“What’s the safest possible thing that I can do with my money?” wonders Afroblanco over at Ask Metafilter:
I take bearishness to an extreme. Having witnessed the 2000 tech crash, I have no faith in the stock market or the US economy. I keep all of my money (USD) in a savings account. However, with the recent financial turmoil, I have a few questions:
- Is it conceivable for the FDIC to fail?
- If so, is there a place where I can put my money that will be safer than a savings account?
- What’s the safest, most risk-free way for me to save money and not get killed by inflation and the tanking US dollar?
- If there is a safe way for me to save money and not be punished by inflation and the depreciating dollar, is there a way that I can do this without having to stress out and micromanage my finances? I don’t want to be checking the finance page and making adjustments every day.
Even though I follow finance news, I’ve never done any investing or money management other than socking money away in my savings account. I’m a n00b, I admit it.
Afroblanco is willing to forego potential market gains so long as he does not lose money. He is risk-averse. He’s not alone. A rocky economy makes many people nervous. You can assess your risk tolerance with one of several online tools:
- Rutgers investment risk tolerance quiz
- MSN Money risk tolerance quiz (and an article on the subject)
- Kiplinger: Test your risk tolerance
If your risk tolerance is low, then the stock market may not be right for you. You should consider less volatile investments until you’ve researched the market’s historical performance. In response to Afroblanco’s question, AskMetafilter member Pastabagel wrote:
The best thing you can do with your money is invest it in yourself of your children, if you have any. Go to school, get new training, start a business, etc. After that, the next best thing to do with it is to eliminate your debt (excluding mortgage). Typically people have formulae for determining how much savings you should spend to pay down debt, but I think you’d be a happier person if you just eliminated all credit card debt, car payments, etc. you have outstanding.
Barring those things, here’s the basic story:
Your money in a savings account is insured up to $100,000, but earns little interest and may actually result in your losing money to inflation. Certificates of Deposit pay more, but you can’t touch your money for the duration of the CD.
Bonds are safe, but you have to know which ones to buy, what to watch for, etc. And bonds fluctuate in price.
The rule-of-thumb is that the more interest, or yield, something offers, the more risk is involved. Interest is essentially what is exchanged for you risking your money. Also, low-risk equals low-reward. But you sound like you want something extremely safe, so I’m not going to preach to you about the S&P 500’s long-term performance.
Gold and commodities are not so good, because while a two-year chart looks great now, a two-year chart two years from now might look like a nightmare. Gold lost $100/ounce since Monday — about 10%. Did anybody call that? So not exactly a rock solid investment.
You want safe, here is safe:
What you really want is some kind of short-term bond mutual fund (the “short-term” refers to the kind of bonds it holds). Mutual funds are great because you can put in and take out your money whenever you want, unlike bonds and CDs. I would recommend VFSTX from Vanguard. It has a decent yield (which is sort of like interest) and also can appreciate in value. This particular fund has had one down year in the last 24 years, and that year it was only down 0.08%.
In the alternative, you can get a fund that invests in inflation-protected treasuries (TIPS), like VIPSX from Vanguard.
These two funds are very much buy-and-forget. You talk about the economic turmoil, VFSTX fluctuated less than 1% from October to January (when the shit really hit the fan) and VIPSX fluctuated by no more than about 4%. They are very very safe, but won’t appreciate much, but it sounds like that would be okay for you. Keep in mind that these funds also pay you interest along the way, which is typically reinvested, so the charts you see on Yahoo!, which track price only, don’t show you the full story.
When you pick a mutual fund, however, you need to be very careful because different fund companies fund often charge expenses, loads and fees, which are basically ways for the fund company to take your money out of your investment. Vanguard has built its entire company and every one of the hundreds of funds they manage on the principle of no-load, and rock-bottom expense ratios. All of the money I cannot afford to lose for the rest of my life I keep there. This is not a slick Wall Street operation — Vanguard will collapse when the world ends, not a moment sooner.
The people who started and who ran that company are very old-school personalities — they personally live frugally, invest very conservatively, and their business model is based on lifetime relationships with their investors, not on clever financial wizardry. You don’t see Vanguard people on TV as much as Warren Buffet because these people aren’t the type to have publicists. This is the place where your crusty great-grandfather who grew up in the Depression would keep his money. Slow and temperate. They also offer very low-cost financial advisory services, which you might need if/when you ever get married, have kids, etc and don’t feel like trying to figure out how to buy life insurance.
On a psychological note, though, I would encourage you to read The Millionaire Next Door. The book is not really about personal finance, though it does discuss it a little. What the book will do is reset your social attitudes about money and wealth, and how wealth is accumulated.
These recommendations are appropriate for somebody who is very conservative and risk-averse. If you’re more worried about losing money than eager to gain it, then consider these tips. Via e-mail, Pastabagel suggested that those with slightly more risk tolerance should consider a total-market index fund (such as VTSMX) as part of an IRA.
Pastabagel also notes — correctly — that it’s difficult to answer a question like, “How should I invest?” The answer depends more on psychology than finance. “The only answer,” he writes, “is to take as much risk as you can stand before you start losing sleep over it.”
This article is about Investing, Psychology Monday, 24th March 2008 (by J.D. Roth)


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March 24th, 2008 at 8:16 am
If the FDIC fails (and anything is conceivable) then we are all in a heep of trouble and our money might be the least of our concerns. But the more likely scenario is that a particular bank would fail and the FDIC would bail you out - it might take up to 5 years to get the full 100% of what you had in the failed bank from the FDIC. They tend to pay in increments, rather than a lump sum payment - you might get 60% the first year and so on. So keep that in mind. Your best bet though is to keep less than the qualifying amount in an FDIC insured bank. When you reach that amount open up another account in another bank and fill it up.
As for investing for the low risk why not an index or etf that follows the entire market (either US or total int’l & domestic)? Cause if the total market fails we’re all screwed and money will be the least of our concerns. If you are low risk only put about 20% of your portfolio in it. The rest can be CDs, bonds, & cash. Also if you are that conservative I’d recommend paying off ALL your debt, including your mortgage. The rate of return you’ll receive on conservative investments will not trump your interest rate - so pay it off as soon as feasible. Besides what is more low risk than owning everything you have? It’s the ultimate hedge against disaster.
March 24th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Along these same lines - I was just in the Caymans for a couple weeks and started thinking. The USD to KYD exchange rate is pretty static. With all of the nightmare scenarios and prognostications on the possible collapse of our economy and our currency, would it be prudent to put some “emergency” (six month living expenses for loss of job, etc) in a Cayman account converted to KYD? Assuming that the USD fails, the exchange rate would only swing to my advantage. Assuming the USD doesn’t fail, the exchange rate seems to have been fairly static over the last several years anyway. Thoughts?
March 24th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Warning, bond funds and bonds are not the same thing. Depending on what happens with interest rates the value of the bonds in a bond fund can go up or down. If you buy a bond and hold it to maturity you know exactly what your return will be. If you buy US Treasury bonds you have the full faith of the US Government behind them. You can buy treasury bonds directly from the US government so there are no fees.
That said, whatever you invest in the interest rate needs to be high enough to keep up with inflation. Otherwise you are guaranteeing your savings will slowly bleed away.
March 24th, 2008 at 8:55 am
An excellent article. I consider myself bearish, and have been curious about Vanguard since JD mentioned something about their founder (John Bogle?) a few posts back. I watched an interview with the guy and saw him on CNBC a few times, and he does indeed seem extremely conservative. Vanguard’s a non-profit, which is interesting to some degree.
Again, great article…you read my mind
March 24th, 2008 at 8:55 am
The safest investments lose money because they dont keep up with inflation. Doesn’t seem very safe.
fortune favors the bold
March 24th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Of course the FDIC will fail if the system is hit bad. It doesn’t have the assets to truly cover massive claims. But that’s the nature of our banking system these days. When demand deposits are permitted to be loaned out despite the supposed right of the depositor to demand all those funds at anytime, you have an inherently unstable system. (And of course profitable one for banks as they get to pretend like they have more assets than they do.) Now if you think for a second that the risk inherent in the advantages banks gain under a fractional reserve system were insured against by the FDIC doing what the banks don’t do (i.e., keeping reserves on par with demand deposits) you are smoking something.
Now, will the FDIC fail? Probably not in the way that most people think. What you will probably see is Fed/conglomerate action like what you saw with the Bear Sterns fiasco. And there will be some combination of further risk transfer to the federal government (i.e., the tax payer) and inflation of the currency.
As for the commentor in the original post, he seems to be using “safe” to mean “perfectly secure”. The answer is there is no safe way to save money. There are only ways that carry more or less risk.
March 24th, 2008 at 9:08 am
I can understand your caution about the stock markets right now. It’s not easy to see big drops in a few months. That’s part of the nature of the stock market though. You can limit your volatility by putting some money in bonds and some in stocks. When buying stocks you can use a strategy called dollar cost averaging. When you buy small amounts of stock at a time say each month, your risks of paying too much for stocks are greatly diminished.
Also, do you believe all businesses in the world are going to do diminish and eventually fail for the rest of your life? I don’t think that is likely- yes we are in for some rough years, but the rough times are when the bargains are to be had!
You should also be aware that even if an investment never goes down in dollar value, it may lose purchasing power due to inflation. If your investments are not earning more than the rate of inflation then you are losing purchasing power!
Finally don’t forget taxes- if your returns match inflation exactly but they are taxed you are still losing money! Tax shelter all you can using an IRA or 401K account.
March 24th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Just wanted to point out something that the answer on AskMetafilter mentioned: “Bonds are safe, but you have to know which ones to buy, what to watch for, etc.” Bonds are not safe, you’re buying the debt of a company that *could* fail. If it did, it would default on your bond (meaning they would not pay you the interest *or* your principal). You rank higher than stockholders when liquidation time comes for the company, but the likelihood of getting back all your principal is slim.
March 24th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Uhm, JD, I’m a little worried about you exposing yourself to copyright problems like this… to be honest, I know nothing about what is and isn’t OK in terms of copy-and-paste blog posts, but that’s an awfully long quote. I suspect you should be just posting portions of the quotes and discussing your thoughts on it, and including a link to the original if someone wants to read more. I really like your blog and have been subscribing for almost a year now, I’d hate to see you get in trouble for posting entire quotes like this.
I appreciate the advice in the post none-the-less. I’m fairly risk averse myself - if you can’t tell by the content of my comment
Thanks!
March 24th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Im surprised at the amount of risk aversion around these days: I cant believe confidence is really that low. Im not talking all money in stocks, but people all over the place pulling out for bonds…unless you are near retirement, it seems to be a waste of potential to me.
March 24th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Argh. Even at that length, those quotations constitute fair use. They’re fully acknowledged, no song lyrics or poems are involved (you can quote only a line or two of those), and the purpose of the quotation is to build a scholarly or creative work. So, exit that worry…
And on to OMG, will the FDIC fail? There’s a thought to bring on hyperventilation! It surpasses worrying about: if that happens, we’ll all have lots bigger problems than figuring out where our savings went. And if you seriously believe it’s going to happen, then it would be wise to build an emergency cache of food, water, barterable goods, weapons, and ammunition.
Some time ago, when I was faced with conserving funds in an estate for which I was executor, my financial advisor recommended Vanguard’s Short-Term Corporate Bond Fund (STC). The name has been changed to Short-Term Investment Grade Fund. It worked so successfully to preserve principal as disbursements were made that I invested a chunk of my own emergency fund. It doesn’t make huge amounts of money, but it more than keeps up with inflation and seems to be relatively safe; by and large, when stocks go down, STC goes up or at least holds its own. That might be something to look into.
But Afroblanco would be well advised to remember the old saw: Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Keeping your savings in a bank or credit union savings account is about like stuffing it into the mattress–its value will drop steadily against inflation.
March 24th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Greg wrote: Uhm, JD, I’m a little worried about you exposing yourself to copyright problems like this… to be honest, I know nothing about what is and isn’t OK in terms of copy-and-paste blog posts, but that’s an awfully long quote.
I appreciate the concern. It’s a valid one!
I’ve been doing my best to abide by copyright laws lately, and this is another instance of doing so. I cleared this usage both with Matt Haughey (who runs Metafilter, and who reads GRS), and with Pastabagel (who also reads GRS). They gave their approval.
On another note: though the current state of the economy does give me some worries, I think that the original poster at AskMetafilter is way too cautious. I worry, like many of you, that the moves he wants to make would simply lead to the erosion of his capital.
On the other hand, I have the opposite of risk aversion. As an upcoming post will demonstrate, I’m willing to take unnecessary risks.
March 24th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Eric Tyson’s Investing for Dummies suggests low-fee short-term bond index funds, such as Vanguard’s, for money you need in the next 5 to 10 years - if you’re feeling risky. Or a low-fee Money Market account if you’re not.
Our emergency fund is split between our credit union’s savings account (eg easiest place to transfer from checking), Vanguard’s Money Market, and Vanguard’s short-term bond index fund.
We also use some more aggressive Vanguard funds for retirement: Balanced Index Fund (60% stocks, 40% bonds), a small-cap fund, an international fund, and a tax-managed large-cap fund. Note this is long-term investing: we won’t even start withdrawing from those accounts for another 2 to 3 decades.
March 24th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Am I right in thinking that if the FDIC fails then paper money won’t be worth what it’s printed on anyways? That kind of leads to buying precious metals and waiting for the apocalypse to strike, but still….
March 24th, 2008 at 11:45 am
I know that real wisdom says you need to be taking care of your investments, but I wonder if the “invest it and forget it” approach might not be useful for the anxious.
My husband is VERY risk averse, so all of “his” money is in fully-insured CDs (when he hits 100,000 on one he goes to another bank…).
BUT he’s also getting rich slowly because he has never really believed in the money in his retirement account — it’s taken out of his paycheck automatically and invested in a stock fund and an annuity (TIAA-Cref) that he signed up for on day one of his employment, and he just files the quarterly reports and continues to live on his “real” income, his take home pay (including saving some of it every month). Things go up and down in the retirement account, but it has never felt “real” to him, so he does not stress out over those funds the way he would if he were an active investor, and he’s never messed with them — they started out 50/50 in the annuity and stock fund and as things in the market change the percentages have fluctuated, but not tend to even back up over time.
Meanwhile, it may be true that he’s losing money via inflation, but he has accumulated a lot of money in those CDs… and a managed retirement fund might have earned more but the choice he made to invest and ignore hasn’t been a disaster…
March 24th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Here are some more ideas:
1) I-bonds - you are guaranteed a tiny percentage above inflation. Of course the guarantee is by the government.
2) Annuities - I hate these because the fees are so huge. But you might want to look into these, too.
3) 401K with company matching - all that extra free money can cover a lot of high fees and market plummeting.
4) Diversify - Get some government bonds, some municipal bonds, some company bonds, some CDs, some savings accounts, some money in your mattress/safety deposit box. Then if one bank fails or or one house burns down, etc., you still have access to some other money. Also putting a small amount in stocks (even as little as 10% of your portfolio) can greatly reduce overall volatility. In your situation, I’d put 10% in a total market index fund or in a combination of that and an international index find.
5) More diversification - Pay off your debt. Buy a house and pay it off–now you’re only stuck with taxes and insurance and so long as you can pay that, you’ll always have a place to live. Buy canned goods when they go on sale.
6) If you have no faith in the US economy, you might want to make plans in case you want to leave the country. Invest in a passport, for example.
March 24th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Gold, plain and simple. Gold was currency before there was currency. For you to lose the money in a savings account, our entire economy would have to collapse, including the government.
That being said, if our economy pulls an inverse flip and our money is worthless, your skills will be more valuable. Use your savings to gain some skills that would be valuable in a barter society.
Given that option, I’ll take my chances in the stock market. If the world comes to an end, I’ve got my Eagle Scout skills to rely on.
Bonus: Get some bow-and-arrow lessons. I’ll gladly help you start a fire if you can catch me some dinner.
March 24th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
OK, you guys are scaring me!
March 24th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Most people have the wrong idea about gold. You don’t buy gold to make 10% or 20% or whatever. You buy gold bullion as insurance against a total collapse of the financial system. In other words, it’s more like a concrete bunker and canned food type of investment than a stock type of investment. If you’re looking for short-term returns from gold, you’re likely to be disappointed because it is a volatile commodity. Its long-term trend, however, is clear.
That said, I did expect a correction in gold. I suspected that would happen since late January when all the ducks were lined up in a row for gold and suddenly lots of people turned into gold bulls. My contrarian nature then led me to be wary. I just wasn’t sure of the timing so I raised cash to buy in again when it is lower.
March 24th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
ACK!
TIPS is terribly tax INEFFICIENT. You pay tax on inflation as well as your yield premium (if any). Ouchies.
I am all for the general advice, but note that TIPS and TIPS Funds (like VIPSX) should be held in a tax-advantaged account like an IRA, 401k, etc.
March 24th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
We invested in silver as a hedge against inflation, and so far it’s held steady. As the dollar decreases, silver retains the buying power lost by cash. Fiat currency is doomed, so I would advise against keeping money in the bank long term. Put much of it into silver (gold is very high), which is at historic lows compared to gold, and will soon be driven up in price by huge demands.
March 24th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
The old saw is that if you don’t take risks then you will not have enough for retirement. Everyone is risk adverse when the market is going down and risk immune if all you can see is the upside. If you don’t loose your money, then you don’t have to take as much risk.
In fact, what is often overlooked is the power of compound interest. You can get some idea of the magnificance of this idea if you divide an interest rate into the number 72. If you could make 7 percent interest, then your money would double in a little more than 10 years. If you have credit card debt and you are paying 18 percent, then your debt would double in four years. No wonder there is such a big business in credit cards!
Safe bonds are the low risk alternative. Compound interest provides an income stream if you need the income, and growth if you reinvest the income. Bond funds work, but individual bonds are better because they have a due date when your invested dollars are returned. There is more uncertainty with funds.
Muni bonds are for anyone in the 25% bracket or higher. Keepin your money in short-term CDs is OK, but it is not the best solution because you may end up reinvesting at a much lower rate.
If you want to know more about bonds, including an explanation of how bonds yield as much if not more than stocks (what your broker will not tell you), then read my book called Bonds:The Unbeaten Path to Secure Investment Growth (Bloomberg Press, 2007.)Learn how to build an all bond portfolio, the smart way to grow and protect your money.
Bond Guru
March 24th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I think everyone here has missed the best hedge against financial collapse, which is arable land with clean water. If Afroblanco can picture the sky falling, he should scout out a few acres of land that has a well, a woodlot, and soil to till. Invest future gains in fruit trees, berry bushes, and solar panels for the house, then into chickens and a cow.
Eventually the lifestyle will be completely self sustaining and impervious to financial markets, good or bad. There are a ton of people out there who are doing this as a hedge against $200/barrel oil, which raises the price not just of transportation, but processed foods, water production, and nearly everything else we can think of. If the s**t really hits the fan, would you rather have 100,000 in a “safe” treasury bond or a regular supply of food and water?
March 24th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Oh, boy, we would have a tiny fraction of our savings and retirement funds if we had kept all of our money in savings accounts over the years. There’s a psychology of fear thing going on there. You manage your funds among different levels of risk throughout your life and change them as needed. We recently moved some of our money to lower risk areas, but certainly not all of it. While we certainly need to heed concerns regarding the U.S. economy, we don’t need to let ourselves become terrified and start acting hastily out of fear. If you have money in reserve, assets, etc., why keep watching the bad news about the economy and worrying about it? Worry is simply a false means of thinking we’re doing something about an issue of concern. Just proceed with your existing plans and make slight alterations as necessary. And, please don’t take all your money out of the bank and start stashing it in hidden spots in the house. A friend, whose late father did not trust banks, has still not found all the money his dad stashed. Most amounts he’s found have been several hundred dollars at a time. However, some were several thousand and one find was $30,000 cash in his dad’s toolbox. I just keep thinking what that money could have turned into had it been invested or even put in a savings acct.
March 24th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I just started reading this blog this weekend and greatly enjoy it.
This article does a great job of laying out the risk of such a conservative investment approach: http://www.efficientmarket.ca/article/Stocks-Or-Bonds
Because I am a very cautious investor and like most people worried about the market, I conducted a bunch of research lately (the same thing I do every time I fly to convince myself it is safe). And, from my research it seems that the safest portfolio falls somewhere around 50/50 stocks and bonds - with 60/40 maybe being the ideal (which interestingly enough - is the mix in the Vanguard Star Fund VGSTX).
I then looked at what should make up my stock and bond holdings. I studied Buffett, Jim Rogers, the investment manager of the Harvard Endowment, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Holdings and tried to look beyond the popular media interpretation of their investment styles. What I learned was that contrary to what popular media said, these folks had very diverse portfolios (not concentrated portfolios). Buffett owns a candy company, a brick company, a carpet company, a utility company, a manufactured home company, a furniture store, shares of coke, insurance companies, and so on. In other words his portfolio is very diverse, including all kinds of bonds in his insurance companies.
It also seemed that many of their investments were purchased as long term holdings.
So my conclusions, pick a mix number, e.g., 50/50; fill it with a wide range of investments (or pick a fund like Vanguard Star); and hold it for a long time.
Take care.
March 24th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Precious metals are always a good hedge against inflation, as rstlne stated so well. It’s for the long haul as the dollar loses value. Just remember that once upon a time, a $20 gold piece was equal to $20 bill. Now that $20 gold piece is worth in excess of $900. How much is that $20 bill worth? In the past few years, we’ve seen it’s buying power diminish. Look to invest 5-10% of your assets in precious metals.
If you invest in paper, just get a good diversification. Set a percentage value on each asset type (stocks, bonds, cash equivalents, etc) and just remember to REBALANCE when one of those assets exceeds the percentage value you set. That will protect you from a crash in one of those asset types.
I also like the idea of ‘living off the grid’ in the event of a full blown economic collapse, as trb alludes to. For now, you can probably just learn the basics of it, and discover that it is possible to do even in this day and age.
March 24th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
This post has gone completely over my head
I think I’ll keep my money under my mattress.
March 24th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
I love it — you’re a tease: “As an upcoming post will demonstrate, I’m willing to take unnecessary risks.” Looking forward to the post.
March 24th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
The old saw is that if you don’t take risks then you will not have enough for retirement. Everyone is risk adverse when the market is going down and risk immune if all you can see is the upside. If you don’t loose your money, then you don’t have to take as much risk.
In fact, what is often overlooked is the power of compound interest. You can get some idea of the magnificance of this idea if you divide an interest rate into the number 72. If you could make 7 percent interest, then your money would double in a little more than 10 years. If you have credit card debt and you are paying 18 percent, then your debt would double in four years. No wonder there is such a big business in credit cards!
Safe bonds are the low risk alternative. Compound interest provides an income stream if you need the income, and growth if you reinvest the income. Bond funds work, but individual bonds are better because they have a due date when your invested dollars are returned. There is more uncertainty with funds.
Muni bonds are for anyone in the 25% bracket or higher. Keepin your money in short-term CDs is OK, but it is not the best solution because you may end up reinvesting at a much lower rate.
If you want to know more about bonds, including an explanation of how bonds yield as much if not more than stocks (what your broker will not tell you), then read my book called Bonds:The Unbeaten Path to Secure Investment Growth (Bloomberg Press, 2007.) Learn how to build an all bond portfolio, the smart way to grow and protect your money.
Bond Guru
March 24th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
@Tim (#2): The Cayman Dollar has a fixed exchange rate to the US Dollar: 1 KY$ = 1.2 USD. See the WIkipedia page on the Cayman dollar.
@rstlne (#19): Gold isn’t necessarily useful. You can look at what happened in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina to see what happens in a failed economy: barter and basic supplies go far, and gold isn’t very useful.
@Afroblanco: It really depends on your definition of “safe.” A CD might be considered “safe” from the perspective that it won’t lose principal, but it can be extremely “unsafe” from the perspective that it loses value when compared to inflation.
This is one of the saddest posts I have seen in a long time. I really shouldn’t let it bother me, though, because it doesn’t affect me one bit if Afroblanco pulls out of the market. I just don’t understand why so many people are so risk averse - risk is the only path to reward! You can’t get the reward without the risk, so perhaps the risk averse people just aren’t interested in the reward - I don’t know, and I don’t get it.
March 24th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
So Daniel and others - help me out here - in the fixed exchange relationship between KYD/USD - what happens if the USD completely tanks? I would assume if the rate changed, in that case, it would change for the better (assuming you had KYD). Right?
March 24th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
I am like our friend … very risk-averse; yet I have become rich by understanding that it is actually SAFER to invest than not.
He is better off BUYING the bank [stocks] than putting his money in the bank … and the risk is about the same - when was the last time the Feds let a major bank fail?!
March 24th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Along the lines of Kellie’s comment, if the FDIC could fail the currency is shot and it would be valuable to own metals. I happen to think the most useful form would be bullets though. A US without its fiat currency sounds like a dangerous place.
Personally, I have very little fear of the currency failing.
March 24th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
It’s not a good idea to bet on the FDIC to back you up even if banks fail. Reason being that the fed legally has a total of 100 (ONE HUNDRED YEARS!!!) years to reimburse you for lost funds deposited in FDIC banks. FDIC is literally meaningless. Most of us will be dead before we ever see a dime of reimbursement from the FDIC. Translation… if you have more than $100k and don’t want to mess with stocks/investments or money market stuff in the US, then I’d suggest putting your money off shore or buying a whole lot of gold and burying it somewhere
March 25th, 2008 at 4:30 am
@Tim, that’s a good question. Wikipedia’s article on fixed exchange rates does not cover that topic.
@AJC, my understanding is that banks actually fail rather frequently… it’s just not publicized. The Feds will go in, doing enough to keep things running while they search for a buyer.
@Don, same here - little fear of it happening. Similarly, I see little point in worrying about it since there’s not much we can do to: 1- plan for it, and 2- survive it. But yeah, I agree that bullets are a good investment for TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI situations.
March 25th, 2008 at 10:37 am
What is the advantage to bonds/bond funds? I have retirement funds in 401K accounts that are about 50/50 stocks and bonds, but I’m a REALLY conservative investor with my normal “savings”. I keep my regular savings in jumbo CD’s and a Money Market at my credit union and getting 4-5% returns. When looking at returns on bonds/bond funds, I don’t see them doing any better than that, so why are some recommmending the funds as opposed to just sticking the money in a CD? Am I missing something?
March 25th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Rondondo,
The person recommending the funds may feel that you could earn more without taking on significantly more risk due to portfolio diversification in credit quality, issuers and maturity range offered by the funds.
CDs are usually short-term. You are doing yourself a disservice if you keep all your money short-term. That may look conservative, but when the Fed drops short-term interest rates then the rate at which you can reinvest also drops. It is much more conservative to have a bond ladder that would give you some reinvestment protection. How would you like to reinvest at 1% like Japan for 10 years or at 0% like the current TIPS that have a negative return. That is real pain!
People tend to discount reinvestment risk. They think: ‘Oh! If we have a big inflation then my money is short-term.’ They don’t realize how much compounding of interest you lose out on by doing that.
Individual bonds are better than funds in most cases because they come due. That means you get back your invested principal plus interest every six months.
Bond fund yields are not directly comparable to individual bonds because they never come due. That means that funds give you some form of current yield that really just describes cash flow, not compounded yield. Funds purchase high coupon bonds so that the cash flow is more abundant and the yield looks higher, but you might be just eating some of the principal along with the interest.
If you are in the 25% marginal bracket or more, then munis would be best for you. If you are in a lower marginal tax bracket, then safe alternatives to the CD might be Treasury bonds or certain agency bonds. Go to treasurydirect.org to check out Treasury offerings. At that website you will also see double-E and I-bonds. They are all quite conservative.
Read my book, Bonds: The Unbeaten Path to Secure Investment Growth (Bloomberg Press, 2007) for information about these alternatives, including bond funds, and bank and brokered CDs.
Learn how to build an all-bond portfolio, the smart way to grow and protect your money.
Bond Guru
March 28th, 2008 at 4:27 am
I’ve met Jack Bogle in person in Philadelphia at the Union League. This man is a living legend and a master investing and protecting money for the long haul.
I would highly recommend reading “The Little Book of Common Sense Investing The Only Way to Guarantee Your Fair Share of Stock Market Returns” by John C Bogle. If you’re risk tolerance is low (like mine), you’ll appreciate what Jack has to say about Vanguard as a company and Index Funds in general. After reading this book, I could not see how everyone wouldn’t want to invest in Vanguard. They are a great company and a great company to work for (I have friends that work there).
Here’s an Amazon link to that book for those interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Little-Book-Common-Sense-Investing/dp/0470102101/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206703604&sr=8-1
March 31st, 2008 at 8:25 am
I think that even if you are risk-averse, you have to have at least some exposure to the stock market. If you have 10% of your portfolio in stocks the most that you can lose is 10% if the market goes to zero ( very unlikely to happen). Even if that happens, you will recoup the losses in 2years assuming that you earn at least 5% interest.
Actually earning 5% interest these days is not impossible. There are several rewards checking programs out there which have certain limitation, but are a good alternative for severely risk averse investors.
Yet another strategy could be to buy a stock and CD allocation that would ensure that your principal will be safe at the end of the period while assuming some risk as well.
My bank https://www.bankmw.com/Rates.aspx offers a 3.75% 10 year CD. If you have $10,000 to invest you could buy the 10 year CD for $6920 now and invest the remaining $3080 in stocks. At the end of the 10 year period you will have at least $10,000 and you will have the stocks for free ( you will also get dividends and hopefully capital gains so you will be well ahead of the game).
May 27th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Just remember that every investment is a risk. Even when the only thing you are trying to beat is inflation.
Choose an investment that will provide you with the best options available to you. Some risks are worth taking weighing your options are always a good thing to do. This is a great article I found it very interesting.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
If you want to understand different investment strategies using bonds, bond funds and other fixed income investments, read my book BONDS: The Unbeaten Path to Secure Investment Growth.
There is also a chapter on how to incorporate bonds in your financial plan, and another chapter with case studies of how bonds and bond funds can be used to advantage.
A decision to invest solely in bonds can enable you to sleep better and thrive financially. This is how we invest our own funds.
If you read our explanation in BONDS: the Unbeaten Path to Secure Investment Growth, you will understand why this investment strategy continues to pay off.