Could Tithing Lead Some Americans to Lose Their Homes? Print
Sunday, 28th September 2008 (by J.D.)This article is about Choices, House and Home, News
Last week, USA Today featured an article on Christians who continue to tithe even as they face foreclosure.
Tithing is the practice of donating 10% of your gross income to your church. It’s not a common practice (only 5% of American adults tithe), but it’s important to those who choose to do so. It’s a component not just of Christianity, but other religions as well.
But what happens when tithing interferes with your ability to pay the mortgage? The USA Today article explores this conflict.
“I’ve had home owners who face foreclosure sitting in front of me saying, ‘I’ll do anything, anything to keep my home,” said Ozell Brooklin, director of Acorn Housing in Atlanta, a nonprofit which offers foreclosure counseling.
“But after we’ve gone through their monthly expenses and the only thing left to cut is their tithe, they say ‘I guess this home is not for me’ and they walk away,” he said.
The article discusses just how important this conviction is for some people, and how they’re willing to sacrifice their homes in order to continue tithing. “To stay current on the $500 monthly mortgage, [one woman] was faced with giving up a tithe to her local evangelical church of around $200 a month. Instead, she let the property go into foreclosure.”
For many people, tithing is the most important part of their budget. Even before the age-old admonition to “pay yourself first” (which means to set money aside into savings before paying your bills), these folks donate money to church or charity. There’s nothing wrong with this, but it can lead to financial decisions that most people never face.
But is tithing really the reason some people face foreclosure? Or is the financial distress a symptom of deeper problems?
Tithing is another reminder that financial decisions aren’t all about the numbers. Our personal convictions affect our choices. I frequently say that money is more about mind than it is about math; our decisions are influenced more by our psychology and emotions than they are by the arithmetic of the situation. But sometimes our financial decisions are also subject to other forces, such as religious beliefs and personal convictions.
Note: Get Rich Slowly does not take a stand on religious or political issues. I’m presenting this topic for discussion because I think it’s fascinating, not because I want to promote or denigrate any particular point of view. Although I don’t tithe to church or charity, I respect and admire those who do. Please be considerate in the comments.

RSS Feeds
Facebook
Twitter

September 28th, 2008 at 5:16 am
I think that it is incredibly sad that, in this country, as rich as we are, that more people don’t give. My goal is to get up to giving 10% of my income to charity and In my opinion, if you don’t give, you don’t get it. What is life, if your not sharing your blessings? Why live, if its just about collecting the most money or toys? An important part of letting the importance of money go is to give freely.
On the other hand, the tithe issue with church, is likely some people thinking that somehow God will think less of them (to put it a nice way) or something like that. This is not biblically supported. It would be perfectly ok for someone to temporarily give up tithing to save a house, etc. Unfortunately some may be doing this because of group pressure too, especially if you go to a smaller church.
September 28th, 2008 at 5:36 am
I’d rather have a roof over my head, than tithe. I don’t see how it’s part of any deities plan to have it’s followers destitute.
I don’t tithe, but I do make charitable donations. If my car is broken, I’ll spend the money I’d normally spend on donations on getting the car fixed. If I can’t get to a paying job to earn some money, the charity is going to be hurt more in the long term.
September 28th, 2008 at 5:42 am
Agreed Solomon. I wonder if these folks consider the damage they are doing to the overall economy, and more directly to their neighbors when they decide to default on their obligations. There’s certainly nothing wrong with giving, but you also have to question an institution that would continue to accept donations from people who are clearly overextended.
September 28th, 2008 at 5:44 am
Biblically speaking, the entire point of tithing is to show the Lord that we trust Him to care for us by putting our money where our mouth is, so to speak. A very large portion of the Bible deals with monetary issues, because God knew that money would be a sensitive topic with us.
Biblically, it makes sense to continue tithing, no matter what else happens to you financially (assuming, of course, that a person is a Christian and follows Biblical teachings). It’s very possible that God is using a financial situation to test a person’s faithfulness and willingness to trust Him, even to the point of losing a house. He promises to provide for our needs, but He doesn’t say he’ll salvage our pride in the process. In fact, His goal is completely the opposite.
Tithing is not necessarily 10% - that was Old-Testament. Under the New Testament, each person should give as we feel that God is leading us to give.
God will not be mocked. BUT tithing is the ONLY place in the Bible where God calls us to test Him. Malachi 3:10 says “‘Test me in this,’ says the LORD Almighty, ‘and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.’” This does not guarantee financial success - it is not a “Health and Wealth” Doctrine. However, there are many other ways that God can bless us (good health, close family ties, peace, contentment, and thousands of other things).
Tim, God will not love us any less if we choose not to give to the church, but He will hold us accountable for not doing what He asked us to do.
One last point that is often misquoted scripture - it is not “wrong” to be financially successful. MONEY is not the root of evil. 1 Timothy 6:10 says, “For the LOVE of money is a root of ALL KINDS of evil.” (emphasis mine) So, it may be true that God blesses people with large financial resources, but some of that is contingent on their willingness to trust Him financially even when times get tough.
September 28th, 2008 at 5:47 am
I also find it strange that only 5% tithe, since I know so many that do. Thinking that god will think less of you or a church exerting pressure is simply bad theology. Every church I have ever attended had a ministry in place to help people going through messes like that- giving them the whole gambit of money, financial advice, food, even professional services to get them through. Part of it, though is being honest with your community to let them know you need help. I wonder if people that give a lot have a harder time taking charity. That’s a pride issue I guess.
September 28th, 2008 at 5:52 am
When I was having tough times, I found alternate ways of tithing. I did things for my community, helped low-income children, etc. That was my way of giving to God. I think it was actually more effective than giving money to a church would have been.
September 28th, 2008 at 5:55 am
Religious leaders aught to step in and advise their members to stop tithing temporarily until they get their finances in order. Certainly the church or at least the minister or reverend aught to know the situation of the congregation.
This tithing blindly like an imbecile is terrible because these people are literally led to believe that by tithing they’ll get back the blessings of “the lord” a thousand fold. How can I say this? What evidence do I have?
My grandmother. She’s always telling us about how she gave this (insert dollar amount here), and then it came back later that week, that month, that year by (insert a random multiplier). She literally believes that “god” grants her financial success based on her giving. It’s so sad. But when she looks at aunts and uncles in the family who’ve given and given and given and yet wind up in really awful financial shape, she cannot attribute that to “god”. No no no. It’s the work of the “devil”. I am seriously not making this up.
In my family we donate to UNICEF. I further donate whenever there is a cause I deem worthy. But I know also that when I am down and out it’s time to stop donating and start plugging the old financial seep holes and cracked pipes to keep the monetary house from flooding.
I think if you let personal convictions send you into foreclosure you damn well deserve that foreclosure. Period.
September 28th, 2008 at 6:26 am
Couldn’t agree more with Sammy, if you’re gonna loose your home and tithing is the only thing you have left to cut back you should do it, God doesn’t wanna you to be homeless. We must remember there is one more way to tithe: with our TIME. Help someone out to repair their home, impart some free classes to the children of your community, start a church choir or book reading club! And as Sammy said that would be more effective.
September 28th, 2008 at 6:40 am
I find it pretty interesting that people who are faithful tithers have problems with losing their homes. I agree with the idea of tithing completely, but I think that somewhere in there someone’s missing the point. The church is supposed to help people in need, so if members of their community are in trouble, the people of the church should be helping. I’m sure there are lots of individual situations with lots of different issues involved, but if a person is a member of a church community to the point that they are not just showing up but also giving money I believe that they should be included as a member of the community on the receiving end of assistance. Great discussion.
September 28th, 2008 at 6:41 am
I used to attend a church that strongly encouraged a strict 10% tithing; however, in return, if you found yourself in financial distress, the church’s deacons would provide you with financial counseling and assistance with necessary expenses like housing and food (funded by other church members’ tithes). I always thought that was a nice return to a New Testament-like “let’s all take care of each other” mindset.
September 28th, 2008 at 6:45 am
If people wouldn’t buy the MAXIMUM amount of house they can possibly afford, they would have more wiggle room when things happen. Buy a house that is a little LESS than you can afford. Same for a car. That’s my philosophy.
September 28th, 2008 at 6:57 am
Tithing is such a sensitive subject among many Christians. Many who tithe do not give the 10% the Lord asks. Others tithe with a grudging heart.
For my family, we are only stewards of the resources God has blessed us with, no matter how small or large. To return 10% of those blessings to the Lord’s work is not a suggestion, but a commandment and we should do so with joy in our hearts as that money will be used to benefit those who are much less fortunate.
Without fail, and even when our tithing funds where nearly all the money we had, by giving with a heart of gratitude and generosity, the Lord has never ceased to provide my family’s needs. Granted, we may not own our home and we certainly do not have the nicest things, but as Christians, we are to store up our treasures in Heaven, not here on earth.
What benefit will money and worldly possessions be if we are not willing to follow our Lord’s commandments and serve him in all our affairs? For myself, when I stand in front of my maker, I want to know in my heart that I did my very best to serve the Lord, even though I fall short on a daily basis.
Even if I am wrong in my beliefs and there turns out to be nothing after death, then the legacy of helping those who were less fortunate that I want to leave behind is far more valuable than worldly possessions or having a big house that I honestly don’t need.
IMHO, what Christians should be asking themselves regarding tithing is, “Do I really need the worldly possessions or do I need to store up my treasures in Heaven?” Besides, if many Christians were honest with themselves, they have the 10% available, they just choose to spend it on other things like gaming consoles, take-out, clothes shopping and vacations. If we are to serve the Lord, we must be willing to sacrifice these worldly pleasures and give with a joyful heart.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:01 am
I belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly referred to as Mormons) and it’s part of our doctrine to not only tithe 10% but to fast once a month and make offerings to feed the poor using the money we would have spent on three meals.
And it’s not optional. It’s God’s commandment. He gives us all we have, and asks that we give back 10% of it to the Church specifically for its work, not simply to charities as we see fit.
For some of us, God’s law is way more important than a house we can not otherwise afford. I’d rather find a cheap rental than not give back to God what He’s given me.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:02 am
First off, kudos J.D. for opening a topic so neutrally. I can’t see many people referring to this article without taking a hardline stance one way or the other. Though I’m strongly opinionated on this matter, I’ll do my best to follow suit:
10% of gross is an enormous part of your income. This is pre-tax– after federal and state taxes, payroll deductions for health insurance, etc, 10% of your gross can easily be 20% of your take-home pay.
When a bank approves you for a loan, they (should) look at your entire financial situation to make the decision. Obviously, they’ve made some recent poor decisions, but it seems that both the lender and the borrower have been working together to try to loan as much money as possible.
With a consistently tithing borrower, it’s unlikely that the lender knows about this expense, and the borrower is probably not going to disclose more information to lessen their chance of approval.
As everyone was operating on razor-thin approvals as it is, I would imagine that expenses like this (I’m sure there are others) that don’t easily show up on a credit report can increase the likelihood that someone is approved for a loan they can’t afford down the road.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:02 am
That chart you linked is interesting, JD. I’m a cradle Catholic but have never been to a church which mentioned 10% (or any percentage). Maybe it’s a US thing, trying to compete with the Protestants and their tithes.
If you’re giving 10% in good times to your church as opposed to a charity, the whole point is for it to be available in terms of whatever financial help and advice they give when you need it, right? I hope those people are at least asking.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:02 am
Damsel makes a good point. If you think your financial difficulties are a test from God, which you would fail if you fail to tithe, it’s more understandable that you would continue. Like most of the responders, I try to give generously both in time and money. When things get tight,though, the money part of my donation dries up until I become more solvent.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:13 am
I know one couple who was going through a financial crisis and was facing the option of either reducing their tithe or let themselves fall behind on the bills, rent, etc. After much prayer and consulting with others, they decided to reduce their tithe but increase the time they were spending volunteering and helping out the church. This way, they were still showing respect to God and the church, but also respecting the people and the community around them by not falling behind on bills or going onto public assistance. Once the crisis passed, they increased their giving back to the previous level.
I think this was a good solution to the problem. Yes, not giving to God/charity/deity of your choice isn’t a good thing; but not fulfilling your obligations to others isn’t a good thing either.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:14 am
Great comments so far, everyone. Thank you for sharing and for staying on topic.Tim gets at an interesting point with the very first comment:
I think that it is incredibly sad that, in this country, as rich as we are, that more people don’t give. My goal is to get up to giving 10% of my income to charity and In my opinion, if you don’t give, you don’t get it. What is life, if your not sharing your blessings? Why live, if its just about collecting the most money or toys? An important part of letting the importance of money go is to give freely.
I’ll be honest: I do not tithe to church or charity. I feel guilty about this. And yet I don’t. It’s something I feel I should do, and yet I’m so incredibly protective of what I have. My rationale is always: “Once I take care of myself, I’ll take care of other people.” Yet what do I mean by “taking care of myself”? I don’t know.
Sometimes I think “once I’ve saved X, then I’ll start sharing my wealth”, but X seems to be a moving target.
Anyhow, this is an issue I wrestle with, and it’s something I have to work out for myself…
I look forward to further interesting (and civil!) comments on this topic…
September 28th, 2008 at 7:15 am
I agree with much that has been said. If you strongly believe in tithing, you need to be cautious in taking on other obligations. If you are in need, you need to speak with your local pastor.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:16 am
She should have at least talked to her congregation and explained the situation. I’m sure they would’ve tried to help her with the house.
The bible spoke of helping those in need within the congregation financially, so he one with little does not have too little. (2 Corithians 8:12-15) It’s about being balanced. You should be able to turn to your congregation f you are having a hard time putting a roof over your head.
“To stay current on the $500 monthly mortgage, [one woman] was faced with giving up a tithe to her local evangelical church of around $200 a month. Instead, she let the property go into foreclosure.”
Does this mean she had $2000 in income a month? Was she carrying a big amount of debt or maybe medical bills? I have no idea.
I feel like not being able to pay your mortgage vs tithing is a money management problem. It doesn’t have to be an either or situation. If she wanted to do both, maybe increasing her income would help.
Good topic JD!
September 28th, 2008 at 7:17 am
I find it interesting that people that make the least often give the highest percentage of their incomes to charity (http://como.typepad.com/community_mobilization/2005/12/charitable_givi.html) . DH and I have always given generously (even when we didn’t make much) and each year we increase it by .5%. We don’t donate to a church, we give to an organization that provides education to poor children in other countries.
If these people can’t afford their homes and their tithes, they like most Americans probably bought too much house, or they’re wasting their money elswhere. I think that tithing was one way God wants to teach us about the value of budgeting your money, if you set aside 10% for God then the rest will be sufficient.
I don’t necessarily agree that “your financial difficulties are a test from God” most often their a result of your own stupidity and lack of restraint. I’m sure most people have many places to cut back rather than tithing (cellphones, cable, eating expensive pre-packaged foods, driving here there & everywhere, dollar store crap, etc.). We are the richest people in the world, even the poor in this country are very wealthy by worldly standards, if we can’t give to help others than where does that leave us?
September 28th, 2008 at 7:25 am
I faithfully tithe 10% of gross every month, and yet, I am also aware of God’s admonition against borrowing money. The lady who let the bank foreclose her house showed integrity in one commandment (tithe) and showed duplicity in another (paying your obligations). God also tells us to not cheat, steal, or lie. Failing to pay a debt is the same as cheating, stealing, or lying.
I am not trying to judge this lady. She found herself in a tough situation. However, I don’t think its a good practice to be “good” in one area and “bad” in another.
If I were her, I would temporarily suspend tithing, work to sell the house (including a short sale if necessary), pray for guidance on how to avoid stupid financial decisions in the future, and then live like no one else so that I can tithe like no one else.
Finally, when people come to me for advice on how to get out of debt, I have no problem recommending the partial suspension of tithe for the 10-12 months it would take to finish the debt snowball. This recommendation is based on the principle that having huge amounts of credit card debt while faithfully tithing is the same as borrowing money to tithe to the church. The Bible does not say that you should borrow money money to give money. However, I only recommend the suspension of tithe when they’ve cut EVERYTHING else out and are truly living on rice and beans.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:28 am
This is the first time I read a post about this and I must congratulate you for doing such a job, without any bias. I did not regret when I subscribe to you.
Anyway, there are many kinds of Christians and this tithing issue has been an issue for a lot of debates, for centuries I guess.
But the point is if you believe in something, go for it. If you think it’s right then do it. Save money for it and consider it as a tax, or deduct it automatically even before payday.
Just my 2 cents.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:36 am
i thought that god also helped those who helped themselves. giving up your home (which, at $500/mo is probably not extravagant- i can’t get a 1br apartment for that) willingly and choosing to instead rely on the support of others temporarily does not strike me as the most responsible decision for yourself or your community support network.
what if health insurance was on the chopping block? accidents and illnesses happen to good people every day.
i’m really curious because i can’t comprehend a mandated tithe. at what point do your own financial obligations and protecting your family come first? when you can’t afford to eat?
September 28th, 2008 at 7:40 am
I do not believe choosing to pay tithes despite going through tough economic times is a contributing factor to the problem of people losing their homes.
I also do not tithe, and I used to feel guilty about it. I am going through some tough times financially (key point, “going through” and not “in”) but I don’t believe it’s because I’m being punished for not tithing. If I’m being punished for anything, it’s for making bad financial decisions and poor planning, lessons I’m learning the hard way. Through this current economic crisis, both personal and with the nation as a whole, I have re-learned the importance of not becoming attached to material posessions and not falling in that trap of “keeping up with the Joneses”.
Since I value my time much more than my money now, I get more out of spending an hour or two a week with my kids at the SPCA, or other worthy local charity, than dropping a few bucks in a bucket once a month.
I admire those whose moral and personal convictions are stronger than external forces such as the economy and continue to give.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:55 am
I also feel that you have to recognize that the mortgage one signs up for is an obligation too. What good is it for someone to tithe and then go back on their word (contract)?
We give by choice and include it in our budget. I agree with many that money is just one way to give. Time is a great resource and many charities would appreciate it.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:06 am
at what point do your own financial obligations and protecting your family come first? when you can’t afford to eat?
I am a person who pays a 10% tithing. I believe that doing so IS protecting my family. It’s giving them God’s protection, although I get that this is a concept that not all will share or agree with. Still, it’s my choice and an important one in my life.
The flip side of this is that I belong to a religion with a huge welfare program because of our tithing program. If I can’t feed my family, my church will. If we can’t buy groceries, my church has welfare centers around the country that will give me the food we need. If I can’t pay my rent/mortgage, the church will do so (for quite a long time too - as people taking advantage of this is a real problem).
I pay my tithe for spiritual reasons. But because I do, we (as a religion) are able to take care of own and do a great deal for people not of our faith.
Again, this is not why I pay. That choice is between God and I. But it does have a practical side as well.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:16 am
JD, you say, “My rationale is always: “Once I take care of myself, I’ll take care of other people.” Yet what do I mean by “taking care of myself”? I don’t know. Sometimes I think “once I’ve saved X, then I’ll start sharing my wealth”, but X seems to be a moving target. ”
I know an awful lot of sad, lonely seniors who waited to have children until they could afford them (citing the magazines estimates of cost per child) and ended up waiting too long. X is indeed a moving target. Putting off living until X arrives is a hazardous practice.
There are joys beyond the financial in giving with a cheerful heart. Tithing or giving to charity won’t get you into heaven, but it will make your life here much more rich!
God doesn’t need my 10%. He already owns it all. He asks me to return 10% to Him to teach me something.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:21 am
What a fitting subject for a Sunday!
I too, am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Like Emily C, above).
Although Tithing is a commandment, and that is one of the reasons I pay my tithing, it is not the primary reason. For my entire life, I have faithfully paid my tithing. I have done so because of the many times that I have been in poor conditions, and thought I wouldn’t be able to make ends meet, yet have somehow been able to do so… and then some.
I’ve invested nearly $4,000 in retirement this year. Every time I’ve budgeted, I’ve paid my tithing first, and retirement, emergency savings and child’s college second. After all that, my budget comes out $200 - $300 short, yet I never, ever have a problem meeting my obligations, don’t draw down my savings, OR use credit. Between tithing, retirement, other savings and payroll deductions for taxes, etc, I usually have less than 50% of my annual income left for our budget.
Can’t explain it in earthly terms, but to me, it isn’t even an option not to.
I’ve found that if I give for the benefit of others first, that I am always taken care of. My wife and child don’t suffer for it.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Giving substantially, whether a ‘tithe’ or otherwise: whether money or skills or resources, is an open acknowledgement that we are part of a larger whole. Giving informs other values and brings them in line. Clearly, for some, the psychological/emotional benefit of having a large component of giving in one’s life outweighs a lot of financial concerns.
The problem is with financial markets that push people to the nth degree of their financial ability to procure shelter.
thanks.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:36 am
“when they decide to default on their obligations.”
Mortgage lenders have security - the house.
Letting it go into foreclosure is indeed fulfilling their obligation - borrowers are obliged to continue to pay the mortgage, OR let the lender take possession of the house.
The largest state (California) explicitly prohibits any deficiency judgements on a first mortgage loan - the lender knows up front their sole recourse is foreclosure.
Many other states prohibit wage garnishments for private creditors, so even if deficiency judgements are not explicitly prohobited, mortgage lenders know that foreclosing on the house is ultimately the only real recourse they have against the borrower.
Even if this lady has $2000/month in income, we don’t know what other money issues she has (e.g. sudden illness)
I thought my mom had a decent income until she became ill and had to spend her remaining life in a nursing home (not cheap)
September 28th, 2008 at 8:38 am
I pay a 10% tithe ‘religiously’.
I do believe that the Lord will take care of you in unforeseen ways if you do. Maybe not in immediate returns but throughout your lifetime.
One reason I like to pay tithing is because it makes me value the other 90% so much more. When you’ve given away a good chunk of your income, you make sure you don’t squander the remainder of it (at least for me.)
And I’d also add, losing your house isn’t the end of the world. Sure it’s huge. But in the grand scheme of things, and I mean grand, it’s only a blip on the radar. Thats how I try to look at things.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Unbelievable.
Well, you learn something new every day.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:48 am
I see some confusion on the comments here between tithing and giving your time and talents to the community. These are two separate actions that every christian should participate in. Volunteering is not a substitute for tithing; just as tithing extra is not a substitute for not volunteering. This is where the roman catholic church got in trouble with indulgences, and the issue with indulgences was included in the proclamation from Martin Luther about the items in the church that needed to change.
JD - Another correction to the word tithe; while it is correct that the Bible recommends 10% of your income to go to charitable causes it is not necessary that it all goes to the church. Many churches make a recommendation on how your tithe should be divided (ex: 5% church and 5% other causes) I have never heard of a church asking for the entire 10%.
Peggy - I am glad to hear someone that has the same attitude. God owns all of the material possessions in my life, as we are good stewards with what he gives us to take care of he will entrust us with more. If we are poor stewards he will take back the things that are His in the first place
September 28th, 2008 at 8:53 am
The clergy still wants your money and obedience. But hey, at least they let you read your scriptures yourself now! How nice of them.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:53 am
I’m just curious - here in Canada, charitable givings (including tithes to your church) are tax deductible. The percentage of that claim increases if the giving is over $200. Giving can actually have the effect of reducing your income and lowering your tax. Is this not the case in the US?
September 28th, 2008 at 8:57 am
I’m holding a couple of comments in moderation because they’re intentionally provocative and contribute nothing to the conversation. If the writers want to rephrase their comments, I’ll be happy to approve them. Otherwise, I’ll hold them until tomorrow.
Again, GRS doesn’t take a position on topics like this, but I’m not going to let a fine discussion degenerate into the same argument you can find on thousands of other sites. For once, I’m going lend a heavy hand in moderating comments.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:05 am
“If you’re giving 10% in good times to your church as opposed to a charity, the whole point is for it to be available in terms of whatever financial help and advice they give when you need it, right?”
There seems to be a little confusion about what a tithe is actually used for. Its use extends far beyond simply providing financial support to the church congregation. It’s also used for missionary support, building upkeep, and paying clergy salaries. Keep in mind that this is THE income stream of a church - without it, they simply can’t afford to operate.
One thing that does surprise me is that the financial discipline it takes to consistently tithe doesn’t appear to influence other financial decisions. For instance, I would expect a consistent tither to also be a consistent saver.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:06 am
One would have to keep the utmost belief in their faith to keep tithing in the face of despair of becoming homeless. These firm believers need to talk to their church elders as earlier posts have suggested.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:17 am
BJC, yes under current US tax codes charitable giving to a recognized non profit are tax deductible. I believe the woman in the articles problem was month to month bills, not year end money.
Can we take a look for a minute to ask why someone took out a loan for exactly 25 percent of her income, before taxes? This is not including Federal, State, Medical, 401k, utilities, property taxes, and home maintenance.
The issue that shines through here is the woman refusing to give up her contributions to her church. The sad (and underlying) truth is this woman was set up for failure and even if she did stop giving to her church she would most likely have lost her home anyways.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Point of clarification on the quoted example in the post. It’s unintentionally misleading. The article includes a bit more info:
Ingram said one of her clients was a 68-year-old woman who obtained a $62,000 mortgage on behalf of her daughter. When her daughter stopped paying the mortgage this spring, the woman was stuck with payments since her name was on the loan contract
So, it’s not her home. That’s a minor point, though, since it’s essentially her home. She paid for it, even if she’s not living there. And, as others have noted, she was setting herself up for failure (even though it was obviously through kindness…)
September 28th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I am not religious, and don’t tithe. But I was raised to give a portion of my money to charity. I don’t give 10%, but I do make a monthly payment (set up via bill pay) to a small non-profit that I support, and I donate about $200-350 around the holidays to a local women’s shelter. I also make small contributions randomly throughout the year…usually when I feel as though I’m becoming too wrapped up in my own “problems” (which are nothing compared to what other people are dealing with).
Everyone makes financial decisions based on their own set of priorities…but these stories remind me of the stories of parents refusing medical treatment for their children, since everything should be “left in the hands of God.” But as I said, I am not religious so I see things from a different perspective.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:30 am
J.D., you did an excellent job presenting this, and I’m also impressed by the level of discussion here (among the comments posted, anyway). There ARE different viewpoints, but everyone’s been able to discuss them rationally and without namecalling. Kudos!
I think giving is important, but not necessarily complying with a strict tithing regulation. I don’t think Jesus would want us to follow a strict law like that in the face of financial crisis. Some people can give more, and some people less.
J.D., if you do want to start giving regularly, start with something small, like $5 or $10 per month. A lot of people make a practice of giving the same amount that they put into savings, but it sounds like that may not work for you.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:31 am
I think it’s worth noting that if you can’t afford your house after your tithe, that a foreclosure might be a blessing in disguise. Not all blessings are initially clear.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Kathleen McDade writes: J.D., if you do want to start giving regularly, start with something small, like $5 or $10 per month. A lot of people make a practice of giving the same amount that they put into savings, but it sounds like that may not work for you.
Brilliant. So obvious, and yet I never would have thought of it. Thank you, Kathleen.
October 15th is Blog Action Day. The subject this year is poverty. I’ve been trying to think about how to approach it, but I think I might write about charitable giving. And I think that Kathleen’s idea might be a great intro. In many ways, it’s similar to the concept of learning to save or to pay off debt by setting aside just a few dollars at a time, and then gradually, as you build those muscles, doing more.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:47 am
We have a societal problem. We encourage constant spending. Credit is free and easy. Americans are not fiscally responsible or disciplined. They obligate themselves financially beyond their means to withstand an extended economic hardship.
We need to teach and train fiscal responsibility now. So if someone chooses to tithe they understand implications on their ability to obtain a certain mortgage size and their ability to continue to pay that mortgage given economic instability.
Although our politicians, businesses, and organizations like Acorn have made substantial contributions to our current problem, the root of it is our own willingness to extend ourselves beyond our means.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Another interesting aspect which may be considered is the type of recipient of the tithe. Some are directly connected to church and not to “general charity”. Not saying “should or could be” either/or as debated above, but considered as applied to individuals.
Some churches, especially small independent evangelical ones, depend solely on church-members tithes to exist. There is no large association behind them, paying the minister, providing the church. The congregation does.
It may not be a choice between UNICEF and house but a choice between church and house, or the minister’s salary or room and board. I mean the small town, sincere “men of the cloth”, not the “God said send me your money” televangelist. The guys who are minister, adviser, mediator, therapist, brother/sister, mother/father–friend and family, to whole communities. And to some, that is simply a non-debate, right, wrong, or indifferent.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:58 am
I think the concept of tithing is a little outdated, as governments now provide some of the social services that churches used to provide. (I’m not saying they do a better job than churches.) I’m in the 15% tax bracket (I think- according to wikipedia- $8,026 – $32,550 income per year), so I’m already paying 15% of my income to the government in taxes. That money’s used for infrastructure, social services, etc. like a tithe would be
Sure, government isn’t as “good” as the church, but I’m also not religious and I certainly wouldn’t want my money supporting an organization that went around telling people what to believe.
I want to increase my charitable giving once I have a real job, but I do think we should at least consider that taxes and tithes as relatively similar in terms of their functions, when you leave spirituality out of it.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:58 am
“I’ll be honest: I do not tithe to church or charity. I feel guilty about this. And yet I don’t. It’s something I feel I should do, and yet I’m so incredibly protective of what I have. My rationale is always: “Once I take care of myself, I’ll take care of other people.” Yet what do I mean by “taking care of myself”? I don’t know.
Sometimes I think “once I’ve saved X, then I’ll start sharing my wealth”, but X seems to be a moving target. ”
Maybe you just don’t want to, and you feel a little guilty because of it.
I don’t donate either. It’s a personal and private thing, and no one’s business but your own (and your deity’s/church’s, if you believe in that).
September 28th, 2008 at 9:59 am
I think people tithing isn’t the problem. The problem is committing to too much money wise. Tithing is great, but you have to cut back a bit in lifestyle to do it. People have been stretching themselves beyond what is wise to get a house they think they need and there’s not room for the house in the budget let alone a tithe. I was “taught” to take the tithe off the top and make a budget on the rest. I hope people can learn to do this if it’s important to them to tithe.
Dittos to Laura, Aaron and Stan!
September 28th, 2008 at 9:59 am
My employer contributes significantly to a local charity, with one of our biggest fund-raisers being an annual auction. On an individual level, they have set up a very clever contribution scheme: we are permitted to wear jeans once a week for ‘casual’ day, but we contribute $5 each time we do so. At the end of the year, we get a tax receipt for the total. Wearing jeans is totally optional, so no one is obligated to donate. However, because we are contributing to something we might do anyway, it makes the process all the more effective.
September 28th, 2008 at 10:02 am
I can only admire those who are able to so concisely prioritize their financial spending. If giving up ownership of a home in order to contribute to your faith community is in keeping with your values, others should respect that choice.
I am not advocating homelessness or dependence on public assistance in order to keep giving a tithe, but if you move from a 4-bedroom house to a 2-bedroom apartment so that you can continue to tithe, that appears to me to be a values-led decision, and a financially responsible one.
There are plenty of homeowners out there who are facing foreclosure but still have 2 cars, cable TV, new clothes and dinners out. These are also values-led decisions.
And while less than 5% of Americans tithe, a far larger percentage give to charity on a regular basis.
September 28th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Tithing and other acts of faith are a concrete act of financial humility and selflessness, a concept foreign in an increasingly secular and economically frightened society.
At the heart of it, faith-based tithing is a commitment of giving back to God a share of what God gave to us. That giving (tithing and other charitable giving in a community) is the source of a great deal of resources rescuing those in over their heads. I received many thousand dollars from my church when I was laid off and going through a divorce simultaneously. I know what giving and receiving both feel like, and there is a great deal of humilty in both acts.
Humans like to believe that they are in control of much more than is actually in their control. Tithing represents the saving grace of giving and receiving charity that isn’t earned but is given freely anyway. If one attempts to understand it solely in terms of finances one can’t possibly see its value.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:35 am
In the Psalms, God says: “I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens, for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.” God owns everything, and yet He still asks us to tithe. As a Christian, I truly believe that God does own the cattle on a thousand hills, and so any money I have is only because God was gracious to me (even if I “earned” it at my job). Because I believe it is already His, it is not a burden or a struggle to give back ten percent.
Like others have said in some comments before me, the Bible doesn’t teach that God will bless you in proportion to your tithe. We tithe because it requires us to trust in the God who is bigger than the economy, Ben Bernanke, loan officers and mortgages.
As Christians, we place our hope in these words from Psalm 37: “I was young and now I am old, yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken or their children begging bread. They are always generous and lend freely; their children will be blessed.”
September 28th, 2008 at 11:49 am
I’m a pastor. I teach people to give and that this is a function of learning to live within their means. I only make $50k/year and I regularly give 25% of my income to church, charity, etc. But in living like that, I have no debts, my home is totally paid for (worth $350k). My wife and I also have more than the average number of kids (6) and we’re not living on someone else’s income. I’ve learned an important lesson, you can’t outgive God…. But I don’t expect that to make sense to everyone.
I don’t give that information above as a way of bragging. I simply say, that when American’s learn to stop living on credit and live within their means, the sky is the limit and it’s surprising what can really happen in people’s lives in the way they can give and help others.
Just my 2 cents….
September 28th, 2008 at 11:55 am
I’m a member of the LDS church and I believe that EVERYTHING I have in my life is because of the Lord. 10% of our family’s income is the least we can give after all He has done for us, even if that means some of our other debts go unpaid for the time being. It takes tremendous faith to make that decision when faced with financial difficulty. We have been there, yes even when facing foreclosure, and we have been blessed because we followed the commandment of tithing and were able to avoid that pitfall.
I believe wholeheartedly that through faithfulness we will be blessed in ways that have much more importance and eternal consequence than just finances. I am inspired by stories of people who live their faith so completely, that they will give up their greatest possessions to follow the gospel. I think that is amazing.
September 28th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
J.D. I’m a Christian and I do give my 10%. Though this would go extremely well towards my bills and obligations, I have another obligation which takes priority and that is my dues to God. In the bible we read about times where we will be “tested” to ascertain just how strong our faith is in our beliefs. Some Christians have reneged on their oath, but the steadfast ones are adhering regardless of foreclosure. In Canada we do get a tax rebate but it’s nothing substantial. The question that most have on their mind is, “do I favour my temporary house on Earth, vs. my mansion in heaven”. With the current trade deficit reaching nearly 6.9Trillion we are headed for rough times ahead. Further Reading
September 28th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
We’ve run into a similar situation, in that my husband lost his job recently–2/3 of the household income gone. Two factors have turned this into a stress-free, semi-leisurely search for new–and better– employment:
1) 6 months ago, I became insanely committed to getting our finances in order. The fed government funded my brand new emergency fund, via the economic stimulus. I read a ton of stuff, we cut spending, started saving, and committed ourselves to a weekly spending plan.
2) The 11.5% of our gross income we normally give away. New Testament doesn’t state ten percent, it states generously. So we started small (3%) and steadily increased as we made more money. Not a lot, we’re talking $65K a year, but disgustingly wealthy by world standards. My feeling is that 10 is a lot of money at low income, and a drop in a bucket at high income. If you’re making 500,000, are you really missing that 50K? Is it hard to live on 450K? Really, I’m curious.
We did call our church and cut our giving back temporarily until we’re fully employed again. It’s minimal now, not non-existent, and as soon as we’re employed we’ll stick to that bare bones budget and replenish the amount we missed, along with our savings if need be. Other folks are making up part of our giving for us, too, on top of their own.
But I look at this as a gift to our family; because we were doing without this money already, we aren’t even close to being as stressed as we would have been. Because we were on track starting six months ago, we were more prepared than we’d ever been for something like this. I am a Christian, and I do believe God knew what was on the horizon, even though it was a total shock to us. I thought at the time I might have been going overboard with how intense I was about finances… but apparently I was as intense as we would need me to be six months down the road.
What it boiled down to was with a bare bones budget and giving downsized, savings on hold, we were short 500 bucks a month. 500 bucks! That amazed me.
Giving away money–a generous amount of money–I consider to be a protection, against greed, against living above your means, and now against unemployment. Sure, had we been saving that much, the situation would have been the same. But I don’t think saving alone puts the same kind of hedge around the greed that can lead to financial ruin in the first place. And parting with money keeps you mindful of how much you have in the first place. All that is beyond what it can do for others…
(And I am sorry I didn’t have the time to write a short comment. I have to plan a budget for October.)
September 28th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
I have been a Christian and studier of the Bible for over twenty years. I did a comprehensive study of the tithe ever since attending evangelical churches that made it out to sound like God’s curse is upon those that do not tithe (an idea taken from the Old Testament book of Malachi). I investigated the entire use of the tithe because I think everyone should investigate and not blindly follow church leaders. Also, when something could possibly be manipulation it is a good idea to investigate. After studying the Bible, I found that all mentions except one of the Biblical tithe are in the Old Testament. The onlt mention in the New Testament was by Jesus (before there was an established Christian church) responding to a Jew who told him that he tithed and did a lot of noble things and wanted to know what else he needed to do. Jesus replied that yes, he should tithe, but also not neglect to love. So Jesus appears to endorse tithing at least for the Jews. Now for some history of the tithe… The tithe was instituted so there would be plenty of food in the Temple. Why? Because one of the twelve tribes of Israel (the Levites) were not allowed to work for pay. They were to take care of the Temple and live off the 10% offerings of the other tribes. It was, in essence, the national tax of Israel. This explains why Christians were never commanded to tithe. Even the Apostle Paul, who admitted to being a strict Pharisee and therefore had to be a tither, never preached tithing in his epistles to the churches. He knew there was no one Christian temple and certainly no tribe (or race) of people that needed financial dependence for maintaining such a structure. In 2 Corinthians 9:7, Paul instructs us to give what God has purposed in our hearts. So should Christians tithe? One thing for certain: No one should be telling Christians they must tithe. Jesus definitely spoke against witholding money from someone that is owed money. Not paying the mortgage payment when the money is available sounds like not paying a debtor to me. So can a person tithe, yet be sinning? Hmmm… sounds like it, doesn’t it? Are pastors and church leaders sinning when they guilt people into paying tithes? Yes, if they are manipulating people for their own gain. No, if they are truly duped into believing that the practice is God’s command. But pastors and church leaders should know everything that I have researched to be true. And yes, I have witnessed people who faithfully tithed amidst personal finanical crises who lost homes and businesses and filed for bankruptcy. Shame on the churches who did not help these poor, gullible givers. I hope my response has liberated a lot of Christians who still continue to give generously to a good institution without hurting their debtors and their families in whom they are also indebted. Or possibly a neighbor in need if they feel led to help them out one week instead of their church. The Old Testament Temple was a building, the New Testament Church is the people, not a building. Finally… if the United States ever wants to abolish their current tax code and replace it with ancient Israel’s 10% flat tax, I’m all for it! I’ll have more money to give elsewhere!
September 28th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I’m not religious. I certainly support generosity, and generously did I give…when I had the money. For well over a year I’ve been insolvent, and sometimes I still manage to a give a little, but I figure, no one will be able to benefit from me if I become one of those in need. The idea that, if I act irrationally in a crisis, I will be rewarded, is one of the (many) things about religion that I think is…bad. There. I said it. It’s bad.
September 28th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
If tithing is the difference in losing or keeping a house they probably shouldn’t have purchased that expensive of a house in the first place. (With the obvious exception of for those who’s circumstances have changed since purchase.)
I hope if I were ever in that situation that I would choose tithing over keeping a house. In the end if 10% of your income is the difference in keeping the house or not, then you probably aren’t going to be able to keep it anyway.
September 28th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Excellent post JD
This very subject has been in the back of my mind for quite a while. You see inspite of being long term Christians we’ve never had the cash to give tithe beyond a bit of hit and miss. When my wife and I started attending church again after a long sojourn we both made a decision that we would start giving tithe, we like Melanie started off small and slowly increased it as our faith increased. An amazing thing started as our giving increased, our money started going further and further, at first my Wife wasn’t so sure but after a year of steadily increasing our tithe (still haven’t hit 10% yet) she’s become convinced and said to go for the whole shot. I’m not quite read to set up a standing order (still prefer to write the cheque control thing) but I’m getting there.
OK what about the “what abouts”
Those that give tithe and suffered for it? Well I’d answer it 3 ways.
1. A bit of common sense please!!!!!
I was discussing tithing with a friend who was very big into tithing when he made a comment, ” on occasion when money was tight we cut back but always made up for it latter” in other words he knew he had an obligation to pay his bills, so before buying that “42 HD Ready Flat Screen” he made sure his tithe was paid up.
2. God deals with each person as an individual
I really struggled with how much to share our “tithing” experience as the same time we are being blessed our cleaning lady (a Christian) is struggling greatly Spain goes through a major economic crisis. Why is God blessing us and not her?
I wish I could say that each Christian that gives tithe gets richer, better looking, more popular etc etc but it just doesn’t work that way. All I know is that God deals with us as individuals.
3. God blesses us in different ways, our Pastors Richard and Reijke don’t have much nice, all of there money and time is spent helping others, yet inspite of having a low income high rent and feeding large groups of visitors every week (try hosting a large BBQ every week and see what it does to your food budget) they never seem to run short.
On the issue of 10%
I think Billy Graham put it best. When asked about tithing, he said “ Most Christians find 90% goes further than 100%
I couldn’t agree more.
JD thanks for moderating the comments I really want to hear what people think both positive and negative
September 28th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
My family gives 10% of our gross income to our church. Our church also emphasizes strongly that we should always live within our means and not go into debt unless it is absolutely necessary. To me that translates into being frugal and knowing where your money is going. If you can’t afford it … don’t take it on. That will only cause heartache and unhappiness.
We moved out here to LA three years ago and I suppose we could have jumped into the housing fray; no one would have asked for money down or credit history or anything. We could have signed a paper and “owned” a $400K house, but we knew we couldn’t pay for it, so we rented a place instead. It’s not ideal, I’d love a house, but we can’t afford it.
Just because I exist doesn’t mean I’m owed a house, or a nice car I can’t afford, or whatever. Instead of thinking about what I’m owed, I acknowledge that everything I have comes from God (and I have a lot). Then I pay my tithing and use the rest of money I have left as responsibly as I can. It brings me happiness and peace to live this way.
I appreciate the respectful way you have created & kept this discussion going, JD. Props to you.
September 28th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
The problem is that tithe money for many people is not money you can move around on a spreadsheet. It is simply not _their_ money. When someone is told that they can fend off foreclosure by not tithing then that really translates to: Steal from God. Some would consider that irrational behavior, but I’m reminded that no one person can determine rational behavior for his neighbor. Indeed, it requires omniscience to understand what is objectively rational.
September 28th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I do not believe that there is any Biblical basis for tithing. I spent several years studying the issue and I wrote a lengthy article about the topic. Please email me at kmtesq@aol.com if you would like a copy of the article. You can also find it on my myspace page at http://www.myspace.com/talleyesq The article is entitled “Am I A Thief: An Examination of Whether Tithing is Required By Christians)–under the blog section.
Before addressing the topic at hand, I wanted to say in summary what my Christian view is on tithing because it also sheds light on my response to this topic. I believe that churches who teach tithing are not teaching their congregants to live like true Christians in spiritual union with Jesus Christ. This is because the tithing doctrine contradicts the New Covenant and diminishes the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christians are taught to put our faith in tithing as the source of our protection from evil/bad things/Satan and as a source of our blessings from God. This is directly contrary to what the Word of God tells us about our source of power from God based upon the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ. There is numerous biblical support for this position.
Aside from the religious point of view, people who choose to tithe instead of pay their mortgage, as one of the posters indicated, do severe harm to our economy and their neighbors by allowing their home to go into foreclosure. This is a selfish act, particularly when the churches who they are giving their tithes to probably have excess money (i.e. the mega churches). The value of my home went down nearly $200,000 in a year because there were 12 foreclosures in the area. While those who chose to tithe to their church instead of pay their mortgage have been brainwashed into believing that they are doing God’s will, they are not and their conduct is harming others–including their own family. There are scriptures that say give what you have and not what you have not—there are also scriptures that tell you to take care of your family first.
I do not believe that any of these individuals can point to any Biblical support in the New Testament for what they are doing. I also do not believe that even the Old Testament scriptures support this practice for Christians.
September 28th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
As a Mormon, a full tithe has always been a principle strictly enforced by my church. But unlike many of my more orthodox LDS brothers and sisters, I’ve come to hold a very different interpretation of the scriptural injuction.
As a result, rather than tithe 10% of my gross income, I choose to tithe only 10% of my increase or surplus, the amount of leftover money after my most basic needs are covered. At this point in my life, I define my essential budget categories as rent, groceries, taxes, health insurance, gas and university tuition. I tithe on the rest.
Few other members would agree with my interpretation but I feel that I am following both the scripture and the spiritual promptings from God. My inclination is also to pay more of my tithing to charities, but within the LDS Church tithing is only really considered valid when the full 10% remitted to the church itself.
(The rest of my post is background and sorry it makes it so long…) For reference, here’s what the tithing scriptures (revealed in 1838) say:
4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
5 Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.
-Doctrine & Covenants Section 119
The Church Handbook of Instructions, a manual used by church leaders, cites a letter written in 1970 from the First Presidency of the Church defining “interest” as income. The only people exempt from paying tithing are listed as members entirely dependent on Church welfare and full-time missionaries.
It is interesting to note that prior to 1838, the Mormon Church did not require tithing but rather communal asset distribution known as the law of consecration. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Consecration
Members turned over all their property to the church, who then assigned them back stewardship of the property, but any excess was given to other members by the church. For better or for worse, members are no longer hold to this but to the more straightforward 10% doctrine.
September 28th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
This is an interesting topic; thank you for bringing it up so tactfully. I agree with the theme of a lot of the comments that said if you can’t live in 90% of your income, the problem likely isn’t the tithe but rather your lifestyle. My husband and I have tithed since we married (almost 5 1/2 years ago) and our needs have always been met - we don’t have the nicest car or the biggest house of all our friends, but we do have a pretty sweet TV
In addition, we give to other charities - we’ve always felt that a tithe is our “obligation” much like any other bill, and other offerings should come on top of that. We make small contributions to a friend who works in college missions, the ASPCA (the puppies and kitties are so sad looking!) as well as sponsoring two children overseas, one in Indonesia and one in Ghana. If you’re looking for a way to get started in giving I’d highly recommend this - there are many organizations (both religious and secular) that offer child sponsorship, the cost is minimal and can be deducted automatically each month, and you know what your gift is going to directly rather than just going to some nebulous donor pool.
September 28th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I am not a Christian, so I’ll talk in general about giving to charity vs paying for your home. I understand that religious obligations are stronger than just charitable giving, but some of the issues may be the same.
If a tenant not an owner chooses to give 10% to charity but then is unable to pay his rent, he not only can be evicted, he hurts others i.e. his landlord who has bills too.
Similarly, if somebody gives 10% and as a result loses his house, this person’s family suffers. But others suffer as well - their neighbors whose house values go down and who now may not be able to refinance; the whole neighborhood may be affected. Additionally, as we can see now, the whole economy suffers when a lot of people don’t pay their mortgage.
A mortgage is an obligation. I firmly believe that if you borrow money you have to pay it back. Is not meeting one’s obligation and indirectly hurting others less important than not giving 10% to the church? I don’t believe that hurting others is the right choice here.
I totally agree that people have to buy what they can afford, actually less than what they can afford. But unexpected things happen - the loss of a job, for example, or an illness. Regardless how one got into this situation, the choice is the same - fail on one’s obligations or reduce the amount of money one gives.
September 28th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
There will always be excuses not to give or share with others, in the same way that there are always excuses not to save money or be frugal. This is why I do admire those who refused to cut down or stop tithing, although I am not religious. Even though their actions were leading them to financial failure, their hearts were in the right place. Agree or disagree with what they did, the point is that they felt it was more important than having a roof over their heads to help others.
This reminds me of one of my favorite stories from the Bible. Although as I mentioned, I am not Christian, I still find this story quite inspiring. Luke 21:1-4
And he looked up, and saw rich men dropping their gifts into the offering box. Then he noticed a destitute widow drop in two small copper coins. And he said “In truth, I tell you that this widow has put in more than all of the others. For all these put in gifts out of their abundance, and she out of her poverty hath put in all she had to live on.”
It is something I think about whenever I am considering giving to charity. I believe the moral of this is that giving to others is easy when we ourselves have so much we don’t know what to do with it. The true measure of charity is giving to others although you may have to sacrifice to do so. This is the definition of altruism, not to give because you expect that rewards will come to you because of it.
September 28th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
First, I’ll say that I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (i.e. LDS or “Mormon” if you prefer) and I have grown up my entire life with the expectation and commandment to pay tithing. I can only speak for myself, but my financial decisions on the whole have been better for myself and my family when I have willingly and completely paid a full tithe as compared to period in my life where I did not.
My opinion on this is that, outside of the tangible charitable benefits (knowing that my money goes to help missionaries, build temples, and build meetinghouses around the world) and the intangible spiritual and religious benefits (those things that I have a testimony of, but would have a really hard time putting on a balance sheet), I believe that the main purpose of tithing is to make the person doing it change their mental paradigm as far as money is concerned. When we willingly and fully give 10% of our money off the top each pay period, we get into the mindset of being one who is a giver. By being a giver, we are able to see outside of ourselves into a broader community. In my world view, this helps to contribute greatly to a better feeling of contentment and to a willingness to budget and plan in ways that will ensure that the ability to give that 10% each month isn’t stopped.
I do not look at it in any way that God needs my money (he doesn’t, he already has everything), or that God will love me any less if I don’t do it (though I feel he will be disappointed that I’m not doing what he’s asked me to do, same way I feel when I ask my own kids to do something and they don’t; I still love them, but yes, I’d be disappointed in them). I look at it as this is a principle that God wants me to learn, that I should be one willing to share of what I have with others, even when it’s not convenient for me to do so. My being willing to do that has contributed greatly to our family being able to own a home free and clear in one of the most expensive housing markets in the country, and to make ends meet on my one income in an area where two income families are seen as almost a necessity. I cannot say that tithing has been the sole reason, but it has helped attune me and my family in such a way that we make different choices and we’ve been able to benefit from those choices. We’ve had our challenges over the years, to be sure, but somehow, we’ve always managed to pull through. I don’t think it’s an accident that our paying tithing through good times and bad had a lot to do with that :).
September 28th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
I don’t belong to a church and I’m not comfortable with organized religion, but I am a spiritual person, and I do believe in God.
When I was looking for a job two years ago, I found what I thought was the perfect job opening at the right company. The hiring process took a very long time (two months from the first interview), and I was anxious about whether or not they’d hire me. Finally, I decided to just let go and give it up to a higher power. If it was meant to be, it would happen. I also vowed to start giving money to a specific charity I had wanted to support as soon as I found a job. I did get the job, and I still give to the charity every month. I’m looking for a couple more causes to support, as well. Yes, I helped myself first, and now I’m able to help others. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with that. If someone loses their home, how much are they going to be able to give then?
Giving is important to me, but not because the Bible says to give some preset percentage. I just believe in helping those less fortunate in self-sustaining ways (the charity I support helps women in war-torn countries start their own businesses). I feel as though I have always been lucky in life and have never gone without, and giving is the only way I can deal with so much of what I read in the news. I have to do something, however small, to help those who have not been as lucky as I.
I get letters from the woman I’m matched with in the program, and hearing about her progress and her accomplishments makes her situation, and the situation of so many more, seem that much more hopeful. That is what I get out of giving.
September 28th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Christianity (and tithing) is not nearly as complex or mind-numbingly stupid as some people think it is.
Clearly, God isn’t going to be better off if we give 10%. Obviously, God is not a guaranteed-win slot machine who will always return our tithe with interest.
There’s a faith-based assumption that underlies the entire Bible: Ultimate satisfaction is found only in God. Wealth will not provide that satisfaction. If a person fully embraces this assumption, tithing is a natural consequence.
It doesn’t seem make a ton of sense. If it did make sense, evangelizing would be much easier. But it makes sense for those who have accepted it and, as evidenced by the fact that they value their house less than they value their conviction, this fundamental assumption is very powerful.
September 28th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Giving not necessarily means you have to give material things. It could be other non-tangible things such as your time or your expertise. I know a financially struggling 27 year old single mother of 3 children in our church. Money for her is difficult for her so our pastor insisted that she help the congregation by volunteering her skills as a cook for the church instead of giving money.
September 28th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
I have to comment one more time: I would really like to know (please email me) what is the biblical authority that tithing comes first–before paying the mortgage.
Under Mosaic law, there were only two types of income that were tithable: one was from agricultural production and the other was the increase of animals. For example, if you owned 100 cattle and during the spring, you were blessed with 50 additional calves, you would be required to give five of the calves as a tithe to God. Individuals with fewer than ten cattle did not have to tithe because the law only required that the tenth animal that passed under the rod was to be tithed. (Leviticus 27:32).
Furthermore, a large segment of the people in Israel did not tithe. For example, fisherman did not tithe. Also, hired hands and people who worked in the mining industry, lumber business and craft or other merchandising business were not required to tithe. Indeed, Jesus himself would not have been required to tithe.
What is the scriptural basis that one should be paying 10% to a church before paying for their home and taking care of their family.
If people are going to use the Bible as their basis for doing something, then they should follow the Bible as it is and not add or subtract from it. None of the churches that I have attended have tithed under the system set forth under the Old Testament. In fact, Christians do not follow any of the other ceremonial or civil laws set forth under Mosaic Law. On what authority from God do the modern day churches choose to obey part of the Mosaic Law and disregard the other? Further, what gives proponents of tithing the right to redesign the Biblically-based system of tithing under Mosaic law into a system they want to follow which will benefit them, but is clearly contrary to the Bible? If Christians want to argue that the Bible requires them to tithe based upon a purported Biblical mandate found in the Old Testament, then the church should follow all of the mandates—this would include the mandates on the minister/pastor not owning property or land, having other income and would also include the number of tithes that should be given, when and where the people should tithe, the purpose of the tithe and who should be given the tithe. After all, in Deuteronomy 12:32, God tells the Israelites that they are required to obey all of the commandments and not to add or subtract from them.
For example, as Christians today, would we support such barbaric practices as stoning to death women who engage in pre-marital sex (Deut. 22:13-21), stoning to death men who committed adultery with a married woman (Deut. 22:22), stoning to death children who are disobedient to their parents (Deut. 21:18), slavery (Deut. 15:12-17), or beating a man with up to forty stripes with a whip for committing a crime (Deut. 25:1-3)? Do we as modern Christians support the practice of men having multiple wives (Deut. 21:15) or the practice of ostracizing a woman by separating her from her family and friends during her menstrual cycle (Leviticus 15:19-24, Numbers 5:2)?
Under these same laws, we could not have tattoos on our bodies ( Lev. 19:28) or wear clothes made out of two different types of materials such as linen and wool. (Deut. 22:11) Our judicial system would put to death a woman who was raped who did not cry out for help (Deut 22:23-24). Kidnappers would also be put to death (Deut. 24:7) and a woman who grabbed the genitals of the man fighting her husband would have her hand cut off. (Deut. 25:11).
In coming to grips with such antiquated practices, I can only believe that these Laws were written to a very specific group of people (the Israelites), at a very specific time (before Christ’s Resurrection), for a very specific purpose (Until Christ Redeemed Us). In fact, I would argue that anyone who relies on following the Law is in grave danger. As Paul stated in Galatians 3:10: “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.’” Stated otherwise, you cannot choose randomly which of the 600-plus ceremonial and civil laws in the Old Testament you will obey.
If you choose to follow the Law, you have to follow all of the Law. If you break one, you are cursed. Moreover, if we were bound by all of the ceremonial and civil laws set forth in the Old Testament, would we follow Moses’ instruction on the Laws to the Israelites when he spoke to them after their exodus from Egypt at the foot of Mount Sinai as set forth in the book of Leviticus (the instructions to the Priest) or would we follow Moses’ instruction to the new generation of Israelites about to enter the Promised Land on the east side of the Jordan River as set forth in Deuteronomy? These are questions that must be answered by proponents of tithing if they are going to use the Old Testament as the basis for supporting this practice.
Furthermore, even if a church is somehow going to reason that we are under these old laws with respect to the issue of tithing only (which there is absolutely no Biblical basis to separate the issue from tithing from other ceremonial and civil laws like the ones set forth above), then, at a minimum, the church should attempt to achieve the same purpose that God achieved when he imposed the duty on the Israelites to tithe in the first place. For example, if one reads the Biblical references to the system of tithing set forth under Mosaic law, it is clear that the purpose of the tithe was to make sure that those who had food would take care of those without food- i.e. the “Levites (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee), the stranger, the widow, which are within the gates. . .” so that they can “eat and be satisfied.” (Deut. 14:29) As set forth above, the only tithe that did not go to feed others was the festival tithe that was personally consumed before God. (See Deut. 14:22-29 quoted above).
September 28th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
KimInLosAngeles, you got it right. As i said in an earlier post, the tithe was the national tax for a theocratic nation. The Levites needed the food and goods so they could survive. They did not get paid. We do NOT live in a theocracy, and I wish we did and only had to pay 10% in tax. It was a command that obviously in time was not enforced, otherwise Malachi would not have mentioned it. The apostle Paul was a strict law-abiding Pharisee who obviously tithed and even he did not tell Christians to tithe. Instead he said “give generously” in 2 Corinthians 9:7. Jesus said to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. If you believe that your church is worthwhile, give generously. There is no concrete law that God commands. That was for the theocracy of Israel. That should be the end of the discussion, but I’m sure there are a lot of pastors having seizures because they think everyone is a cheapskate and need to be pressured to give 10% on top of everything the government takes from us, leaving us struggling to pay our bills.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
This is exactly why I am against organized religion. Seems to me that people should be able to worship any god they like without paying for the privilege. I simply don’t understand why anyone would donate to the church to the detriment of their well being. I understand making sacrifices for those less fortunate, but not at the expense of making you one of them. Like another commenter said, this goes against the whole “love thy neighbor” thing, because when you lose your home, you drive the value of your neighbors homes down. Sorry if my comments offend anyone, but I just don’t understand giving up your own well being for something that may or may not exist.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
I think for many people who tithe they don’t really consider that money as theirs. Plenty of people who are losing their homes still pay their taxes. Is it surprising some people are more afraid of God’s wrath than the IRS?
Many people think the grace of God also has a lot to do with their success. Just as the society you live can have more to do with your standard of living than your own knowledge, experience or work habits.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Anyone who puts tithing above their mortgage (or other bills) is by *my interpretation* of Scripture worse than an unbeliever.
1 Timothy 5:8 (NIV): “If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
I don’t think tithe is a salvation issue. I haven’t read the comments, but by now I’m sure someone has addressed this :-). I tithe because I am called to do so. It feels good to give, and God himself is a giver (John 3:16!), and we were made in his image.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
I can’t speak to tithing, as I’m not Christian, but your comment here JD, really struck me:
I’ll be honest: I do not tithe to church or charity. I feel guilty about this. And yet I don’t. It’s something I feel I should do, and yet I’m so incredibly protective of what I have. My rationale is always: “Once I take care of myself, I’ll take care of other people.” Yet what do I mean by “taking care of myself”? I don’t know.
I have a terrible time giving money to charity, even though I always felt I should. For me, not being able to give is tied directly to not being able to save. In both cases I feel a loss of control over my ability to use my own money.
Now I’m teaching myself to see generosity as a key requirement for prosperity. There’s more here:
http://growprosperthrive.blogspot.com/2008/08/key-to-prosperity-generosity.html about how I came to this conclusion and the scientific proof that backs it up.
Currently I give a regular monthly amount to Modest Needs — not much, but it feels great.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Very interesting. I was raised Catholic, though I am currently not a member of an organized religion. When I was Catholic, I always gave as generously as I could to the church, though usually in terms of direct work for the church instead of money. When I see stories like these, where people deliberately give up in order to “trust to God” I am reminded of a story I was told.
A man is stuck on his roof during a flood. A rescue boat comes by to pick him up, but the man refuses, saying that he will trust to God. A helicopter comes by a little while later to rescue him, but the man again claims that he will trust to God. Eventually, the man drowns, and when he gets to heaven, he cries out “I trusted you! Why didn’t you save me?” God replies, “I sent a boat and a helicopter! What more did you want?”
Moral of the story, God doesn’t want you to kill yourself trusting to him!
September 28th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
God provides for His people, but not necessarily in the way that they want or expect. Home ownership may not be the way God provides for a particular person.
Also, God is sufficient, and those that believe in Him — homeless, bankrupt, thief, whomever — will have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Default, foreclosure may be God’s loving discipline. Even if the causes of the foreclosure seems out of the person’s control, the Bible makes it clear that believers will suffer (the book of Job comes to mind).
Besides, everything is God’s anyway; we all just get to borrow it for a while.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
JD, thanks for the post. I have been contemplating a post on tithing for months and you just lite the fire. We have been tithing for three years this fall. A series of very bad financial decisions led us to a point of no return with our finances, or so we thought what the heck, why not get God involved. We did not actually hit rock bottom with our finances until after we began tithing and then things took a huge turn. Now we are within a year of having everything paid off except our home. I don;t think tithing in itself fixed our problems, but rather our attitude towards God and money led to solutions for our financial problems.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
I must say, as a non-religious reader I’m extremely humbled by the conviction many religious posters have shown about their commitment to charitable giving.
JD - a steady monthly donation to charity, even if small, can be more valuable to an organization than a yearly donation because it can help them plan programming according to a stable budget.
I started donating to Doctors without Borders almost six years ago as a student, and I started at $10 a month. I’m now up to about $25 and it’s as much a part of my budget as my phone bill. It’s not much, and admittedly nowhere near 10% of my income, but I value it more for training me in the consistent practice of giving - one that I will build on for a lifetime.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Brian (nr. 22) says… “The lady who let the bank foreclose her house showed integrity in one commandment (tithe) and showed duplicity in another (paying your obligations). God also tells us to not cheat, steal, or lie. Failing to pay a debt is the same as cheating,stealing, or lying.”
This is what I thought. The Biblical command in the New Testament is to give as you are able. But there are many commands to pay your debts or meet your obligations, etc.
So, IMO, she is being ’strict’ about a derived principle (the amount is from the OT but the command to give is from the NT), but ignoring a COMMAND about being honest, trustworthy, etc in her obligations.
There are plenty of biblical principles about money in the Bible. I think she should cut back on all her expenses equally and then see what she can do. She could see about working at the church (janitorial, gardening) and just having them “not pay her” in lieu of tithe.
Usually it isn’t an either/or situation. That’s usually just something drawn up to make controversy.
JD, if you do want to give and aren’t a member of a church anywhere, find a charity that you really believe in and start by giving 1%, etc. work up from there.
When you don’t really believe in anyone else, it is easy to keep it all, but when you begin to see others (worldwide) who have needs far greater than anything you have ever experienced and can find a trustworthy group who are helping, you will want to help.
(I’m writing from Poland where “hungry” people are thin.)
September 29th, 2008 at 4:49 am
As a christian, it is interesting to me that so many christians believe that the bible commands us to give 10% of our gross earinings every year as a tithe. That is not in the bible anywhere Old or New testament. The Old testament Jews tithed every third year, as commanded, to what we now would call the church. They also had other laws that required giving of first fruits, such as the first offspring of their flock. It is also interesting that in the new testament, most examples of giving were 100%. The bible also says that the “borrower is slave to the lender.”
September 29th, 2008 at 4:54 am
I don’t think tithing is the point of this article. Tithing does not bring you to the brink of foreclosure. Neither does any other spending we do. It is the mishandling of ALL of our funds that brings us to the place of losing a home, car, or bankrupcy. The Bible does address money issues in many ways. It talks about planning for the future, diversivying your investments, and being prepared for a crisis. The Proverbs 31 woman referred to as the “wife of nobel character”, bought and sold, dealt with merchants, made investments, planned for what would come and was not found unprepared. If we make sound decisions with our finances, we won’t have to choose between giving and living. Deciding to leave off tithing may temporarily put a bandage on the situation, but in all probability not fix the underlying problem…overspending and underplanning.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:59 am
It’s sad for me to see something like this happen.
As a Christian tithing is not a Christian principle. It’s a biblical principle yes, but the New Testament does not support it (and tithing really just means 10%, but in the biblical context it means 10% of everything, what you have and what you are still to get).
Now never in the bible is tithing cold hard cash. Never. I don’t understand where this “doctrine” comes from that we have to tithe money.
Then also, the Jews really tithed 23.3%. They had three tithes, why then do we only have to tithe 10% if we’re following the Jewish laws of tithing? (Yet we don’t follow the sabbath?)
Crazy!
Giving is wonderful though!
Also, the reason for foreclosure isn’t tithing it’s what you do with the other 90%…
September 29th, 2008 at 5:31 am
The word tithe basically means tenth. If someone is doing it as a religious observance then they should just keep their money because they are missing the point. It is an individual decision whether to take on the discipline of systematic charitable giving. Generosity is a principle built into the very fabric of life.
During financial counseling if the right questions are asked you will usually find that the problem is not related to tithing but other factors such as poor work or spending practices.
Jesus made some of his harshest statements to religious people who practiced ritualistic tithing but missed the greater revelation of generosity.
Thanks of the post and all the comments. I really enjoyed it.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:14 am
I do tithe, and it is painful sometimes, since our tithe is 20% more than our next highest expense, our mortgage. But it does make me realize how blessed I am and makes me thankful for what I have. That being said, I chose a home that was very easily affordable even after my giving obligations. I also agree that it doesn’t make sense to obey in the tithing but disobey in the command to repay your debts. I think that in times of severe financial distress, it is allowable to suspend your tithe.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:26 am
I see plenty of Mormons are posting here. How about a view from an ex-Mormon?
Just do a quick search for Utah and bankruptcy rates. Utah is always in the top few.
Make of that what you will.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:36 am
I’ve seen Dave Ramsey go from “hold off on tithing until you’re back on track” to “you must tithe even during the Money Makeover” in the space of under a year. I think it has a lot to do with:
1) His increased presence in church communities (Total Money Makeover has support groups in communities like churches and workplaces).
2) Dave’s increased publicity in conservative circles (Fox Business News, anyone?)
September 29th, 2008 at 7:57 am
The article does really have any statistical correlation.
“While nonprofits around the country say tithing is an issue in some foreclosure cases, little data exist on the phenomenon because many counselors are trained not to bring up the sensitive issue with struggling home owners.”
The article claims only 5% tithe but makes no mention on what percentage of the %5 are actually going into foreclosure. Even if its 25% (which I’m sure it is much less) that is not a very large number.
The author has only one example and no other statistical data. Sounds like a stretch for a correlation between the two. The author should check the % of people under foreclosure that also have cable, internet, or their entertainment expenses (casino, eating out, movies).
September 29th, 2008 at 8:15 am
JD, If you are interested in giving to charity, I would find an organization that you are interested in and start by giving time. I find that I give the most money to those charities that I’m the most involved with.
Giving is part of our budget, but like all other budget items if we were facing an emergency we would cut back the amount of money being given and increase the amount of time.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:19 am
Thanks for contributing to this larger conversation on church stewardship and giving. I missed the USA Today article. I expanded on your thoughts @ http://tinyurl.com/3rhhkl.
Thanks, Ben.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Simply using the only example you cited - a $500 a month mortgage and a $200 a month tithe - This woman has too much house already. Making $2000 a month and trying to afford a $500 a month mortgage is not sustainable, especially when you start factoring in upkeep and utilities.
She should be renting - and quite possibly with a roommate or two.
The problem in your example is not the tithe, but what she is doing with the rest of the money.
September 29th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Parker (Comment #14) has a good point. Anyone who tithes regularly really needs to consider the amount that they tithe when purchasing a home. If your salary is $50,000 per year then you need to treat is as though you only make $45,000 per year when you’re deciding how much you can afford to borrow.
My wife and I have chosen to tithe 10% of what we earn. We’re also in the early stages of buying our first home. As we’ve been looking at our financial situation and evaluating what we can afford, we’ve had to keep this in mind. When using one of those online “how much can I borrow” tools I’ve found it’s easiest, for calculation purposes only, to list the amount that we donate weekly as a debt so the mortgage calculator accurately calculates that you’ll have $XXX less money each week. It was tough for us and for our banker to wrap our heads around that one.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Interesting topic, but I think your headline is misleading. My experience with Judeo-Christian tithing comes from Jewish, Muslim, and Catholic friends/education (though I am none of the above), but here is what I understand:
Tithing is God’s commandment for a number of reasons. First and foremost, it is a reminder that all you have you owe to God’s blessing. Second, it is a reminder that you are connected to something greater than yourself, not just God, but also your community. And third, it is a testament to faith.
It is that last that I think is most important, and also the most troubling in this situation. Tithers who are at risk of losing their homes lack faith. If you truly believe in the lessons of tithing, you would understand that it is not just about giving X dollars on a regular basis, but *also* about managing the remaining in a way that demonstrates your faith and integrity. God doesn’t just want his 10%, he wants you to live with the other 90% in line with the rest of his commandments. Tithing should not be on auto-pilot.
So, it’s not tithing that is the problem. It’s the lack of awareness of what it means for your entire financial situation.
Anyway, good discussion!
Also, JD, regarding your own lack of giving. A major part of a successful financial life is lacking on your part, IMHO. Giving is what makes us appreciate the part we get to keep. As someone else pointed out, getting involved with your time first is a great introduction. I second that you should start with that, and giving of $ will naturally flow.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I think what Dave Ramsey means is that tithing is a discipline that shouldn’t be stopped just because you struggle with debt or live paycheck to paycheck. It is something that teaches you to put God 1st in your life even though you have other things going on. But in severe cases (foreclosure, creditors after you all the time, literally not being able to buy any food) then it is ok to stop tithing.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:59 am
GregB…Book of Malachi
September 29th, 2008 at 11:03 am
As an amateur Bible scholar, I find it interesting that the Old Testament does set forth 10% gross as the tithe, but Jesus in the New Testament says after you have taken care of your most basic needs, give *everything* away to the poor.
I’ve been in churches where it doesn’t matter who you are and what you do, you’re going to Heaven as long as you give the church 10% of your money. I didn’t last in those churches long.
I give money to my parish church, and I give money to four other organizations locally and abroad, religious and secular. I also donate time and my organizational skills to two of the groups I donate money to, and to top it all off, I sit on the Board of Directors of my church. I know where my money’s going. Because I’m the one directing it.