Most of the time, the talk about the housing bubble and the credit crisis and the faltering U.S. economy seem rather abstract to me, as if people were discussing a problem in Canada or Mexico. Or Norway. I’ve spent the past four years focused on my own financial situation, ignoring the outside world. The national economy often seems remote from my own personal economy.
But there are millions of average people who have been affected by this country’s fiscal woes. My little brother, Tony, is one of those average people. He’s in dire financial straits.
In 2004, Tony bought a house in Portland for $415,000. In 2006, he got a new job in central Oregon, so he moved his family to Bend. He put the Portland house on the market. He intended to rent a place in Bend until his existing home sold, but then he found a house he liked. He applied for a loan and was approved. He bought the house.
The house in Portland never sold.
For the past two years, Tony has been making $5200 in mortgage payments every month. Or, lately, not making the payments. He ran out of money long ago. Tony agreed to let me interview him yesterday in order to share his story with GRS readers.
Note: Tony knows he made some poor choices, and he blames himself for his current problems. He’s candid that he should have been paying more attention to his finances. But looking back to 2006, he doesn’t understand why the bank approved him for the mortgage on the Bend house before the one in Portland sold. It seems like the bank was betting on that sale, too.
J.D.: How are things going?
Tony: What do you mean? They’re not going very well. The house in Bend was foreclosed on yesterday. The one in Portland is for sale again.
J.D.: You weren’t able to sell the house over there, huh?
Tony: No. Plus we consulted with a lawyer, and he said we should just give it back because of the tax ramifications.
J.D.: I don’t understand.
Tony: Well, it would be a short sale. To give you an idea, we put the house up for sale at $299,000, and we paid $380,000 for it. So what you do is you do a short sale — the mortgage company has to agree to it — but the government considers the difference as money that was given to you. It’s taxable income.
J.D.: When did you buy the house in Bend?
Tony: It cost $380,000 in September 2006.
J.D.: And how much was the mortgage?
Tony: Roughly $2400 a month. There were two mortgages.
J.D.: When the bank forecloses on it, what happens?
Tony: We’ve been out of the house for a while. We’re living with my wife’s parents. From what my lawyer says, there’s nothing the bank can do to us. They’ll essentially just take the house and then auction it off at the courthouse steps. There’s no other ramifications to me. There are several houses that are being foreclosed on in our neighborhood. One that went to foreclosure and was auctioned off sold for $230,000.
J.D.: Was it the same kind of house that would have gone for $380,000 in 2006?
Tony: Yeah. It’s the exact same house as ours except it has a two-car garage and ours was a three-car garage.
J.D.: Holy cats. That’s like a 40% drop in two years!
Tony: I know.
Note: In 2006, Bend had one of the hottest real-estate markets in the country. Now it’s fallen on hard times. Again, most of Tony’s problems come from the fact that he gambled by not selling his first house before buying a second one. Back then, this didn’t seem like it would be a problem.
J.D.: You wouldn’t have been in such a bad situation except you haven’t been able to sell your Portland house, right?
Tony: Yes.
J.D.: And how much did you buy that house for?
Tony: We bought it for $415,000 at the end of 2004. We still owe the bank $367,000. We’re paying $2800 a month.
J.D.: And you tried to put it on the market when you moved to Bend, right?
Tony: Well, on the advice of our Realtor, we put it on the market for $585,000, because that’s what she said that it would go for.
J.D.: And that was in the summer of 2006?
Tony: Yes. Then after the house had been on the market for a month, we got an offer at $500,000.
J.D.: And you turned that down?
Tony: It was turned down but not by me. The Realtor got it as a verbal offer and said that she told them “no” because she could get more for it. She informed us that they had made a verbal offer a week after they made it. Then last September we almost had it sold at $480,000 but the deal fell through because it was based on whether or not the couple sold their house. Guess what didn’t happen?
J.D. And that’s when you started renting the house. [For the past year, Tony has been renting the house to a friend, trying to defray some of the mortgage expense.] What do you have it on the market for now?
Tony: We have it on the market for $499,000. We just put it on the market last weekend, but we already have somebody interested in it.
J.D.: If that sells, does it get you out of your bind?
Tony: It helps, but it doesn’t necessarily get us out of the bind. Some of that money would go to the Realtor. Plus we owe money to other people. [Tony borrowed money from various family members.] And then there are our normal bills, which are behind. So even if we sell, it doesn’t solve the problem, but it does help.
Note: You know how the power of compound interest can help you save? Well, it works in reverse too. People in credit card debt understand that. Tony’s learning that the damage from mistakes can compound, too. What started as a small problem — needing to sell the Portland house — has mushroomed out of control. Things just keep getting worse…
J.D.: A couple months ago, you mentioned that you’re doing some sort of consumer credit counseling or something. How does that work?
Tony: Not very well. It’s not a debt consolidation place, but it kind of is. These guys are for profit. They piss me off. They told me they settled a Bank of America account for me, but I keep getting letters from Bank of America saying the account is not settled. So this place drafts money out of my account every month to pay the people we owe — it’s kind of forced savings, in a sense — but I won’t let them draft any more until they give me written proof that they’ve settled with Bank of America.
You know, this is my own frickin’ fault for not paying attention to exactly what was going on. I want to repay everyone because it’s my debt, but at the same time, it’s so frickin’ huge, I don’t know how I’ll ever do that.
J.D.: Why do you think you got in debt? Do you think it’s because of the house? Or do you think it’s other stuff?
Tony: There are several reasons that got us into debt. The first time we put the house on the market in Portland, we used credit cards to fix it up. We put a fence on it and that sort of stuff. The move here probably cost us $8,000. The idea was when we the house sold, that’d be paid back right away. The house never sold. Then we got ourselves into a situation where we had double mortgages.
J.D.: Oh yeah. What was the mortgage on the Portland house?
Tony: $2800. You do the math there. So, we had double mortgages, and we’re doing whatever we can to pay them both, praying that the house in Portland will sell. So we borrow from people. Slowly but surely, the amount we can beg, borrow, or steal keeps dwindling. I finally said, “This is is not going to work. We’ve got to do something different.”
J.D.: Were you having problems with debt before?
Tony: Before we moved from Portland? No. We were actually okay. We were financially okay. Did we have credit card debt? Yeah. Was it manageable? Yeah. Could we make all our monthly payments? Yes. Did we have extra spending money after we made our monthly payments? Yes. We weren’t paying off our debt extremely fast, but we weren’t building debt. You know what I mean?
J.D.: To me, you guys typify all the problems that are going on with the economy at large. You guys are the ones we know most being affected by it. Do you pay attention to the economic news at all?
Tony: Hell yeah — every day!
J.D.: What do you think about it?
Tony: I was just talking about this with my wife the other day. I don’t know if it’s because of what I’ve been going through or what, but my personal opinion is that we’re not looking at a recession. We’re looking at a depression.
J.D.: And what’s going to happen for you guys if there is a depression?
Tony: To be honest with you, I have no clue. I’m scared.
My heart aches for my little brother. Obviously, Tony is not a “victim” — I don’t think he’d claim to be — but he is one very real part of the ongoing credit crisis. To me, he’s the average American. He wasn’t pro-active. He was eager to have a new house, so he bought one before the old house sold. He didn’t have anything in savings, so he took a risk by financing his move on credit. Now, along with many others, he’s paying the price. I just hope he comes through this okay. Photo by respres.
This article is about Debt, House and Home, Real-Life
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“Note: Tony knows he made some poor choices, and he blames himself for his current problems. He’s candid that he should have been paying more attention to his finances. But looking back to 2006, he doesn’t understand why the bank approved him for the mortgage on the Bend house before the one in Portland sold. It seems like the bank was betting on that sale, too.”
This is EXACTLY why our housing market is in such a mess..
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The comments about the 2.5x gross annual have me a bit confused. I’m on the east coast (Baltimore / DC), and just the rent around here is nearly 900/month. (Thats with a roommate in a decent, but not great area). That translates to approximately 160 ~ 175k loan for a home (plus taxes). Based on my income, I should only be able to get a 135k home using the 2.5x method. The method would definately keep you responsible, but I’ve been able to save for a down payment and maintain a comfortable lifestyle while paying the rent and utilities. Why wouldn’t I be able to afford the 170k house, if those payments are already equivalent to what leaves my wallet for housing every month?
I feel like equations and rules shouldn’t necessarily be stead-fast as long as you are responsible with your personal finances.
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Chris H., making the monthly mortgage payment is only the start of home expenses. Utilities are always higher than when one is renting — heat, electricity, water/sewer, sometimes garbage pickup. And all those pesky and major maintenance issues that your landlord fixed before — those are now all your problem. (Next week we’re having a new roof put on for $12k.) Depending on the size of your yard, you’ll have outlay for a lawnmower, snowblower, and other lawn and garden equipment. I could go on and on. There are a lot of people with big houses with mattresses on the floors and empty rooms because they can’t afford to furnish the house. In Texas, I believe they call that all hat and no cattle.
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Thanks for sharing this story. This situation reminds me how close I could have come to making the same error, if only I wasn’t such a suspicious and paranoid person.
When my husband and I were looking to buy a home in 2004, we were approved for a loan for over $750k. With an income of $120k a year, we realized that it would not be wise to purchase a home for over $550k, despite the fact that we could have technically been approved for a home that cost a lot more and had a very good amount of put down on the home. We aren’t the most financially savvy people but we could certainly sense that if we went whole hog and purchased a much more expensive home we would eventually end up putting ourselves in financial jeopardy down the line. So, we ended up buying a small two bedroom, one bath bungalow for $525k (we live in California here, folks). It’s cramped and not in the very best section of town but it was a realistic option for us. There is a part of me that finds it hard to believe that all these other people who were offered tremendous loan amounts couldn’t also have figured this out. My sense is that a lot of people are just living in a state of unreality and not accepting what really is. This may or not have been the case with your brother; only he knows that.
I’m glad you shared this story though. We are now thinking about moving to a larger home and had considered moving into a new place before selling our current home. After reading what happened to your brother, we will certainly hold off on doing that and find a buyer first. I really hope that American learns from this mess.
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To PDXgirl, post 96
To Chris H., post 102
Both of you make good points. The 2.5x income rule to determine how much mortgage you can afford is far from perfect, but I bet it would keep lots of people out of trouble. Could make a good bumper sticker.
A better equation would be to limit mortgage/tax/insurance payments to 26-33% NET income. This would leave 66% of your remaining income to pay for all of life’s other needs. One third house, two thirds for everything else!
My mortgage/tax/insurance payment of $2200 is 22% of my net income, but I know many friends and coworkers who spend 40-50%+ of their net income on housing just to fit into a 3,700 sq.ft. McMansion with only 1 or 2 kids.
These people broke both the 2.5x rule AND the one third NET rule and no one was there to stop them. Maybe they simply didn’t know such guidelines are out there for a reason…to keep them out of trouble. Other people knowingly break these rules and choose posh lifestyles over financial security. It’s a personal choice (I suppose), but so is suicide.
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On an individual level it sounds like a tough situation and a painful lesson. But it’s hard to drum up much sympathy here; I’m one of those who didn’t buy. I’ve rented the same apartment for the last nine years and paid $120,000 in rent in that time, and all my friends would pity me for my less-than-fancy residence (which has 1250 sq ft of space, paid heat, peace and quiet, and lots of sun and working appliances). So now I get to help bail out everyone who can’t pay their mortgage, and bankers with fat paychecks. I lost my job a year ago; no one is bailing me out or helping me in any way. What I want to hear these mortgage defaulters admit is that they knew on some level they couldn’t afford it, chose to believe people who had their own interests, and thought they were entitled to own a home as an American “right” and not a privilege.
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Regarding the girl in the story in post #55:
“My father is on a fixed retirement income of only $3,853.80 a month”
Since when is a retirement income of almost $4,000/month characterized as “only?” Geez, I’d love to have a guaranteed pension income of $4,000/month when I retire. Newsflash: That’s a lot! Most retirees get a lot less than that!
“They have a mortgage balance of $145,000″
Why do they still owe money on a mortgage? What have they been doing all these years? Geez, they probably bought the house when it only cost $30,000, how come they haven’t been able to pay it off after 30 years? And why would they retire if they still owed so much on a house?
This really sounds like a classic case of people living way beyond their means, and refusing to adjust their lifestyle for a diminished income. $4,000/month (plus the mother’s $800/month retirement income, plus the mother’s part-time work income) should be waaaay more than enough for a retired couple.
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This could be my brother and his wife. They pay mortgages on an unoccupied rental house and their primary residence. Neither house is worth what they owe on it. Oh, and they are both “work” in real estate. Ouch.
Some people call it greed.
But I’m struck by the blind optimism that underlies these stories. My house is an no-risk investment. It will always rise in value. I’ll be able to sell my house when I want to. A bigger house is what I need and deserve. My income will never go down. I’ll never lose my job. If I move to this new place, my life will be so much better.
What’s missing is a healthy analysis of and aversion to risk. The equity in my house is just on paper: it’s not real money until I sell my house. My house is worth what someone else will pay for it. I need savings more than I need the lastest gadget or gizmo. I should diversify my investments rather than load up in a single sector that is booming right now. Moving is expensive: Is that the best way to spend my money?
I wonder if we’ll learn our lesson from this. Or will we go back to our old ways–blind optimism– when the housing market recovers?
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Your brother may have a possible law suit against the Realtor for rejecting the offer for him. That is a breach of a fiduciary duty, assuming the listing agreement didn’t give them the power to reject.
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Louisa, if you don’t mind me asking, why is their rental property unoccupied? Why not at least try to get something rather than nothing?
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The rental house is unoccupied because of damage from previous tenants. Not sellable in this market, not rentable and no money to make repairs. Oh, and it’s located over 100 miles away.
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Maybe I’m paranoid but I hate to hang onto a house. I’d rather fire sale the thing. Case in point. We finally finished remodeling my boyfriend’s house. It took 4 years. Rather than hang onto it, we sold it quickly (about 3 days). That way we don’t have to worry about a renter trashing all the brand new flooring, carpeting, walls, appliances, etc. nor will we have an empty house that we have to mow the lawn and maintain (mowing takes 4 hours).
We took the money and ran.
In May my mother passed away. Being a bit of a greedy gus, I had my family all pitch in to paint inside & out, replace carpet, fix roofing, clean, and do the estate sale. It took about 2 months (much of it the estate sale). We were able to pay ourselves a nice wage – all non-taxable!
Within 2 days the house was sold. I sold for $25,000 less than the same house down the street. And it was killer ready.
Gone. No more worries about paying the gardener (there was a huge garden and the need to for a mower which none of us had an extra) nor need to commute 45 minutes each way to clean, etc.
Having an extra house is a huge worry and overhead. Unless you want to have rental income and need to shelter extra money, don’t have an extra house.
Just my 2 cents.
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In respoinse to comment #55, the poster whose retired parents have an income of $3800/month:
Our take-income is right around $3750 per month. We are raising 4 children and expecting a 5th in the spring. We do not receive food stamps, WIC, free/reduced school lunch, heating assistance or any other form of assistance. We are able to pay our mortgage and utilities, buy groceries, pay a car payment, and still put $500/month into our emergency fund.
Your parents need to sell their home and buy or rent a smaller, more affordable home. They should be able to live comfortably on their current income. They don’t have any obligation to save the house for you and your sibling. If you want it,buy it at fair maket value.
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I was in the mortgage business through most of this mess. My title was actually “Director of Specialty Lending Group”. My job was to work with wholesale lenders to create the most flexible mortgage programs on the market. I’m not proud to say it now, but I funded loans where I knew the person wouldn’t be able to make their first payment! Looking back, I should have seen the black hole coming- When prices stop going up and people stop buying, this thing will come to a hault!
Chris Dunn
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Tony,
Sharing your story is a very brave and courageous thing to do especially exposing yourself to a wide variety of views, negative ones also.
Having lived in Bend briefly in ’05 coming from the Bay Area there were too many people buying up the homes causing overinflated home values. It’s understandable you got a new job and thought the old house would sell once you bought the new one. I wish you luck with your dillema. Sometimes it’s better to rent and watch from the sidelines how the homes are selling before taking the plunge.
I hope everything works out!
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Tony, I commend you for sharing your story. I wish you luck, and hope you and your family can dig out of this situation and get back on your feet. Kudos to you for sharing this and working through it.
I just want to point out to people that in many areas, and I suspect Portland is one of them, $415K (even in 2006) would not get you a McMansion. Here in eastern MA, it will get you an older three-bedroom house (actually, back in 2006, an older 3 BR house like my parents’ would go for $500K or so).
Yes, Tony made some unwise decisions, but haven’t we all? Instead of wagging our fingers and blathering about how these folks should lie in the beds they made, it may behoove us to realize that we’re not perfect and that we’ve all made mistakes, and may make some in the future. Jeez.
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“I can’t afford to keep paying greedy lenders exorbitant mortgage payments at the expense of everything else. I should never have been approved for the mortgages in the first place because it was obvious that I couldn’t afford them but the bank didn’t care about that back then. The stress isn’t worth it.”
You are kidding – right?? The bank is entirely to blame? If it was so obvious you couldnt afford the payments why did YOU take out the mortgage?
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I think he got some bad advice from his attorney about the short sale.
See here:
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=179073,00.html
He clearly qualifies for this based on the mortgage amount.
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I have more bad news for Tony – even if he sells the Portland home for $499k, he is going to have to pay tax on the gain based on his purchase price of $415k as he is not eligible for the exclusion on the gain on sale of a principal residence.
By his own admission he only lived there from late 2004 to summer of 2006 – less than the 2 years required for the full exclusion. He may be eligible for a reduced exclusion since he moved for a job, but he needs to get himself to a good CPA if he doesn’t use one already.
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i think A solution to this mess would be to force the lenders to make a mortgage the borrowers could afford at 1% interest. the bank will still make money. the borrower may have to extend the mortgage but he agreed to buy at that price. if the borrower still decides to let it go, he should face the consequences( bad credit, extra taxes due to short sale, etc.) instead of me having to pay higher taxes to let others off the hook for their bad decisions. I have made my own and still do. but i pay my debtsand am trying to turn my financial situation around.
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I think this is another open and shut case of, “Don’t buy things you can’t afford.”
Just follow this rule and a huge chunk of America’s financial problems go away.
Seriously. If you can’t afford to buy or make payments on something, why get it? What’s going through your head?
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Adam, a lot of this had to do with his house not selling. It was reasonable for him to expect a sale, as it’s reasonable for everyone with a house for sale to expect to be able to sell it; it was not taking the offers he received that got him into this.
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It is not “reasonable” to allocate money for spending that you do not currently have. Period.
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I’ve had realtors play games to ratchet up offers, and have reached a point where we insist on making a written offer. Which the realtor is legally obligated to give to the seller. We did that once. The sale fell through for other reasons but the realtor told us they wouldn’t accept our offer and we insisted on making it anyway.
Only realtors know the difference between a verbal offer and a written offer and they use it to jerk you around. And … I’m in New York City where $415,000 will get you a one bedroom apartment six blocks from the subway.
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I wound up buying when I didn’t want to – just BEFORE the bubble burst. I bought because no, it ISN’T always better to rent – not when the owner of the building sells it out from under you without warning. I paid more than I wanted to, even with putting down a good chunk of money, but even if I had to sleep on a mattress on the floor, it would have been better than not knowing where I was going to put my mattress. So I suck it up, KNOWING that I’m paying more than I should, and having to be grateful that I was in a position to buy. C’est la guerre.
For the folks at #55, if you want to keep the house you grew up in, buy it. My brothers and sister are sharing the house we grew up in; it’s doable.
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Wow, it’s interesting that the bank would give him another loan before his first house sold. We were very lucky, we went with a small well-established local lender and they flat out would not give us a loan until our house was completely sold. We may have been silly enough to go ahead and buy the new house we loved without closing on our first one if they had. I am glad they were “looking out for us” in a way.
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Not everyone is irresponsible and takes on loans they can’t afford. I chose to buy a smaller place in a great area in a big city (Chicago) while my friends were buying huge places in the suburbs. My realtor was told my budget was between 130k and 150k and showed me places only within it. I chose something in the low 130s and have not regretted it. Because I was self-employed I needed a no income verification loan and was shocked at how much I needed to prove in order to get it. I wonder how happy the bank is for approving me and me not turning into one of these people that couldn’t pay! While I lost my job, I had some money in savings and took a non-dream job in the meantime to ensure I could pay my bills while the economy settled, since my self-employment depends on a good economy and consumerism
There are honest realtors and mortgage lenders, and it is up to you to find them as well as educate yourself. My parents were poor and never taught me any financial knowledge, so I taught myself like JD.
Tony you can get out of the debt once you take responsibility for your actions, stop trying to gamble and profit and maybe take your brother’s advice on thrift. You made mistakes. Move on and learn from them.
Hopefully the crisis will pass, but I doubt people will ever learn to spend less than they earn.
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very heart wrenching tale…. how are things going now for your bro?
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