendered for which you received ANY type of remuneration — including goods or other services.

26 C.F.R. 1.61-2(d)(1) provides that if services are paid for other than in money, the fair market value of the property or services taken in payment must be included in income.

Even though the Time Bank uses a “pay-it-forward” system, where there are no contracts between the parties, what is the truth of the matter? The truth is that everyone involved is benefiting from the exchange of services.

Yet if Rosie O’Donnell did the exact same thing she would probably not make the same amount of money. Therefor if Paris and Rosie both were trading ‘hours of panties’ for ‘hours of bush trimming’ then the . . . [yard work people . . . pun most surely intended] Paris ‘hours’ are worth more to the population, that’s capitalism at it’s finest. Thanks for the point.

Peoples willingness to pay, income, and capitalism aren’t based on the need of society, but only peoples willingness to pay. Your taxable income relies on people’s willingness to pay you, if that is in hours, muffins, oil changes, or dollars. Making everyone value exactly equal no matter the act is communism at work, even if it’s a voluntary program.

” . . . humans generally need more organization than that to scale activities and alternative economic systems provide such organization.”

Exactly, the value of money paid for time is all the incentive most people need. I work in a large corporation making OK money. If my value was just as good if I was sweeping sidewalks why bother doing anything more than that? That’s the problem with the plan, is there is no incentive for learning, development, or progress. Capitalism rewards people for these things. In the USA there is a balance between the republic government and the capitalist economy (though skewed to the corporations) so that the needs of the people kind of somewhat co-mingle with the plans for profits of the corporations.

@Nigel

“. . . people can trade time and talents which may not be of an monetary value . . .”

That’s the problem, they don’t have no value. Trading work which has value in normal circumstances with things and/or work that has another value is bartering under the law and is tax evasion if not reported. It’s only in the case that someone trades like skills that there would be no problem. For example, you trade some yard cleanup for an hour of helping someone move; both manual labour tasks that could arguably have the same value for the same amount of time.

In the example in the article 4 hours of labour were traded for 2 tickets who’s market value was $75 each, $150 together. That’s an obvious work-for-profit scenario and should be counted as income.

P.S. Sorry if the pun was too much, you can change it to lawn mowing if you want, I just think it was funny. I guess that’s just my sense of humour.

Having said that, I think time-banking sounds like a nice idea.