Ask the Readers: How Do You Talk to Your Loved Ones About Money?
Published on - November 21st, 2008 (by J.D. Roth) What happens when you take control of your finances, but the other people in your life continue to struggle? I’ve heard this question from two people lately. During the Q&A of my talk at the library last Saturday, one audience member asked:
You mentioned during your presentation that you had two friends give you books [when you were having financial trouble]. Is that how you recommend approaching the discussion to friends and families who need that kind of advice?
Coincidentally, Jenni wrote this week with a similar dilemma:
I’m so excited about getting control over my money, and when I talk to my family and friends, they are also very happy for me. But, as I talked to my mother and my boyfriend, I’ve suggested changes I’ve read about that they each can make. The result is they get angry, defensive, or hurt.
I’m not criticizing what they’ve done so far — just offering suggestions for what they can do now and in the future. But it touches on a sore spot. Should I just leave them alone, and only talk about my own finances? Do you have suggestions for how to talk with your loved ones about money?
Making positive changes to your financial life gives you a sense of power and control. When you’re in debt, when you spend compulsively, it feels like there’s nothing you can do stop. But as you gradually change your attitudes and behaviors, you eventually reach a point where you realize that you are in control. That moment is liberating. Like any new believer, you want to share what you’ve learned. That’s a good thing. But you need to be careful.
Sometimes when you try to share your new-found wisdom with others, they’re not as excited as you might think. Each person is in a different place. Though you may have friends and family members who could profit from what you’ve learned, if they’re not ready to listen, you run the risk of doing more harm than good when you offer advice.
Here are three subtle ways you can help those who are still struggling:
- Lead by example. Suggest cutting back on the family gift exchange this year. When you go out to dinner with your partner, choose cheaper alternatives. Start walking to the grocery store instead of driving. Bring home books and CDs and DVDs from the library. Don’t make a big deal out of things — just do them. Rather than goad your friends and family into saving, be an example of what can happen through smart money choices.
- Be willing to answer questions. When I was struggling with debt and poor choices, I could see that certain people in my life (such as my wife) had their finances under control. Sometimes I would ask questions. I asked my cousin about mutual funds, and he explained them to me. For a time, I even put money into them. (Then I pulled it out to buy a computer.) Be available as a resource.
- Use the soft sell. When my friend Michael listened to my complaints about money in 2003, he didn’t make a big deal out of it. He told me his financial story, and then mentioned a book he liked called Your Money or Your Life. He didn’t lecture. He didn’t try to convert me. He simply spent a few minutes explaining how he’d solved his problems, and then he let it go. A few days later, a copy of Your Money or Your Life appeared in my mailbox, and I knew it was from him. That was enough.
From personal experience, I believe that books can be a great, gentle tool to introduce the ideas of financial responsibility. Last year, I created a list of personal-finance books that make great gifts. If you can find a way to incorporate one of these (or a personal-finance magazine) naturally into your giving, it may have greater impact than simply bringing up subjects in conversation. But be careful! If done incorrectly, this can be taken as a preachy gift. Nobody likes a preachy gift.
I’m curious how other Get Rich Slowly readers have handled this kind of situation. How do you encourage your family and friends to make smart choices with money without making them defensive or angry? What mistakes have you made in the past? What techniques have you found that work? Does a person have to hit rock bottom before they’re ready to listen?
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One comment I would make if you plan on giving a PF book to someone is to consider long and hard if you plan on gifting it on Christmas or for a birthday or when there is an expectation of receiving a gift. I would think, much like JD’s example, book in the mail or dropped off as a “thinking of what we talked about”, leads to less pressure and no real judgement of the gift receivers actions. Getting something like this as a gift is likely to make the person receiving it feel the person giving it is judging that they’ve screwed up and need help. Sometimes people do need the wake up call, but most times they just lash out and hit the snooze.
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I think it’s best to leave others to do their own thing in life, however much you may think that you know best how they should live their life. There’s a saying that goes “unsolicited advice says more about the giver than the recipient” – of course Jenni’s relatives don’t like it when she gives them unasked for advice. Their finances are for them to sort out, not her. Leading by example may be the best way for her, if she does want to make a difference to those around her.
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Sometimes there is no getting through to others. Trying to talk to people, especially about finances can be the same as talking to them about their weight, smoking, or even drugs. Many people do not feel that they need to change their habits until something happens to force them into realizing that something needs to be done. Not everyone is going to put the same emphasis on getting their financial lives in order as you do, and therefore you cannot make it your mission to change them, or you risk coming off as controlling or condescending which may strain the relationship, specifically with a parent who is much less prone to accept advice from a child. The best thing is to make a concerted effort, and if it doesn’t work, then drop it since they are adults and have to take responsibility for their own actions (or lack thereof).
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I don’t offer my opinion to friends and family unless it’s asked.
I direct my financial opinions to my blog.
But I agree with Martin, I wouldn’t give PF books to my family for Christmas or their birthday unless they were looking for a PF book, otherwise it would be interpreted as a judgement.
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Great topic. I’ve struggled in the past with this. One of the best techniques I’ve learned is to cultivate no drama around money. Calm is beautiful. I actually have a short article on this topic I’m happy to share: http://www.diamondcutlife.org/how-to-talk-about-money/
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I agree with you on the soft sell. It can be difficult sometimes when you “know” the reasons that people are having problems, but it seems to always be best for the relationship in the long run.
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People have to be in a certain place in their lives to “hear” the message about money/frugality. Everyone comes to that on their own terms, and in their own time. We can plant small “seeds” in our conversations with others here and there. Through time, the “seeds” we plant will hopefully grow and bring about change in the lives of others… but this takes patience.
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I like those three steps, JD. Leading by example is the first, and probably most important of the three. If we’re not willing to walk the talk first, then who are we to open our mouths to anyone?
I also like what Eric said – people need to come to the realization themselves. Us, Americans, don’t like to be preached to. We’re a self-sufficient lot. But if we’re humbled through circumstances or bad decisions, we’re much more open to receive counsel. At that time, the soft sell becomes much more effective.
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“Happy for you” is not the same as “wanting advice from you”. If they didn’t specifically and explicitly ask you what to do in their own financial lives, then … yeah, actually, what you did was insulting. It wasn’t intended to be, but it was, nonetheless. Advice is hard enough to take, sometimes, even when it HAS been solicited. If someone expresses interest in learning more about personal finances, a book dropped off as no big deal, in a casual way, is thoughtful. If someone has NOT expressed that kind of interest, and a book such as that is given at Christmas or for a birthday, it is an implicit criticism of someone else’s judgment. Therein lies the difference.
I’d be interested to hear how it applies in a partnership – a marriage where the finances are combined, or the equivalent relationship, where one party’s financial decisions DO affect the other party. What’s the best way to handle THOSE discussions? I didn’t get the impression that Jenni and her boyfriend had interdependent finances – at least, not beyond the “I bought five books this week and can’t take you out to dinner this weekend” variety – not the “I bought five books this week and now I can’t pay my part of the electric bill – I’ll pay you back next month!” variety. What’s the best way to have THAT discussion? (One example about which I bite my tongue – a girl I know agreed to sell an older, valuable, in-good-condition car that belonged to her, to her boyfriend, when he pressed her. He hadn’t quite gotten around to paying her for it when he wrecked it, they now live together, and he will never reimburse her for the car he’s wrecked – and I bite my tongue, but it’s not right.)
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Finances, particularly financial troubles, can be a very touchy subject.
I’ve always found the best approach is to say something along the lines of “I’ve had some experience with that, would you like some advice or are you happy to deal with it yourself?”.
This gives them an easy out – “No thanks, I’m happy to deal with it myself” and isn’t patronising.
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My best friend and I talk about money often. We have similar financial circumstances and we are both interested in personal finance so we do talk about it.
I’m also quite open with my parents, who are comfortable, but by no means wealthy. I am their health and financial power of attorney should something happen so I try to talk to them often about their finances and situation. They are pretty open with me mainly because my father was executor of his uncle’s will and when he died suddenly it was a huge mess that dragged on for years mainly cause my father and uncle never talked about any of it.
However, my husband never talks to his parents about money, his parents are pretty wealthy. Personally, I think I have a much better idea of their circumstances just through the casual conversations I’ve had with his mother. She’s told me their income tax bracket and things like that so I know the range of their annual income, plus she told me about what she inherited from her parents, etc. But I still couldn’t put a real close dollar figure to their worth. And my husband doesn’t have a clue, he didn’t even know the things his mother told me, was actually quite surprised at their income level. That’s a bit sad considering he may be forced to help them should they be unable to make decisions for themselves in the future.
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So like others I recently started reading this blog and getting control over my finances. When I got excited about it, I just wrote emails to a couple of people I knew could use financial help and told them I’d discovered a cool new blog and directed them here. I think the blog is an easier way in than a book, sometimes. You can poke around in it whenever you’re on the internet and it’s not quite as intimidating. Plus it has a catchy name.
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When I’ve “offered friendly advice” to loved ones, it never falls on happy ears. I’m learning to shut up.
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What I’ve done is share with close friends and family (my family all have good financial habits) what we’re doing and why (paid off all non-mortgage debt in 2007, saved almost $50,000 in 2008) and for those that show interest I’ve shared more details and I have given Dave Ramsey’s book to my best friend and she is working the TMM. I’ve also given out some advice to my closest friends.
With other friends (those that I’m not as close with) I also mention what we are doing in more general terms. When asked when I was going to finally get a new car (I was driving a 1999 paid for car while all my work friends drive luxury cars that they lease) I would share that I was saving up cash to pay for a new car. When I finally bought my nused car in September of this year they all cheered for me. But some times those habits rub off and some times they don’t, shortly after I bought my car one of my good friends went out and leased (again) another luxury car and she is paying $600 a month for her lease. This is a friend who is still paying of professional school loans too. I didn’t say anything negative about the lease or her new car but in my head I was upset with her. so, I share what I’m doing and I share my milestones like paying off Mr. Sam’s MBA student loans and our other debts and paying cash for the car and our upcoming Thanksgiving vacation but I don’t get “preachy” with them.
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When I read this question I went in a different direction. I thought of my children, all boys. I have talked to my oldest son about money and the uses etc. I did not use any personal finance books. What I did use was his Personal Management Merit Badge book from the Boy Scouts. You do not have to be in scouts to read it. It does have a series of requirements which would be good for just about anyone to do. I sat down and redid it after 20 years just to see what I do differently now than when I was in Boy Scouts.
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My parents did a good job of being open with finances teaching us to be financially responsible from a young age. This atmosphere of openness allows us to be pretty frank about financial issues, though their imparted wisdom means there aren’t many “down” financial issues, just “how to be even better”. It’s certainly not very helpful for those wanting to start from zero, but for raising your children, it’s a good lesson that kids do learn what you teach them.
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I have had success with my children using the steps you outlined. Lead by example, sometimes talking about some financial move you made and why you made it. Then share educational info about personal finance by sending links to articles etc. Low key works best.
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My wife and I talk about finances all the time. We don’t discuss it with family because they have different values … like spending! And not saving! We have learned to keep it to ourselves because we know we’re doing it the right way.
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@La BellaDonna
We’ve actually talked about the specific “how to talk to my spouse about money” subset of this question a couple of times in the past. That’s even trickier!
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JD-Great post!
I try not to talk about money. Unless they ask me directly I don’t give advice. Everyone who knows me well knows that I’m pretty sharp in the personal finance arena. They see it because of the example we set and how we talk. They know I was a command financial specialist when I was in the navy. They know about our blog and its topics. In other words, they know I am there for them if they need it.
If they do ask for advice I confirm they really want advice. Often someone wants to vent or to get you to validate a decision they want to make. If advice is what they need I’m blunt but caring. Note: I have an advantage. I was a command financial specialist while in the navy. One of my jobs was to counsel people in severe financial straits.
Another thing I find is that they are wanting you to offer them a loan. The conversation (or asking your advice) is their way to ease into asking you for money. If this happens you need to be careful. It really can be a no win situation unless you are prepared and are careful. I wrote an article How to Respond When Your Family Asks for Money to address this situation.
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I think that my fiscally responsible boyfriend was successful in using the soft sell by introducing me to Get Rich Slowly. I read JD’s blog everyday and am open to talking about money. I am now in control of my personal finances whereas before I would often bury my head in the sand.
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I work in banking so when I talk about investing or debt management friends/family tend to listen to what I’m saying. What they do with that advice afterwards is up to them. However, I also make a point not to intrude on their business. If they want my advice they know they can ask. I think a book is a great idea, either by following up on a conversation or as a gift for a birthday or Christmas.
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simple answer: I don’t.
Many years ago, when I lived at home, my mother was struggling with finances, so I tried to share with her some of the tools I use manage my spending. I set her up on Quicken, and while she was diligent about enter transactions, she never really got the power of the tool to help you know where you are spending too much and how you can save money. She has had financial ups and downs since then, and I find it is more peaceful if I don’t offer my opinion.
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Although not the conventional method, I offer to directly help them with their finances. First, I start with their retirement savings. I analyze their portfolio for them, explain what it means (i.e. point out the balance of large cap vs. mid cap vs. small cap, domestic vs. international, stock vs. bond), and commend them for saving, period. I work with them to determine their own personal assett allocation, and help them move their money around to make it happen (i.e. rolling over old 401ks into Vanguard IRAs, etc) I like to drop in the fact that the average 50 year old American has 50k or less saved for retirement, and tell them how great (or average) they are doing in comparison. This gets them empowered and they want more. I then explain the value of the high-yield savings account (or another PF byte) and tell them how much they are effectively paying their bank annually for the privilege of keeping it at the same brick and mortar institution versus an online bank (i.e. 0% vs. 3% annually). Anyway, each bit is delivered in a light that makes them want to ask me the next question, whether it be about life insurance, frugality, debt reduction, or whatever. I try and empower them and commend them for the steps they are doing right, while making my own personal finances an open book.
Lastly, I bait them with the promise of 10$ if they let me help them with their personal finances. It’s my own crusade and I’ll only do it for people I care about, so it’s well worth the money. Using this method, I have helped do a PF makeover (or some portion therein) for 3 co-workers, my parents, and 4 friends and couples.
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My wife and I are very open about our finances. We have our own separate accounts, and a joint account to pay bills. We have found this really works well for us, and helped us to avoid arguments over money.
-Dan Malone-
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I like the 3rd point with soft sell. That reminds myself when i approached this kind of situation about the money, a sensitive matter for many people. I like to be direct and in the same time diplomatic.But I don’t like to do it in public to show off that i know best about the solutions.
A did send to many friends of mine ebooks and training packages to know about the financial freedom. I had many good responses and bad, but the point is to do it anyway, because you never know for who it works. Of course there will unpleasant discussions, but that also makes you stronger and you are getting to know the human psychology, which for examples will guide you how to approach people when you are a sale person. You can always get something from any situations.
I think we need to find the right time and place when we need to come with advice of such matter. To do it with charm, respect to others and compassion. To shut up sometimes it’s worse.
I would definitely recommend Get Rich Slowly blog.
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J.D., thanks for the link! I went, I read, I commented.
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Money is a very touchy subject in my family. My parents split up because they were living beyond their means, and my mother decided to find someone with better means.
The only thing I’ve learned is to not enable them, and it isn’t your fault if they fail massively.
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heh. i’ve got the exact opposite problem. people keep pestering me for help with their personal finances, just because i’m a CPA. I have to keep telling them i work with corporations and partnerships, not personal finance.
if you become a cfp, cfa, cpa, etc… people will approach you for advice.
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I think for me, leading by example is the best way. I don’t know much about the technical aspects of finance but I can show others what I do and then point them to resources that can give them more information than I can (like this blog).
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The approach all depends on the person. For the most part I think it is everyone’s right as an adult to make stupid decisions so I keep my mouth shut unless someone asks.
However I have a different perspective with my parents and mother in law. I don’t offer much unsolicited advice but I am pretty insistent about knowing what they are doing with their money because, should anything happen, I will probably be the one having to track down information and such.
In fact I have had the opposite problem a couple times with my family: they want advice and I am unwilling to give it. This is because I don’t want to be responsible for their decisions. So instead I lay out the options and might say what my decision would be in a simiar case while qualifying everything with statements about my different situation and personal financial style.
On a personal note I am pretty financially savvy and my mom has been driving me crazy as I reorganize some things with comments like “That’s what I suggested a couple months ago.” and “You weren’t receptive to that idea when I brought it up.” Giving advice is like giving a gift. You can’t be insulted if people return it, or abuse it, or put it in a closet and ignore it. Don’t just be gracious when you offer it, but you must also be gracious after. Even if someone is receptive they don’t want you calling up asking if they took your advice.
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OMG, J.D., I’m going back to your “How can I get my wife to talk about money” entry, and add one more comment. Since I don’t know how to link stuff, I’m begging you, follow me there. Thanks!
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Like skipadoo said, having a professional designation related to finance (e.g. the CFP® Certification) can invite friends and family to ask personal finance questions. Arguably, it opens the door to communication on managing finances.
It can be difficult avoiding judgmental statements (“you don’t have credit card debt, do you?”). I’ve learned many tactful ways to ask questions and provide choices from my family members.
Providing choices and information on personal finances has been the most successful way I’ve engaged with friends and family.
Empower them with information and options, but let them take the reins and take control.
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I love giving books of series to my younger family members. I’ll give them the first book of a series of books (like Rich Dad, Poor Dad), and as the years tick away I’ll add the next book of the series. I think that Martin brought up a good point, that I hadn’t really picked up on over the years: that, these books, despite my best intentions, end up on shelves unused. It might be better to give them when there isn’t an anticipation for a “gift”.
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Advice only -works- if it’s asked for. After 20+ years of resisting strongly our dad’s budgeting advice, my self-employed sister asked me to help her figure out how many clients she needed to see in order to meet her monthly expenses. When I told her she needed to figure how much she spent each month in order to know how many clients she needed to see to meet those expenses, the resistance melted away. She needed to get the information for a purpose she could see rather than for the (really good, sensible) reasons Dad had given her.
I also try to give a proportional response to casual comments about finance. I’ve had co-workers say things like, “I don’t know how you manage to save for a car!” Rather than modestly taking a compliment and ignoring the sentiment, I respond with, “I have part of my paycheck direct deposited into a savings account at a different bank than my checking. This works great for me because I never miss the money.” Then I change the subject unless they ask follow up questions. I’ve shared information but I’m not telling them how to live their lives.
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Great article!
I think leading by example and sharing your triumphs with your family is a great way. My husband and I are in a much better place income wise than we were a few years ago, but still struggling on getting debt under control, etc. However, we followed through on some short term debt reduction and credit score improvement goals, so that we were finally in a position to purchase a home earlier this year. That was a major goal for us! And my family was very happy for me.
Like some of the other posters here, I usually just share links and information about books I have read (this blog included) to those friends and family that I am comfortable talking about regarding personal finance. If they read it great, if they want a follow up conversation great. I have learned from other people, and am willing to share what I have learned as well.
However, I have to agree – it doesn’t matter how good or relevant the advice: if they are not ready to hear it or are headstrong, it doesn’t matter.
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You can’t change anyone else. You are only in control of what you, personally, do. For this kind of situation, I take a page from my depression era grandma, who grew up in an age where good manners mattered. Don’t talk money, politics, or religion. If you do, tread with caution and be ready to retreat. If a family/friend specifically asks for help or what you are doing, tell them. But don’t offer unsolicited advice, and definitely don’t try to give them tips to ‘help’. No matter how nicely you say it, it is going to sound like, “I know better than you.”
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It has always been my experience that people are more willing to listen when you present your case in a positive manner. No one wants to hear about what they are doing wrong, so I always start with what they are doing right, then suggest some possible “improvements”.
However, this year for the holidays, I used the “common ground” technique with my family. I admitted to them that we were not doing so well financially, and that due to the current economy, I could imagine that others in the family might be struggling as well. I informed them that we had already told our kids that the holidays would be more about the experience and less about the gifts. By acknowledging that we were struggling first, this seemed to lift a great weight off of everyone’s shoulder’s and everyone was able to agree to skip the gift giving this year.
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A few months ago I gave Your Money or Your Life to a friend turning 30. I’d read it at 40, become a convert (that’s why I’m reading this blog!) and really thought it was the most loving thing I could do for someone, to give them this book — a whole decade younger than I got it. She was thrilled, hugged me, couldn’t wait to dig into it and…just last week told me that she’s looking at houses to buy. NOW. Of all times in history. It is such a dumb move and so what I’d expect of someone who hadn’t had the benefit of my trying to “save” them.
But prices have gone down here in the San Francisco Bay Area, she says! (Ye-e-e-e-s, they certainly have…) She already has loads of debt including a brand new car, rent that’s double mine, all the latest gadgets. You get the picture. And why I targetted her, frankly.
Moral of the story: your money personality is very much a moral and philosophical entity, rather like religion. And just as personal, with all the same pitfalls. You can’t convert anyone. One had better learn that frustration well or you will become like the guys ranting about *their* beliefs on the subway platforms.
And since I’m as irrational as the next human, I’ll still try giving this book to someone else again sometime.
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as a poor grad student with one one small income for two people, the only discussion i have with others about my and my partner’s finances is that we are poor and so can’t go out or buy major stuff very often. most of my friends are grad students or have has experience in the student life, so they understand this, but that doesn’t mean that they try to be as careful with their money as we try to be, so that often means being left out of social events because we literally can’t afford it.
amongst my friends, and others i am sure, there is seems to be some kind of prestige one gets from complaining about being poor despite having major spending habits. it gets really tired when you really are poor to hear these things, so i try to avoid all financial talk with everyone except my partner.
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Just a quick point – Your ideas about money ARE NOT THE ONLY WAYS TO LIVE LIFE. I think it’s fine offer advice, but it’s not gospel.
For example, some people don’t care about cars, but some people do – so driving a 10 year old beater just so they can say “It’s paid off” may not be in their best interest. Another example: I have a few friends who think Dave Ramsey is the Lord God Himself when it comes to financial matters. Anytime I try to have a thoughtful discussion about, say, the advantages of credit card rewards points, they simply shut down and start spouting his “Cut Up Your Credit Cards” rhetoric. I know Ramsey’s ideas well and the advantages his system offers, but that doesn’t mean his is the only way.
Another tip: find common ground for agreement before offering advice. For example, I’ve never met someone who denied the efficacy of saving for retirement. But most have no idea about employee matching, automatic savings plans, etc. So start the discussion out by moaning and groaning a bit about how hard it is to save (establishing common ground), then share a way in which YOU have been able to save (e.g. automatic deductions or employee matching).
great discussion topic, by the way!
OK, one final idea: make talking about personal finance automatic – and encourage it as part of our national and local discourse. Lobby local school boards to require that personal finance and economics be taught. Lobby your local pastor to incorporate personal finance discussions in the church, perhaps through classes or Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University. If you’re a teacher or professor, no matter what the subject, devote a single class period a year to sharing the basic ideas behind personal finance (like automatic savings, income, output, compound interest, credit cards, and mortgages). In other words, use the more formal channels that our society has established.
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frizzy: you state: “You can’t convert anyone.”
You were converted. Many of my friends have been converted. I’ve been converted. Our society was slowly converted in the wrong direction by the credit card industry.
Don’t let one disappointment convince you that people cannot change. Maybe this post will covert you to the idea that people really can be converted by the power of ideas
.
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Whenever I talked about money with my boyfriend he would always get upset, sometimes defensive and angry. Mostly I was talking about my own choices. As someone who got her first real job out of college just over a year go, I was trying to figure out my own financial goals and the best tools to get me there. When the questions strayed his way he would become angry and defensive. I slowly realized that he avoided anything related to money.
So, one day I sat on him (literally, to keep him from walking off…) and told him that he avoided talking about money and dealing with money issues until he absolutely had to and that approach lead to the worst and least informed financial decisions. Then I asked him to think about how he was feeling and he started to realize what I was talking about. He said he had thought, “why are you ruining a perfectly good evening?” He had a psychological block against money. Now that he realizes it he has been able to confront it and start learning about money and making better financial choices.
This is a major intervention and I wouldn’t recommend this in most cases. I chose this route because I didn’t think he would ever have a financial revelation on his own. He was spending less than he earned and paying down his credit card debt, but he was making poor money decisions that were holding him back.
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I think part of this depends on relationships: partly your relationship with the other person, but also the other person’s relationship to their money.
I’m close to my siblings and have successfully hectored my sister into saving for retirement (she is 4 yrs younger and has a chunk more than I do.. I semi-joke that I’ve got dibs on her couch in our golden years). I’ve not yet been successful with my brother, but he is open about money with me and my sister generally, so I have hopes we’ll get there.
It’s a bit touchier with friends, and again depends a lot on the relationship. I have one friend I’ve been quite open with, and he was very frank about his income & expenses when I was thinking about buying a condo. His disclosure of his struggles (yikes) really helped me realize it would be too much for me to take on.
A number of my friends work with me, so our salary is VERY taboo, but I have talked/blogged openly about my retirement savings, debt repayment, and other topics, without going into exact dollar figures. I figure I can encourage openness by being open, but I would only offer my opinion or advice if it were directly requested.
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@ frizzy:
What makes buying a home now a dumb move? Is it becasue you wouldn’t do it? It is certainly a buyers’ market in most areas, and you said it yourself: your area has seen prices come down and perhaps your friend can get a mortgage that is significantly lower than her current rent. You obviously did your part in giving her the means but it totally her choice to take action with regard to her finances.
@willamettejd:
Society as a whole was converted in the “wrong direction” by credit card companies? They had guns to our heads and made evryone take on more debt then they could possibly handle? I refuse to accept that in any sense. Everyone has their own minds, and can decide (whether intelligently or not) if they want to accept an offer of credit. Maybe you should blame the media for glamourizing the “lifestyle of the rich and famous”, or the parents who neglected to teach their children about fiscal responsibility. So many people make it an issue when then they feel that parents didn’t take the time to discuss drugs, sex, smoking, etc. with their kids–why not count financial accountability in that mix?
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Oh, and by no means did I indend to come off as confrontational or condescending. For a better idea of my view read:
Credit Is Not the Enemy, You Are! and Start teaching your kids early to build a strong financial foundation
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I’ve attempted to educate my extended family for years and have finally given up teaching directly. Advice given that is not asked for is not listened to!! Today I hope my example, my blogging, and my book giving make some sort of impact.
In our home, we are extremely open in discussing money and business with our kids so they have a thorough understanding of what we do and why we do it.
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JD, if this falls too far into the “blue” category, delete it; I promise I won’t be offended.
This post reminded me of a discussion I had with a co-worker when we lived in Boston. She was a born-and-bred New Englander, and had all of the stereotypical Puritanical hangups one might expect.
My parents had been asking me about something related to money and I was relaying the story to my co-worker. She was shocked that I’d have a conversation about money with my parents.
She said, “I’d rather talk with my parents about my favorite sexual positions than to talk with them about money!”
This was, of course, to say “not at all” since she’d die before talking about sex with them.
Anyway … discomfort in talking about money with others … related to you or not … is, imo, partly cultural, partly shame-based (we’re all afraid we’re doing it wrong), and partly because I think most of us are worried about being considered as “less” by those around us because we don’t earn as much as is our fantasy of the fictional “American Dream.”
But maybe that’s just me.
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My sister lost her job this spring and I rushed in to help financially and give unsolicited advice. We are not particularly close. I WAS the preachy older sister but my sister was gracious enough to understand that I meant well.
SHe was laid off from her current job 2 weeks ago I found out from another family member and this time I waited for her to tell me. She called last night and I listened and waited for her to bring up whatever. I live 300 miles away and can’t afford to help financially this time even if she asked. She’s reading a Suze Orman book now and that gives me a little room to mention what I’m reading now for PF books.
I worry about her quite a bit as safety nets she has been able to access before aren’t as readily available. There’s more than a month long delay in getting unemployment benefits due to backlog and state cutbacks for example.
I feel a little guilty/stingy about not offering more knowing this, but she hasn’t asked me for anything. I’m also feeling overwhelmed financially by the prospect of impending layoffs, and not sure I have much to give (emotionally or financially) at the moment.
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I can’t believe this is a post. I also can’t believe some of these comments.
I think Jon Kabat-Zinn sums it up nicely. Just replace “financial talk” for “meditation”:
“Every time you get a strong impulse to talk about meditation and how wonderful it is, or how hard it is, or what it’s doing for you these days, or what it’s not, or you want to convince someone else how wonderful it would be for them, just look at it as more thinking and go meditate some more. The impulse will pass and everybody will be better off — especially you.”
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