Ask the Readers: When Does It Make Sense to Refinance a Mortgage? Print
Friday, 19th December 2008 (by J.D.)This article is about Ask the Readers, House and Home
So much for vacation. I just can’t keep myself away from you guys!
While surfing around this evening, I found a story at USA Today about how mortgages are at a 37-year low. A 30-year fixed-rate mortgage averages about 5.28% right now.
I don’t usually pay much attention to these stories. We refinanced our first house (from a 9% 30-year loan to a 5.75% 15-year loan), but our current mortgage is in a kind of phantom zone: We have a $207,000 balance at 6.25%, with about 25 years remaining. We think our home is worth about $350,000 ($333,500 according to Zillow), even after the wild swings in housing prices over the past few years.
The USA Today article piqued my curiosity, so I jumped over to Bankrate to see what sorts of loans were available. The site gave me three options:
The best option would give us a 5.00% rate and a monthly payment of $1111. (Our current monthly payment — principal and interest only — is $1386.60.) We could conceivably save $275 per month by re-financing.
But then I noticed an ad for a company called AmeriSave. It touted rates as low as 4.25%. A 4.25% 30-year mortgage? My jaw dropped. Literally. Could this be real? I clicked over, filled out the initial form, and took a gander at the rates they offered:
A payment of $1018 per month? That’s $378 less than we’re paying now! Yes, I do see the $6634 in fees and points. Yes, I understand that it will take us 18 months to recover these costs. That’s fine. We still plan to live in this house forever (or until we can afford to relocate to Wells, England).
So, my book proposal is on hold for a day. I’m spending my Friday digging into mortgages. I have several tasks on my agenda:
- I’m going to call AmeriSave to find out more about their rates.
- I’m going to call my current mortgage company to see what sort of rate they can offer.
- I’ll go through the process at MoneyRates.
- I’ve e-mailed my mortgage broker to see what he can do for me. (And he replied almost immediately — at 10pm on a Thursday!)
It seems strange to be devoting a day to this when it hadn’t even been on my radar until an hour ago. But it’s moves like this that can save big bucks in the long run. In All Your Worth, Elizabeth Warren encourages readers to “count the dollars, not the pennies”. When you make smart choices on the big expenses, you have more freedom to spend what you want on the small expenses. By refinancing, I’m trying to count the dollars. (When we refinanced our first house, we were able to keep the same payment, but cut the term from 26 years to 15 years.)
Meanwhile, Jason B. wrote in yesterday with a story about his efforts to refinance in this crazy market:
I’m refinancing my mortgage from 6.375% to something lower. I originally locked in my rate at 5.25% just in case it went higher. But the rate dropped to 5.0%.
I realized my $300 application fee was less than what I’d save in just 9 months of interest at the lower rate, so I called up and they agreed to keep my application open, charge an extra application fee (instead of starting over with all the paperwork) and lower my rate. But now the rate has dropped to 4.875% and could go even lower! I guess I’ll just keep paying the $300 until the rate still drops. But it feels wasteful.
Have you refinanced your home in the past few years? What advice can you offer us? It’s been a decade since Kris and I did this. Have you used Lending Tree? AmeriSave? What can we do to make the smartest decision? And do you have any advice for Jason? What should he do about rates that keep falling?
For research, I dug up an old post where Nickel shares his thoughts about how to decide when to refinance your mortgage.

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December 19th, 2008 at 5:21 am
For Jason: It sounds like you are still on the 6.375% mortgage. If that’s the case you need to take into account the extra interest you are paying now. Whether it’s worth holding on, depends on how big your balance is I guess and how low you think interest rates are likely to go.
For JD: Would you qualify for the mortgage? I wouldn’t get one as lending is very tight in the UK, I think both my house equity and credit score are too low. In normal markets, refinancing is commonplace in the UK and I wouldn’t give it much of a second thought. When I bought my house I anticipated refinancing every 2 to 3 years in any case - I think of it much like switching savings accounts.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:28 am
If you can afford your current payment, I would advise against switching from a 15- to a 30-year mortgage. Calculate what the total interest is you’ll pay over the 15 years and over the 30 years to see how much money you’ll save sticking with what you already have.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:35 am
I refinanced my house 6 months ago when it looks like rates had dropped as far as they could. Now it looks like I should have held out a little longer. I ended up going from a 6.75% to a 5.5% FHA 30 year fixed. Still a good move on my part, but I could’ve saved even more by waiting. Surely this is rock bottom for rates this time.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:43 am
The Fed has been cutting rates to encourage people to borrow for a while now. This was part of the reason we got into the whole credit mess we’re in now.
I don’t think this is a case where trying to fight fire with fire will work.
Since most lenders one way or another pass off the mortgages they originate, they make a lot of their revenue from origination fees. Seems like the Fed is giving banks money to lend to help them increase revenue because the market for mortgage related investments has dropped.
This does however create a good market for those that want to reduce their current mortgage’s interest rate.
But don’t just consider refinancing as the only option. Call up your current lender directly and tell them you’re planning to refinance into a lower rate and ask them what they can do for you. Be persistent and try to talk to different people if necessary. Feel free to mention you don’t mind paying some sort of fee since you would be paying a fee to refinance anyway.
No need to go through a broker and you can save some money too by going direct. If you have a good history with your current lender, they might just want to try and keep you.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:50 am
ReFi when you have the means to do so. If you are in an ARM, make sure you are prepared to ReFi before the teaser rate expires.
The best thing to do is always lock yourself into a 30 year fixed rate, it might be worth it to ReFi if rates drop 200 bips from your current rate. But depending on your balance, even that might not be worth it.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:54 am
What are closing costs, though? And how long will it take you to recoup those costs?
Here’s Clark Howard’s refinancing guide:
http://clarkhoward.com/shownotes/category/4/125/135/394/
December 19th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Great timing on this post. I was just on the phone with a mortgage broker yesterday discussing rates.
We haven’t run any ‘official’ numbers, but based on our conversation we are likely to only save about $120 a month. Our problem is that our home value has dropped too much (Tucson, AZ) and we would have to pay mortgage insurance, something we don’t have to do now.
If I was saving $200 - $300 (and planned to be in the house at least 5 years) I would refinance ASAP.
Personally, I suspect we will see even lower rates soon and I’m going to probably hold off a little and hope we see some improvement in our home value before I make a decision.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:57 am
I ran the numbers:
Current: 150 months, $91K in interest = $308K total.
Aimloan: 136 months, $64K in interest, $2K in fees = $273K
Amerisave, plan 1: 130 months, $52K in interest, $6K in fees = $265K
The difference between each Amerisave plan is about $1K-$1.5K for each plan, adding a month each time.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:08 am
I wonder how much of this is preventative measures in case the govt. steps in and lowers mortgage prices? The rate I’ve heard floated around is your Amerisave rate of 4.25% and it’s a smart move on their part to get that business before everyone offers the same thing. Do you think that’s connected & that we’ll then see lower mortgage prices in the future, or that this is the best option out there?
December 19th, 2008 at 6:14 am
JD,
Check the major credit unions in your area. My credit union has a 30 year fixed (that you would qualify for as an OR resident) for 4.85 (APR which, as you know, includes the closing costs). I’m currently doing a refinance with them and locked my rate at 4.875%. If you want to know the credit union, send me a PM. (The entire application process etc is online)
Hazzard
December 19th, 2008 at 6:20 am
When rates drop, my first call is always to my current lender to see about recasting my loan. To keep business, some lenders will change the terms of your existing mortgage to reflect current rates.
I have found this is well worth the effort, because you file a fraction of the paperwork and pay a fraction of the closing costs. (Last time I think I had to pay for an updated to my appraisal, and some bank processing fees. Around $500-$900, rather than the several thousand it would have cost for closing costs with another lender.)
December 19th, 2008 at 6:25 am
Do look at the rates on a 10-year and 15-year mortgage. It might be better to have a $1300 monthly payment on a 10-year mortgage and pay off the whole thing in ten years (or sooner if you continue to prepay as well). I got 4.50% on a ten-year mortgage. For a rate that low it *definitely* pays to refinance. And there’s nothing like knowing the house will be yours lock, stock and barrel very soon!
December 19th, 2008 at 6:28 am
Just to follow up, Bankrate says that AmeriSave has an APR of 4.5% on 15-year mortgages. I don’t know why they don’t list 10-year mortgages. I found mine through a mortgage broker. Watch out for the lowest rates, though; they tend to tack on fees that effectively make the rate not so good. So keep those in mind when comparing.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Lots of good advice on mortgages here, http://www.mtgprofessor.com/
December 19th, 2008 at 6:41 am
I don’t see any reason not to grab a 30 year loan right now, even if you are on a 15-year “path”. At least where I am locally, there just isn’t much incentive to go shorter because the rates aren’t better. In fact, a few days ago rates were inverted; better for a 30 year loan than a 15.
If you get a better rate on a 30 year loan but continue to make overpayments like you were in a 15 year loan, you’ll still finish the loan in 15 years. There’s nothing magic about the term of a loan, it just determines your payment amount.
And if something happens to you financially when you are overpaying a 30 year loan, you can back off temporarily while you get your life back in order. You don’t have that flexibility with the shorter term loan.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:42 am
I agree to check credit unions. Awhile back we looked and our CU was offering 4.99%. The only reason we didn’t do it was because we’d have to fill out all the paperwork again which we didn’t think was worth it. We are paying so much ahead that it would only save about $2000 over the loan.
I would crunch all the numbers to determine how much you are really saving. If you are just paying on schedule, you can probably save a ton. If you are paying a lot extra, it might not be worth it.
Switching from a 30 to a 15 actually lowered our payment even though we are only 2 years in because we have brought down the balance so much. Consider if you want to make a big principal payment before you refinance to reduce your payment even more.
We did use lending tree. They did give us a very good rate (6.0% in 2006, about 0.5-1% less than any local banks gave us). The only drawback is having to do everything over the phone (which wasn’t that bad except they told us we didn’t need escrow and then all the papers had escrow added so it was a last minute panic). The other thing was we kept getting calls almost a year after the closing about whether we were still looking for a loan. Set up a separate email for spam so that you aren’t bombarded once you do decide.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:44 am
Another thing. Does anyone have an opinion about refinancing from a fixed TO an ARM? You hear so much about people wanting to get out of ARM’s, but the rates are much lower on 5/1 than on a 15 year for example, so if you are going to pay off in less than 5 years doesn’t it make sense? It seems like a good idea to me but the general trend is the opposite so I’m wondering if I’m crazy.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:47 am
I have not been looking at this type of thing at all because my rate is 5.25 since i got it 5 years ago. How much of a % drop should I be thinking about if I am going to refinance.
I just figured it would never be low enough for me to care. Is 4.25% low enough for someone with a 5.25% on a 150k mortgage enough to care?
December 19th, 2008 at 6:55 am
I’m amazed it hasn’t been mentioned in your blog yet, but it might be a good topic to research and blog about. There is a rampant rumour that the government is going to work some magic within the next month to get the interest rates for 30-year new mortgages (ie, no refinances, just sales of new/existing homes) to 4.5%.
It’s been discussed in quite a few articles, like this one:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news/economy/treasury_mortgage_rates/
I’m not really prepared to sell my existing home as we were going to put it up for sale in the Spring of 2010, but if interest rates do drop to 4.5% I feel like I have to do it now as the next home we buy we expect to live in for a *long* time, if not the rest of our lives. It may not work out that way, of course, but it makes sense to approach it that way. I currently pay 6% and thought I had a good rate!
December 19th, 2008 at 6:58 am
A note about Lending Tree and other online quoting companies. Reader Beware. These companies are in the business of gathering and selling your information to anyone who will buy it. Lending Tree sells these leads to as many as 10 other people. Generally your info is sold for up to $50 a pop to the first person who will buy it. So beware about putting your info out on the internet so that companies can “shop” rates for you. If you’re just doing business by phone or internet, you get what you pay for: Joe Shmuck Con Artist working in his pajamas on his couch trying to make a fast back. Buyer Beware!!
December 19th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Question, how soon can someone refinance their mortgage?
We just bought a condo in August with a 7% interest rate (1st time home buyer).
If I could drop the interest rate to say 5%, I would be so thrilled!
December 19th, 2008 at 7:16 am
Chris,
If you got a 7% rate in August, then there had to be a reason why you have such a high rate. Rates in August weren’t that high for those with good credit scores. Unless your median credit score has gone up substantially since then, then I’d be surprised if you would get much savings now.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:19 am
I have the same question Chris@16 has: how soon can one refinance? I was dead grateful for my 6%, but I would be happy to be paying less (or rather, paying more on principal).
December 19th, 2008 at 7:20 am
You’ll have a lower monthly payment, but you will have an extra 5 years of that lower payment - don’t forget about that!
We refinanced several years back and paid some points to have a 5.375% interest rate. I don’t know if it was the best decision, but I preferred to have the lower monthly payment. Since we have no other outstanding debt, we do overpay on our mortgage because we want to be out of it by the time the kids go to college, but in the case of emergency, we don’t HAVE to. To me, this makes me feel more secure. If one of us gets laid off, we can just lower what we pay on our mortgage and our monthly expenses automatically go down.
Whether or not to refinance? I think it depends on your goals…
December 19th, 2008 at 7:23 am
@Chris G - As long as your current loan doesn’t have prepayment penalty, you can refinance at any time.
I’m refinancing today evening. 30 Year Fixed, 5.25%, No Closing cost, No Lenders Fee, No Escrow. Loan amount 216K. I have explained how I got 5.25% and which lender gave me that best (5.125%)
http://www.lifestrikes.com/how-to-shop-for-mortgage-rates-my-experience/
December 19th, 2008 at 7:26 am
Well, from what I understand, the reason at the time is we were 1st time home buyers, didn’t put much money down, and I have a lot but a manageable amount of student loan debt. No late payments or anything like that.
I will check into this to see what we can get for a rate.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:31 am
@Chris G, La BellaDonna - All the above rates 4.25 to 5% is mostly available to home with atleast 20% equity. But, its worth to give it a shot. Don’t run your credit report yet. Shop for rates, then if you feel comfortable, then ask the broker or lender to run your credit report.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:33 am
Here’s the catch. I have a ton of equity on my home. My father-in-law sold me the condo for what was on his mortgage. So we have a $73k mortgage on a condo that is assessed at $120k.
One thing I am interested in is seeing if I can get the PMI off my mortgage too now.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:34 am
When you can refinance may be dictated by your mortgage. Some mortgages have prepayment penalties. The amount of equity you have in your home is another factor. I don’t know if any banks will refi or recast if your mortgage is now upside down (you owe more than your home is currently worth.) Some of the mortgages I’ve looked at are only for those with 20% or more equity, and those with less equity will have to pay a higher rate.
LO, much of the current mortgage mess is because people got ARMs, thinking they could sell before the mortgage reset… then they couldn’t. Now they are stuck with super-high payment they may be unable to afford.
Unless there is truly a compelling reason not to, I always stick with fixed rate mortgages. I really thought I’d be in my first home for just 2-3 years. I ended up living there for 11 years.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:39 am
I have 6.5, but until gov lays out a plan to help underwater mortgage holders. I had 25% equity on my house 1 year ago and now i have about 5-10% and banks do not want to lend.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:46 am
JD: Call me! 888 664-6651
I’m NOT a mortgage broker.
I recommend getting a 30-year fixed if that’s the lowest interest rate. Sometime they’re lower than 15s because the bank assumes they’ll have you longer. Thirties always have a lower payment, so IF you have an emergency, you can cut back on what you pay monthly. Like you’re doing: always pay more.
AND, paying it off in 5-8 years. Easy to do with equity cycling. Check it out here:
http://software.equitycycling.com/presentation
You didn’t buy my book before (Let Your Mortgage Make You Rich) because it wasn’t on Amazon; though, you could have bought it many places online by Googling the title. That taught me a lesson. It’s now on Amazon. And available on Kindle.
I’d like to have a conversation with you about saving on your mortgage, using some very creative techniques — whether you decide to refinance or not.
Equity cycling lets you take advantage of the VELOCITY of money. It trades expensive debt for cheap debt — the amount of debt remains the same.
Yes, please call me: 888 664-6651 (U.S.)
December 19th, 2008 at 7:55 am
We’re set to refinance next Tuesday at a locked rate of 4.65% with Wells Fargo. Our prior rate was 6.0%. We owe $209,000 on a house appraised at $310,000. Like JD and Kris, we’ve been making extra principal payments. Our credit scores are excellent. What we’ve found this last week or two is that if your numbers look good, the mortgage brokers have been very willing to negotiate. By shopping around and asking we we’re able to get the “loan origination” fee chopped by 40%. We had originally locked at 5.25% and then rates dropped again. They told us it would be $1000.00 to relock. We offered to take our business elsewhere and they dropped that to $400. By sending a good faith estimate from a bank with a lower rate but higher fees to Wells Fargo, we were able to get both the lower rate and the lower fees. Rates may drop farther, but for now we’re pretty pleased.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Chris, you can refi whenever you like.
I’ve been through the refinancing process several times. No one has mentioned, but there are a few factors people tend to overlook when considering a refi:
* Banks don’t make loans for free. Even in a “no-cost” refi, you *will* end up paying some closing fees one way or another. Often these will be rolled into the mortgage balance so you don’t have to pony up any cash. This makes it all but invisible, but you have still spent that money!
* What is the payback period? My “no-cost” refis have typically actually cost me about $3000 on the bottom line. With a savings of $100 on my monthly payment, it would take 2.5 years to hit the break-even point on that.
* If you’re (say) five years into a 30-yr mortgage and refi to another 30-yr mortgage, you have to recognize you’ll be paying interest for an additional five years. To accurately compare the monthly costs of before and after, you should pretend the mortgage term is 25 years when you do the calculations.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:57 am
@lara - How are you paying in closing fees, lenders, points…?
December 19th, 2008 at 8:02 am
We’ve been in our house 19 years and have refinanced three times. The first time was from a 30- to a 30-year loan to lower interest 2 points. We were able to eliminate PMI at that point. A few years went by, we did the bi-saver payment thing, and refinanced for a 15 year loan when rates dropped another point or two. Our last refinance was to a 10 year loan at 4.625%. We’ll have the house paid for in another 5-1/2 years (but plan to pay it off even sooner using commission checks and an inheritance). The 10-year rate was the same as the rate for a 15-year loan. If you can afford it, getting your home paid off early is great.
Eliminating our largest monthly expense will free up a lot of money in our budget each month. And after investing $30,500 this year in retirement accounts but losing about $100,000 in net worth thanks to the economy and the hit to our account values, having a 4.625% return by paying off our mortgage is a wise investment to us.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:02 am
I took a look at rates the other day, and I could actually drop to nearly 4% if I switched to a 15-year loan (and save myself about 100K in interest!). Alas, according to zillow I am under water in my house by about 10K, so I won’t be able to re-fi (unless I can somehow show my house is really worth more)
December 19th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Many commenters have made good points. It’s very important to consider costs and how long you intend to remain in a home when refinancing. Also, for the one in seven people who are upside down on their house (according to a different USA Today article), refinancing probably isn’t an option.
Even when I was stupid about other financial decisions, Kris and I have always been diligent about our housing payments. I realize that it doesn’t necessarily make the most financial sense to pay off a mortgage, but for us, it’s what we want to do. Because of this, our loan-to-value is good, etc.
I think the biggest barrier for us will be verifying my income. I’m self-employed now! I’m not sure how this is going to affect our ability to refinance.
Also, I should note that it may just make more sense for us to keep prepaying our mortgage as we have been. I mean, if there are $6,000 in fees to get the mortgage we want, we could just apply that $6,000 to our existing loan!
We’re not sure what we’ll do, but I do intend to research things.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:11 am
I’m in the same boat as Bill M: I’d love to refi for a lower rate, but due to the decline in the home value my loan/value is too high. (If I’m currently making $1500/mo payments secured by my house, why doesn’t the bank think I can make $1350/mo payments secured by the same house?! Until this is addressed, the housing market is unlikely to stabilize.)
December 19th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Does refinancing typically involve a new inspection? I.e., if the house needs some work, should I do that first before trying to refinance? The house got dinged in the inspection when I bought it for having an improperly constructed porch roof, but now it’s actively and conspicuously rotting.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:19 am
I think this calls for a spreadsheet. You should be able to input interest rate, closing costs and your planned mortgage payment (inc overpayments) and work out the total that you would have to pay over the lifetime of the mortgage. I could make one for you if you’d like.
About the self-employed thing, I know that David @ My Two Dollars has struggled with this, and lenders said that he needed to have tax returns to verify his income.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:20 am
@EscapeVelocity (#39)
When we refinanced our first home, it didn’t have an inspection. It had a cursory appraisal just to be sure that it was close to the value that we claimed. This was in 1998. I think that inspections are usually there to protect you when you buy a house so that there are no surprises. If you’ve been in it a while, there’s no need for another. You’re well aware of the house’s faults!
December 19th, 2008 at 8:21 am
A good resource we’ve found is zillow.com. They have a mortgage search application kind of like lending tree, but they never take your info and sell it up the river so to speak. Actually all of the contact we got was through zillow, so unless we respoinded to a quote, the lender never even had our email address. We got at least 10 quotes within a few days.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:24 am
@raghu
I don’t have numbers in front of me. I know our total costs to refinance will be about $4500 which will take about 18 months for us to break even. We didn’t do any points. When we ran a cost/benefit analyses they didn’t seem worth it.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:26 am
If you like your current lender, why not just ask them about refinancing? That’s what we did and we didn’t have closing costs or fees anywhere near $6,000.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:34 am
I have a question for you wizards, this thread has awesome information.
I have an 80/15 loan on the house I bought 2 years ago. The mortgage on the 15 has a rate of 8.25 right now, on about $25k owed.
My question is, does the magic of re-financing work on a smaller loan?
December 19th, 2008 at 8:41 am
@Shannon - I have 2 loans right now, but in few hours, I’m refinancing to make it single loan. Banks don’t offer second loan for home anymore. So, you cannot refinance just the second loan alone. You will have to combine both the loans into one and that has to have 80/20 LTV.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Dr. Jack Guttentag (the mortgage professor) has a list of certified “Upfront Mortgage Brokers” (UMBs).
http://mtgprofessor.com/upfront_mortgage_brokers.htm
“UMBs disclose their fees to customers in advance and in writing, and disclose the wholesale prices (rates and points) passed through from lenders. Customers of UMBs pay the broker’s fee plus wholesale loan prices.”
December 19th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Thanks for the info Raghu! Definitely what I needed to know.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:52 am
I am planning on a refi soon - I am on a 30 yr fixed for 6 7/8 - I cant decide if i want a 10 yr arm at 4.98 or 30 year fixed for 5.1%.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:53 am
I’ve spent the past 2 weeks looking into refinancing. It’s a pain but completely worth it.
JD - As someone who is also self employeed lenders have been asking me for the past 2 years of tax returns. It is an issue if you have less than 2 full years of self-employement. You’ll have to shop around a bit because different lenders have different rule about what they’ll accept.
To evaluate different rates and closing costs I’ve created a spread sheet that looks at the loan balance if I add closing costs to the loan and continue paying the same each month. I look out about 5 years to see where my balances would be and the differences.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:08 am
@Adrienne (#50)
Yeah, I was afraid of that. It may be that we cannot refinance right now because of the blog!
Still, I’m going to try my options…
December 19th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Velocity, I’ve not had to have my home re-inspected when refinancing.
Do be aware however that homeowner’s insurers do drive-by inspections occasionally, and will call you if they see something unsafe. (I was once dinged for having enormous trees with branches hanging over my house.)
December 19th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Clearly there is a “debt is slavery” viewpoint prevalent among the readers of this blog. While I share that sentiment to some extent, I think we should keep the other perspective in mind too.
I just finished a book by Ric Edelman that was pretty good, “The Lies About Money”. If I’m remembering correctly, I believe he listed prepayment of a mortgage as not that smart.
The “other side” has a good point. If you’re refinancing at around 5% for 30 years, at the end of the mortgage you’re going to be paying with dollars that have been made substantially cheaper by inflation. While the big fear at the moment is deflation, I think we can reasonably believe that inflation will return (and perhaps in a big way).
It might seem sensible to consider equity in your house as a kind of investment diversity (like adding bonds to a stock portfolio), something guaranteed in a way that stocks aren’t. In some sense that is correct, but in another sense it isn’t.
In some important sense, diversification is for the “worst of times.” At least one similar argument I find credible says that corporate bonds don’t diversify stocks as well as treasuries do, because in a panic there is a flight to quality and corporate bonds tank at the same time as stocks.
In the worst of times, equity in your house is locked up. It seems like it would be accessible, say through a home equity loan if you needed it. But if you lose your job (presumably temporarily) no bank is going to give you a loan. Just when you need it, your money is out of reach. When times are hard and loans are scarce, that equity is locked up tight. Worst case–you could lose your home that way if it went into forclosure.
I’m not saying to avoid building equity (in fact I have done some of the same). But understand that you are taking on a different kind of risk. Your return is guaranteed to be whatever your loan rate is, but your liquidity is not.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:14 am
I like to follow all of the financial news as much as possible. I heard about the rates going this low. The catch is that you have to have somewhat AMAZING credit. A score in the high 700s.
I’ve refinanced my house twice without any problems. I have a relatively low interest rate, but nowhere near the 4s. My credit score is in the mid 700s so I don’t think I’d qualify for anything low enough.
Basically, you SHOULD APPLY. If you pass the credit check then get the lowest FIXED rate possible and just sit back and enjoy paying off your house early.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Yesterday I locked in a 30yr @ 4.50% (+2.125 points). For me, this is a Refi from an 5/1 ARM currently at 5.25%. When this closes, I will be paying down some of the loan balance as well, resulting in a lower overall loan.
With the lower rate and lower loan amount, this will result in my monthly payments (P+I only) dropping from about $1500 to $800. It will cost me approximately $5500 to Refi (points, fees, and taxes), which will break-even in under 8 months. (5500/(1500-800)) ~= 8mo’s. As long as I don’t sell before this, I should start saving money at this point, using this simplistic model. MtgProfessor has a more complete model to take into account your tax impact and savings (and for me calcs a 1mo break-even):
http://www.mtgprofessor.com/mpcalculators/RefinancingOneMortgage/RefiI.asp
Some strategy tips:
Firstly, the only reason to get a shorter term loan is if the rate is lower. If they are the same (and you could have afforded the shorter loan), you can always pay off a 30yr in 15 and end up paying the same cumulative interest as if you had the 15.
Second, you can always be investing that extra money yourself elsewhere. This goes the same instead of making extra payments per month. If you are smart with investments, making any returns whatsoever is better than letting your lender hold onto it for free. Obviously this assumes you can make some returns elsewhere and that you will be able to access this invested money when its time to pay off the loan.
Third, ARM vs. FRM, this depends on your risk aversion and how long you plan to hold the loan. For me, I would personally lean towards whichever has the lowest rate. Today FRM’s are lower, so there’s no reason to go with an ARM (and with rates as low as they are now, it is unlikely that they will be lower in 5-7 years when your ARM would adjust). 5 years ago, it was reversed, so ARM’s were attractive (and partially why we’re in this problem now). If an ARM is lower, it could be better because most people rarely own a house for the full 30 years. Most people move every 7-10 years. If you believe you match this pattern, you will probably be taking a new loan in that 7-10 year horizon anyway. So you may benefit from the lower rate of a 7-10yr ARM, even if it readjusts for the last year or two before you sell (especially if you can get a low max adjustment per year to hedge you against major market swings). Not to mention that you will probably be making more money and your other investments will (hopefully) have earned you more money during that period, so you may be able to pay down part of the loan making your new loan/refi lower. You’ll need to estimate where you think you will be financially after those 5-7 years and what the break-even cost will be on a refi if it becomes necessary (or beneficial). This is just generalization/speculation, and your market/pattern may be different. This strategy may also be partially what got us in the predicament, but if you don’t over-extend yourself beyond what you can afford, you should be fine.
Other tips:
- Make sure you don’t have any penalties for paying off early (on both the new and old loans)
- On ARM’s, make sure you know the max adjustments (such as 1%/yr up to a total of 5%) to make sure you can afford the max payment if the worst happens.
- Watch out for “balloon” or interest-only loans as well, unless you know what you’re doing, as they are less insulated against market drops (like we have now).
December 19th, 2008 at 9:26 am
I will be interested in hearing if these are teaser rates, available to only those with perfect credit scores, huge equity, perfect income documentation, and substantial net worth.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:37 am
15 vs 30 great question. One I am currently wrestling with. Usually I am not a proponent of debt, but mortgage debt is so favored by our tax system, that it is different.
Also, with the current crisis and Iraq debt, it is incredibly likely that we will have more inflation than usual. So owing money for 30 years may be the greatest financial decision of your life. All those years of paying off a loan on an appreciating asset with cheaper dollars.
Are you disciplined enough to not see the extra $$ as a windfall, and put them to good use as investment. If so, that 30 year mortgage might be great.
For me, my plan is to get rid of mortgage around the time my son goes to college, freeing up about 25K a year to pay for his schooling. I also intend to move out of our expensive hi RE tax home (in the best school district) to something else w/more reasonable taxes. So I’m sticking with my 15. But I’m at 4.875 now and hoping that it drops to 4 or lower. Mortgage rates tend to lag on the way down, especially during periods of credit contraction.
Before I forget, many lenders will do a rate adjustment, (keep the mortgage, and pay a fee to lower the rate, thereby not adding years to your mortgage, call and ask)
December 19th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Chris G: Why are you paying PMI when you have so much equity? Sounds like your lender is defrauding you; you ought to check into that. It’s normally only required if you have less than 20% equity, and with your numbers, you’ve got 40%.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Check out Zillow Mortgage. It does something closer to what Lending Tree promises. Many people don’t realize that Lending Tree just sells your name and info to a few strangers who hope to get your business. Zillow Mortgage lets you anonymously compare different loan providers and only contact the ones you like.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Shannon- I refinanced with Countrywide over 2 years ago on an 80/20 when I saw my 20% loan at about 25 K with Wells Fargo interest had doubled. CW was able to leave my payment the same as the 80 so I went from 26 years to 30 again with the same payment.
At the time I asked CW how often do people do this? They said some refinance every couple of years. I am self employed and now expecting my income to take a slide in the new year. I could really do with a lower payment facing the unknown next year!
December 19th, 2008 at 10:21 am
We have refinanced twice in the last year for a lower interest rate with a mortgage company that charges no closing costs and has fantastic rates. Each time we’ve done 15-year mortgages. Our current rate is 5.75, but right now, they offer 5.125 with the no closing costs or 4.375 with 1.7 points. I think we are going to refinance again in January or perhaps hold on longer if it looks like it will drop lower, to 4%. (You can only do it every six months and this company only operates in VA, SC, and NC.) We are not interested in going to the 30-year mortgage. I realize that if you set it up to pay it off on your own, it really doesn’t have to matter if it’s 30 or 15 years, but it matters to us. With no closing costs, this drop in rate is a no brainer. Of course, the question always is, how low will it go? and you feel like you are rolling the dice …
December 19th, 2008 at 10:26 am
What would you guys do in my situation? We are 10 years into a 30 year mortgage, and have $62500 left to pay. I asked around about a year ago and a representative from my primary bank actually said it wasn’t worth it to refinance considering the fees and the amount left to owe. Is it worth it for me to find one of these amazing mortgage rates or not if you have a lower balance?
How do I figure out if it is “worth it?”
December 19th, 2008 at 10:56 am
This is an excellent post. I’d like to research my own mortgage as well. We recently bought a house and locked in 6%, which isn’t bad at all, but if I could get it down to 4%, then it would probably be worth it. The only thing I don’t like dealing with is the lenders… they can sometimes be pushy and intimidating. :/
December 19th, 2008 at 11:10 am
The correct way to do this is to find a competent and ethical loan broker and have him or her shop rates for you with your credit report and financial info in hand. Once you know the broker’s best deal, call your current lender (who may just be the loan servicer) and tell them you intend to refinance and that the broker has offered you a rate of x with points of y and closing costs of z. Once you get someone competent at your current lender, tell them your credit score, loan to value ratio, and your current income and ask if they can beat the broker’s deal and lock the rate.
As of this morning, Wells Fargo was offering 4.75 fixed on the website. Points and closing costs were not obvious at first glance. Yesterday afternoon, my broker could have locked at 4.675 with one point. Minimum credit was 680 and maximum LTV was 60 percent not to have risk based pricing adjustments. That’s for 30 year fixed sub-$417,000 loans and I am in Northern California.
Pricing changes several times a day. On Tuesday, when rates dipped to their lowest point, pricing was changing every few minutes. A broker can have his finger on the lock button when your desired rate and terms are available.
A good broker will usually save you money, unless your current lender will do a streamlined refi on better terms. I have been using the same one for years and he has consistently beat his competitors and I have a complicated package to underwrite.
Stay away from Lending Tree and similar outfits. Your info is sold and you will receive solicitations at unreal prices from unethical people who will use bait and switch tactics to suck you in.
Good luck!
December 19th, 2008 at 11:29 am
I actually locked in 4.5 (1 point) on Wednesday with Wachovia. I have a 90% LTV and will have to pay PMI and I do have an 800+ credit so not sure if that helped. I am paying 6.5% now so even with PMI I am saving over $200 per month and have only been in the house 1 year and don’t plan on moving.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Very interesting. I’ve left two messages with mortgage brokers in the past two days and haven’t heard back. I’m sure they’re swamped.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Also just on a side note - my plans are to take the money I would spend prepaying the 4.5% mortgage and put into municipal bonds (currently getting about 4% interest) - before anyone bashes me - the muni bonds are tax free and the mortgage interest is tax deductable - so in a 25% bracket/7% state - my mortgage is an effective 3.06% - while I get the 4% in tax free munis - just a thought
December 19th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Feeling smart and feeling stupid.
Of course I’m excited to refinance. I was paying $250/extra per month to reduce principal, and now I plan on switching from a 30 year to 15 year loan. Along with the lower rate, my payment will be about $220 higher. So I’ll actually be paying less per month (or throwing extra at principal). But the much lower rate means that a lot more principal is taken care of each month!
Reading these comments, I’m reminded that I didn’t do all of my due diligence. I didn’t look everywhere I should to get the best deal on closing costs and rates. I’ve already paid $600 between my application fee and the second one I paid to drop my rate an additional 0.25%. Starting over could be painful!
And a small consideration in my case is that my existing loan didn’t have PMI simply because I managed to get good terms despite a 95% LTV. My new loan will have PMI, but in my case it’s just $16/mo and it just takes a phone call when I reach 78% LTV (in about 34 months) to have the PMI removed.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Quite a good article. I read it over and went out looking for refinancing calculators. After test driving a few I thought I’d share my favorite:
http://www.mortgagecalculator.org/calculators/should-i-refinance.php
December 19th, 2008 at 11:58 am
I refinanced to 5% 15 yr at the beginning of Jan- my payment amount is about the same but the amount going to principle is far more. I calculated out the breakeven point using an online calculator:
http://www.dinkytown.net/java/MortgageRefinance.html
This calculator includes a comparison vs. prepayment. For me the change in interest rate saved far more than prepaying my existing mortgage.
A few suggestions: You will almost certainly have to get an appraisal of your home value. I believe I spent $600.
Be prepared for a mountain of paperwork- especially since you are self employed.
You will need cash to fund an escrow account. Even if you already have an escrow account the funds typically won’t be able to be transferred to make the closing date if you use the same lender.
You will need to re-title the property- it seems silly but it’s true. I did save a few hundred by using the same title company. It’s worth looking into.
Be very wary of fees- be sure to get printed good faith estimates from multiple lenders on the say day to do a comparison.
Even with the printed estimates it is hard enough to compare two of them!
If you do refinance be sure to request a copy of all closing documents 48hrs before the closing so you have time to go over it.
Good Luck!
-Rick Francis
December 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Hi,
I’m just wondering why you’re interested in moving to Wells? As an American who has been living in the UK for 2.5 years now I’m always interested to know why Americans would make that choice… and why Wells in particular (besides its gorgeous cathedral, which has some of the best interior architecture I can think of…)?
December 19th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
@ Shirley, #61: Sounds like a good company to at least consider. Can you share the name for those of us who live in one of those states?
December 19th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
IckesTheSane–It’s CapCenter, capcenter.com. They are fantastic to work with. Extremely pleasant and efficient. One note: they do sell your mortgage immediately. That didn’t matter to us. Both times ours went to Wells Fargo. We did contact Wells Fargo last time to see if we could refinance through them, but they couldn’t come close to the CapCenter rate and there would have been closing costs as well.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
I just locked in at 4.875 for 30 years through my credit union yesterday. The fees are $1,700 and it will save me an extra $150 per month, so it will pay off in less than 12 months. (Although it will add another three years to my mortgage.)
December 19th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
i try to refinace with the same bank i have the original loan with.
the biggest problem for me is that since i bought in 2007, my 20% equity has dropped down to 10% which will trigger pmi fee.
this additional fee will effectively cancel out any saving i will have with the lower rate.
very few “experts” out there will tell you this.
it is such a bummer for me.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I called our lender this morning. We can go from a 30 year mortgage at 6.25 to a 25 year mortgage (we are 4 years into the 30) for 4.9%, no points and $3400 in closing costs. 18 mos. to recoup the costs and $80,000 in less interest over the life of the loan.
But and this is the big but, some of what I read recently on this topic seems to point to even lower rates next year.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Partygypsy, there are lots of refi calculators on the web that you can plug your numbers into to figure out whether its worth it to refi. When I ran our numbers (we have not yet decided) it will take us 18 mos. to recoup our costs.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
We’ve refinanced many times. One year we have 9 different mortgages.
There are other ways to approach this, but this is what I do:
- never pay points or anything for the loan (whatever costs should be rolled into the interest rate — not the balance or a separate payment)
- never have a pre-payment penalty
- refinance whenever I can get a 1/8% improvement
(by avoiding any costs, the only thing that matters is the interest rate–this won’t be the lowest interest possible, but is the least risky)
We worked our way from 8.625% (30 year) to 5.25% (20 year) over a 3 or 4 year period when the rates were dropping.
For me the main thing is that I don’t know which way the rates are going to go, so I take what I can get today without locking myself (by paying a lot of points) into a situation that I can’t improve later, if rates improve.
I ended up with a rate that a lot of people got by paying a lot of points because they didn’t know the rates would fall more.
The other thing to keep in mind is that the 15 year or 30 year or whatever time frame is only if you pay the standard payment. If you re-fi with 25 years left and get a 30 year mortgage, I would want to compute my payment as if it were a 25 year mortgage and pay that. If you don’t do this much of the savings that you see on a monthly basis is eaten up by a few extra years of payments. Keep in mind the monthly savings is not the whole picture.
It has been 5 or 6 years since we refinanced. I’ll have to do a bit of research…..
Bryce
December 19th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
@rubin pham (#75)
If you refinance, you can shake the PMI in a couple of years and have a lower payment. If you don’t, you’ll have this payment for 30 years. Just a thought….
December 19th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
bryce thanks for your advice.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
JD have you thought of checking with a credit union? I’ve heard their fees are pretty low in comparison.
We’re in the same boat — trying to decide if a refi is a good choice right now. Great post.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Thanks for doing this post, J.D.! Refinancing has been on my mind (but I didn’t know where to start researching), so your article serves as a great motivator as well as resource.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Here’s another thing to consider. Sometimes people calculate mortgage payments as not as high as they look because you can deduct the interest on your tax return. But when you get toward the end of your payments, the interest you’re paying is so low that it doesn’t pay to itemize and deduct the interest — the standard deduction is worth more money. This is what’s happened to me in the past two years. So the last few years of mortgage payments are at a higher effective rate than the earlier years when the interest was worth deducting.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Can someone explain the “points” idea to me? I understand that less points are better but it just seems like a fancy way to say “extra fee”. I called my loan provider today on a 150,000 left to pay loan and they were able to give me 5.12% with 3 points or something that would mean 1800 dollars plus 3000 other dollars of closing costs.
This sounds like a bad idea but I just can’t wrap my head around the “points” thing.
I am following advice on this thread and calling my credit union as well as my mortgage broker to shop around. Thanks everyone.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Question: I have been pre-paying my mort. on my new house (30yr fixed, 6.25%) and am paid through May 2009. If I try to refinance soon, would I effectively be losing the interest on those months I prepaid?
December 20th, 2008 at 6:51 am
@Marc - I guess you should have applied the additional money you have to principal. You can call the lender and see if they can apply the 3 months extra payments you made to the loan principal amount. So, when you refinance now with lower rates, your loan amount will be less.
December 20th, 2008 at 7:02 am
Our credit union is down to 4.75% for a 30-year fixed loan.
Earlier this year my son & I refinanced the house he and I bought as an investment; we got a 5.3% rate, which we thought was pretty good. However, it’s a 30/15 arrangement, which means we will either have to pay off the principal or refinance in 15 years.
I no longer believe the economy will have recovered enough make it worthwhile selling the house in 15 years. The system clearly is broken, and that means we’re looking at a depression that could last 15 to 20 years, or until we get into a world-wide war that will stimulate production and employment — assuming any of us survive. If housing prices do not recover substantially, we may not be able to refinance in 15 years. Nor, I suspect, will we be able to charge enough in rent to cover much of a mortgage payment. And unless things turn around during Obama’s first term in office, which I highly doubt, the value of the house will not increase enough for us to recover our investment anytime in the near future.
My son feels we should not incur further gouges for the purpose of changing to a 30-year loan at a lower rate. The various dings lenders hit you with quickly add up to several thousand dollars, an amount that is added to principal or to a higher interest rate. The result is a) you owe more, and b) your payments don’t drop as much as you anticipate.
Given the cost and hassle of refinancing, my sense is that it’s best to wait until you can save a full percentage point. But you also have to figure into the decision how long you intend to stay in the house, whether you can (or should) prepay principal with the amount you’d save, and how much it will cost to refinance.
December 20th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Our primary mortgage is a fixed 6.5% @ Wells Fargo (who bought the mortgage from someone else last year). I did some looking yesterday (inspired in part by your post), and found that USAA, where we have almost all our other financial & insurance “stuff”, will give us 4.875% on a 30 year or 4.625% on a 15 year. Closing costs, fees, etc. on the former are under $4K and on the latter are under $5K. Either would reduce our monthly payments. I think we’re going to stick with the 30 year and try to pay it off early. (We have a smaller ARM that I’d like to pay off first.)
December 20th, 2008 at 10:15 am
@FunnyAboutMoney: You believe the current economic situation is going to be around for 15 to 20 years? I hope we can stimulate the economy before then!
I was talking to a few friends recently and we all came to the same conclusion: shop your own lender first. It saves time, paperwork, and money. You can ask for a reduced interest rate and let them know you are shopping for a lender who wants your business.
Also while I understand the appeal of paying off a mortgage, remember that you can reduce your tax deductions drastically in doing so, and as your life situations change, you may own your home, but might have difficulty taking a loan out against it, should a need arise for you to put your hands on some cash (or liquidate).
December 20th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
@LC:
I think there are plenty of times when it’s completely reasonable to choose an ARM. I bought a condo my first year in graduate school, in a program I expected to take another 6 years. I got a 7 year ARM at a 4.15% rate. It’ll rest in 2011, about 1 year after I graduate & move back nearer family.
Yes, there is some risk that I won’t be able to sell then and will have to accept a jump to a new rate, but (a) there are limits on how much the rate can jump at any given time, and (b) it seemed a reasonable gamble to me to risk that situation (given a non-risky loan with reasonable rate limits) in order to get a monthly mortgage payment that was $100 a month cheaper over the 6 years I actually expected to be here. No sense paying $100/mo just to protect myself against an unlikely scenario in the future that probably wouldn’t be so bad anyways - that’s expensive insurance!
Spurred by this article, I was just looking to see if it would be in my best interest to NOW (after already enjoying 5 years of my ultra-cheap payments) to go ahead and refinance to a fixed rate in case I don’t want to sell when I graduate - and given that it would cost about $1500 in closing costs and actually raise our monthly rate by about $20/month, I came to the conclusion that it’s still not worth it. I still doubt I’ll stay put. Making it even more clear that I would definitely make my earlier decision over again.
December 20th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Seems to me like refinancing would be worth it as long as you’re savings more than you’re paying. I did something similar a few months ago by breaking a CD. I payed off my car, and garnered a better interest rate for the remaining balance.
By taking a hit in bank fees I actually ended up making a lot of money.
I’m not totally sure how refinancing works since I’ve never done it. How are fees calculated? Does it vary by institution? Is it a standard fee? Based on a percentage of remaining loan amount?
http://www.pennyseeds.com/?p=15
December 20th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
@pennyseeds
There are lots of costs and they are really complicated and vary widely. Usually you are stuck paying them and you don’t know quite what they’ll be until you close on your loan. However, you can get the mortgage to cover them. There are two ways that this can happen: 1) they add the cost to the amount that you borrowed or 2) they increase your interest rate and pay the costs out of the long term profits from the interest.
After having several mortgages and refinancing many times, I’ve come to realize that you never know when the right time is to get the lowest rate. You also don’t know how much extra to pay to get an even lower rate.
With this in mind, I ask for the second option that I listed. I ask for a no-cost loan. This has a higher interest rate, but all the fees and charges are paid by the mortgage company (sometimes they call it negative points, like -0.5 point loan). With this type of loan, it only cost you some time to do the paperwork to get a new loan. So if interest rates drop, you can get a new loan. Period. No deciding what the time to break even is. Break even is when the new loan starts (or you don’t do it). I’ve refinanced within 3 months of getting a loan this way. You don’t have any upfront investment to worry about losing. I’ve found that by refinancing more often, I can get the nearly the best rate with no upfront costs and the risks of deciding when to refinance are low.
I really don’t understand why there is so much discussion here about closing costs and how long to break even. It takes a significant financial sophistication to compare loans which different cost structures (this is why they have APR, but the closing costs aren’t in the APR). But if you get a no-cost loan everything is in the interest rate. You can easily compare multiple no-cost loans and your current loan.
I guess there is a certain attraction to getting a lower rate (by paying a few thousand up front). An example of the no-cost loan is given in the link that JD refers to at the end of his post. The conclusion there is that if you can save money on every mortgage payment in the future and not pay anything up front, why wouldn’t you do it?
Sorry to babble on, but this can be really easy and people make it complicated. To actually answer your questions: Fees are complicated and differ by institution, by state, but who knows what. No standard fee. You can pay points which are a percentage of the loan amount. These are used to buy a better interest rate sort of pre-pay interest. I tried to present a case that you shouldn’t bother with points (or even closing costs). In some circumstances, you may be able to do better with another approach, but this is the easiest and most straight forward way to improve you situation and know that it is an improvement and that if circumstances change (interest rates go lower), then you can do it again (without worrying that I’ve just paid 3 $3000 to get rate 4.75% and now I could get 4.25%).
December 20th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
One other factor that I didn’t see in the posts above:
In many U.S. states, original home loans are “no recourse”: if you default, the bank takes the house (foreclosure), but can’t chase after you beyond that for anything the house sells for below the loan amount. (Which is why they have suddenly remembered they used to like larger down payments.)
Most often, refinance loans are RECOURSE. If the banks decide to, they can get a deficiency judgement against you and you will have to pay back the difference between the loan amount and what they were able to recoup by selling the house. My company’s policy book states several times how much they dislike having to manage garnishing peoples wages…
Those are the letter of the rules in many states. Check your states laws. In practice, the banks are so royally screwed up right now that they would be unlikely to even be able to go after everyone it made sense for them to chase. Still, know the laws.
December 20th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
If you have Excel and want to calculate your own numbers, look up the function “pv” in Help.
This help entry lists all the interest and principle functions:
IPMT (calculate the interest part of a payment)
PPMT (calculate principal part of a payment)
PMT (calculate the sum of principal and interest payments)
CUMIPMT (calculate the total interest payments over the entire loan period)
and several others.
December 20th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Our current mortgage which we got in 2007 is a 30 year fixed @ 6.5%, and the monthly payment is $2200. I looked into refinancing in order to get a lower rate last night, and the offer from the bank would reduce my mortgage payment by $500 a month! More money for the emergency fund!!
December 22nd, 2008 at 4:47 am
I believe all lenders are required to provide you with a “truth in lending” statement. The fact that Amerisave’s low interest rate is coupled with a huge up-front fee means that you could be better off overall taking a higher rate somewhere else with more reasonable closing costs. The truth-in-lending takes these closing costs and treats them as if they are spread out over the life of the loan, and uses that value to compute a new interest rate that can be fairly used to compare mortgages with different terms to each other.
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:07 am
It’s all about APR (costs) and your breakeven point. If you have a breakeven larger than just a couple of months I think you are making a big mistake refinancing now. The Fed has announced a 600 billion plan to buy mortgage backed securities, to date they have only bought 8 billion. 18 month breakevens which I saw some of you mention are just too long in this market. Stop speculating and throwing your money away. Thats what got us in this mess in the first place. Slow down and wait to see what happens and do a No Cost Refi if you want to refi today!
December 22nd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
JD - you got my wheels turning about this whole refi thing. Unfortuantely, it doesn’t work out for us (save $1k over course of loan). But on the other hand, this has made me appreciate my husband’s financial savviness. We bought our house right before we got married in 2001. I was 19, he was 23. We bought a fixer-upper with 3 acres for 105k, financed only 79k for 15 yr biweekly. We’ve never been able to itemize the interest of the loan, but we are in a position to have the mortgage completely paid off in 3 yrs by using big chunks of our tax return. I’ll be 30, he’ll be 33. No debt what-so-ever. All on only his income of 40k-45k.
I used to complain about being frugal but now we are so close to reaping the benefits!
December 22nd, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Shirley..Can you share what company you work with that is charging no closing costs? I live in NC and I am intriqued!
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Hope–It’s CapCenter, http://www.capcenter.com. I highly recommend them.