Joleen wrote this week with a unique situation. She’s a Canadian who has been working overseas in China for the past six years. She has accumulated substantial savings in the local currency, but has no idea what to do with her money. She writes:
I was recently approached by a financial advisor who works for a large international brokerage. He wanted me to think about investing in an offshore account and/or the stock market. I’ve had one meeting with him and I’m still not very clear on what the deal is.
I think there’s a lot I don’t know or understand about the crazy world of finance, but I do know that I should really do something with my money and start saving for my retirement. I have no debt yet, but no real investments of any kind — just my savings account.
Is it crazy to invest in the stock market now? I don’t really know much about it. How can I find a financial advisor I can trust? Should I change my money into a different currency? If so, which one? I’m confused and feeling a bit desperate, and this financial planner who contacted me is expecting me to make a decision in a week. Help me manage my money! Or at least give me some places to go to for sound advice.
Joleen should be congratulated for the smart choices she’s made so far. She may not have begun to save for retirement, but she has avoided debt, and she’s developed the saving habit. Also, she’s proceeding cautiously.
I can’t address the specifics of her situation — I have no idea what sorts of issues a Canadian living in China might face — but I do think there are some general principles that apply to all situations like this, no matter what the details are:
- Deal with advisors on your own terms. Call me crazy, but I don’t trust people who approach me out of the blue with an offer to help. I prefer to deal with somebody that I’ve approached myself, either via the recommendation of a friend or through my own research. In any case, when you do find somebody you might want to work with, check their background. See what other people say about them. Update: Several commenters argue that it’s common practice and perfectly acceptable for advisors to approach potential clients via cold call. They have valid points. Though I don’t like it myself, it’s not inherently wrong.
- Before you begin investing, set personal and financial goals. I believe that the road to wealth is paved with goals; if you don’t know where you want to go, you cannot know which road to take or which car to drive.
- If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Risk and reward are inextricably linked. You cannot obtain high return without high risk. Be wary of hucksters promising buckets of gold.
- Never let anyone rush you to make a decision with your money. NEVER. Take the time you need to find answers that satisfy you. Salesman of all sorts — even those selling financial products — pressure potential clients to decide now. They often create a sense of artificial scarcity: “If you don’t do this now, the chance may pass you by. You need to act quickly!” This is a ploy. It’s an attempt to rush you into a decision. All they want to do is close the sale.
- Take time to research the investments you make. It’s better to sit still and do nothing than it is to rush headlong into something you don’t understand. That’s not an excuse to procrastinate — it’s an admonition to be cautious and smart. If you don’t know how mutual funds work, take time to learn about them before you buy into one. If you don’t understand real estate investments, don’t buy property. Only make investments you understand.
I think Joleen might profit from reviewing some of my favorite financial literacy resources. (CNN’s Money 101 is an excellent place to start.) Although it’s geared toward U.S. residents, she might also find some good information in Dylan’s guest post about when and how to hire a financial planner.
Ultimately, when you begin investing, you must learn to trust yourself. You must develop the knowledge and skills necessary to feel confident in your decisions. I’m not saying that you need to become an expert on investing — but take the time to learn the basics so that you’re able to proceed from a position of knowledge and power. Remember: Nobody cares more for your money than you do.
Can you offer Joleen any advice, either about her specific situation or her general circumstances? If you were in her place, how would you decide whom to trust? Where would you go to seek information? How should she get started?
This article is about Ask the Readers, Basics, Choices, Planning, Relationships Friday, 7th November 2008 (by J.D. Roth)


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November 7th, 2008 at 5:17 am
I’m with you on avoiding people that approach you, especially if she’s met them twice and still doesn’t understand what’s going on. If you don’t understand it, don’t invest in it (but learn).
I think a lot will depend on what Joleen intends to do in the near future.
I’m guessing that she’ll want to move back to Canada and so it might make sense to have her savings mostly in Canadian $ or failing that US$.
A Canadian or Chinese financial planner / tax person who is used to dealing with expat finances would probably be helpful - there are bound to be investment and tax rules and so on.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:34 am
I think Dave Ramsey’s advice still fits in this instance… Find an advisor who is a teacher at heart and is willing to teach you what is going on with the investments they are recommending. AND… Don’t buy something until you understand it.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:35 am
No financial planner who approaches you is ever going to have your best interest at heart. If they are good at what they do, people find them, not the other way around. I really liked Andrew Tobias’ investment guide.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:40 am
There is nothing to be said of a professional whom initiates the contact. In fact, that is generally how most service professionals gain a good portion of their clientelle. There are a good many people who do not even think about such things until the idea is presented to them which forces them to take a look at their own situation.
In my opinion, it is the things you cannot see right off the bat that are the most important. Read my ideas from a recent blog post which delves deeper than simply credentials and sheets of pper hanging on a wall.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:45 am
Good advice JD.
Yes, one should think about diversifying their savings into the stock market.
Yes… if we must talk about the stock market in terms of “timing”, this isn’t a bad time to buy in, especially for passive, mid to long term investing.
NO, get rid of this supposed financial advisor. EXPECTING you to make a decision in a week? Who does he think he is? Joleen, this is your money, your life. YOU are in control. YOU call the shots. Do not let some stranger who apparently has no interest in your welfare push you and your money around.
I say take your time and learn more about investing in general. No need for any hasty decisions, but as you learn more, I think you’ll become more comfortable with the idea of the stock market. In particular, I recommend looking into more about passive and diversified mutual funds, perhaps even index funds.
That’s what I would recommend looking towards, but again, please don’t let anyone make you feel confused and desperate. People like that don’t care about you, and you don’t need them in your life.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:46 am
I think the advice you’ve given is very sound. She absolutely should be looking for a reliable and well recommended financial advisor. And, if she’s really looking to do something with her money, the stock market is a great idea now. As I heard on Dave Ramsey last week “Everything is on sale.”
November 7th, 2008 at 6:19 am
Good advice JD. She needs to stay far far away from this financial adviser. I smell a crook.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:23 am
This might be a good time for Joleen to read “The Four Pillars of Investing” by William Bernstein which was previously reviewed on GRS. I bought this book last week based on JD’s recommendation. I am in a similar financial situation to Joleen - no debt, good amount of savings, and I am wondering “what’s next” in the financial journey to independence. I would like to get more return on my money, but don’t really understand what the stock market is, or how to use it. The Four Pillars is an excellent education - and not too hard to read. I think it addresses many of Joleen’s concerns head on. Thanks for the recommendation JD. This is a great read. I am planning to finish it slowly and carefully and then dip my toe in the waters of Asset Allocation.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:37 am
Other than the pressure from the “advisor”, Joleen’s situation isn’t too different from mine.
I was raised by parents who always told me that the best thing to do was to be frugal and save for the future and that the best place to save money was in a Bank (in CDs). Stocks and Markets were for the experts.
I followed their advice to the letter for the last 25 years.
After I came to the US in 2005 to stay for good, I bumped into several PF blogs which made me realize that though my goal (i.e. frugality and savings) was right on the mark, the methods I was using (i.e. CD’s only) could be improved.
I used a good year of my time doing research and realized the importance of diversifying investments, building a good portfolio, asset allocation and so on and finally took the plunge in October 2008 - of course, with an Index fund that follows the S&P 500.
My advice to you, Joleen, is:
1. Tell the “advisor” to stay away from you for 6 months.
2. Use the first month to evaluate your finances - see where you are, what you think you should be.
3. Set financial goals for yourself such as - By May 2010, I should have atleast xxx invested in a diversified manner.
4. Read books, PF blogs and fine tune your goals. Think about several what-if scenarios.
5. When the advisor comes back, tell him your financial situation without mentioning any of the research you’ve done and see what he suggests. His overall approach should tally with what you’ve researched and decided.
6. Repeat step 5 with a few more advisors so that you are sure that you are on the right track.
7. Finally, take the plunge.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:39 am
Be very careful. There are many financial scams in China. The recourse available to her in the courts there is minimal. Also, China’s legal structure places strict limits on non-nationals’ holding of their stocks.
Best advice is to pay whatever you need in order to convert to USD and then put it in Vanguard / Etrade / Fidelity / etc.
Be very careful - it’s incredibly easy for a foreigner to loose it all in China.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Some great advice JD. I work as a Financial Advisor in the Canadian banking industry. Unfortunately, I don’t have the expertise to provide some insight to Joleen. Many of her questions may have tax implications and she should speak with an accounting or tax professional. Especially, if she is thinking of returning to Canada.
While I don’t call out blindly to find clients (I work with an existing client base) a portion of the industry does work this way. What Joleen should do if she wants to continue with this individual is ask for a reference from him. If he balks at that she should walk away.
However, the fact that he’s telling her she needs to decide within a week is setting all sorts of alarm bells of in my head. He may just want the sale to close before his next pay cut off or he may be trying to scam her. If it were me, I’d walk away from this particular advisor.
There are two rules to follow in investing: 1) Don’t invest in something you don’t understand. Think of the ABCP scandal that started our current financial trouble over a year ago. Not enough people, especially the common investor, understood the product. 2) Interview your financial professional. If you don’t like what you hear or see, if they make you nervous, then walk away. There are plently of financial professionals out there, find one who deserves your business.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:48 am
” I’ve had one meeting with him and I’m still not very clear on what the deal is.”
To me, this says that he doesn’t *want* you to be “very clear on what the deal is”. Never invest in something you don’t understand– and the harder an investment is to understand, the more likely it is that someone is worried that if you understood it, you’d stay far, far away.
The pressure to decide quickly is another red flag. Whatever you decide to do, I’d not do it with this particular “adviser”.
It’s not going to make or break your financial future for your money to be sitting in a savings account for a couple of weeks or a couple of months while you decide what you want to do with it. (To give yourself a little breathing room if you’re feeling pressured, you might want to put it in a 3 or 6 month FDIC insured CD, to get a little more interest than your savings account while deciding what you want to do with it after that.)
It’s more important that you understand where you’re putting your money and are comfortable with it than it is for it to (hypothetically) be earning the highest possible return quickly. Rushing into something you don’t understand because someone (well-meaning or no) convinces you that you’d be crazy not to is a good way to lose, big time.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:51 am
As soon as I saw “offshore”, I got a bad feeling about this. When Jolene mentioned she only had a week to decide on this fantastic offer, it got worse.
If he’s that good, he’ll wait. Actually if he’s really good, you would probably have to wait to see him.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:52 am
I would recommend getting a fee-based Financial Planner. You won’t have to worry if they are just trying to sell you something, but will have good advice on how to invest to reach certain goals. You can check out napfa.org to find one.
If you are young, right now is an excellent time to invest. Despite the recent market turmoil, the stock market is the best way to grow your money over a long period of time. I know that a lot of people prefer to take control of their investments by themselves, but a good financial planner is worth it. Think of it as a second opinion. You should still learn about how the stock market works though. The basics are pretty straightforward, and this way you can have an intelligent conversation with your financial planner.
Hope this helps! Don’t be scared- I don’t know anyone who hasn’t lost money in the market, it’s just a fact of life. But with good planning and sound advice, you’ll be able to follow the trends of the market and grow your money in the long term
November 7th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Advisors who fail to make sure they understand the client’s long, intermediate and short term goals, as well as their values regarding money, are doing a disservice to the client. You, the client, should be able to see that the plans put in place relate to your overall goals and values. You should feel comfortable with where your money is. It should not keep you up at night worrying.
Education should also be an integral part of the advisory process. If you, the client, do not know why you should be in the product being presented, you should not be in that product until you understand, or maybe not at all. Make sure your advisor is oriented toward educating you regarding all opportunities presented. It is your money – you need to know where it is, what it is doing for you, and why you have it in that vehicle.
Your advisor should offer you at least two scenarios, three is preferred. These scenarios should be modeled to reach your goals and to match your values. You should be able to understand the workings of each model and how said model is projected to meet your goals. You should also clearly understand the differences between these models.
Transparency in all transactions is vital. You should know all fees involved and how they work. You also have the right to know the commission earned for the advisor from each transaction. An advisor’s refusal to disclose their earnings from a transaction is an indication that you should seek another advisor.
While I do have the occasional client who does not wish to ‘be bothered with the details’, it is my fiduciary responsibility to make sure they understand the what, where and why of each product they are considering.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:02 am
Just going to echo what has already been said, but I wouldn’t work with anyone who approaches you looking for business. These are usually salesmen, and will more than likely pressure you into something.
That’s not to say this guy is a crook or will lose all of your money, but the odds aren’t in your favor for them having your best interests at heart. You should find financial help on your terms, not the other way around.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Remember that no one cares more about your money than YOU do.
JD and the other commenters are correct … run away FAST from a “financial adviser” who **approaches you**.
If (after research) you do feel you want to go with a financial adviser, contract with a credentialed “fee only” adviser, one whose fee is a set fee, not a fee based on commission.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:14 am
NEVER invest in China.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Great advice above, there’s wisdom in there.
One other piece I would add: pay attention to how you feel when you interact with this guy (or any other). If you feel confused, that’s not a good sign. If you feel tense or rushed, also bad signs. If you feel peaceful and relaxed, those are good signs. We as humans have some astounding sensitivities that defy explanation but which we would be wise to pay attention to.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:26 am
I have always had the belief that an investment advisor can give you as much information as he needs to in 15 minutes. If you don’t understand in 15 minutes what they’re trying to sell you, it’s because they don’t want you to know. After a meeting, if you don’t have any idea what they’re trying to do, it is probably best to just walk away.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Yes, I agree that no one should make rash decisions, or even trust someone upon meeting them. And yes, I strongly reccomend using someone who uses the fixed-fee system and is completely transparent. But, there is a feeling out process, and a period where the advisor’s intentions and abilities should be revelaed. As I stated in my previous post, just having paper on the wall means nothing. I know plenty of people, including family members who used highly educated professionals and got burned. Turns out that many professionals are only interested in their own bank accounts, and will force their views and insights upon clients without taking the time to actually listen to the client’s problems and desired goals.
To put it another way: do you run away from everyone who approaches you out of nowhere? If that was the case, how would you have ever met the people in your life? Many people met their partners and closest friends through chance encounters.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:28 am
First off, congrats on having a “good” problem! You’ve got a good bit in savings and now are just trying to find out the best avenue to make it work for you and still have the ability to sleep at night after you’ve made the decision on how to do that.
I’m in the business, and my mentor/boss gave me one great piece of advice that might help you in this situation. He told me that “The sales process should always happen at the customer’s pace - never at our pace.” In this case, for us, it may mean more education up front, more meetings that don’t result in an immediate sale, more work on our part, etc - but that’s what we signed up for. That’s my job. Ultimately, I feel this method produces happier, more educated clients who are comfortable with our recommendations and are going to stick with us for the long-term. I may be sacrificing some sales, but I want happy clients. This in turn makes me happier and my job easier.
If you are in this for the long-term - it really isn’t going to make much difference if you start investing tomorrow or next week or a few months from now. You’re not trying to time a market. What matters is that you understand what you are doing and that you are comfortable with it.
Seek out the advice of a couple of people. Specifically, ask people from different social circles - some coworkers, some friends, and then read some websites. Take your time. “Shop” advisors just like you’d shop for something else. Meet with some advisors. Tell them you are meeting with a few people. Tell them what you want and expect - namely someone who isn’t going to sell you once and forget your name. Tell them you don’t understand any of this and you may need a teacher. Tell them you might not make a decision until these things happen.
You’ve taken the first step by trying to become more involved in what you’re doing - congrats. You’ve happened upon a good site with insightful readers. You’ll find yourself good help, good advice, and you’ll be able to sleep well at night knowing you make good decisions.
Best wishes!
November 7th, 2008 at 7:29 am
I had an investment advisor for more than ten years without knowing anything about investing, I just left it up to him. After a family tragedy I got into big debt, not from spending, from not being able to work and not changing the budget accordingly. Long story short I started to read obsessively about finance at the age of 52, I so wish I had done so at Joleen’s age, such an amazing future if she does the right thing now!
Anyway as a Canadian I have found that any book by Gordon Pape is good to learn about money management, he is a well known conservative investment advisor here and also ‘The Empowered Investor’ by Keith Matthews who favours index investing and is Canadian as well. They take into account our retirement savings plans (RSP’s) and tax situations, Gordon Pape also has a question and answer forum on his website which I read regularly.
All the above advice is also great about caution around this guy, I don’t like the ‘decide by next week’, that’s a red flag for me.
Incidentally after all my reading, I now see that my investor was very good and chose what I would have chosen for my plan but I have my own plan now too!
November 7th, 2008 at 7:33 am
I a mortgage professional, not quite a financial planner, but I also deal with large sums of people’s money by helping them acquire one of the largest purchases they will make and likely one of the largest payments they will make each month. Being pressured into a decision related to your finances is a bad thing, and I would suggest not dealing with a person who does pressure you into a quick financial decision. I do disagree with some of the statements about salespeople who approach potential customers likely to result in a bad outcome. How would any salesperson ever become successful if they didn’t approach potential customers? I agree with other posts though about being in-tune with your feelings or comfort with the person you are looking to work with. The fact that the question was asked and this post was made shows that there is not a comfort level and you should find someone you feel confident is looking for your best interest.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Just to clarify, I do not personally make it a practice to simply approach people. I just happen to think that some generalities that are thrown around should be challenged and questioned. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:57 am
The most important part of your advice, JD, is the bit about goals. Joleen’s money must work for her to achieve her deepest life goals.
Here in the UK we distinguish transaction based, commission earning financial advisers from fee based, solutions oriented financial planners. We are also beginning to see the emergence of financial life planners (and here I declare an interest as one of the few life planners in the UK).
It sounds as though Joleen’s “planner” is in fact a salesman masquerading as a planner.
I would recommend that at the very least Joleen finds a Certified Financial Planner, of which there are a number in the Far East (try the international section of the FPA website, FPA.net).
However, she might like to go one further and appoint a life planner who will spend a considerable amount of time listening to her, and exploring her goals and the obstacles to achieving those goals before even beginning to talk about money. Its life changing stuff.
Knowledge is one of the stages in the financial life planning process, and a life planner will spend a considerable amount of time helping her to understand money, and her relationship with money (we talk about the human side of money).
There are not so many Registered Life Planners around yet. Its a fairly new profession, but if Joleen goes to the Kinder Institute website (www.kinderinstitute.com), she should be able to find some contacts there.
Great post, and good advice, JD. Many thanks.
November 7th, 2008 at 8:26 am
4 words: Fee ONLY Financial Planner.
Not fee based, Fee ONLY.
Anybody else is not going to have your best interests at heart and is just peddling financial products for the commissions.
November 7th, 2008 at 8:30 am
I would absolutely not use this financial planner. Not because he approached you, which as other financial advisers here pointed out, is a legitimate way for them to get business, but because:
–He is pressuring you to commit in a week. A good adviser would be patient and give you as much time and info you need to feel comfortable. Even if he isn’t a scam artist, this is not the kind of person who really has your best interest at heart.
–After several meetings, you don’t feel you understand what he is offering and how it will improve your financial situation. Someone who is selling you something is putting his best self forward. What’s he going to be like when he already has your business? My bet is inaccessible and frustrating.
Remember, you are in a good situation. Don’t let the pressure of feeling like you have to do SOMETHING with your money force you into doing what isn’t actually in your best interest. You need to educate yourself more so you can feel comfortable making your own decisions (such as moving the money into Vanguard index funds) or finding an adviser to help you. Your money is not going to disappear from the bank while you figure this stuff out. Just reading a variety of personal finance blogs and books will expose you to different opinions, but also help you figure things out for yourself.
November 7th, 2008 at 8:58 am
I tend to not trust anyone with my money but myself, but if she really wants to deal with a financial adviser I’d agree with some of the commenters above and find an ELP from Dave Ramsey’s website.
November 7th, 2008 at 9:23 am
@ ekrabs & neil: this guy pressuring you to decide within 1 week really raised red flags for me, too. That alone makes me want to advise you to avoid this guy by all means. If anybody approached me out of the blue, and then had the temerity to GIVE ME A DEADLINE?!?!? I’d say no, thanks - and don’t call me again.
November 7th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Just piling on — if you don’t understand what a financial planner is talking about, or if you aren’t comfortable with him, move on. There are lots of good pros out there, and if you ask around and research, you’ll find a good one.
I’d say that you’d be taking on more risk by trusting this stranger with your savings than you would be if you waited and spent time learning about international currency, investments, and so forth, so that you have questions to ask a professional when you’re ready.
I’ve found that too many financial planners don’t think that girls/women “get” money, and will either try to snow us or ignore us. Don’t know if that’s part of your situation, but thought I’d put that idea out there. I sat through meetings with two different FPs who talked to DH about money and investing and me about our clothing budget. We didn’t go back.
November 7th, 2008 at 9:51 am
I’m also in the financial services industry, and while our clients are mainly institutional, cold-calls are limited but by no means uncommon. For a personal financial planner, I would not automatically write someone off *just* because they cold-call you.
However, I concur that the pressure tactics being used by this individual are unprofessional and, for lack of a better word, sketchy. Please look for someone who will address your personal concerns and work in your favor.
I handle all my accounts myself, and friends are always asking me for advice. While I don’t have time to manage their money, I refer them to a couple sites that are good resources for all levels of investors– here you go:
This article from Money magazine that lays out investments in a very simple, structured way. Consider starting here, then branching out into other articles for more detail as you get your feet wet.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/09/pf/funds/7_investments.moneymag/index.htm
For basic definitions to in-depth discussions, http://www.fool.com is also a comprehensive source of information.
Hope this helps!
November 7th, 2008 at 10:16 am
In any case, she will have to research *very carefully* what her tax consequences would be from withdrawals from any investment plan once she returns home.
Second, regarding overseas “financial planners”: some of these individuals are scammers who take advantage of expats’ cash reserves and desire to invest and receive advice from an English-speaking advisor. My advice is to research this “planner” very carefully with your local expat community, either through online bulliten boards or word of mouth. Individuals with a poor track record will have left dissatisfied customers behind. This is also a good way to locate good financial advisors, however– again, asking around.
Finally, with the financial markets roiling, I personally think a “do nothing” approach (i.e. keep saving) is a good idea for right now. If you eventually want to return to your home country, sending money home to a bank account in Canada (the same amount every month to “dollar cost average) is a good way to repatriate your money. In the meantime, read up on finance and investing on some of the books recommended here. When you know more, you’ll be able to make a better informed decision about what products to choose.
HTH!
November 7th, 2008 at 11:17 am
I disagree with financegirl - fee-based advisors can still have their client’s best interests at heart! Joleen needs to go with someone she feels comfortable with, regardless of the manner in which they are paid!
November 7th, 2008 at 11:29 am
I second the fee-ONLY financial planner. It makes it much less likely that the financial planner has a conflict of interest.
I have worked with “free” financial planners in the past. I have no doubt they had my best interest in mind with respect to the financial products their company offered. However, a fee-ONLY financial planner will typically not represent a specific company and will make sure you are involved with the best products available on the market - not just the best product at the company they work for (which may not be all that great).
November 7th, 2008 at 11:29 am
I personally trust all of them to have their own interest at heart. My interests are at best a distant second.
I see no reason to use a “financial advisor” at all, I’d never invest in something I don’t understand, and if I do understand it, I don’t need the advisor.
But even if I did, I’d certainly not even consider a “advisor” that approached me and even resorts to used-car-salesman tactics. The time-pressure tactics are a certain sign he is thinking of his own closing-bonus, not of your investments.
There are no investments available now that won’t also be in a month, a year or a decade. Any attempt to push you; “you need to deside THIS week” should be considered a wildly blinking warning-sign.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Something in here so important I wanted to restate it: The “advisor’s” deadline is an attempt at gaining control. Our writer is trying to decide whether to purchase services from an outside business. Hence, there is no deadline.
There may be some validity in the cold call argument, but this advisor is too pushy and trying to gain the upper hand.
The writer’s instincts are excellent and reaching out for more information shows even more good judgement. Kudos.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Since the risk of scammers is very high in China and she has no experience in finance, she should stay away from any kind of complex decision. My advice: choose a branch of a large american or canadian bank in Hong Kong or even better Singapore. Transfer your savings there, I would prefer an account either in US$ or Canadian dollars. If you feel chickenhearted about the economy, better an account in euro. But please do not buy funds, start no kind of life insurance or any other crazy idea.
Sorry for my bad english, it is not my mother tongue.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Well said everyone. The advice I would give to Joleen, and to everyone is to learn as much about managing money as you can. The unfortunate thing about education in the United States (I don’t know if it’s any different in Canada) is that virtually nothing is taught about money. As a result most of us are at the mercy of so-called experts.
If you’re really serious about managing your finances, I would pick up a copy of Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki. Please know that I don’t receive any renumeration for plugging it - I’m just a big fan. This book will give you a good amount of basic information so you can understand this weird world of finance. I picked up my copy several years ago and have never looked back.
November 7th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Thanks for this article, JD. This is something I will have to consider myself in the near future. Based on the additional comments, it seems like a good plan of action would be:
1. find a good “home country” tax lawyer and/or accountant to review tax liabilities with international investments.
2. look into exchanging local currency to “home currency” and invest in traditional vehicles (perhaps through an online service).
3. check in with the expat community to see if there are suggestions for financial advisors familiar with expat issues.
4. don’t make any hasty decisions; don’t be pressured into anything; understand everything
5. perhaps talk to someone at an international bank? citibank is located world-wide and probably deals with these issues too.
Thanks!
November 7th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
I think the key here is this : “I’m still not very clear on what the deal is.”
As JD said: “Only make investments you understand.”
As a rule: If you do not understand an investment then do not invest in it. Many mistakes in personal investing can be avoided by a bit of research. Very complex investments may have hidden fees or conditions that you’re unaware of but should really know about. Inform yourself first on all the risks, fees and conditions of an investment before you seriously think about committing your money to something.
Jim
November 7th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I absolutely agree with Wendy’s advice about the tax implications of investing in a foreign country. I am a Canadian living in the US, and the year we moved here we had to pay income taxes in both countries, which of course includes capital gains. There are a lot of questions Joleen needs to answer before she considers investing in China. Do Canada and China have a tax treaty that will allow taxes paid in China to be credited towards her Canadian taxes? When you leave China, can you take all your money with you, or do you need to leave some behind for a while? For example, if I sell my home here in the US and return to Canada, I am required to pay 10% “sales” tax on at the time of the sale, which will be returned once that year’s income taxes have been filed. This is a measure to ensure foreign investors pay their fair share of taxes, I believe. Perhaps China has a similar holding period?
If she plans on returning to Canada, I think she should wire her money back to her Canadian bank and invest as much as she can spare in an RRSP (the Canadian equivalent of the 401k). Then she can benefit from the tax advantages of retirement contributions on her Canadian income tax, and that money is eligible for use as a down payment on her first home later on, if she wishes. If she does not wish to invest right now, at least put the money in a CD and let it grow.
I don’t know anything about financial advisors, but I must agree with all the PP’s who say she should not be rushed!
November 7th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I dont trust China markets. Thats why im shorting them. Made a lot of money doing with the help of this guy. http://www.crashmarketstocks.com
November 7th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
JD-
I think you are right on with your advice. She does not need to rush into investment too quickly that she might regret later. Her first goal should be acquire some basic personal finance and investment knowledge. Whether it be a multitude of internet resources or her local bookstore, she needs to learn these basics herself. By reading up on these subjects, her fear will dissipate, she can set concrete goals and then make wise decisions.
Jim M.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
I echo the voices urging caution. I am also living in China. A couple of things to consider: 1) If you work with a financial advisor, it should be someone who understands both the Chinese and the Canadian tax system and can work with you to minimize your short-term and long-term tax burden on an investment. Someone from the UK or Australia or the US may offer you completely irrelevant advice or even suggest things that will be inappropriate for your situation if they don’t know the Canadian system; 2) The RMB is NOT a readily convertible currency. If you are here on a legitimate work visa/work permit you should be able to convert a certain percentage of your RMB earnings into hard currency. I would recommend doing this as a security measure.
We actually have quite a large amount in our RMB bank accounts at the moment, as my DH wanted to lock in the higher exchange rate at the beginning of the year. But I am quite nervous about it.
Don’t let this “advisor” push you into anything. Next time you meet with him you might want to bring a friend along — or even have a guy friend pose as your “fiancee” or something, just so you have a backup. A good financial advisor will be thinking in the long term, and will not push you to jump into something immediately. Be very wary of “this deal is only good for another week” type sales pitches.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
You should only use an advisor that is paid by YOU — not by commissions, incentives or a third party.
Seek a “fee-only” advisor. This way, the only entity paying the advisor is YOU - not some other distracting interest…
“A wise man should have money in his head, but not in his heart.” ~ Jonathan Smart
November 7th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
The real issue here is the fact that it is CHINA. I am extraordinarily pro-China, and also extremely in favor investing in China. The country represents the future of the human species, and the wealth which will be created there over the next couple of decades in mind-boggling. I have a substantial amount of my cash savings in Chinese RMB, and also a humongous percentage of my investment portfolio is in the Chinese stock market. There is no question in a couple of decades that China will be far more powerful, wealthier, and more important than America, Europe, and Japan.
However, I would not trust a Chinese man to sell me a roll of toilet paper, let alone an investment portfolio. IMHO, the least trustworthy people on the planet, outside a few other third world countries.
November 8th, 2008 at 1:18 am
I full understand where Finance Girl is coming from on FEE ONLY. I am fee only, but have to recognise that this form of payment does exclude my services from a segment of the population that does not want - or cannot - write out a cheque for the fees we charge.
Fee based can be a good solution for many people desparate for sound advice, whereby fees are charged, but payment may be a combination of invoice or commission offset.
I also agree with NickK - fee based advisers can and do have their clients best interests at heart. There is an old adage: everyone distrusts financial advisers - except their own. I think we need to be careful of making generalisations about the integrity of financial advisers. Sure, there are rogues in this world, but there are many who have done a fantastic job for their clients. Sorry, forgive my rant, Finance Girl, but I feel strongly about the whole issue of personal integrity.
Back to Joleen: when it comes to paying for services, distinguish between WHAT you pay, and HOW you pay. Make sure that WHAT you pay gives good value for money. HOW you pay will depend on your circumstances.
November 8th, 2008 at 5:51 am
“Call me crazy”
You’re crazy.
November 8th, 2008 at 6:36 am
I’m Canadian, and I met with a mutual funds advisor yesterday to discuss what would happen to my investments if my husband and I work overseas next year (it’s tentative at this point…) She informed me we can’t call the bank and have them take any action on our investments from out of country, even out of province (I think it’s illegal) so I would advise Joleen to make her decision based on which country she will be living in in the future- maybe there is someone at the nearest Canadian consulate who can let her know what is legal and illegal re. moving her money internationally? My thought is, if in doubt, wait. I don’t work in the financial sector (obviously
) and I have no knowledge of international law in this case, but I do know that the last thing I would want would be to unknowingly commit fraud overseas. Good luck, Joleen!
November 8th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
As for whether to get into the stock market now:
1) Only with long-term money. If you are going to need the money for a house, vacation, or anything within the next five years, it should NOT be in the stock market.
2) With long-term money, do not jump in all at once. While the market is currently down a lot, the economic situation is dire and the market could certainly go much lower. I would suggest a dollar-cost-averaging approach over at least three years. That is, put 3% of your available funds in each month over the next three years.
As for vehicles to do this, I would recommend index funds from a discount broker. I use Schwab, but Vanguard and Fidelity are excellent as well.
If you have any questions, come see me at my blog, where the advice is always free and sometimes good.
November 8th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Another thing to keep in mind on the topic of advisors. No matter how good you may think (or have been told) your advisor is, if you find yourself too intimidated by them to be able to talk to them normally or ask them questions, you should not hire them. Financial advisors, lawyers, accountants, anyone charged with ensuring your future!
November 9th, 2008 at 7:45 am
I work as a Financial Ad visor in the US and these are my thoughts.
1. I don’t know what it’s like in Canada, but the FINRA and the SEC prohibit Financial Ad visors from imposing supposedly urgent deadlines on our clients. Before you invest in anything, you should be given a prospectus and be given time to do your own research. This sounds fishy to me, regardless of whether this person is with a major firm. There are still crooks out there.
2. There are honest advisors out there. Go to the Financial Planning Association Website, or to FINRA’s website to check out an advisors credentials.
3. Ask some of your trusted advisors (such as your tax person, banker, etc) for whom they recommend.
4. All people could benefit from an honest and trustworthy financial adviser. Tiger Woods is one of the best golfers in the world, but he still uses a coach. He also uses several advisers to help him make better money choices. It shouldn’t be about how much money you have to invest, but what your goals and values are first.
4. Now MIGHT be a good time to invest in the stock market, but it MIGHT NOT. It depends on your time horizon and your long term goals. However, one method I recommend is to use dollar cost averaging. That is, systematically investing over time. Read “The Automatic Millionaire” by David Bach for more info.
Disclaimer: This post is merely my own personal opinion. For specific financial, legal, or tax advice, see your own adviser.
November 9th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Beware of anyone who gives you a deadline or timeline other than yours. This guy is a salesman like most “financial advisors” are.
November 9th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Joleen sounds like a financial beginner, so I would strongly suggest staying away from fee based advisors or any cold callers. Please do not mistake that I think all cold callers are crooks, it is just too risky.
Investment w/in China is not so simple (I have no idea how they regulate or protect foreigners, you may have no protection at all).
For beginning investing, low expense, index funds or low expense balanced funds (especially conservative ones). I personally love Vanguard, but they aren’t the only good fund family. As a beginner, Joleen may be most comfortable with a regular investment schedule. It has the advantage of dollar cost averaging, and you feel like you aren’t making a bet on the market.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:03 am
I’d be very suspicious. Having working in the financial industry for over a decade, one thing I’ve learnt is that you shouldn’t trust anyone! There are good people about, but they’re hard to tell from those who’d sell their own grandmother for a quick buck (I’ve seen it happen).
It’s an industry full of smoke and mirrors. People don’t want you to know what the deal is because that knowledge will allow you to pin them down, hold them accountable for the decisions they’ve made you take.
If there were a way to always make money consistently on the stockmarket, whoever’s discovered it isn’t selling that information. Why would he? It’s his competitive advantage!
Even the experts get it wrong all the time, remember when they were saying last year that the credit crunch was a dream?
I’d read a book called “Why Smart People Make Big Money Mistakes and How to Correct Them”.
It’s a great insight into how you can avoid lots of bad mistakes!
November 10th, 2008 at 8:24 am
I’m a recent reader, and most of what I know about money - mine, and generally - is “clear up debt as fast as you can”.
However, based on what I HAVE heard from other people, I would actually say that I am very much with Frugal Bachelor on this one; his advice tallies with what I have heard. I think Joleen needs to do some reading, and I think she needs to stay away from this one “advisor” in particular, and I would do a whole lot of research before I would be involved in a financial transaction with a Chinese national, since I’ve heard such disheartening stories with regard to their honesty.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Hmmm…
I am a newly-minted commission-based Registered Rep, and I’ve seen my supervisor try to avoid commissions to save her client’s money. There are good and bad people everywhere, and gross generalities are always wrong (including this one).
I have a small investment with a Chinese investment company that has languored for years now, and I have no idea if we will ever see it again… Many people do business in China because it is so hard to enforce regulations there. I would be very, very cautious around advisers there - especially if they give deadlines.
And I agree with the sentiment here. You are in no hurry, get an education first. Read, and find advisors that really want to advise. Talk to them, learn, and understand - if you lose money, you’ll be the one out so don’t let anyone else make the decisions. If you watch a good leader, they listen to advisors, then make their own decisions and take responsibility for them. In the end, your gains or losses are yours, not your advisor’s.
As WK said: Disclaimer: This post is merely my own personal opinion. For specific financial, legal, or tax advice, see your own adviser.
November 12th, 2008 at 8:25 am
Here is a clear litmus test to apply to financial advice:
If the person rendering the advice talks more about the product being sold than about your needs (risk tolerance and life goals) the pitch should be considered illegitimate. Walk away.
November 12th, 2008 at 10:39 am
I haven’t read all the other comments - but the question about whether to go with this FA is a no-brainer. First, don’t go with anyone who solicits you - that’s a salesperson. Second, don’t invest in something you yourself admit you don’t understand. If the scheme this salesperson is trying to sell you is so complicated you can’t understand it, run. Third, if you are expected to make a decision within a week - or on anyone else’s timetable but your own, RUN. Never trust an FA who uses high pressure sales tactics.