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You Make HOW Much? Getting Paid What You’re Worth
Wednesday, 1st October 2008 (by J.D.)This article is about Career, Education, Money Hacks, Tools
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A little blurb in the 22 September 2008 issue of Newsweek caught my eye. Linda Stern writes that younger workers are becoming more comfortable about sharing their salary information with friends and co-workers. She points out that it’s also possible to make more generalized salary comparisons using web tools like:
- Glassdoor.com, which allows employees to share salaries and review employers. (You must register to see details, though.)
- Salary.com, which offers a wide range of employment info, including an analysis of salaries for various positions.
- Payscale.com supplies free or premium salary reports. It also offers a variety of tools (like this cost-of-living calculator) and other resources.
- SalaryScout.com, “a network of users seeking fairness in compensation and benefits.” SalaryScout includes an interesting world map of salaries (which means, yes, that it’s not just for the U.S.).
I haven’t used any of these services (they’re not likely to have information for “professional blogger”), but they could be useful for many people. PayScale, in particular, seems to have a good balance of information and usability. I’ve wasted a fair amount of time paging through their 2008 college salary report, which includes topics like:
- Top salary potential by type of school
- Degrees that pay you back (Chemical engineering, computer engineering, electrical engineering, aerospace engineering…Hmm. Notice a trend?)
- Most popular jobs by degree (Number one for psych majors like me? “Administrative assistant” — Ouch!)
- Top salary potential by school location
There are other career-enhancement tools available on the web, too. For example, Indeed bills itself as the “search engine for jobs”.
Indeed gives job seekers free access to millions of employment opportunities from thousands of websites. Indeed.com includes all the job listings from major job boards, newspapers, associations and company career pages — and we continue to add new sites every day.
Meanwhile, the Occupational Outlook Handbook, which is published by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. This free resource can tell you the training and education needed for various careers, typical earnings and job prospects, what workers do on the job, and more.
For more tips on how to boost your salary or find a better job, check out the Get Rich Slowly career category, which includes great posts like these:
- Reader success story: How I gave myself a raise
- Network your way to job security
- The informational interview: A job-hunter’s secret weapon
- How to quit your job gracefully
- Requesting (and receiving) the raise you deserve
- Salary secrets and myths
And, of course, always feel free to share your experiences here, and to the pick the brains of your fellow readers.
34 Responses to “You Make HOW Much? Getting Paid What You’re Worth”
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October 1st, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Most popular jobs by degree makes me realize that I should emigrate to the US soon: proofreaders paid $ 43000?? Wow. And ouch…
October 1st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I’ve never ever shared my salary information with coworkers - unless we no longer work together. It just makes for bad blood overall. I’m wary about sharing that information with anyone but close friends and immediate family, too - to me, salary is just something personal. Now, that said, I have readily submitted my salary information to AIGA because I feel that it is important to know what the median income levels are for a particular job in a particular location (I’m a graphic designer).
October 1st, 2008 at 12:21 pm
JD,
State Employment Departments also publish a Salary Database/Survey to the public. I know Oregon has one but for some reason I cannot find it right now. It is somewhere in http://www.employment.oregon.gov/
-Charlotte
October 1st, 2008 at 12:24 pm
I found it! For example, for my profession as “Industrial Engineer” in Washington County, Oregon:
http://www.qualityinfo.org/olmisj/OIC?areacode=4105000002&rpttype=short&action=report&occ=172112&go=Continue
It aslo lists current job openings, job growth, etc. Great resource!!!
October 1st, 2008 at 12:29 pm
All Federal Jobs are discoverable. Pretty much everyone knows close to what people make because jobs are paid according to a grade and step.
Though JD, you can happily know that according to payscale’s site, your humble resident economist is in the 85th percentile for economists! (at least in pay. Work quality…maybe 55th :P)
October 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I never quite understand the criteria that US News and other “best of” publications use when ranking the colleges with the best job placement and highest starting salaries, etc.
The college that I went to Maine Maritime Academy, is a fully accrediated engineering college with average starting salaries above $60,000 and near 100% job placement within 6 months of college for at least the last 15 years!
October 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm
‘Number one for psych majors like me? “Administrative assistant” ‘
Really? And here I thought it would have been barista….
October 1st, 2008 at 1:18 pm
‘Number one for psych majors like me? “Administrative assistant” ‘
Really? And here I thought it would have been barista….
HA!
Actually, it’s probably “blogger”…
October 1st, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Also, sorry about that 17 minute extra post. That wasn’t meant to go live today, but much later in the month. My mistake.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Got to love being an engineer. Four years of no sleep in college, but you get to demolish stuff for a living and have a job that “pays you back”. The first example of “delayed gratification”.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm
so they ask me to input my degree and educational institution. and you’d think that a phd from a well known university would be enough. but no, then they show me an ad for MORE education! and my mind screamed, “noooooo!”
i forget what happened after that.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:39 pm
I never believe these things. All the statistics say I make about twice the average salary for the area in which I live, but I can’t even come close to affording to buy a “median” priced house. Unless only the top paid 10% of people can afford to buy houses, but that can’t be true — there are too many houses for 10% of people to buy.
I know the housing market is all wonky right now, but it seems like half the cars on the road are new BMWs or similar cars, too, and I don’t feel like I could afford those, either.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:42 pm
absolutely agree that young workers are becoming more comfortable with sharing salaries. i notice the older workers look down on me when i discuss pay inequity between women and men, but the younger workers totally get it and offer up their own experiences voluntarily.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Agree with DD - how am I supposed to know if I’m getting paid fairly if I don’t talk about it? (I’m female in a predominantly male workplace).
They’d totally pull the Ledbetter stuff on my sorry butt if I failed to catch some big inequity!
October 1st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
If you live in Massachusttess check out what some city and state workers make.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/
Click on your tax dollars at work about a quarter of the way down on the left.
See where the toll takers get $70,000!!
October 1st, 2008 at 2:05 pm
There’s also the foreign labor certification data center for U.S. pay scales. Immigrating workers have to be paid 100% of the standard rate, so this lists the “standard rate” by region and job category.
http://www.flcdatacenter.com/
The search wizard is the easiest way to use it.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:27 pm
@Charolette
I am also an “Industrial Engineer” but on the other side of the country in Baltimore, MD! I make slightly above the 50% range for the area and I’ve only been working a little over 1 year. I’m pretty happy with that.
@J.D.
Out of curiosity, what range of salary does a “professional blogger” make? Can you give some insight on how you got started and what kind of blogs you run?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:40 pm
So… I take it you are not part of the younger generation? What DO you make yearly as a blogger? Just curious.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Looks like Willamette didn’t make the cut, although I imagine it’d fall somewhere along the lines of Reed ($40,500) and Lewis & Clark ($38,900). Don’t know where you started out JD, but it’s pretty much right on for me. The joys of being a statistic!
October 1st, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Speaking from experience, I’d tell people to get over the discomfort and share. Infirmation.com (which has since been bought) started this trend a good 6-8 years ago in the legal field. And while there are bad aspects to it that one might argue could cut against lawyers in the long run, I can tell you that it has been nothing but advantageous in the short-run. Basically, law firm lawyers have in depth knowledge of pay scales at all the top firms in all cities, including bonus structures. Employers like to use your lack of knowledge against you. These sites can help reverse the trend.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Hi JD,
I 100% agree. Younger workers I think look at themselves more as free agents, go where the money is. This also makes them more likely to discuss it with like minded individuals.
Derrick
October 1st, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I don’t understand the arguments about sharing salary information making for “bad blood” overall. That might have made sense when people could reasonably expect to work for a company for a long time. Now, people change jobs much more often; the median is 4 years. It depends on the field; most people I interviewed with thought my 4.5 years with company A was a long time (it made up for my 11 months with company B).
I left company A when their own technical recruiter told me they weren’t paying me fairly and I would have to leave to get fair compensation. Keeping silent about salary mostly helps the people who pay it.
October 1st, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I have never understood the people who “don’t feel right to talk about their salary”.
I always tell people how much I make and I always ask them what they make…
And it isn’t that I am bragging that I make a lot of money - just the opposite - Im a college student without a steady job.
Knowing how much others make helps you to ask the right salary!
October 1st, 2008 at 7:13 pm
@ Deadala:
Basically, when I say that sharing that information with the people you are currently working with, I should have been more forthcoming. In my instance, I design as well as manage a number of designers. I know what they make because I can approve/disapprove salary increases for them at their annual reviews. I had one coworker ask me what I made and I refused to say because this was a person I was directly managing. Even if I wasn’t managing that person, however, I wouldn’t discuss my salary with them because it can create inter-office turmoil.
Let’s say I told my coworker, John Doe, that I made $X dollars per year. If he makes less than me, he may think that unfair, but there are other considerations that go into salary (I’m talking in terms of my type of job only - graphic designer) - such as experience, knowledge, ability to bring new ideas, reliability and responsibility. I would hope that John Doe has the sense about him to look into public documentation concerning graphic design salaries (like AIGA, for example) to see whether he is being paid comparably to others, and *not* look to his immediate coworkers.
It makes a much better argument in a review to say “The figures from the ‘2008 Survey of Design Salaries’ for our location state that I am making X% below the median salary. I have done X, Y and Z to show that I am a benefit to this company, and I would like to request a salary increase.” If a designer came to me and said “I should make X because so-and-so is making X”, it would show an extreme lack of tact.
This all said, I go back to my original statement that people *should* share their salaries/location, anonymously, with official organizations - such as the AIGA, in a design field - that collect salary information for the benefit of those in a particular field.
October 1st, 2008 at 8:27 pm
If everyone knew what everyone else made wouldn’t that help everyone else make more?
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:18 am
@Bill[15]:
You couldn’t pay me enough to breath car exhaust fumes all day.
I fully agree that lack of salary information only hurts employees and helps employers get away with underpaying good employees. Sharing of salary information can only help employees. That said, should individual employees share salary information among themselves?
First, at least in a large workplace, you’re likely to only get part of the picture. What if you just happen to work with the top people in your group? You get a skewed representation of what the “average” salary is.
Second, the transition from a secretive workplace to an open workplace would likely immediately reveal large pay differences for the same job. This can be due to almost anything, and not necessarily a reflection on the person. (Other than the fact that they maybe didn’t fight for a better salary.)
I know in my old workplace, people who started at different times would end up with large discrepancies in pay, simply because they had different expectations for “acceptable” pay when they got hired. And your hiring salary determines your potential growth within the company, since most raises are percentage-based.
I think the best solution to this would actually be to put the onus on the employers. If it becomes common practice to provide the median and average salary for a job description, it would break the secrecy without the potential for inner-office conflict. And once an office becomes open enough and pay for each employee align together, then the need even to talk about it among employees goes away, because everyone already knows where they are on the scale.
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:35 am
The first question people in my country (Vietnam) will ask you when they want to know you is: how much do you earn for living? For that reason, talking about someone’s salary is very opened in my country. When I had my first salary increased - I am working in US now, I told my co-workers and friends about that because I was happy (yeah, how could I not be happy when I was paid more) and I wanted to share with my friends my happiness. One of my co-workers immediately told me that I should have not done it and never should do it again. She said it’s because two reasons:
- People will think that I am a snob who is bragging about how good she is, and the most important thing is:
- There are people who has worked in my company for such a long time and never had a raise. Since I am very new and my salary is actually more than some others, they will get jealous and it might not be good for the company’s work flows in term of team working, and especially not good for our boss. Our boss might get sued for paying someone higher than someone else - that’s call discrimination I think.
After thinking for awhile, I think that my friend was right and so I only tell my husband, my in-law and my family in Vietnam about how much I earn now. I believe that someone should get paid based on his/her experience, works have been done for the company, quality of the work and willingness to make the company better. It should not be based on neither the working period nor because I know that my co-worker earns this much so you have to pay me that much.
In my country, when someone works for the government sector, the government has a salary scale/table to calculate how much an employee gets paid. This range is kinda like the pay banding or grade in US government, except it’s pretty much based on how long a person has been working with the company. The longer time working someone has, the higher salary that person earns. The government salary is also based a little on education: someone earns less if he/she has only a bachelor degree. That person can earn more if he/she get a master degree or a higher degree. The salary is just a tiny bit or not at all based on how experience someone is.
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:39 am
I think issues can come up when person A & B both have the same job title and responsibilities, but A is a better employee and B is just average. Well, over a year or two they will have salary discrepancy of a few K, maybe more. This works against both A & B. Because B feels like a loser, while A feels that B is dumb, but is only makes a few K less. Meaning all the extra work that A does is not really worth it.
-ThatGuy
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 am
J.D.,
If you want to join the rest of us in comparing how much we earn, you should read this article from Slate.com about how much bloggers earn.
http://www.slate.com/id/2201325/
Although you may be better off not learning that Perez Hilton makes 111,000 a month. Please don’t dye your hair pink and start posting mean comments about Britney Spears.
October 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I’m 27, white female, electrical engineer with about 5 years of experience. I still feel “weird” discussing my salary with coworkers and friends, but I do discuss it sometimes. Mostly it comes up with my husbands friends that are still in school and are going for engineering.
I think it’s important to know where you’re ranked among your coworkers. I really don’t know what my coworkers make except for a few, but we all know where we stand against the average in the sites mentioned above.
I think with the younger generation, we don’t plan on accepting the little annual raises. We all know that the big bucks lie with a new company. Many people leave for big bucks and come back for even bigger bucks. The engineers that I work with will check the salary sites mentioned above, before we interview so we have a better idea of what pay to request.
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I’m a mechanical engineer, graduated May ‘08, started working in June. Pay was something that everyone discussed openly when we all were looking for jobs and accepting offers. I had a 45k figure in my head as minimum from the info I was gathering from my peers, I ended up accepting a position in the mid 50’s which is very close to the figures listed above. I think discussing salaries is key to ensure that people are being compensated fairly at least when entering the workplace for the first time.
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:59 pm
If you’re a student who doesn’t quite know what career they want, check out What Color Is Your Parachute (revised for every year).
Worth the money. And take the time to do the exercises to figure out what your preferred career should be.
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Not talking about how much you make ONLY helps the boss. They get to screw you out of paying you what you’re worth.
October 6th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I am a 30 year old female engineer with 8 years of experience. I do not discuss my salary with others inside my company because so much goes into a salary other than years at the company.
I have found that the salary websites are often bloated and unreliable. There is more to base pay, such as flex time, out of pocket medical expenses - things that just don’t go into a base salary.
Does the fancy job with all the money you were just offered require an on call cell phone? How about 60 plus hours a week? You will find how quickly that pay raise means nothing when you don’t have your weekends anymore.
Recent graduates will find nice salaries to start out because more often than not,they are replacing older engineers (who were more expensive than your base pay). Once you reach my age you may find it will take years layoff, after layoff, to reach your original pay base.
With that, I do not fault younger engineers who leave for more money. You have to worry about #1. I can assure you, your employer will only be thinking of themselves at layoff time. If you don’t mind all the travel, weekend work, and on call cell phone - go for it! You are young, and if smart, can save tons of money to put yourself in a better position later.