Ask the Readers: How to Cope with Socially Obligated Spending?

@cherie:
The invite said that it was being held at the country club. I just didn’t know what that required. There is a step down from black-tie (but this was real close!).

I agree being able to work money for something like this into an “Unexpected” money category is a great idea. It’s just hard right now, as i easily could have gone into debt for this if i hadn’t had SOME money put away (all respect to JD for getting me into a mind-place where i could start to put some away at all!). I am sure it is hard for many other people just starting, before you have that fund.

Maybe my sitch. is unique. Saying no wouldn’t have been an option, but my family, i am sure, didn’t MEAN to have a get-to-gether that was more ritzy then my wardrobe is used to.

Interesting problem. I think the main premise of the question is that, are occasional expenses for the sake of keeping strong ties with family and friends justified? Personally I think yes. I think it is up to the couple to decide what sort of ceremony they wish to have for their guests. On the other hand I do think guests have a right to decline invitations if the couple make unreasonable demands on their time and money. For example, choosing to have their wedding on a week day instead of a weekend, forcing you to take time off work. Having it in an exotic location and expecting all the guests to fork out for a plane ride and hotel when they could have had it in the countryside. You having to fork out for a suit? I don’t think that’s a big problem.
Everyone should and usually does have clothes set aside for special occasions and if you don’t you should save up for it. I would be embarassed turning up to a special occasion wearing an overtly casual outfit. It could be a gender difference – most women I know are happy to fork out a little on a pleasing outfit, myself included. The bottom line is, if you care about the people involved, you should try and find a way to compromise on the demand, instead of turning it down flat. If they know you have tried, then that in my opinion is the most important factor.

I totally agree with those who say it’s all right to simply decline. Personally, I wouldn’t mention that cost was a factor. I would just say how sorry I was that we couldn’t attend. And for a relative or close friend, I would absolutely send a gift anyway. For very casual acquaintances, I don’t send gifts unless I’m planning to attend the occasion.

When I was the bride, I knew many friends and family would not be able to attend because I live in Oregon and most of my family is in the Midwest and friends are/were scattered around the country. I didn’t take offense to anyone who rsvp’d that they couldn’t attend for whatever reason. (I did get pissed off at those who rsvp’d that they would attend and then just didn’t show up without calling or emailing to say what happened.)

I did get mildly annoyed at a cousin who constantly brags about his huge income who didn’t attend saying it was too expensive to fly from Denver to Portland because he could get tickets to Chicago cheaper. And then the following year, he took his family to the Seattle area, even drove all the way down to Mount St. Helens as a daytrip (about 70 miles from where we live) and never let me know he was in the vicinity even though I would have happily driven up to see him and his family. Sigh. And he claims I’m his favorite cousin …

I did have a fairly frugal wedding, at least when compared with national averages, spending $6000 (below the $10,000 we budgeted) including a sit-down luncheon in a very nice hotel and limited open bar. I even found my bridesmaids dressed in the Coldwater Creek catalog that were both inexpensive (for bridesmaid’s dresses at $80 apiece) and actually could be worn again. (And they all have!)

I still don’t understand why Allen didn’t have anything appropriate to wear. Even black tie weddings don’t require you to wear a tux. I’ve never heard of a man not being allowed inside a venue because he was wearing a regular suit and tie. And if Allen didn’t even own a suit and tie, there’s always thrift stores if you have enough time to shop around.

I’ve been very conscious of the fact that things won’t “come out in the wash” for us, as J.D. so appropriately puts it.

We won’t be having children, and I went to four baby showers in 2007 alone. Plus, my husband went to a private college and most of his friends were wealthy pre-med students…their weddings have been outrageously highbrow.

That doesn’t really answer the question, but I feel Allen’s pain.

There’s always family obligations, weddings, birthday parties, etc. I think it makes sense to include these expenses as a part of your budget – say by putting a certain amount of money aside each week/month, so that you have the money available when needed.

I think we also need to be cmfortable saying no sometimes. It can be hard, but that brief discomfot pales in comparison to the pain of overextending oneself financially. For me, I would have a hard time saying no to a family membr’s wedding, but I can always say no to attending a tupperware party. Sounds like Allen has the kind of family where saying no is not an option. It’s easy for us to say “well, they sure sound like jerks”, but a lot of people can’t just dismiss family. We shouldn’t impose how things work in our families on others.

Allen — Ok, I get it that you weren’t required to wear a tux for the wedding.

But be specific on what the requirement was, so we can understand.

Most country clubs I’m familiar with simply require a jacket and tie. I understand this one may be even more formal.

What were you originally planning to wear to the wedding? And what was the minimum required for entry by the country club?

What about something else mentioned in the entry: The ‘passing of the envelope’ at work? I recently moved from a job with 3 people, to a job with 150, and it seems every week there is an envelope because someone is in the hospital, or had a relative pass away, or a wedding, or something. I don’t know many of these people, and I doubt they could pick me from a lineup, but what’s your advice?

Just put a couple of bucks in, or not? It’s not going to kill my budget (It’s my Coke Money – Cherry Coke is my vice) but it’s something that I’m not accustomed to

hindsight is 20/20 for people who are criticizing this guy who found out that day that he couldn’t get in to the place. $75 bucks for a tux rental is a lot if money is an issue! It is crazy that if you are decently dressed- and for a wedding at a country club, I would say a suit and tie or a partyish dress – that you are kept out. I have bought dressy dresses at thrift shops for $10- $15 and I see suits all the time. It is really distasteful that at a family event you would be kept out if you were wearing even a coat and tie- no matter what the “country club” rules are.
when money was an issue we used to say no to flying out to events but as we are older now and more secure financially, we try to say yes as much as possible so we can see the older relatives(and not at their funeral). Sharing happy times can be few and far between in some families so it is important for us now to be there if we possibly can.

No part of etiquette requires people to do things that are beyond their budgets. Read Miss Manners if you’re confused. Pressure to attend expensive things and buy expensive gifts are recent social conventions, and they are also excuses that people rely on who don’t want to draw boundaries or avoid spending. Other than maybe a direct sibling, every other wedding is optional and should not be attended if you can’t afford it.

Furthermore, I don’t believe there is ever a reason to spend that much on clothing. Again, you need to learn to be more creative and to not just knee-jerk spend money or use debt. 95% of the time you can borrow one-time clothing from friends or relatives. Just pay to have it dry cleaned before you return it, and you’ve spent $10 instead of buying a whole new outfit. Or, go to a thrift store and pay $10 for an outfit. Or, go to Target or a similar store and you can always find a simple, fancy outfit for not much money. (Granted, the quality or style might not be ideal, but if you’re trying to get out of debt, spending $300 should not be an option.)

Dude your mom should’ve prepped you better for this event LOL

as for this:
For me, however, another avenue of conversation i would love to see explored would be, how do you interact with people from such different social strati?

Boy is this my life!

Dh and I are lawyers. DH is also a small potatoes elected official

We live in an area where most of our neighbors are NOT proessionals – a few are but mostly of the fireman, police, power company, clerical variety.

Through dh’s work and politics we have some VERY wealthy ‘acquaintances’ and even some friends – not huge house wealthy or trust fund wealthy – I mean private jet, seat on the exchange, giant and gianter wealthy.

And we know a lot of people in between. Our friends run the gamut from clerical through huge company ceo types – but it’s easier to be honest with friends than either aquaintances or family isn’t it?

So it’s a challenge to say the least but here is what I’ve learned thus far

1. Try to just be yourself. Don’t try to fit in with anyone else’s preconceptions – just correct those assumptions with a smile on your face and some self-deprecating humor if you must. I find that is often more necessary with folks who consider themselves ‘below our station’ than with those who consider themselves above it LOL. It puts them at ease and reminds them that we’re no different than they are as people. Those above us in net worth generally either find it interesting to hear how the other half lives or else remember being the other half themselves – so they understand.

2. Don’t assume those ‘above’ you were always there. Be honest about what you can and can’t do. There are easy ways to gently put people on notice that you’re not in their league financially, “following the work that I dreamed of does NOT pay as well as the other jobs on the market!” “ahh life must be good in the private sector – working for the public sector/staying home with my kids/sticking with my field of choice has lots of benefits but the salary is NOT one of them!” – “we’re having a cashflow challenge at the moment – wish we could join you/chip in/pariticpate but we can’t – how about coming over for a bbq next week?”
3. There will always be people who will not be able to accept the difference in your status gracefully – in both directions – and they’re likely not worth your time. If these folks are family? Well they don’t need to be happy about your choices no matter what they are – but everything has a consequence – weigh your options and accept the least distressing set of consequences you can arrange.

4. Accept generosity graciously. This can incredibly hard! I never ask anyone to pay for us. I never say ‘we can’t afford that’ and then accept when someone offers to treat. However I try to be generous with those less comfy than we are – we pick up the tab for dinner or share our ‘extra’ tickets to something – on the flip side when it’s someone we know well who really wants to include us in something we say thank you – wealthier friends invite us for a day at their toney beach club and won’t let us pay for our meals? Thank you. The big screen tv that showed up at my front door? thank you [don't laugh - it was a "well FINE then" gift from someone annoyed that I wouldn't let him to buy a new stove that I'd asked his advice about - he's a contractor and I really WANTED his advice on appliance brands and stores] Seats at someone’s ‘table’ for an event or in their ‘sports box’? Thank you.

5. Be comfortable with who you are and what you have even when you’re trying to change them. It makes it easier for other folks to accept them when you’re not embarrassed or whiney about the situation – just like you wouldn’t be snobby about being wealthier than someone else you wouldn’t want to listen to grumbling about someone’s state of affairs either.

I have to admit this is harder for Dh than it is for me – but he does his best. He’s less secure than I am by nature so it’s more of a challenge – but he’s gotten MUCH better at it over the years – practice makes perfect!

And on passing the envelope?

Work is tough – especially if you’re new

Does the envelope just get left on your desk to pass on? or is it more public? I’d pass on the stuff that gets left if you can’t afford it – I always hated that stuff – or if you just don’t want to [hearing a coworker was hurt or something is different than hearing mary who you've never met down in accounting is getting engaged kwim?] – and if it’s really public at times? suck it up and put in the coke money LOL – at least until you’ve got your feet wet there and understand the lay of the land as it were

Allen – I think when it comes to formal events this is simply a learning experience. From now on, my guess is you will be forward thinking enough to call and ask about appropriate attire since it can vary widely. $300 seems a bit costly to me, but needing something that quickly does tend to up the ante.

Personally, and it seems you may have already come to this conclusion, I believe that men should own a nice dark suit in addition to khakis and a sports coat. Owning a single dark suit will get you through a variety of events (weddings, funerals, tea with the Queen, etc) and the more events you wear it to, the less expensive it becomes. Remember, being frugal isn’t about never spending money, but spending wisely on things you will re-use.

For the overarching question about unexpected costs for social obligations, I recommend building this in as a part of an emergency fund. There is a limit though. If a cousin expected me to travel back to the homeland, pay for a room in a castle, have appropriate dress, participate in other activities, and don’t forget the gift .. well, it sounds like a fabulous vacation, but I would politely decline.

“@March Hare: Yes, my family IS that tight, that my cousins are just a shade away from being brothers and sisters to me. Celtic family, what do you expect? ”

My two cents as a former event planner:

My guess is that the bride was not informed that people were being turned away at the door. Hopefully she knows about your situation and is able to confront the club and both get some money refunded to her due to the embarrassment of her guests and be able to complain to the management.

If you wore what you said there is NO reason that they shouldn’t have let you in for a wedding of all things. I’m positive that they wouldn’t have turned away old Uncle Louie if he came in the same get up.

If they planned on being that strict the bride should have be notified so she could outline the EXACT level of dress that was needed to get in.

If it were my wedding I would be furious.

I used to feel socially obligated to attend or gift or invest in whatever event my friends & family created. As my siblings got married, their spouses were added to the gift list. When their kids started arriving they were added to the gift list. Second marraiges & step kids were added. I never got married or had any children. They would each get an individual gift from me & I would get one “family” gift from all of them that cost about the same or slightly more than one of my gifts to them. As they all began making more $$ than me, their gift spending did not change, nor did their expectations of my obligations to them.

For years I tried to no avail to get them to draw names at Christmas. Of course they never wanted to. I began giving my art creations as gifts to the adults. Gifts that were saleable for $$$. It became clear very quickly that all but a few didn’t consider these to be adequate gifts. Over all the years I didn’t receive any thank you notes, from anyone other than my mom & the last couple years from one niece.

Whenever I attempted to broach the subject of all the gift-giving & social events being too expensive many seemed to feel that admission gave them license to ask very intrusive, personal & judgemental questions about my finances.

I love my family & friends, but after 50 years of dealing with this prickly issue I’ve found that the easiest thing for me to do when invited (in person or on the phone) to an event I can’t afford, I tell them I will have to get back to them. I give it 24 hours & either call or send them a note or e-mail thanking them, but declining. I used to entertain in my home & held open house parties with full food & drink & favors for invitees. I would request RSVP’s & people would either affirm they were coming or not respond at all. Many who said they would come didn’t & I was left with a lot of leftovers. Some family decided my house was too small & when I invited them for a family dinner, was told, “we’d love to have you cook, but why don’t you come here & cook it?” That was it for me. Now, I invite very few people for dinner. I don’t throw parties. I make special food gifts to deliver to a select few.

As a general observation, people have become much too inconsiderate & demanding & ungrateful. I’ve stopped catering, but it’s taken me 50 years to get to that point.

As for your situation: the invite should have said formal attire required & anything beyond immediate family/siblings, shouldn’t be an obligation, but a choice.

The answer to these questions is the same as the one for the rest of personal finance questions – BUDGET!

Everyone knows well ahead of time of the major events such as birthdays, weddings, and anniversaries. I have a shared google calendar that is specifically for such events and I ask my whole family to contribute to it (I am really bad at remembering these things). Then when I do my budget for the upcoming six months, I refer to it and allocate amounts for each event. (This is pretty much the first thing I do after setting my savings goal and accounting for major expenses such as car insurance and planned vacations).

If one cannot save an extra $300 or even $600 over a period of six months or a year then he definitely shouldn’t be attending.

As far as the smaller events go, well those are optional. One doesn’t have to attend happy hour every week and it’s a lot easier to say no to a candle party than to a family member’s wedding.

Finally, never try to figure out if things will “come out in the wash” eventually – this will drive you nuts! Just give from you heart or whatever is appropriate for the occasion.

The last several posts mentioned ‘investing in others’ and what a better way to do that than investing in the people closest to you! A couple that’s just starting their married life together can surely use some investing whether it comes from your wisdom or from your wallet.

More on passing the envelope in the office: Can you just say that you don’t know the person and will pass this time? I think if you are new, and have met the person and will definitely be working with them in the future, it is probably a good idea to give. However, if they are in a totally different dept or if you have no idea who they are, if you’re new I think people will absolutely understand. As for giving $$ once you know everyone…I think you can subtly pass on some, or have the new system mentioned above where there is a pot that the money goes in for all of these types of events.

Gift giving at work? Don’t even get me started. Right now there are four pregnant women in our building. For a place that only has about 30-40 people employed total – that’s a lot.

The problem is – the growing trend has been to have a baby shower at work, during work hours (lunchtime usually) and of course everyone in the building is sent an invite. I have declined the invites because I don’t know these other gals that well and I find this somewhat inappropriate. One of the ladies that had a shower is on her sixth kid! Aren’t you only suppose to have one – maybe two if your second child is going to be the opposite gender. I’ve thought about complaining to HR, but I don’t want to be a stick in the mud. I’m just going to have to ride out the baby wave and to be honest – I don’t really care if people think I’m a scrooge.

One gal that works in my department is also pregnant with her first. I’m fine with that. We’ve worked together closely for five years. I’m sure we will plan something for her, but I will definately encourage something off-site/after-hours.

I have to agree with several here, including Allen himself: in this case, it was as much a learning experience that (theroetically) he should have been prepared for, but since he wasn’t, it cost him more than it could have if he’d planned it out.

These are emergencies too. Improper planning leads to emergencies. Trouble is you can’t always plan for everything…which is what the “Emergency” fund is really for (not just the car breaking down) – unplanned things that come up up, that aren’t frivolous.

Just don’t go too far to the other side and think any little thing can be pulled from your emergency fund, and you should be okay. Yeah, it sucks he’ll have to build up the emergency fund due to a wedding, but as the facts have come out, I don’t think it was as out-of-the-ordinary situation, like buying clothes he will only wear once.

When I was mid-twenties, I did not have a suit, or really even a sprot coat for that matter. My gandmother had a stroke one day and things didn’t look good, so my dad had me immediately go buy one just in case. She ended up dying from complications to that stroke 6 months later, but by not being prepared forced an awkward situation to buy that suit right away in case she’d died immediately. Theoretically, I should have already HAD such a suit, and then neither me or my dad would have needed to worry about clothing at a such a time, but that’s part of growing up (even if you’re already a grown-up).

One point a lot seem to be missing – he would really have felt bad about not being there, since he is so close to his family. A lot of the comments here seem to be coming from a youngish “if they won’t accept me exactly how I am, tough! I don’t need to meet anyone else’s standards than my own” approach.

Why do you have to buy something you’ll never wear again? Why not get nice looking separates from Ross and later wear the jacket with jeans and the pants with a Gap polo. Think of this as an opportunity to change up your wardrobe. You need clothing for the ceremonies of life (births, weddings, deaths). It need not cost more than $50 at a discount store (I bet I could find it for w-a-y else than that)!

Also, the invitation should have set the tone for the level of formalness. If the event is at the country club, then you need to dress nice enough to get into the country club. Did you think you were going to watch from a distance? It’s a ceremonial event; don’t assume the level of formality- you don’t want to feel under/over dressed all day. When in doubt, ask a wedding party member.

However, I think the formalness of this story isn’t the real issue.

The issue is: is it appropriate to say “I can’t attend due to financial concerns.”

YES, yes it is in my family.

We’re getting married next month and we’ve had family members bring this issue up. Some people won’t be able to come, so we’re sending them the video or photos. Others we’ve made carpooling/rooming arrangements for them so that people can individually reduce their costs. Other family members made it their wedding gift to us, to help less-financially-well-off family members be there for the special day. Others opted to just attend the wedding and not the showers. Other people have just sent their well-wishes and left it at that.

I know it doesn’t always work this way.

I had an acquaintance, I was not close to, ask me to be in her expensive wedding. I knew I didn’t have the money to do it. I told her so, and she freaked out. I can understand her being upset for a while but, we didn’t talk for years. However, that was an incident where she wasn’t being a friend. She was being selfish.

I know this can happen in families too, and this sounds like your situation. If you had told them a head of time and they still snubbed you- then it would have been your family’s fault for being condescending, not you the individual’s fault for being honest.

However, it sounds like you had a lack of awareness about the expectations, and therefore you didn’t bring it up in an amount of time to be handled properly. The day of is not enough time. A sad situation, but probably one you and your family have learned from!

Allen, if you didn’t know what “country club” attire meant, you should’ve asked. You said you’re close with your family; it shouldn’t be a problem to ask. Also, I’d expect your mother or sibling or cousin to let you know “Gee Allen, your regular clothes aren’t going to cut it for this event; let me know if you need help finding something appropriate to wear.” My mother would tell me that and I’m 40! I think you need to take some responsibility for finding out what is appropriate to wear. We often call ahead if we’re not sure what to wear, and generally dress nicer than necessary if we’re unsure.

If sending a gift instead of attending is not an option, then one possible solution (assuming you’re married) is to have only one spouse attend in order to save on travel expenses.

I have money put aside in my budget for things like this. However, if I didn’t have the money I would just be honest. I would hope most people would understand.

@Christine:

Ahh, but this falls right into the other question. I am young enough/not in that circle enough where i didn’t even consider that what i had would not be good enough!

They are out of my normal economic circle enough, where it did not even occur to me that what i had would not be good enough.

It seems everyone here has a different interpretation of “it all comes out in the wash” than I have. Isn’t it supposed to mean that a wrong done to you will be rectified some day? That something strange will become clear one day? Rather, it seems people are confusing it with “What goes around comes around”.

At any rate, I have learned, much too late, that you should live within your means, be generous with what you have and don’t give what you do not have. Being generous doesn’t mean going into the hole for someone. That’s being sacrificial, and it also means you have to ask yourself what is the relationship worth. For example, it is generous to give $35 to starving children overseas, but is it worth it if it means your family won’t be fed? It would be a sacrifice, but not a very good one. For me, there are only a few cousins I would sacrifice buying a plane ticket to see their wedding. That is me, and that is where my finances are. It sounds to me that for Allen the consequences of not buying the suit were greater than the cost of the suit.

That doesn’t take away from my earlier comment that he could have asked, though.