RSS Feeds
Facebook
GRS Twitter
Allen recently attended a family wedding that put a hole in his budget. He wonders how to cope with societal pressure to spend:
How do you deal with social situations where you have to spend? I just had to spend $300 to go to a cousin’s wedding. I couldn’t not go — it’s family. But I couldn’t get in wearing what I own, because it wasn’t “good enough” and I couldn’t just go rent something because:
- It wasn’t that much cheaper, really.
- I only found out the day of the wedding that my clothes were not “good enough” to even get in to where the wedding was held.
These sorts of situations are awkward. What’s the best way to handle them?
This question goes beyond the common problem where you feel pressured to have a drink after work, which we’ve covered before. Allen’s question is more about deeply-ingrained societal obligations to spend, like weddings, graduations, birthdays, and anniversaries.
His specific example involves big numbers, but these sorts of things occur more frequently on a smaller scale: the endless cycle of children’s birthday parties, passing the envelope at the office, school fundraisers, your sister-in-law’s candle party. Last month, Betsy Teutsch shared a guest post about wedding registries that touched on similar emotions.
What can you do when placed in these situations, especially if money is tight? Can you simply say, “I can’t afford it. I can’t come.”? Can you budget for social obligations? Or is it best to believe that things will “come out in the wash” eventually — that one day it’ll be you hosting a child’s birthday party, hosting a tupperware party, or asking guests to wear fancy clothes to a wedding?
This article is about Ask the Readers, Real-Life Friday, 27th June 2008 (by J.D. Roth)
June 27th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Two friends of mine got married recently. A grandmother helped them out– she offered to subsidize guests. I couldn’t go for time reasons, but they would have contributed some money toward the significant travel costs.
My family is not your family, my place in my family is not your place in yours. At this 24-year-old student point, it is perfectly fine to say, “I’m sorry, I wish I could be there, but money’s tight right now,” as long as you do it early enough. Afterward, if someone helps pay, maybe mention to people that you thought the venue was a little demanding… or show up in your best clothes, be turned away, and make it the family’s problem that the venue doesn’t think you’re good enough. It’s possible that the couple wasn’t aware that they required a higher standard than their relatives had in their closets… and if they knew you’d have to spend a lot of money you don’t have, and did it anyway, why go to the wedding?
Again, this is 24-yr-old-student advice. The only wedding I’ve paid for was last year, and I was the only relative of my generation that paid her own plane fare. If the venue folks had said, “Oh, I’m sorry, you are dressed too informally,” as I walked in, they would have had to deal with a lot of pissed-off relatives.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:16 am
I’m definitely on the side of declining because it’s too expensive. Send a card that explains it if you feel guilty, but asking someone to spend $300 just for your big day is rediculous.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:22 am
I have to agree with chad on this topic $300 is just to much, I would have sent a $100 gift card and saved myself the difference. If it had been mentioned earlier or in the invite what the dress requirements was then that might be a little different.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:23 am
I would just avoid having a family or friends. It’s much less expensive that way.
Otherwise, use the local thrift store to outfit yourself for the occasion. You can donate the clothes afterward.
I always thought it was stupid to buy an expensive dress to wear once then put in a box in the attic.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:29 am
I cannot for the life of me imagine requiring someone to spend $300 to be part of my wedding, let alone attend my wedding. I think that if I was close enough to someone to be required to go to the wedding, I would be close enough to upbraid them for selfish choices with no consideration for others. A simple note declining should be sufficient, and this bridezilla nonsense needs to addressed.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:35 am
Unless it was an immediate family member (like my sister), I would have just said — hey, sorry, but it’s too much. I just can’t go. That’s when you send them cash with your RSVP “no” (obviously, only what you could afford). And if it was someone as close to me as my sister or mother or father, then I’d expect them to help me attend the wedding if I was financially unable to.
I’m planning a wedding soon and unfortunately I know a lot of guests will be unable to attend, as it’s just far enough they won’t want to spend that much in gasoline. (Of course this is also a good thing because we could not afford them all anyway)
Wear your Sunday best to that venue and see what happens, just don’t be an ass about it. Or find a consignment store or something a little nicer than a thrift store, you could probably dress very nicely that way without spending the big bucks.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:47 am
When I had my wedding I wasn’t expecting a lot of my family to show up because of the fact that most of them would have to fly. I have a HUGE family and there are lots of times when people just can’t make it or afford to fly these days. I bet a simple “I just don’t have the funds right now” with maybe a white lie of “I don’t have that much vacation time built up yet at my job.” should be enough to cover most family members.
But there will always be that ONE person who makes a stink about it. My mom and I have barely spoken to her sister for the last 4 years because my aunt was SO angry that I couldn’t find a way to scrounge up airfare from FL to MN, rent a car to get to the little town 3 hours away, pay for gas, get a hotel room in the bigger little town an hour away, cancel my vacation back to see my immediate family later in the year that I had been pinching pennies to do in the first place, and get time off from my 3 month old job to come to her last minute wedding.
Honestly I think you can look at the amount of money that the couple makes to get your guess on how they will react. If they make a ton of money, have a over the top venue, and expect you to pay a ton just to get there and dress for it - then unfortunately, they are probably going to be the ones the most disappointed that you didn’t come.
The laid back, easy, inexpensive wedding couple probably know more about their finances and are probably frugal like you and are willing to be more forgiving!
June 27th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Stop caring what other people think. It’s that simple. It frees up your life (and money) in spectacular ways.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:57 am
Perhaps the greatest money saving feat I ever accomplished was to convince my good friend NOT to have his wedding in Europe and force everyone in the wedding party (me included) to come along. That would have been the ultimate in socially obligated spending, and just plain inconsiderate really.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:57 am
To me it’s about why you are saving. If you have a minimum-wage job and you are trying to kill an albatross of a debt that has ruined your life for the last five years — by all means decline. If you have a decent job and savings, or are well on the path to same, and you basically just like saving money and dislike the expense, well, that’s just being selfish. There’s nothing about being frugal that says you have to be a hermit or abandon societal reciprocity — I’m thinking here of JDR’s reference to children’s birthdays, which should be seen as a kind of investment in community; weddings aren’t that different.
What I’m hearing from Allen is that he didn’t want to go to the wedding anyway or disliked being told that his suit wasn’t up to snuff, so it’s not strictly a monetary issue. Not affording it is different from being cheap or not wanting to interact with extended family or the like. Or at least I can’t disentangle those issues, the way it’s presented in Allen’s message. Don’t blame money for the obligations you owe people; if it really is money you’re worried about, then of course decine politely.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:02 am
We have this problem with weekend trips. The in-laws live 2.5 hours away, and we’re all very close, but it’s expensive for us to drive there every time they have a BBQ or get-together. Even if we host, we still have the added expenses of providing food, which as a host, I will absolutely do.
We try to pick and choose what we attend, but I still feel bad when we decline.
As for weddings, I honestly think they’ve gotten ridiculous, and this is from someone who just got married three months ago. Our wedding wasn’t frugal by any means (not in my opinion, anyway), but our top priority was the comfort of our guests. I’ve been to so many weddings where guests seem like an afterthought. The wedding and reception are miles and hours apart without much parking, there are no maps, the food is horrible, cash bar (and sometimes even for water!), ballroom attire required. We think it’s better to make it easy on your guests, after all, they are already spending money to come to your wedding, and I’m 100 percent against doing anything at a wedding that requires guests to have cash on them. I also think you should consider the people who don’t have the money to buy a tux or ball gown, unless your whole family is wealthy.
I think more people should consider that these events are not “all about them.” It’s about friends and family, too. Our family members still talk about the great time they had at our wedding, and that’s exactly what we’d hoped–that everyone remembers it as a great time, not the wedding that put them into debt or that they couldn’t afford to attend.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:02 am
We try to save up for things like weddings and special events. We’re not to a point where we’re often invited to parties for children we’re not related to, so those are all budgeted for. If we can’t afford it, though, we just respond “No”.
I’ve never had something like Allen’s situation sprung on me at the last minute. For family I probably would have done it, but there are some other situations were I may have just given up and gone home. Even if I had already RSVPd “Yes.”
June 27th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Our son is getting married in another country this fall (at his fiancee’s hometown) and we made it clear to family and friends right from the beginning that we have no expectations of anyone attending. The ones who like the idea of traveling and have the money are coming, the others are not. No hard feelings and no pressure. It’s too much to expect people to fork out a load of money for a one day event, esp. if $ is tight. Don’t worry about it and do what you can afford. If someone offers to pay, take them up on it
June 27th, 2008 at 6:11 am
We are going on a cruise next month and last night I bought a cocktail type black dress that will work great for $20. If you anticipate events and try to stock your wardrobe to be ready for unexpected events it is easier to catch bargains. I buy ahead, usually out of season, to keep my closet stocked.
I also keep my pantry stocked for quick meals and can entertain quickly.
In the event of weddings, I think you can find great gift items and clothing if you shop ahead. If you find out about a dress code that day and cannot find a bargain when you shop I would miss the event before I would blow money that I did not have to buy one outfit. I don’t think you have to get a gift off their registry. It is a guideline and actually in poor taste for the bride to post a list. It is for the attendant to let people know about. Brides today have lost the manners and gratitude of a gift and expect a certain amount be spent. It is their most important day and they expect everyone else to be as excited about it.
I guess it is me, but I make other excuses if an event is not what I want to put my money into. I never told people that I didn’t have the money. I always used another excuse like we were unable to attend because we had another obligation or something. (An obligation not to go broke on your event!)
June 27th, 2008 at 6:22 am
If the wedding was sprung on you at the last minute, that’s like a family emergency that you either help out with or don’t. If you had plenty of notice, that’s more like a family tradition/birthday/holiday spending decision. Either way, feelings are usually hurt unless you do spend a certain expected amount.
I used to spend lavishly on gifts for my family members, getting more broke all the time. My family understood that one year I was taking control of my financial situation, but still surprisingly shocked when that Christmas I gave gifts that were only $20 - $30 each to each of them. One of my sisters even starting crying she was so disappointed! *Sigh.* It was tough, but they finally got the message that I just can’t afford it. Since then, I have spent more on coworkers and friends than my family b/c I was traumatized by that Christmas and just don’t want to go through that again.
However, this post has made me reconsider. So, I’ll be stronger now. Thanks, Trent!
June 27th, 2008 at 6:28 am
I have taken I new tack for things I can’t do: I say I am “unavailable”. Most people actually don’t ask for an excuse or reason, unless you are married to that person or it’s your best friend (who knows your whereabouts and situations already).
As for making clothing purchases, I do my best with my resources. I have gone to thrift stores and purchased very beautiful, ‘lightly used’ (or new-store castaway) clothing for special occasions when I didn’t have the right outfit already. No one at the event knew whether my outfit was mine or had previously been someone else’s.
And, for what it’s worth, about the comment made above by ‘Rachel’ - whose aunt had a last minute wedding and was angry that Rachel (a niece) wasn’t able to afford and arrange attendance at the aunt’s sudden wedding. I have noticed (from my own wedding) that the bride cannot visit with everyone who attends; attendance for all these events is symbolic anyway. The aunt seemed like she needed something to be angry about… No one ‘has to’ do ANYTHING social in life, and that includes weddings, dinners, or funerals. A simple “I am so very sorry, I am completely unavailable - to where may I send a gift?” hopefully would have helped.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:41 am
I don’t do weddings unless they are immediate family. Theoretically I’d go to a very small handful (3 maybe) of close friends’ weddings but none of them have actually gone through with it yet.
I’ve actually only been to one wedding and although we managed to get by with very little expense at that one, I found the whole affair to be generally unpleasant.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:45 am
JD-good question. First you have to remember that you can always say no. You may be uncomfortable. Your family and friends may be upset. None of this matters.
Be firm but friendly. Most people will understand. If they keep pushing become more firm and less friendly.
Right now you are desperately trying to get your finances under control. You are in crisis mode trying to keep your head above water. It is irresponsible to expect much from you financially.
I just did a post that is on a similar topic. Even though the initial request is different the decision making process is identical.
In a year or two you will have a savings built up to handle there things. This problem then goes away.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:49 am
There shouldn’t be any problem with telling people that you can’t afford to go to their wedding. My wife and I had our wedding last year in her hometown, which entailed a flight for most of my family, and we understood (even expected) that some people wouldn’t be able to make it as a result. The only exceptions I would consider would be very close family, or friends that are as good as family.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:49 am
I’m getting married at the end of August this year. I am having a destination wedding of sorts and understand that some people can’t afford it. I saw some family this weekend and my cousin simply said “I’m sorry, I can’t go because I can’t afford it.”
I’m totally cool with that.
A wedding isn’t meant to put your family out of sorts. If the couple is so uptight that they can’t handle a “I’m sorry, I just can’t afford to go.” Then maybe you aren’t really missing out. Additionally I’m not expecting anyone to go out of their way to get me a gift.
My advice would be to send them a heartfelt card that expresses your support and happiness for them. That’s what it is all about.
The point isn’t to make feel people guilty. I’m just happy to celebrate the occasion and wish everyone could come but am reasonable.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:51 am
I’m inclined to think that we need to maintain loving relationships, by all means, yet we also need to be ‘outside the box’ independent thinkers concerning money, given our spendthrift culture. More at http://www.diamondcutlife.org/.
Alison Wiley
Portland, Oregon
June 27th, 2008 at 6:52 am
I just don’t buy the clothes excuse. It sounds like the commenter was a guy having to rent a tux.
Unless the wedding is black tie (not that common), they won’t kick you out. If it is black tie, it said that on the invitation. It wouldn’t be a surprise. Even if it is black tie, you can get in with a black suit and a bow tie.
If you don’t have clothes nice enough to wear to a wedding/graduation/christening/funeral, that’s not the wedding’s fault.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:56 am
I have actually heard brides in shock when everyone RSVP’s a “yes” and she doesn’t get any “regrets” back within the first couple of weeks. She was starting to panic that her hall wouldn’t be large enough.
Consider perhaps that by not attending, you are saving the bride’s family, or perhaps the couple, the cost of your attendance, sometimes upwards of $20 per plate, plus alcohol.
So don’t feel TOO obligated.
The couple is merely delighted to hear from you and receive your RSVP in a timely manner so they can plan accordingly.
Their day will be wonderful either way. Send your RSVP back immediately if you can’t come, because they might be able to ask someone in your place (if space is tight).
June 27th, 2008 at 6:57 am
Weddings and related event costs can get out of hand, quickly. I don’t think it is a coincidence that the weddings I’ve most enjoyed attending have been less outlandish, for both guests and the married couple themselves (including my wife’s best friend’s wedding where the couple hand-made a lot of items, including invitations and favours).
The trouble comes when additional costs for guests are a) unannounced and b) excessive. It seems like this instance fits both those categories. If for some reason your wedding is going to antagonise your guests then it is worth double-checking whether your requirements are reasonable or not.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:11 am
My sister’s nephew (very wealthy) got married and the inn where the out of town family stayed was $400 a night! My sister felt like they couldn’t NOT stay there, since there was all that family bonding time, but I think wealthy people should pick up the tab when they do this. I would have stayed at the nearest Holiday Inn!
Here’s my challenge. I hate staying 5-6 hours at weddings and listening to really loud bands, too loud to have meaningful conversations over. I would be happy to go to the ceremony and the cocktails, and leave. This would save the couple a bundle. But it’s awkward. Brides and grooms, how would you feel if a guest replied “Yes to ceremony and cocktails, no to the sit-down dinner”?
June 27th, 2008 at 7:11 am
This is an interesting issue for me because I am getting married in August. Many of our nearest and dearest (including my entire immediate family) live in other parts of the country and must fly out for the wedding. Our friends don’t have much money, and frankly, neither do we. (We are keeping the wedding simple, if not tiny). I would hate for anyone to feel obligated to come if it were too much of a burden, financially or otherwise. My solution was to e-mail or call each of my far-flung friends individually to let them know that I invited them because I cared about them, and that I would love it if they could come. But I also told them that I understood completely if they couldn’t make it, for whatever reason (too far to travel, no time, no vacation, scheduling conflicts etc). Part of it too is that we’ve had a fairly short engagement (less than six months from proposal to wedding), and it seems unfair to expect people to drop everything just because this is when we wanted to get married.
It’s also an interesting question what people require of their attendants. We are trying to ask as little financially from our attendants as possible, which isn’t that difficult, given the informality of our wedding. In fact, I think the fact that our wedding is so modest budget-wise makes all of it easier. We can’t spend a fortune on people, and thus we wouldn’t expect them to spend a fortune in return. I think perhaps the inverse may be true for some folks.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:12 am
It’s ok to not go. I live in NJ and my cousin lives and got married in Baltimore. The wedding was a Sunday evening, and would have required a one or two night hotel stay in order for us to attend. Plus, we just opened a business and are short on cash and time.
I felt terrible, but I had to decline. Etiquette says you have up to a year to send a gift, and I haven’t done that yet either (though I actually have saved a little and plan to send it this month with a note expressing my apologies for not being able to make it - that’s not bad for an April wedding).
Same thing happened when I was IN a wedding in October. The dress the bride picked was somewhat reasonable, but sort of expensive; but we HAD to have the shoes dyed, HAD to have the matching wrap, etc; the maid of honor was less than willing to negotiate with the bridesmaids on the location of the shower; That wedding ended up costing me much more than I had on hand to spend at a very rough time.
It happens. You can’t let it make you feel bad or guilty. Just move on…
June 27th, 2008 at 7:12 am
I’m with Southern. I try to anticipate in advance what might be needed for the year. I purchased a dress on clearance at Macy’s for a mere eighteen dollars and I can use that for weddings or other events. The hardest part is trying to put aside monetary gifts– especially unexpected ones like getting a grad invitation from neighbors who moved out of state–ouch!
June 27th, 2008 at 7:13 am
This particular situation was rough. He knew about the wedding, but not about what to wear. On the day of the wedding, it’s not likely you’ll find something in a thrift shop, re-sale shop, or garage sale or be able to find someone to borrow something from.
I’m guessing he now has a tux because his dark suit wasn’t good enough. At least he can re-use this if he can stay the same size!
I like Southern’s ideas of getting prepared for things like this when you do have time. I did recently decide to start looking for a little black dress, and several months later I found a great one for $3 plus dry-cleaning (which I have since used on a cruise and at a company party). I did manage to go 44 years without having one, though, by being creative in a way that wasn’t allowed here. But it’s good for you to have something to wear to weddings (summer and winter), funerals, interviews (and some companies require more than one interview!), formal events, swimming events, messy activities (like house painting), cold outdoor activities (like skiing), and sweaty outdoor events (like picnics).
I tend to just go along with things, although I suspect my friends deliberately don’t ask me to do expensive things. My parents subsidize trips, and now I also subsidize family members for activities that are once-in-a-lifetime activities. And I subsidize friends for things I really, really want them to join me on. And I have accepted a subsidy (harder!) when someone really wanted me to join him.
I probably should get better at turning people down for things that are expensive that I don’t really want to do anyway (although you never really know what’s going to turn out to be fun until it’s too late).
June 27th, 2008 at 7:13 am
A few random thoughts:
*Yes, you can budget for social obligations. And really, if you’re continually balking at spending money on people that are presumably close to you, you’ve left frugal and are entering “miser” territory.
*Yes, you can regret. I nixed a birthday party for one of my kid’s classmates because her parents live in a distant exurb from the urban center where they attend preschool.
*Further, for kids, create a new social norm among your friends where gifts are not requested at birthday parties.
*As for the $300 expenditure on clothes for a wedding, it sounds like the reader needed to buy a suit, since tux rentals are only ~$75. If so, bud, you probably needed a suit generally. Think of it as an investment in the future. It will serve you well for future weddings, funerals, and other occasions.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:21 am
I’m totally with Gwyneth (#5) when she said, “this bridezilla nonsense needs to be addressed”. I got married last summer and made my wedding very affordable for everyone, including the attendants.
I am standing up in my friend’s wedding this fall (she stood up in mine - it cost her about $60 including the dress) and it is costing me easily $500 - not including the wedding gift. Insane!
June 27th, 2008 at 7:29 am
This is a subject that always gets me going. I have attended countless weddings (sometimes second and third weddings for the same people) and have been forced to buy gifts for people while I never got anything in return. I have not gotten married yet and I have no kids. For at least 10 years, I have been buying gifts for people because I felt like I had to.
I came to a conclusion that I just simply will not go to weddings anymore. The only exception will be my brother when he gets married. Other than that, I am done. In my opinion, most weddings are a large waste of money and a big show that no one remembers a month later anyway. They just aren’t for me.
If and when I get married, I will have a small wedding and take 1/16 of what a wedding costs and have a nice honeymoon. The rest will be saved.
As far as kids birthday parties, pampered chef parties, tupperware parites etc… Those also get on my nerves. I usually will not attend a childs birthday party. I make it clear if I go to a tupperware party (or pampered chef or whatever the party is) that I am not going to buy anything. Most of my friends know I have the attitude ‘if I don’t need it I don’t buy it’. They don’t really get it.
I know it could sound like I’m being snobbish or way too frugal, but in reality I just don’t feel like buying items every time I turn around for birthdays or weddings is a good use of my money.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:42 am
There’s no concrete advice that can be given, since everyone’s situations are so different. With our small circle of friends, we’ve all spent a pretty penny to fly out to each others’ weddings (sometimes even paying for those that can’t afford it). The hosts have always considered people’s presence enough, so gifts in this circle are discouraged. Even though the money’s still gone, it’s been nice not to feel shaken down, and the cummulative experiences have been worth it.
For smaller things, I’d probably be inclined to turn down things that aren’t from best friends and close family. And I’m fully convinced that when you can’t afford anything, a thoughtfully composed card should suffice. Those who feel “cheated” can, well, just feel that way.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:47 am
I have 13 first cousins, many of whom are on their second marriages. I used to feel I had to go to every wedding, christening, etc. I have learned to say no. I don’t say I can’t afford it, I say I have a work conflict or whatnot. I can then afford to send a small gift. Most of the time, unless we are really close, they don’t mind - they have 150 other guests!!!
This way, when something is REALLY important (a friend who got married right after her Dad died), I have the money to go - and then I feel really good about being there - not obligated or tense or resentful.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:50 am
P.S. A good friend recently suggested we go to a very expensive restaurant for her bday. I had already spent $40 on a group gift, and am flying to spend her bday with her in her hometown. Since we’ve been friends so long, I felt I could say “I feel awkward about this, but I am feeling anxious about my finances. I really want to celebrate with you, is there a less expensive place you would enjoy?”
She responded so positively, and now we are grilling in her backyard!
June 27th, 2008 at 7:55 am
I honestly think that there’s a fairly large faction of people that purposely make their weddings expensive, excessively formal or in some out of the way place simply to keep it small. One of my cousins had her wedding in the Grand Caymans. That kept it to about 40 people. It probably saved them a lot of money - what they spent for the exotic location, they made up in less food and drink. We’re a big Irish family and we can put a serious hurting on an open bar.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:57 am
This is so interesting, because this was just the issue we dealt with this past weekend, and since I’m new to this whole “frugal” thing, I didn’t deal with it the best way I probably could have.
My friends all wanted to go in on a gift, and I felt that the total per couple was too much. I had an e-mail all written up explaining that money was kind of tight, but at the last minute “chickened” out. I know I need to get past my embarrassment of not being as financially well-off as my friends, but it was hard for me to not “go with the crowd”, and we ended up giving more than I wanted to for both the wedding gift and the bachelorette party (which was the same weekend).
I’m enjoying reading all the comments about how others deal with this situation- what a great way to share “strategies” and experiences with these similar money “woes”. I’m confident that next time, as I become stronger about my convictions when it comes to being more frugal, I’ll be able to handle the situation much better.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:00 am
The wedding industry has gotten out of control, but I can understand the sense of obligation. I turned to Emily Post for advice and she didn’t disappoint
“The amount spent on the gift should be based on your affection for and relationship with the couple – or their families – as well as your budget. People sometimes say that a wedding gift should cost at least as much as the bride and groom are spending on entertaining each person at the reception, but that is a myth.”
June 27th, 2008 at 8:05 am
Just a side note - I have to agree with everyone on here about the suit.
Maybe travel and gifts and stuff might be too expensive for this particular event, but all men need to have at least one respectable dark suit in their wardrobe. (And women a dark dress THAT FITS!) I’m guessing you needed a tux this time around, but what if you needed to go to a funeral in two days? You never know. My husbands father died unexpectedly and with all the horrible plans we had to make, we had to go out and find him a suit to wear on top of all that. Bad, bad planning on our part.
P.S. And about the garage sale suits - come on people. I know this from experience. My father (who has no other reason to wear a suit other than weddings and funerals) brought a navy blue pin striped suit with a mismatched tie that was too small in the cuffs and legs and thought that would be alright to wear to both my wedding and my sisters. There is a big difference between being frugal and being a cheapskate!
June 27th, 2008 at 8:07 am
I really appreciate the thought and energy people have put forward here so far. I, in fact, do shop at thrift stores for my cloths, the very few times i need to buy them a year. I think it’s great advice for most people, and for most situation. you can get great deals.
As for the “just don’t go;” That would have NOT BEEN AN OPTION. That is, if i ever wanted to see my family again. The wedding was only 1.5 hours from where i live, roughly. On top of that, i like seeing my relatives, even if their social dynamic is different then my own. There are situations, especially with family, in which one party expects you to have more money/resources [in this case nice cloths] then I do. They aren’t trying to be mean, they are just from such a different social-bracket, that they did not even consider that i would not have the cloths needed to get into the country club.
@dotatemyfinances: Just becuase the invite said the country club, did not mean that i knew what was needed to get _into_ the country club. ;P
A big part of this issue, for me, was having to deal with family’s expectations from a very different world.
and YES, i know i probably needed a nice jacket, and pants, and shirt, and tie, and brown shoes: But i did not need to spend it all in one day!
Thankfully I am not in debt right now, i’m just trying to build my emergency fund. This wedding ate up the entirety of what i had saved so far. I am forced to think that this is one of those stupid times when dipping into it is needed/useful. It just feels stupid to be buying cloths from that fund. :[
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful responses so far!
June 27th, 2008 at 8:08 am
There is no absolute obligation to spend in any social setting. It should really be a question of individual priorities and where your sense of social obligation fits in relative to your other spending.
Treat money like time. You only have so much to work with. If there were another wedding on the same day, you’d have to choose. If you have other uses for your money, you have to choose.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:09 am
The general rule for invitations is that you are *asking* someone if they could join you in celebrating ‘whatever’; it’s not an order to attend. Sadly, people feel an obligation and get pressure if it’s an important family event like a wedding. A good host (whether it’s a couple marrying or any party) focuses on their guests–that’s their role. When people are far away or can’t make it for financial or any reasons, the invitation should be treated as a wedding announcement–send a note of congrats with your RSVP regreting you’re unable to make it. You’re under no obligation to give a reason. You should still send a gift, but make it appropriate to your financial circumstances and the closeness of the relationship of the couple.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:11 am
@Carrie:
Wow! as much as they spent! Scary [if i had had to have done that!]! Unfortunately, with something like that, this “myth” is not one, not if those people/recipients are the ones who believe it, then you are just the “jerk,” to them. :[
June 27th, 2008 at 8:14 am
I like the advice of “Southern” to keep a stock of suitable gifts for childrens parties and suchlike. I’ll start doing that as my daughter grows a little older and starts attending friends’ birthday parties.
Martin (#10) writes that is seems selfish not to want to spend on friends and relatives weddings, birthdays etc. I can agree to some extent, but I think the problem with “socially obligated spending” is that it seems (to me at least) to be ever increasing.
Is this really what most of us want, or are we just doing it because it is what we think others expect? For instance, if you’re a parent, isn’t it easier to just go ahead and buy a slightly more expensive gift to your childs friends party than to be the one raising the issue of money? I’ve heard friends and coworkers complain about how their kids’ going to 10+ birthday parties a year is becoming expensive. But all seem reluctact to questing the amount of money spent.
And no, I don’t think it “washes out”. Really, if I go to a wedding where I need to buy a tux, how can that wash out? Yes, if it makes me happy to see other people in tux on my own wedding… but it won’t. I’ll be as happy if they just show up just with any decent clothes.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Reading through this, I realize that we are only getting one side of the story. I’m not sure what to make of not knowing what to wear. If it is true that Allen didn’t know about the “dress code” for the wedding because it was never mentioned anywhere, then it is rather arrogant that no one told him of it. As far as “not ‘good enough’”, was he even wearing a suit and tie?
To be quite frank, I’m not sure what I would do in that situation. $300 is a lot of money on the spur of the moment. It seems odd that he wouldn’t know of it until the day of the wedding, and even odder that he couldn’t rent a tux (as another poster mentioned). I mean, a new tux would need a fitting, right? How much longer would it take to make a couple of phone calls to some other places? Did he fly there? If it were me and I had drove, I frankly might just turn around and go home, just based on what he’s saying. I don’t need family that springs inconsiderate surprises like that.
I have to question the fact that he felt pressured to go to a wedding of his cousin, though. A brother or sister I can understand, but a cousin? I have more than a couple (understatement) of first cousins, and I can’t see going to each and every affair they have. I’d certainly go broke very quickly. I would probably send them gifts, and that would be about all, unless it was one I had a special relationship with. Even if it were a brother or sister, I would have trouble getting past the expectation that I would just “know” what to show up in beyond what I would wear to church (which, I’ll admit is surprising what some wear to church even).
June 27th, 2008 at 8:15 am
I understand that not going isn’t an option here, but I also don’t think we can expect ourselves or others to accept every invitation we’re ever issued. I also don’t think it’s necessary to give a reason when declining to attend for financial considerations. A wedding has to be held somewhere, and invariably there will be guests who have to travel some distance to it, or decide not to attend. That’s life, and friends and family will understand, and if they don’t, the problem is theirs. “I wish I could be there” and a card and/or a gift is more than sufficient. Many people, even those planning on attending, don’t even bother to Rsvp these days, so your on-time reply and heartfelt note (and gift, if you choose) will be appreciated. There’s no need to make the couple feel guilty about your financial situation. They may be feeling guilty already because a wedding is a complicated thing, everyone has an opinion, and you can’t please everyone. That said, it’s my feeling that our ties to family and friends are one of the best investments we can make in life, so this is an area worth budgeting for (a good suit/dress to last years, modest gifts, some travel occasionally).
June 27th, 2008 at 8:15 am
I have to say I’m confused.
They showed up to a wedding with attire considered inappropriate for ENTRY?
What were they wearing?
Look, if you have a wedding to go to EVER you should have something decent to wear - thrift store or not - [also communions, funerals, other 'nice' events] and I’ve only ever heard of a dress code being ‘black tie’ or not - if it was it would have said so ON the invitation. So there should be no surprise.
My assumption here is that some unpleasant family member told the person it was not good enough? The answer? “Gee thanks for your support - this is what I”m wearing - hope we’re sitting together since it’s been such fun chatting!”
Otherwise I’m really stumped here
On the actual question - how to deal with socially obligated spending - you budget for it and you decline what you can’t afford - wedding registries? don’t follow them if it’s out of your range - get what you want and woe to the rude newlyweds who spurn a gift given with love - karma is a tough thing to deal with!
We have three kids and dh has both a large family and a job that involves a lot of invitations as well. ‘Gifts’ is one of our biggest budget items LOL - but we manaage - children’s gifts are bought on clearance and stored up, wedding gifts are checks in an appropriate amount and when we can get out of going we decline and send a smaller check [but still send the gift], other family things - new babies etc - we havea budget - it works out to roughly the same amount every year - it probably does for most people if you track it - the new babies turn into birthdays and communions etc and then graduations and then weddings and then new babies again LOL
June 27th, 2008 at 8:16 am
@Dylan, Leslie, &c:
Sometimes you DO have go to go something like this. For me, it is my first cousin’s first wedding. I do love her, and that side of my family.
For some of us, Family is FAMILY. That means you do anything for them, and they will do anything for YOU. I have started to realize as i get older, that not everyone has a close relationship with their family. I feel sorry for them, and try to remember the warmth, and happiness i do get from my family (when i am not spending more money then i am comfortable with. ;)) At the end of the day, it IS just money.
Ok, yes, i can choose to not go. That choice would irrepribly damage my relation with those… relations. It is not as cut and dry as we wish it could be! I could have gotten away with saying to a FRIEND that i couldn’t go, due to money, and I HAVE: But family is different.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:18 am
I would use the money that is saved in my emergency fund, to deal with an ‘emergency’ invitation that I had not already budgeted for - which I must attend.
Emergency funds can be for leaky roofs, replacement gaskets or for last-minute unplanned events, that’s why it’s called an ‘emergency’ fund
I hope you have a great time at the wedding Allen, and best wishes to the bride and groom.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Weddings really seem like they are getting way too expensive. Not only for guests but for the wedding couple. It almost seems like they are putting on a party to make money. Something is wrong with that picture.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:21 am
@cherie:
The invite said that it was being held at the country club. I just didn’t know what that required. There is a step down from black-tie (but this was real close!).
I agree being able to work money for something like this into an “Unexpected” money category is a great idea. It’s just hard right now, as i easily could have gone into debt for this if i hadn’t had SOME money put away (all respect to JD for getting me into a mind-place where i could start to put some away at all!). I am sure it is hard for many other people just starting, before you have that fund.
Maybe my sitch. is unique. Saying no wouldn’t have been an option, but my family, i am sure, didn’t MEAN to have a get-to-gether that was more ritzy then my wardrobe is used to.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:25 am
I can’t wait to read the responses to this post. It couldn’t come at a better time. We leave for my brother’s wedding next week and he lives in Sweden. It’s costing us a small fortune because the dollar is so weak and airline travel is so expensive. We have Mr Bush’s rebate to thank for some of our trip and a heafty tax refund.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Interesting problem. I think the main premise of the question is that, are occasional expenses for the sake of keeping strong ties with family and friends justified? Personally I think yes. I think it is up to the couple to decide what sort of ceremony they wish to have for their guests. On the other hand I do think guests have a right to decline invitations if the couple make unreasonable demands on their time and money. For example, choosing to have their wedding on a week day instead of a weekend, forcing you to take time off work. Having it in an exotic location and expecting all the guests to fork out for a plane ride and hotel when they could have had it in the countryside. You having to fork out for a suit? I don’t think that’s a big problem.
Everyone should and usually does have clothes set aside for special occasions and if you don’t you should save up for it. I would be embarassed turning up to a special occasion wearing an overtly casual outfit. It could be a gender difference - most women I know are happy to fork out a little on a pleasing outfit, myself included. The bottom line is, if you care about the people involved, you should try and find a way to compromise on the demand, instead of turning it down flat. If they know you have tried, then that in my opinion is the most important factor.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Allen I’m guessing that no one would have barred the door kwim? I’ve been to ‘black tie only’ events often - I’ve seen an awful lot of folks in non ‘black tie’ garb - includig men not even in SUITS but in jackets/ties. Maybe this was a really unusual situation [and I'm surely not doubting your veracity at ALL] but I think part of what one has to adjust to when they’re moving towards a more money-conscious place is that sometimes there will be people who can’t believe we’re doing something out of the ordinary or expected and judge us or comment on it often. Again - I didn’t mean to seem harsh - I really WAS confused - adn I’m sorry if I did.
Now as for that ‘unexpected’ fund - do it as much ad as soon as you can because the unexpected COMES - expect it
I am glad you had money set aside that you could use instead of tossing it on a cc - keep at it!
June 27th, 2008 at 8:38 am
I totally agree with those who say it’s all right to simply decline. Personally, I wouldn’t mention that cost was a factor. I would just say how sorry I was that we couldn’t attend. And for a relative or close friend, I would absolutely send a gift anyway. For very casual acquaintances, I don’t send gifts unless I’m planning to attend the occasion.
When I was the bride, I knew many friends and family would not be able to attend because I live in Oregon and most of my family is in the Midwest and friends are/were scattered around the country. I didn’t take offense to anyone who rsvp’d that they couldn’t attend for whatever reason. (I did get pissed off at those who rsvp’d that they would attend and then just didn’t show up without calling or emailing to say what happened.)
I did get mildly annoyed at a cousin who constantly brags about his huge income who didn’t attend saying it was too expensive to fly from Denver to Portland because he could get tickets to Chicago cheaper. And then the following year, he took his family to the Seattle area, even drove all the way down to Mount St. Helens as a daytrip (about 70 miles from where we live) and never let me know he was in the vicinity even though I would have happily driven up to see him and his family. Sigh. And he claims I’m his favorite cousin …
I did have a fairly frugal wedding, at least when compared with national averages, spending $6000 (below the $10,000 we budgeted) including a sit-down luncheon in a very nice hotel and limited open bar. I even found my bridesmaids dressed in the Coldwater Creek catalog that were both inexpensive (for bridesmaid’s dresses at $80 apiece) and actually could be worn again. (And they all have!)
I still don’t understand why Allen didn’t have anything appropriate to wear. Even black tie weddings don’t require you to wear a tux. I’ve never heard of a man not being allowed inside a venue because he was wearing a regular suit and tie. And if Allen didn’t even own a suit and tie, there’s always thrift stores if you have enough time to shop around.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Generally, I tend to follow what I call the Karma Payment Plan, that is to say I think its generally a wash, especially with family. That being said, personally, I would never have a wedding where a guest would feel obligated (or be required) to rent formal wear. I actually think that borders on rude. If you’re going to throw a shindig that fancy, and you’re not a Rockafeller, you better expect that some family members aren’t going to be able to attend, and you should be understanding of that. Furthermore, your invitations should specify how formal the event is (if the invitation did say, and the guest didn’t realize that “black tie” means no jeans, then I have slightly less sympathy for him, he could have prepared). Honestly though, who has a black tie wedding these days? What a waste of money. I’d never expect a bunch of people who presumably already gave me gifts and maybe did some long distance travelling to fork out extra dough on formal wear.
But then, we tend to think about each others needs in my family, and we’ve attempted to organize things to be less costly. For example, I don’t even do birthdays, and for my sons first birthday I plan on having a giftless party. If people insist upon bringing something, I will ask for food for the party or a small donation ($5 or so) to his college fund. At Christmas we do a white elephant, so everyone brings two random gifts and leaves with two random gifts, and no one spends more than $15 per gift. We used to all spend hundreds buying tons of cheap gifts for everyone in the family, now we spend $30 and we all get something nice, instead of a bunch of crap. And now the focus is off the gifts and on eachother, which is where it should be anyway.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:39 am
I’ve been very conscious of the fact that things won’t “come out in the wash” for us, as J.D. so appropriately puts it.
We won’t be having children, and I went to four baby showers in 2007 alone. Plus, my husband went to a private college and most of his friends were wealthy pre-med students…their weddings have been outrageously highbrow.
That doesn’t really answer the question, but I feel Allen’s pain.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:44 am
I like how everyone assumes i had to go get a tux.
As i said, there is a step down from Tux. And yes, the country club apparently DOES have a very strict rules of entry, and YES i would have not been allowed in.
@Cherie: No harm, no fowl!
@March Hare: Yes, my family IS that tight, that my cousins are just a shade away from being brothers and sisters to me. Celtic family, what do you expect?
June 27th, 2008 at 8:47 am
There’s always family obligations, weddings, birthday parties, etc. I think it makes sense to include these expenses as a part of your budget - say by putting a certain amount of money aside each week/month, so that you have the money available when needed.
I think we also need to be cmfortable saying no sometimes. It can be hard, but that brief discomfot pales in comparison to the pain of overextending oneself financially. For me, I would have a hard time saying no to a family membr’s wedding, but I can always say no to attending a tupperware party. Sounds like Allen has the kind of family where saying no is not an option. It’s easy for us to say “well, they sure sound like jerks”, but a lot of people can’t just dismiss family. We shouldn’t impose how things work in our families on others.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:51 am
the first of my closest college girlfriends is getting married in august in our home state. i now live halfway across the country, and am scraping to make ends meet. i wouldn’t miss it for the world, because she was scraping to make ends meet and came to our wedding 4 years ago. i am also looking forward to seeing all the girls together again. she was gracious enough to respond very enthusiastically to my rsvp, and i know that i have her gratitude. this makes up for the cost of the plane ticket.
my best friend was married in key west- she is more family than some of my own family. we drove 900 miles to be there. her reaction to us being there was worth every cent. later, she confided that she might not have been able to hold up without me. all but 1 person in her family declined to come despite her and her DH’s offers to pay for the travel.
for those most precious to me, despite my financial situation, the most important thing is people. money doesn’t last forever- but i will forever tear up a little when i remember how happy my friend was to see us in key west.
i also have an extremely small, extremely close group of friends. that helps.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Allen — Ok, I get it that you weren’t required to wear a tux for the wedding.
But be specific on what the requirement was, so we can understand.
Most country clubs I’m familiar with simply require a jacket and tie. I understand this one may be even more formal.
What were you originally planning to wear to the wedding? And what was the minimum required for entry by the country club?
June 27th, 2008 at 8:55 am
“Blame it all on my roots,
I showed up in boots
and ruined your black tie affair…”
I would have either gone in what I had on hand and counted on the fact that no one was going to actually refuse a guest entrance, or stayed home and sent an affordable gift.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:58 am
To be honest, I am not 100% sure. I showed what i was planning on wearing (Khakis, navy blue suit-jacket, blue stripped tie, & white shirt, & black shoes) to my mother, the bride’s sister, and was informed that it wasn’t good enough to get into the wedding.
I was the only one wearing a brown jacket afterwards, i can tell you that.
However, I think we’re straying from the point: Sometimes, due to family/other-things-you-are-not-able/willing-to-avoid, you have to spend money on things you wouldn’t otherwise. If nothing else, this is a perfect example of why you need an emergency fund.
For me, however, another avenue of conversation i would love to see explored would be, how do you interact with people from such different social strati?
June 27th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Ahh… so the invitation stated that it was in a country club, but you didn’t know what “country club” actually meant. Generally, you do need decent clothes to enter a country club. We nixed the idea of even considering a country club for our wedding when we found out that we could not go to even see the place in jeans (which I wear to work daily).
Anyway, it sounds like no matter what you needed those clothes. Every man should have a suit decent enough to wear to weddings and funerals, period. No exceptions.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:04 am
What about something else mentioned in the entry: The ‘passing of the envelope’ at work? I recently moved from a job with 3 people, to a job with 150, and it seems every week there is an envelope because someone is in the hospital, or had a relative pass away, or a wedding, or something. I don’t know many of these people, and I doubt they could pick me from a lineup, but what’s your advice?
Just put a couple of bucks in, or not? It’s not going to kill my budget (It’s my Coke Money - Cherry Coke is my vice) but it’s something that I’m not accustomed to
June 27th, 2008 at 9:07 am
@Lissa: Exactly, I have no idea what “country club” means on an invite. That’s not in my world.
It can be hard to interact with people from very different worlds then your own. Inevitably, however, in times like a wedding, you end up butting up agaisnt people much lower or higher then you. How do you do so comfortably, without insulting anyone, or making them feel uncomfortable?
A friend of mine, when i was telling him about some of the guests, reminded me that, “We are all someone else’s poor”
June 27th, 2008 at 9:07 am
hindsight is 20/20 for people who are criticizing this guy who found out that day that he couldn’t get in to the place. $75 bucks for a tux rental is a lot if money is an issue! It is crazy that if you are decently dressed- and for a wedding at a country club, I would say a suit and tie or a partyish dress - that you are kept out. I have bought dressy dresses at thrift shops for $10- $15 and I see suits all the time. It is really distasteful that at a family event you would be kept out if you were wearing even a coat and tie- no matter what the “country club” rules are.
when money was an issue we used to say no to flying out to events but as we are older now and more secure financially, we try to say yes as much as possible so we can see the older relatives(and not at their funeral). Sharing happy times can be few and far between in some families so it is important for us now to be there if we possibly can.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:11 am
@Andrea:
I agree that it seemed a little crazy. At least i have an outfit now to wear when the other cousin in that family gets married next year. lol
@Lissa:
But what is “good enough” for a wedding? I had worn the other outfit to two weddings last year, and it was fine for those. Something like that is so inevitably tied to a social conception, that it can cause stresses when you are trying to talk/discuss the matter with someone outside of that group.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:28 am
No part of etiquette requires people to do things that are beyond their budgets. Read Miss Manners if you’re confused. Pressure to attend expensive things and buy expensive gifts are recent social conventions, and they are also excuses that people rely on who don’t want to draw boundaries or avoid spending. Other than maybe a direct sibling, every other wedding is optional and should not be attended if you can’t afford it.
Furthermore, I don’t believe there is ever a reason to spend that much on clothing. Again, you need to learn to be more creative and to not just knee-jerk spend money or use debt. 95% of the time you can borrow one-time clothing from friends or relatives. Just pay to have it dry cleaned before you return it, and you’ve spent $10 instead of buying a whole new outfit. Or, go to a thrift store and pay $10 for an outfit. Or, go to Target or a similar store and you can always find a simple, fancy outfit for not much money. (Granted, the quality or style might not be ideal, but if you’re trying to get out of debt, spending $300 should not be an option.)
June 27th, 2008 at 9:37 am
I agree with atexasgirl. Who cares what other people think? Politely say no. The people who matter won’t hold a grudge against you. If they initially get butt-hurt, oh well. They’ll get over it. If they don’t, too bad. Life goes on.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Dude your mom should’ve prepped you better for this event LOL
as for this:
For me, however, another avenue of conversation i would love to see explored would be, how do you interact with people from such different social strati?
Boy is this my life!
Dh and I are lawyers. DH is also a small potatoes elected official
We live in an area where most of our neighbors are NOT proessionals - a few are but mostly of the fireman, police, power company, clerical variety.
Through dh’s work and politics we have some VERY wealthy ‘acquaintances’ and even some friends - not huge house wealthy or trust fund wealthy - I mean private jet, seat on the exchange, giant and gianter wealthy.
And we know a lot of people in between. Our friends run the gamut from clerical through huge company ceo types - but it’s easier to be honest with friends than either aquaintances or family isn’t it?
So it’s a challenge to say the least but here is what I’ve learned thus far
1. Try to just be yourself. Don’t try to fit in with anyone else’s preconceptions - just correct those assumptions with a smile on your face and some self-deprecating humor if you must. I find that is often more necessary with folks who consider themselves ‘below our station’ than with those who consider themselves above it LOL. It puts them at ease and reminds them that we’re no different than they are as people. Those above us in net worth generally either find it interesting to hear how the other half lives or else remember being the other half themselves - so they understand.
2. Don’t assume those ‘above’ you were always there. Be honest about what you can and can’t do. There are easy ways to gently put people on notice that you’re not in their league financially, “following the work that I dreamed of does NOT pay as well as the other jobs on the market!” “ahh life must be good in the private sector - working for the public sector/staying home with my kids/sticking with my field of choice has lots of benefits but the salary is NOT one of them!” - “we’re having a cashflow challenge at the moment - wish we could join you/chip in/pariticpate but we can’t - how about coming over for a bbq next week?”
3. There will always be people who will not be able to accept the difference in your status gracefully - in both directions - and they’re likely not worth your time. If these folks are family? Well they don’t need to be happy about your choices no matter what they are - but everything has a consequence - weigh your options and accept the least distressing set of consequences you can arrange.
4. Accept generosity graciously. This can incredibly hard! I never ask anyone to pay for us. I never say ‘we can’t afford that’ and then accept when someone offers to treat. However I try to be generous with those less comfy than we are - we pick up the tab for dinner or share our ‘extra’ tickets to something - on the flip side when it’s someone we know well who really wants to include us in something we say thank you - wealthier friends invite us for a day at their toney beach club and won’t let us pay for our meals? Thank you. The big screen tv that showed up at my front door? thank you [don't laugh - it was a "well FINE then" gift from someone annoyed that I wouldn't let him to buy a new stove that I'd asked his advice about - he's a contractor and I really WANTED his advice on appliance brands and stores] Seats at someone’s ‘table’ for an event or in their ’sports box’? Thank you.
5. Be comfortable with who you are and what you have even when you’re trying to change them. It makes it easier for other folks to accept them when you’re not embarrassed or whiney about the situation - just like you wouldn’t be snobby about being wealthier than someone else you wouldn’t want to listen to grumbling about someone’s state of affairs either.
I have to admit this is harder for Dh than it is for me - but he does his best. He’s less secure than I am by nature so it’s more of a challenge - but he’s gotten MUCH better at it over the years - practice makes perfect!
June 27th, 2008 at 9:42 am
For children’s birthday parties, I’m not embarrassed to admit that I re-gift. Let’s face it - kids get way more than they need at a birthday. I take the 2 or 3 he likes the least, leave them in the packaging, and he gives them to someone else later in the year (not the same kid, of course!)
June 27th, 2008 at 9:43 am
And on passing the envelope?
Work is tough - especially if you’re new
Does the envelope just get left on your desk to pass on? or is it more public? I’d pass on the stuff that gets left if you can’t afford it - I always hated that stuff - or if you just don’t want to [hearing a coworker was hurt or something is different than hearing mary who you've never met down in accounting is getting engaged kwim?] - and if it’s really public at times? suck it up and put in the coke money LOL - at least until you’ve got your feet wet there and understand the lay of the land as it were
June 27th, 2008 at 9:54 am
I think you made the right decision and just have to live with it. Although we think emergency funds are just for dramatic emergencies - car failure, health problems, a leaky roof - the reality is that it’s often smaller emergencies that suck the fund, and that the term “emergency” is relative. You made the decision that this wedding was important to you, and so you made the right call in purchasing a suit.
Besides, consider the suit an investment. You need a decent outfit and if you purchased this one with care, it should last for years.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Allen - I think when it comes to formal events this is simply a learning experience. From now on, my guess is you will be forward thinking enough to call and ask about appropriate attire since it can vary widely. $300 seems a bit costly to me, but needing something that quickly does tend to up the ante.
Personally, and it seems you may have already come to this conclusion, I believe that men should own a nice dark suit in addition to khakis and a sports coat. Owning a single dark suit will get you through a variety of events (weddings, funerals, tea with the Queen, etc) and the more events you wear it to, the less expensive it becomes. Remember, being frugal isn’t about never spending money, but spending wisely on things you will re-use.
For the overarching question about unexpected costs for social obligations, I recommend building this in as a part of an emergency fund. There is a limit though. If a cousin expected me to travel back to the homeland, pay for a room in a castle, have appropriate dress, participate in other activities, and don’t forget the gift .. well, it sounds like a fabulous vacation, but I would politely decline.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Allen, it sounds like you’re in a good position. I know it must have been a bit frustrating to clean out your account for the one day. But, it sounds like you’re starting to focus on you finances so hopefully you’re giving yourself kudos that you had the $300 to spend and didn’t have to resort to anything else that would have caused you more discomfort (miss the wedding or wear something that would have made you uncomfortable for the night) You mentioned that you were the only one wearing a brown jacket…did that cause you discomfort? Also, now that the event has passed, how do you think you would have felt if you had worn what you originally planned to wear? I think the answers to these questions will help you approach similar situations in the future.
I don’t know Allen, you said you’d like to know “…how do you interact with people from such different social strati?” That didn’t seem to be the issue here as much as making a financial judgement call.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:01 am
“@March Hare: Yes, my family IS that tight, that my cousins are just a shade away from being brothers and sisters to me. Celtic family, what do you expect? ”
My two cents as a former event planner:
My guess is that the bride was not informed that people were being turned away at the door. Hopefully she knows about your situation and is able to confront the club and both get some money refunded to her due to the embarrassment of her guests and be able to complain to the management.
If you wore what you said there is NO reason that they shouldn’t have let you in for a wedding of all things. I’m positive that they wouldn’t have turned away old Uncle Louie if he came in the same get up.
If they planned on being that strict the bride should have be notified so she could outline the EXACT level of dress that was needed to get in.
If it were my wedding I would be furious.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:03 am
“@Lissa:
But what is “good enough” for a wedding? ”
Try on what you plan on wearing and ask a girl. It’s some weird sixth sense we are born with.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:04 am
I used to feel socially obligated to attend or gift or invest in whatever event my friends & family created. As my siblings got married, their spouses were added to the gift list. When their kids started arriving they were added to the gift list. Second marraiges & step kids were added. I never got married or had any children. They would each get an individual gift from me & I would get one “family” gift from all of them that cost about the same or slightly more than one of my gifts to them. As they all began making more $$ than me, their gift spending did not change, nor did their expectations of my obligations to them.
For years I tried to no avail to get them to draw names at Christmas. Of course they never wanted to. I began giving my art creations as gifts to the adults. Gifts that were saleable for $$$. It became clear very quickly that all but a few didn’t consider these to be adequate gifts. Over all the years I didn’t receive any thank you notes, from anyone other than my mom & the last couple years from one niece.
Whenever I attempted to broach the subject of all the gift-giving & social events being too expensive many seemed to feel that admission gave them license to ask very intrusive, personal & judgemental questions about my finances.
I love my family & friends, but after 50 years of dealing with this prickly issue I’ve found that the easiest thing for me to do when invited (in person or on the phone) to an event I can’t afford, I tell them I will have to get back to them. I give it 24 hours & either call or send them a note or e-mail thanking them, but declining. I used to entertain in my home & held open house parties with full food & drink & favors for invitees. I would request RSVP’s & people would either affirm they were coming or not respond at all. Many who said they would come didn’t & I was left with a lot of leftovers. Some family decided my house was too small & when I invited them for a family dinner, was told, “we’d love to have you cook, but why don’t you come here & cook it?” That was it for me. Now, I invite very few people for dinner. I don’t throw parties. I make special food gifts to deliver to a select few.
As a general observation, people have become much too inconsiderate & demanding & ungrateful. I’ve stopped catering, but it’s taken me 50 years to get to that point.
As for your situation: the invite should have said formal attire required & anything beyond immediate family/siblings, shouldn’t be an obligation, but a choice.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Passing the envelope issue: I agree with Cheri to just pass it along if no one’s looking, but to cough it up if someone is holiding the envelope, asking. It’s only a couple of dollars, and you need to consider the impact of saying no. You need to work with these folks everyday, and probably don’t want to gain the reputation of being cheap or even worse, mean or uncaring.
Would it be possible to establish a new system, whereby people put a certain amount of money (say $20) annually into a kitty, and that gets used everytime there’s a card to buy or flowers to send? Then it’s a one-time expense that you can plan and budget for. That also saves the hassle of having collect to collect the money every time.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:11 am
The answer to these questions is the same as the one for the rest of personal finance questions - BUDGET!
Everyone knows well ahead of time of the major events such as birthdays, weddings, and anniversaries. I have a shared google calendar that is specifically for such events and I ask my whole family to contribute to it (I am really bad at remembering these things). Then when I do my budget for the upcoming six months, I refer to it and allocate amounts for each event. (This is pretty much the first thing I do after setting my savings goal and accounting for major expenses such as car insurance and planned vacations).
If one cannot save an extra $300 or even $600 over a period of six months or a year then he definitely shouldn’t be attending.
As far as the smaller events go, well those are optional. One doesn’t have to attend happy hour every week and it’s a lot easier to say no to a candle party than to a family member’s wedding.
Finally, never try to figure out if things will “come out in the wash” eventually - this will drive you nuts! Just give from you heart or whatever is appropriate for the occasion.
The last several posts mentioned ‘investing in others’ and what a better way to do that than investing in the people closest to you! A couple that’s just starting their married life together can surely use some investing whether it comes from your wisdom or from your wallet.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Luckily, the year that most of my friends got married, I really was too poor to even consider travelling to them. I sent small gifts and heartfelt cards. The next two weddings I participated in as a candlelighter, which meant I got to wear my own nice dress (the same one for both weddings, actually) though I offered to try to match the bridesmaids’ dresses or something else if the bride wanted me to. I was maid of honor for my sister, and don’t regret a penny of what I spent on dress, shoes, or travel for that wedding. (I gave the dress to a cousin who altered it for a prom dress, and I still wear the shoes.)
If I ever get married, I’m having a cheap love fest. Everyone will be asked to wear something they love and feel comfortable in, and if that’s jeans and flipflops that’s fine with me. That might be what *I* wear!
June 27th, 2008 at 10:37 am
More on passing the envelope in the office: Can you just say that you don’t know the person and will pass this time? I think if you are new, and have met the person and will definitely be working with them in the future, it is probably a good idea to give. However, if they are in a totally different dept or if you have no idea who they are, if you’re new I think people will absolutely understand. As for giving $$ once you know everyone…I think you can subtly pass on some, or have the new system mentioned above where there is a pot that the money goes in for all of these types of events.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:15 am
A situation like this should make you want to have cash set aside.
I had the same exact situation however, it did not mess up my fiances, I had the cash to rent a car, buy a nice dress and go!
June 27th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Gift giving at work? Don’t even get me started. Right now there are four pregnant women in our building. For a place that only has about 30-40 people employed total - that’s a lot.
The problem is - the growing trend has been to have a baby shower at work, during work hours (lunchtime usually) and of course everyone in the building is sent an invite. I have declined the invites because I don’t know these other gals that well and I find this somewhat inappropriate. One of the ladies that had a shower is on her sixth kid! Aren’t you only suppose to have one - maybe two if your second child is going to be the opposite gender. I’ve thought about complaining to HR, but I don’t want to be a stick in the mud. I’m just going to have to ride out the baby wave and to be honest - I don’t really care if people think I’m a scrooge.
One gal that works in my department is also pregnant with her first. I’m fine with that. We’ve worked together closely for five years. I’m sure we will plan something for her, but I will definately encourage something off-site/after-hours.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:17 am
The same thing happened to us a couple weeks ago for the rehearsal dinner of a wedding. The rehearsal dinner was at a country club. We have never belonged to a country club and it didn’t occur to us that a dress code would be enforced. We went to Target and got a couple new things, and probably spent about $50 each on something new to wear into the country club that night. We were out of town, so going back to our closets was not an option. I was able to simply find something to wear with what I was already planning to wear, luckily, but my fiance had to buy new slacks, etc., because he didn’t bring anything nice to wear to the dinner… not THAT nice anyway. He wore a tux for the wedding because he was a groomsman. It was a pretty expensive weekend if you count the hotel room, the gas to & from, the unexpected clothing purchases, and the fact we both forgot grooming products (his shaver, my hair straightener).
I didn’t use my emergency fund… I just dipped into my checking account. But in the future I’d love to have a wedding expense account for gifts, travel, and other costs associated with weddings. I haven’t gotten that great at budgeting yet.
Wedding #3 of 3 THIS MONTH is tomorrow! Woo hoo!
June 27th, 2008 at 11:23 am
I have to agree with several here, including Allen himself: in this case, it was as much a learning experience that (theroetically) he should have been prepared for, but since he wasn’t, it cost him more than it could have if he’d planned it out.
These are emergencies too. Improper planning leads to emergencies. Trouble is you can’t always plan for everything…which is what the “Emergency” fund is really for (not just the car breaking down) - unplanned things that come up up, that aren’t frivolous.
Just don’t go too far to the other side and think any little thing can be pulled from your emergency fund, and you should be okay. Yeah, it sucks he’ll have to build up the emergency fund due to a wedding, but as the facts have come out, I don’t think it was as out-of-the-ordinary situation, like buying clothes he will only wear once.
When I was mid-twenties, I did not have a suit, or really even a sprot coat for that matter. My gandmother had a stroke one day and things didn’t look good, so my dad had me immediately go buy one just in case. She ended up dying from complications to that stroke 6 months later, but by not being prepared forced an awkward situation to buy that suit right away in case she’d died immediately. Theoretically, I should have already HAD such a suit, and then neither me or my dad would have needed to worry about clothing at a such a time, but that’s part of growing up (even if you’re already a grown-up).
One point a lot seem to be missing - he would really have felt bad about not being there, since he is so close to his family. A lot of the comments here seem to be coming from a youngish “if they won’t accept me exactly how I am, tough! I don’t need to meet anyone else’s standards than my own” approach.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Was this a black tie wedding? In that case, declining if you don’t want to rent/buy a tux is fine, in my opinion.
If it was a formal wedding, but not black tie, then a suit and tie are acceptable. I’m in my 30’s (in other words not my grandmother’s age), but I do think every man should own a suit and tie, and every woman should own at least one dressy outfit. Something that can be worn to a wedding, funeral, or other more formal event. These events do come up (sometimes unexpectedly) and I think it’s respectful to dress appropriately. Wonderful suits and dresses can be found at vintage stores, and a tailor can work wonders for very little money. Vintage styles also look classic, so can be worn for years.
I know we are all trying to accumulate less “stuff,” but this is one thing that I think can alleviate a lot of stress later on. Often these formal events come up with not much notice and can force you into spending a lot of money on something that you might not even like.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Why do you have to buy something you’ll never wear again? Why not get nice looking separates from Ross and later wear the jacket with jeans and the pants with a Gap polo. Think of this as an opportunity to change up your wardrobe. You need clothing for the ceremonies of life (births, weddings, deaths). It need not cost more than $50 at a discount store (I bet I could find it for w-a-y else than that)!
Also, the invitation should have set the tone for the level of formalness. If the event is at the country club, then you need to dress nice enough to get into the country club. Did you think you were going to watch from a distance? It’s a ceremonial event; don’t assume the level of formality- you don’t want to feel under/over dressed all day. When in doubt, ask a wedding party member.
However, I think the formalness of this story isn’t the real issue.
The issue is: is it appropriate to say “I can’t attend due to financial concerns.”
YES, yes it is in my family.
We’re getting married next month and we’ve had family members bring this issue up. Some people won’t be able to come, so we’re sending them the video or photos. Others we’ve made carpooling/rooming arrangements for them so that people can individually reduce their costs. Other family members made it their wedding gift to us, to help less-financially-well-off family members be there for the special day. Others opted to just attend the wedding and not the showers. Other people have just sent their well-wishes and left it at that.
I know it doesn’t always work this way.
I had an acquaintance, I was not close to, ask me to be in her expensive wedding. I knew I didn’t have the money to do it. I told her so, and she freaked out. I can understand her being upset for a while but, we didn’t talk for years. However, that was an incident where she wasn’t being a friend. She was being selfish.
I know this can happen in families too, and this sounds like your situation. If you had told them a head of time and they still snubbed you- then it would have been your family’s fault for being condescending, not you the individual’s fault for being honest.
However, it sounds like you had a lack of awareness about the expectations, and therefore you didn’t bring it up in an amount of time to be handled properly. The day of is not enough time. A sad situation, but probably one you and your family have learned from!
June 27th, 2008 at 11:28 am
You can buy dressy clothes at Goodwill or other thrift store. If black tie is indicated, you can rent. The idea is that someone you care about is making a big life change, and has asked you to be part of it. You, not a model, not a gift-bearing stranger. Wear your best outfit, bring a loving, thoughtful gift, and share the joy.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Allen, if you didn’t know what “country club” attire meant, you should’ve asked. You said you’re close with your family; it shouldn’t be a problem to ask. Also, I’d expect your mother or sibling or cousin to let you know “Gee Allen, your regular clothes aren’t going to cut it for this event; let me know if you need help finding something appropriate to wear.” My mother would tell me that and I’m 40!
I think you need to take some responsibility for finding out what is appropriate to wear. We often call ahead if we’re not sure what to wear, and generally dress nicer than necessary if we’re unsure.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Also, being in a wedding doesn’t have to be expensive. Now that your family knows your situation, try and allow it to be a point of discussion not contention.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:53 am
If sending a gift instead of attending is not an option, then one possible solution (assuming you’re married) is to have only one spouse attend in order to save on travel expenses.
June 27th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Exactly my current problem. My brother in law decided that they were going to have a wedding after all, oh, and it’s in July.
By the way, my kids would be in the party (ring-bearer, flower girl).. How nice, right?
By the way, the wedding is going to be in the carribean, and we have to pay our own tickets, lodging, etc. For a family of five!
Now I’m stuck blowing all my savings.
June 27th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
I have money put aside in my budget for things like this. However, if I didn’t have the money I would just be honest. I would hope most people would understand.
June 27th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
@Jeff: If I were in your shoes, I would think that where I’m working has a lot of sick people.
Seriously, though, every week? I work where there are 1,000 people at just this location, and I don’t get hit up for money that often!
I have contributed to someone’s funeral, even though I did not know the person, but I don’t think I’ve ever contributed to a relative of someone’s funeral unless I knew the person. That might be the case if the office only has 300 people, but I would really ask how well do I know them? I could see pitching in a buck or two, but unless they were on the same team or at least in the same department, I don’t know I would contribute beyond that.
As far as the comment that criticizes assumptions, if details are left out, then that is what people do. It is ironic given that not only was it assumed what was appropriate but it also was assumed we would know what he brought to wear. It seems to me, and this addresses Allen’s other question about appropriateness, the logical thing to do is when in doubt, ask. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure; being prepared, … etc.
June 27th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
@Christine:
Ahh, but this falls right into the other question. I am young enough/not in that circle enough where i didn’t even consider that what i had would not be good enough!
They are out of my normal economic circle enough, where it did not even occur to me that what i had would not be good enough.
June 27th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I don’t know, it seems to me if one really has a close family, that would include understanding that not everyone can attend every event. And that should be especially true of weddings, which, unless they are really small, aren’t occasions during which most of the guests will spend much time with the bride/groom, certainly not “quality time”!
I’m also really against the “it will all come out in the wash” idea — I think if you can’t give a gift (or attend an event) with a whole heart of delight that you’re doing it, then don’t. And the only gifts I want are the ones that people feel really moved to give, not just because I gave them one…
June 27th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
It seems everyone here has a different interpretation of “it all comes out in the wash” than I have. Isn’t it supposed to mean that a wrong done to you will be rectified some day? That something strange will become clear one day? Rather, it seems people are confusing it with “What goes around comes around”.
At any rate, I have learned, much too late, that you should live within your means, be generous with what you have and don’t give what you do not have. Being generous doesn’t mean going into the hole for someone. That’s being sacrificial, and it also means you have to ask yourself what is the relationship worth. For example, it is generous to give $35 to starving children overseas, but is it worth it if it means your family won’t be fed? It would be a sacrifice, but not a very good one. For me, there are only a few cousins I would sacrifice buying a plane ticket to see their wedding. That is me, and that is where my finances are. It sounds to me that for Allen the consequences of not buying the suit were greater than the cost of the suit.
That doesn’t take away from my earlier comment that he could have asked, though.
June 27th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
We tell everyone we train to budget for gifts. This year alone there were about ten weddings at our church and members of my family were invited to half of them.
You have to make a stand and not go into debt; people will eventually respect you for your self control.
Joe