Why I Fought to Save Three Bucks (and Why You Should Too)
Thursday, 7th August 2008 (by J.D.)This article is about Basics, Marketing, Real-Life, Shopping
This guest post comes from Donna Freedman, a blogger at MSN Money’s Smart Spending blog. Donna is one of my favorite personal finance writers. This is a reprint (with permission) of one of her recent pieces.
On Friday I visited Office Depot for school backpacks at the killer price of $2.99. Along with other loss-leader school supplies, they’ll be donated to a local social services agency. At the checkout, I handed over a “20% off all backpacks” coupon from an Office Depot mailer. The cash register wouldn’t accept the coupon. “These are already on sale so the coupon won’t work,” the salesclerk said.
I noted, politely, that the coupon did not say “not good on sale-priced items.” The cashier tried again. No dice. “It’s not letting it go through,” she said, and waited. I got the distinct impression she wanted me to say, “Oh, that’s OK.” But I wasn’t going to say that, because my belief is that a store should honor its published offers.
She called a manager, who told me the coupon wasn’t intended for sale items. I again pointed out that nowhere on the coupon did it say that. This started off a 10-minute dance between manager and consumer over what would have been a $3 discount.
Before you write me off as an intractable miser, consider this: What happens when consumers do not insist that businesses keep their word?
All kinds of reasons
During our little discount minuet, the manager demanded to see the mailer from which I’d taken the ad, saying it would explain that the coupon was not good on sale items. I went out to my car and got the ad; it said no such thing.
The manager, whom I’ll call Nancy, tried several other tacks. She pored over the fine print in the store’s weekly ad — complaining it was hard to read because the doctor had dilated her eyes that morning — but nothing in the ad excluded coupons. She said that “corporate” never intended for coupons to be used with sale items, and that’s why the computer wouldn’t allow it — the computer is programmed by “corporate.”
If that’s the case, I suggested, then “not valid with sale items” ought to be written on the coupon.
She looked at it again, noting the phrase “we reserve the right to limit quantities.” I’d bought five, the limit noted in the weekly flier. Nancy said, “I’ll give you the coupon on one of them.” I replied that nowhere on the coupon does it say that it was good for just one item.
“It says ‘one-time use’, so I’ll let you have it for just the one.” I suggested that “one-time use” might actually mean that I couldn’t use the coupon again the next day.
Nancy said that when I signed up for the store rewards program, I would have gotten an e-mail explaining, among other things, why coupons couldn’t be used on sale items. I repeated, “Shouldn’t that be written on the coupon itself?”
A real headache
The manager said she’d send my “information” to corporate headquarters and have them explain why coupons can’t be used on sale items. First she asked for my driver’s license, which I would not have given, and then decided that just my rewards card would do. She wrote down the card number and told me that at $2.99, the store was losing money on the backpacks. Using a coupon made it worse.
I replied that I was familiar with the concept of a loss leader: you lose money on some items to get people into the store.
Finally the manager told the cashier to override the register and ring up the discount for all five backpacks. “I don’t want to spend any more time on this. I have a headache,” she said.
You and me both, Nancy. Confrontation is not easy for me. I simply wanted Office Depot to make good on its published promise.
Why you should care
Some of you are probably thinking, It’s only $3 — give it up, already. I don’t think that the amount matters. The company mailed me a flier full of discounts in the hope I would come to one of its stores. When I tried to use one of those discounts, employees decided that it shouldn’t apply to sales.
Suppose you saw a coupon good for 20% off all winter coats, but when you get to the store you’re told, “Oh, it’s not good on red coats.” Or imagine seeing a car ad, “20% off all Chevrolets,” but when you get to the dealership you’re told that it’s only good on four-door sedans.
There’s a term for this. It’s called bait and switch. Get the customer into the store and then change the terms.
What happened at Office Depot was not a bait and switch per se, but it still wasn’t good customer relations. Yes, I understand that the company is taking a hit pricing its backpacks at $2.99 and that an additional 60-cent discount hurts even more. But that’s a cost of doing business: Advertise something really cheaply and hope people buy enough other things to make the loss leader worthwhile.
Certainly any company is within its rights to limit coupon use on loss leaders. But if that’s what corporate wants, then corporate needs to be very clear, and it needs to do so on the coupon. I don’t want to rely on the personal interpretation of a cash register. Or a manager with a headache.
J.D.’s note: I’m proud of Donna for standing up for herself. It can seem ludicrous to fight bureaucracy for just a few bucks, but I make a point of doing it, too. (Read “I want my four dollars!” for a real-life example from the early days of Get Rich Slowly. I love that story.) Later today I’ll share another tale of fighting corporate madness. Photos by The Consumerist and mlcastle.


August 7th, 2008 at 5:29 am
Ha! This reminds me so much of The Office episode where Micheal orders 8 pizzas and has a half off coupon. The delivery boy says it only works for up to 2 pizzas, but it doesn’t say that on the coupon! So they proceed to to hold the delivery boy against his will. Funny Stuff.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:30 am
Good for her. Many of these stores have started using vague terms on coupons like “not valid on technology”. I’m not sure what technology really is. The man in line in front of me wanted to use a 20% off coupon on a graphing calculator which the store called technology. I’m not sure I call a TI84 technology (if I can buy it at a drug store is it really technology?).
The man seemed nice so I stepped up to help. I grabbed a cheap calculator off the shelf put it on the counter and asked the other cashier if I could use the 20% off coupon with this he said “yes” I pointed to the TI84 and asked about it he said “no, it’s technology” so I inquired about when a calculator becomes technology. I asked him to show me so I drug him back to the calculator section and kept pointing to calculators asking if they were technology or calculators? He was towing a line of graphing calculators are technology standard are office supplies. I found some really fancy $200 engineering or accounting calculator which I couldn’t make heads or tails of, he said calculator, I read the box which said “technology driven” or something similar on it. Clearly they wanted people to come in to try and get a Graphing calculator for school with a coupon and end up not using it and buying one because they were there. The employee eventually cut me a deal and said he would let me use the coupon with the TI84. I told him I didn’t want it but the guy up front did and he should get to use the coupon. You could tell this employee was a bit upset that I stepped in to win this battle for another customer. They gave him the 20% off and scowled at me. I won.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:36 am
I stopped going to a particular grocery store because they refused to honor coupons I had printed on my computer, even though their corporate policy didn’t ban them. So the grocery store saved themselves a few dollars that day, but lost thousands over the long term. While I don’t think the customer is always right (sometimes they’re trying to get away with something they shouldn’t), in your case Office Depot wasted lots of time over $3 and potentially lost a long term customer. That’s a terrible corporate policy if they want people to actually come back to their store.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:47 am
I love seeing others fight for every penny.
I find that I either am careful with my money or I am not. Being careful with large amounts but not paying attention to pennies and dollars just isn’t possible for me.
I have spent a significant portion of my adult life living in countries outside the United States and have been fortunate enough to be exempt from foreign taxes. In every country I lived in sales clerks regularly told me that they did not know how to ring up a sale without tax. Most of them never understood why I was willing to wait around for a manager to ring up the sale just to save a few cents (or yuan, or dollars, or whatever).
RDS
http://financialvalues.blogspot.com/
August 7th, 2008 at 5:48 am
This is a very good example of why small things matter. Good job!!
August 7th, 2008 at 5:48 am
This has everything to do with holding a business accountable to keeping their word. You were right to keep your ground and not give in!
August 7th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Great story! I agree, it’s difficult to justify 10 minutes for a $3 savings, but your supporting argument changed my mind.
The thing is, these large companies seldom err on the side of the consumer. The consumer is expected to read the fine print, so the corporations should be held to the same standard. $3, in this case, is the difference of a disadvantaged kid having a backpack. $3 in the corporation’s hands is not even a drop in the bucket.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:56 am
No thanks. This is a “battle” I will always skip. I can assure you that Office Depot is not trying to pull a fast one, because the last thing they need is a bunch of clogged up register lines. And remember that store-level employees WANT this stuff to work. The last thing they need is a difficult transaction like this. They want your coupon to work because it makes their lives easier. Of course anyone willing to make a scene will almost always get their way because the store manager cannot afford to make other customers angry because of their wait. And a good mananger knows that corporate will always say to give the customer what they wanted if the complaint reaches that stage.
So if you take this tact you didn’t “win” because store management has no choice. You didn’t pull one over anyone. My personal preference is to make enough money that $3 is not a concern. Thanks.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:59 am
The idea that the manager even attempted to thwart the use of the coupon is outrageous. These big box stores stand to lose a lot of credibility in a hurry with today’s blogosphere.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:04 am
“My personal preference is to make enough money that $3 is not a concern. Thanks.”
Why do posts like this always get people like Kevin commenting on them?
August 7th, 2008 at 6:04 am
I am glad she stood up for herself and using the coupon. Stores need to be more clear on their policies. I have found that many cashiers are very confused over how coupons work and stores need to do better about training them. I had a similar experience at Target over cheese coupons. It was a nightmare, but I stood my ground and they honored the coupons. Unfortunately most people give up immediately and of course that is what the stores are hoping we do.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:06 am
I agree with Kevin #5 The world isn’t out to get all of us and screw us all out of our three dollars. No one who managed to get a coupon to work when the store claimed it wouldn’t isn’t changing lives. Websites like the Consumerist have bred an Us vs. Them attitude that is useful when a company is legitimately pulling a fast one (lowering product sizes, keeping prices) but has unfortunately led to the symptom of entitlement among millions of consumers everywhere. I would hesitate to argue that the customer is not always right. Besides, what a waste of time. I hope there weren’t 20 people behind you. And I hope you’re fighting just as hard for bigger changes, perhaps lobbying with your state representatives for stricter rules on commerce if you are really so concerned about the legal language on a coupon.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:07 am
The clerk was right about what one time use means though, or at least that has always been my understanding of the term. They don’t need it for the next day because they take it away when you use it.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:10 am
I’ve had this sort of thing happen to me on multiple occasions. I’ve also had the weird experience of a cashier ringing something else wrong, then they whine about fixing it.
Here’s the run-down:
I was buying kale, which is by the bunch. The cashier accidentally rung it up twice (I heard 2 beeps), and then they quickly shoved it in a bag. I said “excuse me, but I believe you just rung that up twice”. The guy said “that’s because there is 2 bunches”. I asked him to check the bag, he would see it was only one bunch (a large bunch, but a bunch nonetheless). He rolled his eyes, pulled it out, saw it was one bunch, let out this annoyed sigh, then shoved it back in the bag. After he deleted the 2nd entry on the receipt, he actually had the nerve to say, “Happy?!”
Yup, I’m happy, but you won’t be when the manager hears what just happened…
August 7th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Good post. Reminds me of the Consumerist.
PS-I know it’s merely for illustration, but the picture you posted is one of Target. You should use one of an Office Depot or something more generic.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:14 am
This is a great illustration of how much customer service has gone down hill in the last fifteen years or so. I worked the cashiers at Wal-Mart in the early ’90s, and our general store policy was that if a customer haggled over a couple of bucks, cheerfully let them have their way, keep them happy and coming back, and keep the line moving. That sort of thinking just doesn’t exist anymore, at least not in large chain retail.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Hurrah!
I did this for years at the grocery store. They were notorious for overcharging, or not recognizing sale prices. Not overtly I’m sure. They were probably just sloppy about updating their scanner-registers. It became a game for me, and an incentive to get my kids to behave well at the store. (We got double the item price refunded, and the kids could keep it.)
My hard work did pay off, over time I caught errors less often.
I did recently discover that to get double the difference I have to pay the bill, then go to customer service. If I catch the error on my handheld scanner before checking out I have to wait at the CS desk just as long but no refund.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:23 am
Keep in mind the cashier is probably the lowest paid employee in the store… They wouldn’t be there if they didn’t NEED the job. The cashier is not out to screw you. They are just trying to get thru the day and keep thier job. Instead of tying up the cashier and manager (as well as other customers in line) send a letter to corporate. Outline the problem, be specific, and ask for a remedy.. You will probably get a coupon or gift card for more than the amount in question and you have let corporate know that we comsumers see this as a problem..
SAVE ON!!!
August 7th, 2008 at 6:24 am
The manager should have just overrided the sale right away instead of arguing with you. Sheesh.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:24 am
@Ellie - I agree that you received some very rude service. But the mistake was corrected. When I find myself in your position I try to bear in mind that cashiers and store clerks are human beings too. Maybe the cashier was sick that day. Maybe there was a fight with the spouse. Maybe his/her kids are having problems in school. The point is, not everything requires a talk with the manager. If they insisted on over-charging you, then yes, that requires a visit with the manager. Otherwise, sometimes the charitable thing to do is turn the other cheek and let it go. I’m 37 and I’ve never filed a complaint with a manager. It is almost never necessary.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:28 am
This story really turned my stomach, perhaps because my mother has been in retail management for years.
Corporate really DOES control these decisions most of the time, and this kind of behavior on the manager’s part often results in disciplinary actions. While you saved a few bucks, you may have cost that woman her job for not adhering to corporate policy. Store managers at big box companies absolutely DO NOT have the power to make these kinds of decisions. While you might think you’re fighting “the man” or at least “Office Depot”, “Nancy” is really the only one you’re fighting.
Are these stores sloppy in their language? Sure. But I’ll bet that “Nancy” didn’t write that coupon, doesn’t work at Office Depot for the sheer satisfaction, and won’t appreciate the hassle of explaining this situation to her DM.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:28 am
When I’m confronted by someone telling me that the store or company intended something other than what the coupon says, I simply point out that they’re not bound by what they intended to say, they’re bound by what they said.
It’s also worth noting that there will be times when the store manager simply won’t back down. If you leave the store unsatisfied, definitely file a complaint with corporate on the store’s web site. There are plenty of sources of advice on how to write an effective complaint letter, but the basics are that you should be polite, be factual, be reasonable, and clearly state what you are looking for as compensation for the problem.
If you leave the store without satisfaction (provided you’re not being unreasonable), it can be attributed to the ignorance or lack of customer focus of the store’s personnel. This is not a good thing, but it isn’t terribly unusual. Most of these people are there to get their eight bucks an hour and go home.
If you don’t get satisfaction from corporate, it means that a very highly paid person is making a decision to reduce the company’s revenue by alienating a customer. This is the kind of decision that tends to weed people out before they reach such a level in a large retail organization, and as such is very unusual.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:30 am
I’ve actually had the OPPOSITE occur to me. I was purchasing some clothing and had a $10 off coupon. I hadn’t realized it was expired, but the cashier gave me the discount anyway.
About a week later I was making some purchases at Canadian Tire (big box store), and I knew my coupon expired the day before, but I thought I’d try it. The cashier said it was expired, but then asked if I had a few minutes. I said I did. She then went and found a coupon that was printed in the local paper for $10 off, photocopied it, and then allowed me to use it. That’s good customer service!!
August 7th, 2008 at 6:35 am
In regards to what Kevin said, sometimes when you get to a cashier you might be the 100th, 200th or even 500th person they have dealt with that day you don’t know how rude those people before you have been, and sometimes it just adds up. It’s unfortunate and it doesn’t excuse rudeness, it is another thing to keep in mind though.
Also anyone who has never worked retail might be shocked at how many people treat cashiers as subhuman.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:37 am
I agree that standing up for yourself was the right thing to do as you were correct. If the coupon did not say that it did not apply to sales items, then you should have been able to use it regardless of the fact that the register did not read it. Nevertheless, I diagree with your examples that you used. It is in no way the same as going to a store selling winter coats and then they tell you it does not apply to Red Coats only. Office Depot was making the argument that it did not apply to Sale Items because the item you were buying was already on sale, and to discount it more would be rediculous. Yes, they made the mistake so you were able to take advantage of that mistake, but in no way was is it the same as your example. Additionally, if a bunch of cars are on sale, and you can get 20% off, it would be a mistake on the part of the dealer to not mention that it does not apply to 4 door sedans. The example given by another person about the different types of calculators would fit your metaphore more accurately as you cannot say certain calculators are technology and others are not. This mishap with the coupon not saying it does not apply to items on sale was simply a mistake, not a bait and switch. Its OK to give a corporation the benefit of the doubt. Yes, the customer service was terrible and the manager did a terrible job, but Office Depot “the corporation” was not out to get you.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:39 am
At 10 minutes into the conversation, you’ve tied up the manager + cashier for 20 billable minutes of wages. That alone, one would think, should surpass the $3 “loss” the company is trying to save.
I’ve done this back in the day with cold-calling telemarketers and a few times in person at stores, similar to this instance. Point out that the clock is ticking and while they are arguing with you, it costs the company money each minute they sit there and argue a petty fact with you. This usually really irritates them =)
August 7th, 2008 at 6:41 am
Recently I went to best buy with two coupons, one which was 12% with their rewards card and one which was 10% regardless. I bought two items, one more expensive than the other, but both were valid for either coupon.
Obviously I wanted the higher priced item to get the 12% off, so I specifically asked the cashier if it would work that way, because I’d buy the items one at a time if I needed. I was reassured, but it didn’t go through that way at all.
The lady at the customer service practically argued with me that there was nothing that could be done “the computer just applies the coupons randomly” (yeah right), and it took some time to get across the idea that I would have bought them one at a time if I had known. “There’s nothing I can do”. I suggested return them both and buy them again one at a time, which she eventually did.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:42 am
In 1957, a woman bought a pair of jeans on sale for $8. When she found out the zipper was broken, she came back and asked for a refund or a replacement. The store refused. Then she stopped payment of the check that she had used to pay for the jeans, had the zipper repaired herself for $2, and offered to pay the store the difference of $6. The store refused her offer, demanded full payment of the original price of the jeans which was $13.98, and, when she refused, filed a criminal complaint for fraud against her — admittedly to make an example of her so other customers don’t stop payment on their checks.
She filed a lawsuit against the management of the store for malicious prosecution because she had not intended to defraud the store and they knew that. The trial court threw out her case immediately. She appealed it to a federal court — literally making a federal case out of an initial argument over $2! She won!! (She didn’t exactly win the $2.8 million in damages she was seeking — just the right to pursue her case as a legitimate case in trial court and so forth. So she probably settled with the management out of court for a tidy sum.)
The moral is sometimes it does pay to fight over a mere $2!
Here’s a link to the actual case if anyone is interested: http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/591/591.F2d.242.78-1637.html
August 7th, 2008 at 6:45 am
I totally agree that it’s worth saving the money, and we should all demand accountability but please please please take it easy on the young ones. I spent many years as a cashier, and at 16 years old working part time having a customer “prove a point” regarding something I had yet to fully understand was a really awful experience. Ask for a manager, remain calm, some of these kids are still learning and only repeating what they’ve been taught.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:49 am
I work part-time at a moderate department store. Just a few days ago, a customer flew into a rage because the items she wanted to purchase were CLEARLY excluded on the coupons she had. She had such a fit, the next customer actually took several steps back. She ranted and raved about how “they give you this coupon just to get you in the store and then you can’t use it”. Yes, ma’am, every merchant uses coupons to get you into their store. They can be used, if you follow the rules. It is no different than driving down the right side of the road - that is a “rule” - you would have a bigger fit if someone broke that rule. My employer excludes certain items on ALL coupons - it is not their choice - it is in the selling agreement with the manufacturer.
In the situation with the calculator - the ad people need to be more careful and more specific. They seemed to be sloppy and assumed that the average customer knows what they know. BIG MISTAKE!
My employer expects us to follow the ’spirit’ of their customer service motto - not the ‘letter’ - however, we cannot give away the store just because a 40 year old cannot read and wants to throw a tantrum. If I gave everyone what this woman wanted, I would not have a job.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:57 am
I think part of the problem is that people tend to have bad reactions to coupons. I’m not sure why.
I was once using several coupons at a Walgreens to buy some makeup. The store had the makeup on sale (buy one, get one free), and I had some manufacturer’s coupons for the brand. Something like $2 off each item. The coupons were limited 1 per item, not one per customer or transaction. So I brought several coupons.
As I went to check out, the store manager told me repeatedly that I was committing “coupon fraud”. He said it wasn’t right for me to use the $2 off when I was getting one item for free. Basically, his argument was you can’t take $2 off of free (not true: it’s called -$2, or an overage). I told him he could either ring up the purchase, or refuse me service, but that I wasn’t committing fraud since there wasn’t anything on the coupon dictating “not applicable with other offers” or something similar. Fortunately he decided to ring up the purchase, but repeatedly called me a thief.
Of course, that experience has now left such a bad taste in my mouth that I doubt I’ll ever go back to Walgreens (this happened 6 months ago). I saved money, but I was mortified.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:01 am
This is such a poor example of bait and switch…
And I agree with Kevin: it’s $3 - let it go girl…
August 7th, 2008 at 7:03 am
It kept being said that it was only $3. No, it was only 60 cents. And your battle is with corporate not the kid who has nothing to go on other than what the register says. I as the cashier will give 60cents to people like you just to make you go away and make everybody elses life a little bit smoother, i.e. all those people in line behind you. karma will take that 60 cents from your grubby little hands soon enough anyways.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:19 am
I’ve worked retail on and off for about 10 years, and yeah, Office Depot should have honored the coupon without question since it didn’t say anything about not being valid with sale items. I’m uneasy about the sort of things that people do with coupons, like Autumn #18 was describing, but mostly from the cashier’s point of view. Depending on the retailer, it’s entirely possible that a cashier could get into significant trouble doing some of those things.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:23 am
Congratulations. You wasted your own 10 minutes, the 10 minutes of the register operator, the 10 minutes of the manager, and the 10 minutes of each person behind you in line…for $3. Victory! Don’t get me wrong, I agree that they shouldn’t have such undisclosed rules regarding their coupons, but three dollars? Seriously? You were willing to create a huge amount of stress (I’ve worked retail; dealing with customers like you is hugely stressful, even when they’re in the right) and waste 10 minutes of your time for three dollars?
“Oh, but it wasn’t just about $3! I won a battle against big bad mean old corporate America!”
Or, what’s more likely, is that big bad mean old corporate Office Depot never heard of and will never give a single damn about this incident, and you just wasted a bunch of people’s time and created a situation in which several people daydream of *harming* you, all for $3. I wouldn’t really call that a win.
I would have inquired as to why the coupon didn’t work the way it should have worked and then I would have dropped it, until I got home. At that point I would have written an e-mail or letter to Office Depot, informing them that their intentions for the coupon and what was actually printed on it were misaligned. They’re the ones that printed the coupon, they’re the ones that come up with secret rules such as “no coupons on sale items,” and they’re the ones that put such rules into the registers, so they should be the ones to get an earful.
I suggest that everyone here go read http://notalwaysright.com/ for a bit. I can assure you that those kinds of stories are not exaggerated. They happened to me just about everyday I worked retail. Now, the next time you walk up to a register and the employee seems a bit on edge, defensive, or maybe just a little upset with the world, maybe you can understand why.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:26 am
Meanwhile, I’m the guy in line stuck behind you.
I just popped in to buy some pens.
It ended up taking over 20 minutes because of you.
I’m self-employed and bill my time at $100 an hour.
I’m glad you saved $3. You just cost me $30.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:27 am
I definitely see Donna’s point of view and would want the 20% discount for myself as well. But I can also see Office Depot printing “not valid with sale items” on their coupons in the future as a result of this.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:33 am
It concerns me that certain people can treat money so indifferently. When I was a poor college student, $3 was really the difference between me suffering from hunger symptoms for a day or having a decent day at school. $3 is a big deal for so many people, it’s water, it’s food, it’s transportation and it kills me that $3 can be so insignificant.
I’m no longer poor, but i know first hand what it’s like to be in that situation, where you’re actually counting your savings in dimes and happy to have “gourmet” ramen in your roach infested bachelor. I respect every single penny I come across. If I drop one on the street, I go back and pick it up.
So for those who fight for their $3, then go for it. I applaud you and I’d try to do the same.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:38 am
While I understand the sentiment of the “move on, it’s only $3″ crowd, I completely disagree with them. I strongly believe that it’s important for consumers to stand up for their rights in cases like this. And it’s perfectly possible to do it, as Donna did, while being polite and not taking it out on the employees.
On the other hand, I do agree with many commenters that taking this too far can breed an Us vs. Them attitude that’s counter-productive. Be polite. Fight only for what is fair.
Melissa A. (#19) is right: the correct response from the manager — both from a customer service and a profitability standpoint — was to just give Donna the three dollars from the start and move on.
Beth (#30) points out a type of customer I hate: the one who thinks she is always right, even when she’s clearly wrong. These people make my blood boil because they waste everybody’s time. But Donna wasn’t one of those. Donna was right, and I’m happy she fought her little fight.
Finally, Uncle Midriff (#35) has a good point that sometimes it’s better to take the fight to where it really matters: in this case with “corporate”. The real problem there, though, is that it can be nigh impossible to fight the bureaucracy. I’ve tried it. It’s a nightmare.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:50 am
I cannot count the number of times I have had to FIGHT for a few cents, but I know it makes a difference in my pocket each & every time I insist that the company stick to their word. We are meant to stick to ours, when we use our debit card to pay them or write a check assuming we have enough money in the account to cover it. When we don’t hold up our end of the bargain we get slapped with fees & nasty phone calls & letters because we have to stick to our word. It’s only fair they do the same. So often, sales associates don’t seem to realize how one bad episode with an honest consumer can turn that consumer from the store, not forever perhaps, but for a while. I always appreciate someone going the extra mile to see it from a CONSUMER’S point of view & NOT CORPORATE’S POINT OF VIEW!
August 7th, 2008 at 7:52 am
The problem for me is corporations. There is such a disconnect with people because corporations are run soley for profit. That is why I think people see this a such a triumph.
A separate issue is paying low wages for these jobs, no job security, etc. Corporate thinking eliminates the person and focuses on the costs.
Don’t shop at a corporate store. Patronize those few shops left where you can talk to the actual owner, or their manager, in the store.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:53 am
#36 Matt: This is when you need to be a more mindful consumer & ask someone to open a new register so that you can go on your merry way while others are trying to make sure the “Big Guy” sticks to his word. Obviously, you don’t know the value of $3.00 to those of us who don’t make $100.00 an hour. And why are you billing someone while you’re buying pens?
August 7th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Retailers send out fliers and catalogs with misprints all the time. Let’s put them all out of business by holding them to their error and make them sell me a $300 item for $49. Yeah!
Sometimes you should consider what it’s like when the shoe is on the other foot.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Rock on Donna Freedman! It’s nice to know that there are other people who care about a few dollars.
If I didn’t look over my utility bills and credit card statements, and then take a couple hours a month making phone calls to fix errors - I would be out $50 to $100 per month.
Every little bit adds up.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:04 am
I have regularly had to fight with my local grocery store and (chain) drug store for not having their sale prices in the scanners.
For example, “Kraft Pudding (various flavors)” will be on sale, and the sign is in the are of all the puddings — but when I check out, the butterscotch flavor doesn’t ring up with the rest of them on sale.
Also, the drug store recently changed its “buy one get one” policy from the (standard) that you can buy one at half price to “you have to pay full price for the first one and then zero for the next” and so on. This was never marked or noted anywhere, and I’ve never seen any other store ever do that. There are, however, signs for it now with “BOGO” items, a few weeks later.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:11 am
Reminds me of my fight with McDonalds’ whose $1 large drinks only if you don’t order it with a value meal then its $1.49!!
August 7th, 2008 at 8:13 am
I had similar incident recently when a fast food coupon I had didn’t ring through correctly. The entire meal should have been for $3.00, but it rang up at $3.58. Yes, I argued over the 58¢. The young man at the register wasn’t able to override the coupon, so I asked for the manager. She looked at the coupon and decided that yes, indeed, the register was scanning it incorrectly. She gave me my 58¢.
Was it worth it? Yes, I think so. The small amount, in and of itself, wouldn’t make or break me, but it would determine whether or not I returned to that place of business.
Also, instead of looking at it as “just 58¢”, I look at it as a percentage. I would have ended up paying nearly 20% more for the meal if I hadn’t argued my case. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I think a 20% upcharge is pretty hefty. If I’d been buying a $100 item, I certainly would have argued it if they’d tried to charge me $120.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:16 am
You know, I would probably PAY $3 not to have to fight with people for half an hour to get my way over something so small. And I don’t have $3 to spare.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:22 am
The consumer was getting a great deal on backpacks, and was going beyond greedy to expect more. Just because the legalese wasn’t printed on the coupon doesn’t mean that the consumer was right to expect to get the discount. People like this consumer are make this such a litigious society. And this WAS NOT Bait and Switch, and to even use that phrase in this example totally overplays the consumer’s hand in this.
However, the manager should have immediately applied the 20% discount. There are some consumers who you can make happy only by making them feel as though they got away with something.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:22 am
“Meanwhile, I’m the guy in line stuck behind you. I just popped in to buy some pens.
It ended up taking over 20 minutes because of you. I’m self-employed and bill my time at $100 an hour. I’m glad you saved $3. You just cost me $30.”
If you are performing a legitimate opportunity cost analysis to shopping for pens, and you are actually turning down available work at a rate of $100/hr, then you are a fool for going to Office Depot in the first place. A fool. You should have ordered your pens from Amazon in the first place, in less than 5 minutes, and stayed in the office to keep billing hours. More likely those extra hours weren’t actually available, so in this case, your “my time is worth X!” argument is hogwash.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:29 am
My response whenever I find myself in a situation with someone (like the manager in the original post) when they say
“But it’s only three dollars”
you say
“If it’s only three dollars then it shouldn’t be a big deal to give me the discount”
takes all the air out of their argument.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:30 am
People forget sometimes that companies are just the aggregate of the people that work for them. It was somebody’s job to make that coupon. Did they do it perfectly? No.
Does the author do her job perfectly? More to the point, if she titles a blog post “I’ll give you 5 bucks…” with the intent of continuing it into the post “…if you can find me xxx,” do I have the right to say “You need to give me five dollars! You said so in your post!” She didn’t include a disclaimer that the title of the post wasn’t a promise!
There’s a common understanding about things. You don’t use coupons on sale items because THEY’RE ON SALE. The coupon is built in. The company, in fact, is saving you the time of clipping the coupon.
What this lady accomplished was ruining the day of the cashier, the manager, and the 9 people who probably ended up behind her in line because she was taking 10 minutes to buy five backpacks.
As the person above me said, I would have offered to pay the lady $3 just so she could leave and I could buy my things. Why? Because I value my time at above $18 an hour. ($3 for 10 minutes of waiting). What this really shows is that this lady doesn’t have anything better to do than finagle over $3.
If you’re forcing the jaws of common understandings open to reach down the gullet and get $3, you’re just being obstinate.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:43 am
“There’s a common understanding about things. You don’t use coupons on sale items because THEY’RE ON SALE. The coupon is built in.”
I don’t agree with this at all. A sale is a sale and a coupon is a coupon. They aren’t mutually exclusive, unless it is clearly stated on the coupon or the advertising literature. Many shoppers “piggyback” their coupons onto sale items on a daily basis in a variety of stores.
I disagree that there is “common understanding” that this isn’t (or in your opinion, shouldn’t be) done.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Some of this makes me laugh.
This is a free country. At will.
You go into the store. You expect a discount because you have a coupon. They say no to that coupon. At that point in time, make a freaking decision. Either buy or don’t buy.
If you don’t agree, don’t sit there and whine, bitch, cry, argue, negotiate or whatever you want to call it. LEAVE. TALK WITH YOUR MONEY, not your mouth.
Why. Because it is not just your time your are spending. It is the cashier, the managers, and the other people in the store in line behind you and next to you.
Negotiating for 20 minutes over $3 isn’t the point. Everyone with a life knows that is a waste of time, there are countless other things you could have done with that time.
Would you spend 3 hours to save 10 cents to prove a point? Then you just proved mine.
That point is make your life a bit simpler, and you won’t have to care about coupons and cashiers.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Donna is certainly a more patient person than I am. I don’t think I would use so much effort to save such a small amount of money. But I think her point is valid. Stores really should honor their coupons and not change the terms once the consumer tries to redeem.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:49 am
I’m confused why ONE coupon discount would be applied to ALL items in one transaction - unless the coupon says 20% off your TOTAL order. If it wasn’t stated I have never seen a business take one coupon and reuse it a bunch of times. I would have needed a coupon on each individual item to make it legit. I think it is unfair of the customer to fight them on this.
I read about people getting a credit back on “free” items once the coupon is used. Again, I dont think any business has to do this and I have never seen it is real life. I also wouldnt fight them for it. If you didnt put money into the item how can you expect to get money back? If you won a free car in a contest would you expect back a “$1000 money back” incentive promo the lot was running for paying customers? No.
As far as fighting back on overcharges - I do it all the time due to principle - not dollar amount. WIth my point above I think it was wrong to expect 20% on every item, but I would maybe have asked politely for the coupon to be accepted on the one I’m entitled to because it didnt say sale items were excluded. I also dont think personnel in retail necessarily even know the right answers (per corporate) and all its little policies and should grant it at their own discretion.
I wish I could remember more details of a case - but in the early 90s or so Safeway got slammed because they overcharged every customer like a dime and made huge profits for such ‘illegal’ activity. It just burns me either way, so I fight it. At the grocer though, I let the cashier finish because they rarely will comply with fixing an overcharge. I just take my receipt to the customer desk and get a refund - since I get the item for free if I catch a mistake.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:05 am
As someone who has worked in many hourly customer-service jobs (including retail), this type of situation would not bother me one bit. But then I’d also agree with giving the customer the discount, and I would be working with the customer instead of against. I think they call that “consultative sales”.
Elevating the issue to the manager, the employee is free to help the other customers in line and return to the backpack person a few minutes later.
Yes, three dollars is hardly worth bickering over, but just because I’m fortunate enough to have $3 in expendable income doesn’t mean that the entire population is in the same situation.
It seems customer service is fast approaching obsolescence. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been a customer interacting with an employee, thanked them, and been replied to with “yup” instead of a “thanks for your business” or something similar.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:06 am
I would love to see the correlation between people who regularly use coupons and people who will fight for any amount of time over any amount of money, even in cases when the time they spend is considerably more valuable than the money.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:12 am
This is the kind of situation that leads to companies canceling coupons for everybody.
And this is also precisely why I have kept the job I have instead of taking one where waiting on customers was necessary. I do not agree that the customer is always right, and this kind of stuff drives me up the wall.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Apparently you place zero value on your time (and that of the people stuck in line behind you). Had I been stuck waiting 10 minutes for you to save such a tiny amount of money, I’d have happily paid you the $3 just to get out of my way!
August 7th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I get this frequently in shops where I live. Often it ends up in me blocking a line, the manager trying all sorts of “just accept it” tactics (which don’t work), and my wife usually gets annoyed beyond belief. My theory? If you advertise it, you stick with it.
I want to make something clear. IT IS NOT ABOUT $3. The store is doing something illegal (perhaps not intentionally), bottom line it is advertising something it does not intend to honor fully. And that is worth the annoyance it takes to get through to some of these stores.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Is your “principal” worth the time, money and frustration of everyone behind you in line too?
August 7th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Bravo! Keep them in check.
As one who has designed many coupons, we pore over those details and fine print. If we don’t include something as an exception then the consumer has full right to exercise it.
As a consumer I have also drew a line in the sand with my local supermarket that claims they no longer except Internet-printed coupons. But until it is a posted policy I will continue to use them.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:29 am
I once stopped at a large computer store to buy a stack of CD-Rs. I happened to have an ad for a competitor with a sales price for just that. The competitor was out of my way, and this place was on my way home and they had a price-beating guarantee.
I presented the stack and the competitor’s ad to the cashier, who promtly MATCHED the price. I told him that their policy, clearly stated on a sign nearby was to BEAT the price. He told me that this was how they beat the competitor’s price, by matching it. No manager was available, but the head cashier took the same postion and there was a line starting to back up behind me, so I paid and left.
On the way home however, I kept thinking about it and got upset. So I looked up some information on the corporate web site and fired off an email complaining about their misinterpretation of the word BEAT. I explained that I knew it was only 1 cent, but it was the principle that mattered.
A few days later, I got a snail mail from the manager of the local store. He apologised for the mistake, promised that the employees would receive training on the policy, and he included a $20 gift certificate. I thought that was an excellent example of how to respond to a complaint.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Dave said: “If you’re forcing the jaws of common understandings open to reach down the gullet and get $3, you’re just being obstinate.” It’s a slippery slope Dave. Consumers need to fight back to marketing tactics. The coupon entices the buyer into the store in the hopes that in addition to the backpack, she buys other school supplies for her children. Once at the cash desk with her $75+ total, the nonapplicable $3 coupon doesn’t seem like such a big deal so the purchaser says, “it’s okay, forget it”. Psychology and marketing rolled into one $3 coupon. Good for the writer making the company make good on its coupon promise. It should have done so sooner.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:45 am
I think that in some instances we should stand up for ourselves on principle as you did (and I really like that a disadvantaged kid will get a backpack). Yet in other instances we should refuse to get lost in the weeds. Three dollars is a weed in the big picture.
In the big picture, our culture consumes way too much, both from the perspective of personal finance and our aggregate debt-load, and from the perspective of the earth’s resources, which we’re depleting at a dizzying rate. For my related article on reducing energy use while maintaining a high quality of life click here.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I agree fully. I once refused to pay an extra 10 cents at Chipotle once. The cost of chips said $1.25 on the menu, but rang up at $1.35. “I’m sorry, but we haven’t changed the menu”, they said. It was not about the money, but about the principle of them honoring their advertised price.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:52 am
My wife works at a company where a guy with NO case is suing over discrimination. The guy’s lawyer has come to his senses, and wants to settle for $8000. Now, the company could easily just pay $8000, and probably be better off than paying its own lawyer fees, but if the company does that, then word will get around, and suddenly many more discrimination lawsuits will appear.
Sometimes, it is better to fight out of principle, even if it is not worth the time and money. This will set precedent for acceptable behavior.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:04 am
The difference, of course, being court cases can set actual precedence. Fighting with cashier #29427 at Giant Mega Corp accomplishes no such thing. It does not affect the company in any way, and it certainly does not change company policy.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:33 am
This is a great idea, but immediately ineffective. Having worked at similarly-run retail establishments, what I know is that the manager will give the coupon just to avoid the argument, and then there it will stay.
Managers and employees have absolutely no say over company policy. As a cashier-level employee, I can’t even override coupons most of the time. The computer simply won’t let me. My job is to try to get you to shut up and let me do it the way I was instructed, even if I agree with you, or to call my manager and let him deal with you.
If my boss, the general manager of the store, had said to his boss, “Five people came in this week pissed because the coupon didn’t explicate our store policy,” his boss would have laughed. There’s nothing they can do.
The immediate result of this is that you feel self-righteous, and everyone around you feels annoyed at you for something they have no control over.
If you are this irritated over a coupon, you should deal with it in the appropriate manner. Write to someone who does have control over these things. If that doesn’t work, escalate it. There are several appropriate ways of dealing with this that do not involve having a hissy fit in the store. Yes, they are more time consuming. They are more effective, however.
You may have won the scuffle, but it has no effect on the war.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:43 am
You go Donna! Stores and corporations rely on the apathy of customers. They think that no one will bother to complain over just $3. But all those $3 add up to huge profits. Good for you for standing up to the big guys!
August 7th, 2008 at 10:52 am
@Dave - Did you really email a complaint over 1 cent? Really?
August 7th, 2008 at 11:02 am
When I worked retail I would usually be pretty generous with our coupons. Of course I worked at what was more of a local company and keeping our customers was more important. Sure people could have made fake coupons and brought them in, but I doubt they would put that much effort into screwing us out of $3. Our managers had some common sense too, which was nice.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:13 am
@Kevin - Really, I did. It wasn’t so much over the penny, it was because they had a big sign that said they would BEAT any advertised price, but instead they just offered a price match. If they had simply said “we will MATCH any competitor’s price”, I would have accepted it and never looked back. It was the fact that they had the nerve to argue that a match was the same thing as beating the price - this is what got my back up. I truly never expected any sort of response. I just sent them a polite email that said I didn’t understand their policy because they defined “BEAT” differently than I did. Hey, it cost me all of 2 minutes to look up an address and fire off the email, and I sure felt better after I hit send, so it was totally worth it to me, even before I got their response.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:17 am
There are a lot of things wrong with this exchange, and Kevin et al. are right that $3 really isn’t worth it. But I zeroed in on this part:
Nancy said, “I’ll give you the coupon on one of them.” I replied that nowhere on the coupon does it say that it was good for just one item.
“It says ‘one-time use’, so I’ll let you have it for just the one.” I suggested that “one-time use” might actually mean that I couldn’t use the coupon again the next day.
The common understanding is that a coupon is that you can use one coupon for one item unless the coupon specifically says otherwise. Sorry, Donna, you’re clearly trying to game the system.
(Also, #1 BK, you’ll remember that Michael Scott ended up paying full price for all of his pizzas.)
August 7th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Have worked in retail and I think there are both sides to the story:
1) Don’t be rude to the cashier. They don’t care if you get your $3 either way. If you make sure that you are not implying that it’s somehow their fault and you ARE HELPING THEM WITH A SITUATION THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO FACE AGAIN, they usually bend over backwards to help you out. (Believe me, you get one bad coupon situation and it will come up 10 times a day)
2) It’s the managers job to take care of just this type of situation. To say that they you are wasting their time is just silly. You’re not wasting their time - if they are clocked in that’s what they are there for. If you were asking them to come outside and check your oil which is not their job, then you would be wasting their time.
3) I believe that a lot of managers are to blame for this type of situation. If I go up to a register and there is some confusion on both sides about how the coupon works - 99 times out of a 100 when they call the manager will just let it go without even looking at it. While this seems good, it’s not. That expired coupon they just let go through will tell that lady that if you question anything at that particular store you will get what you want as long as you call a manager. This is a nightmare for the cashier. As long as the rules are clear on the sale/coupon then the manager should have your back, not make you look like a moron to the customer. (I think this is why it is most peoples gut reaction to yell at the cashier)
4) Cashiers and Managers can have a bad day just like anyone else and yeah, they probably hate their job. But there are days that I hate my job and if I was a big pain in the butt to everyone I came in contact with or just said “NO! Asking me to do — isn’t part of my job description!” to a client and I would be in BIG trouble.
It’s your job. I’m sorry if you hate it - but you get paid to be here. As long as I’m not asking you to do something that has nothing to do with being a cashier, then you are being paid to help me.
5) Yes, it’s $3 for one person. But having been a cashier several times before if you send out a big weekly flyer with something like a 20% off coupon off on something you already have on sale, this fight is going to come up AT LEAST 10 times a day. Bare minimum. So that’s what? $30 a day that the company didn’t discount the customer? and $210 a week that the sale runs? with average at least 10 stores in a metro area? Wow, that three bucks just from you became a profit of $2100 to your area Office Max in just one week. And that was only on the coupon you knew about….
August 7th, 2008 at 11:21 am
But you spent more than $3 of your time.
I get the principle argument, but can you actually say this was worth your time?
August 7th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Plenty of people already said this but I wanted to say it again:
Good for her! She’s not wasting her time negotiating this, it was the manager wasting her time. I can’t believe that the manager didn’t just over ride the transaction and give it to her… They can do that, instead they had some power trip…
August 7th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I would have just paid $30 for a Land’s End backpack that wouldn’t require me to leave the house and would last 2 years instead of 2 months. Whenever stores run things really, really cheap like that I just stay away cause the crowds are a huge time waster.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:28 am
You are absolute right to fight. It doesn’t matter what was intended by Office Depot. It matters the integrity of what they stand behind. Not tolerating lousy customer service is the only way for the small guy to fight back. Otherwise, apathy brings about higher prices because, heck, why would the customer care because “they are not saying anything and they are still buying.”
I would write Office Depot and let them know how many people have read this story. Managers should be trained better to accommodate for these types of situations, especially when they know that they can loose a customer. -Cheaplee
August 7th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Kevin-
The only reason I talked to a manager is because he was rude and was intentionally mishandling my produce (my biggest pet peeve in grocery stores). I understand that people can have bad days but I’m a college student and can’t afford to be overcharged a dollar, and when someone mistreats something that I worked very hard to afford, its unacceptable.
I do also talk to managers when I have a GREAT cashier, BTW. I’ve worked retail for most of my working life, some of it at walmart, and I know how crappy of a job it is. I certainly never was that rude to a customer though. If I was in a bad mood, I was just less chatty, or said what i was required to (”hello how are you, this is your total, have a nice day”). Even after the drunks get mad for you refusing to sell them alcohol, or a customer accusing you of selling your soul because you work at walmart.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Reading this post was pretty upsetting to me. Donna’s smug attitude towards “sticking it to the man” is not commendable - it’s tacky and obnoxious. I’ve always assumed it was a given that you can’t combine discounts. I feel badly for the cashier and the manager - why is Donna proud of spreading negative energy by making someone’s job more difficult? It’s not their fault that corporate made a mistake when printing the coupon. I highly doubt the $3 was worth making the world a more unpleasant place for people in customer service.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Follow up to #18… If you argue with the cashier/manager at the store level, corporate never hears about it. You have wasted everybody’s time. If you truly want CHANGE in corporate America you must write to, or call them. Other wise you are just squabbling over change in your pocket!!!! The pen is mighty!
August 7th, 2008 at 11:50 am
You should be embarrassed by this transaction and instead you’re proclaiming it to the internet. This is only one side of the story -yours- and still you are portrayed badly.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Good job, keep it up!
August 7th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Amen, Sister!
I absolutely agree with Donna’s actions. The stores don’t get to make up the rules as they go along. In my opinion, a coupon published in a paper is a form of a contract with the consumer. Based on this “coupon contract” we invest money (gas) and time (selecting items, waiting in line)in the associated store. And it is more than irritating to be told after we’ve invested our valuable and limited commodities that we will not be receiving our “return on investment.” (I don’t know about the rest of you, but I consider my time a valuable commodity that a company does not have the right to waste because of sloppy administrative processes, buraucracy, or inadequately trained employees.)
Besides, if the fact that coupons don’t apply to sale items is such a standard policy, why isn’t it also standard policy to have this restriction printed on every coupon the store publishes? If it’s not important enough to put the effort into establishing a mechanism to ensure this restriction is clearly and routinely identified, then it must not be that important to the store period.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Hm. Sabina (#82), when reading this (as I have several times), I never get the impression that Donna is smug or trying to “stick it to the man”. To me, she just wants to get the deal she thinks she’s supposed to get.
When I stand up for myself in these sorts of situations, I feel the same way. I’m not trying to stick it to anyone. I’m just trying to get what I paid for, or get what I was promised.
That’s the point here, I think.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Sabina,
“I’ve always assumed it was a given that you can’t combine discounts.”
“It’s not their fault that corporate made a mistake when printing the coupon. I highly doubt the $3 was worth making the world a more unpleasant place for people in customer service.”
As much as I’d like to think that they don’t make this stuff confusing on purpose, they do. Just like how lottery people know that most people don’t check their tickets, or how they hope you throw away the winning candy bar wrapper so they don’t have to give out that “grand prize” - a coupon is the same way. It’s a gift to get the customer to come in and they would LOVE for you not to use it. One unused confusing coupon spread over thousands of customers equals a lot of cash.
(Heck, we have a friend who works for a company that inusures corporate contests like that. They NEVER actually have the prize - they buy an insurance policy so on the small chance that someone can actually prove they won they can hand it out. Our friend told us that every time you get a “Win a $1000 Shopping Spree” for filling out a survey you get from a chain resturant on a recipet to FILL IT OUT! He says that so few people actually fill it out because they think they can’t win the prize (ie. the really big coupon!)that your chances of winning are actually really good!)
You’re right, it’s not their fault that the coupon is wrong. But you are not buying a backpack from THEM. You are buying a backpack from Office Max and they work for Office Max. The manager needs to hold the company responsible for what she should do about it.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I spent 12 years working for the world’s largest retailer and I am very familiar with sales tactics to draw customers. This store forgot the most important point, once you get a customer in the door make sure they leave with a positive experience!
http://middleclassdream.wordpress.com/
August 7th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
+1 on Tom Feldsten’s comment.
I was kind of agreeing with this lady at first, but really she is just being a greedy a**. She’s violating the spirit of the coupon. The company is already losing money on this product. I love Consumerist.com and am all in favor of holding companies accountable, but how many time has she gotten freebies from businesses?
Consider Bed Bath Beyond’s 20% coupons that will be accepted past expiration. Both they and LNT take each others coupons - even expired! I used a 1-day expired Chick-fil-A coupon the other day and no one said anything. THEY could have been sticklers, but weren’t.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Good for her! The dollar amount is not a big deal because it isn’t huge but when they start fighting what is fairly obvious then you need to stick to your guns and its great to see Donna do so. Really if corporate didn’t want something like this to happen then maybe they should have said so up front and if its a mistake than suck it up and deal with the consequences of your actions.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I’d be curious to see what all of these people who say “how awful!” and “it’s only $3!” would say if:
a) $5? $10? $20? Still not worth arguing over?
b) let’s say you saw it happen to three people in a row? Still no big deal? What if they were your friends?
c) if you were a cashier in training and saw this exact situation go on 5 or 6 times. (I am positive it would with a major store putting out a 20% off coupon with a sale already going on). Wouldn’t you question why the store would even have a sale and a coupon out at the same time if they knew they would make your computer reject you at the counter?
What would it take to make you mad enough to say something?
August 7th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
A lot of you are missing the point. Complaining to the low-level grunts in the store serves no purpose, but your own smug satisfaction. If you want to affect change you have to do it at the corporate level.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Of course stores should abide by the published conditions for their coupons, and I’d have argued the point too. But then I would have reminded myself that:
The computer that doesn’t let the cashier over-ride, well that is ‘corporate’s’ way of limiting the cashier’s discretion. That cashier has a lousy job: no real control or ability to make good decisions — all done for him/her by a computer programmed in another state! It’s not the cashier’s fault he/she can’t override, nor is it the cashier’s fault that the store doesn’t keep its word.
Direct your anger at ‘corporate’ as a model for retail!
Nancy, the manager, is the first step, the corporate office the second. Better yet, try shopping local, where you can actually talk to the owner (or a manager or employee who some real discretion). Reward the places with good service with your business. Yes, their products may (probably do) cost more. But you get what you pay for when you visit big box stores where decisions are made in ‘corporate-land’ and then hardwired into computers.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
While many of us (including me) would give up on the $3 before Donna got the situation resolved, I am glad there are people out there who are willing to make that kind of stand.
Knowing that there are people in the world that will go through the effort needed to right the wrong keeps the worst abuses in check. Similarly, people have secured many of our rights by being to navigate the legal system way beyond what many of us would have been willing to do.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
I agree on the ’stand up for yourself’ concept…however, how much is your time worth? Even worst case scenerio this extra time talking to manager, cashier, and finally getting the discount was 15 minutes, I believe my time is worth more than $12 an hour….
August 7th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
“Complaining to the low-level grunts in the store serves no purpose, but your own smug satisfaction. If you want to affect change you have to do it at the corporate level.”
For a lot of people that $3 isn’t nothing. It costs me almost $5 to buy a gallon of milk for my toddler and our grocery bill is very, very tight.
I don’t cut coupons for my “satisfaction”, I do it so maybe those 10 coupons where I save 30 cents each can help keep my budget in check and maybe I can afford to buy a toy or a treat.
Not everyone makes a lot of money! (Particularly not that “low level grunt”)
Besides if you go to the register with a $2.99 backpack and they had the price plastered all over the store and said “Oh, we are actaully charging $5.99 for that.” You would want a resonable response why you were being charged more.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Again, I don’t think we are reading from the same sheet of music. If you want to actually hold businesses accountable to the public for their misleading behavior then you have to go through their corporate office. Complaining to the cashier or manager servers no purpose other than to put money in your pocket.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Touche!
The dollar amount is meaningless. It’s the principle behind this situation that’s important. My guess would be that most consumers would let it go and not press the issue. But for those buyers that do, it only makes good sense from a business standpoint to make their buying experience positive-a reason for them to return again. The customer is always right but it seems that nowadays too many businesses have forgotten this important adage.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
“Complaining to the cashier or manager servers no purpose other than to put money in your pocket.”
Other than putting that money back in my pocket. That’s exactly what the point is.
I could care less about the business practices of Office Max. What I care about is that the store I’m in is trying to take my money and I’m not going to let them.
If the manager doesn’t like all the customers complaining holding up the line, then that manager needs to talk to corporate. They are much more willing to listen to him then to me.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I agree about the principle, but I’m more with Bether:
“…The immediate result of this is that you feel self-righteous, and everyone around you feels annoyed at you for something they have no control over.
If you are this irritated over a coupon, you should deal with it in the appropriate manner. Write to someone who does have control over these things. If that doesn’t work, escalate it. There are several appropriate ways of dealing with this that do not involve having a hissy fit in the store. Yes, they are more time consuming. They are more effective, however.
You may have won the scuffle, but it has no effect on the war.”
August 7th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Part of the problem that hasn’t gotten a lot of attention here is the enforced helplessness of the cashiers. If cashiers make a mistake, they can’t correct it themselves - they have to call a manager over to turn a key. (Message from company to employees: we know you’ll steal from us as soon as our backs are turned.) Even the managers have trouble sometimes figuring out what the magic code to override whatever has been programmed into the computerized registers.
Too often, it’s easier for these front-line employees to make up “reasons” why the coupon/discount/whatever won’t work and try to get the customer to go away quietly. It isn’t evil, just stupidity - on the part of those setting corporate policy and programming those registers.
If you set up systems that make it easier to turn away the customer with a lame excuse than to actually help them buy what they want at the advertised price, and if you pay employees minimal wages and give them minimal training, what you get is a lot of people doing what’s easiest for themselves - not what’s best for the customer (or ultimately the company).
So yes, stay and fight the battle in the store if you want, or write a letter to corporate, or if you have the time, do both. Also, if you find a store that gives its employees latitude to make the customer happy, it may be worth it to stick with ‘em, even if their prices aren’t always the cheapest.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
If this bothers you that much, show it by shopping at a local store next time. Of course, they won’t be selling backpacks for $2.99, but I’m willing to bet they always give the customer the benefit of the doubt.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Wow! I can’t believe Office Depot put up such a fight! When I worked in retail, we would never have fought with a customer like that, we would have given them what they wanted in a situation like this. Hell, the management made sure that the front line employees were empowered to deal with a situation like this, and make the customer happy, without having to call a manager.
Sure, there are times when a person is legitimately trying to scam the company, and employees may have to act as though the customer is NOT right, but something like this is not one of those situations. I’m dumbfounded by the behaviour of the Office Depot employees in this story.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
“There are several appropriate ways of dealing with this that do not involve having a hissy fit in the store.”
I don’t really think she was having a hiss fit in the store (But yes, there are a LOT of people out there who do). Personally, I see a lot of times that the managers are the ones having a hissy fit at the customer.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I think Donna did the right thing on principle. It is important for consumers to speak up and not let companies get away with practices like this.
Even if you ignore the matter of principle, I also think that saving $3 should not be dismissed as a ‘waste of time’. If I read right she spent 10 minutes discussing the issue and saved $3. Thats $3 for 1/6 an hour or $18 after tax dollars or more like ~$25 per hour pretax. Thats pretty good return on time compared to a lot of peoples pay rates. Where we each draw the line about what is worth our time is an individual choice.
If you do complain like this then its best to keep it civil and be polite to the cashier and manager. They are just trying to do their jobs and its not going to improve anything by being rude to them. Sounds to me as if Donna kept it civil.
I think its important to complain at the low level first. If the clerk had the policy wrong then complaining might get a manager to quickly resolve it. If you don’t complain then they won’t fix it. Its also important to follow up and also complain at the high level. Donna should follow the bad experience in the store by writing a letter to corporate. It is in fact the corporate policy that caused the issue in the first place.
Also, by the way, this is not ‘bait and switch’ by definition.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/ad-faqs.shtm
“How does the FTC define “bait and switch” advertising?
It’s illegal to advertise a product when the company has no intention of selling that item, but instead plans to sell a consumer something else, usually at a higher price. For more information, ask the FTC for its Guides Against Bait Advertising.”
Jim
August 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
There’s a lot of comments on here about being in the right and sticking to your guns. However, what really bothers me about this particular case is that it is totally not clear that Donna is in the right.
1) A coupon is for one item. She wanted one coupon applied to 5 items. The language on the coupon made it pretty clear it was for one item. <– This is the main argument why people are having problems with Donna’s post.
2) The backpacks are already on sale. Corporate obviously meant for the 20% off coupon to be used for non-sale items and so they should have marked it as such. I understand that the coupon didn’t specify that, but she’s getting a freaking great deal on a backpack already and guess what? Corporations make mistakes sometimes. Just b/c amazon.com offers a Wii for $1 mistakenly on their website does NOT mean they have to give it to you for $1.
3) Her main reason for sticking to her guns is to fend against the bait and switch. I could totally argue that this is not a bait and switch tactic and just an honest mistake by Office Depot.
J.D.’s case (the one he linked to) is much more clear cut and in that instance I commend him for fighting for his $4. But I think what really irks me about Donna’s situation is not so much the small amount of money involved, but a combination of her murky logic the fact that it’s only $3.
August 7th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
@Rachelle211: “If the manager doesn’t like all the customers complaining holding up the line, then that manager needs to talk to corporate. They are much more willing to listen to him then to me.”
Actually, no. Corporate is MUCH more willing to listen to you than to a front line manager, and you would have MUCH more influence. Clearly, you’ve never worked in retail, nor known anyone who has (at least not at the front-line of a big-box)
They care what YOU think, because you give them money, or not, based on how irritated you are. They don’t give a DARN what the front line manager thinks: The manager is beholden to the company for a job, but “My way or the highway” is the company’s attitude towards branch employees.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
@ CFO (#43),
Does your company allow customers to make a mistake, such as paying their bills late or simply forgetting to pay at all? Or, like most companies, do they charge out wazoo?
Why should companies be given a break on mistakes or oversights? People are paid money to check over these things. Many people look at the ads. I’m sure there’s a stock disclaimer that they could have just printed on the coupon.
It’s not a valid argument to say she was “beating the system” or taking advantage. The company offered a special deal and then the store tried to invalidate it. She chose not to pay the higher price. It’s rather logical to me.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
this happened to me yesterday!
i was ordering a new 4GB SD card for my camera on the circuit city website, to pick up later that day at my local store. there was a standard 4GB card for $25, and an ultra card (faster) with a usb reader for $30! so i chose the more expensive one - it was better, and i could use the usb reader on my laptop.
WELL, i got to the store, and they tried to give me a plain ultra card with no reader. i calmly explained that i chose the more expensive card to get the reader, and asked if they could provide me something comparable. the guy helping me, though very nice, didn’t seem to understand what i was asking. when he finally said he didn’t have any comparable product, nor did he have what i ordered, i told him i’d take the whole thing off my order rather than accept something less than what they sold me.
at that point he offered me $5 off, which i gladly accepted. actually, it worked out pretty good for me - i got a nicer memory card for the lower price!
yes, i took up the cashier’s time, yes, i annoyed the people behind me that were waiting, but at ALL times i was calm and pleasant, and i just wanted what i paid for. $5 is $5 and it can add up very fast! as far as i’m concerned, consumers have a right to argue against FRAUD, which is what it comes down to.
just don’t be a jerk to the cashier - no front line employee deserves to be abused when they’re just trying to do their job.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Hooray.
You did the right thing. The manager should have simply caved and done what the coupon said. Corporate was not careful enough and ended up costin g their own company a lot of money. You on the other hand made money at the rate of about $27 per hour.
($3/[10minutes]*6[10minutes]/hr.)= $18
$18/(1-marginal tax rate)= $27
Good job.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
People use coupons on sale items on a daily basis, though. For example, lots of grocery coupon clippers wait until an item goes on sale at their supermarket and then use the coupon to save more bucks. I never buy cereal without it being on sale PLUS coupon–so I’m spending $2 or less for a box of Cheerios or whatever. This kind of stuff DOES add up in the grocery budget of many families.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
beast without a name said: “Consider Bed Bath Beyond’s 20% coupons that will be accepted past expiration. Both they and LNT take each others coupons - even expired! I used a 1-day expired Chick-fil-A coupon the other day and no one said anything. THEY could have been sticklers, but weren’t.”
BB&B and LNT send out those coupons regularly. They accept expired and the other’s coupons because they markup their prices (by at least, you guessed it, 20%). They’re still making a huge profit on items after the coupon. They make more on the items you buy without the coupon simply because it was was brought you into the store.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Principles…yeah right…hehehe…whining 15 minutes over a $3 thing when you could have spent 15 minutes with your kids instead or could have made a lot more by working instead of acting like an idiot.
If we all would fight over every principle while shopping, then we would need 5 times more time to shop, not to mention all the others who have to wait for us…get real…sigh
August 7th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Just reiterating some great points that are being overlooked:
1) You may put a dollar amount on your time, but that is only applicable when you are working, or could be spending your time working. If it is after work and you aren’t picking up soda-cans that $3 dollars is the only way you are going to be making money in that particular 20 minutes. (Its a well-known economic principle, and I can’t think of its title)
2) You are not wasting the managers time, that is what they are being paid to be there for. They might have other ways to spend their time, but solving problems on the floor is why they get paid more than cashiers.
3) You have no debt to the people behind you in line. It may not be nice to make other people wait to receive your discount, but neither is it nice to call this women names and disparage her story.
4) Yes, cashiers have frustrating jobs some times, but so does everyone else. Being a cashier is not worse than most jobs where you have human interaction, it is part of your job to pretend to be friendly, cashiers just don’t get negatively impacted if they are jerks about it (unlike a waiter or waitress would in the tipping system).
5) Debbie was not being greedy, she was not taking more than she was offered, she saw an advantage and took it. That’s not being greedy, that is being a smart consumer. While if everyone did this, it might be worse for the world in general, (maybe, I guess?) she as a person should not be expected to make any decision that does not directly benefit her. And as I can see in the comments a lot of people are Wal-Mart shoppers, Costco, Winco, Target, and Safeway. You are not making the moral decision to hurt your own pocketbook, so don’t expect it out of anyone else. And if you don’t shop at any of these places, you have other values than your pocketbook, and you can’t expect this site (get Rich slowly) to cater to those interests. People are looking to save money, and using what a corporation has sent to your house to entice you to go to their store should not be considered taboo.
August 7th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I keep commenting because I get more outraged as I read through the comments. I disagree with the people who say “one time use” means the coupon was good for one item only.
To me, that means you can use/present the coupon once, and then surrender it to the store. You can’t go to five different stores and buy out all the items with that coupon.
Does a one time use camera only take one picture? Most coupons or deals that limit the amount of items or product you can buy say “Limit __ per customer”.
I don’t understand the wasting other’s time argument. The cashier and manager were doing what they were paid to do. If you are too important or busy to wait in line hire a personal shopper or order online. If I am running late, I don’t expect others to accommodate me for my mistake.
This is not about taking advantage, sticking it to the man, being miserly, wasting others time, or other nonsense. This is about requiring companies to adhere to their own policies.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Basically, it comes down to this:
How much is not looking like an ass worth to you?
Because when you make a big deal over a coupon misunderstanding, even if you are completely in the right, you’re making several people’s lives a little bit more difficult and a little bit more irritating, and because of that, they will perceive you as an ass.
The error on the part of the store would have to be much more blatant and the cost to me would have to be much more than $3 for me to be willing to look like an ass.
Yes, stores should be more clear regarding their coupons, and yes it’s crappy that you’re being put in a situation where you have to choose between money and not looking like an ass, but that’s just how it is. You have to choose one, you can’t have both.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
If you owed your cell phone company, the electric company, the gas company, or a credit card company $3, they would TAKE YOU TO COLLECTIONS.
in new york the local drugstores are notorious for not changing prices, changing prices, not honoring coupons. i usually don’t fight for the item, i just ask them to void the sale. but i’m not going to pay more because of laziness, sloth, or ineptitude - unless it’s my own
August 7th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
The Manager flopped. If it really was corporate policy, she should have not given the discount and cited corporate policy. If the argument continues, then give the numnber to the DM and have the customer take it up with them.
Take it or leave it. End of argument. If you don’t like it, there is a Staples or Wal-Mart somewhere close by.
Move on!
August 7th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
I wonder if the same folks sneering at this woman for trying to save a few more dollars are the same folks who claim that anyone can make it and those who don’t are just losers and whiners?
Forgive us little folks who need to save a few bucks.
Anyway, my hubby and I have lots of extra backpacks. I’ve given away some, but I think I’ll keep a few extra around for our future children.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
What is a major difference between highly successful people and everyone else? The ability to accurately prioritize things and focus energy accordingly.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Who cares whether you look like an ass or not. It really is the principal of the thing. Especially nowadays with gas being what it is if I make a special trip somewhere just to save a little extra cash, I will make a fuss over a large corporate company trying to weasel its way out of the savings I went there for in the first place. I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a small mom & pop shop only because a mistake in a coupon/price would be a result of them wearing enough hats not including proofreader. A large chain such as office depot has enough layers of people checking and double checking fliers, coupons and ads. If there is a mistake they should be called on it.
August 7th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Wow, I’m impressed that your Office Depot had the $3 backpacks by Friday (I’m assuming it’s the same sale we had here that started on a Sunday and went through Saturday.
I went on Tuesday for that sale, and was told they were all sold out already. I’d tried to buy the $5 backpacks a week or two earlier on a Thursday and when I asked about them, everyone just shook their head and said they went fast. Personally, I’m skeptical they even had the darn backpacks, which I wanted not for my own kids but to donate (filled with school supplies I’ve been buying at loss leader prices) them to kids who can’t afford their school supplies.
On a similar note to your experience, but not nearly as bad, I got seriously dirty looks when I took a receipt into Fred Meyer (local grocery and more store) asking for the sale price of a filebox that I bought on a Friday for $9.60 and they’d gone on sale Sunday (two days later) for $8.99. Was it worth 61 cents for her to do the refund? Well, I wouldn’t have made a special trip to the store for the refund — the gas would have cost more than the refund! — but I needed to pick up a prescription at the pharmacy anyway so I thought it was worth a couple minutes of my time to get the darn 61 cents back. And hey, the cashier shouldn’t care how small the refund is; she gets paid the same anyway.
Anyway good for you for getting your discount! The manager should have saved everyone a headache and just given it to you anyway!
August 7th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
I recently went into Office Depot and was looking at their clearance items. I saw 5 copies of WordPerfect Office for $2.98 each. I took one to the cashier and she said it rang up at $298. I said it is clearly marked Clearance and $2.98. We called up a manager and he said it was $298. I said there are 4 other copies on the rack that are marked $2.98. I went to the rack and got the other 4 copies. I said I could see they might have mistakenly marked one wrong but… five copies ???
The manager said give it to him for $2.98. He took the other programs and put them under the counter.
I should have bought all 5 and put 4 copies on ebay at $200 each.
Captain America
August 7th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
The writer was clearly in the right for standing her position. The coupon was an offer to discount by 20% “all backpacks” up to the stated limit. She accepted this offer by ponying up her funds and coupon for the 5 backpacks. The store was obligated to deliver on the discount. Anybody waiting in line behind this stalled transaction was free to leave if they were in danger of losing their $100 an hour. I don’t think the writer was holding a gun to anyone’s head.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Oh, yes and congratulations to all of you who are so successful and have your priorities in order that you don’t have to worry about saving a few dollars on your purchases. Not everyone lives your exalted lifestyle. The purchaser could easily have been another minimum wage employee trying to get her kids’ school supplies and needing all the discounts she could legitimately get.
August 7th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Good for you. We had a similar experience at JC Penney’s, the last time we went there (about ten years ago). Store coupon for 20% off of something, the coupon said it wasn’t good for sale items. We tried to use it on something that wasn’t a sale item - the computer wouldn’t give us the discount, and neither the salesperson or manager would fix it. We left.
What’s funny is that just about anyone who takes basic management training (let alone a business degree) hears the same thing - when someone fights over something like this, you give it to them. People who have a bad experience tell a number of people about it, and they tell other people, and you quickly lose a lot of money. There’s no way that office depot’s upper management wouldn’t know this, but “Nancy” must not have paid attention in her training class.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
This is a great post!
I’ve had a similar experience at Office Depot where the corporate policy went against common sense.
(I accidentally made somewhere around 350 copies upside down… so I copied 350 blank pages. And the person in charge loaded the pages back into the photocopier and said something like, “I’ll only charge you 3 cents a page for these.” I had to argue for something like 10 minutes that I wasn’t paying for blank paper that had just been put back inside the copy machine.)
I definitely agree it’s important for customers to stand up for themselves.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
While I agree that it’s important to stand up for yourself, I have to wonder how many people were in line behind this woman. Her attitude is “me, me, me” and I doubt that she would ever take into consideration other customers whose time she also wasted, not to mention making them listen to a ridiculous fight. It would have been much better to smile, hand the manager the backpacks, and walk away.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
As a former OD employee, I dealt with customers like this. I completely agree that coupons should be honored especially with the detail they usually put on every single coupon that goes out. “Corporate” does control the computers, but a manager does have the ability to override.
I’m a frugal person myself. I would usually fight these type of things at retailers… but just remember that it is just as frustrating for the employees involved as it is for the consumer.
Personally, I think the manager should have just taken care of the issue to win the customer over instead of complaining of a headache… that’s ridiculous!
August 7th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
When I was 8, I put 10cents into a vending machine, and I was supposed to get a fake plastic ring… and it ate my 10 cents. So, I went to the cash register right behind me, asked for my money back - they wouldn’t give it to me; so I went to “Customer Service” at the back of the store and waited in line and they wouldn’t give me my money - they said to go to the manager’s office across the mall, and so I did - I walked over and they felt SO sorry for me (remember I was 8!) they gave me my 10 cents. I kept it as a souvenir.
I’ve done similar things, where they had different prices on the label and it was scanned through incorrectly. In Quebec, they have a law that allows the consumer to prosecute (through the government) a store that doesn’t have accurate prices on their tags and scanners.. I think this needs to happen more often.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
I love this story. I was living in the San Francisco Bay Area about 10 years ago and I go into a Dry Cleaner. A customer was arguing with an employee of the cleaners on a bill. He insisted that he should only pay $41.50 based on a coupon he was using. She said he had to pay $43.75. Well, the employee finally gave in and he got his dry cleaning for the $41.50 he wanted. The guy promptly leaves the store and gets into a late model Mercedes. At that point I realize, rich people do not spend money. A few dollars here and there can save you hundreds at the end of the year. It is a GOOD habit to have.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
One thing everyone has failed to notice here. It is not about the $3, it is about fraud. Explaining the problem to the local District Attorney (or County Attorney) in your area would have solved the problem. The printed coupon is a “contract” between the customer and the store. The store has to follow the coupon as printed. Just say that a store prints a coupon for half off all tee shirts in stock, you cut it out and take it to the store. You pick up a great looking tee shirt, take it up to pay for it and the clerk says “…that tee shirt is not one of the half off shirts because it has printing on it…”. The clerk refuses to give you half off. Show them the coupon and show them where it says “all tee shirts”. If the clerk still refuses, purchase the shirt at full price, making sure you have the coupon and the receipt showing what you really paid.
Then make an appointment with the local “officer of the court”. What you will find is an attorney who will start a case file.
It happened to me. Two weeks later, the store was locked and sealed by court order. The assets of the store seized. And the owner of the store was in jail. Seems that he had a history of “bait & switch” in 3 states under different store names, dating back 6 years. No I didn’t get my half off (which would have been about $6), instead after he was convicted in court, I sued the “holding company” he owned in small claims court. His wife showed up in court, but the judge was not buying her story. I received the full $5000 allowed by my state. She had to sell personal property to settle the judgment, but at least I know they will never screw the public again. Most of their merchandise was “imported” from Mexico. During the investigation, no record of any kind was found of import records. Seems the ‘importing’ they were doing required sneaking the ‘junk’ into the US, in the middle of the night, across unpatroled parts of the Mexico/US border. No importing fees and higher profits. I won on this one as well as put a stop to the crook. I do think it would have been better for them to have given me my half off. I won because I stood up for my rights as well the rights of others.
And Yes, I am a Disabled Vet. A member of the US Marine Corps. I don’t take crap off of any one.
Semper Fi
1968-1974
August 7th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
This one is for Sean
1. Give people 15 minutes to find out to how to save $3 that day without having to pick a fight…
2. It’s not about wasting the manager’s time, it’s about wasting “management” time. If everyone whines like this lady, then they need a lot more managers, but then don’t come back complaining that you pay a lot more in that same store.
3. I wonder how you would react if you would have complaining people in front of you every day for 15 min, because face it, that’s what would happen if we all would follow the advice “Why I Fought to Save Three Bucks (and Why You Should Too)”.
4. True
5. The whole world knows that you can’t have a coupon for an item that’s on sale, and I’m pretty sure this woman knows this too, but because it’s nowhere mentioned (a human mistake like the mistakes she will make every week) she tries to benefit form it. That’s not being a smart customer, that’s being a jerk who lacks social skills and only sees companies as “evil”.
Mind you, it’s fair of people to fight for certain issues in stores, but fighting over a human error like this only shows lack of social skills.
As for those who support the woman; get real! How would you react if the police decides to follow the law from now on over every issue, no matter how minor…sigh, get real and try to see the bigger picture folks! The store made a mistake, stop acting like a jerk by trying to benefit from it, it’s not like any got physically or mentally damaged for Pete’s sake…
August 7th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Look at Office Depot’s stock chart (ODP) for the last two years ($42.00 dropping to $6.00). This is why capitalism works. This is a great story of voting with your dollars. Imagine the people that attempt to use the coupon, are told it didn’t work and are made to feel like crooks for trying. I’m guessing it’s happened more than once and that next time customers find another place to spend their dollars. I love America.
August 7th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
J. Donner wrote: The whole world knows that you can’t have a coupon for an item that’s on sale.
This is wrong. In fact, the opposite is usually true. Unless expressly prohibited, coupons may be used for sale items. We do it every week when shopping for groceries. But it doesn’t just apply to small things.
True story: I’ve been coveting an expensive Stickley chair at a local furniture store. The normal price is $3000. Right now, it’s on sale for $2500. Just yesterday I was at the store (buying a $12 doorknob, not furniture) and I saw the new price.
“You know,” I told the clerk. “I have a 10% off coupon for this store. Does it apply to that chair?”
“Yes,” he said.
“Even at the sale price?” I asked.
“Yes,” he said.
“So, I could bring in that coupon and have that $3000 chair for $2250?” I asked.
“Yes,” he said.
“Too bad I can’t afford it,” I said, and we both laughed. I left with my $12 doorknob.
Just the fact that there’s so much debate on this topic (135 comments and counting!) proves that there is no universal standard. When in doubt, ask about store policy!
August 7th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
you go girl! it doesn’t matter what the amount is, they can’t pull that on you. it’s unfair, and if the coupon doesn’t say no, then all systems should be go. i would’ve done it too. on top of that, i would’ve probably written some crazy letter to the store AND head office of the whole chain threatening to never come back to their store and to support their competition instead because of the awful customer service. then they might send you a gift certificate or something… but that’s just me, i’m a little nuts some might say, but customer service is very important to me. if i’m gonna spend my money in your store, you better not lie to me, and you better be nice. otherwise $h!+ is gonna hit the fan!!
August 7th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
The $3 I saved helped pay for some of those supplies. For the next few weekends I’ll be hitting those loss leader sales again, in order to take over more items before school starts.
Incidentally, there was no one behind me in line for most of the time I spent talking with the manager. When someone did show up with a purchase, I stepped aside so the cashier could wait on her.
I promise you that I was not rude. I never raised my voice. I did not use aggressive behavior or body language. When the manager walked off, the cashier actually apologized to me and I said, “It’s not your fault that the cash register wouldn’t accept the coupon.”
As for whether I should have been working and making money instead of stressing over $3 — well, as a freelance writer I set my own hours. Besides, I *did* end up working: I went home and wrote and edited this post.
Everyone who doesn’t agree with my belief that stores should be held accountable to honoring their advertising is certainly welcome to his or her own opinion. I’m simply sharing mine. I’m not insisting that everyone feel the same.
Thanks to all for the feedback, and thanks to you, J.D., for running the piece and the link.
Best regards,
Donna Freedman
August 7th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
I find it funny (or should I say “sad”) that some say “well, $3 is a big deal for me!” while typing this on their computer, with a licence for Windows and also an internet connection they pay for every month…sigh.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Well, I’m glad that you weren’t rude and that you used the money for a noble purpose. That’s a lot more than can be said for most customers I’ve had to deal with.
Make no mistake: just because I really disagree with how you handled the situation does not mean that I don’t “agree with [your] belief that stores should be held accountable to honoring their advertising.” I simply think you went after the wrong people.
The cashier and the manager weren’t the ones that decided to make the register balk at your request, yet they bore the full brunt of your “stand” (even though you weren’t rude, it was an uneasy “confrontation”), and the manager will likely get fussed at for not following company policy. That’s a double serving of suck for a person who played no part in the mistake.
Unless Nancy was exceptionally rude (and trying to stick to what she knows to be company policy even though an unclear coupon seems to indicate otherwise so that she won’t get fired is not being rude), then please send Office Depot a note about the incident, so that maybe Nancy won’t get reprimanded for Office Depot Corporate’s mistake.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
$3 is not a lot of money and I admit I don’t have the patience to do what this poster did.
However, kudos!! You’re well within your right and most of us just give up or don’t think it’s worth the hassle. Congrats.
I wouldn’t care so much about $3 as I would about the principle of the matter. Whether it’s $0.15 or $15.00, a store should honor its commitment and congrats on standing up for it.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Plain and simple — You’re a CHEAP-ASS with nothing better to do!
August 8th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Hi,
I’m from Antwerp, Belgium. I read your story with interest. I’ve been in this kind of situation myself a couple of times, with mixed outcome.
Overhere there’s some guy who actually tends to go out hunting for wrong ads and showing up at the store in question with bagloads of coupons and an attorney to make sure they honour their ‘mistakes’.
In the Past, that ‘Coupon-guy’ has been able to purchase hundreds of things, ranging from frozen food to TVs for only a few dollars … IN TOTAL !
Donating to family, friends and the needy, this modern day Robin Hood is trying to do the same as you mentioned: Stand up against (possible) lies on behalf of the companies. The consumer has rights too you know
Just wanted to share … so if anyone has plenty of time and a good eye for great deals, go ahead !
August 8th, 2008 at 12:33 am
I usually scan through but never comment on the opinions of others. However it appears that some people either didn’t read thoroughly or ignored parts. Others appears to be belligerent. Please think through before criticizing.
I have extensive training and experience in customer service. In this day and age customer service can make or break a company. There are too many options for a customer to stick with a company or product that is inadequate.
I am living in a developing nation where the $3 that Donna saved would allow a student I know to go to her classes for a day by providing transportation and food cost. The young lady is being forced to drop out of school despite being an excellent student because she doesn’t have money to cover transportation.
I am tired of people that put others down because it is easier than to lift them up. So here is me making a stand for Donna and anyone else that stands up for themselves.
Mom always says- There’s three sides to the story. Yours, Mine, and the Truth. I of course do not know more than what is stated by Donna.
12- Arlene- I have a feeling that the people Donna donated these items to appreciated that every penny she saved to assist them. It doesn’t matter the # of people in the line behind her, if a store is to have integrity then they should honor the coupon.
33- Jeff- Yes, obviously karma should take the money out of her grubby little hands… so, I guess you are talking about the hands that will be delivering the supplies to the kids who can’t afford them. Wonder how that karma will play out?
35- UncleMidriff- I must point out that it wasn’t Donna, but Office Depot that created the stress. She was merely adhering to the coupon rules. As you make a very valid point- Office Depot probably won’t care about this issue but they should. If what is taught in customer service training is true, it used to be that if you offer poor service the customer will tell 10 people. Now you offer poor service they tell 10 people and a blog entry is dedicated to it. At this point over 140 responses have been logged.
36- Matt- sounds like you didn’t plan very well. You go in to save a few bucks on some pens during a big sale. What did you expect? If you couldn’t see this coming I wouldn’t want to hire you. (see 79- KC)
43- CFO- maybe if a company isn’t willing to learn a lesson and stand by their price then they don’t deserve to be in business. Standing by your word will get people to come back. Blaming the customer for taking advantage of the mistake will send them away.
—— maybe that is why you don’t have $3 to spare. Not trying to be snarky, just good luck with future finances.
49- Tom- greedy? hum, they offered her the coupon through through a mailer and she has a card from their rewards program. Obviously she has been a loyal customer and they targeted her with this marketing. She didn’t find it in the newspaper or search for the discount online.
52- Dave- lucky for you that you have the luxury to say it isn’t worth $3 to you. Your argument that the coupon is “built in” is invalid because it is not stated on the coupon. Perhaps you are missing out on some opportunities and are too nice to the companies.
54- Troy- it is not whining to ask for proper customer service. If this issue was not solved as it should have been, when it was, who is to say that walking away would have been her next step?
56- FranticWoman- she was not asking for the coupon to be used on her total order, just the items that fell under the coupon which were the backpacks. Since it was not expressed that the coupon was valid for only one backpack, but was valid for only one trip to the store, she was following the terms of the coupon
60- Kevin, 62-Adam- Donna is not the one who is undermining the value of the customers’ time, it is Office Depot. Where does the responsibility of the sales being processed correctly fall?
84- Jane- Why should she be embarrassed for asking then receiving what was offered?
90- WOW- “violating the spirit of a coupon” you mean for it to be valid on what it is advertised to be valid on? How crazy is it that she would expect a coupon that the company mailed Her! should be valid? And you calling her a “greedy a**”, does this keep in spirit with this forum?
93- Adam- she is not complaining to the low level grunts, she is asking for someone to honor a promise made to her by the company. Unfortunately these customer service reps work very hard and are given minimal authorization. To get the appropriate result she had to go to the next level. And yes, it was a promise when they mailed her the coupon.
96- Matthew- congratulations on being paid a decent wage. Many people do not and Donna happens to be trying to help out some of these people. I assure you that every penny counts when you are providing for those without a lot.
101- Lilly- when did asking for something to be handled properly become known as having a hissy fit?
114- JDonner- “acting like an idiot” when did keeping what is yours become stupid? It sounds like making sure that she keeps track of her money allows her the opportunity to purchase things for people that are not able to themselves
117- UncleMidriff- “How much is not looking like an ass worth to you?” It sounds like the same could be asked of you.
129- TJensen- Donna’s obligation is not to the other people in line. But perhaps she benefited them anyway by giving someone else the courage to stand up for themselves in a future situation.
# “J. Donner Says:
August 7th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
I find it funny (or should I say “sad”) that some say “well, $3 is a big deal for me!” while typing this on their computer, with a licence for Windows and also an internet connection they pay for every month…sigh.” Who is to say that the people who don’t have the $3 is sitting on a computer in a library with free access. Just because you can not imagine a world different than the one you see doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
August 8th, 2008 at 4:47 am
Just to add to the stories, I just this past month had to fight ATT for a $125 rebate offer that was promised to me. 2.5 hours total on the phone. About 10 different people, and I finally got someone when a nice employee finally said that I was right and the “condition” that everyone else said excluded me from my $125 was written nowhere on anything to which the customer had access.
August 8th, 2008 at 5:30 am
Seems to me that Office Depot’s corporate office screwed up when they printed the coupons. But that doesn’t explain the conduct of the manager. I’ve worked at a major department store that had a more liberal coupon policy to start with and even then we often honored coupons even if they were expired or being used on an item that was excluded by the terms printed on the coupon. All came down how big a fuss the customer was making.
I wonder how closely Home Depot corporate monitors coupon use and if the manager thought she would get in trouble for honoring the coupon?
Penny-wise, Pound-foolish.
August 8th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Hi!
You should read Stew Leonard’s Rules 1 & 2
Rule 1 The customer is always right
Rule 2 If the customer is ever wrong re-read
Rule 1.
I am a store owner. This kind of stuff is crazy for the store. Look at the expense to them
Say Checkout assistant $12,00 per hr $ 6.00
Supervisor $16.00 per hr $ 8.00
Manager $20.00 per hr $10.00
Total wasted $24.00 and still the inevitable result of having to give the discount.
Imagine if they said good on you I wish more people would think of doing that. You’d be a customer for life. Probably worth $70,000.00
profit to the store.Who am I to say right again! my thinking is convoluted enough.
August 8th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Here’s a healthy example, just happened a today in fact.
Check one of my bills today and it appeared “a bit off” (less usage, but same cost as heavier months). On calling them, turns out I’ve been getting billed incorrectly for the last 4 months.. net result I now am owed the equivalent of $240.
Thing is, if I didn’t question things like the small stuff - and YES this means questioning even a $0.03 difference in price - I would be less inclined to question a bill that was “a bit off”. For the net loss of $60 per month!!
Believe it or not, having the habit of ignoring small stuff, means you will be that much less likely to question the big stuff (you simply won’t care). That’s why so many are applauding this example. People that find it hard to comprehend: are you perhaps being ripped off to a much larger scale that you “just don’t worry about”?
August 8th, 2008 at 6:11 am
I can sympathize with the manager here. We’re so driven to produce sales and protect the company’s margin that we forget we’re merely flogging consumables for a distant faceless legal entity, to the actual people who stand before us every day, and begin to feel personally offended when someone wants to deprive “us” of “our sales.”
But just because I sympathize with her actions does not mean I condone them. While I don’t believe the customer is always right, and have had to turn down more than my share of customers seeking a discount, you can only support your position on behalf of the company if the company is willing to support you by advertising their terms of sale clearly. If the company’s terms are ambiguous or invisible to the consumer, it becomes the decision of the manager, and that decision should ALWAYS favor good customer service.
I applaud you for sticking to your guns. You were right, and the manager should have honored that the moment it got down to “corporate intentions” vs. “what the damned coupon says.” Yay for smart consumers!
Oh, and one final note: If you do get upset over a decision a manager makes at a corporate store, please don’t utter the phrase “I’ll never shop here again!” This is precisely the moment the manager will stop caring about said legal entity and will feel a wave of relief that they will never have to deal with you and your conflict ever again. If you want results, ask for the number to corporate customer relations. If you truly are right, it will make a difference. If not, the manager will be protected and you’ll get an appeasement discount.
August 8th, 2008 at 7:31 am
I had a strikingly similar experience with Office Depot a few months ago. I’ll try to be brief about it, though it was a 30-minute ordeal that ended with me leaving and bursting into tears of rage. Yes, I’m a bargain shopper, but it was OD who sent me the coupons to get me into their store in the first place. The computer refused the coupons, even though there was no fine print that said they weren’t applicable to sale items. I was polite throughout, but firm, and asked for a manager right away, but the cashier refused to call one (and she wasn’t one of the “young ones” we’re supposed to be easy on). The price rang up differently than it did on the shelf, and I was sent back with another employee to verify. Then, when she finally consented to override the computer and give me 30% off, the computer took the 30% off the incorrect price — you wouldn’t believe how much work I had to do to convince her that $4.99 and 30% off was not $4.01, because that’s what the computer said it was. The manager was called after about the 5th time I asked — again, I was polite but firm. But the cashier felt I was “abusing” her, and made a point of telling me that she *never* used coupons, and that even when she’d encountered a similar problem in another store, she never confronted anyone about it. Because this is the second time I’ve encountered problems using COUPONS THEY SENT ME, ultimately, OD has lost my business for good. I will not go into their store; I will not buy from them online. And I am a small business owner, a Girl Scout leader, and a mother who buys a lot of school supplies. They’re hurting themselves with their own “policies.”
August 8th, 2008 at 8:09 am
Volunteer:
It is whining, and here is why.
The poster thinks she “deserved” the coupon discount.
No one deserves anything. anywhere.
Poster goes into the store and tries to buy the merchendise with a coupon. She is not being forced. She is using free will.
The store is selling the item. No force. Free will. Simple two party business transaction
there seems to be a disagreement over the price of the items. Fine. This is where the “whining” comes in.
If it were me, I would have simply said “i am willing to purchase the items for x price”
The cashier/manager, etc declines, which they did for 10 minutes, so I would have………….LEFT. without the merchandise and WITHOUT GIVING THEM ANY MONEY. Only I would have left 15 seconds after they said no.
Not because I cannopt stand up for myself, and not because I do not have principles, but because I do. I believe in actions, not words. This is a simple transaction that can be solved quickly… by NOT buying that stores wares.
Here is a test question to see if leaving or arguing is the right answer.
Lets say the poster can get her hands on another flyer/circular with that same coupon. Will she go into another Office Depot and do it again out of principle. In fact, if it is all about principle, shouldn’t all her supporters get ahold of that coupon and go into every store they can find, and all demand “truth in advertising”
Then everyone can argue for 10 minutes over principle. Somehow I have a feeling the poster will not try and use another coupon again. And likely other commenters won’t either.
What I have read them saying is they “won’t shop there again”
That is my point. If you really want to prove a point and stand on principle, don’t give them 10% less after arguing for 10 minutes, give them NOTHING, and WALK OUT IMMEDIATELY and give their competitor your money instead. That is principle.
August 8th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Good job. 10 minutes spent for the $3 discount is definitely worth it. Just think at an hourly rate, that would be equal to $18 for your time, which is way higher than the minimum wage and probably about as much as the manager is making, not to mention the time it took you to earn that money in the first place.
August 8th, 2008 at 9:16 am
I experienced something similar to this but I never got my money back. This happened to me the other day at Safeway. The sign said “Buy One, Get One Free”. Naturally, I picked up two. The other item said “10 for $10″. I picked up two, ten is too many. When I got home, I realized I paid full price for our all four items. I went back to let them know. The asst. mgr said, “There’s no sign up now. All you can do is bring them back and we’ll return it for you.” I insisted it wasn’t my fault that they didn’t take down their signs before their new sale began. She said, “you should have told me yesterday.” I said that I didn’t have time to itemize every single item at the counter while the next person wants to pay and leave as quickly as I do. She kept repeating all I could do is come back and return the items. In which I said, “Well, that’s great!? Waste more of time!” This happened to me at Lucky, once before, and the manager apologized for the inconvenience, refunded my money, and I was on my way. First of all, this Safeway is completely out of the way for me. Second, she basically was saying that I was lying. I told her I wouldn’t have wasted my time driving out here if I knew I was wrong. Unfortunately, I never got my $20 that I was cheated out of due to Safeway’s mistake!
August 8th, 2008 at 10:00 am
If I were the store manager I’d take the coupon, rip it in half, give you $3 from my wallet and tell you to get the hell out of my store.
August 8th, 2008 at 10:24 am
If you think this kind of thing isn’t worth your time, okay. It’s not worth your time and you can choose to let it go. However it’s hard to take seriously that kind of statement from someone who is using up their highly valuable time being rude to other posters on the web for free.
You think the person in front of you is holding you up over that money? Putting aside the question of how reasonable it is to blame other people for not accommodating your convenience at every turn, if you’re going to blame Donna for insisting on the 20% then you should assign equal blame to the workers for insisting on not giving the 20%. Donna could have walked away or the manager could have overtly refused and said take it or leave it.
Finally, I’m also confused by all this hand-wringing over being “difficult” for the workers in the store and saying that oh, it’s not them, it’s HQ - make HQ’s life difficult, not theirs! Why is being a courteous customer asking for someone to honor the company’s offers such a horrific imposition? They’re paid to do a job - provide service to customers. Donna asked them to do their jobs. Was her interaction with them a little harder than simply running items over a scanner and processing a credit card? Maybe, but so what?
Odds are good that every one of us will make it from now till the end of the year and never once deal with the employee who made the strategic decision they are enforcing. The Starbucks employee didn’t set the store hours, the waiter didn’t choose how to prepare our dinner, the mechanic didn’t pick the parts supplier, etc etc. But they are the public face of the company and the person we are interacting with in our dealings with them. Asking them to help us get what we want in exchange for our money is not only reasonable, it’s expected. After all, did you go into the Apple store and refuse to hand your money for that iPhone to anyone but Steve Jobs?
August 8th, 2008 at 10:26 am
I have largely encountered coupons and signage that clearly state, Not Valid on Sale Items. It’s an oversight on corporate’s Marketing if they do not include this disclaimer on coupon copy — and what is stated is what the store should stand behind. The consumer should be able to “stand her ground” so that 1) she can individually make her purchase as stated on the coupon and 2)the store Manager can report the problematic coupon copy to Corporate, if necessary. Neither the Manager nor the cashier should be penalized for a mistake made by its Marketing department (so I don’t “buy” the claims that the cashier will be penalized or the Manager will be docked somehow). It’s Corporate’s problem. It should not be the problem of the consumer.
August 8th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Two points as this discussion winds down:
1) Large retailers have significant legal budgets and do get the language of any contract vetted by the lawyers first. “One-time use” mean one use, not one article. Otherwise it would say “limit one item per customer.” If a store cannot get this straight, it is the store’s problem.
2) Large retailers are not to be pitied. They are neither good nor evil - they are merely amorphous blobs that exist for one single purpose: to get your money. They expend considerable funds and research into finding ways to make you part with your money, and part with more money than you were planning to. It takes a lot of effort to consciously be aware of those strategies at all times and to counteract them. I highly recommend the book “Why We Shop” by Paco Underhill to anybody on this forum who is interested in the strategies used by retailers. To that extent, it truly is an “us versus them”. If a retailer makes you feel relaxed and welcome, it is to get you to part with your money. If a supermarket has a bakery with the smell of fresh bread, it is to get you to part with your money. If sales associates are trained to approach you and provide personalized service, it is to get to to part with your money. Each and every one of these factors is pored over and consciously and analytically put into place. Loss-leaders are an analytical business decision based on the statistical reasoning that the majority of customers will not only buy the loss-leader but profitable products as well, a percentage of these profitable products being impulse buy items.
Considering the sheer information imbalance between large retailers and individual consumers, it is perfectly legitimate for a consumer to exploit a loophole.
August 8th, 2008 at 11:43 am
I wasn’t trying to be rude to Donna. I disagree with what she did and I think she went after the wrong people, but it’s her three bucks, she can do what she wants to. And I didn’t say or intend to imply that she was being an ass. I was merely pointing out that the other people involved in the situation *will likely* perceive her as an ass, even though she wasn’t rude. If I was forced by unclear rules regarding coupon use to choose between possibly being perceived as an ass and spending $3, I’d choose to spend $3 every time. Donna didn’t mind risking being perceived as an ass for $3. That is fine. I disagree, but it’s fine. To reiterate, I never called Donna an ass.
I don’t expect people to “accommodate my convenience at every turn.” But when someone in front of me in line does something that holds up the line, I do get irritated with them, even if I don’t think they’re being unreasonable. I bet most people do too. For that reason, I really, really, really don’t like being that person in the front of the line holding other people up, even if I’m right. I simply don’t like that much potential ill will being directed at me.
I place the blame for the situation entirely on Office Depot corporate. They screwed up, which led to headaches for both Donna and the store employees. It’s not fair that Donna was put into this situation. But, nevertheless, she was put into this situation, and I disagree with how she handled it. I place very little blame on the store employees because they were simply doing what corporate wants them to do. I’m not surprised at all that the employees chose to side initially with the people that write their paychecks over some customer who wants $3.
I’m overly concerned about making the cashier’s and manager’s life as easy and hassle free as possible because I have been both. What I took away from my experience in retail is that I should go out of my way to be exceptionally nice and easy to deal with for store employees. This includes not blaming them for things that aren’t their fault or doing things that will likely get them in trouble with their superiors, unless they are in fact being extraordinarily rude. It was not wrong at all for Donna to request clarification about the coupon situation. But once it became clear that the problem was with corporate, I would have either chosen to buy the backpacks, or leave them there, and then I would have written Office Depot an email. That way I get what I want (or I don’t, in which case I stop shopping at Office Depot), and I don’t have to risk getting the manager in trouble to get it.
August 8th, 2008 at 11:51 am
@The Beagle:
Agreed, large, morally neutral amorphous blobs are not to be pitied. The lack of pity and the Us vs Them mentality that is perfectly acceptable when directed at such blobs, however, is not acceptable when it is directed at the amorphous blob’s employees.
August 8th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Oooh this story both inspires me and makes me so mad - at the customer service lapse and store philosophies of the last few decades!
Bravo Donna! It truly is the principle. And in this case, because she does have access to widespread media, it is particularly beneficial for her to stand up for these principles AND write about them. It is my hope that the ‘higher ups’ will hear of this (if their publicity managers are doing their jobs or if they even care).
It is also an example, given the fear-based backlash on this story, of how the valiant act, the right act and the act that will help more people in the long run is not always the popular act in the beginning.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
I feel that as a finance writer, freedman should have known that, as is standard practice EVERYWHERE, coupons don’t work on sale priced items. In my opinion, she really can’t use the argument that she came to the store only because of the deal she thought she’d be getting. A smart shopper is suspicious of deals of this sort, and if they do choose to pursue them, they do so knowing their suspicions might well be true. Sure, she makes a valid point that only that information which is on the coupon applies, and in this case the corporation screwed up, but she really needs to loosen up. It’s not even that she lost three dollars, she just didn’t get to save three dollars. she might’ve been mugged on the way to the store or tripped and broken her leg; things happen, and not getting to save three dollars is nowhere near the worst of them.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
@UncleMidriff:
Nothing was directed against the employees. If the store policy is to to provide front-line employees practically no discretion or decision-making power, that should not be an argument for sucking things up merely to avoid offending someone making a low salary. Your argument reminds me of the “shut up or I’ll kill the bunny” technique from South Park.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Lucas wrote: I feel that as a finance writer, freedman should have known that, as is standard practice EVERYWHERE, coupons don’t work on sale priced items.
Again, I feel it’s important to note, that this is incorrect. Be default, coupons are valid on sale price items unless expressly disallowed. I don’t like that people keep saying this because it’s wrong and will discourage people from trying to save money.
See my comment #136 above. My wife and I use coupons on sale items every week at the grocery store (Safeway, a national chain). It’s common practice for coupon clippers to combine coupons with sales. (There are entire sites devoted to this premise.)
Coupons can always be used with sales unless it is stated otherwise. That’s the default.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Get a life! This isn’t about principle, or a company trying to lure people into a store with false promises, it’s about raking a bunch of poor working schlubs — the cashier making $8 an hour, the manager making $10 — over the coals for not having the training to easily override their automated cash registers. I’ve worked in the service industry, unlike most of you elitist assholes, and I know sometimes you have to apply Occam’s Razor in these situations and look for the simplest explanation. Overriding the registers’ programming is a pain in the ass, and the employees didn’t really know how to do it. By doing what they eventually did for your lousy F-ing $3 it probably creates a lot of work and confusion at the end of the day when the teller does her cash out and the manager does his end of day report.
Yes, the coupon should have said that it didn’t apply to items already on sale, but big deal — someone in head office, probably making $12 an hour and worried about losing their home to the subprime meltdown, made a mistake. Quit crying, and get on with your life.
I’ll bet Donna, the writer of this article makes mistakes herself sometimes, and doesn’t expect perfection of herself — so why does she expect it from all the poor schlubs who work the front lines of the service industry who routinely get f-ed over by idiots in head office who don’t understand their jobs either? My advice? Pay the extra $3, thank the teller, walk away, and write a letter to head office asking for a refund. Of course you don’t get to strut around like a preening, self-righteous, self-empowered douchebag like we all seem to enjoy doing these days every time the people serving us make mistakes, but it’s the right thing to do every time. We’re too quick jumping from annoyed to outraged to victimized in this society. Try focusing on the things that matter.
August 8th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
@The Beagle:
You’re absolutely right; it isn’t an argument to suck things up “merely to avoid offending someone making a low salary,” but it is an argument to avoid offending someone making a low salary when the problem isn’t their fault and instead going after the people who actually are at fault, i.e., corporate.
August 8th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Ed #10: I am not sure I understand your point. Is the only correct/permitted/clever comment along thge lines of “wow! yeah! what a great article!”?
August 8th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
i love reading this stuff. we’re one of the richest countries on earth and get outraged over 2 pennies…which is probably why we’re rich. having lived in poorer countries, i always found it funny that they would round the bill/invoice/etc down to something ‘close enough’ thus developing a sense of ‘we’re in this together’. corporations have their employees running scared and removed their understanding of how to build a customer base.
August 8th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
I’m glad she stuck to her principles. Too many people today have NONE. All of you that say your time is worth more have no principle and probably sorry ethics too.
Corporate would take advantage of you if they could so you should do the same. That’s the way buisness works. It’s about being savvy and seeing opportunity when you see it.
There is no price on principle, it is priceless.
To those of you saying the battle is won and the war is lost….
It has nothing to do with that. Corporate makes that decision. Who is corporate? A faceless entity that doesn’t give a flying rats ass about you. Send you lame useless letter…then when they don’t reply what do you do then.
Nothing. Because you are spineless and don’t wanna look like an ass in front of others. Who cares what others think.
Stick to your principles at all times.
August 8th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Thank you! Now I can show this to my wife and let her know I am not the only one!
I argued with a CSR at a big name technology store for 30 minutes regarding a lie that I caught her in. Well, not only the lie, but the $20 behind the lie.
Basically it involved a “re-stocking” fee on a returned digital camera.
August 8th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Stores pull this kind of “tell you only part of what you need to know” thing all the time. One very common practice is to advertise a terrific price if you buy a ridiculous number of the same thing, usually 5 or 10 of them….$20 for 10 gallons of milk for example.
Interestingly, what they don’t tell you is that they have to sell these items at the stated price, even if you only buy one. Always have the cashier check first, but your one “10 for $5″ avocado should cost you $.50, your single “5 for $10″ box of cereal should cost you $2, and so forth. Try it sometime.
Cathy Sykes
moneytospare.net
August 8th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I was with you up until the “one time use” thing. That definitely means it’s good on one item (in this case being one backback) and one item only.
Otherwise, I agree that it should be clearly stated whether or not a coupon is valid on sale items or not.
August 8th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I hope Office Depot goes out of business or better yet, just files for bankruptcy protection. Yeah! That will teach them.
Can you imagine? They wouldn’t give this ridiculous, petty woman free back packs. The nerve! After all she had a coupon. I’m surprised she didn’t sue. Or maybe she will in the future. Maybe this battle she had with Office Depot caused her stress and hemrhoids.
I think that Donna is an out and out moron. A total waste of time and human life. Are you for real??? Have you nothing better to do than rip off companies. Have you seen the economy lately? If Office Depot goes out of business by selling products as a loss, consider yourself the nails in the coffin. What if everyone went to Office Depot and demanded all the back packs for free because you didn’t have the brain cells to correctly decipher a coupon. Coupons usually do not apply to sale items. If the retailer didn’t include that option on the ticket does that give you the right to be unethical and rob them blind???? Where are your morals, respect, common sense? Think about the company and it’s own bottom line? The jobs that are on the line at that store?
If I were the supervisor, I would have thrown her out of the building on her ass.
You are a scavenger and a bottom feeder. And JD should be ashamed of himself for even posting such dribble.
August 8th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I’m cool with her holding the company to its word, but I will also admit that she apparently has a lot more free time than I do. I would simply have chosen another store selling school supplies for all of my future purchases, and informed them of that fact on the way out. Sometimes that very thought will give a measure of insurance that the manager will have a change of heart. Not always, but sometimes.
Jerry
August 8th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
@ alicia - perhaps you should get a job at Office Depot, because your extreme over-reactions would land OD with lawsuits which could put it out of business very quickly - something not likely to happen as the result of customers simply insisting on their legal rights. Did calling Donna a “moron” make you feel good? I wonder what to call someone who has made no effort to consider the facts, or understand the legal and ethical issues involved in this case. Oh and BTW, it’s “drivel”, not “dribble”.
Donna, the alarm bells usually start ringing very loud when people start saying “it’s not the money, it’s the principle”, but in this case, I applaud your actions, perseverance and courage 100%. Well done!
August 8th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
@alicia: As people have commented again and again, coupons CAN be applied to sale items.
Its not illegal, unethical or ‘robbing them blind’. It is just making your money go further by being a smart shopper.
Not all people can be smart shoppers, I know that I can’t but I am grateful to people like Donna because they keep companies honest.
August 8th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
I can see both sides of this issue, but I do think it’s ironic that Cool_Dude (#168) commented that the people who say their time is worth more than $3 have no “no principles and probably sorry ethics,” but also proceeded to say: “Corporate would take advantage of you if they could so you should do the same.” That kind of attitude pretty unethical to me.
I actually think Donna was mostly within her rights here (thought it’s not totally clear cut - the biggest weakness being the one-time use thing, which totally could mean on only one item), but I think it would be sleazy to take advantage of a corporation just because you can. Technically you can return anything you’ve ever bought anywhere to Nordstrom’s and they will take it back because it’s their policy, but to do so on an item you bought elsewhere would be unethical in my book.
August 8th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
This actually happens to me very many times. Not that the employees of the store refuse a discount per se, but that they very often ignore that you are eligible for a discount; and they just assume that you are not. A typical example is with my grocery or pharmacy loyalty cards. At the register, many times, I have to search for my loyalty card and simply hand the cashiers my credit card first. When I pulled out my loyalty card, the cashiers would complain about having to do the register again. Or, they would tell me to go to customer service to re-do the receipt, which is a long process, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it makes people leave thinking “Only a few bucks.”
Also, many items are only eligible with a loyalty card, but are not clearly stated on the shelf. If you are first time shopper in such stores, and haven’t got the card yet, no cashier would remind you about that. Even when registration is open and easy, the cashiers wouldn’t tell you. If you don’t look at the receipt closely, you may assume that the discount was already taken care of while it wasn’t. I call this tricky marketing.
August 8th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Sometimes cashiers are super nice about coupons, too. I shop at Fred Meyer all the time and there are lots of coupons in their weekly circulars–for example it might be 10% off sporting goods this week, etc. I’ve had many occasions where the cashier said, “hey we’ve got a 10% off” and gave it to me without me having a coupon, or even asking about it. I got that 10% when I recently bought 4 camping chairs–and that 10% off was on top of them being on sale. And the cashier did it for me, I didn’t have a coupon.
August 9th, 2008 at 8:14 am
WOW! 178 comments and counting… This story really stirred people up.
I wanted to tell my own story where I fought with the bank over a penny.
I have my student loan come out of my bank account every Thursday. I’m also a zero dollar budgeter, meaning that there is no money in my account after all my bill payments and payments to ING clear.
One week the bank slipped up and took out my student loan payment on Wednesday. I called them and asked them what happened and to reverse the 5$ bounced fee, which they did no trouble. The problem came at the end of the month when I had an “unauthorized overdraft charge” of 0.01$. Instead of calling the student loan department (which I should have done in hindsight) I called the regular branch and you should have heard the tone in the woman’s voice when she found out I was asking about a penny.
Yes, I called my bank and took the 15 minutes to wait and argue and then wait on hold so that they could reverse 1 cent, purely on the principle of the fact that I had an agreement with the bank (that they take my student loan out on Thursday) and that they broke their agreement (by taking out the payment on Wednesday). Therefore I planned my life around this agreement and it was not my fault and I shouldn’t be held accountable for the charges that occurred by the breaking of this agreement.
The principle to me was more important than the 0.04$/hour I earned by making the fuss.
August 9th, 2008 at 10:50 am
I certainly think $3.00 is worth arguing for. That’s 8 oz. of Steak, a bottle of dish washing liquid, or a full meal from a “Dollar Menu.” Plus, I believe a coupon is like a miniature contract. If it’s not on the coupon, it does not apply. If the store tries to differ from the coupon, bait and switch laws may apply.
August 9th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
I did something like this once and I still feel like an idiot.
August 10th, 2008 at 7:28 am
@Another Ed, I agree that a coupon *is* like a mini contract. The Company, and its Marketing department, made an offer. Donna accepted. Company takes back (reneged on) the offer, stating the mini contract was misrepresentative. The misrepresentative mini-contract coupons, however, are still in circulation to the consumer. What was Donna’s remedy? To take up the issue with the Company employees who stood directly before her, while the transaction was still viable.
By the employees and Company finally assenting to the “terms” of the mini contract, Company keeps its integrity.
As was stated here in at least one comment above, Donna helped keep Company honest.
That is a good thing.
August 10th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Why are so many people insisting that the customer, not the store, should have taken the position “it’s only $3, let it go”? Read Jess’s post - anybody believe that if your account were OVERdrawn one cent, that if you called the bank and said “dudes, it’s just a penny” that your bank would say, okay, we’ll let it go this time?
I understand the frustration about being stuck in line behind somebody who is trying to get a discount they are not entitled to. The solution for that is for the manager to open up another line and direct the remaining customers so they aren’t slowed up.
And anyone who really thinks $3 is nothing? Please feel free to send $3 to me directly, since you won’t miss it much.
August 10th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
If I was that employee. I would be upset. I would just reach in my pocket and tell them here is your .60.
August 11th, 2008 at 6:12 am
A woman after my own heart……I would have done the same thing!!
August 11th, 2008 at 6:30 am
So at what point, do you get this corrected for the people who are so adamant that this isn’t worth it? Is it $10, or $50 or $100? Sometimes, it is just the feeling that you are getting screwed over by a big company(I feel that way with EXXON’s 113 billion profit this quarter- so I am walking more).
I bought something that was on a sale that started on a Friday- but I bought it on Sunday- and I was charged the full price. I went to customer service-because cashiers can’t correct based on the newspaper ad. The service manager told me he knew about the problem. So since Friday, in a high volume supermarket, an item on the front page of their ad had been ringing incorrectly-I didn’t say anything to him(like what does it take for your store to correct its registers?). I think once a manager knows and an overall store correction isn’t done - it may amount to consumer fraud. I don’t have time to get involved in this in a major way now- but I sometimes think that in retirement(which is not too far off), I might want to work with our state/county consumer protection office.
Overage- stores are not required to give overage on coupons. I had a $3 coupon for shampoo and the shampoo was on sale for $2.99. The coupon could not be rung as usual and the manager had to key it in for $2.99. I was thrilled to get free shampoo. So no one is required to give you more than the cost of the item based on a coupon.
August 11th, 2008 at 8:00 am
I know someone who shops RiteAid (since its not out of his way) specifically for free shampoos and soaps with coupons, or things that end up costing <$1 after MIR or coupons. He then brings them into work and sells them for $1 each. Its a ongoing joke since he can actually make money from things he is buying on sale.
Separately, always keep an eye out for what ‘weekly specials’ ring up as. I bought Goodfellas yesterday at Best Buy since it was advertised as $5. They mistakenly put the $5 ‘as-advertisted’ countertag over the 2-disc version of the movie, so I ‘unknownly’ picked up that 2-disc version. I knew it was going to ring up as $20 since it was a different SKU, but was ready to catch it. Sure enough, it rang as $20, and I was quick to call them on how they had a countertag in the aisle where the movie is normally located. The next-level cash register manager (not store manager), reluctantly fixed the price to $5 for the 2-disc rather, then commented about how the cashier should have checked the SKUs. I probably would have argued for the 2-disc if they would have pressed the issue.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:12 am
When I was making only $8/hr (before taxes), $3 was a big deal. In fact, that is about how much breakfast would have cost me if I bought a bagel & cream cheese.
I would not have spent so much time on the coupon though. I would have just not bought the item and let them lose the sale.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Obviously, this woman doesn’t value her time very much. While I appreciate her trying to hold Office Depot to their word, it is people like this that make the wait times even longer. Personally in this case I would have forgotten about the discount because I would not have wanted to keep other customers waiting. I guess some people not only do not have a concept of their time, but a concept of others time as well.
Of course the manager should have just given the discount immediately, but to sit there and argue for 10+ minutes and make other people wait for 60 cents is ridiculous.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
“Why do posts like this always get people like Kevin commenting on them?”
@EG: We live in a free nation where everyone’s opinions should be respected. You are entitled to yours as am I.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:35 am
I gotta say, if I was the manager in this particular situation, I would have flat out said no way am I honoring this coupon. It’s OK for a business to say no. Most businesses don’t seem to realize that the customer is not always right. Say Home Depot loses her business, “I’ll never shop at this store again!”. So what? It’s a volume business where the individual doesn’t really matter, and you might say “think of the bad publicity!” So what? There will always be negative publicity concerning big box retailers and people writing blog posts about how much they suck (warranted or unwarranted) so why not add one more to the mix? Frankly, when I worked in retail, these were exactly the kinds of customers that cost the place the most money. If a business isn’t providing value to the customer, than they’re not a very good business. Then again, if the customer is not providing value to the business, they’re not a very good customer. I’d rather let my competitors deal with BS like this in the future. Home Depot is better off without you as a customer.
August 14th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I LOVED that Story! Good for you getting your Three bucks. This whole problem exist b/cause BIG companies don’t properly train their People. They have NO Idea how to treat people. See the above comment…
August 16th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Good for you! I always go thru this at markets or retail stores especially since I have to purchase more than one of the same items since I have three sons. I always stick to my guns. One dollar or three dollars in the long run it adds up. I also feel that these stores advertise and send coupons just to get us the retailers in their stores for what to give us this crap.
August 25th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
I’ve decided to reply because I’m feeling a little more blunt than usual.
Yes, you can get away with just about anything in retail if you are belligerent enough. As someone who as been on the manager side of the equation, I would have concluded pretty quickly that this is the sort of penny-pinching asshole I would prefer to escort off the premises and ban from the store, but would instead try to placate just enough to make her shut up and go away so I can keep the actually-paying customers around her from abandoning ship.
I will agree with the writer this far: Someone in the corporate office of Office Depot was sloppy as hell in sending out a coupon for backpacks without the appropriate disclaimers when they were also running a loss-leader cheap-as-hell backpack sale. That person should pay!
The problem is, that person didn’t pay and that person won’t pay. Instead, inspired by insipid articles like this one, the front-end cashiers and so-called “managers” will bear the brunt of this person’s oversight and, like the people in this story, do their best to work out and explain the inconsistency that their corporate overlords have created.
I have been in “Nancy”’s position and my first reaction to the article-writer’s complaint is that everyone should know by now that most, if not all, coupons and sales are intended to be separate from each other. Most of them explicitly state somewhere on the coupon or the ad paper that this offer cannot be combined with any other. I personally consider it to be an egregiously stupid oversight if it doesn’t and, if we can take this author at her word, this is the case here.
If I were the cashier in this situation, I would have followed exactly the same steps that this one did. Try the coupon. It didn’t work. Try to explain that coupons normally can’t be combined with loss-leader sales (or any other sales, for that matter, but that’s not important now). Try again. Try to explain that people who work in the store have no control over what coupons are sent out, what they say, or how the cash registers handle them. Then, if none of that had worked to mollify the problem, call for the manager on duty.
As the manager on duty, I would have also followed the exact same steps as the manager in this story. Find out the situation from the cashier. Try to explain that retailers normally do not allow sales offers to be combined. Look at the coupon itself to determine if the normally-present “This offer cannot be combined with any other offer” is present. No? Then it must be on the ad. It’s not? It must not be prominent, then. Maybe it’s in the unreasonably miniature print (#&$^% bastards!). It’s not there either?(#^%*#*#)
At that point, I would have given in. I would have been terribly pissed off, not at the customer, but at the corporate bastard who couldn’t even bother to use a *#&$#&&$ template to create this *#^#*#% coupon that would include the normal legalese that would make my life so much easier at this point. Instead, I’ve now got some belligerent bitch in front of me insisting that I sell her four backpacks for loss-leader amounts, and throw one in for free because someone I will never meet didn’t bother to spell out what I consider to be a normally-reasonable assumption.
So, great! You bullied a store manager into giving you a free backpack. Good for you! You took advantage of some missing bit of legalese to harangue a tired, hard-working woman out something you would have otherwise had to underpay $3 for. Fantastic!
People like you are the only ones I ever hated in retail. Most people are reasonable, but there’s always someone who, like you, seems to think that they’re special; that some clever bit of combining this sale with that sale and this coupon with that coupon means that they don’t actually have to *pay* for what they want to buy. And who get all indignant when you try to explain that there’s even the slightest possibility that they’ve just maybe misunderstood some aspect of the situation. Bastard!
And, frankly, I’ve been poor. I know what it’s like to have to choose between paying the electric bill and buying a loaf of bread. I am not insensitive to the plight of someone trying to stretch a buck, but this particular article strikes me as someone trying to steal an apple and then complaining that the company never put up a sign up saying that she shouldn’t steal apples from them. So, here’s a clue to all of you: Don’t steal apples! I’ll let you work out the rest from there.
August 26th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Having calmed down and read a few more of the other comments, I would like to add a few things to my previous rant.
“One time use”: I would categorically refuse to argue that “one time use” means one backpack in this case. “One time use” generally means using the coupon for one transaction. If the coupon or ad does not specifically say “Limit 1″ but does say “ALL backpacks”, then I have to conclude that “One time use” means as many backpacks as you care to buy at one time. If, on the other hand, the coupon says X amount off of “ANY backpack”, then I would assume that it is meant to apply to just one backpack and not one hundred. And, if you take the view that the coupon is a “mini contract” (see, for example, “Another Ed” #180), then “We reserve the right to limit quantities” (which this coupon *DID* say) could just as easily mean limiting the quantities to 1 as to 5 or 10 or 100. Even so, since I could easily limit the damage to letting Donna steal only one backpack instead of all five while still making her feel as if she’s won some sort of bullshit victory over me, I would have had no incentive to pull out that tactic.
Wait! (you might be saying) *Stealing* a backpack? *Limiting* the damage? Yes, if the manager (”Nancy”) was at all bright, she gave Donna one backpack for free and left the other four super-cheap backpacks alone. Donna gets her $3 off and the store only sees one backpack on the bottom line as having left the store without payment of any kind. If she was stupid, Nancy rang up five backpacks for $2.39 and lost every bit of reimbursement and/or credit from both the loss-leader sale and the coupon that her store would normally receive. Her store looks that much worse in comparison to other stores in the company and the people who work there end up suffering when it comes time to work out things like raises or bonuses at the end of the fiscal year. Yes, Donna got a free backpack, but she also made it that much harder for the logistics manager in the back room to get her minuscule raise and buy her own kid a backpack, when you get right down to it.
The people who are so happy to proclaim that “It is important for consumers to speak up and not let companies get away with practices like this,” don’t seem to realize that by making these arguments in the store means that they are *NOT* speaking up to “The Company” but are, instead, speaking up to (and taking advantage of) the low-level, front-end people who are, most likely, just as hard-pressed for cash as you are. And they’re the ones you end up hurting as a result. You want to hurt “The Company”? Write a letter! Get a lawyer! Get the media involved! But don’t harass the front-end cashier and the store manager who are just trying to make a living, same as you!
And I want to make it clear as well that this particular front-end cashier and this particular manager were almost certainly *NOT* out to deceive or defraud anyone. They were most likely (like Donna) just trying to protect their own bottom line and (unlike Donna) lost in this case.
Finally, I would like to address Donna directly for a moment. You say that you are “familiar with the concept of a loss leader: you lose money on some items to get people into the store.” At the same time, you point out that you were only buying these loss-leader backpacks “Along with other loss-leader school supplies.” Not once do you mention buying anything that is not a loss-leader item and that is probably the biggest reason that the store employees balked at using a coupon on top of the already-ridiculous savings you were already enjoying. FYI, the concept of a loss-leader is not to “get people into the store,” it is to get enough people into the store who will then buy enough non-loss-leader items to make up the difference. If that doesn’t happen, the store loses and the people who work at the store lose as well. I can say from experience that it really hurts to watch person after person come in and buy nothing but loss-leader items and resist any efforts to suggest anything that might make up the smallest bit of difference, so that when someone like you, Donna, comes in with a poorly-written coupon and a unreasonable sense of entitlement, I, as the manager on duty, am most likely at the end of my proverbial rope. I don’t care that “they’ll be donated to a local social services agency” because I’ve already heard eighteen other hard-luck/great-cause pitches today alone. In at least one store I’ve worked at, I would have also already dealt with three juvenile delinquents who were trying to steal the same backpacks fair-and-square instead of producing some random coupon and trying to argue that it’s a “mini-contract”. Throughout the week, I would have dealt with at least twenty people trying to use “OfficeMax” coupons and threatening to take their business to “Office Depot” if I don’t comply with their wishes. In one store, I had an inordinate number of people who seemed to think that buying two things meant they should get a “bulk discount” or that telling me how they “buy a lot of stuff here” entitled them to some sort of special treatment. Okay, news flash: If you have to *tell* me how much you buy from me, then you’re not buying enough to make me notice! Get over it! If all you’re buying is the ultra-cheap, loss-leader stuff, I would much rather spend my time working with a customer who is making me money than spending any amount of energy on someone like you who is stealing money from me and being pissed off about it to boot!
The only good thing to come out of this whole conversation for me is the realization of how passionate I get when it comes to protecting “my” store and “my” employees. It makes me want to go back into retail. (But not, I have to say, at another big-box, no-control kind of place like Office Depot.)
August 27th, 2008 at 8:12 am
I continue to not understand how courteously asking the front-line employees to honor the company’s published offers is bullying or harassing them. They’re paid to be there and do a job, and sometimes that job involves more than simply pulling the trigger on the scanning gun and swiping a credit card.
It is possible to treat someone with courtesy and respect while requesting they do something different, give something another look, or call a supervisor to fix a perceived problem. You’re free to engage in all the condemnation and hatred you like, but that doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
August 27th, 2008 at 8:59 am
You’re right, Don. There is nothing wrong with trying to use a coupon and then, when that coupon doesn’t work as you expect it to, courteously inquiring as to why.
But to “stand your ground” until you get what’s yours from the front-line employees even though they’re not the ones who screwed up, even though doing so won’t at all affect the people who *did* screw up, even though doing so *will* negatively affect the front-line employees, and then blogging about how you’ve struck a blow for consumers everywhere against corporate America is a bit… *irritating.*
August 31st, 2008 at 3:33 pm
what boggles my mind about this is that this is actually considered blog-worthy. honestly, i just wasted 10 minutes of my time reading this and the comments. you owe ME $3, Donna.
oh but wait, i *chose* to read this post and waste my time? well, you *chose* to visit that particular store. buy the backpacks, or leave. don’t waste time and then post about a non-story.
corporations have no obligation to you. a store circular or a coupon are not contracts. they are not obligated to follow through with anything they say. if you have problem with it, take it up with the corporate office, a lawyer, or your state senator. or go buy your backpacks elsewhere.
my remaining question - if the manager would not have budged, would you have foregone the backpacks and not made the donation? there’s the true principle of the story.
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:59 am
My perspective is that even though $3 isn’t a lot of money, it is certainly worth fighting for. If it takes 10 minutes to get a $3 win, that translates into $18 an hour ($3 x 6 10-minute segments in an hour). Many people don’t make $18 an hour so it would be worth it, since they go to work an hour for less. Even if the person makes more than $18/hr, it’s a matter of principle. I usually look at these wins my converting it to an hourly figure and then it makes me feel better about complaining.
I’ll close by saying that it’s ALWAYS worth getting what you think has been promised to you. Call that cable provider, cell phone company, credit card company, etc about that extra charge you don’t agree with. It could translate into $50 an hour or more, and that’s a nice reward!
Oh, and one more thing - being frugal and thoughtful about a $3 issue is great, but let’s not forget that leaving the store where you got your $3 score and stopping by the liquor store to buy a 30-pack or a carton of cigarettes doesn’t make sense to me. It’s all of nothing, as far as I’m concerned, and if you’re going to haggle for $3, don’t waste your $$$ on booze and cigs. That’s my perspective.
September 25th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
A lot of nay-sayers above……I agree with what Donna did. I do this at least once a month, embarrassing my wife or kids, and usually, in the end I explain to the manager and the employee that intentional or not, they do NOT have to honor it for the next customer since the FTC rule says that the first customer that finds the ‘WRONG PRICE, SALE, COUPON or WHATEVER’ has to be honored, but immediately post the ERROR, and it is done.
I’ve purchased MANY products for FREE, Unreal Prices, and from INCORRECT ADS using the philosophy above. Basically, when “Quality” is not maintained before printing/publishing/delivering and selling (and they get ample time between printing brochures, publishing brochures, delivering brochures/coupons) that they could POST this error BEFORE the 1st sale is made on Sunday morning (for a Sun to Sat sale event), at the front door and NOT HONOR Donnas or Kennys of the world.
Until these kinds of loop holes exist, I am going to take advantage of it. And, turn around and sell it on EBay (if I don’t need it). This has become a hobby, side-business and a thrill for me in my very little spare-time. I don’t need the income, but I definitely love SALES and COUPONS.
For those who don’t like it, don’t do it. For those who do not want a 4GB memory flash card for $6.99 (!) or $3.99 Cereal Boxes for $1 (bought 40 of them with 2 teenage kids who gobble it down FAST) etc.
Let me tell you that in the grand scheme of things, they will not go bankrupt with the 1st customer taking advantage of errors, and the 1st customer does not get rich by getting the super deal.
It’s all business my friends!
Kenny