For the first time since getting my finances in order, I’m facing a real test of nerves. It’s not that I’m spending frivolously or doing anything dumb. We’re having some electrical work done, and I’m finding the spending almost physically painful.
When we bought this hundred-year-old house in 2004, it had no insulation. We spent $2,400 to have blown-in insulation put in the attic. Now we’ve saved enough to have our 80-year-old knob-and-tube wiring replaced. This itself will be expensive, but the costs are compounded because in order to get at the wiring, the contractor needs to remove all of the blown-in insulation. It’s a nasty job, and adds another $1,500 to the bill. Then, of course, we’ll need to have the insulation replaced. (Note: We like our contractor — this isn’t a complaint about him, but about the money involved.)
This makes me very tense.
In fact, it makes me so tense that I’m going to stop writing about it. I’ll point you to other personal finance articles instead:
I’ve written before that recurring monthly expenses can tear a huge hole in your budget. Ramit at I Will Teach You to Be Rich has a solution. Use psychology against yourself to save money, he says, by going with the a la carte method. Instead of subscribing to magazines, to Netflix, to cable television, instead of paying for a gym membership that you never use, cancel your subscriptions and pay for these things only as you need them. The important thing (whatever you choose to do) is to be conscious of your spending.
Meanwhile, there’s a great article about Five Cent Nickel exploring the parallels between fitness and finance. Like me, Nickel has been focusing on fitness recently, and he’s discovered there are some very real similarities between a healthy physical lifestyle and a healthy financial lifestyle.
Finally, several people have sent me articles about people who grow their own food. Some of them include:
- MSNBC: As food prices rise, more people grow their now
- Epicurious: Seasonal ingredient map
- ABC News: Grow it yourself and save
- Minneapolis STar Tribune: Homegrown heats up
We’re finally picking strawberries and peas! But if the sun doesn’t get here, we won’t get much else this year…
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J.D. – why are you stressing? You’ve saved up enough, right? You shouldn’t be scared about spending it if you’ve saved up enough. You’ll be so happy when it’s all done!
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J.D.,
Money still has a hold on you if it makes you tense to spend it. Yes, its a good sum, but it’s necessary. And it’s life.
Being a saver instead of a spender is a big improvement, but it is like you polished a dirty coin. Flip to the other side where it doesn’t control your emotions or even how you identify yourself.
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You two are ABSOLUTELY correct, of course. I think Tim’s observation is especially astute. I’m still emotionally involved with my money. That’s not a good thing.
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Yes, you need to stop being emotionally involved with your money. You’re doing great! I think of money as a tool. You wouldn’t be emotionally invested in a tape measure or a hammer, right? Well, your checkbook is also a tool. It’s necessary, but it has no power on its own. You’re the one who directs how it’s used.
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Is there any part of this job you can do yourself? Removing insulation is rock simple, and if you keep it extremely clean (put it into extra-large garbage bags) you can blow the same stuff back in yourself using a blower you can rent at Home Depot.
Sure it’s messy, but think of it as a job. If someone were going to pay YOU $2k or so to do this job that will take, say, 10-15 hrs, you’d think about it, yes? Even if it takes 20 hrs you’re making $100/hr. If I lived in Oregon I’d come over and help.
DIY can be a fantastic way to save money IF you take on reasonable tasks. If you don’t feel comfortable with the wiring, then you save lots by having a pro do the work. But don’t pay electrician’s wages for insulation work!
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JD, From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring
Covering K&T with thermal insulation is unsafe and prohibited
Currently the United States NEC forbids use of loose, blown-in, or expanding foam insulation over K&T wiring.[2] This is because K&T is designed to let heat dissipate to the surrounding air. As a result, energy efficiency upgrades that involve insulating previously uninsulated walls usually also require replacement of the wiring in affected homes.
So it’s a good thing you’re going back and doing it right, its unsafe the way it currently is.
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Gasp! Where was your electrician when you were merrily blowing the stuff into the attic?
When M’hijito and I started working on the Renovation House, our electrician asked us to please not blow in insulation until we were were absolutely, positively SURE all the electrical work was done.
Well, be brave. It’s only money. You’ll be glad you got the work done.
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Is the tension related to the realization that your total cost is apparently some $3,900 more than it would have been had the electrical work been done prior to the insulation?
Whether due to financial constraints or inadequate information at the outset, I know that would definitely bother me.
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I have also recently written about the how weight loss is like wealth accumulation:
http://www.dontfeedthealligators.com/blog/7-ways-in-which-wealth-building-is-like-weight-control
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Great shot of the k&n. We gutted our 1920′s house a couple of years ago and the knob and tube was everywhere.
Your photos have been bringing back memories for me lately. Unfortunately this one wasn’t a good one!
Mike
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Funny About Money wrote: Gasp! Where was your electrician when you were merrily blowing the stuff into the attic?
Alas, it is a long story, but suffice it to say that we were naive when we bought this house, and we didn’t understand the implications of anything we did. We didn’t have an electrician yet. Now we have contractors we like, and when they saw this they just shook their heads.
Ace wrote: Is the tension related to the realization that your total cost is apparently some $3,900 more than it would have been had the electrical work been done prior to the insulation?
Yes yes yes yes yes. That’s exactly it.
I’m trying to avoid a rant here, but you see we had a TERRIBLE experience with the contractor that put in the insulation in the first place. They drilled through our wainscoting, fell through our ceiling, and knocked over our pantry shelves. They also installed a leaky roof vent. Twice. (Thereby causing water damage to our ceiling.) And now we find out that they blew in insulation over knob and tube wiring. We had no idea this was an issue (and had no idea there was knob and tube there in the first place) — but didn’t the insulation contractor? Basically, that $2,400 spent on insulation in the first week we owned this house has actually cost us THOUSANDS of dollars more than if we’d not done it at all.
But look. I’m getting tense again. MUST NOT WRITE ABOUT THIS. MUST NOT…
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I feel your pain, I really do, because we’ve BTDT quite a few times. Try to remember the concept of sunk costs, though. Here: http://economics.about.com/od/economicsglossary/g/sunkcosts.htm
You spent the $2400 because you thought it was a good idea at the time. Turns out it wasn’t, and you know what? OH WELL. You move forward, learn from your mistakes, and try not to sweat it. Not much point in trying to recoup that expense or kick yourself for your mistakes; now that you know better, you’ll do better.
(This philosophy comes in very handy with parenting, too, I might add!)
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We had a leaky roof when we moved in, and hired a brother-in-law to repair it. BIG mistake. He obviously knew very little about roofs (in retrospect), and actually built a second roof over part of the original structure. What a nightmare! Not only was it ugly & stupid, it aggravated the leaks. It took us years to accumulate enough funds to tear down his “work” and have it done properly. Our kids grew up being quite familiar with the “bucket brigade” whenever it rained–and we live in northern California, with its two seasons: Dry and Rainy. Never hire family, unless you’ve seen their work! AARGH
As for your K&T, good idea, get it done, get it rewired. Be happy you’ve enough funds to now do it!
We all live and learn, especially if you stay in a house long enough to revisit your original efforts
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Ah it will work out fine man. You’re healthy, you’re young… it will cost you, but you’ll recover. Look at the big big Universe we live in, look at how small and short our lives really are and you’ll see that this isn’t a significant problem at all.
On the less philosophical side…
Total Cost of Ownership, man. TCO! That’s why I don’t own my own house and thrive to live as simple and frugal as possible. Things require maintenance, maintenance is time AND money, it’s an obligation… or to quote Tyler Durden from the Fight Club: “The things you own end up owning you.”
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I’m closing on a house in two weeks and during inspection some knob and tube wiring was found. The seller got an estimate from an electrician: $3400. The seller offered to run the wire himself and have the electrician do the hookup and then have the township inspector come in and take a look at it all: $800.
I’m glad he knows how to run wire because I sure as hell don’t.
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There is such thing as letting money get the best of you and this defines it. Having the wiring done is not only a safety improvement, but also a peace of mind knowing your wiring will not burn your house down or do some other damage that you WISH you would have spent $3900 over the amount to prevent it in the first place. You have control of your finances – don’t fret about small petty amounts that will pay dividends in the later rounds.
I like the quote above from Fight Club! Great movie btw.
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JD, just ask yourself “In five years, will this matter to me, or will I be glad that I paid the money to do it RIGHT and keep my family safe from harm?”
Just to give you something to put it in perspective, I am closing on my new house next week. I have not yet sold my current property (costing me almost $900/month to carry). I have already spent $4000 on various professionals to inspect the new house (it was a foreclosure so I have no guarantees about the property whatsoever.) On top of that, my wife is pregnant with our second baby, and her work contract is done as of July 31.
Am I stressed? No. I know that the house, with a bit of work, will be an *excellent* investment, and it is in a beautiful area where I feel my children are safe. I have faith that my current property will sell, and on top of it all, I have a cash reserve (as inspired by you!) to help me carry it off.
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You can’t let the cost get to you. Knob and tube wiring is pretty dangerous with todays electrical demands. Also, whoever did the insulation should have known that surrounding knob and tube with loose fill is a code violation and can lead to fires. Whatever you pay it’s MUCH LESS than having the house burn down from an electrical fire. You need to get this done for everyone’s safety and peace of mind. (Hope I didn’t give you something else to worry about :O)
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I just bought a 100 yr old house and the insurance company said that all knob and tube wiring had to be removed within 30 days of closing. Thankfully I didn’t have any.
Regardless, I’m opting to replace nearly all of the plumbing and electrical which is ancient and inadequate. It will cost a small fortune, but will be a good long term investment.
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A lesson to everyone to get their home inspected before they buy so they know what should be upgraded and how. Also, to get references from any contractors you work with.
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Thanks, everyone, for supplying some perspective. I appreciate it. As I told Kris last night, what’s really bothering me is my sore leg, and because of that, every other little thing is causing me stress. It’s kind of strange how things cascade like that…
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Don’t worry .. think of all the money you won’t have to spend on the maintenance of your K&T wiring and how much you will save once your attic is insulated again!
The was an article in the Wall Street Journal in the last day or two talking about how sales of vegetable plants are way up at garden stores while sales of flowers is starting to drop noticeably.
I am on the verge of starting my own garden. I can still afford to buy the food I want at the store, but I want to be able to cook some green beans and then tell everyone at the table that I grew them myself. I feel almost like these gardens are some form of reverse victory garden …
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JD, that has got to be so frustrating. Blowing in insulation to the attic is really not hard. My dh and I did it in a morning. Here is the link to when I wrote about it. http://hubpages.com/hub/Blowing_Insulation_into_the_Attic
All told if I remember correctly it was around $200 to do it ourself? Good luck!
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JD, you’re not paying the contractor with Credit Cards are you? =)
Just think of the 15~20% interest rate you’re not paying on that $3,900. While that money lost hurts, at least you have emergency funds set aside to cover this setback. Even with that extra money spent, it’s a good investment in your house and removing that old wiring will increase your family’s safety. It’s worth it.
For all the good you’ve done me, I advise you go play a game of Wii or some other fun stress reliever, go for a walk if your leg is up to it, lift some weights, etc. Keep your chin up big guy!
Cheers, Mike
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JD-I’ll tell you the same thing I tell my wife when a big expense pops up (like replacing both AC units this year)…Take a deep breath. This will pass. It is why we have a savings account. It is a pebble on the road to wealth.
On a personal note, get rid of the wiring ASAP. This is a safety issue and your house needs to be brought up to code. I walked away from a great house because of wiring like this. I was an electrician but I was not willing to take on the expense and work.
Also, if you are even moderately handy do the insulation yourself. It will save you a ton, you know the job is done right, and you will get a lot of personal satisfaction.
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Wow, these comments are stressing me out, since I have an 80 yr old house with knob and tube and blown insulation on top of it. When we moved in a year ago, we found an insurance carrier who would cover K&T wiring (Allstate). Then we blew insulation without thinking. I was of course concerned when a friend informed me afterwards of the risk. But then we discussed it with a licensed electrician who we trust. He said it really wasn’t that big of a deal and told me not to worry. This comforted me for a few months….until now!
The other danger (aside from the awful thought of fire) is that at any point Allstate could inform us that they won’t cover us anymore. In our case, we would only be out about $400 for the previously blown insulation – a benefit of having a very small house!
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I think you’re right, when you don’t feel well it can make every other unpleasant thing feel even worse and you just have fewer resources to deal with them. I hope you can figure out some sort of pain control for the injury, getting that under control will help a lot.
In the meantime, by my quick calculation you have only spent a little more than $1.50/day on that first expense of insulation — and that doesn’t count the money it saved you on heating/cooling.
So, while spending more now is bound to be a pain, it’s not totally a loss…
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I have a friend who buys and renovates houses for a living. Although she’s very knowledgeable, sometimes new situations come up. So over the course of things she has made all kinds of mistakes, like blowing insulation before checking out the wiring, etc. Then when she discovers her mistake, she corrects it. What I’ve found most helpful is her attitude toward the extra money: “Well,” she says, “that’s what we call ‘tuition.’” And the key is that she really does learn each time. Nobody can know everything about house repair before they begin. So one way or another, we learn.
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JD, I think this is exactly why you chose to turn your financial situation around. Can you imagine what you would be feeling right now if you were still deep, deep in debt and living paycheck to paycheck? I am sure you would feel worse, much worse.
Don’t think of as a set back in your financial status. Think of it as a status, a mark, a symbol that you can now pay for things in cash instead of on credit. That is success, my friend. That is achievement. That is responsibility.
I’m proud of you! I hope I’m complaining about something I have to pay for with money that is in the bank after I get my credit cards paid off! You have every right to complain, of course, I would DEFINITELY be upset about that first contractor you had… but that’s life. You had foresight!! You saved yourself from debt, and now you can save your house from harm! Congrats!
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For those that are interested, I just found a little bit of background information on knob and tube wiring:
http://www.bowieservice.com/knob.html
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Its good that you’re replacing the old wiring.
I’d look at redoing the insulation yourself. As others have pointed out, blowing insulation isn’t that difficult. I’ve done it with my dad before and its pretty simple. You can rent a blower from Home Depot or Lowes.
Sounds like your insulation contractor really screwed up. If you haven’t yet then I’d look into filing a complaint about the contractor that did your insulation. If nothing else it would serve as a warning to other customers.
JIm
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we had that kind of wiring in our first house, we rewired the first year as our lights would dim blink when we ran the microwave
sometimes it just not always possible
we later had to have extra vents put on the roof and insulation blown in as part of a loan we got for a furnace
the company actually put 3 different color vents on our house ,I made them come change them out to ones that were matching and complement our roofing color , we try to do everything ourselves to both save money and to avoid contractors who seem not to think our old houses deserve quality workmanship, I am glad we accidently did the work in the right order
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New wiring is a worthwhile investment in your house, and you could argue that it’s, at the very least, somewhat essential.
It’s not like you are lamenting an expensive tiling job that you had recently done only to rip it out to install a new jacuzzi tub or something similarly non-essential.
Plus, “old home with updated electrical” can be very attractive to buyers when the time comes for you to sell.
In other words, chalk it up to lessons learned and don’t sweat it.
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Go shopping and relieve some of your stress man…
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Wow – can’t you just clip the K&T so that it is inactive and shove coduit through the blown insulation and then wire through the conduit?
In any case – sounds like you really can do quite a bit of the insulation removal and reblowing yourself.
Any other additions up there that you are going to make when you do this before you put the insulation back in? Solar tube type lighting? Solar powered attic fan to vent out the summer heat?
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I assume your current contractors know this, but just to make sure you don’t have to do the insulation a third time…
Make sure you don’t cover the soffit vents when you put the insulation back in. Proper attic ventilation can save you from trouble in the long run.
It’s also a good idea to get a blower test done, and find all the places air leaks into the attic. Plug ‘em up. Do this before putting the insulation back in and after the electrical work is done, since they’ll be putting holes in things
Have fun!
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When I saw what you had been living with, I thought well, he did save a ton with the insulation. But you know, you can sleep at night knowing that your house is no longer a fire hazard. You just can’t put a price on that in my book. So, look at the expense over the insulation as a wash and that you probably saved as much as you spent. Remember you won’t have to worry about the old wiring (priceless), the value of your home will only go up making it more marketable (I am always thinking about that) and you will win in the end when it is a done deal. Oh and you could rent the equipment and blow the insulation yourself.
Enjoy the new power, more outlets, no surges and the safety!
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What you are going through is a version of buyer’s remorse. You did something stupid because you were ignorant and didn’t go to the trouble of finding out what you should have found out in the first place. You knew it was a bad decision because the insulation contractor was such a screw up, but you didn’t have to face up to how bad it really was until now — when you realize you could probably have burned your house down.
Oh, well. That was then, this is now. You are no longer the person who made those mistakes, either mentally or physically. You have the money to fix the mistake, and it isn’t even a huge one compared, say, to replastering the walls without fixing the rotten sills. Spend the money. Accept it as the cost of the lesson, and let it go. You’ve earned it.
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There is nothing inherently unsafe about knob and tube wiring. We had no problem getting homeowners insurance once because our house inspectors had taken excellent notes and pictures of the wiring. We just sent the applicable pages of the inspection report to the insurance company and we were good to go. However, the insulation situation is probably not good. I agree with the posters who recommend trying to remove and replace the insulation yourself. Never pay a contractor to do work you can do just as well yourself. I’ll hire a wallpaper contractor to hang paper but never to strip it. Carpet guy to lay carpet, not to rip it up. The skill level to time ratio is all wrong.
p.s. That’s probably why the cost for the electrician to remove the insulation is so high. He is probably going to sub-contract it to someone else, it’s not worth his time.
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You may be able to offset some of the cost of the electrical work by selling the used knob and tube wiring, specifically the ceramic knobs. They sell for a bit to historically minded people and museums.
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Hey JD the good thing about replacing the wiring is it will quite possibly lower your insurance premiums. Call your agent and ask them to come to your house and look at the wiring upgrade and for any other suggestions that might help you save on your monthly premiums. There is always a bright side.
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Must you do blown insulation? Buy some rolls of insulation and roll out yourself. It won’t take long and it’s REALLY easy to remove if you need to do work.
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My understanding is that the rolled insulation leaves room for air convection to reduce how good it really is. Blown in insulation doesn’t have the same problem.
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JD, if you have a free moment (hah!) I would love to know who you are using for these two jobs. I also need to update my wiring and blow in some insulation, and I’m in the Portland area.
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JD – how did this all turn out? I have a drafty old house with knob and tube and am considering replacing the wiring so I can insulate.
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