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Recently in the Get Rich Slowly discussion forums, SouthernGent posted a perplexing problem. Here’s his story:
My wife and I have been debt-free for over three years now, meaning no credit card debt and only our mortgage. When I ran our credit report the other day (which I do annually), I noticed three cards under my wife’s name with balances of $2,000, $3,000, and $12,000. This shocked and worried me for obvious reasons.
My wife said she did not open them, so she asked her mom and sister. They admitted to opening the balances under my wife’s name! My wife was still receiving credit card offers at her mom’s house, so they took advantage of the offers and of my wife’s excellent credit.
They have been making payments and have never been late. (Yet.) We want them out of my wife’s name ASAP, but therein lies the issue. They can’t open any credit cards in order to transfer the balances into their names, plus my wife thinks if I report this as fraud/stolen ID, they will go to jail. She doesn’t want this to happen due to our four year old niece.
I really want to get this resolved, but am at a loss how to handle it. (They also really need financial advice/counseling, but that can wait.)
Stories like this highlight the need to check your credit report regularly. You are legally entitled to receive one free report from each of the three credit bureaus every year. You can obtain your free credit report from AnnualCreditReport.com.
By checking his credit report, SouthernGent was able to catch suspicious activity. But what does he do now? If this had been a random stranger stealing his wife’s credit, the answer would be obvious. But the fact that the identity theft was committed by family members adds a nasty wrinkle.
During the discussion in the forum, Googoo pointed to an article at the Identity Theft Resource Center. “When You Personally Know the Identity Thief” explains the options, addresses frequently asked questions, and provides some letters for addressing the situation. From the introduction:
Identity theft is a complex crime at best. When the impostor is someone known to you, the impact of the crime magnifies dramatically. How do I prosecute my own mother? What kind of father would I be if I allowed the police to arrest my son? Should I practice “tough love?” What will the other family members think of me? What will my friends say?
You basically have three choices:
- Proceed as if this was a regular case of id theft:
- Make a police report (this is not the same as pressing charges against the person).
- Cooperate with law enforcement’s investigation.
- Working with the creditors to see if a resolution can be made without police involvement.
- Paying the debt and living with the consequences.
This guide will address some of these choices and possible solutions.
Have you had your identity stolen before? By a family member or a friend? How did you handle it? Would you do anything differently if it happened again? Do you have any advice for SouthernGent?
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April 18th, 2008 at 5:22 am
Wow, that’s pretty low. I would be *pissed*. SouthernGent and his wife should not be obligated at all to pay that debt. Try option #2 and have them talk to the creditors. If that doesn’t work, file a police report. Then promptly disown everyone but the four year old niece. And sign up for the no junk mail registry.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:28 am
I would give my mom and sister one month to get the debt out of my name. If they failed to do so I would call the police.
Family or not, the consequences of their actions belong to you right now. Right now YOU are $17,000 in debt! That is the price you will pay in addition to destroying your relationship with these people.
As for the niece, this child will grow up learning that it is okay to do things like this. I think that would be more harmful in the long run.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:34 am
That’s awful…
April 18th, 2008 at 5:35 am
@LM: SouthernGent and his wife are not obligated at all to pay the debt - they are victims of ID theft.
@SouthernGent: Sorry to sound cold, but if I were you I would report it. Your mother-in-law and sister-in-law are criminals, plain and simple - there is simply no other way to put it. Would you not report it if a murderer were in your family? Or a pedophile? Or a (fill in the blank)? I would report any of that.
Perhaps there is room here for mercy, but IMHO that would only be if they were to transfer the debt out of your wife’s name and into their own names, but as you say that is not possible.
Regardless of what else you do, I would highly recommend you freeze your wife’s credit IMMEDIATELY so that the outlaws….er … inlaws … can do no further damage.
I’m very sorry to hear of this - it is a terrible thing that you are going through.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:37 am
I saw this all the time, unfortunately, when I worked for the credit card company. I can tell you that, fraud or not, unless a police report is filed, his wife will be held fully liable for the debt and any consequences of nonpayment. The view is that unless you are willing to file the report (and open yourself up to prosecution for perjury if you are in fact lying), that the debt is either yours or you approved of it.
While you could try to have them pay off the debt without filing a report. in my experience most of the time when an informal agreement was made to have the people who actually opened and used the cards pay the debt, payment stopped in short order. Now that his wife knows about the debts, there is no obligation for her mom and sister to pay the debt to prevent discovery. Cold, but so is stealing a relative’s credit.
If it were me, hard as it is, I would file the police report. If nothing is done, there are no negative consequences; what’s to stop these women from opening credit in the niece’s name? And is his wife willing to sacrifice SouthernGent’s and her credit, reputation, and finances? If no police report is filed, and the debt goes to collections, they will be on the hook for seventeen thousand dollars. Enough to make it worthwhile, if it comes to it, for the credit card companies to file suit.
Odds are, from my experience, jail time will not be an option, especially if they are cooperative and willing to make restitution. Fines and probation are more likely. It’s difficult, but you have to protect yourself and your spouse.
And it goes without saying that they both need to institute a credit freeze on their credit reports - no other accounts can then be opened without contacting them personally.
Best of luck to you.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:55 am
Any crime that is committed that can directly influence one’s life should be reported immediately. I would report my own family if they were doing illegal activities that warranted action. This situation may never be resolved due to complicated circumstances. First, the mother-in-law and sister-in-law know the womans social security number. Second, the family has done little to stop this kind of action. I would take action immediately to put them in jail where they belong.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:00 am
Wow.
The NERVE of some people. I bet they bought her Christmas presents on those accounts. Wow. That’s a lot of debt to rack up in one year (if it wasn’t on last year’s credit report).
I would file a police report, like JD states above, because I’d want my credit, just like if my car was damaged, I’d want the proof if it was not my fault. I’d call the credit companies and tell them what happened and provide the police report to them for their records.
I would even go so far as to file a claim in small claims court and get their wages garnished. Usually small claims would allow you to represent yourself to avoid legal fees for both parties. The filing fees are relatively small.
If they actually NEEDED the money for a real emergency, they would have asked his wife for the loan, not steal her identity and credit reputation to rack up debt (for apparently no reason).
I WOULD DEFINITELY MAKE SURE TO CHANGE MY ADDRESS (again!) TO MAKE SURE NO MORE CREDIT OFFERS GO TO THAT ADDRESS TO AVOID FUTURE PROBLEMS/TEMPTATIONS!
My dad has identity protection so no accounts can be opened under his SSN without a representative calling him at home and speaking with him personally before they’ll even allow the CC company to run his credit. There are several services that provide this protection at a low cost.
I’m not so sure I wouldn’t press charges. The 4-year-old’s parents/elders need to be setting a better example for her instead of lying and stealing and deceiving.
I would require a payment from them every week. I would require credit counseling, shopaholic therapy, whatever it takes, maybe more than one kind.
AND I WOULD MAKE THEM READ THIS BLOG EVERY DAY SO THEY LEARN THEY DON’T HAVE TO LIVE LIKE THAT ANYMORE!
PS- Make sure to get any “agreements” on payments, confessions, etc., in WRITING and WITNESSED so that they can be exhibits in Small Claims or for the police later. Judges like hard copy evidence.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:02 am
I had a friend whose mother opened up a credit card under his name and rang up $15k. What he did was force her to pay it all off and told her that if she did this again, he would press charges which would ruin her career (she is a CPA). As soon as it was paid off, he closed the account.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:03 am
I just had another idea: get your and your wife’s names removed from the marketing lists so that you and she no longer receive credit card offers.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:10 am
I used to work in fraud/chargebacks for a 3rd party credit card processor. Most identity theft cases were what we called, “friendly fraud,” meaning the victim knew the suspect. In most of those cases it was a family member. Unfortunately, many customers were upset to learn that the bank could do nothing without an affidavit of forgery and police report. Until you submit those documents the assumption is those are your charges and you are responsible.
Most small-dollar cases were not prosecuted because both parties agreed to make payment and clear the debts. A few were occasionally prosecuted and the perpetrators were ordered to pay restitution to the bank, and occasionally to the victim.
In this case, the mother and sister committed criminal fraud and it should be a matter between them, the bank, and the legal system.
If this happened in my own family I may give them three or four days to try to secure a loan to pay off the debts before filing charges, but gut reaction would be to report it immediately. Be sure to freeze your wife’s credit and add a fraud victim statement with each of the three major credit reporting agencies.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:12 am
SouthernGent & wife should not feel guilty about being upstanding citizens by reporting these crimes to the proper authorities. They would report any other individuals guilty of the same crimes, and can do the same here, and they could even flat-out tell the family that! They need to know that the wife is not a push-over, that there are consequences, that this is not how you get easy money! This has to be one of the hardest lessons they’ll ever learn, and I would have no problem letting the proper legal authorities take care of some of that learning! They need to feel ashamed of their actions. They need to know that this is never an option. They need to be scared of what the 4-year-old would do if they did get thrown in the slammer.
It is only then, when the selfishness shifts, that they will realize that their actions were very harmful to everyone involved.
I think they should proceed as though they are dealing with any other criminals, and treat every plea for mercy with complete shock and disbelief.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:17 am
That’s a tough situation but I don’t see how you could just let it go on without reporting it. The personal consequences are just too great.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:23 am
@Daniel - they may actually be liable for the entire amount. Now that they know the cards have been opened if they don’t report the cards they can be liable for anything charged. They need to follow the procedure required by the law and the credit card company. If not they are liable for at least a portion of the debt (anything charged after they became aware of those cards)
I’d report it to the police and the credit card companies, as well as all three credit reporting agencies. Then I’d get my name of the junk mail list. It sounds harsh, but if SouthernGent wants to protect his own family it’s probably the only way. Also, just because they found the three cards doesn’t mean that the MIL and Sister haven’t done something else with his wife’s identity.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:25 am
I concur with the “report it” votes. I used to see a lot of this as well - if SouthernGent wants to keeps his and his wife’s credit pristine, they have no other choice. If these family members can’t open cards to transfer the balances into, this is just a nightmare waiting to happen.
So sorry that you have to deal with this - it’s most unfair that family members would put a “loved one” in this situation.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:35 am
Report it. If it was anyone else you’d report it
April 18th, 2008 at 6:53 am
The mom and sister will never learn unless Southern Gent and his wife report this. Call it tough love.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:53 am
The only thing to do is file the police report. There is no other way around it. If you don’t report it, you will be held responsible for any unauthorized charges, etc.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:01 am
I’d first try working with the credit card companies themselves and the credit reporting agencies. And no matter what happened I’d make sure the cards were cut up and never used again while the mother/sister pay off the balance.
I don’t know what their relationship is, but I’d probably keep the authorities out of it.
-Wayne
April 18th, 2008 at 7:02 am
1. Freeze your credit like everyone else says. If you do file a police report like you should then you can freeze your credit for free.
2. Make sure you’re checking one credit report every 4 months. (3 bureaus divided by 12 months = 1 check every 4 months) It should help you catch issues more quickly.
I can understand it would be hard to report them but what they did really is a crime.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:08 am
I guess I would contradict major vote in comments. At first I would not report it. Money come and go but family is always there. We all have sins. People do slip once in awhile. Question is what do they learn from that.
That’s what happened here. This issue could be resolved by signing repayment agreement between SouthernGent and his in-laws. And SouthernGent should put in place triggers to prevent that from happening again in the future. I.e. credit report watch from Expirian for example costs only $9.99 a month and would have prevent this whole thing from happening. Properly changing address also must be done.
But all-in-all money is not everything is this world. I’d say 5 years from now money will be forgotten but if their in-laws go to jail that will be remember forever. And SouthernGent might not necessarily fell proud of putting in-laws in jail 5 years from now.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:08 am
I have to agree to reporting it also, they did not think about the consequences for you and your wife when they opened the accounts I think that pretty well proved their so called love for the 2 of you. Also, I would be willing to write off or work out payments if there had been just one of the small ones, crediting it to maybe a broken down car or a needed house repair, but come on - 3 credit cards and they are escalating in balances. There are no instant $12,000 emergencies, anything that big (let’s say medical) they let you make payments or the community would come together to help out this family in their time of need. My guess is that these charges are not emergencies they are “wants” and the fact that they have managed to open 3 in a year indicates that they do not take this seriously and that they were emboldened by not getting caught the first time and then the second….serial murderers are the same way. If you don’t report them, this is the lesson that they will teach your 4 year old niece, it won’t stop I promise you. Best of luck, SouthernGent you are in a terrible situation.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:17 am
Well Dearie, THEY STOLE THE WIFE’S IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY KNEW SHE WAS A PUSHOVER, A PROFESSIONAL VICTIM WHO WOULD MEWL ABOUT FAMILY TIES, THE FOUR YEAR OLD NIECE (who is learning to live a life of crme from her deadbeat family) and how she could not have “family” arrested. Do everyone a favor, report the crimes, prosecute, PUT A FREEZE ON YOUR CREDIT REPORTS AND YOUR WIFE’S CREDIT REPORTS, and teach the four year old that crime doesn’t pay!
April 18th, 2008 at 7:24 am
I would be inclined to do pretty much what commenter 8, Chris’s friend did:
1) Stop any further charges on these cards
2) Let them know in no uncertain terms that they need to pay off the debt ASAP.
3) Let them know that if they miss a payment, or stop paying, or do anything more that would adversely affect my credit rating (or any other criminal act), I would report them to the police.
People make stupid mistakes. Give them a chance to make good while still showing the real consequences of their actions.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:26 am
A little jail time would teach a lesson. Family shouldn’t do this to family, and yet it happens precisely because folks are willing to look the other way because they share some DNA with dishonest thiefs.
File the report. Beg with the police or DA not to press charges. But under no circumstances should the money be paid by the victim. That’s just enabling the problem.
Oh, and freeze the credit reports. I should go do that now, too.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:28 am
By the way, Alicia has a pretty good point — that there is a legal principle supporting that, since you now know of these accounts and you failed to remedy the situation immediately, you tacitly acknowledge the validity of the debt and your willingness to accept responsibility of payment.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:33 am
Wow. My deadbeat older brother has stolen money from my Mom’s purse, but 17 grand, that is big time! How would the wife feel if she found out her mom and sister took 17K from her savings account, it’s about the same thing.
It’s even worse than stealing from a stranger, because the perp is using/leveraging the relationship she has with the victim with the hopes that will prevent the victim from calling the police. With friends like that, who needs enemies?
April 18th, 2008 at 7:37 am
With family like that, who needs enemies??? This CRIME — and this southern gentleman’s wife needs to be reminded that this WAS a crime — needs to be reported to the police. If this were my family, I would immediately report them to the police, and press charges for identity theft. I am a teacher currently and I agree with all the others that unless this occurs, that little 4-year old is going to commiting grand theft by the time she is 10. So many kids I have in my charge have parents who lie for them….what is this doing for future generations?? Zippo…they need to be incarcerated for the crime they commited, the audacity they had to do it in the first place, and their incredible selfishness in not thinking how this would affect their own relative.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Report it. This gentleman’s wife is enabling her family’s behavior, and giving them permission to take advantage of her good name and hard work. In trying to be “nice” she’s just going to screw herself.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:55 am
A crime is a crime, regardless of who commits it. I would report the crime IMMEDIATELY to the police. If the guilty parties ( relatives or not ) end up in jail, then so be it. It is not acceptable to steal someone’s identity in any case, even if they are family.
Besides, if you just “let it go”, who’s to say it won’t happen again, and worse?
April 18th, 2008 at 7:55 am
@Alicia, you are correct - I was not clear in my statement.
Since these are fraudulent charges, they would not liable for them, but SouthernGent and wife will be held liable for the charges unless they report them as fraudulent, which will require contacting the police. Once they do that, they will not be held liable for the charges.
@Jon, you have a good point - SouthernGent needs to move quickly on this.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:55 am
I have to cast my vote with Slava. While this was a terrible thing to do, it is important to take the relationships into account.
Obviously, the mom and the sister have violated trust in this family, and that does make you wonder how their relationship is otherwise. But do you really want to do permanent damage to ther relationship by sending the mom and sister to jail, or is there a way to firmly and lovingly restore things — saying, “This is not okay, and I am going to help you make it right”? I believe that would be option #2 from the Identity Theft Resource Center.
The second thing to keep in mind is that this can affect Southern Gentleman’s relationship with his own wife. I know that if one of my in-laws did this to us and my husband wanted to pursue an option that would not send the in-law to jail, my insisting on something harsher rather than trying to work things out would not be beneficial for our marriage.
I’m not making light of what happened. I just believe that restoring the relationships is the most important thing.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:56 am
I can understand their catch-22, it’s easy to say “press charges!” afterall it is the right thing to do since these two are criminals, but then there’s the family factor that is making this difficult.
My take, in situations were someone exploits a relationship is to consider this: It’s just as much their responsibility to protect this relationship as it is yours. They essentially ’sold’ the relationship for $17K. If their willing to do that then they can pay the consequences.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:00 am
Yeah, you have to report this. I think you could probably raise the 4 yo niece while mom is in prison, and then she might grow up with some values. What is worse, having your mom in prison, or being raised by someone who thinks it is okay to steal from her siblings? I would report my family members if they did something like this. In fact, I have for lesser crimes.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Since jail time might not even be an issue here, I’d look into filing a police report. And if/when it goes to trial, I’d explain that I didn’t want them to go to jail, but I wanted full restitution made. If this is the first time for them, hopefully it won’t be a problem.
Unless there’s a way for them to settle it quickly, I think that’s really the only option. These are clearly not people who can be trusted.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Never had mine stolen. But in the past I got to watch irresponsible parents destroy their kids credit before the kids even knew what credit was. Parents that can’t get utilities turned on in their own name anymore because they owe money sometimes put it in their kids name(s). One lady had three kids and all of them had wrecked credit before they were 18.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:08 am
Although my inclination would be that of everyone else’s - just to report them - I acknowledge it’s much easier to say that when it’s not your own situation, so here are some alternatives you could consider:
–if you have the money to pay off the credit cards, see if your mom/sister would sign a legal contract (drawn up by a lawyer) for a loan from you for the same amount. Then pay off the cards and close them and put a freeze on your credit so no one can open anything in your name again. Then at least you have some additional legal protection (the contract) and no one else has control over your credit rating/social security number.
–if you don’t have the money, tell them they have a set amount of time (two weeks or something) to obtain a loan from a bank (tell them to try prosper if they think they won’t be approved by a bank) to pay off the cards and close them. tell them you are going to the police and filing a report if it hasn’t been done by the end of the time period. then if you do have to report them, at least you gave them a chance to do the right thing and take care of it first.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:11 am
I just posed this to DH, and we agreed that we’d file, even when we talked about specific siblings. We’d file the police report. We have always been generous with well-thought-out requests for family loans (gifts), so we would be very angry if anyone felt that they had the right to steal from us.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Isn’t it somewhat sad that the credit card companies do not appear to have any responsibilities in this situation for not verifying the application came from the right person in the first place? Clearly something needs to change in our laws.
I have to agree with everyone else that there is no choice here except to file a police report and follow the legal course of action. I don’t think money, even $17,000, is more important than family, but I would not allow myself or my husband to be treated this way by a family member.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:19 am
I would be furious! I would actually be less mad if it was a complete stranger because you would expect that, but not from a family member or friend.
Wow…
Throw the book at them Gent, they deserve it. The Credit Card company should also be held responsible for the balance for not doing a better job of confirming identity before issuing a CC to a person. I know this would require longer waits to get approved, but that would curb alot of this abuse I think.
Phone up the CC company and give them a piece of your mind too for their role in this fraud.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:30 am
It’s easy to say to report it when it hasn’t actually happened to you. The exact same situation happened to my wife and I a couple years ago. We had just recently paid off all of our debt and after 12 years of marriage were finally debt-free. My wife checked our credit reports and discovered several credit card accounts with the combined balance totaling around $12K. She already had some suspicions that her mother had a gambling problem, so when she saw this, she confronted her about it and discovered her mom had taken the accounts out in my name using credit card offers that went to her house. Needless to say, we were pi**ed off and we essentially cut her out of our lives right then and there, and let it be known that we were considering reporting her. Within a few days, her mother emailed us to say that she was borrowing money from her boyfriend to pay the cards off and that she was entering gambling addiction treatment. I’m not sure if it was the threat of legal action or the fact that she would likely never see her daughter and grandchildren again that made her face up to it and take responsibility. We set up online access to those accounts and checked for payments daily until after a week or two, all the accounts were paid, and we immediately called and closed the accounts. If she hadn’t taken the initiative to pay us back, we almost certainly would have filed a police report. One of the consequences we didn’t expect and that I still don’t really understand is that other family members (my wife’s siblings) were actually more upset with us than their mother. I don’t know if they thought we were overreacting or whatever, but the point is that how you react may affect other relationships in addition to those directly involved. Even after it was resolved, we didn’t have any contact with her for several months. My wife and her were very close prior to that, usually talking on the phone every day. We are now back on speaking terms with her, but once the trust is gone, the relationship can never be the same.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Just finished reading “Stealing Your Life” by Frank W. Abingdale (from “Catch Me If You Can”). According to the book, relatives are involved in 9% of all ID thefts!
A few other things I wasn’t aware of are:
- your debit card PIN can be recorded by the merchant! And if you live with someone, your bank will deny your claim on the basis of someone’s accessability to your wallet!
- if you’re a small business using online banking and hackers get hold of your $$$, then you’re out of luck. It’s your business’ duty to protect your PC!
- but, even if you’re a consumer using online banking, you’re also screwed if you use third-party software like Quicken or Microsoft Money! (check your agreement)
- your credit report may be fine, but your credit report’s SUBFILES may be NOT! Those subfiles may also reveal that you owe IRS a few more $K, because Jose is using your SS# to get employed.
It’s about time we started talking about scams! One can grow rich slowly all her life and loose everything in an instant due to her lack of basic scam education.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:43 am
How do you get yourself off of marketing lists????
April 18th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Wow, great comments. Prior to reading the comments, I was somewhat ambivalent as to what I might advise, but a lot of the comments have really convinced me. What I would do:
1. Meet with the family and let them know that what they did was not just wrong, hurtful, and deceptive, but criminal, and that you are going to file a police report, because otherwise in the law’s eyes, the assumption is that SouthernGent’s wife is okay with having the debt in her name (and she had better not be!). Put it to them this way — if something tragic were to happen to them, and payments stopped coming, SG’s wife would be the one responsible. (Wouldn’t they feel bad about that?) Since they are family, I think it’s important to calmly let them know all of this ahead of time. Also let them know what comment #5 said: if they are cooperative, they likely won’t face jail time, but they’ll just have to do what they would theoretically end up doing anyway: pay back the debt.
2. Do it. No matter what excuses they come up with, file the police report. They were warned, and any fears they have about it, they should have thought of that *before* they decided to commit i.d. theft.
3. Obtain a credit freeze.
4. Make sure you’re on the opt-out list (1-888-5-OPTOUT), so that random credit card offers stop being sent. This has decreased our mail by quite a bit.
5. Let us know how it goes!
April 18th, 2008 at 9:02 am
How did you even think of asking your sister and mother in law? It wouldn’t have crossed my mind that just maybe this mysterious $17,000 debt came from my own family. That really says something.
Now that it’s all in the open, don’t bother with the cops. Physically confiscate the cards and force them to sign a promissory note. You could probably base it on the one that Prosper uses to make sure everything is phrased right. Make sure you put a nice fat interest rate on there, at least a few percentage points above the credit cards!
April 18th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Report your loser, criminal family members. And put a fraud alert on your credit report. Unfortunately, your family members will not go to jail. District Attorney offices rarely prosecute such cases - they aren’t seen as a priority. Generating a report with the police is the only way to prove to the credit card companies that this isn’t your debt. Otherwise, you will be held liable if anything goes wrong with the payments. Plus, making a big stink about this (even if it doesn’t involve jail) is probably the only way to get these dysfunctional family members to stop engaging in such behaviors.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Turn them in. This is toxic family.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Leaches have more honor. They must go to jail.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:36 am
I apologize in advance for the lengthy comments to follow.
The fact that the mother and sister “could not open credit cards in their own names to transfer the balances” tells us that they already have problems dealing with finances even before they stole the wife’s name and credit history. Yes, stole. That is exactly what it is.
My husband’s first wife did the exact same thing to him - twice. After they had been married about five years, she ran up huge amounts on credit cards in his name, close to $25,000. When he found out, he believed all her “I’m sorry, I’ll never do it again”, etc. and paid off the cards. He trusted her to not do it again.Less than eight years later, she did it again, but was sneakier. She rented a post office box and had all the bills sent to that. She maintained a “real” checkbook and a fake one to show him. She figured out how to dummy up bank statements to show him and kept the real statements stashed away. This lady was intelligent and a loving, church going mother, sister, friend….not a “typical” criminal.
One day he received a call at work from a creditor looking for payment. He told them he didn’t know what they were talking about and hung up on them but he knew in his gut that she had done something. He left work, went home and confronted her and she finally broke down and admitted it. He went to the bank and got copies of his statements and found out to his horror that she had gone through nearly $90,000 and it was ALL gone. She took out a mortgage on his 100 year old family home and the mortgage company was starting foreclosure procedures. He still has no idea what happened to all that money — besides from their oldest daughter’s wedding, large bequests to the church, numerous useless knick knacks around the house and a “friend” who was always needing cash — he still figures that there is a lot of money still unaccounted for. Anyway, he told her that they were done and to pack her s#*& and get out. Then he left. One day later, she killed herself. That didn’t stop the creditors and bill collectors from calling day and night. He had to go and file a theft report with the sheriff’s department, arrange for his two younger daughters to stay with other family, explain to his bosses why he wouldn’t be at work for awhile and deal with co-workers, “friends”, family and complete strangers not knowing what had really happened and thinking that HE had “driven her” to kill herself. (And no, this is not just what he told me, I witnessed it all from a distance because he and I work for the same employer, in different departments.
The point of this whole sad and sorry tale is this: People who will steal from their own family like this will do it over and over again UNLESS and UNTIL they are held accountable.
Promising “never to do it again”, “I’ll pay it back” and other empty words are just words. If they had the means to pay it back or to get a loan to pay it back in the first place, they wouldn’t have needed to steal the credit/money. You have to report it for YOUR family’s sake and for the sake of your financial well-being. My husband is still dealing with the financial fall out from his former wife’s thievery. Family members that steal will continue to steal, it is a sickness, an addiction. The mother and sister have to be held accountable. If they are allowed any leeway at all, they will take all of that and much more. Please don’t let the fact that they “are family” influence the actions that you must take to protect yourself.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:38 am
I think it depends on how close you are with the family members. If you are close with them, even though they appear to be screw ups, I would give them the chance to pay the debt away. Not nicely though. Cars would need to be sold, second mortgages taken out, loans, second jobs…whatever they could do to make a good faith effort to show they will pay these debts off and fast.
If they didn’t agree to be aggressive (you decide how much) about paying the debts down, I would then report them.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:46 am
File the police report. Hopefully an agreement can be reached with the prosecutor to allow the guilty parties to take on the debt.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:57 am
@matthew: To remove yourself from pre-approved credit offers, call 1-800-5-OPTOUT. (And maybe it’s 888-5-optout.) Also, you can visit http://www.optoutprescreen.com. You will be asked for your SSN; give it, since that’s how these things operate.
See this page for more info and other things you can do.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:03 am
This is a story that actually repeats itself very frequently. I know of a company who actually promotes protection against identity theft. They monitor your credit report and when anything unusual pops up they inform you and actually work with you to repair the damage.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:06 am
To opt out of credit offers, call 1-888-5-OPTOUT or go to optoutprescreen.com
You can get off junk mail lists by going to the DMA site,
http://www.the-dma.org/consumers/offmailinglist.html
What about filing a change of address with the post office too, as if you wife moved from the old address to her current home address? It should not affect mail already received at her current home address.
The first thing I would do while trying to decide how to proceed is contact the credit card companies and see if you can freeze the cards to allow no new charges or increases in credit limit. Get physical custody of the cards and cut them up. I’d probably give the family a relatively short time limit to get a loan or sell or return things to clear the balances, say 1-2 weeks. I’d freeze the wife’s credit entirely too.
If they could not clear the debt in the given timeframe, I’d file a police report. On the plus side, they haven’t been late yet, so working it out may be possible, but that’s a lot of debt in a short period of time, so there may be other issues like addiction floating around. Does either the mother or sister have a partner who is a drug addict, etc? Do you think there is a chance they have opened credit lines in other names than your wife’s? Reporting them may be doing them a favor before they get in even deeper. They crossed the line, and if they can’t make it right nearly immediately, you are perfectly within your moral and legal right to get restitution. They are not going to jail or likely to lose the 4-year-old over this. But probation and court-supervised restitution might wake things up.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:35 am
This is heinous. That said, assuming the relationships amongst family members are otherwise good beyond this incident, then it is a bit more complicated than most above are acknowledging.
The first priority for the gentleman is to GET THE DEBT INTO THE MOTHER/SISTER’S NAME(S). How is not important; at a rate that puts them in a tough spot is not even that important.
If they cannot do a CC balance transfer, then what about taking out a home equity loan against the balance and paying it off?
If this will not work, I’d tell them they need to get on Prosper or Lending Club and get a $17,000 loan at what rate the market will bear and pay up, within 2-3 weeks max.
At that point, I’d report it as fraudulent. With the difficulty this has caused, rectifying this situation should be the top priority in the mother’s/sister’s lives.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:06 am
For obvious reasons, this post is anonymous.
Please understand the spirit in which I share this information… it is not to glorify anything that had happened. It will be clear in the end.
I have committed credit card fraud. I did 3 years in prison for it.
I contributed to the interest rates on credit cards going up.
It took me having to lose everything and working very hard to regain even the simplest of things that most of us take for granted - then having someone steal from me - before I understood the import of what I had done.
Because of the specifics of *how* I did what I did, which I won’t go into here, I rationalized it away that I wasn’t hurting any person specifically, because it wasn’t identity theft.
Then it hit me, no matter how much I tried to convince myself otherwise… I was stealing from YOU. (Who is “you”? everyone reading this… that’s who “you” is).
I was stealing from someone who had worked their ass off to get what they had, and done so honestly.
That’s when I started to realize that things I worked for couldn’t be taken away, in the sense that I didn’t have to defend hard work.
All of this to make this point:
SouthernGent: this is fraud. this is theft. these are felony acts that have been committed.
It doesn’t matter how much you want to paint it otherwise.
You and your wife have busted butt to get to where you are, only to have someone you love take it away.
Allowing this to go on will NOT help them. They need to be held accountable and liable for their actions. If that means criminal charges, so be it. No amount of excuses or posturing changes the fact that they KNEW what they were doing was wrong, and illegal.
Just because they are family does not mean they should get a free pass.
And yes, there is the issue of the 4-year old. It would be tragic if she learned that theft and dishonesty and deceit were acceptable.
I would encourage you to have a very frank talk with your family about this, and make your intentions known.
Their responses will tell you a lot about what kind of people they are.
I wish you the best of luck in this situation.
I hope your family members turn around, as well.
Life is so much better lived, when you do it in such a way that you never have to look over your shoulder.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:11 am
April 18th, 2008 at 11:12 am
If someone steals your identity, I would think it would be appropriate to steal theirs back. If their identity isn’t worth much, you could also steal their skin, wear it, and pretend to be that person for a week. Just a thought…
April 18th, 2008 at 11:16 am
It pretty much doesn’t matter what you do to try and recover the money, someone somewhere in the extended family is going to think that you (Southerngent) have overreacted - after all, it’s only money.
No, I don’t think that’s a fair reaction but I’m pretty certain it’ll happen. And your wife needs to work out whether she can deal with it.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:18 am
It’s easy for someone to say “it’s only money” when it’s not their money. Hey, at least the thief knows who to target next: the people who apparently don’t think theft is a big deal among family members! I’d report it if only to preserve my ability to work with the creditors to get my money back. The link J.D. provided to the Identity Theft Resource Center contains excellent information.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:19 am
It’s interesting how forgiving we all are when family and friends abuse us financially compared to physically or sexually, and I include myself when I say that. My gut reaction is to try to think of ways to avoid involving the authorities and keep the peace, while at the same time the more rational side of myself seems to be calling out to play it cold as ice and call the cops.
I am sure part of that is empathy based on my hatred of the consumer credit industry; clearly they share some blame for this by making getting those credit cards so easy to get. If nothing else, why did those firms play dumb and not notice that these revolving card account were being delivered to a completely different address than the one attached to the mortgage? It may not be completely unusual but I doubt it’s common. My last TransUnion report is very distinct with an entry saying CURRENT ADDRESS. Equifax’s entries show when the address was reported. Only Experian’s makes no distinction between all the addresses listed.
After that, however, I wonder if most of our empathy isn’t too strong. We wouldn’t tell a woman not to call the cops because her husband only punched her in the eye “that once,” would we? Is it just because the harm they cause is more indirect? I’m not even sure that’s true - would we be so forgiving of someone playing a different kind of russian roulette with our lives - replacing birth control pills with sugar pills? Using our work-supplied resources do to things that might get us fired?
What’s the cause of this different in reactions, I wonder? Shame over money? Guilt when we’re more successful than our friends and family? Years of being told - and it’s a message I beleieve - that family and love are more important than success and riches?
I wish I knew the answer.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Wow. This is a tough situation but I’m going to have to agree with most of the posters that a police report should be filed, ASAP.
An earlier poster made a very good comment — how did SGent’s wife know to check with her Mom and sis in the first place? Obviously there’s a history there. If I saw those charges, I would call the police and my CCs right away, I wouldn’t stop for a moment to think “should I check with my Mom or brother first?”
If her Mom and sister start making a fuss, “how could you,” etc., the conversation could go something like:
SGent’s Wife: “Do you think it’s my responsibility to pay off the $17K?”
Mom and Sis: “No.” (If they say yes, that exposes the real depth of this issue.)
SGent’s Wife: “Well, in the eyes of the CCs and the law, the $17K IS my responsibility, and filing this report is the only way to correct that.”
Believe me I’m sure it’s easier said than done. I hope we can get an update on how this goes! This is making me feel vicariously sick to my stomach. Good luck.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:21 am
It’s really a shame we don’t have some kind of professional arbitration system in addition to our legal system for dealing with matters like this. It’s too bad people like this don’t have some authority to go to that will help them resolve the money, and give the out-laws a chance to make right what they have done wrong, without jail time, or without the victims paying the bill.
The out-laws have been paying the bill all along, so they have the ability pay it. Someone here made the point that after discovery, the motivation for paying has been taken away. I have to agree with that. This leaves the option of punitive measures, or probably paying it themselves.
Our legal system needs another branch to help with negotiating a settlement without ruining people’s lives. It’s easy for people here to say “throw the book at them”, but the prospect of losing your family connections, however badly they have behaved, is just awful.
Does anyone know of any outside agency that could help resolve these disputes while still protecting the family relationships?
April 18th, 2008 at 11:31 am
At first I thought how could you possibly turn them in - it’s so much easier said then done.
But then, think of this:
Would they have kept right on stealing from you if they had not got caught? It’s not like they took $5000 because their old car broke down and they needed it for work. It wasn’t an emergency. It was just plain stealing!
April 18th, 2008 at 11:37 am
@Anne
If you ask me, the family relationship is already dead. The mother and sister destroyed that when they took out the credit cards.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Bottom line, your mother/sister-in-law can’t qualify for a credit card for good reason. You need to, at the very least, have the debt transferred into their names.
If they can’t qualify for financing to absolve you of debt, make them return everything they had a receipt/return policy for and then start eBay-ing things they own.
If it was me, I would pursue as many charges against them as possible. It is an even greater violation when your own family robs you.
Just my 2 cents.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
First off, consult a lawyer.
Secondly, I’d have them take out a loan on prosper.com, payoff the cards, write a letter officially apologizing for the identity theft and outline the steps that have been taken to rectify them, transfer *all* information they have about the credit cards to the rightful owner. There’s going to be implications if they just close the accounts (esp. 3 of them!).
April 18th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Just checked my free annual report. Isn’t there a time when negative accounts should drop off? I have 4 negatives one in 1972, one in 1994, 1996,1999. Shouldn’t at least the 1972 one be gone,although I still have that account?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Just one more thought - there are many commenters who suggest filing only if mom and sis don’t pay the amount back per some arrangement.
If you do not report the accounts as fraud in a timely manner, you won’t be able to. If you are aware of the debts, and don’t dispute them in some period of time (I’m not sure what it is, but I know there is a limit, and I’m pretty sure it’s less than 30 days), the credit card companies will not accept the dispute. Being aware and not filing equals tacit approval of the usage.
Making arrangements, promissory notes, etc., are all workable ideas. Just be aware that if you choose not to file and they stop paying, it’s your credit that’s affected and you cannot correct that 60-90 days from now.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Wow - can’t believe they would go behind the wife’s back like that, and they are related? It’s terrible. One or more late payments will have such a negative impact on their FICO score too. In a situation like this I would contact the credit card company to make sure no more purchases can be done, and heed the credit card company’s advice as to how to proceed. I really would have a hard time with police reports, etc. because of “family”, but would want an automatic withdrawal made from their account to ensure no future payments would be late, and of course to sell whatever they can immediately to pay down the debt as much as possible, in addition to those auto payments.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
The credit card company will likely require a police report to be filed before they’re willing to work on resolving the problem. I don’t think there’s a way around that. From the site that J.D. linked to:
“Credit card companies and financial institutions: The credit card companies and financial institutions want their money back. That is a reasonable expectation. It is your task to convince them that another person has taken over your accounts and/or opened new accounts in your name – all without your permission or knowledge. You will have to prove that you have not benefited financially from these accounts. Unfortunately, without a police report, your job will be much tougher. Credit card companies do not take victims seriously without a police report.”
April 18th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
call the cops. if you don’t, you’re being stupid.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
They will not stop.
If they have run up $17K in one year, think what they would have done if unchecked for three. Keeping up with payments doesn’t mean they weren’t still charging and increasing the debt. Eventually, they wouldn’t have been able to keep up with the minimum and they could have owed three or four times as much.
SouthernGent has to file a police report.
They (mother and sister) have to get a lawyer.
They have to provide a means of handling the debt.
Any one of SouthernGent’s relatives who feels that what they are doing is unfair or cruel, is free to pay off the debt and lawyer fees and have the wife’s mother and sister pay them back. Otherwise mercy and forgiveness can be shown in helping them work something out with their lawyer along the lines others have suggested to pay off the debt. Even if SpouthernGent and his wife chose to take out a loan and suck it up, at least they’ve got the opportunity to make a choice and not have something stolen from them.
How do I know they won’t stop?
I have a brother who has never paid property taxes on his house. Why? Because my parents are on the deed and typically contacted right before the county would begin forclosure proceedings. They’d scream at my brother and he’d say he was sorry and promise to take money out of every paycheck to save for it next time. Then they paid it off. But they won’t take their name off the deed because they don’t want him to lose the house. He’d tell them everything was fine, until they got a call from the county a few years later. This cycle has repeated four times and we’re on our way for a fifth. It has amounted to nearly two hundred thousand when you include the interest and fees. He’s learned he doesn’t have to pay, they’ll bail him out no matter what it takes. My father passed years ago, and now all my mother gets is Social Security. These payments have left her with one or two thousand to her name. Any money I give her, any bills I pay, means more money funneled to him at my families detriment. All offers of having her sell her house and move in with my family are refused. She knows I won’t bail him out, and her house is her last remaining asset. She’s taken out a home equity loan to pay off this last round. I’ve spoken to my brother. He’s a wonderful guy, good heart, generous to his friends, hard working, but so full of s@#t it’s flowing from his ears. He said he was up to date and he knows the condition my mother is in and he won’t let it happen again. I checked with the county clerk. He’s not up to date. My eighty year old mother is paying a home equity loan on below poverty Social Security income and he’s fallen behind already. It’s only been a year.
They will not stop.
I don’t know that they even know how.
I used to think this was an exception.
It’s not.
Many people who I’ve talked to have family who finacially abuse them.
They will not stop until they realize they won’t get bailed out.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
I’d follow a flow chart decision making process.
1. Get more information and stop the bleeding. Call the credit card company and find out what the terms are on the cards. Have them freeze the cards and find out what happens when you report your relatives. You might even call the police and ask them what happens. Now you have more information on the consequences etc. Also do what you have to do with the credit services to prevent this from happening again. Other people have suggested ways to do that.
2a. Do you have enough money to pay this off yourself either right away or over a year? If so you have the option of taking on the debt and having your relatives pay you. You have to accept that they probably won’t pay all of it. They aren’t honest people. But you can protect your credit if they don’t pay you and you can make sure the cards get paid off. Your choice.
2b. If you don’t have enough money to pay the cards off in a reasonable time or you decide that you don’t want to, then you really have to report it - or your credit is likely destroyed. Tell your relatives it isn’t personal, you just have to protect yourself. I suspect they won’t go to jail and that they will forgive you after awhile.
Right now you’re hurt that people you care about could do this but if you step back and remove the emotion - to the extent you can, the options will seem a bit more obvious.
Good Luck,
Chris
April 18th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Wow! Wow, wow, wow. I’m in utter shock.
This is definitely a situation that I believe many of us really can’t say for sure what we would do, unless we were, or have been, in that situation. Definitely get beyond the ’shoot from the hip’ reaction and be rational about how to handle this. Like many have said, if you really don’t want to be liable, you have to dispute it as soon as possible, which may mean a police report - SouthernGent & the missus needs to get informed ASAP.
Reminds me, I need to obtain my 2nd of 3 free credit reports. Since it’s 1, per year, from each bureau, I stagger mine - 1 every 4 months = 3 per year.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
My inclination would be to report them to the authorities… However, when it comes to family, there are obvious other issues….
1) Put a freeze on your credit and your wife’s. This means that **only** if you call in and ‘unfreeze’ your account can any new cards be opened.
2) Gather the cards up from your relatives and destroy them.
3) As the cards are in your name, call and have the bills redirected to your address. When the bills come in, call your relatives and have them drop by with a money order in your name and you pay them. Insist on paying them down at an accelerated rate.
4) Contact the credit card companies and tell them that a family member has fraudulently had the cards issued in your name and tell them that you are canceling the cards, but will do your best to make sure they get paid monthly until paid off.
… Course, I’d still be more inclined in this instance to call the card companies and tell them what happened and give them all the contact info on the family members and let them hash it out amongst themselves. I’d give the family member a week to contact them and make arrangements.
Thx jegan
April 18th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
I don’t know if anyone will read this comment seeing as how it’s way down here but hopefully JD will catch this and relay the message. What I do is set a fraud alert even if there is no fraud or any to speak of ever. A fraud alert simply notifies the credit bureaus that you are suspicious of fraud activity with your credit and they’ll monitor this for you.
You simply only have to notify one bureau and that bureau will notify the other two for you automatically. Now everytime there is a hit on your credit whether someone is trying to apply for a new credit card, loan, mortgage, or even open a new cell phone number (anything that has to do with credit), before it is approved, the bureau “should” call you first to verify that it is you who is trying to open the account. Without verbal approval and verification, they automatically stop the ID theft dead in their tracks.
The service is free and lasts approximately 90 days (3 months). If you want to renew this, simply call back in after 90 days and renew it again. If you have been a victim of identity theft, they’ll let you do the alert for up to 7 years (there has to be proof you’ve been a victim). 90 days isn’t bad and for something that takes about 3-minutes to set up, and once every 90 days (four times a year), is well worth the secure feeling.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
SouthernGent mentioned in the forum that his in-laws are making all kinds of promises, but the MIL has lost her job just recently. The odds of payback are dropping quick. The odds of them opening more cards or taking out more loans in SoutherGent wife’s name are increasing dramatically. Whatever SouthernGent and his wife decide, they need to make sure that there is no doubt that the in-laws had better never do it again, and I’d try to lay my hands on anything that has you wife’s social security number on it, though it’s probably way to late.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
One other point about this.
What if it was someone in SouthernGent’s family who did this? I’d suggest both he and the wife flip this and consider it, it might give them both some perspective on what they want to do.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Lots of the comments sympathize with the wife, which is understandable. But the fact is that this isn’t just about family and money. It’s about trust and respect. They violated trust and showed no respect.
How could you look your in-laws in the face knowing they just ate the bulk of you’re kid’s college fund or unilaterally decided you’re going to have to work another year before you can retire. And there they sit, complaining they couldn’t buy a new pair of shoes among the dozens they already have, or worse yet, showing off ones they just bought.
Both SouthernGent and his wife will need to find a way to deal with that and I wish them the best in being able to do so.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Wow, I am in complete shock after reading this. I can’t believe that relatives would commit crimes like this against their own family. But then again, I’ve seen it happen.
I’m of the mindset that I’d confront them with what they have done and give them a chance to make it right before contacting the police. It lets you know what kind of people and values you’re working with (in case you weren’t already aware of what kind of people your relatives are).
I’d give them 1 week to obtain a loan/sell car/take out equity on their home/etc. to pay off the balance on the cards - if they can’t come up with the money, too bad for them, the police report and credit card company report get filed immediately.
They may beg you to make monthly payments if they can’t get a loan. Don’t consider it unless you get a legal and binding document from an attorney stipulating payments, no other arrangements should be considered (and make them pay for the attorney’s fees too). You may need this to take them to court if they stop making payments.
I figure, either they’ll take it seriously, or they will count on you being a doormat and paying it off yourself (which I’ve seen happen in my future husband’s family, my future MIL is paying off thousands on credit cards that her sister put in her name. When it was discovered, no police report was filed and the sister eventually stopped paying). Contacting the police and credit card companies if they choose the latter is the only reasonable choice. They must accept responsibility for their actions, whatever they may be.
While you’re at it, sign up for a service like Lifelock (which I ought to do, right now)so you’ll be protected from now on from id theft.
Other members in the family might kick up a stink, but remember, it isn’t their money and credit that’s on the line. If it’s a family worth belonging to, things will eventually calm down, otherwise, let it go. I know it sounds callous and cold, but you might be better off without people who think that relatives committing crimes like this against family is OK.
Good luck to you both, it’s a tough decision, but ultimately it’s yours to make.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
This isn’t a ten year old child lifting change off your dresser top. These are adults who have chosen to be crooks. Be up front and let them know you love them but don’t like their behavior. Explains they have made choices and will have to live with the results. If you forgive this don’t fool yourself and think they will pay you back. Nope just consider it a gift.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
@Slava — Of course, no one is perfect, but this isn’t $20 snitched from an open purse. I wouldn’t call 3 credit cards and 17K in charges “a slip”.
@Kate — If a family member stole my identity, I would have to say our relationship would already have “permanent damage”.
I can only imagine how hard this situation must be. My immediate thought was REPORT IT. And after reading all the comments and thinking about it for awhile, I still think they should report it.
There are many repayment/restitution options offered by many other commenters (all good ideas, AFTER you report it), but there is really no way to protect your credit unless you report it. Unless you happen to have 17K lying around to pay it off yourself. But then you get into the situation of if they’ll pay you back like they promised…probably not. Almost certainly not. And then you’re right back where you started, deciding whether or not to involve the police. Just bite the bullet. Regardless of what other family members may think, you are not at fault here, in any way. THEY stole your wife’s identity, THEY opened the cards in her name, THEY ran up the debt. The time has come for them to reap what they sowed.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
I vote for reporting it. Also? They are family to that little girl. I hate to say it, but they should consider volunteering to take her in on a foster basis if the little girl’s mom and grandma wind up going to prison.
Not as a punishment, but a lot of bad things happen to kids in the official foster care system, and far too many children wind up given away to strangers because their own families will not step in and take responsibility for them. That is tragic. Southern Gent and his wife have a tremendous opportunity here to help make something good out of something very bad.
But… yeah. Definitely report it. It is the hardest thing they will ever have to do. I reported my then-husband for breaking and entering and grand larceny, both felonies in the state in which we lived at the time. It was gut-wrenching. But there was nothing else I could do. My heart goes out to Southern and Mrs. Gent.
April 19th, 2008 at 3:24 am
My identity was stolen by a close family member. I prosecuted.
After reading all the posts about “the relationship” I say forget that. This person had already destroyed it.
This person had gotten away with theft for their entire life, stealing from my parents, their in-laws, their in laws friends, multiple employers AND NO ONE EVER PROSECUTED. All for “the relationship.”
I was the first person in this thief’s life that made them face the consequences of their actions.
No regrets here. Forgiveness? Yes. Allowing someone to screw ME..forget that.
http://www.thewisdomjournal.com/Blog/my-identity-was-stolen/
April 19th, 2008 at 5:59 am
listen to what “anonymous” says. He is right.
April 19th, 2008 at 8:09 am
On the surface the “family” part makes this tough, at least until you take a step back and look at the situation from a neutral perspective.
It is critical you close the accounts and put a fraud alert on your files to prevent future abuses. You absolutely can’t let them have the credit cards. If their credit is so poor they need to steal your identity, they will default. You then will either pay the debt or be pursued by creditors. It will trash your credit. It will also destroy your relationship with your family, not just the mom/sister but everyone.
And this all needs to be done immediately. If you delay, you will be responsible and your legal position diminished.
This is a bad situation but needs to be addressed immediately, directly, and bluntly. What I’ve advised people to do in similar cases is:
1. Talk to an atty. Laws vary from state to state. You may need to file a police report or become liable for the debt.
2. Give your wife’s mom and sister two weeks to close the accounts. Let them know if they don’t you will be forced to file a police report. Put the responsibility back on them.
3. Talk to the credit card companies and let them know you want to close the accounts and set up a payment plan for your wife’s mom and sister.
4. Be prepared to deal with a lot of flack for being so tough. Stand your ground and put the onus back on them. THEY violated the law. THEY put you in a bad position. YOU are working with them to avoid legal action.
5. Be ready to be the bad guy. You have to stand firm. You may need to walk away from your family for a while. Yes, I just said this. It is just that important.
This sounds harsh. Remember, you are the loving family member trying to solve the problem. While the actions are firm, you can phrase it in a way that shows your love and support.
April 19th, 2008 at 8:11 am
I don’t know what has to be done… but I recommend you all a very good novel by TC Boyle about this very subject, Talk Talk.
April 19th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Dear Southern Gent,
Confucius says “Opinions breed ignorance but examination of the facts breeds enlightenment”
I was in a situation similar to this once. I am not going to get into it but the other family member and I,had I not taken action could have ended up in severe trouble.
Look at the facts.
1 The people who stole are thieves.
2 If ,now that you know, you do nothing you
are condoning stealing and under the legal
system you may be held as accountable as
they are.
3 These people whom you know that did this
have made a statement.
4 It is up to you to respond to that
statement.
5 If you do nothing then you are just like
them by ‘omission’
6 Stand up and be counted. Tell them to pay
the debt by 7 days.
7 If they default get the legal advice and
follow through.
By the way the relationship is F***** and you did not F*** it these people did. The fraud itself is the worst thing take it from one who knows. Fraud is the misrepresentation of a fact with knowledge of its falsehood or recklessly without belief in its truth thereby causing and third party to act on the false fact as if it is true or actually inducing them to act on it.
LOOK AT THAT WORD RECKLESS AND THINK AM I BEING RECKLESS IN NOT RESPONDING TO THIS IN THE CORRECT MANNER?
IF IT CAN BE SHOWN THAT YOU BY NOT ACTING ARE BEING RECKLESS THEN YOU HAVE A BIGGER PROBLEM THAN THE RELATIONSHIP BREACH AND YOU MAY BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ENTIRE FALLOUT.
JOHN
April 19th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
They can in fact transfer the balance to one of their cards. They can request a balance transfer check that can be made out to any company or person. They could pay the card off directly or write the check to you and let you handle it.
April 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
As someone who has experienced similar, though not quite as extreme behavior from family, I’d say SouthernGent and his wife BOTH have to start watching themselves and their credit. I fully agree that being family, and mostly for the sake of their niece, legal action might not be the wisest path. They know if the mom and sister are evil people, or simply have trouble with money.
That said, take the physical cards away and contact the credit card companies to make sure the address and contact information is corrected. Otherwise, you could close the account and continue payments, hopefully with the cooperation of the mom and sister. Then, put a freeze on your credit (and SouthernGent’s, if needed) so credit can’t be extended without unfreezing it and watch your credit reports and score for anything odd. Besides that, I’d say never make money an issue of discussion with them again. That is, don’t ask for or lend them money because you will get burned again. You can’t stop some behavior, but you can prevent it.
Sometimes, you have to work hard to keep the peace in the family while not endangering yourself.
April 19th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Just because someone is related to you doesn’t mean they’re not parasites. Hard as it is to say, there ARE people out there who will take advantage of anyone who lets them take advantage.
If the prospect of reporting these crooks pains Southern Gent and Mrs. S.G., as it undoubtedly does, they need to get themselves some psychological therapy to help them deal with it.
The more you indulge people like this, the more they walk all over you. I speak from experience.
The S.G.’s should consider the possibility that if they DON’T report Mom and Sis and just let this float along, they themselves are defrauding the lenders. They become accessories to the crime, and a crime it is. We might use the word “felony.” They’re putting themselves at risk of criminal prosecution and a civil suit if they do not take prompt action.
Those two women are not going to come up with $17,000 in the near future (if they could, they wouldn’t have to hustle up three fraudulent credit cards).
Right now, today, the S.G.’s need to call the credit card issuers on the telephone, report what has happened, and have those accounts closed. The two “ladies” should be given an opportunity to mooch or steal 17 grand from someone else and use it to pay off the debts immediately. If they can’t come up with the cash, then the credit card companies and the S.G.’s should and must report this to the police. And press charges.
If they let this one go by, it’ll be one new antic after another, stretching into the future, forever and ever, world without end, amen!
And the four-year-old will continue to be used as a pawn to manipulate Mr. & Mrs. S.G. That’s what these people have kids for.
April 19th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I would press charges. That is inexcusable.
April 20th, 2008 at 4:36 am
It would seem that these the in-laws have difficulties getting credit which is most likely because they don’t know how to handle money ( $12,000 in one month!!! ). SouthernGent’s wife will be the one liable for the debt and her family will MOST likely not repay this debt. So … file the police report. Talk to the credit card company. Those actions make them responsible people.
April 20th, 2008 at 5:44 am
I have to admit, I’d hate to be in your shoes. Sadly, I was.
Last Year, I was taking steps to consolidate private student debt to a lower rate. I had always had very good credit, so I saw no reason this couldn’t happen. When the analyst on the other side of the phone told me I couldn’t qualify, I was shocked. A few days later, I began receiving calls from a collection agency saying I owed over $20K on a credit card that I didn’t recognize. It turned out that my older brother had opened the account over a year ago, and ran up so much debt that he couldn’t pay anymore. Not only did he open an account in my name, but he ran up almost as much debt in a card under my retired mother’s name.
The best I can do is tell you how the two of us have handled the situation and let you decide for yourself what to do. At first, we tried to make my brother admit his crime to the debt collectors, and have him assume the debt. when that didn’t work, I followed the instructions given to me here:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/microsites/idtheft/
It took a few months, but the creditors admitted their mistake and have cleared me of all responsibility. Also, the police have closed their case due to lack of cooperation from the credit card company, so my brother got lucky.
My mother, however, refused to file a police report against my brother. Her case is now in legal action, and he has had to retain an attorney. Additionally, due to her destroyed credit, she has had to change banks and com out of retirement. While I and my other siblings help with money as much as we can, she can no longer enjoy retirement, and I think the stress is affecting her health.
Personally, I’d protect yourself and file the complaint. This was done against you through no fault of your own. You deserve to keep what you’ve worked for.
April 21st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
You are not responsible for others choices or actions. Give them a reasonable amount of time to to pay you the debt. Say one month. This allows them to do the right thing. If they do not, report them.
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:33 pm
SouthernGent, I hope everything is working out as well as it can…I keep worrying about you guys. You prompted me to do my free credit check (which I had been putting off), so thank you for that.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Southern Gent, I don’t know your situation or your family’s character, but if it were mine, I would probably settle for an unsatisfying compromise like this.
1. Put the fear of God into them by ranting/threatening them to the maximum that the social norms for your family will allow.
2. Rather than follow through on above mentioned threats, make the arrangement more official by dragging them into a local credit union and have them apply for a consolidation loan in their name and co-signing to help them out on qualifying.
This does 2 important things. One, it takes them off revolving credit in your name! That way they can’t wrack up more. The second is that paper reflects the reality. You are helping family get the means to get a handle on their debt, but it is their debt and your goodwill.
As I said, unsatisfying, but functional.
April 26th, 2008 at 11:27 am
I’d report it. If they had the ability to take out a loan, or the money to pay me back, they wouldn’t have stolen my identity in the first place. They would’ve done so legally, instead. DUH!
April 29th, 2008 at 10:02 am
If you file a police report, it relieves you of the debt, but the debt is now transferred back to the bank. It is up to the bank now, not you, as to pursuing charges. So remember, if you file the report, you are taken out of the decision about charges being pressed, or so I believe; otherwise, you’d be still required to pay, I bet? If they (the bank) pursue charges, more than likely they will not get paid back, … right? The perpetrator will be in jail, especially with any debt over $1000, it becomes a class 1 misdemeanor, and/or a felony. I believe the credit card company will do everything they can to make the situation right, before pressing charges, even though the police report has been filed. Can anyone elaborate on that situation? You want to file a report to get the debt out of your name, but what becomes of the report, and who controls the fate to your family memeber? Just trying to play both sides.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:18 am
You cant report them! Its family! Where is everyones family values? Put a freeze on the cards so they cant spend any more, and make sure they make the payments every month until the balances are cleared. Teach them about debt repayment and frugality and help them to learn how to handle credit.
You cant turn in your own family - thats just wrong.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
You can’t steal tens of thousands from your family, ruin their good name - THATS just wrong. Family values is sometimes spelled “tough love”.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
What they have done IS wrong, but as mentioned in the article, they have not missed a single payment. Reporting them would do much more to ruin the family name. Your ‘tough love’ in this case should be to freeze the cards, as I and many other people have suggested, make it clear to them that what they have done is wrong and that they are solely responsible for the debt. Warn them that any misssed payments will result in them being reported, but at least give them a chance to make things right.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:11 am
Family or not, with that amount of money involved I’d go straight to the creditors.
I’d let the creditors know the true situation, give them the correct name and address of the borrowers, and then they could freeze the cards and deal with getting the debts paid back. Effectively it’d be like the debtors had gotten a loan under their own identities.
No need to get personally involved in ensuring the debt is repaid.
May 5th, 2008 at 6:03 am
similar case here but allittle morbid.
My wifes mom is dieing of cancer and my wife is caring for her full time.
We ran an annaul report on her and found out my wifes sister has opened two accounts in her mom’s name charged 11,800 in the last five months.The billing address is her sisters.It appears she took credit life out two.Is this a sick person or what?
Boatdoc1963@yahoo.com