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What’s in the Ideal Personal Finance Book? Print
Tuesday, 28th October 2008 (by J.D.)This article is about Administration, Ask the Readers, Books
After months on the back-burner, I’ve begun to think about a potential Get Rich Slowly book again. The main problem is that there are already hundreds of personal finance books already on the shelves. How would mine be any different? Why would you (or your Aunt Josephine) pick up Get Rich Slowly: The Book and what would she get out of it?
I know what I like in a personal finance book, and I know why I find most of them so tedious. I’d love to hear from you, however. What do you like in a personal finance book? What do you find useful? What do you find un-useful?
- Do you like statistics and reference to scientific research?
- Do you like forms and worksheets?
- Do you like end-of-chapter checklists?
- Do you like personal anecdotes and stories of real-life people?
- Do you like information about the psychology of money?
What’s your favorite personal finance book and why? What do you like about it?
For myself, I do not like forms and worksheets. I hate end-of-chapter checklists. (Even more, I hate quizzes.) I do like stats and research, and I especially like to hear about the psychology of money. It helps me to know that everyone tends to consider sunk costs. And, most of all, I like practical information that I can use to make my life better.
I like books like The Total Money Makeover that offer real-world tips and address actual behavior instead of books written by suits who think my life is such that I can always make the optimal choice.
Imagine the ideal personal finance book. What’s it like?
October 28th, 2008 at 11:40 am
My thought is does anyone really stick to the ideas that are taught in a personal finance book? It’s like the first of the new year and exercise. Two month’s later all forgotten.
http://www.101WaystoMagnetizeMoney.com
October 28th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I do like forms, worksheets and some statistics. I don’t like end of chapter checklists, but do like personal stories of “real” people and their failures as well as successes. I like short chapters that can stand alone; something that can be read in a few minutes and then mulled over for a while. Before-and-after, whether stats, pictures or other details. Large format paperback about 150 pages long.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:56 am
My favorite PF books are Your Money or Your Life and Millionaire Next Door. Though I’ve read many many PF books I don’t think I’ve ever done any of the worksheets / checklists. I think the most interesting things are personal stories and things that are counterintuitive (like Millionaires not spending a lot etc.).
I think your real niche could be the blog aspect. Most people don’t read blogs (or even know what a blog is). The community dialog that accompanies your posts can be a real point of difference in a PF book.
Good luck!
October 28th, 2008 at 11:57 am
The ideal personal finance book is the one that makes you achieve your personal finance goals. How that happens will vary from person-to-person. You could use market research to help find what is most effective and least effective in the general population, but any one person’s mileage will vary.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
D’oh! I wrote this post a month ago, but only put it up today. In the meantime, I forgot an important conversation I had with Tim Clark from Soul Shelter. He and I were discussing the self-help books we found most motivational. Like many people, we’re fans of Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. This is a fantastic book, and part of it is because Carnegie uses short chapters that address a single point, and then backs up his points with tons of anecdotes.
In some ways, that’s how The Total Money Makeover works. It’s also how books like The Magic of Thinking Big or Feeling Good work. (Though the latter does not have short chapters!)
I’ve been thinking a GRS book like this might be good. And, best of all, as Adrienne suggests, it could be completed with the help of GRS readers — taking real-life success stories to use as anecdotes.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
The more I think about the idea of “personal finance” the more I realize that it’s not about “finance” at all. What you’re really talking about is doing a large body of work — your life’s work even, and exchanging that work for the rest of the things you need (or want) to live. Basically, we all have a finite amount of lifetime. We trade part of this for money, and then we trade that money for enhancements to the lifetime that we still have left.
I’m far more interested in the idea of how to make a lifetime fulfilling than I am in the specifics of managing money while I have it. It’s also a much harder question. Managing money is relatively easy, you can do some mostly basic math and come up with answers. The much harder questions are things like “Is the amount of my life that I’m trading for the amount of money I’m getting worth it?” or “how do I get big chunks of time in which to spend my money, while still being able to come back six months or a year later and start earning it again?”
That would be interesting for me to read. How do I get the ability to break up my retirement into a long series of “one year on, six months off” sort of stints, without sacrificing the quality of the work I can get in the “one year on” parts?
Things like “how do I save money on powdered cocoa” or “why index funds are more efficient than actively managed funds” have already been done a million times, and are, to me, less interesting.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I think the hardest thing about writing personal finance books it that personal finance is basically common sense. All material has already been covered. The slew of books out there simply clog the system and prevent people from getting to the useful information.
The truth is, if you follow three to five basic guidelines, you can take complete control of your finances.
The reason everyone isn’t financially stable or successful is because finance isn’t mostly about information, it’s mostly about behavior.
So, if you were going to write a personal finance book (and attempt to avoid making it like everyone else’s), I’d strictly try to center the book around behavior while covering the legitimate principles that people need to know.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
As someone who is easily overwhelmed by financial acronyms and mumbo jumbo, I prefer personal financial books that speak my language: plain English.
I don’t mind end of chapter checklists because I think it’s important to summarize information in an easy-to-read list.
I also like personal stories, but it’s all got to be well-written (without mumbo jumbo).
October 28th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I really like the personal stories, inspirational and educational ones that I can relate to (much like a lot of the material on your website!)
October 28th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I’m with Adrienne re: YMOYL and MND. I’ll add “Getting a Life” (http://www.yourmoneyoryourlife.org/resource-fom.asp?sku=bgal&mexp=related) and Amy D’s Tightwad books to the list, because it covered a lot of ground that the child-free YMOYL authors didn’t.
And I agree with Tyler, too — the most important things that I learned from these books were new ways to think about money and its role in my life. I don’t do everything the books say, by any means, and I have to manage my finances in a way that works for me. However, I learned ways of thinking about and using money that still seem almost counter-culture (although becoming more mainstream in this wacky economy), or even anti-capitalist. And I learned that there were a lot of quiet people who were doing these very things all around me, so I wouldn’t be alone in avoiding the affluenza.
Lots of books have nit-picky how-to information, and that’s important, and most people won’t buy a book that doesn’t have detailed steps to follow, but that’s not the important stuff. Once your overall goals, aspirations, and actions are going the right direction, the details of the tasks aren’t as important, and you can customize them as you like.
Going back to the diet book analogy — two of my favorites are Dr. Phil’s book and You On a Diet by Drs. Oz and Roizen. They talk about how your brain and body work to make you fat and what needs to change to lose weight and keep it off. They both have diets associated with them, because dieters demand a magic program that they can try to follow forever that will make them thin. But those aren’t the important parts.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
specific, easy to read, and humorous..
getting loaded by peter beilagus is one of my favorite (and unknown) personal finace books because of the light humor he uses.. it doesn’t bore you to death like others
i do hope you make a book JD.. i’ll buy it for sure.. i know there are hundreds of books out there on the subject.. but it’s always good to refresh some of this stuff into your memory from time to time
October 28th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
I agree, checklists & worksheets are worthless to me.
I like the behavioral stuff. Stories are good. I *really* like great studies and charts though. (Though, as a tax professional, I’m probably not the normal reader…)
October 28th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
J.D.,
Didn’t you profile your unassuming, rich neighbor, and wasn’t that one of the best received blogs you’ve done? I think your answer is right there- people want to hear real-life examples of Dave Ramsey’s “Live like no one else lives, so you can live like no one else can” mantra.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
J.D.
The simple fact is, anything you want to say about personal finance has already been said. And that is exactly why you should write your book! Delivery is what sells books.
A best selling book has less to do with content, and more to do with personal brand. When I look at your site I see that you have 66000 RSS subscribers, who knows how many daily readers, and one hell of a lot of fans.
Write content that has quality and resonates with you just like you do in your blog, and you will have an endless amount of buyers.
People won’t read your book because it has better content than others, they will read it loyally because they have a relationship with you and your writing in general, and as a result will take action and follow through because they believe in you.
If you would like to talk publishing, pro’s and con’s of self publishing and selling to a publisher, feel free to drop me a line. nolan [at] nolanmatthias [dot] com
Best of luck,
Nolan Matthias
October 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Kevin nailed it.
It is all about common sense.
The most successful personal finance book doesn’t even need to be a book. It could be a single sheet of paper.
1) eliminate debt from your life
2) keep your finances simple
3) pay attention to what you are doing with your money.
That is pretty much it. In reading several books and blogs I have come away with general guidelines that I follow.
I don’t borrow money. I keep things as simple as possible. I try to have as few monthly bills as possible so I bundle items, such as insurance and TV/Phone into single bills. And I am reminded to be aware of what I am spending, whether it be on utilities, food, fuel, etc.
I don’t budget, because to me that complicates things. I simply buy what I need or want and don’t go overboard and I always pay cash (or debit card)
It really is very simple once you “get it”
October 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I like stats if they are relevant, especially if you can then give some sort of real life story to further illustrate the point you’re making with the stats. I love information about money and emotions.
I guess I’m a dork, but I like worksheets and checklists, just because I think they’re fun.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
These are great comments, folks. Thank you.
@kick_push
Humor is hard to write. I try it a lot, but ultimately end up axing it. When I do let it through, there’s a large chunk of the readership that doesn’t get that I’m trying to be funny. (Maybe it’s too subtle?) On the other hand, there are times I know I’ve nailed it, usually when I’m in total self-deprication mode (like in “The Worst Job I Ever Had”).
October 28th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I would recommend staying true to the idea behind GRS and let that guide the format of the book. Don’t try to alter GRS into a familiar personal finance book template. Might be more work, but would definitely be worth it.
What I like best about GRS is the devotion to the psychology behind money and behaviors. I like the insights about real world practice of personal finance (like your aside about buying a door and the garden project). I like the breadth of topics and I like the guest bloggers who chime in from time to time.
To me, most personal finance books feel like they are written by wealthy condescending Ivy league grads intended for other wealthy condescending Ivy league grads. GRS is about real life.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
I really like “real world” examples of how people screwed up, but then fixed it. Or, success stories. I also like little, simple hints or factoids that I can see some immediate gratification from.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
I agree that a lot of information is common sense and a lot of it is repeated. I don’t like reading a lot of stats, but a few here and there can help get a point across. I don’t use the worksheets, but they can give you an idea of how to set up one of your own.
I’ve taken ideas from Dave Ramsey as well as a few other ideas from other books. I think it helps to keep revisiting favorite books to keep your focus and to stay motivated.
So, the ideal PF book for me? It’s written in everyday language. Chapters are focused on specific ideas that don’t necessarily have to be read in order. A book that can be referred to over and over again.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
I agree with Tyler (#6). As I learn more about PF, I am beginning to understand that it’s about alot more than money. However, I still need nuts and bolts information about how to manage my cash. So my ideal book would have two goals:
1. Determine what you REALLY want. (A 12 month on, six month off work schedule for example)
2. Understand the steps needed to get there. (This is where the nuts and bolts information comes in.)
The book would be written with the understanding that people will go through this process several times in their lifetimes.
Also, I really enjoyed the ‘two scoops of hot chocolate’ post. I am learning to see frugality as a game (rather than a set of sacrifices to be endured) and I enjoy learning about how other people play it.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
I like personal anecdotes and stories of real-life people and information about the psychology of money. I also like the informal tone you have on the web site. Don’t lose your voice if you write a book.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
I’m going to go against the grain here and say that Eric Tyson’s Personal Finance for Dummies was the best book on personal finance I ever read.
Why?
* Cartoons.
* Practical focus.
* I found the format very readable and organized. (I realize this may make me strange.)
Another thing I realize may sound strange is that I’m wondering why everyone is praising anecdotes and testimonials. Maybe I’m too jaded by Amway/Quixtar, Shaklee, “Gifting Clubs”, and so on? One or two testimonials in the first chapter I’ll skim. By the third, I’m looking to see if there’s ANYTHING in the book besides testimonials and “have faith in my system and you’ll be rich” — because frankly, if that’s all there is, it’s either a scam or it’s fluff. Neither of which is useful!
October 28th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
I love anecdotes about people. I always like those “money makeovers” in money magazine, and they give me ideas that I can apply to my own situation. I’d include your story and ask for reader volunteers and profile them. You could get a sampling of people from around the country that way, and it would tie things back to the blog and drive traffic.
I am totally over stuff like “ten ways to blah blah blah” and titles that read like the first day of magazine journalism 101. Real stories are so much better.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Truth be told, i have never read one. Not saying you shouldn’t write one, but maybe onsider the angle of, “How do i grab someone who’s never read a PF book before?”
i would think having the ability to read the chapters independently of each other would be a must (like the website), giving information on where to get MORE information would be a must (like the website)…
If there was only some way you could do alt-text in a book!
Good luck, JD!
October 28th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
@JenK re: anecdotes and testimonials — I didn’t see that much praise of testimonials — those tend to be pretty bland and overly optimistic, but I’ll speak in defense of the anecdotal stories.
I steal all good ideas, and managing money in real life requires a lot of tricks and strategies. The more tools I have in my toolbelt to try when situations arise, the better. I love reading about how families handle their finances, especially regarding kids. I also like reading about how other families do radical things to make their lives work — it opens my mind regarding what’s acceptable and what’s possible, even if we only make small changes ourselves. Even hearing about challenges other families have faced help me think through situations with more insight.
I guess the danger would be in getting enough details to provide food for thought, without getting bogged down. On the other hand, sketchy success stories make it all seem like magic if you only follow the author’s magic advice.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I like charts. That’s one of the reasons I enjoyed YMOYL and Yes, You Can Get A Financial Life! by Ben Stein and Phil DeMuth.
I like personal stories, but not ones that are thrown into the middle of a chapter and cause me to break the flow of my reading and skip around pages. It is also better when the story has some actual relation to the subject matter of that chapter. TMMO is one of my favorite PF books, but the testimonials were thrown in pretty haphazardly.
I like PF books that say “do this first, then do this next” etc, and then give reasons why this order of things is best. YMOYL and TMMO are both great with this. Debt-Proof Living and The Automatic Millionaire, not so much. Yes, You Can Get A Financial Life! is good in that it lays it out by your age in decades, but if you’re already in your 50s, it’s probably not so helpful. There is another great little PF book, the first one I ever read, that had step-by-step instructions: Make Your Paycheck Last.
The problem with a step-by-step guide is that you, JD Roth, don’t seem to have an original one. But that’s ok. I think you would do better with a more personal approach.
Maybe you can write an updated version of The Richest Man in Babylon except in a fantasy or sci-fi setting?
October 28th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I like to hear what has worked for other people, and the more like me (single parent) they are the better. I don’t like the title “Get Rich Slowly”, because it doesn’t fit with societies view of money and the Slowly may be a deterrent. There is a level of anxiety that goes with money. The economy is on an unpredictable roller coaster ride, and that leaves an air of uncertainty about tomorrow, so building wealth slowly in an unstable world is not an option. I like to learn methods in laymen terms that are tried and true for others like me. Statistics are OK to back up a point, but an overabundance of them causes me to stop reading. Talk to an abundance of middle and lower people in a variety of regions to learn the financial troubles or issues they have. What works for someone in California my not even apply to people in other places like New York or Toronto. I think in the case of financial books, success equals success. If the information inside the book is successful, then the book will be.
I like forms and such when it pertains to my money, because I want to see how others set things up. For example, there is a program on television helping people get back on a financial track, and they use jars for money and a ledger to record spending. At Crown Financial, there are forms showing how to divide earnings into categories to help determine a limit for all things from rent and food to clothing, car and entertainment. They psychology of money for me is not important. It can be the root of all evil, the predator of major stress, anxiety and marriage breakdowns, and if we learn how to deal with it properly it can lead to a life of comfort, peace and stability. The big thing is to live within our means and not go into debt, but if you’re already are in dept and truly want to get out of it and get ahead, how do balance current life with the past (debt) without obliterating everything that isn’t an absolute necessity? How can the arrow be turned around?
I hope this has helped answer some of your questions, and I apologize if my comments about the title are offensive. I don’t intend to do that, because if you do publish a book, I hope to see it filled with a reader’s path to success so that the author sees success too.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
JD first I think you should really write the kind of book that makes sense to you. Put in it what you are comfortable with and what you’re best writing about. If you dislike checklists then leave em out. If you like anecdotes then include em. Everyone haws different tastes so you can’t please everyone and what suits your writing style best will probably make the best all around book.
But since you asked our opinions: Personally I don’t like checklists. I love references to real data and historical statistics. I like examples and anecdotes.
Jim
October 28th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
I like anything psychological that can help explain to me why I spent some money, and help me get in better control of that type of spending in the future.
If you’re going to have charts, try to make them universal (not specific theoretical examples). Try not to make them too redundant also.
I think anecdotes are good, but too many anecdotes can make the book seem less reliable. Use them as examples but not evidence.
I’d like to see lots of practical tips in the sidebars relating to what I’m reading about at the moment. (What I like is a more non-linear narrative that can let me decide whether I want to learn or implement.)
Lastly, I do not like forms, worksheets, end-of-chapter checklists, or quizzes. But like I said, I do like practical tips.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Hm, maybe I was seeing more references to anecdotes & testimonials than I thought…
I guess I see examples as useful, testimonials as filler and/or scam flags, and anecdotes as being either. As Zubin so aptly put it, “Use them as examples but not evidence.”
October 28th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
The most important thing to include are concrete implementable actions that the reader can take. For example, the Rich Dad Poor Dad series is a prime model of what NOT to do with a self-help book.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Here’s a second “I’ve never read a personal finance book” vote.
I’ve turned my finances around in the last 10 months or so, but it’s been by bits and pieces. While I wasn’t really in debt, I didn’t have any plan for my money. My only thought was ‘maybe I should spend less…’.
A book on PF would have been too much for me to absorb at once. I needed daily blog posts with one or two things that related to me per week.
Now that I’m somewhat stabilized I could read a PF book and pick out the last few things that I’m doing wrong and fix those, but most of the book wouldn’t apply any more.
…Maybe you should do one of those page-a-day calendars instead. Every day could have a “Do this next” note.
I’m at a similar point again now. I’m ready to start investing. I’ve got an IRA I’m putting money into and a stagnant 401K from a previous employer. Most of the investment sites I read assume that the reader has $10,000 socked away and is ready to play with their money. I need baby steps, things I can do one week at a time, while working towards that first $10,000 of retirement savings.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I enjoyed Total Money Makeover, but thought it was too heavy on examples. The problem is that so many of these principles are basic, that the books feel like more fluff than substance. Really, it comes down to make a plan, spend less than you earn, and set money aside for the future.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
* Do you like statistics and reference to scientific research? - to support useful ideas and concepts, sure. as a basis for the book, no. practicalicality is key
* Do you like forms and worksheets? certainly not
* Do you like end-of-chapter checklists? certainly not
* Do you like personal anecdotes and stories of real-life people? very much so
* Do you like information about the psychology of money? only as supporting info
I would probably attempt to address the various phases of life, as well as the various sections of life (fitness, eating, vacation, etc).
October 28th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
I like the books that focus on psychology of money (probably because my undergrad degree was in psychology) and I like charts and graphs that show the “what ifs”.
I’ve read quite a few personal finance books and I’m in the market for the Total Money Makover - part two. Even though I’m still working the DR baby steps, we are working on 3 (we’ve got 3 mos. in our emergency account but still putting money away), 4 (retirement) and 6 (pay off mortgage) at the same time and 5 doesn’t apply b/c we don’t have kids yet, I feel like I need a part two plan.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I think you should think carefully about how GRS differs from other personal finance books and blogs. A publisher will want to know this up front, and it will help guide you on what sort of book to write. Is it your particular voice? Your story of climbing out of debt? Your readers and the forums? I could see anecdotes and success stories from the forums, used with permission, as a powerful way to illustrate personal finance concepts in a book.
Ask yourself why you want to write a book, when there are so many out there. Is it to help people fix their finances? By motivating them with stories, or teaching them facts? To promote the blog? To cash in?
Personally, I think great books start with a message that you feel compelled to share with the world. Starting with “I want to write a book. What should it be about?” seems backwards. Lots of mediocre books have been written because someone made the decision to become an author first, and figured out the message second.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I like David Bach’s (Automatic Millionaire) style of writing - to the point, realistic, easy to absorb, positive, motivating, with some humor thrown in. Nothing to heavy.
I also like some personal success stories; just regular people who made their finances better and in turn made their lives better -like you!
My advice - keep it simple.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
I think a personal story would be most meaningful.
Question though for JD and the readers: do you think at all about liability, either from blogging, podcasts, etc?
October 28th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Personal stories, anecdotes, and if you can swing it, a sense of humor. Personal finance can be so dry, and it’d be great to crack a smile. Good luck, JD!
October 28th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
cv wrote: Personally, I think great books start with a message that you feel compelled to share with the world. Starting with “I want to write a book. What should it be about?” seems backwards.
Oh, trust me — I’ve thought long and hard about this.
If I were rushing to capitalize on the blog, I would have started the book process last winter when I was first approached. But I didn’t. I held off. I thought about it. I asked myself what my intentions were. And now I know: I want to help motivate as many people as possible to take control of their personal finances. I’m not in it for “fame”. I’m not in it for “fortune”. I’m in it because I feel like I have something to say, and I want to say it.
Still, I think it’s important to think about form at the outset. I know what the book will be about, but not how it will look. It makes sense to create a roadmap. There are a million ways to travel from Portland to New York, but each trip requires an itinerary. So too with a book.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
J.D., I like personal finance books with a lot of depth, i.e. writing that was carefully thought out and planned, where you could tell that it was. There are so many books where I literally can scan the paragraphs, skip pages, etc. because they just did not offer me anything substantial, or they were too “easy” and repetitive. I love pf books that make you put the book down and THINK. Each author has their own way of making that happen; I genuinely do believe that you have that skill as evident with your blog writings.
This is what you can perhaps do: pretend that you want to sum up what you’ve been saying in GRS in a book; what would you say? What do you think people need to hear? Forget abut format; i.e. lists, chapter summaries, stats, etc. for now. Just think about what you would want to say to people if you had the chance to. Then, when you have a bundle of material, you can start to find your focus, such as who exactly you’re writing this for, or how your book will help that person, and fine tune the format.
Focus more on your writing because that I think is your #1 skill here, and focus on what you want to say. Then I think you will have a book as popular as your blog.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
I like PF books that literally tell me what to do. The two books that really got my finances on track and that I still reference from time to time are “Automatic Millionaire” by David Bach and “Total Money Makeover” by David Ramsey. Any book by Suze Orman comes a distant third but I think she relys too much on stories and anecdotes.
I have “The Millionaire Next Door” on audio. It’s fascinating but a really dry read (even to listen to).
October 28th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
given how taboo it is to talk about money, i like stories that reveal “secrets”, i.e. real people’s budgets, and how they spend their money.
i finds personal stories compelling so long as they are authentic and distinctive, and not the lame “joe sixpack” generalizations that you so often see in PF books. excerpts in the subject’s own voice often make the stories more affecting and memorable for me.
my reason for liking personal stories is twofold: 1) i’m comforted to know that even if i’m doing terribly financially, i’m not alone, and 2) i want to be inspired to do better (and possibly learn a new approach for how to do so).
what many others have said is also true for me - i’m most interested in the exploration of money and psychology in terms of helping me to understand why i behave the way i do, and how i might change my behavior when it’s in my best interest to do so.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Short. I like reference to scientific research, both on economics and psychology, but not a lot of numbers. I especially don’t like absurd assumptions about stock-market performance like the one I see every day on the poster promoting the 401(k) program at work. Anecdotes are OK as illustrations, provided they are brief. As an individual reader with a particular set of characteristics, there will always be some you can relate to and some you just can’t. My favorite book of the genre is Andrew Tobias, The Only Investment Guide You’ll Ever Need. I also like Your Money or Your Life for inspiration, but I am never going to take the time to sit down and do all those exercises.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
I am currently researching my PF book; in fact, starting my blog was a way to ‘air’ some of my thoughts … I never expected to end up with 3 blogs and such a large and active readership!
My ‘angle’ is simply to write from the perspective of somebody who is already rich … rather than many of the other mainstream PF authors who seem to write TO get rich.
Those who say ‘there is no new PF book under the sun’ need to wait for your book … and mine
October 28th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I liked Your Money or Your Life up until the part where they told me to invest in Treasury something-or-other. See, I can’t even remember what they recommended, I was so switched off.
So, I guess something about finances that makes me think about money in a different way would capture my attention. Something I can connect with my life philosophy.
However, I’m not against something that would also tell me, in unscary terms, how to go about investing in different ways.
But, when your book comes out, I’m going to borrow it from the library. Maybe I’m not the one to ask about selling points …
October 28th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
I like your website and also The Tightwad Gazette
series because articles are broken up with a picture or a visual on nearly every post or page.
Using less cocoa or that footstool you made were both ideas that I value equally to your how to open a Roth article. Or that I’ll get a whole range of ideas in a week to think about. I get a sense of who you are. In your blog, I can readily imagine you, sitting in front of your computer or in your garden or sneaking out and eating at the taco stand.
Your credibility is in being the regular guy, not the most frugal or the leading financial expert, but a guy who can sift through lots of websites (list your favorites definitely in the book) and glean the good bits. The websites you mention frequently opened up a whole new resource for me. i just don’t have the patience to roam around reading lots of different web sites. Best of the web are some of my favorite weekly features.
You also get across the whole emotional connection with money and debt without seeming goofy.
Details about your success stories and those of your readers are a must. Plus the questions people ask.
Clearly I’m a fan and done right, this will be a great book.
October 28th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
J.D.,
I’ve been thinking more about it and one of the GREAT and UNIQUE things about your blog is that you don’t believe in ONE CORRECT WAY to do things. You are open to many ideas and finding what works for the individual. Most PF books (even the good ones) are very focused on their way or the highway (even suggesting that not following their way dooms you to failure).
You could select different subjects (paying off debt, budgeting, saving) and then showing various (and contridictory) ways to achieve success. This would be both in keeping with you blog and different from most books out there.
Also I would recommed to keep YOU in the book. Your personal story and struggle with finances keeps it on a personal level rather than a GURU type who has everything figured out.
Just some thoughts….
October 28th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Forget about worksheets, formulas, etc. They become obsolete so quickly and they are so readily available on the web.
I’d love to see each chapter focus on one financial decision or hurdle, then tell the stories of people who took completely different paths in regard to that decision — what worked? What would each of them do differently? What can the average person learn?
For example, in a chapter on housing, you could start with a general education on buying a house, rent versus own, mortgages, etc. But then tell the story of someone who decided to buy, and someone who decided to rent, and get their views on the process. You could also include anecdotes from people who bought young and ended up with multiple rental properties; people who defaulted on their mortgages; people who rented instead, and invested their money to great gains; people who rented, didn’t save or invest the extra, and still regret it. All of these stories would be educational, and readers could probably identify with more than one story or path.
I just find it really helpful to hear people talk about what they did and why, and what they learned from the experience.
October 28th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Hi. You seem to searching for ideas from your readers. I believe that is where the answers lie. Your credibility as an author will come from your journey with GRS and its loyal following. I would breakdown your book into your personal finance principles and highlight each section with a story from one or more of your readers that explains how by following your principle it impacted their life for the better. Just food for thought. I wish you the best of luck with your book. It will no doubt be a huge success.
October 28th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
JD: @41 you say “I’m in it because I feel like I have something to say, and I want to say it.” — I think that will go a _long_ ways.
Yes, there are many ways from Seattle to NY. But I think if you start practicing/drafting a handful of those ways, then it some routes will fall out and some will stick. I suspect that your message (whatever it is) has only a small number of ways that it naturally expresses itself. In your head in the shower, or on paper one Saturday afternoon, try your hand at a handful of ways of conveying a particular part — I’ll bet one will clearly be the best way to convey that part.
Combine that with your voice and your slant, and I think it will be fairly clear. You don’t have to present each sub-component the same way, and variety may have some good merits (e.g. if the way you would explain part B to someone is to draw a diagram, then a diagram is a good plan, while the best way that you would explain part D involves simply telling a story, so that’s what you should do. And the chart in chapter 2 while the story in chapter 4 will go a long ways for your readers, in addition to each part being expressed in the way that is right for that part).
Not knowing what your message is, I personally think that one of the most valuable parts of GRS is that it well factors in the fact that we are people. If we all always behaved optimally, then all the other finance books would be redundant and great, but the reality is that we are people and sometimes we do things that aren’t well explained by the numbers. And in fact, sometimes those odd things we do are the best things, just not according to the financial metrics. That’s one piece you know and understand well and is real value here. I’d like to see that message well put and widely distributed. And I’d love to continue learning more about it.
October 28th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
I think one issue is how do you appeal to a wide range of people who want/need PF info? You don’t want to intimidate the novice, nor gear it to just the underinformed. Maybe some sort of pyramidal organization, where each chapter builds on the previous (for people who start at the beginning) but makes it easy to skip ahead to your skill level.
I’ve only read one or two PF books, but I plan to read several soon, so I can help a friend learn some much needed money skills.
October 28th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
One word .. SHORT!!
JD, you are one of the best PF writers out there, and you also have a unique, and well-developed, core philosophy (as captured on your ‘about’ page). Make a good concise 100 page book about this (w/o focusing on specific numbers or policies which would tie it to a specific time or location) and it has the potential to be a timeless and international classic.
October 28th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
I’ll be interested to read your book when it comes out. I hope you’ll address readers of all ages, not just 20 to 30 year olds who have the best chance to follow all the good advice. I know you target all ages in your blog, and I appreciate that as a 45 year old who just this year woke up about retirement. Actually, I *should* be okay because I have a defined benefit pension from my federal job, as well as a small 401k and Social Security (yes, I don’t doubt it will be there, albeit reduced. We were never meant to live off it all by itself.) Still, it was an enormous shock to realize that I hadn’t planned properly (or much at all). I’m from the end of the generation before 401k’s, when we still expected defined benefit plans. That was before they were called that to differentiate them from defined contribution plans (401k, etc.). When the 401k was introduced to my old company when I was 26 in 1989 (?) none of us knew where to put our money, so it mostly went into the safe fund. Mine was there until a few weeks ago. So, I didn’t lose much but I only had $52,000. Add that to the fact that in 2005 I refinanced to a lower rate mortgage (5 7/8) with a shorter term, but a higher amount to pay off credit cards and buy a new car. I thought this was a good deal at the time because the term was shorter and the payment only $100 more than I had been paying on all debt, including mortgage and credit cards. Now I see that wasn’t the wisest thing I’ve ever done. Still, the reader comments and stories in your blog show me I’m not alone and my goal of paying off my mortgage sooner is reachable. That’s what I’d want to see in a book: hope.
October 28th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Sorry J.D. I didn’t actually mean that I thought you were only writing a book for the money. I only meant that asking the readers what they like best in a book doesn’t mean as much if it’s not tied to the message. If your message is a detailed plan for how to get out of debt, like Dave Ramsey, then worksheets might be totally appropriate. If the message is motivational, then worksheets might be completely out of place. I think the form will be determined by the overall message more than by what readers say they like.
October 28th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
I preferred Financial Peace Revisited over Total Money Makeover. TMM seemed fluffy while FPR seemed more focused on getting down to business eliminating debt. Maybe reading FPR first influenced me, but I got a lot more out of that one and didn’t need to hear so many stories of people who’d been there.
Somehow convincing readers that it is critical to change their spend now, think later lifestyle is needed.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
I like short ideas covered in a couple paragraphs. 2 of my favorite books are “Living Fiscally Fit” and “How to pinch a penny until it screams”. They are loaded with basic information and keeps me thinking on staying organized with the finances and being careful with my money. The style is probably for a novice in money management.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
I have only one book that I think so highly of, that I loan it out to people. Many of your fans are probably knowledgible of financial matters more so than many other people. More power to them. Though i read through the many comments this article of yours engendered. But, I start with my friends at square one. Which is why I recommend sincerely to you “The Wealthy Barber”, by David Chilton. It gives in everyday english, practical steps for financial well being. The author assumes he is talking to grownups unfamiliar with technical terms. And I spent more than two decades on a trading floor. And it is a cheap buy on Amazon. More than one person has thanked me for the loan.
Thank You,
Don Barry
October 28th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
I’d like to see a personal finance book that describes how someone should handle their money (or lack thereof) during different stages in their life (e.g., college, first job, marriage, house, kids, grown kids, retirement). It’s be great if the book also had some type of goal structure describing where I should ideally be at financially at the difference stages.
I’m not too into testimonials, but I love case studies with analysis and background statistics. Like, where did the people in the case study go wrong, what did they do right, how typical are they compared to the rest of society, etc.
A glossary of financial terms at the end of the book is a must.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
So many great financial books out there, but for me showing the very beginnings of how great minds used their knowledge to gain wealth. Nothing pushes me harder than to hear about individuals who knew they could be successful, but just had to work extremely hard.
Jesse W.
http://www.subprimeblogger.com
October 28th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
You’ve already written my ideal GRS personal finance book, J.D. It began at foldedspace - at least, that’s where it began for me, at the end of a web search for PF book reviews. It continues here. I think of GRS as “The Wealthy Barber” with all the made up stories swapped out in favor of your own.
From where I sit it looks like you’ve found a level of personal detail you’re comfortable disclosing, and your combination of forthrightness and comfort is what I come back for. It gives your book reviews and comment responses weight. It provided context for your changing view of credit cards. It makes sense of the light GRS coverage of the housing mess, compared with bloggers in LA or Florida. It inspires this apartment dweller to read your posts on gardening and canning with full attention.
So I hope that work on a GRS book amounts to editing (no small task given all the material you have to choose from!) and finding chapter breaks.
If you end up needing to write an explicit recipe book, I hope your story stays front and center. Strong authorial voices of experience inspired me to put TMMO and YMOYL into practice, to calculate my real hourly wage, to pay off my debt, to build an emergency fund.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
I loved the Tightwad Gazette book. Its approach was practical, humorous and most of all showed what could be achieved in simple, broken-down steps, mainly via stories and anecdotes about people’s behaviours with a good chucnk of analysis thrown in that did not overwhelm, though sometimes had to be read several times to be fully understood.
Pictures were valuable - illustrations showing what a frugal frig looked like, what bits of furniture had been renovated and how. Since the writer was a graphic designer it was no doubt all in a day’s work to her ;).
It’s not the information in charts and work sheets that is dull - it is often the presentation that can be off-putting, especially to those used to more colourful or lively formats.
There is something simple yet deadening about all those black and white lines. It’s unfortunate, but to a creative type it looks like a lot of unpleasant insects. (When you realise, of course that these insects can apprecialy increase your income or life’s possibilities, of course, then suddenly they become a lot friendlier!).
Put the same information in a coloured pie-chart (cherry and cream, please!) or in the mouths of a couple of comic-book characters, or in short anecdotal form with a simple brief description, well that’s very different!
You don’t have to go over the top either. I love reading people’s little stories about what they did and how they did it, but I find I turn off if I need to do a systemic analysis - that is more in-depth, concentrated activity that needs a large chunk of time set aside to deal with it properly.
I find that the skills I need are not so much managing my money - but retaining a sense of purpose for what i need to do. I am quite capable of using cardboard boxes for years and then buying a spiffy chest of drawers or what have you, and being happy with both.
As far as goal-setting goes, it’s different to prescribe where-you-should-be to a person whose life has been turned upside down - financially or otherwise - and has to start again.
Best to point out how to start saving fast or getting the requisite skills to manage yourself, your finances and those you need to relate to in the work and money world at whatever age.
Cheers.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
I agree with Cara - different choices at different stages can lead to astonishingly different results for your readers. That would be education wihtout being condescending…
I also agree that a “Tip per Day” DO THIS could be very motivational.
I guess my organization would be like building a house: here’s the foundation - invest in yourself and have a strong work ethic; get medical insurance; pay off debt; start saving for retirement and other goals young.
The walls and roof: marry the right person; get other insurance coverage to protect yourself; start savings for your kids’ college; don’t inflate your lifestyle.
The cabana and addition: save a lot more than you make, get long-term insurance; when to have fun prudently.
How to make decisions as a couple? How to set your own boundaries? How is saying “no” one of the most powerful financial decisions you can make?
I do like some forms and checklists, for exactly the reason that others may mention - it’s a good way to take a temperature check. One way to personalize the book (rather than in the text, which could get turgid) would be to have different lists and forms for different cycles/pay grades/with kids/without kids.
I *love* things like Money mag’s How Do You Measure Up? articles, which show how much a family of 2/4/6 make, what they spend it on (or don’t), and how much they have saved or set aside.
I think there’s something quite useful about planning retirement savings with real numbers. When I finally did so, after years of savings, I was motivated to bump the savings by another $3K per year now, because even an early start wasn’t the perfect plan.
But DON’T clutter up the chapters with end-of-chapter checklists, or sidebars that are too distracting. Footnotes that say “Turn to page 252 for planning forms” would be fine; huge sidebars with personal anecdotes are distracting and interrupt the flow.
Can’t wait to read it!
Sandi
October 29th, 2008 at 2:44 am
Forms and worksheets are okay if they are in a separate practical section of the book. I dislike them at the end of each chapter as it disrupts the flow of reading. I end up not doing them and then I feel guilty about it - worst of both worlds. Whereas if they were in part 2, then it’s all in one spot if I decide I want to do them, without having to read the book again.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:12 am
I’m a writer who has spent the last year reading a lot about personal finance. What I like best are personal stories and writers who take the time to explain difficult financial concepts in a simple, easy to understand format.
I also like financial books with shorter chapters. That makes it really easy to pick the book back up later and flip to a chapter if you need a refresher.
Write the book!
Deborah Johnson
A Writer’s Voice: http://litchick73.blogspot.com/
October 29th, 2008 at 6:00 am
I liked a workbook Suze Orman did, and it had a lot of worksheets—HOWEVER, they were used to track bills and expenses on a monthly basis for the year, and it sure was helpful (and interesting) to see all those figures that were specifically MINE laid out like that. Makes for easy planning and budgeting even though it takes a little work.
It seems like that would be the issue- are you writing for someone willing to put in some time, effort, and sweat equity to get rich slowly or are you writing an easy read for someone you hope the info just sticks in their mind and they eventually act on?
October 29th, 2008 at 6:13 am
Who is William T Spitz??
October 29th, 2008 at 6:45 am
I loved what another commenter said about a book revolving around behavior.
Might not a 2-book set be appropriate? One about behavior, with a second smaller book with specific strategies - more practical stuff?
OTOH, the best money-behavior connection book IMHO is Your Money or Your Life. What can you do to top that, or put a new spin on it?
October 29th, 2008 at 6:51 am
I think one thing that is sorely missing in the genre is a finance book that discusses investing for people who have never done it. I would love to read more about how people started and your personal story would be great. Most personal investment books are either about retirement, require a LOT of money, or are simply completely over my head.
I agree the psychology is interesting and personal stories are helpful. Worksheets are awful, but a variety of suggestions on how to reasonably manage money is helpful. I like to hear how average people (by that I mean not wealthy but not living paycheck to paycheck) manage their money.
You have suggested some very good books as models. You might also take a look at Stephen King’s “On Writing.” As a writer you can appreciate this book, if you haven’t read it already. I have re-read it several times. His approach to explaining his personal path and his craft is phenomenal.
On a side note, I think you have picked a great time to consider a book titled “Get Rich Slowly.” I think people are open to this concept like never before. Maybe play this up. ~ Kay
October 29th, 2008 at 7:06 am
I like personal anecdotes in self-help books, but they have to seem like they’re not made up by the author. Including last names helps that feel - even if there’s a footnote somewhere explaining that names have been altered to protect privacy. There’s just something about a story explaining how Ted paid off his credit card that doesn’t feel as authentic as a story that explains how Ted Johnson paid off his credit card.
October 29th, 2008 at 7:07 am
I see some people have brought up the question of what else could be said in a book that you haven’t said on your blog.
As somebody who has written using both mediums, my advice is this: Please do not let this concern stop you from writing a book. Even if there is *no* new content in it, you’ll still be creating something of value.
The reason? There are countless people out there who read books but who do not read blogs. (Many still don’t even know what they are). Assuming that you feel that your message provides value to the people with whom you share it (and it’s obvious that you feel that way), you should write a book.
Share the GRS message with as many people as you can.
October 29th, 2008 at 7:38 am
The thing that keeps me reading your blog is that you make personal finance accessible, you don’t put yourself above the audience. Reading about how even the people I look to for personal finance advice face challenges helps keep me motivated to curb my spending and take the time to save money.
I think the personal touch, relating things back to your own life, is the strength of GRS, and it’s what’s missing from a lot of personal finance books. The other real strength of GRS is that it ties managing money into other aspects of living a healthy lifestyle, like eating well, managing stress and being honest in your relationships. It gets across that managing your money isn’t some kind of really specialized activity, it’s just part of life.
October 29th, 2008 at 7:48 am
First and foremost, for people who haven’t followed your story on GRS, you have to make them know that you wrote the book because you have walked in their debt-filled cement shoes and found a way to survive - that you’re not just writing a book for the money, but because you’ve been there!
Give lots of practical advice. Where I can put down the book and go make a change right away. That will lead to not only returning to the book again & again, but also to telling everyone else about this great thing I found in this great book.
Good luck! If I’m still in debt when it comes out, I will be excited to check it out from my local library!
October 29th, 2008 at 8:10 am
My favorite book is The Wealthy Barber. Granted - I’m biased in that I lived most of my live in southeast Michigan where the book takes place. Location aside - it was a book that spoke to the common man - Joe the Plumber so to speak. I’m not as big of a fan of statistics. Partly because I find them boring. Stats are good on the web where they can be easily updated. Once you put them in a book it doesn’t take long for them to become dated. Honestly, you definately need to do it. Sure there are hundreds of personal finance books, but there are an equal number of diet books, raising baby books, cook books and even trashy romance novels, but that doesn’t stop people from continuing to write them. Sometimes you can say the same thing in a different way and it will click.
October 29th, 2008 at 8:16 am
I kind of put business books and personal finance books in the same writing category in my head, but I looked over at my bookshelf and realized I like the business books better: Good to Great, Freakonomics, and The Long Tail. To me, they all have a Big Idea they convey with grace, short chapters, clear organization, real statistics and research, and anecdotal and sometimes goofy stories to make me emotionally connect with the message too.
As Adrienne pointed out earlier, the medium is part of what attracts us. How do you embody that interaction along with your humility, and ‘do what works for you’ mantra? I mean, how do you engage someone long enough in a book to help them figure out what their system is and make them feel like that was your gift to them? Sounds hard.
October 29th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Since you liked Dale Carnegie’s _How to Win Friends and Influence People_ copy his technique of outlining what is in the chapters, headings for subtopics and a summary of what was presented. According to _Your Memory : How It Works and How to Improve It_ by Kenneth L. Higbee headings are a powerful technique for making your book easier to remember. You can also use some of Dale’s tips on how to be a leader to improve how you present your material:
Begin with praise and honest appreciation – For example congratulations for choosing to take control of your finances.
Talk about your mistakes before criticizing (or giving your advise?)
Ask questions instead of giving direct orders
Use encouragement, claim the fault is easy to correct
Make the other person happy about doing your suggestion.
As for content, I would suggest laying out the basics in the first chapter. Then use the rest of the book to inspire your readers with personal stories that show: It’s possible, and worthwhile to follow your advice. I think most people are really in need of hope that they really can get out of debt, control their finances, and get rich slowly.
I really enjoyed the _Millionaire Next Door_ and the _Wealthy Barber_ for their motivational aspects, both highlight that anyone can achieve financial success with time. The Boggleheads guide to investing is my favorite when it comes to actual investment advice- it’s packed with information, but I think someone has to be in the right state of mind before they could really make use of this book.
-Rick Francis
October 29th, 2008 at 9:06 am
One thing that I look for in a personal finance book is a cover that doesn’t look like it’s from the early 90’s. Design Sells. Hire someone to design your book that knows what he or she is doing.
October 29th, 2008 at 9:08 am
I really like to read personal stories. They give me a way to compare my situation to other real life scenarios and also provide some inspiration.
I don’t do complex worksheets. I like simple formulas to gauge how I’m doing. A book with a complex system is not going to help someone who is already overwhelmed by their finances.
October 29th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Hi JD,
I think great stories and the psychology behind finance are great ways to go. I think you need to think about whether you want to do a perspective changing book or a tips & how-to book. Heck, write them both. But I think they almost need some separation. Or write 300 pages of stuff in one book.
Cheers,
Jeremy
October 29th, 2008 at 10:16 am
See a GRS book should be telling us the main philosophies about money that you have. A chapter for each of your mantras or key points eg *do what works for you* would be awesome, with stories, statistics, and psychology stuff to back it up.
October 29th, 2008 at 10:47 am
I enjoy the practical/real-life stories (and those are the kinds of things that publishers like to use to promote books) but as one person commented, they really do need to feel real. Your story should be part of it, but reinforce your own experiences with the experiences of other folks (otherwise its too easy for a reader to think “yeah, whatever, his experience doesn’t relate in any way to mine–or anyone else’s.”)
The sections of the blog where you offer up a question/quandary from a reader, and ask the readers to respond, is great; this really reinforces that there are patterns in the problems we have, that there are patterns in how to resolve those problems, but there are still various ways to approach resolving the problem. If there’s a way to translate that into a book project, I think that would be very appealing.
To echo Adrienne’s suggestion, I think a real strength to what you’ve done here is to demonstrate that there are many different ways to skin a cat/save a buck and finding that in at PF book would, I agree, be refreshing.
Simple formulas are interesting and helpful (I’m thinking the recent discussion of real wage) and could/should be profitably incorporated into the book. More detailed worksheets could be turned into pdfs and both included as an appendix to the book (for the person who wants to be solely paper-based) and posted somehow in connection with the blog (so if I want to print out 25 copies of the worksheet for setting up spending plans or whatever, I can, and you can update if/as necessary, which will probably be more often than your book would go into subsequent editions.)
I like to see basic stats and credible research to back up the personal stories/anecdotes, but prefer not to get bogged down in detailed discussion of whatever financial expert had to say about X because quite frankly, I don’t imagine the financial expert is experiencing the sames kinds of things in the same ways that I am. (But if you can get a certified financial expert to share on-the-record his or her story about struggling with credit card debt or something similar, that would be interesting reading!)
Finally, I beg you: please DON’T simply make your book a reproduction of the blog. “Books” that have taken this form (and I’ve read several in a different genre) are pretty annoying to read, even if you’re completely unfamiliar with the blog that launched the book. In any case, why would someone pay for content they can get online free–especially personal finance content? What you want is something that is mutually complimentary–so readers here will still want to pick up your book because it has something new, and readers of the book will still want to search out and subscribe to the blog because of different content/different presentation.
But… I’d expect any editor you’re thinking of working with on this will be telling you similar sorts of things. And I may be biased as a person in the book business, but please please please work with a reputable publisher and editor. There’s a lot to be said about self-publishing, and it’s not all bad, but publishers really do add value and if you get to work with one that is a good fit for your project, you’ll be glad you did.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Personally, I like stories about people with financial issues (big and small) who found creative but practical ways to solve them. What’s attractive about your blog is that it’s easy to read and provides new information regularly. I think a page-a-day type concept would be good, but you could organize it such that people could do a whole section one day a month or week, skip ahead or go slower if needed or skip parts they understand (like credit cards if you don’t use them) altogether.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:49 am
I like chapters on a subject to start out as if I had never, ever heard of the subject before. One or two sentences summing up the most basic “DUH” aspect of the concept. If I have heard of the subject before, I’ll skim to the details. If I haven’t, I don’t spend the entire chapter angry at you because I feel lost.
An example (and why I love your blog so much). I’d read my Suze Orman and actually went back and re-read parts of Young Fabulous and Broke. And I had no idea what an IRA actually was. I got the tax business, I got the find a broker with low fees business, I got the fact that I really needed one. But it took your examples on GRS for the lighbulb to finally go on that it’s essentially a bucket and I can fill it with lots of things (not just a single stock or mutual fund or bond category). Really simple, right? Amazingly, no. I have that series of entries bookmarked to review. And for that you have earned years of warm fuzzy feelings from me
October 29th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
J.D., I think a GRS book is a terrific idea — as long as it doesn’t disrupt the blog.
A few thoughts:
• Absolutely agree that your personal story is the hook that draws people into the blog, and it will do the same for a book. You have bootstrapped yourself into a remarkable example, and it’s especially encouraging to read about average, normal people who have radically bettered themselves with no more resources than those available to the rest of us.
• In terms of organization, your blog has taken shape in (what I think are) some fairly distinct sections, with many “chapters” in each. You started in debt. You broke even. Now you’re in a position to make some serious choices. That’s three main sections, as I count ‘em.
The philosophy has been consistent throughout (which is what you need in a book), but the questions you have confronted and the strategies you have needed (debt snowball, for example) have evolved. And there are your chapters.
• I also think your serious strength is your ability to translate ideas into a clear concept. A Roth IRA is a bucket that I can use to carry many different kinds of investments? I can’t tell you how many times I have encouraged friends to start investment savings and used that exact metaphor.
• I frequently use your blog posts as a discussion starter with my husband, my sister, my friends. I can see a GRS book as a terrific book club selection. That said, I think it might be cool to have some thought-provoking questions at the end of each chapter (or in a reader’s guide in the back), that loosely follow the questions that you and Kris asked yourselves as you started along this path.
(edited to add) My husband and I actually have a two-person book club for finance books (and marriage books), and our favorites are ALWAYS books with questions at the end of each chapter or section, because it lets us compare answers.
Good luck. You’re doing terrific work here.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I know that (like any other self-involved person, and let’s face it we all are), I look for myself in the book. Lots of anecdotes help because I can find someone like me. “This person’s just like me, and they did this…” We all know we need to budget, but where can we cut corners and where should we not. Am I doing the right thing deferring my med school loans and paying off my credit cards? That sort of thing
October 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Personally I like financial mentality inside secrets, case studies and personal stories. I only want to do what other people are doing if they have a system that is beneficial. Diagrams and charts don’t do it for me. I’m a smart person but the quadrant diagram in Rich Dad, Poor Dad is about as much as I would want to think about. Keeping things simple is good. Suze Orman bless her heart. That whole box of paperwork she put together would make my head spin!
Although there are a lot of finance books floating around you should produce one regardless. If you can put just one tiny spin on it (besides GRS blog related) and introduce a concept that no one is talking about that is what will make it stand out.
October 30th, 2008 at 10:11 am
I’d say definately stick to the psychological and behavioural side of things. It’s one thing to write down a sheet with numbers and another to apply your behaviour in accordance. If i remember correctly, the reason why i kept coming back to the blog is that you bridged that gap quite effectively. More often than not through your personal anectodes.
The basics are simple, they work and run between the lines of every other financial book. Applying them may be your niche.
Just my 2 cents.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I love how motivational those Smart Women/Couples/Start Late/Finish Rich books are. Every time I read one, I feel really pumped up and optimistic.
I love Eric Tyson’s books (he did Personal Finance for Dummies and Mutual Funds for Dummies and more). I like how explains why something is a good idea, or why something else is a bad idea. He also is very honest in addressing pitfalls, bad sales practices, bad deals and other obstacles we all want to avoid.
Love the Millionaire Next Door books for the information they give about how real people really make it happen.
I think a Get Rich Slowly book is a great idea, a winner, with lots of wide appeal. A person can start from anywhere in life with anything or nothing and put the behaviors in place that are really transformative. It’s the journey. Learning to live below your means and work toward goals changes how you value things, time, family, work. Well you know JD, I’m preaching to the choirmaster - you blog about it all the time! Best of luck in writing your first book… (could be a series)….
October 30th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Hi JD,
I agree with Filip. Application is key and is often what is missing in PF books. Granted, application is all in people actually taking the ideas from a book and applying them, but maybe you can write a motivational book with good simple easy to apply tips that people can use.
Cheers,
Jeremy
October 31st, 2008 at 9:19 am
I absolutely loved Smart Women Finish Rich. It got me started on my retirement planning and other financial planning at age 22. Great advice on all sorts of things like insurance, types of savings, returns, risk, etc. A fantastic motivator because of its “values” approach (what is important about money to you?) BTW, any man could get the advice he’d need from this - it’s just tailored to women because we spend less time in the workforce, make less money than men, die later, and tend to leave financial stuff to our husbands (yay us!)
October 31st, 2008 at 12:20 pm
I hate worksheets, but LOVE personal stories - but they should be used to illustrate things, not as learning tools in themselves. I like bullet points and lists to sum things up, and like the psychological bits too.
November 1st, 2008 at 6:50 pm
I think you should pretty much write the book in a way that is natural to you. Authenticity is hard to beat. At least that is the way I see it. Regardless, you already have a style that has a huge target group, so continuing along that path is perhaps not a bad idea.
My target group is different and I don’t think it will ever be as large as yours.
Personally, I almost despise made up examples about “‘Bob’ that works as a …” to the point of putting the book back. I rarely find anecdotes useful, especially if they involve events that can no longer be replicated (such as flipping real estate at opportune times). I definitely do not do quizzes or worksheets. What I generally look for in a book are ideas that I have never seen before or new or more clear ways of expressing ideas that I have seen. Otherwise I’m wasting my time
November 2nd, 2008 at 8:35 am
I agree about behavior, mainly. Once you get past the basic nuts and bolts of spending plans, shopping with a list, paring away unnecessary crap. etc, it all comes down to behavior. For me, it’s dealing with something you touched on on one of your posts: The Idea of Having. For the past three months, I’ve been wanting a Beretta Neos. (a cool little .22 pistol) I certainly don’t NEED it, I already have a shotgun for home defense, and I know I probably wouldn’t go shooting with it once I got it. Still, it’s a struggle at times to deal with the idea of just HAVING it. So, I believe strategies for dealing with this and other forms of compulsive and impulsive spending would be very helpful. Also, how to get your spouse “on board” would be REALLY helpful. I wish I could do that!
P.S. I usually skip over the anecdotes to get to the techniques…
November 4th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
If you want the book to be consistently interesting to both your readers and you, try as much as you can to write about what interests you. It’s what motivates you, and it’s why you have a large audience for your blog.
December 1st, 2008 at 7:52 am
I like checklists and bullets, particularly to summarize chapters. I am loving reading _The Credit Diet_ right now, but wish there was a summary at the end of each chapter, and/or some worksheets I could copy.
Simplicity is KEY.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Well, it looks like you’ve got quite a few comments on this books, but I’ll add my 2¢ anyway.
First, To answer your questions: Yes.
I think it depends on the book. Some books are meant to be motivational and what’s motivational to some people is not necessarily motivational to others. Other books are meant to give you actionable steps. Still other books try to use stories to make it real and get the reader to assimilate the store in order to bring the personal change necessary. Some books are meant for entertainment, some books are meant for learning. What’s your goal? Infotainment? Entertainment? Teaching and Learning?
–I guess one of your goals would be to sell as many books as you can to help the world as much as you can while helping yourself. In that case, look at some of the successful books and follow their patterns. Another idea, is to take another genre, and apply it to yours. For instance, Home Improvement books provide some design inspiration and recipes for following up on that.
Now onto what I would want to see: I want to see actionable steps. I like how in Scott Berkun’s Making Things Happen book, he’s got actionable exercises I can do at the end of each chapter. I like in the Power of Focus book, that each chapter gives me homework to do to achieve that level. Too many personal self-help books don’t make it concrete how we can put the new thing we just learned into action. Although I don’t want to see blah checklists and forms, I do think there is a benefit to having some way to provide the user concrete actionable steps to putting into practice the good financial habits. Make it easy for me to assimilate the new habits. I think Leo does that pretty good in his book the Power of Less.
I hate picking up a diet, exercise motivational book, and over 75% of the book is recipes. If I wanted to buy a recipe book, I’d buy a recipe book. If I want to buy a motivational book, I’ll buy that. I don’t mind some recipes, but often times the recipes are too esoteric. So, be clear from the beginning what kind of book you want to be.
I like reading about stories. The Motley Fool books (Read You have More than you think), and the Debt Proof Living have good inspirational stories. Millionaire Next Door too. Even Rich Dad, Poor Dad was powerful due to the stories. We can also say Who moved my cheese, and The Go Fish book, or Patrick Leoni’s books. The stories help make learning about a bland topic less arduous. Although, sometimes its too hard to make the leap from the story (moving cheese) to the real world (dealing with real change).
I’m also a fan of the Harry Beckwith books. He’s got very short chapters mixed into multiple parts or sections in the book with definite actions one can take. — The Cohesive is nice which I think is hard to do. Yet, It works for him. It’s a great bedtime book, One can read the short chapter, leave it go, and come back the following night or the following week even, and learn a new lesson.
I hope that helps, and Good Luck. I have been debating on writing a book for a while too. The key, I think, is the dedication required to write the thing in the first place while keeping your audience’s best interest in mind.