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Christina sent a question that puzzles many people — including me. Once we’ve established good personal finance habits, we know that it’s time to begin investing. But how? Christina writes:
I’ve had an ING direct savings account for a few years now, and today I decided to take the plunge and open a ShareBuilder account. No sooner had I gotten to the “What do you want to do?” page did I realize that I have absolutely NO IDEA what I’m doing. I was thinking I’d like to do some very basic, not-too-risky investing just so I get some experience with this stuff…but I don’t even know how to start!
Anyone have tips for me on how to get started? I feel like I’m drowning in all this lingo I don’t know. Disclaimers! Fees! Yuck!
Bravo to Christina for putting on the brakes before rushing headlong into something she doesn’t understand. I wish I had done this. Instead, my investing history is filled with thousands of dollars in losses because I simply had no idea what I was doing.
A single blog post isn’t enough to prepare her to invest, but maybe it can point her in the right direction. I’ll share my advice and then let Get Rich Slowly readers contribute theirs.
Where to Invest
The first thing to note is that Sharebuilder may not be the best place to invest.
Sharebuilder is a great way to get into the investing habit. I used it to develop the habit myself. I liked the fact that I was able to invest just $100 (or $25!) at a time. But for each scheduled investment, Sharebuilder charges a $4 fee. That’s not a lot if you’re putting $5,000 into your Roth IRA all at once, but it’s a huge chunk out of a $100 investment. Sharebuilder is a great way to learn about investing, but there are other options worth considering.
Zecco used to offer free trades with no minimum balance. Now they charge $4.50 per trade if your balance is below $2500. If your balance is above that minimum, you get 10 free trades per month. Zecco is a good choice for somebody who wants to invest in stocks.
Another option — and this is the one I currently recommend — is to accumulate cash in a high-interest savings account until you can afford to open an investment account at Vanguard.
Vanguard requires a $3,000 minimum initial investment and $100 for additional transactions. Like many Get Rich Slowly readers, I am a huge fan of Vanguard’s low-cost index funds, but I don’t know much about their other investment options. I plan to open a retirement account with them this fall.
What to Invest In
To my mind, where to invest is less important than what to invest in. This is the million dollar question — literally. There are many different approaches, and the only way to learn which is right for you is to do some research.
When I was younger, I bought stocks and mutual funds with no idea how the market worked. This is probably how most people invest. Over the past couple years, I’ve begun to read about saving and investing, trying to get an understanding of the basics.
It’s important not just to research the individual stocks you purchase, but to also understand how the market works. This may seem daunting, but it doesn’t have to be. There are many fine books and web sites that can provide the necesseary foundation. Check out Michael Fischer’s video series on saving and investing, for example. Visit CNNMoney’s Money 101. Or borrow one of these books from the public library:
The Four Pillars of Investing by William Bernstein — I recently finished this book, and found it fascinating. Four Pillars is more theoretical than the other books I recommended, and it will appeal to readers who like to know the why behind an author’s recommendations. Bernstein looks at the theory, history, psychology, and business of investing to discover patterns. This is the book I recommend most highly for readers wanting to get started with investing. [My review.]- The Bogleheads’ Guide to Investing by Larimore, Lindauer, and LeBoeuf — You want expert investment advice? You can’t beat the info found here. These devotees of Vanugard founder John Bogle are big on slow, sure investments like indexed mutual funds. They tap their decades of experience to teach about diversification, inflation, and asset allocation. It’s not nearly as boring as it sounds. Highly recommended.
- The Random Walk Guide to Investing by Burton Malkiel — Malkiel’s advice can be stated in a few short sentences: Eliminate debt. Establish an emergency fund. Begin making regular investments to a diversified portfolio of index funds. Be patient. But the simplicity of his message does not detract from its value. This is an excellent book because it sticks to the basics. [My review.]
- The Only Investment Guide You’ll Ever Need by Andrew Tobias — Andrew Tobias is an entertaining writer. His jocular, conversational tone will keep you interested as he describes mutual funds, bonds, and treasury bills. There’s a good section on how to handle a windfall (lottery, inheritance). This is a great introduction to the subject of investing.
What advice do you have somebody who wants to get started with investing? Can you recommend books? Web sites? Are you willing to share mistakes you’ve made? What would you do differently?
Note: We tackled a similar question about eighteen months ago.



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July 18th, 2008 at 5:35 am
In my mind, the very first question you need to ask is What do I want to invest for? Saving for a vacation next year, for a down payment on a house in five years, or for retirement in twenty years each require different investment philosophies. This will dictate what you want to invest in (because some investments are riskier than others, and you can afford to be riskier if you have a longer time horizon), and then you can let that dictate where you want to invest.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:40 am
Brian is right. You need to know how long you want to invest for before anything else…
I suggest Vanguard’s STAR fund (VGSTX) for first time investors. It is known as a fund of funds. A good mix of stocks/bonds (about 60/40). The minimum opening deposit is $1000 instead of $3000. Also, they only require $50 minimums for additonal transactions, not $100. You just have to make electronic transactions. The expense ratio on this fund is only .32% with no other fees. Should be just right for any beginner.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:05 am
If you decide to go the stock market route, my best advice is to practice before you jump in. Taking some time to understand and know the companies you think are a good match will make you feel better about where to put your money. Also you can get a feel for how the market fluctuates, even over a short amount of time.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:12 am
JD,
I started with Sharebuilder and am going to be opening a Zecco account soon. You just can’t pass up free trades
As for getting started I like some of the Motley Fool books - they really do a good job of simplifying investing.
In theory I agree with the suggestion to do some mock investing before jumping in, but personally I didn’t actually learn much until it was my own money on the line. So, I did the mock stuff for a while, but then I moved up and threw a couple hundred dollars at a couple of stocks. That was when I started learning. Until I actually had money on the line, it just didn’t mean much to me…
July 18th, 2008 at 6:19 am
I second the recommendation for The Bogleheads’ Guide to Investing. It is an entertaining read (as investment books go), and there is just enough general personal finance material to keep my head above water. When I read a very technical investing book I get lost really quick, but not so with Bogleheads.
I also like the idea of accumulating cash at ING (or similar) and then opening something with Vanguard. It’s hard to go wrong with their Total Market and Total International Market index funds in terms of maximum diversity.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:19 am
Get into a good mutual fund family that offers a lot of noload funds, especially overseas. In the last five years I’ve had a return of 40-44% and that is will a 100% in foreign investment. Dollar cost averaging is the most powerful tool and you will sleep better at night. Stay out of the stock market, that is a job for your mutual fund manager. Read “Grow your money” by Jonathan D. Pond for a great overview of how to build wealth and how to go broke.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:28 am
Great question, answer and comments.
I’ll have to check into the Zecco option. It sounds good.
I use my ING high-interest account to pre-save my yearly Roth contribution and have some extra savings in there. I have used the extra savings to buy their short-term CD’s in the past but the interest rate on them isn’t much higher than the high-interest account’s rate. I feel like the return on my investment after tying my money up for 6-9 months isn’t that great.
It may be fun to get a bit more aggressive with my investing and give stocks a try.
I’m a bit intimidated by investing in stocks, but with the market so low at the moment, it may be a good time to buy some and learn some new things at the same time.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:33 am
I just finished, “The Warren Buffett Way” and I found it highly interesting. I had to pick up some terms from context so I imagine a simpler book might be a good start. While I’m in my learning stage, I stick to mutual funds in my 401k and Vanguard in my IRA.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Minimum initial investment in Vanguard’s STAR fund is $1,000 with $100 additional investment minimum. And with any Vanguard account under $10K, make sure you sign up for electronic delivery of docs to avoid an account fee.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:39 am
Ignoring all the comments about “what am I investing for” I’m just going to assume the guy wants to learn the game because its fun.
Start with sector oriented ETFs as they trade like stocks and you can watch the intraday movements.
I wish I had, but you will also learn a lot buy just picking SOMETHING for $50 and just watch where it goes.
I started with $100 a few years ago with sharebuilder, I like their service.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:53 am
This is boring, but she should really just invest at Vanguard (or some similar place) in an index fund, probably a Target Retirement fund.
If that doesn’t satisfy her curiosity, she could also take much smaller amounts that she’s willing to lose in order to learn (like $50), and invest it in whatever random company just to see how it works.
Nothing about the stock market is “not-too-risky” if you don’t know what you’re doing. And most people don’t know what they’re doing. Don’t listen to all the crazy people who are going to come out of the woodwork and tell you to invest in e-gold because it’s a sure thing.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:58 am
This is an important question for beginning wealth-builders, “how do I get started and what investing strategy should I choose?”
Beginners are usually confused about what investing strategy to choose, usually they’re even confused about what strategy they are currently implementing. This happens because most people learn about investing from their friends, coworkers, family, and whatever investing related magazines, newspapers, and Internet sites they follow. What they wind up with is a hodgepodge of random information to base their investments on rather than any cohesive strategy. The greatest danger in this is that, while most strategies work quite well on their own if implemented properly, they are usually quite disastrous when investors try to combine them together.
When you combine strategies with different (often opposing) goals and selection criteria, you are virtually guaranteed to trail the market. Really, that bad? Yes, that bad. Over 80% of professional fund managers and investing advisors lag the S&P 500 as it is. You have to excel to beat the indices and to excel you have to master your strategy.
Another reason many investors implement multiple strategies is that they think it will somehow decrease risk or increase returns. This is a mistake. Don’t ever be fooled into thinking combining strategies will insulate you from losses or optimize gains, only proper diversification and asset allocation can do that. Study several strategies, then pick one. Are you an aggressive investor with a long way to go until retirement? Consider becoming a Growth Investor. Do you want a low maintenance portfolio that will guarantee you the market’s return? Consider becoming an Index Investor. Are you risk averse and hoping to buy companies that are undervalued so that you can grow while limiting downside potential? Consider becoming a Value Investor. These are just a few examples, there is a great strategy for every type of investor, you will never need to combine them.
You can find strategy reviews for 8 of today’s most popular strategies at http://www.money-and-investing.com/Stock-Market-Investing-Strategy-c.html if you have some time to kill. Each review will cover the major goals, investment selection methods, strengths, weaknesses, risks, and long-term outlook for the strategy you’re reading about. You’ll probably be excited about several strategies at first since great investors have used them to outperform their peers and the market for decades. Pay particular attention to the “investor profile” section of the reviews, because you won’t be able to master a strategy if it is at odds with your personality, risk tolerance, or investing goals.
Cheers and best of luck!!!
Odd Lot
July 18th, 2008 at 7:12 am
WATCH OUT FOR FEES!!!!!!! It’s a classic mistake, and despite trying not to make any of those I walked right into it.
I recently made my very first (non-work sponsored 403(b)/401(k)) investment purchase, an index fund that I carefully checked into to read about expense ratios and management and so on and so forth. I saved for a whole year to come up with the $1000 investment and I was so pleased with myself when I submitted the order… so imagine my shock and extreme displeasure when I noticed the $49.95 fee. Some of the mutual funds at my brokerage had low/no fee to purchase, but from there the price jumped straight to $49.95/trade, and I had unwittingly picked one of the expensive ones. So my advice from one beginner to another is don’t just read all the fine print on the thing you want to buy… read ALL the fine print EVERYWHERE. It’s going to take me FOREVER to recoup that $50 fee, in earnings on that fund!
July 18th, 2008 at 7:13 am
This entry was just what I needed to read. I was just thinking about what I should do with all the the money I just have sitting in my savings. I noticed that you didn’t put sources related specifically targeting ETF investing. ETF MarketPro has some educational resources on how to invest in them. Thanks again for the post!
July 18th, 2008 at 7:25 am
JD, you didn’t recommend paper investing. Picking a stock, pretending you bought it, and tracking it. That is the best way to get started without any risk whatsoever.
Learning the basics of equity analysis and knowing what all the numbers mean on a stock chart is probably the best piece of advice you can give anyone who wants to learn to invest.
July 18th, 2008 at 7:31 am
I’m a huge fan of the passive investment approach outlined by Daniel Solin, in this video presentation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0LSG2omvEg
In short, buy into index funds that cover the whole market. If you stick to the index funds, and avoid the temptation to pick individual stocks, you will do better than 95% of investors. Worry about your asset allocation (stocks vs. bonds), and your target retirement date, but don’t worry about picking individual stocks.
July 18th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Hi,
You might want to try joining an investment club. As members, we pool our money ($50 per month) to buy stocks. We’re formed as a legal partnership with bylaws and officers.
At meetings, we receive an education about finance and investing and it’s also a social outlet. If you don’t want to pool your money together, you can start what’s called a “travelling” club, where you still meet to discuss stocks and investing, but you invest on your own.
Check out http://www.betterinvesting.org to find a club near you. Or, you can start your own. My website links to our investment club in Houston, TX, the Money in Action Investment Club.
Good luck!
July 18th, 2008 at 7:40 am
Mapgirl is right. You can use virtual stock exchange to create a virtual stock portfolio. google it…you’ll find the website. It’s free.
July 18th, 2008 at 7:50 am
I think someone mentioned The Motley Fool already. I have go along with that idea. Check out their website (www.fool.com) to get yourself educated on investing. I’m a big fan of it myself.
July 18th, 2008 at 8:01 am
If you are truly starting out and have $0 invested, the last thing you want to do is invest in individual stocks. I started retirement investing right out of college and have been plugging away the Vanguard Target Retirement Fund 2045 into my Roth IRA. Serious investing money goes into index funds and if I ever have some extra I think I can play with I’ll try my hand at the stock market. The great thing about a fund of funds is you can get instant diversification with a relatively small upfront investment and extremely low expenses.
July 18th, 2008 at 8:24 am
I can relate. I have been fascinated by investing for a long time. At first I was in an investment club that had a sharebuilder like arrangement of DRIP’ing into individual stock ownership. Ultimately I was convinced that, instead, the way to go is to diversify widely to mitigate risk using low cost index funds. And Vanguard imho is really the place to do that - I have become a fan.
I have always planned to invest outside retirement accounts because of my interest and enthusiasm for investing, but almost 15 years after starting to invest in index funds - I still haven’t invested outside retirement accounts. I do IRAs in Vanguard and also have an emergency fund in the Prime Money Market Fund. You can transfer money electronically from checking. One day I still plan to do taxable investing, but right now it is challenging enough to fully fund the tax advantaged accounts.
To supplement JD’s great column, I see he mentioned the Bogleheads book in his recommended reading. There is also a Bogleheads website. I am a lurker there, not a poster. I think the posters there are great and love to read them:
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=1
July 18th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Watch even the free areas of Investors Business Daily for lots of good hints and tips.
Even at the basic account free level, for charts and definitions and some learning tools go to prophet.net
ETFs are the only way to go for the small investor, just the concept of trying to work round trip transaction costs out of your gain and you have to be doing a pretty good gain to make the trade profitable to start with. Plus things like wash sale rules and short term capital gains will eat you alive if you don’t understand them.
To seriously become an active trader due to SEC rules like pattern day traders I recommend don’t try it with less than 40k cash.
The trend is your friend
Don’t try to catch a falling knife
Never ever fall in love with a stock.
For the real bottom end starting out type you may even want to consider forgetting all about the market and simply buy some good old US Savings Bonds to accumulate some capital tax free.
July 18th, 2008 at 8:56 am
My advice is to start with an imaginary portfolio and pretend to trade as if you were doing it for real. This is a great way to learn about the market. The next would be to open up a brokerage account and start with about $1000 and begin investing via ETF’s initially. I recently wrote an article (see site) for my brother in law on how to actually execute a share trade - looks complicated but is very easy in reality.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:03 am
As a previous poster mentioned, fees can be a huge anchor on any beginning investment. If you are adding $50 dollars at a time with a $5 dollar transaction fee, you effectively have a 10% front-end load(which is outrageous). The same argument applies to dollar-cost investing in ETF’s.
If Christina is looking to invest for a long-term goal, such as retirement, Vanguard is an excellent conduit to the market. Many beginning investors start with a STAR fund, due to their lower entry costs.
It should be noted that, when you first start investing for retirement, contribution amounts are way more important than asset allocation. Get the money into the market, make it a habit, and don’t worry about optimizing your portfolio. As long as you minimize expenses(which you will with any fund at Vanguard), you can’t really screw up that badly.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Learning to invest is no different than learning to get from A to B (or learning anything for that matter). Do you want to walk? Run? Take the bus? Take a cab? Drive a motorcycle, a car? Stick or automatic? The more you want to get involved in the details, the more time you have to dedicate to learning and practice. The “problem” is that it is easy to get into complicated investing whereas it is not so easy to get into, say, complicated do-it-yourself open heart surgery. This makes it easy for rookies to plunk down money without knowing what you’re doing. If that is the case, the best think to do is either to walk which happens at a slow pace, or take the bus. If you get lost, at least you’ll get lost along with all the other passengers and not feel too bad about it. Walking is equivalent to savings account and money market accounts. Taking the bus is equal to index funds. For the next step, I would recommend looking around for mutual funds. Download their share holder letters. After reading several dozens(!) of those you should have an idea that not all funds are created equal and more importantly, not all fund managers are equal. hussmanfunds.com writes weekly letter published on his website which I like.
A fund gives you something that an index does not explicitly give you - it gives you an interpretation or a model of what is happening. They generally don’t discuss their analyses of individual companies. For that you have to become the equivalent of a doctor. Now investing is not rocket science but I also think that it’s not something one can pick up by considering which products in the sueprmarket strikes one’s fancy. It’s a wee bit more complicated than that. Hmm, maybe I should write a post about that.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:06 am
What many folks seem to miss in this is that ShareBuilder and others promote ETFs, which are index based funds. They tend to have lower expense ratios than even index mutual funds. As long as you’re not actively trading them and saving for the long run, you can be better off with these than even with great index mutual funds from players like Vanguard. ShareBuilder has a portfolio builder which can help you determine what mix of ETFs you may want to get you started. It’s a nice tool.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I actually started with just picking funds in my retirement accounts - I learned a lot that way, because you find out that there is a lot of information to sift through.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:12 am
This is VERY timely for me as well. I’ve been pondering that question for the last month or so and last night picked up 2 books that I had requested through Inter-library loan:
The Four Pillars of Investment &
The Boggleheads’ Guide to Investment
due to reviews and recommendations here and other financial blogs I frequent. I’m sure to disappoint a few people in my local library system this week!
July 18th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Accumulating wealth through investing is easy.
Concentrate on your career. The more money you make, the more you can save.
Save and invest at least 15% of your gross salary every year.
Start as early as possible.
Use low cost Vanguard Index Funds.
Aggressive people : 20% bonds, 56% US stocks, 24% International stocks.
Less aggressive people - have more money in bonds, but keep at least 30% of your equities in the international arena.
Stick with this plan for 30 years.
If anyone wants lots of free advice, the Bogleheads have their own website. You can pose questions and get really good answers.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:19 am
For a start, besides reading above mentioned books, it might be a good idea to practice investing with some virtual money. On this web site http://www.updown.com/ you can start investing with 1 million virtual $$$ and learn how the market works.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:26 am
The Bogleheads’ Guide to Investing is a good informative read. I would also suggest “The Lazy Person’s Guide to Investing”– quite humorous but straightforward with advice. I’m glad I came across this post; some very good advice in both the entry and comments!
July 18th, 2008 at 9:31 am
For a start, besides reading above mentioned books, it might be a good idea to practice investing with virtual money. On this web site (Updown.com) you can start investing with 1 million virtual $$$ and learn how the market works.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:48 am
We went the Vanguard route for our first investments about 10 years ago when you could open a Roth IRA with $1000 using most of their funds. If you are investing for retirement and don’t know a lot, it’s hard to do better than their Target Retirement funds. For less-defined long term goals, the Star fund is also good.
As time went on we experimented with buying individual shares and tinkering with various investment strategies, but ultimately we went back to Vanguard and that’s where we’ll stay. It’s inexpensive, they care about their shareholders (for example: when you call you get a person; if they think you’ve made a mistake on an investment form they’ll call you to ask for clarification; etc.), and it’s simple. I rebalance our investments and check our portfolio once a year (I get a reminder call) and the rest of the time I never have to think about it.
Because I’m paranoid about retirement and our kid’s education, in the last three years I’ve met with three different financial planners and their advice was the same every time: “Everything is fine.” For us Vanguard funds are perfect because they let us get on with our lives.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:51 am
To Christina:
I can see that you are specifically asking about “not too risky, basic investing”. Obviously, there are many opinions on investing, but it seems that one thing a lot of people agree on these days is that there is one particularly great route for basic investing that has much less risk: the index funds that people are mentioning here.
What is an index fund? It is a mutual fund, or a collection of money from numerous investors that is managed by an entity like Vanguard. An index fund is more basic, and less risky than most other stock market investments because it is not just a random collection of stocks that the fund manager thinks might do well. It is a collection of stocks that mirrors an index, hence the name index fund. What is an index? Some stock indexes you may have heard of are the Dow Jones, the NASDAQ, and the S&P 500. The mutual funds that are index funds for these indexes buy the stocks that make up each index, and so the fund goes up and down in a similar way to how the index goes up and down. This has historically tended to be a very safe way to get decent returns.
The classic index fund of this type, I believe, is the Vanguard S&P 500 Index Fund. The reason we are all saying Vanguard, Vanguard, Vanguard, is because Vanguard’s funds are “no load” funds, which means they have minimal fees. They don’t have sneaky fees like some of the ones mentioned above. They have a small fee (like $10) if your balance is less than $10,000, and there is a very, very low expense ratio (cost of running the fund) because it is run sort of automatically rather than micromanaged by humans. If you look at charts of this you will see that Vanguard’s expense ratio is significantly lower than any other company (at least in the past, unsure if there are new ones that are competitive).
So in short:
1. Buy index fund
2. Buy Vanguard (no they did not pay me to plug them! I’ve been a very happy customer for about 10 years)
3. Consider the S&P 500 Index, a classic fund
(I personally switched over to the ‘Social Index fund’ to try to be invested in more socially responsible companies, but that is not for everyone)
4. Wait for money to grow - it will take years and years… don’t keep looking at your account daily because this year is a down year!
July 18th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Does anyone know of an online sight that allows you to trade on the Australian Stock Exchange?
July 18th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I have some general suggestions:
- Do not invest in ‘pink-sheet’ or ‘OTC’ stocks. You will receive ‘hot tips’. Do not act on them. Buying these types of stocks as a novice is the quickest way of losing money I know.
- Do not invest in the ‘new hot stock of the month’. You will hear a lot of suggestions on TV and in the news. Pretty much (unless you understand what you are doing), you will be buying at the top and selling at the bottom(in panic).
- My suggestion is to buy ETFs and not FUNDs. I own both, but will be moving exclusively to ETFs in the future. There are two reasons. (1) ETFs can be sold mid-day if needed rather than waiting till the NAV is calculated after hours before you realize just how bad things have become. and (2) You can use stop-losses on ETFs and not on FUNDs. (If you do not understand what, why and how a stop-loss works, then heaven help you.)
- Either buy several books on investing so you learn the breadth of the business and the intricacies or buy one book to learn the ropes and another that focuses on the strategy you wish to use. My guess is that one of the ‘For Dummies’ series would be a good primer. I go to Amazon.com for any and all text style books. I check the ratings and then read all the comments before I buy a book. In that way, I get a broad consensus and develop a feel for how other people feel about the book. I’m looking for people that operate at my speed. Also, you can buy the book used at a discount.
My favorite investing book for newbies and intermediates to date is “INVEST WITH SUCCESS” by Charles Schaap. This is a simple ’system’ book that works with stocks, ETFs and FUNDs. But, it also encompasses a broad understanding of the stock market throughout the book which helps the reader understand the ‘why’ of the market. It is very readable and they have a webpage which you can access for ongoing materials. He is also a guest contributor to TDAmeritrades ‘webinars’ if you feel like listening first.
Thx jegan
July 18th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
use the share builder option to invest when your moneymarket balance reaches a certain amount so that the transaction cost is a lower percentage of the investment. I do it at 200.00.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Another Timely Post from this great site!
I’ve been investing my 401k in Vanguard’s Target Retirement 2045 Fund (VTIVX), which covers the entire stock & bond market in one fund, a great way to DIVERSIFY. VTIVX automatically decreases in risk as you get older by investing more in bonds and less in stocks, talk about a built in stratgey!
I’m also looking into Vanguard Dividend Appeciation Index Fund (VDIAX), which focuses on companies that pay steady quarterly dividends to shareholders — thus giving you regular (taxable) income on top of your share price. Keeping this in a tax sheltered account (401k/IRA) will keep the tax man away too!
July 18th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
John Egan: If you think you can sell your ETFs mid-day right when you realize “how bad things are” and then get back in just before everyone else realizes how good things are getting, then heaven help YOU.
I have to agree with Larry Lansing above. Watch Daniel Solin’s video where he talked to Google:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0LSG2omvEg
It’s an hour long video, but he’ll explain why a lot of the crap you’re hearing out there (like the stuff John Egan is spewing) is crap. You’ll also get a good review of what you should be doing instead.
Picking stocks, timing markets, and any other sophisticated “active” investing strategies are a losing man/woman’s game. Don’t get sucked in to paying for the yachts of all the financial “gurus” out there…
July 18th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
The Australian Stock Exchange has free online courses for anyone who wants to do them. We say shares where you say stocks and some investment vehicles will be different between the countries but the basic underlying information will be the same and you can learn about Price/Earnings ratios and how to pick a stock. I’ve only just started them but they are good.
http://asx.com.au/resources/education/classes/online.htm
July 18th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
I’d like to second the idea of investment clubs and http://www.betterinvesting.org/Public/default. There are chapters in most states, and tons of help. Just got back from the national convention, and it was exhilarating.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
For anyone just getting into stocks, I’d just buy a few diversified funds or ETFs. Etrade has a few ETFs that are low in fees. I have their US S&P and international ETF as part of my portfolio.
Don’t try to be smart and start picking individual stocks until you learn more about how the market works. It’s human nature to think that we will be able to pick the right stocks each time.
I’ve gotten burned before so I speak from experience.
- James
http://www.bankaround.com
July 18th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
The best advice I can give someone looking to invest is to not put all their eggs in one basket at the beginning (especially when they don’t know much about what they are investing it). Try with a little bit of money, learn the ropes, learn how to invest in your chosen area (whether it be stocks, option, real estate or business). Then once you have learnt how to master that area (and probably lost a little bit of money along the way) then it is time to take the real plunge and invest more of your money into what you KNOW will make money
July 18th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
A suggestion that no one has made yet.
Get professional help. You don’t build your house yourself, or your computer, most don’t even do their own taxes. Why would you invest yourself?
I’m biased, my father is a Investment Advisor. He is decent and honest, and last year all his clients combined made 25% on investments.(word of mouth, no guarantees, and might have been the year before..blah-blah disclaimer) He loves working with people that don’t have a million up front, but are just willing to invest a monthly amount and build to retirement. I’m not sure on fees, but I think he charges a percent, between 1-2%.
Do the math. you might make 10%, or 20%, or buying your own stocks you might make 0% or worse. If you make 10% and a professional makes 15% in the same market, that 1% fee looks like a really good deal.
Why not try a professional who will diversify over a lot of funds, and types of investments, and even pool your money with others in some cases.
Obviously be very careful who you choose. There are scammers, cheats, or worse, and then there’s those who look out for themselves first with tons of up front fees, and only buy funds they get kickbacks on, etc.
Brian
July 18th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
I have another book recommendation that I believe is comprehensive and is easy for the new investor to follow. The book is entitled “The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Investing”
July 18th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
You need to be aware of your investing enemies: Fees and Taxes. If you have a long term objective (retirement savings) the vehicle you invest in is important as well. Before investing a dime in a taxable account, you should ensure that you are doing what you can in tax advantaged accounts (401K, 403b, Traditional IRA, Roth IRA, etc) or at least take an hour to evaluate the pros and cons of doing so.
I personally don’t care much for funds - they are OK for retirement accounts (and sometimes they are the only option available) but I would never have one in a taxable account. They are an accounting pain. You can get hit with capital gains even in a losing year. With stocks and bonds, you have better control over your taxable events.
July 18th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Don’t forget the preliminary steps!
1. Eliminate debt.
2. Set up your emergency fund (3-5 mos. expenses in a liquid (available) account.
3. Establish your goal(s). If you don’t have anything specific, it’s never too early to establish a retirement fund.
4. If you have access to a 401K plan at work, use that, especially if the company matches any part of your contribution.
5. Read some of the books that have been recommended. I haven’t read through all comments yet, but a couple I haven’t noticed (at a quick glance) are The Wealthy Barber by Chilton & The Millionaire Next Door by Stanley & Danko. These are more geared to “wealth-building” than investment per se, but I think that’s important.
6. Think very hard about how *you* feel about risk.
7. Only then, start to think about what to invest in and how to accomplish that. You don’t need to be in a great rush; although you will want to dollar-cost-average, you can afford to be out of the market at the moment ;).
8. Unless you have plenty of time (and interest) for research, I don’t recommend that a beginner invest in individual stocks, not matter how cheap the trades will be.
9. My recommendation is to start with an index mutual fund with a very low expense ratio that invests according to some broad index like the S&P 500. See if you can establish such an account for a moderate sum AND sign up for regular electronic contributions for as much as you can afford to put away.
Good luck!
July 18th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Forget books and the United States. Everybody knows that China and India will lead humanity into the 21’st century, most American jobs are being outsourced to there. What does this mean for stock picking? I look to GRS for the answers, but only see recommendations for buying S&P 500 index funds. I’m fairly sure that the USA will underperform the global market over the next 10, 20, 50, 100 years, since other countries are growing much more quickly. So what is recommendation of site?
July 18th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Ive read a few of the suggestions above. There is some really good advice in there, and some really bad advice. You should know the purpose of the investment - retirement, house, child’s college.
Ive worked in a brokerage house, during college, with “investment advisers / professionals” and they are simply salesmen who know how to separate you from your money. You will not ever get any advice from them that you cannot find for your self though reading.
You have three basic goals:
1. Minimize risks.
2. Maximize return.
3. Minimize fees.
In order to do this you need to diversify in two basic ways. First you should own funds and not individual stocks. Do yourself a favor and invest in a bond fund along with your investment is stock funds. These two points should take care or your risk. I would do a 70% stocks / 30% bonds arrangement through vanguard.
Maximization of return is complicated, at best. A portfolio that is well diversified will help a great deal. Fees will rob you of return. A recent study of returns on mutual funds shows a strong link between high fees - greater than 0.8% - and poor returns.
To minimize fees, do not purchase ETF’s. You will have management fees, and purchase fees. These only make sense if you are investing amounts greater than 4 to 5 thousand. My personal recommendation is to go to vanguard.com. Vanguard has an offering, vanguard star, that will get you into their funds for $1000 that is already diversified and has low fees.
If you are investing for a period of more than 10 to 12 years move toward a more aggressive balance. After you build up $12,000 change over to a few different vanguard funds and make sure to include some international stocks. That should get you started.
Good luck, and don’t panic when the markets go crazy - up or down. stick to your guns.
Check out this article for great advice: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89324244
July 18th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
“Frugal Bachelor”: I’d suggest reading “Becoming Your Own Stock Guru” by James Trippon .. Bought a copy on Amazon.com for $9.00. He is a proponent of Jim Roger’s thinking. Rogers was a founding partner with George Soros and is highly successful. In fact he moved to China with his family to be where the action is. If you Google his name, you’ll see quite a lot of articles regarding his approach.
If you are looking for China Funds, I’d suggest either FXI, CHN or USX - These are ETFs and not funds… If you read the book, you’ll understand why ETFs rather than Funds… The China markets are **EXTREMELY** volatile. And although there are many good stocks such as China Mobile, BIDU etc, these stocks and ETFs ramp up like rockets and drop like rocks. Definitely read up on anything using Morningstar.com (Sign up for their 14 day trial and download as many reports as you can.)
China had an amazing runup last year and then had an amazing drop. I think theey’re down about 40%, so you better learn how to read charts, or sign up for Trippon’s or Roger’s service, otherwise, your account will be slammed.
For the record, although you are probably correct in the long run, China is facing some very difficult situations. Off the top of my head, ask yourself how a manufacturing county supports a massive population when they retire and ask who works the factories in light of their heavily enforced ‘one child per family’ requirement. Think of our own social security problems and we are still producing 2.3 kids per family.
Happy investing… Thx jegan
July 18th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
“Frugal Bachelor”:
I’d suggest reading “Becoming Your Own Stock Guru” by James Trippon .. Bought a copy on Amazon.com for $9.00. He is a proponent of Jim Roger’s thinking. Rogers was a founding partner with George Soros and is highly successful. In fact he moved to China with his family to be where the action is. If you Google his name, you’ll see quite a lot of articles regarding his approach.
If you are looking for China Funds, I’d suggest either FXI, CHN or USX - These are ETFs and not funds… If you read the book, you’ll understand why ETFs rather than Funds… The China markets are **EXTREMELY** volatile. And although there are many good stocks such as China Mobile, BIDU etc, these stocks and ETFs ramp up like rockets and drop like rocks. Definitely read up on anything using Morningstar.com (Sign up for their 14 day trial and download as many reports as you can.)
China had an amazing runup last year and then had an amazing drop. I think they’re down about 40%, so you better learn how to read charts, or sign up for Trippon’s or Roger’s service, otherwise, your account will be slammed.
For the record, although you are probably correct in the long run, China is facing some very difficult situations. Off the top of my head, ask yourself how a manufacturing county supports a massive population when they retire and ask who works the factories in light of their heavily enforced ‘one child per family’ requirement. Think of our own social security problems and we are still producing 2.3 kids per family.
Happy investing… Thx jegan
July 18th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I’ll go against some of the advice here and recommend NOT starting with an imaginary portfolio. Unless you are planning to become a day trader, the results of your imaginary portfolio are absolutely meaningless. Figure out what you are investing for; for most of us, that will be a retirement that is decades away. Savings rate, broad diversification and low fees are our friends. Trying to gamble money on particular stocks is a losing game in the long run.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
I’m not sure this will help Christina, but the hardest part for me was getting comfortable with clicking on buy/trade/sell and knowing whether I wanted a market order, etc. It wasn’t the concept of investing, it was the mechanics.
To get over this, I started with smaller amounts of money. Losing a bit on commissions isn’t the worst thing if that’s what it takes to get comfortable. Also, starting to invest with a friend was a huge help.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:17 am
If you don’t have any experience investing, play with some virtual investing websites. You don’t use your own money, you start with fake money, but you fake invest in real securities in the real market. Then you can better understands the risks and research that go into actual investing without risking your own money. This isn’t to encourage you to day trade, to just to familiarize yourself with the “enter your ticker symbol here” “cofirm to buy” etc buttons so that you have confidence when dealing with your own money.
Also - if you’re investing in mutual funds, Scottrade doesn’t charge transaction fees for hundreds of no-load, no-fee funds.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:10 am
I’ve always had trouble reading investment books — I fall asleep half-way through.
Find out if there are investing classes where you live. I took courses given by our school board’s continuing education program. The benefit is that we could ask tons of questions that the books don’t address.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:34 am
Good question! I believe the best first solution for most people is the simplest - a cheap index tracker fund. Friends who have put just a hundred or so away a month have been amazed when they remember to check their accounts after a few years of (dollar cost averaged!) growth.
Many people have know idea what it feels like to have a growing pool of capital. Getting that feeling going is a vital first step, in my view.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
On “pretend” portfolios: I don’t recommend them. It’s like playing poker for chips. Poker for chips is a different game than poker for money, and anyone who plays even at the amateur level can tell that. You’ll never be as serious about investing for play as if you choose to put some amount of money on the line.
When I wanted to learn about investing (in individual stocks) I took an amount of money, in my case $1000, and researched a lot stocks to see what I wanted. It was really hard, very hard, harder than it seems when you read the books. In the end, I couldn’t decide and split the money and put $500 each on two stocks. I made 20% in 6 months, not so much because of my brilliance, but because the market did well overall. I sold the stocks to buy something else.
This was mid 2006, and I just this week checked to see how the top six contender stocks had done. Of them, nearly all had done better than the S&P 500. But one of them was WB, a financial, and it was down 75%. On average I’d probably have done just about like an index fund if I had taken some in each company, but my risk was a lot higher.
Now, if you mean serious investment, and not individual stocks… Personally, I recommend ETFs to begin. I started with mutual funds, but the fees on ETFs are so much lower that if I was totally in ETFs right now, my portfolio would probably be $100-200 cheaper in fees per year. Add to that, that you can get into a diversified portfolio of ETFs cheaper than you can get into most mutual funds, and they just make sense.
I think some variation of the Margaritaville portfolio makes sense. I.e. 33% VTI (US stocks), 33% VEU (non-US stocks), and 33% TIP (inflation protected bonds).
If you aren’t an aggressive personality, you might choose more bonds. Perhaps a portfolio like 45% VTI, 15% VEU, 40% TIP.
For VEU you could substitute EFA very reasonably. For TIP you might substitute AGG if you want exposure to corporate bonds and not just treasuries.
So save up, say $3000 in a discount brokerage account and figure out to the nearest share how much of each ETF you want. Place three purchases, one for each category you want to own. Then let it sit until next year. If your account provides free dividend reinvestment, ask for it.
Now, this is key: Next year, the amount you have devoted to each category will vary from your intended percentages. REBALANCE. Make your new purchases to bring the amount of US/non-US/bonds back to the correct amounts, again purchasing to the nearest share (unless you use a service like Sharebuilder that lets you buy partial shares).
The rebalancing is what reduces risk in an investment portfolio. It is trite and not that clever to say “don’t put your eggs in one basket,” but the real reduction of risk is only partially provided by diversification. A substantial portion of risk reduction comes from rebalancing. It matters more than you think, and if you fail to rebalance you don’t reduce your risk as much as you believe.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
To follow up on my post: if $3000 is too much to save in a short period of time for you, then save $1000 and buy your VTI. Then when you get your second $1000 saved, buy your VEU. Then TIP. Nothing says you have to make each investment simultaneously. Perhaps if you feel more timid about stocks, you do VTI, then TIP, then VEU. Whatever.
You’ll still have a goal of getting into different asset classes, and you’ll want to invest less in the parts of your portfolio that have performed well and more in the laggards, trying at least to “bounce around” the ideal balanced portfolio. But you can get started without having the whole chunk of change together at the same time.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
The Only Investment Guide You’ll Ever Need is the best book — hands-down — about leaving beneath your means and investing wisely. It was published long before any blog and it still is as valuable today as it was then.
You can read Tobias’ “blog” today, at andrewtobias.com.
I’d suggest somebody test the waters with index funds and then branch out to a mix of index, foreign, and sector funds, sprinkling in a few individual stocks when the time is right. Never invest money you cannot afford to lose.
If inflation rears its ugly head, a good way to play the eventual drop in interest rates is a zero-coupon bond fund (remember Econ 101: Interest rates drop, bond prices rise). The leverage is remarkable on these and they’re sure-fire IF/WHEN rates drop. We’re nowhere near that, but with the Fed wanting to keep inflation in check, and oil prices high, food prices on the rise, and all other commodities rising, too, you can bet that if we avert a recession, we’ll be headstrong in an inflationary period.
July 20th, 2008 at 7:40 am
Yes my favorte place for people to begin investing is with the long
standing Pax World Balanced fund. It has a 30-year track record, it is
green/socially responsible fund, and only has a $250 min. initial
investment required to open an account. Go to http://www.paxworld.com for
more information on this well-respected fund.
- Cliff, GreenMoney.com
July 20th, 2008 at 8:21 am
make sure you’re out of debt first. that’s key. once you’re out of debt, investing is a wonderful tool. just make sure to do your research. don’t do it blindly.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Vanguard has ETFs as well, which are very low cost. As a Canadian I can’t buy their index funds but I do own some of their ETFs. Because of transaction costs of ETFs, investors should get started with the index funds.
Mike
July 20th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Learning how to invest and manage large sums at some point in the future is important. Starting to invest with small amounts over a long time is a good start. This is more important than paying off the mortgage early (and then ending up with a larger sum to invest…and a need to learn fast). Part of this learning is watching your investments grow and and at times shrink.
My suggestions for beginning are reading books, starting with a low cost mutual fund (and dollar cost averaging). After a few years of this and further learning, you can branch out and do more. Then I would recommend either learning to step things up and/or getting professional help. But if you go with an advisor, I’d want to make sure that I knew enough to make sure that my interest was taken care of.
Good luck with learning to invest. Stick with it and look at it as a long term project. I started learning about investing about 20 years ago; started investing about 15 years ago and am just starting to think I’m making some good progress.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
ETF iShares looks like a good place to start investing.
July 21st, 2008 at 9:31 am
As far as good books, Warren Buffet bases his investing strategies on Benjamin Graham and Philip Fisher. If you know at least a little about the market I would recommend reading “The Intelligent Investor” by Graham and “Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits” by Fisher
July 21st, 2008 at 9:44 am
I signed up with Sharebuilder and got their free $50 promotion. I took the $50 and like weakonomist says, picked something. I figure I’m working house money, so no big investment on my part and I watch to see where it goes from there.
July 21st, 2008 at 7:41 pm
I’m out of debt, but a long way from having a large enough emergency fund, so I’m saving for that now. However I do own stock. I bought stock that was available directly through a company, and was a DRIP. I could start with $50 and add $50 whenever,and the fees are very low. The stock split and it consistently earns dividends. I have a very small amount, but when my friends talk about investing and their portfolios (many of them are in much higher income brackets than I am) I can smile to myself knowing that I too am a stock holder. It helps me to keep the green-eyed monster at bay. Eventually I will be able to do bigger investing, but I chose carefully and so far, so good.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Is Vanguard’s STAR fund an index fund? Or is it just a normal mutual fund? (sorry if this is a dumb question… still learning)
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Nico,
Vanguard’s STAR fund (VGSTX) is a large cap blend. It’s also what is known as a ‘fund of funds’. It carries a Morningstar ‘4 Star’ rating and has low expenses. It is cheap to buy into.
You might consider it a large blend index, except it doesn’t really follow any indeces. Having said that, it’s returns are not spectacular, but better than some. It seems to return about 10% per year in good years, only 6% last year and it lost 6% so far this year. When I say a fund of funds, it’s only holdings are other funds. Seems to me, you might want to go to Morningstar.com and copy down each fund that it holds, then look up each one and compare the results. Some of the funds it holds are better than others.
As a quick excercise, I also checked for funds that match the same characteristics on Morningstar.com and found this fund; State Farm Growth (STFGX), which not only is managed, but has a lower fee and is cheaper to get into. And it has a better performance record in general. (All except this year, which is worse….But over the last 5 years a better performer. No recommendation.. Just pointing out what’s available and where to find it..)
Thx jegan
September 9th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
I would recommend that you learn all you can about value investing. While there is some study involved, it is fairly straight-forward. Done properly and with a margin of safety your risk is minimized.