Why I Fought to Save Three Bucks (and Why You Should Too)
Published on - August 7th, 2008 (by J.D. Roth) This guest post comes from Donna Freedman, a blogger at MSN Money’s Smart Spending blog. Donna is one of my favorite personal finance writers. This is a reprint (with permission) of one of her recent pieces.
On Friday I visited Office Depot for school backpacks at the killer price of $2.99. Along with other loss-leader school supplies, they’ll be donated to a local social services agency. At the checkout, I handed over a “20% off all backpacks” coupon from an Office Depot mailer. The cash register wouldn’t accept the coupon. “These are already on sale so the coupon won’t work,” the salesclerk said.
I noted, politely, that the coupon did not say “not good on sale-priced items.” The cashier tried again. No dice. “It’s not letting it go through,” she said, and waited. I got the distinct impression she wanted me to say, “Oh, that’s OK.” But I wasn’t going to say that, because my belief is that a store should honor its published offers.
She called a manager, who told me the coupon wasn’t intended for sale items. I again pointed out that nowhere on the coupon did it say that. This started off a 10-minute dance between manager and consumer over what would have been a $3 discount.
Before you write me off as an intractable miser, consider this: What happens when consumers do not insist that businesses keep their word?
All kinds of reasons
During our little discount minuet, the manager demanded to see the mailer from which I’d taken the ad, saying it would explain that the coupon was not good on sale items. I went out to my car and got the ad; it said no such thing.
The manager, whom I’ll call Nancy, tried several other tacks. She pored over the fine print in the store’s weekly ad — complaining it was hard to read because the doctor had dilated her eyes that morning — but nothing in the ad excluded coupons. She said that “corporate” never intended for coupons to be used with sale items, and that’s why the computer wouldn’t allow it — the computer is programmed by “corporate.”
If that’s the case, I suggested, then “not valid with sale items” ought to be written on the coupon.
She looked at it again, noting the phrase “we reserve the right to limit quantities.” I’d bought five, the limit noted in the weekly flier. Nancy said, “I’ll give you the coupon on one of them.” I replied that nowhere on the coupon does it say that it was good for just one item.
“It says ‘one-time use’, so I’ll let you have it for just the one.” I suggested that “one-time use” might actually mean that I couldn’t use the coupon again the next day.
Nancy said that when I signed up for the store rewards program, I would have gotten an e-mail explaining, among other things, why coupons couldn’t be used on sale items. I repeated, “Shouldn’t that be written on the coupon itself?”
A real headache
The manager said she’d send my “information” to corporate headquarters and have them explain why coupons can’t be used on sale items. First she asked for my driver’s license, which I would not have given, and then decided that just my rewards card would do. She wrote down the card number and told me that at $2.99, the store was losing money on the backpacks. Using a coupon made it worse.
I replied that I was familiar with the concept of a loss leader: you lose money on some items to get people into the store.
Finally the manager told the cashier to override the register and ring up the discount for all five backpacks. “I don’t want to spend any more time on this. I have a headache,” she said.
You and me both, Nancy. Confrontation is not easy for me. I simply wanted Office Depot to make good on its published promise.
Why you should care
Some of you are probably thinking, It’s only $3 — give it up, already. I don’t think that the amount matters. The company mailed me a flier full of discounts in the hope I would come to one of its stores. When I tried to use one of those discounts, employees decided that it shouldn’t apply to sales.
Suppose you saw a coupon good for 20% off all winter coats, but when you get to the store you’re told, “Oh, it’s not good on red coats.” Or imagine seeing a car ad, “20% off all Chevrolets,” but when you get to the dealership you’re told that it’s only good on four-door sedans.
There’s a term for this. It’s called bait and switch. Get the customer into the store and then change the terms.
What happened at Office Depot was not a bait and switch per se, but it still wasn’t good customer relations. Yes, I understand that the company is taking a hit pricing its backpacks at $2.99 and that an additional 60-cent discount hurts even more. But that’s a cost of doing business: Advertise something really cheaply and hope people buy enough other things to make the loss leader worthwhile.
Certainly any company is within its rights to limit coupon use on loss leaders. But if that’s what corporate wants, then corporate needs to be very clear, and it needs to do so on the coupon. I don’t want to rely on the personal interpretation of a cash register. Or a manager with a headache.
J.D.’s note: I’m proud of Donna for standing up for herself. It can seem ludicrous to fight bureaucracy for just a few bucks, but I make a point of doing it, too. (Read “I want my four dollars!” for a real-life example from the early days of Get Rich Slowly. I love that story.) Later today I’ll share another tale of fighting corporate madness. Photos by The Consumerist and mlcastle.
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Volunteer:
It is whining, and here is why.
The poster thinks she “deserved” the coupon discount.
No one deserves anything. anywhere.
Poster goes into the store and tries to buy the merchendise with a coupon. She is not being forced. She is using free will.
The store is selling the item. No force. Free will. Simple two party business transaction
there seems to be a disagreement over the price of the items. Fine. This is where the “whining” comes in.
If it were me, I would have simply said “i am willing to purchase the items for x price”
The cashier/manager, etc declines, which they did for 10 minutes, so I would have………….LEFT. without the merchandise and WITHOUT GIVING THEM ANY MONEY. Only I would have left 15 seconds after they said no.
Not because I cannopt stand up for myself, and not because I do not have principles, but because I do. I believe in actions, not words. This is a simple transaction that can be solved quickly… by NOT buying that stores wares.
Here is a test question to see if leaving or arguing is the right answer.
Lets say the poster can get her hands on another flyer/circular with that same coupon. Will she go into another Office Depot and do it again out of principle. In fact, if it is all about principle, shouldn’t all her supporters get ahold of that coupon and go into every store they can find, and all demand “truth in advertising”
Then everyone can argue for 10 minutes over principle. Somehow I have a feeling the poster will not try and use another coupon again. And likely other commenters won’t either.
What I have read them saying is they “won’t shop there again”
That is my point. If you really want to prove a point and stand on principle, don’t give them 10% less after arguing for 10 minutes, give them NOTHING, and WALK OUT IMMEDIATELY and give their competitor your money instead. That is principle.
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Good job. 10 minutes spent for the $3 discount is definitely worth it. Just think at an hourly rate, that would be equal to $18 for your time, which is way higher than the minimum wage and probably about as much as the manager is making, not to mention the time it took you to earn that money in the first place.
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I experienced something similar to this but I never got my money back. This happened to me the other day at Safeway. The sign said “Buy One, Get One Free”. Naturally, I picked up two. The other item said “10 for $10″. I picked up two, ten is too many. When I got home, I realized I paid full price for our all four items. I went back to let them know. The asst. mgr said, “There’s no sign up now. All you can do is bring them back and we’ll return it for you.” I insisted it wasn’t my fault that they didn’t take down their signs before their new sale began. She said, “you should have told me yesterday.” I said that I didn’t have time to itemize every single item at the counter while the next person wants to pay and leave as quickly as I do. She kept repeating all I could do is come back and return the items. In which I said, “Well, that’s great!? Waste more of time!” This happened to me at Lucky, once before, and the manager apologized for the inconvenience, refunded my money, and I was on my way. First of all, this Safeway is completely out of the way for me. Second, she basically was saying that I was lying. I told her I wouldn’t have wasted my time driving out here if I knew I was wrong. Unfortunately, I never got my $20 that I was cheated out of due to Safeway’s mistake!
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If I were the store manager I’d take the coupon, rip it in half, give you $3 from my wallet and tell you to get the hell out of my store.
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If you think this kind of thing isn’t worth your time, okay. It’s not worth your time and you can choose to let it go. However it’s hard to take seriously that kind of statement from someone who is using up their highly valuable time being rude to other posters on the web for free.
You think the person in front of you is holding you up over that money? Putting aside the question of how reasonable it is to blame other people for not accommodating your convenience at every turn, if you’re going to blame Donna for insisting on the 20% then you should assign equal blame to the workers for insisting on not giving the 20%. Donna could have walked away or the manager could have overtly refused and said take it or leave it.
Finally, I’m also confused by all this hand-wringing over being “difficult” for the workers in the store and saying that oh, it’s not them, it’s HQ – make HQ’s life difficult, not theirs! Why is being a courteous customer asking for someone to honor the company’s offers such a horrific imposition? They’re paid to do a job – provide service to customers. Donna asked them to do their jobs. Was her interaction with them a little harder than simply running items over a scanner and processing a credit card? Maybe, but so what?
Odds are good that every one of us will make it from now till the end of the year and never once deal with the employee who made the strategic decision they are enforcing. The Starbucks employee didn’t set the store hours, the waiter didn’t choose how to prepare our dinner, the mechanic didn’t pick the parts supplier, etc etc. But they are the public face of the company and the person we are interacting with in our dealings with them. Asking them to help us get what we want in exchange for our money is not only reasonable, it’s expected. After all, did you go into the Apple store and refuse to hand your money for that iPhone to anyone but Steve Jobs?
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I have largely encountered coupons and signage that clearly state, Not Valid on Sale Items. It’s an oversight on corporate’s Marketing if they do not include this disclaimer on coupon copy — and what is stated is what the store should stand behind. The consumer should be able to “stand her ground” so that 1) she can individually make her purchase as stated on the coupon and 2)the store Manager can report the problematic coupon copy to Corporate, if necessary. Neither the Manager nor the cashier should be penalized for a mistake made by its Marketing department (so I don’t “buy” the claims that the cashier will be penalized or the Manager will be docked somehow). It’s Corporate’s problem. It should not be the problem of the consumer.
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Two points as this discussion winds down:
1) Large retailers have significant legal budgets and do get the language of any contract vetted by the lawyers first. “One-time use” mean one use, not one article. Otherwise it would say “limit one item per customer.” If a store cannot get this straight, it is the store’s problem.
2) Large retailers are not to be pitied. They are neither good nor evil – they are merely amorphous blobs that exist for one single purpose: to get your money. They expend considerable funds and research into finding ways to make you part with your money, and part with more money than you were planning to. It takes a lot of effort to consciously be aware of those strategies at all times and to counteract them. I highly recommend the book “Why We Shop” by Paco Underhill to anybody on this forum who is interested in the strategies used by retailers. To that extent, it truly is an “us versus them”. If a retailer makes you feel relaxed and welcome, it is to get you to part with your money. If a supermarket has a bakery with the smell of fresh bread, it is to get you to part with your money. If sales associates are trained to approach you and provide personalized service, it is to get to to part with your money. Each and every one of these factors is pored over and consciously and analytically put into place. Loss-leaders are an analytical business decision based on the statistical reasoning that the majority of customers will not only buy the loss-leader but profitable products as well, a percentage of these profitable products being impulse buy items.
Considering the sheer information imbalance between large retailers and individual consumers, it is perfectly legitimate for a consumer to exploit a loophole.
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I wasn’t trying to be rude to Donna. I disagree with what she did and I think she went after the wrong people, but it’s her three bucks, she can do what she wants to. And I didn’t say or intend to imply that she was being an ass. I was merely pointing out that the other people involved in the situation *will likely* perceive her as an ass, even though she wasn’t rude. If I was forced by unclear rules regarding coupon use to choose between possibly being perceived as an ass and spending $3, I’d choose to spend $3 every time. Donna didn’t mind risking being perceived as an ass for $3. That is fine. I disagree, but it’s fine. To reiterate, I never called Donna an ass.
I don’t expect people to “accommodate my convenience at every turn.” But when someone in front of me in line does something that holds up the line, I do get irritated with them, even if I don’t think they’re being unreasonable. I bet most people do too. For that reason, I really, really, really don’t like being that person in the front of the line holding other people up, even if I’m right. I simply don’t like that much potential ill will being directed at me.
I place the blame for the situation entirely on Office Depot corporate. They screwed up, which led to headaches for both Donna and the store employees. It’s not fair that Donna was put into this situation. But, nevertheless, she was put into this situation, and I disagree with how she handled it. I place very little blame on the store employees because they were simply doing what corporate wants them to do. I’m not surprised at all that the employees chose to side initially with the people that write their paychecks over some customer who wants $3.
I’m overly concerned about making the cashier’s and manager’s life as easy and hassle free as possible because I have been both. What I took away from my experience in retail is that I should go out of my way to be exceptionally nice and easy to deal with for store employees. This includes not blaming them for things that aren’t their fault or doing things that will likely get them in trouble with their superiors, unless they are in fact being extraordinarily rude. It was not wrong at all for Donna to request clarification about the coupon situation. But once it became clear that the problem was with corporate, I would have either chosen to buy the backpacks, or leave them there, and then I would have written Office Depot an email. That way I get what I want (or I don’t, in which case I stop shopping at Office Depot), and I don’t have to risk getting the manager in trouble to get it.
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@The Beagle:
Agreed, large, morally neutral amorphous blobs are not to be pitied. The lack of pity and the Us vs Them mentality that is perfectly acceptable when directed at such blobs, however, is not acceptable when it is directed at the amorphous blob’s employees.
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Oooh this story both inspires me and makes me so mad – at the customer service lapse and store philosophies of the last few decades!
Bravo Donna! It truly is the principle. And in this case, because she does have access to widespread media, it is particularly beneficial for her to stand up for these principles AND write about them. It is my hope that the ‘higher ups’ will hear of this (if their publicity managers are doing their jobs or if they even care).
It is also an example, given the fear-based backlash on this story, of how the valiant act, the right act and the act that will help more people in the long run is not always the popular act in the beginning.
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I feel that as a finance writer, freedman should have known that, as is standard practice EVERYWHERE, coupons don’t work on sale priced items. In my opinion, she really can’t use the argument that she came to the store only because of the deal she thought she’d be getting. A smart shopper is suspicious of deals of this sort, and if they do choose to pursue them, they do so knowing their suspicions might well be true. Sure, she makes a valid point that only that information which is on the coupon applies, and in this case the corporation screwed up, but she really needs to loosen up. It’s not even that she lost three dollars, she just didn’t get to save three dollars. she might’ve been mugged on the way to the store or tripped and broken her leg; things happen, and not getting to save three dollars is nowhere near the worst of them.
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@UncleMidriff:
Nothing was directed against the employees. If the store policy is to to provide front-line employees practically no discretion or decision-making power, that should not be an argument for sucking things up merely to avoid offending someone making a low salary. Your argument reminds me of the “shut up or I’ll kill the bunny” technique from South Park.
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Lucas wrote: I feel that as a finance writer, freedman should have known that, as is standard practice EVERYWHERE, coupons don’t work on sale priced items.
Again, I feel it’s important to note, that this is incorrect. Be default, coupons are valid on sale price items unless expressly disallowed. I don’t like that people keep saying this because it’s wrong and will discourage people from trying to save money.
See my comment #136 above. My wife and I use coupons on sale items every week at the grocery store (Safeway, a national chain). It’s common practice for coupon clippers to combine coupons with sales. (There are entire sites devoted to this premise.)
Coupons can always be used with sales unless it is stated otherwise. That’s the default.
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Get a life! This isn’t about principle, or a company trying to lure people into a store with false promises, it’s about raking a bunch of poor working schlubs — the cashier making $8 an hour, the manager making $10 — over the coals for not having the training to easily override their automated cash registers. I’ve worked in the service industry, unlike most of you elitist assholes, and I know sometimes you have to apply Occam’s Razor in these situations and look for the simplest explanation. Overriding the registers’ programming is a pain in the ass, and the employees didn’t really know how to do it. By doing what they eventually did for your lousy F-ing $3 it probably creates a lot of work and confusion at the end of the day when the teller does her cash out and the manager does his end of day report.
Yes, the coupon should have said that it didn’t apply to items already on sale, but big deal — someone in head office, probably making $12 an hour and worried about losing their home to the subprime meltdown, made a mistake. Quit crying, and get on with your life.
I’ll bet Donna, the writer of this article makes mistakes herself sometimes, and doesn’t expect perfection of herself — so why does she expect it from all the poor schlubs who work the front lines of the service industry who routinely get f-ed over by idiots in head office who don’t understand their jobs either? My advice? Pay the extra $3, thank the teller, walk away, and write a letter to head office asking for a refund. Of course you don’t get to strut around like a preening, self-righteous, self-empowered douchebag like we all seem to enjoy doing these days every time the people serving us make mistakes, but it’s the right thing to do every time. We’re too quick jumping from annoyed to outraged to victimized in this society. Try focusing on the things that matter.
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@The Beagle:
You’re absolutely right; it isn’t an argument to suck things up “merely to avoid offending someone making a low salary,” but it is an argument to avoid offending someone making a low salary when the problem isn’t their fault and instead going after the people who actually are at fault, i.e., corporate.
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Ed #10: I am not sure I understand your point. Is the only correct/permitted/clever comment along thge lines of “wow! yeah! what a great article!”?
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i love reading this stuff. we’re one of the richest countries on earth and get outraged over 2 pennies…which is probably why we’re rich. having lived in poorer countries, i always found it funny that they would round the bill/invoice/etc down to something ‘close enough’ thus developing a sense of ‘we’re in this together’. corporations have their employees running scared and removed their understanding of how to build a customer base.
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I’m glad she stuck to her principles. Too many people today have NONE. All of you that say your time is worth more have no principle and probably sorry ethics too.
Corporate would take advantage of you if they could so you should do the same. That’s the way buisness works. It’s about being savvy and seeing opportunity when you see it.
There is no price on principle, it is priceless.
To those of you saying the battle is won and the war is lost….
It has nothing to do with that. Corporate makes that decision. Who is corporate? A faceless entity that doesn’t give a flying rats ass about you. Send you lame useless letter…then when they don’t reply what do you do then.
Nothing. Because you are spineless and don’t wanna look like an ass in front of others. Who cares what others think.
Stick to your principles at all times.
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Thank you! Now I can show this to my wife and let her know I am not the only one!
I argued with a CSR at a big name technology store for 30 minutes regarding a lie that I caught her in. Well, not only the lie, but the $20 behind the lie.
Basically it involved a “re-stocking” fee on a returned digital camera.
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Stores pull this kind of “tell you only part of what you need to know” thing all the time. One very common practice is to advertise a terrific price if you buy a ridiculous number of the same thing, usually 5 or 10 of them….$20 for 10 gallons of milk for example.
Interestingly, what they don’t tell you is that they have to sell these items at the stated price, even if you only buy one. Always have the cashier check first, but your one “10 for $5″ avocado should cost you $.50, your single “5 for $10″ box of cereal should cost you $2, and so forth. Try it sometime.
Cathy Sykes
moneytospare.net
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I was with you up until the “one time use” thing. That definitely means it’s good on one item (in this case being one backback) and one item only.
Otherwise, I agree that it should be clearly stated whether or not a coupon is valid on sale items or not.
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I hope Office Depot goes out of business or better yet, just files for bankruptcy protection. Yeah! That will teach them.
Can you imagine? They wouldn’t give this ridiculous, petty woman free back packs. The nerve! After all she had a coupon. I’m surprised she didn’t sue. Or maybe she will in the future. Maybe this battle she had with Office Depot caused her stress and hemrhoids.
I think that Donna is an out and out moron. A total waste of time and human life. Are you for real??? Have you nothing better to do than rip off companies. Have you seen the economy lately? If Office Depot goes out of business by selling products as a loss, consider yourself the nails in the coffin. What if everyone went to Office Depot and demanded all the back packs for free because you didn’t have the brain cells to correctly decipher a coupon. Coupons usually do not apply to sale items. If the retailer didn’t include that option on the ticket does that give you the right to be unethical and rob them blind???? Where are your morals, respect, common sense? Think about the company and it’s own bottom line? The jobs that are on the line at that store?
If I were the supervisor, I would have thrown her out of the building on her ass.
You are a scavenger and a bottom feeder. And JD should be ashamed of himself for even posting such dribble.
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I’m cool with her holding the company to its word, but I will also admit that she apparently has a lot more free time than I do. I would simply have chosen another store selling school supplies for all of my future purchases, and informed them of that fact on the way out. Sometimes that very thought will give a measure of insurance that the manager will have a change of heart. Not always, but sometimes.
Jerry
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@ alicia – perhaps you should get a job at Office Depot, because your extreme over-reactions would land OD with lawsuits which could put it out of business very quickly – something not likely to happen as the result of customers simply insisting on their legal rights. Did calling Donna a “moron” make you feel good? I wonder what to call someone who has made no effort to consider the facts, or understand the legal and ethical issues involved in this case. Oh and BTW, it’s “drivel”, not “dribble”.
Donna, the alarm bells usually start ringing very loud when people start saying “it’s not the money, it’s the principle”, but in this case, I applaud your actions, perseverance and courage 100%. Well done!
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@alicia: As people have commented again and again, coupons CAN be applied to sale items.
Its not illegal, unethical or ‘robbing them blind’. It is just making your money go further by being a smart shopper.
Not all people can be smart shoppers, I know that I can’t but I am grateful to people like Donna because they keep companies honest.
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I can see both sides of this issue, but I do think it’s ironic that Cool_Dude (#168) commented that the people who say their time is worth more than $3 have no “no principles and probably sorry ethics,” but also proceeded to say: “Corporate would take advantage of you if they could so you should do the same.” That kind of attitude pretty unethical to me.
I actually think Donna was mostly within her rights here (thought it’s not totally clear cut – the biggest weakness being the one-time use thing, which totally could mean on only one item), but I think it would be sleazy to take advantage of a corporation just because you can. Technically you can return anything you’ve ever bought anywhere to Nordstrom’s and they will take it back because it’s their policy, but to do so on an item you bought elsewhere would be unethical in my book.
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This actually happens to me very many times. Not that the employees of the store refuse a discount per se, but that they very often ignore that you are eligible for a discount; and they just assume that you are not. A typical example is with my grocery or pharmacy loyalty cards. At the register, many times, I have to search for my loyalty card and simply hand the cashiers my credit card first. When I pulled out my loyalty card, the cashiers would complain about having to do the register again. Or, they would tell me to go to customer service to re-do the receipt, which is a long process, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it makes people leave thinking “Only a few bucks.”
Also, many items are only eligible with a loyalty card, but are not clearly stated on the shelf. If you are first time shopper in such stores, and haven’t got the card yet, no cashier would remind you about that. Even when registration is open and easy, the cashiers wouldn’t tell you. If you don’t look at the receipt closely, you may assume that the discount was already taken care of while it wasn’t. I call this tricky marketing.
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Sometimes cashiers are super nice about coupons, too. I shop at Fred Meyer all the time and there are lots of coupons in their weekly circulars–for example it might be 10% off sporting goods this week, etc. I’ve had many occasions where the cashier said, “hey we’ve got a 10% off” and gave it to me without me having a coupon, or even asking about it. I got that 10% when I recently bought 4 camping chairs–and that 10% off was on top of them being on sale. And the cashier did it for me, I didn’t have a coupon.
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WOW! 178 comments and counting… This story really stirred people up.
I wanted to tell my own story where I fought with the bank over a penny.
I have my student loan come out of my bank account every Thursday. I’m also a zero dollar budgeter, meaning that there is no money in my account after all my bill payments and payments to ING clear.
One week the bank slipped up and took out my student loan payment on Wednesday. I called them and asked them what happened and to reverse the 5$ bounced fee, which they did no trouble. The problem came at the end of the month when I had an “unauthorized overdraft charge” of 0.01$. Instead of calling the student loan department (which I should have done in hindsight) I called the regular branch and you should have heard the tone in the woman’s voice when she found out I was asking about a penny.
Yes, I called my bank and took the 15 minutes to wait and argue and then wait on hold so that they could reverse 1 cent, purely on the principle of the fact that I had an agreement with the bank (that they take my student loan out on Thursday) and that they broke their agreement (by taking out the payment on Wednesday). Therefore I planned my life around this agreement and it was not my fault and I shouldn’t be held accountable for the charges that occurred by the breaking of this agreement.
The principle to me was more important than the 0.04$/hour I earned by making the fuss.
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I certainly think $3.00 is worth arguing for. That’s 8 oz. of Steak, a bottle of dish washing liquid, or a full meal from a “Dollar Menu.” Plus, I believe a coupon is like a miniature contract. If it’s not on the coupon, it does not apply. If the store tries to differ from the coupon, bait and switch laws may apply.
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I did something like this once and I still feel like an idiot.
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@Another Ed, I agree that a coupon *is* like a mini contract. The Company, and its Marketing department, made an offer. Donna accepted. Company takes back (reneged on) the offer, stating the mini contract was misrepresentative. The misrepresentative mini-contract coupons, however, are still in circulation to the consumer. What was Donna’s remedy? To take up the issue with the Company employees who stood directly before her, while the transaction was still viable.
By the employees and Company finally assenting to the “terms” of the mini contract, Company keeps its integrity.
As was stated here in at least one comment above, Donna helped keep Company honest.
That is a good thing.
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Why are so many people insisting that the customer, not the store, should have taken the position “it’s only $3, let it go”? Read Jess’s post – anybody believe that if your account were OVERdrawn one cent, that if you called the bank and said “dudes, it’s just a penny” that your bank would say, okay, we’ll let it go this time?
I understand the frustration about being stuck in line behind somebody who is trying to get a discount they are not entitled to. The solution for that is for the manager to open up another line and direct the remaining customers so they aren’t slowed up.
And anyone who really thinks $3 is nothing? Please feel free to send $3 to me directly, since you won’t miss it much.
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If I was that employee. I would be upset. I would just reach in my pocket and tell them here is your .60.
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A woman after my own heart……I would have done the same thing!!
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So at what point, do you get this corrected for the people who are so adamant that this isn’t worth it? Is it $10, or $50 or $100? Sometimes, it is just the feeling that you are getting screwed over by a big company(I feel that way with EXXON’s 113 billion profit this quarter- so I am walking more).
I bought something that was on a sale that started on a Friday- but I bought it on Sunday- and I was charged the full price. I went to customer service-because cashiers can’t correct based on the newspaper ad. The service manager told me he knew about the problem. So since Friday, in a high volume supermarket, an item on the front page of their ad had been ringing incorrectly-I didn’t say anything to him(like what does it take for your store to correct its registers?). I think once a manager knows and an overall store correction isn’t done – it may amount to consumer fraud. I don’t have time to get involved in this in a major way now- but I sometimes think that in retirement(which is not too far off), I might want to work with our state/county consumer protection office.
Overage- stores are not required to give overage on coupons. I had a $3 coupon for shampoo and the shampoo was on sale for $2.99. The coupon could not be rung as usual and the manager had to key it in for $2.99. I was thrilled to get free shampoo. So no one is required to give you more than the cost of the item based on a coupon.
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I know someone who shops RiteAid (since its not out of his way) specifically for free shampoos and soaps with coupons, or things that end up costing <$1 after MIR or coupons. He then brings them into work and sells them for $1 each. Its a ongoing joke since he can actually make money from things he is buying on sale.
Separately, always keep an eye out for what ‘weekly specials’ ring up as. I bought Goodfellas yesterday at Best Buy since it was advertised as $5. They mistakenly put the $5 ‘as-advertisted’ countertag over the 2-disc version of the movie, so I ‘unknownly’ picked up that 2-disc version. I knew it was going to ring up as $20 since it was a different SKU, but was ready to catch it. Sure enough, it rang as $20, and I was quick to call them on how they had a countertag in the aisle where the movie is normally located. The next-level cash register manager (not store manager), reluctantly fixed the price to $5 for the 2-disc rather, then commented about how the cashier should have checked the SKUs. I probably would have argued for the 2-disc if they would have pressed the issue.
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When I was making only $8/hr (before taxes), $3 was a big deal. In fact, that is about how much breakfast would have cost me if I bought a bagel & cream cheese.
I would not have spent so much time on the coupon though. I would have just not bought the item and let them lose the sale.
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Obviously, this woman doesn’t value her time very much. While I appreciate her trying to hold Office Depot to their word, it is people like this that make the wait times even longer. Personally in this case I would have forgotten about the discount because I would not have wanted to keep other customers waiting. I guess some people not only do not have a concept of their time, but a concept of others time as well.
Of course the manager should have just given the discount immediately, but to sit there and argue for 10+ minutes and make other people wait for 60 cents is ridiculous.
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“Why do posts like this always get people like Kevin commenting on them?”
@EG: We live in a free nation where everyone’s opinions should be respected. You are entitled to yours as am I.
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I gotta say, if I was the manager in this particular situation, I would have flat out said no way am I honoring this coupon. It’s OK for a business to say no. Most businesses don’t seem to realize that the customer is not always right. Say Home Depot loses her business, “I’ll never shop at this store again!”. So what? It’s a volume business where the individual doesn’t really matter, and you might say “think of the bad publicity!” So what? There will always be negative publicity concerning big box retailers and people writing blog posts about how much they suck (warranted or unwarranted) so why not add one more to the mix? Frankly, when I worked in retail, these were exactly the kinds of customers that cost the place the most money. If a business isn’t providing value to the customer, than they’re not a very good business. Then again, if the customer is not providing value to the business, they’re not a very good customer. I’d rather let my competitors deal with BS like this in the future. Home Depot is better off without you as a customer.
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I LOVED that Story! Good for you getting your Three bucks. This whole problem exist b/cause BIG companies don’t properly train their People. They have NO Idea how to treat people. See the above comment…
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Good for you! I always go thru this at markets or retail stores especially since I have to purchase more than one of the same items since I have three sons. I always stick to my guns. One dollar or three dollars in the long run it adds up. I also feel that these stores advertise and send coupons just to get us the retailers in their stores for what to give us this crap.
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I’ve decided to reply because I’m feeling a little more blunt than usual.
Yes, you can get away with just about anything in retail if you are belligerent enough. As someone who as been on the manager side of the equation, I would have concluded pretty quickly that this is the sort of penny-pinching asshole I would prefer to escort off the premises and ban from the store, but would instead try to placate just enough to make her shut up and go away so I can keep the actually-paying customers around her from abandoning ship.
I will agree with the writer this far: Someone in the corporate office of Office Depot was sloppy as hell in sending out a coupon for backpacks without the appropriate disclaimers when they were also running a loss-leader cheap-as-hell backpack sale. That person should pay!
The problem is, that person didn’t pay and that person won’t pay. Instead, inspired by insipid articles like this one, the front-end cashiers and so-called “managers” will bear the brunt of this person’s oversight and, like the people in this story, do their best to work out and explain the inconsistency that their corporate overlords have created.
I have been in “Nancy”‘s position and my first reaction to the article-writer’s complaint is that everyone should know by now that most, if not all, coupons and sales are intended to be separate from each other. Most of them explicitly state somewhere on the coupon or the ad paper that this offer cannot be combined with any other. I personally consider it to be an egregiously stupid oversight if it doesn’t and, if we can take this author at her word, this is the case here.
If I were the cashier in this situation, I would have followed exactly the same steps that this one did. Try the coupon. It didn’t work. Try to explain that coupons normally can’t be combined with loss-leader sales (or any other sales, for that matter, but that’s not important now). Try again. Try to explain that people who work in the store have no control over what coupons are sent out, what they say, or how the cash registers handle them. Then, if none of that had worked to mollify the problem, call for the manager on duty.
As the manager on duty, I would have also followed the exact same steps as the manager in this story. Find out the situation from the cashier. Try to explain that retailers normally do not allow sales offers to be combined. Look at the coupon itself to determine if the normally-present “This offer cannot be combined with any other offer” is present. No? Then it must be on the ad. It’s not? It must not be prominent, then. Maybe it’s in the unreasonably miniature print (#&$^% bastards!). It’s not there either?(#^%*#*#)
At that point, I would have given in. I would have been terribly pissed off, not at the customer, but at the corporate bastard who couldn’t even bother to use a *#&$#&&$ template to create this *#^#*#% coupon that would include the normal legalese that would make my life so much easier at this point. Instead, I’ve now got some belligerent bitch in front of me insisting that I sell her four backpacks for loss-leader amounts, and throw one in for free because someone I will never meet didn’t bother to spell out what I consider to be a normally-reasonable assumption.
So, great! You bullied a store manager into giving you a free backpack. Good for you! You took advantage of some missing bit of legalese to harangue a tired, hard-working woman out something you would have otherwise had to underpay $3 for. Fantastic!
People like you are the only ones I ever hated in retail. Most people are reasonable, but there’s always someone who, like you, seems to think that they’re special; that some clever bit of combining this sale with that sale and this coupon with that coupon means that they don’t actually have to *pay* for what they want to buy. And who get all indignant when you try to explain that there’s even the slightest possibility that they’ve just maybe misunderstood some aspect of the situation. Bastard!
And, frankly, I’ve been poor. I know what it’s like to have to choose between paying the electric bill and buying a loaf of bread. I am not insensitive to the plight of someone trying to stretch a buck, but this particular article strikes me as someone trying to steal an apple and then complaining that the company never put up a sign up saying that she shouldn’t steal apples from them. So, here’s a clue to all of you: Don’t steal apples! I’ll let you work out the rest from there.
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Having calmed down and read a few more of the other comments, I would like to add a few things to my previous rant.
“One time use”: I would categorically refuse to argue that “one time use” means one backpack in this case. “One time use” generally means using the coupon for one transaction. If the coupon or ad does not specifically say “Limit 1″ but does say “ALL backpacks”, then I have to conclude that “One time use” means as many backpacks as you care to buy at one time. If, on the other hand, the coupon says X amount off of “ANY backpack”, then I would assume that it is meant to apply to just one backpack and not one hundred. And, if you take the view that the coupon is a “mini contract” (see, for example, “Another Ed” #180), then “We reserve the right to limit quantities” (which this coupon *DID* say) could just as easily mean limiting the quantities to 1 as to 5 or 10 or 100. Even so, since I could easily limit the damage to letting Donna steal only one backpack instead of all five while still making her feel as if she’s won some sort of bullshit victory over me, I would have had no incentive to pull out that tactic.
Wait! (you might be saying) *Stealing* a backpack? *Limiting* the damage? Yes, if the manager (“Nancy”) was at all bright, she gave Donna one backpack for free and left the other four super-cheap backpacks alone. Donna gets her $3 off and the store only sees one backpack on the bottom line as having left the store without payment of any kind. If she was stupid, Nancy rang up five backpacks for $2.39 and lost every bit of reimbursement and/or credit from both the loss-leader sale and the coupon that her store would normally receive. Her store looks that much worse in comparison to other stores in the company and the people who work there end up suffering when it comes time to work out things like raises or bonuses at the end of the fiscal year. Yes, Donna got a free backpack, but she also made it that much harder for the logistics manager in the back room to get her minuscule raise and buy her own kid a backpack, when you get right down to it.
The people who are so happy to proclaim that “It is important for consumers to speak up and not let companies get away with practices like this,” don’t seem to realize that by making these arguments in the store means that they are *NOT* speaking up to “The Company” but are, instead, speaking up to (and taking advantage of) the low-level, front-end people who are, most likely, just as hard-pressed for cash as you are. And they’re the ones you end up hurting as a result. You want to hurt “The Company”? Write a letter! Get a lawyer! Get the media involved! But don’t harass the front-end cashier and the store manager who are just trying to make a living, same as you!
And I want to make it clear as well that this particular front-end cashier and this particular manager were almost certainly *NOT* out to deceive or defraud anyone. They were most likely (like Donna) just trying to protect their own bottom line and (unlike Donna) lost in this case.
Finally, I would like to address Donna directly for a moment. You say that you are “familiar with the concept of a loss leader: you lose money on some items to get people into the store.” At the same time, you point out that you were only buying these loss-leader backpacks “Along with other loss-leader school supplies.” Not once do you mention buying anything that is not a loss-leader item and that is probably the biggest reason that the store employees balked at using a coupon on top of the already-ridiculous savings you were already enjoying. FYI, the concept of a loss-leader is not to “get people into the store,” it is to get enough people into the store who will then buy enough non-loss-leader items to make up the difference. If that doesn’t happen, the store loses and the people who work at the store lose as well. I can say from experience that it really hurts to watch person after person come in and buy nothing but loss-leader items and resist any efforts to suggest anything that might make up the smallest bit of difference, so that when someone like you, Donna, comes in with a poorly-written coupon and a unreasonable sense of entitlement, I, as the manager on duty, am most likely at the end of my proverbial rope. I don’t care that “they’ll be donated to a local social services agency” because I’ve already heard eighteen other hard-luck/great-cause pitches today alone. In at least one store I’ve worked at, I would have also already dealt with three juvenile delinquents who were trying to steal the same backpacks fair-and-square instead of producing some random coupon and trying to argue that it’s a “mini-contract”. Throughout the week, I would have dealt with at least twenty people trying to use “OfficeMax” coupons and threatening to take their business to “Office Depot” if I don’t comply with their wishes. In one store, I had an inordinate number of people who seemed to think that buying two things meant they should get a “bulk discount” or that telling me how they “buy a lot of stuff here” entitled them to some sort of special treatment. Okay, news flash: If you have to *tell* me how much you buy from me, then you’re not buying enough to make me notice! Get over it! If all you’re buying is the ultra-cheap, loss-leader stuff, I would much rather spend my time working with a customer who is making me money than spending any amount of energy on someone like you who is stealing money from me and being pissed off about it to boot!
The only good thing to come out of this whole conversation for me is the realization of how passionate I get when it comes to protecting “my” store and “my” employees. It makes me want to go back into retail. (But not, I have to say, at another big-box, no-control kind of place like Office Depot.)
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I continue to not understand how courteously asking the front-line employees to honor the company’s published offers is bullying or harassing them. They’re paid to be there and do a job, and sometimes that job involves more than simply pulling the trigger on the scanning gun and swiping a credit card.
It is possible to treat someone with courtesy and respect while requesting they do something different, give something another look, or call a supervisor to fix a perceived problem. You’re free to engage in all the condemnation and hatred you like, but that doesn’t make it an absolute truth.
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You’re right, Don. There is nothing wrong with trying to use a coupon and then, when that coupon doesn’t work as you expect it to, courteously inquiring as to why.
But to “stand your ground” until you get what’s yours from the front-line employees even though they’re not the ones who screwed up, even though doing so won’t at all affect the people who *did* screw up, even though doing so *will* negatively affect the front-line employees, and then blogging about how you’ve struck a blow for consumers everywhere against corporate America is a bit… *irritating.*
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what boggles my mind about this is that this is actually considered blog-worthy. honestly, i just wasted 10 minutes of my time reading this and the comments. you owe ME $3, Donna.
oh but wait, i *chose* to read this post and waste my time? well, you *chose* to visit that particular store. buy the backpacks, or leave. don’t waste time and then post about a non-story.
corporations have no obligation to you. a store circular or a coupon are not contracts. they are not obligated to follow through with anything they say. if you have problem with it, take it up with the corporate office, a lawyer, or your state senator. or go buy your backpacks elsewhere.
my remaining question – if the manager would not have budged, would you have foregone the backpacks and not made the donation? there’s the true principle of the story.
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My perspective is that even though $3 isn’t a lot of money, it is certainly worth fighting for. If it takes 10 minutes to get a $3 win, that translates into $18 an hour ($3 x 6 10-minute segments in an hour). Many people don’t make $18 an hour so it would be worth it, since they go to work an hour for less. Even if the person makes more than $18/hr, it’s a matter of principle. I usually look at these wins my converting it to an hourly figure and then it makes me feel better about complaining.
I’ll close by saying that it’s ALWAYS worth getting what you think has been promised to you. Call that cable provider, cell phone company, credit card company, etc about that extra charge you don’t agree with. It could translate into $50 an hour or more, and that’s a nice reward!
Oh, and one more thing – being frugal and thoughtful about a $3 issue is great, but let’s not forget that leaving the store where you got your $3 score and stopping by the liquor store to buy a 30-pack or a carton of cigarettes doesn’t make sense to me. It’s all of nothing, as far as I’m concerned, and if you’re going to haggle for $3, don’t waste your $$$ on booze and cigs. That’s my perspective.
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A lot of nay-sayers above……I agree with what Donna did. I do this at least once a month, embarrassing my wife or kids, and usually, in the end I explain to the manager and the employee that intentional or not, they do NOT have to honor it for the next customer since the FTC rule says that the first customer that finds the ‘WRONG PRICE, SALE, COUPON or WHATEVER’ has to be honored, but immediately post the ERROR, and it is done.
I’ve purchased MANY products for FREE, Unreal Prices, and from INCORRECT ADS using the philosophy above. Basically, when “Quality” is not maintained before printing/publishing/delivering and selling (and they get ample time between printing brochures, publishing brochures, delivering brochures/coupons) that they could POST this error BEFORE the 1st sale is made on Sunday morning (for a Sun to Sat sale event), at the front door and NOT HONOR Donnas or Kennys of the world.
Until these kinds of loop holes exist, I am going to take advantage of it. And, turn around and sell it on EBay (if I don’t need it). This has become a hobby, side-business and a thrill for me in my very little spare-time. I don’t need the income, but I definitely love SALES and COUPONS.
For those who don’t like it, don’t do it. For those who do not want a 4GB memory flash card for $6.99 (!) or $3.99 Cereal Boxes for $1 (bought 40 of them with 2 teenage kids who gobble it down FAST) etc.
Let me tell you that in the grand scheme of things, they will not go bankrupt with the 1st customer taking advantage of errors, and the 1st customer does not get rich by getting the super deal.
It’s all business my friends!
Kenny
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