Ask the Readers: How Do You Live Frugally Without Seeming Like a Loser?
Published on - March 21st, 2008 (by J.D. Roth) In Wednesday’s discussion about how to live on less and love it, Steve left an interesting comment:
One topic I never see covered is “extreme finances” or even simple frugality in relationship to being single. I’m not talking about being a cheapskate during dinner, but maintaining a low-powered lifestyle while seeking a mate. Like it or not, first impressions count and first impressions are often based on superficialities, even by nice and otherwise deep people.
Yes, there is always the rare person who will not care if you drive an old car or live in a cheap apartment, but other people don’t see old cars and cheap apartments as choices for a well thought-out philosophy, but as indicators that someone does not have his life together.
Is frugality beyond a certain point something that is for married people only?
This comment prompted Ben to respond to me via e-mail:
This is something that’s been on my mind as I try to improve my spending habits while preparing to return to an active date-hunting, mate-seeking lifestyle.
It’s not just about dating, though — if anything, that’s the easy part; just say “hey, how about the park?” instead of “Let me treat you to Chez Expensivique.” The hard part is trying to live your whole life frugally without seeming a) cheap, or b) a loser. (“No, honest, I choose to drive this reliable older car, it’s not that I can only afford to crawl along in my grandfather’s half-dead Gremlin!”) Frugal choices can make an impression that you don’t want to make.
Most discussion on this topic seems to focus on “Don’t worry about what other people think,” which is hard when you’re trying very hard to make a very good first impression on those people so they’ll want to date you. After all, it’s one case where we really are being judged by others — and should care about what those judgements are. The only other response I tend to see is “here’s some cheap date ideas” — which, like I said, is the easy part. After all, even wealthy, spendy-type folks go for walks in the park.
These gentlemen have a point: how does one live frugally without looking cheap?
During my last week at the box factory, a potential customer dropped by to make a surprise visit. When I know that I’m going to see somebody I need to impress, I try to look halfway decent. But on that day I was wearing a ten-year-old sweatshirt with fraying cuffs and a fraying collar. I had on a beat-up pair of sneakers. There was no simple way for me to explain to this man, “Yes, I know I might look like a slob, but it’s for all the right reasons.”
In dating and business and day-to-day life, people do judge us by superficial standards. How do you maintain a frugal lifestyle without giving the impression you’re cheap?
GRS is committed to helping our readers save and achieve your financial goals.Savings interest rates may be low, but that’s all the more reason to shop for the best rate.Find the highest savings interest rate from Ally Bank, Capital One 360, Everbank, and more.
This article is about Ask the Readers, Choices, Frugality, Relationships
Disclaimer: This content is not provided or commissioned by American Express. Opinions expressed here are author's alone, not those of American Express, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by American Express. This site may be compensated through American Express Affiliate Program.
Discover is a paid advertiser of this site. Reasonable efforts are made to maintain accurate information. See the Discover online credit card application for full terms and conditions on offers and rewards.
SEARCH FOR RECENT ARTICLES
The best advice I can give you is to focus on your mutual interests FIRST.
Do stuff to get to know each other and it doesn’t need to be expensive, just interesting.
I agree with JoddeHaa – Be frugal with yourself and generous with others. That doesn’t mean spoiling them or letting them take advantage of you. Generosity is noticing what they’re into and making it happen for them before thinking about your own needs.
loading....
That is a hard one! Here’s my story (sorry, it’s long!).
I met my boyfriend off of craigslist. We emailed several times before we met and we were extremely excited to meet because we connected very well through text and found one another very intellectually stimulating — and the pictures were great, too! We decided to go get tea at Powell’s World Cup. (At this time he was unemployed.)
We got there and met up. I was already a little mad because he was an hour late. So we went to order and after we both ordered, he asked if we should split the cost of the tea.
I was standing there dressed in my Sunday best and stopped the presses and loudly asked ‘…you want ME to buy my own TEA?’
Because… really… we had met through the personals, m4w, had had so many late night conversations and he’d asked if I wanted to go out for tea. So I was blown away that he wasn’t going to buy my tea. It was an awkward moment and I didn’t enjoy my tea or that first meeting very much. That first meeting slowly improved as we walked along the aisles of the store, though, and got to know each other through the very frugal date experience of going to the bookstore.
It was a weird series of miscommunications for the first… three dates. He didn’t buy things for me, I expected him to – but it was the only thing that didn’t make sense.
The first night we went out on a ‘REAL’ date, however, it was so clear that it was almost exciting. He said he wanted to wine & dine me all across town, and I treated him to a couple of martinis too. We kissed for the first time that night.
It’s weird, but $$ was an indicator of where we were in terms of courtship. When we started buying each OTHER drinks we knew we had moved up to the next level!
We both work pretty busy hours now and take one another out when we can. He knows that frugality is more important to me than it is to him (he doesn’t have an IRA at 24, but I do, for instance), but he never pressures me to pay for anything and I’m comfortable saying ‘I can’t afford it’ to him. When I get my paycheck, he loves looking through the Chinook Book with me and picking out the best deal for a good meal in town. Meanwhile, he says he enjoys treating me to fancy dinners — it was when we weren’t sure if we really were attracted that he didn’t want to feel like I was using him for dinner, etc.
In our story, we weathered the first couple of awkward interactions about money because we were genuinely attracted to one another ,and it’s worked out really well.
Guys and girls, if a prospective mate can’t tolerate just ‘getting to know each other’ with frugal choices when you first start dating… it’s not worth it, because there’s a lot more to dating than elegant surroundings.
loading....
I love reading the responses here. Lots of opinions!
Ben, here’s my two cents. I agree with you that first impressions do count. There is an interest and attraction that is there (or not) in the first few minutes, before you have time to find out if someone is a saver, a spender, etc. I personally like guys who are funny and appear to have a sense of personal style — that doesn’t mean they paid $200 for a designer shirt, but it does mean that maybe they aren’t wearing the same jeans-and-striped-button-down “uniform” as every other 30-something guy in the room. I like it when there ‘s just a hint of personality.
I think that meeting women in non-bar settings might also help. Take an inexpensive dance class, a cooking class, or language class. Go to the driving range. Meeting someone in that type of setting gives you more to do and talk about then just going to a bar or restaurant.
Daytime dates are less expensive and also less intimidating, especially at the beginning. As much as I love a man who can cook, be careful about asking a woman over for dinner on the 2nd date — I personally would be uncomfortable about going to a man’s apartment, early in the dating cycle. “Come over to my place” still has that undercurrent of “maybe you’ll stay over.” So ask her over for brunch instead, then go to a matinee, or a walk.
It’s tough out there. If you’re using match.com (unfortunately you have to pay), you could also include a blurb about your financial goals in your profile. That could filter out anyone who has a problem with frugality.
loading....
There is absolutely a difference between frugal and cheap. Frugal can be admirable, but cheap is never an attractive quality.
Cheap means that you’re so unwilling to spend money that you deprive yourself of some of the nicer things in life. Life is too short to deprive yourself of quality experiences all the time. You won’t enjoy life as well as you can, and women pick up on that. Women (and men) mostly desire to be happy and fulfilled, not deprived. Happiness comes from quality experiences.
If you want to impress dates on a budget, you need to develop a sense of hipness and creativity. I live in New York City, one of the most expensive cities in the world, but the activities I engage in are mostly cheap or free. Things that have a hipster/bohemian vibe are always low-cost. Instead of going to an expensive event at the Met, I go the latest show at a local indie art gallery. Instead of blowing wads of cash at a blockbuster mainstream movie, I go to an art house cinema. Instead of riding around in a limousine all night, I go kayaking on the river.
My point is that certain activities are naturally low-cost, and offer a fun and fulfilling, quality experience. Anything bohemian/hipster-ish is usually like that. High-society activities like eating out at a super-swanky restaurant are naturally expensive and not very fulfilling or fun (for me at least) anyway.
So for frugal dating, think bohemian and creative. If you’re not particularly creative and hip, then you need to start making more money or spending more on credit. The choices you make with your money influence the kind of lifestyle you have. If you enjoy being frugal, get used to being bohemian-ish. If deep down you want to live the high-society lifestyle, then get a better job or learn to live credit card to credit card. That’s the choice you need to make.
loading....
make the people around you and looking in on your life see what you’ve *replaced* your stuff with. Deleting stuff just to delete stuff never works, you have to have something replace it. By and large that replacement tends to be more valuable than the *stuff* people covet.
zach
pennywise-poundfoolish.typepad.com
loading....
To veer a little off-topic:
“I personally like guys who are funny and appear to have a sense of personal style — that doesn’t mean they paid $200 for a designer shirt, but it does mean that maybe they aren’t wearing the same jeans-and-striped-button-down “uniform” as every other 30-something guy in the room.”
You wouldn’t believe how much time I’ve spent hunting for affordable non-striped-button-down shirt options. I used to wear some ribbed sweaters too, but those seem to have gone out of style, leaving my viable non-ugly options as A) striped button downs and B) solid-color button-downs. It’s a little awkward, let me tell you, but unfortunately, men’s clothing has always tended toward the Uniform of the Year pattern – without tremendous flexibility or room for personal flair. Please don’t judge too harshly those of us who just try to make the best of it.
loading....
I already responded to Steve in the comments where he asked the question I think.
My husband driving an older car, not doing stupid things with money etc… was actually a good thing when I met him. Our first date was going to a park where some of his friends were juggling fire. It was completely free and awesome to watch him playing with a burning staff (one way to impress a certain type of girl I guess lol).
Just because I drive a 13 year old car doesn’t mean I let it look like crap. I keep it cleaned out and keep it maintained. Also, buying second hand clothing doesn’t mean buying things with holes in it.
loading....
Not sure I’m qualified to give advice since I’m a whack-job who found another whack-job and we’ve been living happily in sin for 10 odd or so years now…
But when I was a red-blooded single, I was highly wary of the guys who dropped a lot of cash on me, or our activities, early on. Was it an done with an eye towards an owed “cup of coffee” at the end of an evening? (I know no readers here make that conclusion but the ladies know it happens–in no uncertain terms–more often than not.)
We’re presumably all adults and like the occassional snuggle without strings so of course we will spend some time casting a wide net without long term thoughts. But as a man, be aware seeming frugal might be to your advantage because sometimes spending money can send exactly the wrong message to a woman in the early stages of getting to know each other (re the original post/first impressions).
You might get offered more free cups of coffee to cap off a perfectly sweet evening in the park if she feels there were no expected return on investment.
loading....
Keep in mind, to someone that is not frugal all frugal people appear cheap, so it is pointless in trying to win that person over.
Most frugal people won’t be to quick to condemn your habits because they are likely to be doing many of the same things. But if you come across as simply trying to “beat the system” at every turn and save a buck, then you will appear to be cheap to everyone (even frugal people).
loading....
Wow, so many comments! Good pick JD.
I would suggest asking a female friend for an evaluation. Buy her a NICE dinner, with a bottle of wine, and level with her.
It may be something other than what you are assuming. Sometimes you need an independent evaluation.
loading....
My last boyfriend had frequent cash injections from his family, spent money, didn’t carry debt, but also didn’t focus on frugality. It raised a flag with me, because I knew we’d continue to have problems. We’re friends now, which works better for us.
My current boyfriend drives a late-model Saturn, rents just like I do, and is a bargain hunter like me. We both have good taste and like good things, but we have good impulse control. One of the things I liked about him was his sense of financial responsibility.
Yes, there are women who will care about superficial ways of spending money (just as there are men who do). But the smart ones know that it’s not what you spend that makes you financially smart, it’s what you have in the bank.
I will say, however, that my now-boyfriend was wise in our first dates. We went to the park and enjoyed cookies. The next time, we went to the ocean and had dinner at a nice restaurant. We balance our dates between inexpensive activities and the occasional splurge (this week, I treated us both to Thai massage, about $120 total). I think it’s this sense of balance that makes things work.
Oh, and on the first date, don’t go Dutch if you asked her out. This is SO CHEAP and TACKY. I always look at it like, “What? You ask me on a date but you can’t pony up the $5 for my coffee? See ya.” It’s just bad etiquette.
loading....
As a lifelong bachelor, I can attest to knowing something about dating, although apparently unsuccessfully
I can definitely tell you that frugality is not just for married people; there’s lots of ways to be frugal and still have fun and look fine. Clothing at discount stores like Ross or even thrift stores tend to look just fine, are often name brand, and definitely cost less. There’s lots of free dates out there, like hiking, heading to the beach (at least here), and low cost ways to have a fun night out (try a DVD from the library at home rather than a movie theater or a community theater rather than a fancy live show).
I think there’s lots of options!
loading....
As a woman who ended up with $35,000 in debt after living with a financially irresponsible boyfriend for 4 years, when I started dating again it was very important for me to only spend my time in a serious relationship with a financially responsible man. I was looking for a man who could enjoy a bike ride, hike in the woods, kayak on a river, etc rather than the dinners and nightlife out, which left me fat and broke when it ended. Yeah, much bitterness.
I dated quite a few men over one summer, and two stuck out in my mind. One was a software developer, drove a Mercedes, had a house, an interior decorator, and housekeeper. He certainly had the income level to support all these things, but I had concerns about his frugality. Frankly, I thought he was too expensive for me. I wouldn’t be able to keep up with his lifestyle. This is what got me in trouble in the first place. It wasn’t even what I wanted. A housekeeper? For a single person? Wash the dishes yourself!
Another guy I was dating was an engineer. He made almost as much as the software developer, but drove a tiny little 12 year old Ford Festiva. His friends drove Mustangs and Imprezas and made fun of him, but he laughed it off in good humor. Yeah, maybe we weren’t styling when we went on dates, but we ate at nice places, went biking, hiking, skiing and more. The thing that attracted me to him was he was frugal and generous in the right ways. We didn’t have a pimp ride and a 2 story house, but we ate dinner at nice places occasionally, bargain shopped for nice vacations and flew coach, while balancing with sensible dinners at home and netflix at night. Oh, and we wash our own dishes.
Yep, we’re still together.
loading....
Wow, J.D., lots of comments! Maybe you should think about setting up a Get Rich Slowly dating site, eh?
It’s been said already, but, as a single female, it matters a lot to me if the person I’m seeing takes care of themselves (clean, neat) and their property (clothes, car). Doesn’t matter if it’s old, used, whatever. It’s the respect for others and things that shows, and that’s HOT.
loading....
#6, Sabrina, really nailed it. For my 2 cents…
Buck up, for starters. If you’re ashamed of living frugally, that’s going to come through. If you feel doubtful about your lifestyle, why are you living it? If you believe in what you’re doing, be confident. Trust in the rightness of your decisions.
I ride my bicycle to work. When people ask why, I explain that I live so close by, it’s actually faster to bike – plus it’s nice to get a workout without needing a gym.
Cooking at home instead of going out? Now that’s something to be proud of – especially if you’re a guy. Women dig guys who cook. And if you don’t believe me, ask my fiancee
Make it clear that your choices are tied to a purpose. If you’re in debt and paying it down, there’s a time and place where it’ll be appropriate to address that (though not on the first date, I’m sure). It’s pretty simple – “Yeah, back in the day I spent too much money. But I’m looking ahead more now, I’ve done some growing up. I want to pay off my bills and save more… for a house, a family, that entrepreneur dream [insert goal here]“. Yes, you took on some debt, but you’re confident and thinking ahead, and that is appealing to a mature person with half a brain. Which is who you’d want anyway.
The main thing though… try not to date. Dating sucks. It’s forced, it’s contrived, and it’s a strain on your wallet and your time. Focus on activities, on just doing what you enjoy. Be more active in hobby groups, your church, whatever. You’re far more likely to meet someone that way, and have a better connection from the get-go.
loading....
Maybe the problem is NOT that you don’t look nice, it’s that you look like a million bucks and attract girls who want to marry millionaires! (Let those go, and tell the one who likes the frugal you – hey, by saving on this and that, I will be able to retire a millionaire.)
You know, if you are attracting a lot of girls that end up thinking you’re too cheap, maybe you ARE making a good first impression (you are still getting dates, right?) and they are making a bad last impression!
loading....
Ben, this may not be true of you, but I’ve known men who were frugal, geeky, or otherwise non-mainstream and complained they couldn’t get dates, and it turned out they were only interested in mainstream women–that is, they passed over women who didn’t have manicures, professionally highlighted hair, etc., and only wanted women who spent a lot of money/time/energy on their appearance. If you don’t know already, it would be good for you to learn from a woman friend some of the facts of female grooming and dressing, and then you can scan a room and tell the women spend a lot and probably want a mate who does too, and the women who are more frugal and would appreciate a frugal mate. You may have to change your idea of “hot,” though, if that idea has been created by the mainstream media and professional models/actresses.
There may be frugal women out there who somehow manage to look like models, but most of us don’t and don’t want to–we’ve got better things to spend our time and energy on.
And as a bonus, you’ll end up with a mate who won’t drive you crazy with expensive grooming and dressing habits down the line.
I feel like I’m going to get flamed for this comment, but hopefully it’ll help someone.
loading....
It reminds me of that line by Henry Miller about his frugal family: “It was always for tomorrow but tomorrow never came.” If one isn’t willing to set aside a certain amount of money for daily or weekly extravagances (such as dates) when will it ever be okay to spend that money so direly saved?
On the other hand, I can think of nothing sexier than a man with a plan. If I were to go on a first date with a man able to passionately convey that he is trying to go against the grain of mindless consumerism, he’d definitely get a second date.
loading....
I stopped caring what people thought of me, which made me be myself more, which made me more attractive to others.
But in the end if a girl you’re dating judges frugal choices (car, apartment) and you keep them around anyway then you’re basically telling them they’re right:
YOU aren’t enough.
loading....
#119, Nicole, right on! Ditto that!
You are enough. If you don’t believe that, who will?
loading....
@ Natural Beauty (post #117)
I concur!!
loading....
Thanks Maren -
And yes, sometimes you never know what you get when you bring acceptance.
My love (of all loves), he drives the ultimate of junk cars, but for the longest while, little did I ever know, he has a nest egg the size of a house.
loading....
I agree with so many things said already.
Frugal is fine, cheap is not. Many folks’ favorite places to eat are not expensive at all, so find out where your date likes to go often and go there. If she only picks the most expensive places, she’s probably not the girl for you. And, similarly, the guys who spent the most money on me on dates always ended up being the losers, actually. One guy took me out for the most expensive dinner and sent me a dozen roses the next day. I thought it was too much and he was insincere. (Imagine my surprise when I found out he’d dated two other girls I’d known and done exactly the same thing for their first dates. That was his M.O.) People who throw money at you often do it because there is no substance behind them.
Generosity speaks volumes about a person and it generosity with money does not necessarily mean the most … it could be generosity with time, generostiy with your creativity, etc.
I don’t want to go on a date or be with a guy who talks about nothing but money. That is a miserable time.
I think Ben will do fine as long as he believes in what he is doing, his approach, etc. His sincerity will come through and like others said, if he is honest about his situation, that will make a huge difference with his dates.
On another note, J.D.–I promise I am not picking on you, really … I do love your blog and your posts, but I laughed out loud when I read your comment that you might try to get rid of your ratty clothes over the next year. Come on. You are a man who erased all your debt in a year, right? I think you can purge your ratty clothes and replace them by tasteful thrift shop finds in a couple of weeks at most. You don’t need a ton of clothes. Seriously, most of us end up wearing the same few pieces over and over again even though we tend to have closets full of clothes. You can do it, J.D.! Even in your work-from-home state, you should be “dressing to the shoes” every day because we are all more productive when we are dressed to work. (This topic be another good post on working conditons that are best for success.) BTW, words like “might” and “try” mean you’ve already made up your mind you are not going to do something. I know, I am guilty of using them at times just like everyone else.
loading....
You need to be smart about money, not cheap about it. That’s much more attractive then mindless spending.
Lisa
loading....
whew! what a lot of great comments! I’m also single and appreciate someone who wants to do interesting things – they don’t have to be expensive at all.
One thing to consider: I hope that a person who is interested in watching their funds is looking for similar behaviors in the person they date. For example, I would find it a turnoff if a guy had a new shiny car and a fancy apartment and all the latest gadgets. To me that’s not the best use of funds, even though here in the bay area it seems like *everyone* has the latest gadgets!
Of course since I’m the thrifty gal, I tend to spend lots of time at home or out with friends doing inexpensive things.. leaving me to think I’ll never meet a guy to date!
loading....
Who really cares what people think? I tend to live quite frugally and I think that the people who drive nice cars are probably in some serious debt while others that drive 10 year old cars are going to be able to enjoy a nice retirement.
It’s so sad that this society basis judgement on materials. Those who are frugal will have the last laugh
loading....
Thanks for yet another great post! I often wonder when I meet someone new: “can I afford this guy”? “Is he going to mind that my car is 13 years old and held together with glue”? “Is he going to understand why I’m working two jobs, and can’t go off for a weekend skiing trip without saving for it for a couple of months”?
That said, it goes both ways: I also look for partners who have good money sense, although that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s wealthy. It just means he knows what to do with a dollar, regardless of his prior financial history. Does he drive a clunker but have dreams of early retirement (and the commitment to his 401K to go along with it)? If so, I’m okay with that (who am I to judge, after all?).
Hmmm, maybe someone should write a book on this topic, if there’s not one already out there. . . .
loading....
Here’s my take: it is never in the interest of a man to reveal his true financial status to a woman, ever. Doing so is always a losing proposition for the man. A bachelor should appear far less successful than he actually he is, because a single man who is successful will always get walked all over by women who think they deserve to share the wealth. Funnel at least 50% of your paycheck directly to an account in the Cayman Islands. Make her pay for the dates, make her buy you a car and keep the tank full, and have her put a down payment on a house, to make up for all of the gifts and handouts you’ve showered women with since you were a youth.
There are 1.5 billion women on the planet aged 18-35. If any woman calls you cheap for any reason, tell her to go to hell, and never look back. Life is too short to waste time on them. For every woman like this, there are a thousand others who are prettier, sexier, and nicer, and a lot less controlling. Women should worship you for the handsome masculine god that you are and they should be the ones who are thankful and honored to be with you, not the other way around.
Leave the demanding women to the nice (but dumb) guys who let women walk all over them.
loading....
A lot of times, women like to try to control you by setting expectations for you to try to live up to. By ignoring those expectations, and just doing your thing, you become interesting.
It often works in your favor to flaunt your imperfections, particularly if you can do it in a humourous way. (But, not with a ‘poor me’ attitude.)
How much money you have in the bank should be a non-issue, if you’re dealing with the sort of woman you OUGHT to be dealing with.
-Don’t be perfect. Be interesting.
loading....
There is a difference between being a cheap date verses a frugal date. Being cheap smacks of selfishness while being frugal is borne out of necessity. A lot of frugal people are generous with what they do have. A perceptive and open-minded person can certainly tell the difference.
loading....
I work in an industry that employs mostly young kids, many right out of high school. I think the average age is about 21. At 41, I am just a crazy old lady with my quaint cash using ways. Many of the guys at work have girlfriends who suck them dry of every penny. These poor guys, so young and well, clueless, feel they have to shower their girlfriends in expensive gifts to keep them interested. Sadly, the girls practically demand the fancy outings and gifts. Why bother working and getting that stuff yourself, when you can smile and sweet talk a guy into getting it for you. And if it means maxing out a credit card, well that’s just the way it’s gonna be. Of course, I bite my tongue because a) they are blinded my love and lust and wouldn’t listen to me anyways b) it’s a lesson they need to learn. Sadly, one of my friends, a nice guy with an okay job, found himself a girl who took one took at him and instead of seeing a kind, gentle guy, she saw a giant unlimited ATM. No matter how hard I tried to get him to see what he was getting into, he stayed with the girl. Instead of reading the warning signs and running for the hills, he is now saddled with the responsibility of supporting a girlfriend who doesn’t want to hold a job, her 3 year old child from another relationship (the child’s father is MIA) and now a baby due in the summer. Now my friend will be living in what can only be described as grinding poverty for the next 18-20 years because he ignored the warning signs of someone who sucked him dry from the very beginning of the relationship. So my only dating advice is, if someone pressures you for stuff and fancy dates, get out. Flee.
loading....
Apologies if this is already mentioned (I haven’t read all 131 comments), but frugality can easily be reframed as “green” and “sustainable” (a laudable lifestyle choice these days).
loading....
A few words about how I see “frugal” being different from “cheap”.
“Cheap” is just being cheap, acquisitive, and not wanting to spend money as an end in itself.
“Frugal” is not having a problem with spending money, only on spending money for things you don’t value. To me being frugal is trying as much as possible to use your money only on things you appreciate.
I live where I do, because I like it. Having been poor in my 20s, it seems like a palace to me and I honestly would not appreciate another place very much.
I drive the car I do, again, because when I was in my 20s I was poor. I didn’t have a car. It is enough for me merely to have a functioning ( paid for ) car without rust one that doesn’t look like a “beater”.
Being green is one of my values so I am happy to hang onto my old Honda until it is completely used up or some of those much promised eco friendly cars come out in 2010.
I don’t spend my money on these things because those things don’t give me much of a charge. It wouldn’t be “frugal”.
I do get a charge out of socializing. I have no issues with taking a *good* woman on a nice date and spending large amounts money to have a lot of fun. That is something I get a charge out of. Spending my money there versus on things I am luke warm to is being “frugal”.
While really cool women, green women, progressive women understand the value of owning a Prius at a first impression the value of using up an old Honda isn’t obvious.
I have seen the judgmental looks on various faces. This is often taken care of once I read their face, intercept their thoughts and explain myself. Sometimes it isn’t.
I guess the key is to steer my dates away mistaken superficial signs until they get to know me.
That or drive my GM Volt in 2010 to my new apartment.
Thanks for the MANY interesting comments. I am bookmarking this thread and I will read every single one.
loading....
Oh, my stars, the second Get Rich Slowly has a dating site, I will be bachelorette #2.
Sigh… if your car is obviously well-maintained and you are wearing natural fibers and are well-groomed, well, sweetie, you don’t want *that* woman anyhow. Go to church, or synagogue, or a not-for-profit, or learn to knit and join the local knitter’s guild to meet a woman of quality and maturity (note: that’s not age. I know several mature sixteen-year-olds, although I recommend you hold off on dating them for a while). The high-maintenance look, when financed by serious credit cards rather than, say, a friend who trades manicures for a few hours a month keeping the books in order, is the definition of cheap, no matter how expensive she looks. But I bet you knew that. (Me? I’m a professional model, seriously. But I’m fortunate that my look is “classic” and I have hair and features that mousse abuse would only detract from, and the exercise my body best responds to is nearly free— I run, dance, and work out with dumbbells. Bless my parents!)
I absolutely loathe the fooferaw over “who pays.” The person who suggested the restaurant pays, and if there is a next date, the other person suggests. But you know what I, as a frugal woman, really want? I want to stop wasting time on “date-like” activities. Save it for when we’re married, why don’t you? I work seventy hours a week when I *don’t* model. (Yes, I know, I sound like a complete lazybones, but I also garden and run a small business on the side— I hope I might be forgiven.) What I would really like is for someone to keep me company and do laundry with me, or spend an afternoon helping an imaginary someone alphabetize his bookshelves or weed the garden together. Stuff that tells you what you really want to know— what does he *really* read, does he pre-treat, does he think clover in a lawn is a weed or does he have opinions about nitrogen fixing? Anyone can make Ben Affleck jokes after stumbling out of a movie theater, but can he make me laugh about caulk?
And the people above are right. When you are grown-up enough to be in a relationship in the first place, forethought, dependability and goals are *very* sexy.
(Sigh. The new standards for a wife, I understand, are that she should be under the age of twenty-six and either own her own house or be able to pay such a sizable down payment on one that you will be free and clear before she reaches the age of thirty, one of you can be a stay-at-home parent. Which means I’ll never have anything more interesting than a hot-water bottle to cuddle up to. Oh, well. Being able to be the captain of your fate is fun, too. Plus, I think caulk is inherently funny.)
loading....
P.S. Consideration is good, too, as mentioned above. One of my older male relatives makes women swoon by his courtly, old-fashioned habit of standing up briefly whenever a woman sits down at or leaves the table, and a day at the park flying kites with $30 worth of flowers sent the day after trumps a $400 dinner in terms of impressiveness.
P.P.S. IMO, it’s not confidence that attracts. Both men and women go for people that they feel they can make happy.
loading....
Honestly, being a little generous to family and friends and holding back a little with yourself shows a potential mate can show a lot to your potential partner. Sure, high maintenance people will be put off by a lack of expensive “courting” but the right person can look beyond the older sweatshirt and see the hand holding flowers picked on the side of the road on the way home from work.
loading....
Living frugally is hardly looking like a cheap skate. My big vice was video games. At 60 bucks a pop, even a mild amusement becomes a major purchase. So, I swapped to a Netflix-esque service, Gamefly. 24 bucks a month, not even half the price of a single title, and I get two games out a once. I play between three and five games a month and save a bundle.
It’s not hard to have your cake and eat it, too. You just need to be patient. When I needed new work clothes, I hit Target instead of some overpriced, Fifth Avenue design shop. The pants look great, fit great and didn’t set me back a week’s pay.
loading....
Always go dutch (Splitting all bills down the middle). Paying for your date is totally a tradition for our parents generation.
Meet for Happy Hours. I know restaurants that serve full meals for $2-5 after purchasing one drink. Usually leave fed & drank for $10.
Go to cheap movies. $3 for a movie that came out 3 months ago, who cares? Right now, my theater is playing “No Country For Old Men” and “I Am Legend”, pretty new releases!
loading....
I dated the Emperor of Cheap for several years and even lived with him for a while. He was attractive to me because he was extremely sexy: he kept himself in top shape, he was smart, and he had a great sense of humor. He did not dress well — a mutual acquaintance (male) refused to be seen in public with him because he used to wear old, worn-out nylon shorts that let it all hang out (lately he’s started wearing better clothes). One attraction to him was that having grown up as a blue-collar kid, I imagined I wanted to escape the upper-class lifestyle I had fallen into, which was populated by snobs and airheads.
And it’s true: I do feel more at home with working-class and middle-class people than among the rich…who indeed are different from us.
This guy managed to quit his job in his late 40s, and his frugal lifestyle — combined with an annual TDY of six weeks to three months with the Air Force Reserve — allowed him to never look back. When he bought a house, he bought it in cash. When he bought a car, he bought it in cash. He was able to do so because he was extremely, extremely tight. Today he lives on Social Security, proceeds from savings, and his Air Force pension and says he does not know how to spend all the money — most of it goes into savings. His lifestyle is comfortable: he has a nice home in a clean, safe neighborhood, he drives a new Camry, he travels whenever he wants to, he goes dancing several nights a week, hikes and bicycles every day, goes to concerts and community activities a couple of times a week, volunteers, and is never bored. As I scribble he’s planning to spend a large part of today at a five-hour performance of the opera Tristan und Isolde, for which he obtained a free ticket. He spends less than $12,000 a year.
Bully for him. But for me there was a limit. After a while I became disenchanted with habits like cooking breakfast, lunch, & dinner on a camp stove in the motel room when we traveled–that’s if he could be persuaded to pony up $20 (no joke!) to stay in a room instead of sleeping on the ground. I got tired of being embarrassed to be seen in public with a man wearing threadbare clothes. I began to feel it was tedious and annoying to be asked to buy him a cup of coffee (after he invited me out) because after all the last time he bought mine (weeks before).
I’d say you don’t have to live like the King of Siam to be attractive to women who have something between the ears. But you do have to behave as though you’re at least close to normal. Be reasonably well groomed: get your hair cut; yard-sale the threadbare, faded clothing and wear simple, clean slacks and shirts in good condition. Get the fat off, get rid of the cigarettes, and keep yourself in reasonable physical shape. Keep the car clean and in good repair but otherwise don’t worry about it — women who are more impressed by your car than by you are not worth your time.
Then develop a repertoire of fun that doesn’t require much cash outlay: hiking and bicycling (get bike at yard sale or sheriff’s auction) are very good. You can meet interesting young women through local hiking and biking groups and through Meetup.com’s interest groups. You can combine a picnic with a hike or bicycle outing — very cheap, lots of fun. Look for free or inexpensive concerts in your community and at local colleges — these are usually listed at your local NPR station’s website. Develop frugal hobbies and buy the gear for them at estate sales, yard sales, and thrift shops. Check out the Emperor’s list of 60 free or low-cost ways to entertain yourself, which he contributed to Funny a while back; go to the Archive to find it.
Finally, be patient. Women come and women go. We are as the sands on the seashore.
loading....
Presently in the USofA living within one’s means is scarce. We are a mile wide and an inch deep. How else do you explain driving a Hummer, Survivor, The Apprentice, American Idol, and on and on…
loading....
I think you have to budget for dating. It’s expensive. Most GRS type posts make a lot of sense for married couples, but for single guys, you have to set aside a couple hundred a month to go out. Dinner dates at home aren’t acceptable first dates. Likewise, most women don’t really want to wander out into parks with a man they just met. Social activities such as bowling, pool, movies, etc, all cost money.
Now you can look at it as a “waste” but humans are social creatures. Just like housing, food, clothing are necessities, you need to budget for going out. It’s quite a bit different than accumulating goods, it’s an activity, not materialism.
On the other note, I agree that when it comes to appearances, simple, quality, classy beats out junky, messy, cluttered, etc. A few pieces of nice furniture, a few year old nice car in good condition, a nice pair of shoes, a couple good pairs of jeans, and a few nice shirts go a long ways.
And on that note, good looks and flashy things may attract someone, but personality is what keeps someone. There’s always someone with better looks and more money around the corner…that’s why you can’t rely on those things.
loading....
Hi. I’m a single, frugal woman. One dating reality is that men want women who look good. But, according to the beauty and fashion industry, to look good costs a ton. Don’t be fooled. Here are my secrets for looking good on a budget:
– Stay fit. I walk everywhere, hike with my dogs, and run. I’m in my mid-thirties and I’m fitter than I was when I was twenty. A good body makes simple clothes look great and attracts men.
– Find a great hairstyle that works with your natural hair type. If you are constantly fighting with your hair to make it a different texture and clour, you are proabably spending a lot of money on salons and products. I have long, thick, straight brown hair. I keep it simple and clean — and only visit a cheap salon for an occasional trim. I think it looks good.
– Women spend a lot of money trying different makeup and skincare products. My advice is to find what works for you and stick to it (with slight adaptations over time). Don’t be influenced by ads that try to convince you that you need the latest and greatest thing. A good moisturizer, a foundation and blush that work with your natural skin tones, a day and an evening lipstick, and black eyeliner and mascara, are all I find necessary. Men are not impressed with the latest shades of eyeshadow, etc.
– In terms of clothes, the same advice applies. Find “your look” and stick to it (with slow adaptations over time). Pick a signature color (mine is red) for a few special pieces. Other than that, a few neutral, well-fitting pieces are all you need (jeans, black pants, black turtleneck, few t-shirts, well-cut jacket) . And a few signature accessories (a great ring, bracelet, or scarf) will spark things up. You will look unique and confident.
Smile, look men in the eye, be kind, and ask questions. These things are what men crave.
loading....
I’ll be the second to concur with Natural Beauty’s entire post #117 as well. Beautiful women don’t come cheap. It takes money for her to look good so when she goes out with you, of course she’s going to expect a bit of wining and dining. She looks good for you so you can impress your friends, you show her a good time. That’s the price you pay. If you don’t want a woman who’s only concerned about what’s in your wallet, take an honest look at the women you’re attracted to. Do they live a frugal lifestyle? If they don’t, why would you expect them to respect yours?
Rika said in post #8:
“Hmmm … I find it interesting that this seems to be far more of a worry for men than for women.”
Maybe men don’t care how big a woman’s bank account is, but personal finance affects dating for both sexes, just in different ways. To be considered beautiful by society’s standards takes money. Try being a frugal, kind, but less-than-average attractive woman and see how many men come beating down your door. If you can’t afford to get your hair done, straight teeth or clear skin it doesn’t matter how good a person you are on the inside. Men are visual, and if they are turned off by what they see on the outside it’s less likely they’ll take the time to get to know what’s on the inside. I’m extremely frugal (maybe I border on cheap) so I’m certainly not seeking a rich man, just one who has his act together (or is getting it together) but I’m no great beauty and I accept that those men simply aren’t after me.
loading....
Like a lot of others have mentioned, I think there is a limit to how frugal you want to be. I think there’s a big difference between being a loser and being frugal. Just as I think there’s a big difference between being frugal and being cheap.
Anything having to do with social behaviors is going to be a toss up anyway. Different people will look at you different ways and their opinions may or may not matter to you. If it means that much to you to impress someone, then take the time (and money) to do so. Otherwise, live the lifestyle you want to and worry less about how others perceive it. It can be a fine line.
loading....
when my husband and i first started dating, he told me that his number one goal was financial independence. that put everything into context. and because we shared that goal, we were on the same page immediately.
over the years other people have obviously been confused by our financial choices, but that’s more entertaining than anything else. and eventually some of them figured it out.
loading....
What you need, is a nice-look sport jacket from Goodwill or something. Keep it in your office as backup. It tidies any look up!
loading....
I’m a sloppy guy and I destroy clothing with stains, rips, anything you can imagine. Thrift stores are great if you can get past the germ thing – after several strange skin infections, I can’t anymore. I’d like to say, Kohls rocks. Nice clothes, cheap when the sales are going. Unlimited $12 khakis at Costco, too. I’m sure I still look like a slob, but I don’t waste a lot of dough to get there.
As far as the ladies go, when I met my wife I was rarely bathing and was wearing outlandish thrift store clothes. Plus had hair to my shoulders. Spring for a movie once in a while, sneak in some snacks and it’s $20 that will prove you aren’t incapable of whimsy. Also, visit the “health center” at your local college for free condoms. (The “hidden cost” of dating!) Don’t skimp here, you could end up exceeding your budget in unimaginable ways.
loading....
If you ask me out I expect you to be prepared to pay. I am not averse to free concerts or other inexpensive venues, but low or no tipping is definitely too cheap for me. Yes, I am making a judgment there.
There are a lot of women out there who fall into the “not cute” category. I am one of them. I have been described as “terrifyingly competent”. Peculiarly enough there are a number of married men who find me absolutely delightful, and we maintain fun friendly relationships. Yes, their wives know, and no we don’t sleep together. Someday I will have to figure out why this situation exists.
Anyway, the man who is brave enough to actually ask me out and get to know me is in for a number of surprises. The man who is brave enough to marry me will be quite happy when we trade financial statements.
My advice to the young men? Figure out what your dating budget is, and get started. And by the way, no matter how cute they are at 25, 50 years old happens to us all eventually. Yourself included.
Character and integrity do count.
loading....
I worked my butt off to pay for my own college and law school education. I had a child right out of law school whose father (my now ex-husband) turned out to be, unfortunately, a 30-year-old teenager. I sat on my ass in the dark eating Ramen for MONTHS to save up for a down payment on a house. (In a rare stroke of luck, I got the down payment together RIGHT before the housing market really got crazy, and ended up with a nice little investment.)
All this is to say? I wasn’t so much into 30something guys with “cool” low-paying jobs, no savings or plans for the future, and no avocation besides hanging out with their buddies. And men my age with roommates and NO damn good explanation as to why? Dealbreaker.
(Now married to gorgeous guy with good job, conservative financial values, living happily ever after with our two new babies and hopefully someday more…)
loading....
Please don’t be too cheap. In the early dating stages, two people just don’t know much about each other, and read a lot into big and small signs. As a woman, if I have to pick you up in /my/ 10-year-old car, that is a bad initial sign. (At least find a way to meet me at the rendezvous.)
Just as you probably don’t want to hear about my failed relationships on a first date, I don’t want to know about how you’re now resolving your sordid past with easy credit. Those are the sort of details that go over better after a few dates. Look good.
If I’m shaving my legs, applying makeup, and wearing my heels, the least you can do is get a haircut and put on the best thing in your closet. It’s worth spending a little more money or time to have nice clothes that you can mix and match for work, dates, interviews, etc. Buy the best quality you can reasonably afford. If you don’t have a Bloomingdale’s budget, mix up some Macy’s clearance – Old Navy – Filene’s Basement – TJ Maxx finds. If you’re taking a date home for the first time, make sure it’s kind of clean and has some furniture, maybe even a little style. You’d be surprised what you can find for the home at yard sales in upper-crust neighborhoods.
My best tip is that you can cover up a lot of potential negatives by being a thoughtful guy. (You’re broke? Eh, not great. But if you make my favorite dinner, help me with my laundry, take care of me when I’m home sick, and/or remember not to call me Thursday nights when LOST is on, I’ll propose to you AND pay for the wedding;)
Annoying part with date tips:
You shouldn’t have break out the credit card and say goodbye to your hard-earned new FICO score to date. There are some ways to do dating right while not spending as much money (and not look cheap):
You can go to a cheap movie without having to see “Bee Movie” at the dollar theater. If there are colleges or museums in your area, they often have indie/foreign film showings for little or nothing. In Atlanta, the High Museum shows movies on Saturdays – $5 for non-members, $4 for members. You show that you have culture and save some money. Buy a coffee or dessert later and discuss. $20 max.
Take a girl to lunch, not dinner. You can often afford a nicer restaurant at lunchtime. Side benefits: Lunch is informal (save $ on dry cleaning/wardrobe), and it’s easier to make excuses if you need to get out of dodge (i.e. “got to go back to work” or “the cable guy is supposed to come over at 2.”) Avoid the overpriced desserts, and take her for ice cream or gelato afterwards. Depending on the place, 30-40 dollars well spent for lunch, tip and dessert. (And anyway, you spend half of it on yourself. Tell me you have at least 30 dollars?)
If you’re book people, go to the bookstore for a reading. Heck, even buy her the book if she likes it. It’s a date, a thoughtful gift (we love a thoughtful gift), and it cost you $14 (for a mid-list paperback) or $25 (for a fancy hardcover.)
I hope this helps. Good luck finding the frugal (not cheap) woman of your dreams!
loading....