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Ramit Sethi from I Will Teach You to Be Rich introduced his new project today. The Scrooge Strategy is an extension of his recent 30-Day Challenge, during which he urged readers to make meaningful changes to their financial lives.
“I hate most frugality tips,” Sethi writes. Instead, he wants to save big:
Many frugality tips focus on things like saving $10 per month for a huge amount of effort. That’s just not worth it. If I’m going to spend time to change my lifestyle — and eliminate the things I’ve been enjoying for years — I want to save thousands, not a few dollars.
Although Sethi and I disagree on the value of frugality — I think it’s an important part of personal finance — we do agree that bigger is better. If spending $1,000 and eighteen months at night classes can net you an $18,000 salary bump (as I suggest in my contribution to The Scrooge Strategy), that will make a bigger difference to your budget than saving a few cents on your cocoa. Both are good, but one offers a bigger payoff.
The Scrooge Strategy is an experiment for Sethi. It’s a paid subscription-based newsletter offering one new tip per week. “These are tactical tips,” Sethi told me in a phone interview last night. “They’re detailed ways for people to really save money.” To prove his point, Sethi forwarded his first four tips to me:
- Focus on two savings projects at once.
- Conduct a “savings interview” to learn how the successful save money. (I love this idea!)
- Be smart when making big-ticket purchases.
- Practice simple strategies to save money in restaurants.
Although I’ve summarized these tips in a sentence apiece, Sethi’s actual articles offer extensive background on each technique. I have to admit, I’m impressed. These tips are exactly as promised: detailed, tactical, and productive. They’ll help readers save money. I may have to sign up for The Scrooge Strategy myself!
This article is about Money Hacks, Tools Tuesday, 13th January 2009 (by J.D. Roth)
January 13th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Frugality is matter of return on investment, not price. Being cheap can be more expensive, very often.
January 13th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
This sounds so good that I have in fact decided to give it a try. If a $10 investment into solid advice is able to provide me with a return of more than $10 then what do I have to lose?
JD I have a question for you. You have over 70,000 subscribers and run the most popular personal finance blog out there. Have you ever considered a paid subscrition to new bloggers where you teach them about blogging? The reason I ask this is because many established bloggers are earning an extra income from blog coaching and blog consulting. I’m extremely positive that new bloggers would be willing to pay you to learn from you.
January 13th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
@Studenomics
What an interesting suggestion. I haven’t actually considered a subscription-based blogging course, but maybe I should. At one time, I was writing a “how to blog” ebook, but I never finished it. It might actually be more appropriate for a series of “posts” to a subscription service. Hmmm…
I’ve considered providing “value-added” products to GRS readers, but for now I’d rather focus on doing the blog and producing the book. These two tasks are enough.
January 13th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
The only problem with the course is that it’s not as scalable as the book. The course if you decided to do coaching/consulting would be more lucrative but not as passive. If you wrote a ebook or set something up a subscribtion service I would be the first one to sign up. Any updates on the production of your book?
January 13th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Most people assume that those doing the “frugal tips” are ignoring the big picture.
In many cases, we’ve already covered the big ticket items and career growth–now we’re out to streamline the rest of our consumer habits, too.
All those little changes helped us pay cash for my husband’s PhD (earned at night) which has nearly tripled his salary.
Continuing to save $10/week on produce is simply icing on the cake.
January 13th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Are you kidding me? The Scrooge Strategy is $8.00 per week. Why would anyone pay money for someone to tell them how to save money? If you want to save $416 per year, DON’T SUBSCRIBE!
J.D.’s rare inline correction: The actual cost is $8 per month, not per week. Ramit’s proposition is that his tips will save you more than that, and if you’re not satisfied you can get your money back. Sounds like a fine deal to me. On the other hand, blogs are free. I think ultimately, this won’t work for some people, but it will for others.
January 13th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Automatic savings has worked for me from the beginning. I don’t really save anything in my checking account (but that’s ok). It makes me prioritize too - do I eat out at a nice place, or go skiing on Saturday? Skiing of course!
AND I manage to save a grand a month. YMMV, which I think is the point
January 13th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
@Maple
Although you had the number wrong, you brought up a good point. This is a paid service, and I’ve modified the post to indicate this.
January 13th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Housing way below your budget and inexpensive reliable cars are the two biggest improvements in personal finance that people can make, or change, right off the bat.
Everything else helps, certainly. If you’re already in good financial shape, it’s more of a hobby and a way of life. If you’re spending way too much on a mortgage and you’re carrying car loans and consumer debt, then all the grocery coupons in the world are not going to do much good.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
We’re you paid to pitch this guy and his website? I wouldn’t pay money for advice like “Be smart when making big-ticket purchases”.
Overall, his advertisement for his strategy felt very greasy and slick to me. It reminded me of those “pay only a percentage of what you owe to the IRS/Credit Card Company” type of things you hear on the radio.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
I dunno, I’ve never been all that impressed with Ramit’s site. He’s clearly very intelligent, but the post quality never even comes close to the quality that you find at other blogs, including GRS. For instance, none of the money saving tips that he posts on his site are particularly novel, and the idea of paying for them (even in greater detail) seems absurd to me. In addition, his attitude is highly pretentious and really bugs me (the whole “from a Stanford graduate” at the end of his site title is one example, but so is his attitude towards people practicing traditional frugality). The whole thing kind of smacks of West Coast aren’t-I-hip-’cause-I-work-in-the valley attitude. I agree with the poster above about not subscribing - there’s equal or better stuff out there (and easily found) for free.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
@elven
Ramit’s advice is much more detailed that “be smart when making big-ticket purchases”. That particular message contains an article equivalent to a GRS post on the subject.
Ramit is one of the oldest and most respected personal finance bloggers around. He’s not a fly-by-night con man. I’ve shared many of his projects at GRS in the past, and even have a section in his upcoming book (as do several other prominent pfbloggers). Ramit is the real deal — he just has a different philosophy than I do. When he asked me to share The Scrooge Strategy, I willingly agreed.
After I agreed, Ramit offered to let me participate in his affiliate program. However, since The Scrooge Strategy seems to be giving people a gitchy feeling (I guarantee that there’s nothing scammy about it!), I’ve dropped the affiliate links.
Bottom line: for some people, this is a great idea. But it may not be a great idea for you.
January 13th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
I agree with poster 11 and I guess a few others as well–in fact today I unsubscribed to Sethi’s blog after this post. Something felt very off.
It has been my opinion lately that everything Sethi sends me (I invited the send–so no scam there) to my mailbox has been some sort of sales pitch–although a very light polite sales pitch. Maybe I am missing the point–I will take another look or perhaps it just isn’t for me. Not everything can or will be.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
I stopped reading his page a while ago - the continual push to earn more didn’t resonate with me (it’s not how I want to focus my energy), and I feel like he’s pretty disdainful about saving money on a daily basis. And now he wants me to pay him for his ideas? Um, I think I know where I can save eight bucks a month
To be fair, I found some of his writing to be thoughtful, and I’m sure JD is giving his honest opinion of the content of the articles, but I don’t see enough value-add to this to cough up the cash.
If someone does subscribe I’d love to hear a review down the road.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
It’s Ramit (the guy behind iwillteachyoutoberich.com and The Scrooge Strategy).
JD, I really appreciate your post and your comments.
I’m also glad others are leaving comments, too. I definitely agree that it’s unusual to have a paid subscription model in the blogosphere, but it’s something I’m trying out and it seems to be working well for the people that sign up. I tested it for 6 weeks with about 100 people and got really excellent results.
With that said, it’s not for everyone. Some people get just as much out of reading blog posts, forums, etc online. Others get a ton of value out of getting high-quality, tactical posts delivered to them with tons of details in an email (i.e., some of my members already saved $1,000+, making the fee totally worth it), so this is a great choice for them.
I tried to make it easy for people to try it out by offering a guarantee/refund, and so far, people tend to cancel very infrequently.
Again, this may or may not be for you. I’ve just decided to add something new to the mix and deliver (what I think is) really high-quality content in a different format.
If you have any questions, please let me know.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
I LOVE the pig with the dollar-sign snout. What a great logo.
January 13th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
I won’t be subscribing either. (Sorry, Ramit). Sadly, I don’t earn enough money for his advice to be useful to me — except the point about earning more money, which I already know. I would recommend his site to some of my upwardly mobile friends though.
I have to say the name of the project bugs me. I wouldn’t aspire to be like a character who was rich in financial terms, but poor in every other sense of the word. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he amass those “riches” by exploiting his workers, refusing to give back to his community and treating others unethically?
January 13th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
JD,
This post is an insult to GRS readers. Has he offered to pay you for the GRS subscriber’s list yet? Sounds like your are more concerned about the $ than we (the readers of GRS) thought.
January 13th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
I’d never do that. J.D. is one of the most stand-up bloggers I know, and nothing I could say would make him sell out his blog — nor would I ever try to. He has repeatedly turned down easy money (and lots of it) to build a long-term community that helps people. I’ve done the same on my blog with a different audience. Neither of us has any intention of going for the quick buck.
January 13th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
@Michael W L
I’m baffled by your comment. How is this an insult to GRS readers? Because I earned $3.20 by pointing to a site of interest?
Ramit has not offered to pay me for my subscriber list, nor would he. Besides, I would never sell it. He asked me to write about his new project, and I did, just as I’ve written about his past projects. Just as I write about many other projects people e-mail me about. The affiliate link was an afterthought, and did not bother me — then or now.
I have no problem with affiliate programs. Judging from the comments last Friday, neither do most of my readers. I’ve used affiliate links since day one at this site, and it has never been an issue. This is not a case of conscience. I’m diligent about not abusing them. I don’t write about an affiliate just for the sake of making money. But if I’m going to link to a site that offers an affiliate program anyhow, I’d be a fool not to include the link.
All the same, as soon as I noticed there was concern over The Scrooge Strategy, I removed the affiliate link. After I had earned a grand total of $3.20.
I’m sorry you feel insulted.
January 13th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Hey thanks for always leading us to great sites and information. I love your site!!!
January 13th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
@ Michael W L,
Don’t say “we”. You speak for no one but yourself.
It looks to me like both JD and Ramit have made it perfectly clear on here “this is not for everyone”. If you have the extra eight bucks a month and want to try it, go for it. If not, to each their own.
I think I will give it a try. With a 60 day money back guarantee, why not?
January 13th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
I do find it a little ironic that his 2nd to last “tip” was “Stop Being a loser and pay money to save money” and shortly thereafter he launches a pay newsletter!
Seriously though, although I prefer JD’s style to Ramit’s, I do read his blog often, and find some of his content useful. We are all able to make our own decisions, so if you don’t think $8 per month is worth it, don’t sign up- There is nothing wrong with Ramit trying out something that may be new with PF blogs-paid subscriptions-which are very common in other parts of the blogosphere.
January 13th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
For Michael W L — chill out please. This is all done in good faith and as a service to better peoples lives.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
There are lots of ways that cashflow positive people save money. Keeping a minimum balance in your checking account and money market, for example. You don’t get a lot of interest, but at least you’re not getting docked with fees.
In the summer when my gas bill is low, I pay one lump sum and throw out the next bunch of bills - no time wasted, and no $ on stamps. Likewise, if you don’t have to pay in installments on insurance and the like, you can save the service charges. These are all small things, the privileges that come with living beneath your means. And of course, save up cash to buy a car - no buying a new one until you can do that!
January 13th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Anne (#16), I concur the logo is a perfect fit. I am a passive reader at GRS and have received some great tips. This is by far the worst “tip” JD has given. It is irony at its’ best that a PF blog recommends a paid subscription. We can find more beneficial informatino for free. I think JD has reached a low with this post. It’s transparent that he has a conflict of interest. Even if he didn’t, he has lost touch with his readers who are struggling to get their finances straighten out specially with this current economy crisis. To suggest advice at a cost is preposterous. JD, you would’ve NEVER advocated for paid subscriptions for PF advice. Whatever made you change your mind in the recent weeks will hurt the credibility of your blog. How can you advocate frugality with paid advice?
January 13th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
@ Michael WL & others-
Although I do not know JD personally, I do know that he probably takes greater care not to try to make money off of his readers than he should, certainly much less so than many others. In fact, he probably should use the affiliate link-if his readers look at the sign up page and want to try it out, why shouldn’t he make a small percentage? This is a full time job + for him, and the quality of his posts show how much time he spends crafting his articles. Him talking about this because some of his readers might be interested is no different than him linking to a blog post or a PF related article, site, or magazine (i.e., “paid subscription”) that he thinks his readers might be interested in.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
All this outrage over the idea of paid content is misplaced. We have no problem when authors ask to be paid for a book (even though we can read for free at a library). The fact that so much on the internet is free should not keep someone from feeling their advice is worth money and seeing if the market will support. We are all free to sign up or not but why on earth all this backlash at someone selling their ideas. It is done in other formats all the time.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Luis wrote: JD, you would’ve NEVER advocated for paid subscriptions for PF advice. Whatever made you change your mind in the recent weeks will hurt the credibility of your blog. How can you advocate frugality with paid advice?
I’ve supported paid financial services in the past. I’ve been a proponent of personal finance magazines, of pay-to-use sites, and more. I think there’s value at to be had from for-fee personal finance advice.
Still, I see your point, Luis.
Kris just came into the room to give me her feedback: “When you write about Leo or Trent or Ramit or your other friends, you lose some of your objectivity. You use a different tone. It’s almost like you’re unintentionally pushing it.”
Hm. Maybe she’s right.
Remember, I’m learning this as I go. And here’s one thing I’ve learned today: when I promote my friends’ work, I need to be more cautious than when I promote the work of a stranger.
On a lighter note, next week is National Thrift Week. Whew. I’m looking forward to sharing some free and frugal tips!
January 13th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
@ Luis,
I’m sorry but your point makes no sense to me.
“It is irony at its best that a PF blog recommends a paid subscription”?
First of all, I don’t see anywhere that JD “recommended” signing up for this. I see him say he likes it. I see him say he may try it. I see him say it’s not for everyone. I do not see him say “you should sign up for this”.
Second of all, if a PF blog “recommending” a paid subscription is irony at its best, what exactly is a PF book that you have to pay for? What about Money Magazine, The Wallstreet Journal, The Economist or any other PF related magazine/newspaper?
Ramit and JD certainly do not need my or anyones else defense here, the backlash over a simple article just blows my mind.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
You have to be really short sighted if you can not see how paying $8 a month for tips that have the potential to save you exponentially more is not a worthwhile investment. If it’s not, cancel in 60 days and get your money back.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
@JD
Do you push your friends in the PF community more because they are your friends or because you know they have a history of putting out outstanding advice that could be of great interest and benefit to your readers and you know their intentions are in the right place?
I would guess the ladder. You shouldn’t have to apologize for publishing a post because it does not apply to certain readers (Any post on paying for something on a site that pushes frugality will be controversial). You push growing your own garden much harder than you have ever pushed Ramit on us and I have zero interest in starting one. Would you stop writing about that?
Of course not. And I won’t expect you to because although it adds zero value for me, it adds great value to many readers.
You have the success you do from writing quality posts that appeal to and benefit most of your audience. Trust the judgment that has gotten you to this point and keep up the great work.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
I agree with Studenomics. A blog coaching website and/or book is a great way to share your knowledge with others. I would probably pay for that kind of newsletter.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
JD-
On a side note, I do not want to sound ungrateful. You have sparked my interest in learning about PF. You helped me start a ROTH IRA with the excellent information you presented. Overall, 90% of your posts were valuable to me. In this context, this 1 post that seems to me like it is no longer in the interest of your readers, can not make me generalize your intentions.
January 13th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
I understand that you can get value out of an $8/month service, however how many of these tips do you think you wouldn’t find elsewhere on some other sites, books, etc?
January 13th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
I have been reading Ramit’s blogs lately and he seems to have some good ideas, Ofcourse who wouldn’t want to make some money giving valuable tips. I have signed up for the scrooge strategy. Lets see if it pay off.
January 14th, 2009 at 2:27 am
Hmmm… count me in with the sceptical crowd. While Ramit sometimes has some interesting advice, I do find his writing style rather arrogant and off-putting, a salesman telling you something rather than GRS and The Simple Dollar’s “guy in a bar” chatty, friendly approach (IMHO, anyway).
I would still be tempted, but I frankly found the 30 day challenge to be a waste of time, alternating between the painfully obvious (who, exactly, is trying to save money but didn’t think to buy generic or pack a lunch?) and simply not applicable to me. The thought of paying for what could be similarly useless advice (based on the subjects mentioned by J.D. above) doesn’t appeal to me. The Scrooge Strategy’s website is the final thing that puts me off - it’ looks like one of those horrible sites selling you an eBook on how to win the lottery in 30 days or lose weight while eating cake or something similarly ridiculous.
No offence intended to either Ramit or J.D. here, by the way. You’re both intelligent and focussed guys with a lot to say. But, I do find GRS to be so much more useful, and this really isn’t changing my mind.
January 14th, 2009 at 3:07 am
I agree with Kris. I’m sure it’s unintentional that you adopt a different tone, and it’s probably because you think it’s a good idea, and you want your friend to succeed. We’re all naturally predisposed to looking more at the good side of our friends and their work - especially if they are going to read what we have to say about them.
I think it means that people are taking the wrong way what you’re saying. You’ve suggested/promoted similar-ish ideas before from people unconnected to you and whilst lots of people have though the idea not worth the money, they haven’t assumed that you’re doing it to be in for the money.
To me, it feels as if it’s slightly *cool blogger clique*-y and that makes it feel less objective (even though I’m sure that you are giving your honest opinion).
January 14th, 2009 at 3:58 am
I’ll point out that JD’s zen mantra is “Do what works for you” (paraphrased). Since there are over 70K RSS subscribers, and 35K unique visitors to this site, I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that not everyone visiting this PF site is at the same stage of good PF hygiene. Thus, Ramit’s idea may fill a niche for a subset of readers. For some it may work better than JD’s own posting style. For others it wouldn’t provide much benefit.
What JD did was introduce a new program. I remember my article on Motley Fool and their CAPS service taking some heat many, many moons ago. No regrets.
Do what works for you guys.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:09 am
I don’t object to paying for content, nor do I think it’s inappropriate for J.D. to write about it. Why shouldn’t writers promote each other’s work if they think it’s worthwhile?
For those of you saying “suck it up and sign up”, I should add that this is a more expensive proposition for people like me who aren’t in the U.S. That $8 is going to go up and down depending on the value of the U.S. dollar, plus we get dinged from our credit card companies for the currency exchange. If I’m going to pay $10-12 a month for something, it had better be good. Ramit’s a great marketer, but his content isn’t “there” yet for me.
For that money, I could purchase a few PF books or several subscriptions to better quality PF magazines instead. (Then I might have a hope of finding something that isn’t exclusively US).
January 14th, 2009 at 5:38 am
@ Adrienne: I don’t think it’s the idea of paid material that has people upset. I think it’s a combination of a two things: (i) paying for material that doesn’t seem all that inspired or differentiated (after all, when you buy a book, you expect to get something from it that you couldn’t get anywhere else) from (ii) a blogger who comes across as arrogant and pretentious (see #17, 23, 36).
@ Centsability to Wealth: I think the very fact that JD posts it, and says that he wants to try it himself, is an implied recommendation/endorsement. It doesn’t have to look like the last 10 seconds of a 5 Hour Energy commercial to seem like an endorsement of some sort.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:39 am
Paying for quality financial advice is an investment. But the key word is *quality*. I like Ramit and I like his blog, however his 30-day challenge may have offered me 3-4?? usable tips..at best. Having seen that, I can’t see paying for the same advice that can’t be applied to my situation. At the same time, giving Ramit the benefit of the doubt, he’s not just targeting me and my situation either. I praise his efforts to better the community.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:41 am
JD, I think the reason you’re experiencing some unexpected backlash might be related to another recent post of yours regarding “selling out” and writing advertorials. You professed to be against the idea, and that appeared to be the end of it, yet here we have a post with a suspiciously “infomercial-esque” feel to it. Of course, I’m a long-time reader and I don’t believe for a second that this is any kind of paid placement, I’m just pointing out that this could be a reason for the cynicism coming from some of the other readers.
On the other hand, you wrote a glowing review about Ramit’s newsletter, yet here’s the million-dollar question: Have *you* subscribed? If not, why not? Couldn’t that be seen as somewhat hypocritical?
And finally, since people really value your advice (and for good reason), do you really, truly believe that someone seeking to improve their financial status would be better off sending $96/year for a short, monthly newsletter from one guy, as opposed to spending that same money on, say, 3 subscriptions to Money magazine, which has far more content and is sourced by dozens of professionals instead of a lone blogger?
January 14th, 2009 at 6:09 am
Why pay $8/month when there are so many places to get the same information for free? Think of how many whole finance books you can buy in exchange for 12 tips (if you don’t go to the library).
January 14th, 2009 at 6:09 am
JD,
I’m Sorry for the negative tone of my earlier post. I have been a big fan of your site for a long time. One of the reasons why I enjoy your site so much is because I can relate to you and your financial struggles/achievements. You are a tremendous advocate for the average person’s financial well-being. You’ve always been great about throwing different products (some that cost $, some that don’t) out there, giving us your honest perspective and letting us make our own decisions. I’ve never felt like you were trying to sway me one way or another. Thank you for disclosing great products from other sites that I may have never seen without visiting your site.
@ Ramit, I wish you much success with your frugality tips.
@ Centsability to Wealth, I am sorry that I tried to speak for the GRS masses. My post was my view only, no one else’s.
@ Kevin (post 43) - excellent post
JD, Keep up the great website.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:28 am
most frugal tips are pretty much common knowledge. if you think about money, you should be able to. budget, set goals, think about purchases, emergency fund, etc. etc.
when ramit ran that 30-day whatever challenge, i also thought the emails i got when i signed up (to the 30-day…) were weird… and spam-ish in nature. i didn’t find value in any of the 30 tips he posted then, that i recall, so i definitely won’t be signing up for this.
personal finance (besides investing…) is 98% common sense.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:08 am
As a long time reader of this blog I want to warn readers to watch out, this seems a little fishy…look what I found on Ramit’s site.
Contributors include millionaires, famous personal-finance bloggers, and Harvard MBAs
I’ve put together a dazzling panel of contributors. I’ll continue sending my own personal-finance tips, but by signing up, you’ll also receive tips from J.D. Roth (who blogs at Get Rich Slowly),
It seems that there is a conflict of interest in this post. JD is pushing the Scrooge strategy since he will be a contributor. I highly doubt that will be done for free with all the money Ramit expects to earn on from this venture.
This is the line that sends warning bells off for me…JD says…
“I may have to sign up for The Scrooge Strategy myself!”
January 14th, 2009 at 7:16 am
@Watchout
I am not pushing The Scrooge Strategy because I’ll be a contributor. Ramit asked for one article, which I provided in November. He has not asked for more. No money changed hands.
If there is a conflict of interest in this post, it is, as I mentioned earlier, because it’s a friend’s project. You’re right that the last line is over the top, and I regret it. It’s more from being a lazy writer than anything else. (”This post doesn’t end well…how can I punch it up?”) It’s a mistake. I may sign up for The Scrooge Strategy, but as my wife pointed out before, it comes across like I’m shilling for Ramit.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Why is everyone upset that Ramit is trying to make some money through advice? That’s what this business is all about. He’s trying a different model for revenue, but with ad moneys on the decline, there’s nothing wrong with asking for subscriptions. JD is totally within his bounds to tell us about a new resource; if it’a a helpful service, it’s actually his JOB to pass along the tip.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:51 am
I think it comes off a bit pitchy, but whatever. If you like reading this sort of thing then go for it. If on the fence, save some cash and get a subscription to Money magazine for 10 bucks a year.
Really most of these blogs have some good general advice but aren’t going to make you rich. They are fun to read, however, and help to remind us all of a general philosophy we should maintain in order to become wealthy in time. Really if the only post every day was try to save money, invest as much as you can and try to earn more they would be worth the time. The occasional post on making jam, packing a lunch or where you can make an extra quarter of a percent on a money market are filler. Edit - I do enjoy the book reviews.
Just get an rss feed set up and read all of these during your morning coffee and enjoy.
Go bears!
January 14th, 2009 at 8:07 am
I think the problem here is that Ramit is known to be insultingly anti-frugality (”nutty frugal person” “nutty cheap people” “those people are crazy” etc., etc.), yet suddenly a lightbulb has gone off over his head that he can make money on frugality “tips” and actually be a spokesperson for frugality, Ramit style.
Sigh.
Peace and power to you, Ramit.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:49 am
I don’t see any conflict here on J.D.’s part. Put another way: I’m also interested in sewing. There are a LOT of sewing blogs out in the blogosphere - possibly more than pf blogs. Most of them are free. Some require you to become a member in order to access the information. At least two require you to become a PAYING member if you want access to more in-depth information. For one blog, I’m not (currently) interested enough in what’s on offer to spend my limited money there; the other blog I consider so valuable that I encourage every serious stitcher I know to at least take a look, and, preferably, buy the author’s book. She offers information available nowhere else in the blogosphere. (And for anyone who’s making money or interested in making money in any form of sewing, the site is fashion-incubator.com, a MUST for professionals.) There are a couple of sewing blogs I go to that also offer some great advice, which happen to be free. If someone on the free blog recommends that readers subscribe to fashion-incubator.com, how is that a conflict of interest?
J.D.’s recommendations are just that, recommendations. Nobody’s forcing you to subscribe if you don’t want to. Nobody’s forcing you to buy books he recommends, either. Heck, you’re not even obliged to follow the advice he gives HERE. It’s OK for him to say he MAY sign up for Ramit’s subscription. Maybe he will. Maybe he won’t.
What I will say sticks a bit in my craw is Ramit’s line: “I’ll continue sending my own personal-finance tips, but by signing up, you’ll also receive tips from J.D. Roth (who blogs at Get Rich Slowly)” (emphasis added). If that’s a direct quote, and if J.D. isn’t planning on a repeat appearance/additional tips on Ramit’s site, then it certainly appears as if Ramit is indulging in some very misleading wordplay. J.D. says he’s contributed one article, and there currently aren’t plans for him to contribute another. While the text is absolutely correct - if J.D.’s submitted an article, then subscribers certainly WILL receive tips from J.D. (if he’s included them in his article, and why wouldn’t he?) - the subtext to that statement is that J.D. will be a regular contributor to Ramit’s newsletter. No, it doesn’t actually state that; but it is phrased in such a manner that the casual reader might certainly infer that J.D. would be a regular contributor, since it is used as a selling point for purposes of encouraging subscribers. I think it’s … slippery advertising, at best, and it makes me LESS, rather than more, likely to subscribe. I like J.D.’s writing, so I’ll come HERE, to HIS blog, and I’ll buy HIS book.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:11 am
I’m surprised by all the backlash. This is probably the only strongly negative feedback I’ve seen here.
I don’t have a problem with anything J.D. did. So what if he got paid for the links? If he was going to link anyway, why shouldn’t he get paid?
Also, I don’t see why it matters that Ramit is a friend. I don’t think that J.D. would participate in or promote something unless it was something he believed in. I would just hope that he read some of the full tips first.
As for the Scrooge Tips, I get a bit of a bad feeling about it too, but I’m going to give it a shot. It comes with a 60-day cash back guarentee. If it’s as good as Ramit promises, one of those tips should pay for a year’s subscription. If not, I’ll just cancel and get my money back. No harm done.
I think the bad feeling comes from the marketing vibe I get from it. It goes back to J.D.s recent post how some bloggers take the writing path, others take the marketing path. I like the writing blogs better myself, so I’m a bit leery of paying for the tips.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:13 am
@ J.D. -
I agree with some of the posters above that a weekly newsletter aimed at bloggers (especially newer bloggers) is a great idea. I’d gladly pay a few bucks (maybe like $1-$4) a month for that.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:40 am
The last paragraph makes it seem like you were ready to promote Ramit’s product before you even reviewed it thoroughly,to see if it would even be good for your or your readers. I guess you just have to imagine if it were a stranger instead who had approached you about publicizing this concept; would you have agreed to post about it? If so, then no need to defend yourself.
As far as the affiliate links, don’t worry about it, you didn’t do anything wrong. How many of us have earned $25 for referring someone to ING? I think the difference though is that you actually really like ING and they’re not your friend. Whereas people might see the motivation to post this article had more to do with your friendship with Ramit rather than raving about or critiquing a great product, even if that’s not true.
Another factor too is Ramit’s style. He has his fan base, but I don’t think it’s as wide as yours. His tone and topics can put off a lot of people, so there’s already that baggage right there.
As for me, I’m not going to sign up. I read through Ramit’s 30 day tips and it didn’t work for me. It seems to work for his readers though, but I found them to be repetitive of other frugal tips that he had previously looked down upon. For instance, brown bagging. He claims you can save $60, or $15 a week by brown bagging, yet he knocks down people who clip coupons. I’m sure there are many people who save more than $15 a week by clipping coupons, and I would argue to say that that is even less time consuming that planning and packing your lunches.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Here is one of my favorite GRS posts:
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/10/17/recurring-monthly-costs-which-are-worth-it-which-are-not/
January 14th, 2009 at 10:20 am
I don’t see why everyone is so upset. J.D. reviews books all the time, and those aren’t free, either.
Personally, I won’t be signing up for Ramit’s newsletter, but not because I think it’s too expensive, or that the tips won’t be very good, or because I don’t like the way J.D. posted about it. I’m sure it’ll be a decent newsletter. The reason I won’t sign up for it is the same reason I don’t buy personal finance books — I don’t feel like I lack information about how to save money. The information required to save money is (mostly) short and simple, and I’ve read it all before. Since I’ve learned the basics, I continue to visit PF sites and participate in the discussions to keep myself focused on the topic. I don’t need more information, I just need to keep the topic in the front of my mind, and a daily reminder (like reading GRS) does that for me.
I don’t see how this post is really much different from a book review, and I don’t see how mentioning a paid service is necessarily a bad thing.
Personally, I like paid web services. It keeps the quality of the content high. People will pay $10 to join a community and contribute to discussions, but they generally wont pay their $10 so that they can shout insulting names at people and post “first!” after every article. This doesn’t happen at GRS, because J.D. moderates all the comments, but it does all over the rest of the internet.
A lot of people still don’t seem to realize that most of the time, you get what you pay for.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Love the Scrooge Strategy. Never heard it called that before, but I recommend the same strategy to my clients all the time! When you are looking to save some money, I find it most helpful to list your expenses from the largest to the smallest. It really helps focus your energy on where you can make an impact. Too many people spend their time trying to shave a few dollars from the smaller items (which can be easy and worthwhile), but cutting one of your bigger expenses by just 5% could put a lot more savings into your pocket than things like packing your lunch twice per week.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
The Scrooge Strategy sounds like an interesting one that I think could help a lot of people.
I’m well known for trying desperately to save the pennies thinking, as the saying goes, that the pounds will look after themselves.
I am however beginning to see that this isn’t necessarily the best tactic and investing wisely can pay off a whole lot more in the long run.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Some people really need to relax. Do you think these PF bloggers should do it all for free? So, people can basically reap the rewards of all their hard work, yet they aren’t allowed to make a dime off of it? As JD said before, this is not a fly-by-night salesman. Ramit’s whole blog speaks of the quality of his work. If you like his blog a lot, then the pay for advice may be for you. If you don’t like it, or don’t see the value, it’s not for you. Move along! If you’ve ever bought pf books or pf magazines, how is this service he’s offering much different?
January 14th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
JD, I have always liked your posts. I also read Ramit’s blog. I will teach you to be rich and Get Rich Slowly are just what they are called. JD your tips are about life style changes over a longer time to gain wealth. While Ramit chooses the other side of the coin by talking about faster ways to make money.
People will have different opinions. While I don’t think I will be signing up for the tips, I still like to know what is out there. Maybe I can sign up for the tips for a friend or family member that doesn’t already read the blogs. Knowledge is power and money is power. Keep up the good work by including everything.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
I will add, $96 does seem like a lot. So maybe a lot of the negative is coming from the price. Why pay $96 for a short newsletter when that same $96 can get you 3-4 personal finance magazines and a couple good books? If that’s the issue, people should say so. But I stand by what I said before, that I don’t believe there’s anything sneaky going on here.
January 14th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Hmmm…I’m a techie type from So. Cal, and I do find Ramit’s style a bit off-putting. He insists he won’t offer “stupid frugality tips”, but then starts off with “brown bag your lunch”, which is generally in the top 5 of frugality tips.
I don’t see a problem, however, with PF sites recommending a paid service. It’s not different than buying a book. My brother sucks at saving money, I’d certainly think he could learn a lot by buying a book.
I don’t see the service as any different than weight loss, for example. Sure, I can get calorie counters, recipes, workouts, etc. for “free” on the web (minus the cost of a computer and internet service, or the time to travel to the public library during their open hours). But instead, I maintain my weight much more easily by paying for the Weight Watchers online service. It works better for me.
It can be hard to be objective when you are talking about a friend. I have a friend who is a dietitian, and I have in the past paid for her professional advice. She has a very high quality program/service that she provides, so it’s easy to sound like a salesperson when I talk about her.
January 14th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
I agree with #51. I read a few of his tips during the I can help you save $1000 mo. but then none of them seemed anything revolutionary, so I quit going over there.
I do like the tone that JD puts in his articles. I didn’t like Ramit’s style/attitude so, I’ve not gone back but a couple of times since the original visit. Anyone who comes across as “I know it all” turns me off. That’s why so many of us like JD…he’s very open about “I’m learning” and not “I’ve arrived.” It’s refreshing. (Others may prefer the teacher/student relationship in a blog where the teacher exudes self-confidence.)
This attitude against penny pinching that was Ramit’s benchmark is why this “idea” of frugality tips is rather mind boggling.
Selling your ideas on a blog is fine. Why not if people will buy it? $8/mo is high, though (to me).
I’d prefer to invest in some books that have been reviewed here like Your Money or Your Life, etc. (I already have all the Tightwad Gazette books which are VERY, very full of ideas and a few “attitude” articles–the kind JD shines in!)
January 14th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Getrichslowly is so great because it is free. Transforming it into a pay for use service (even only for some services) is a very bad idea… I would be the first to drop out.
January 14th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
In the past 2 days I’ve received offers in the mail stating that I can (1) receive 2 years of Smart Money for $20 and (2) one year of Fortune for $10. That’s still $66 cheaper than Ramit’s newsletter. Sounds like someone is jumping on the Frugality bandwagon. That said, I don’t see a problem with charging for the newsletter. But my advice would be to save $66 and get 2 magazines instead.
January 14th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
I think there is “nothing new under the sun” for frugality tips and financial advice. The advice is available on-line, at the library, etc. Sadly, many people feel that if they pay for something, it’s worth more than if it is free. So a colleague of mine is paying big fees to a planner who tells her to put a certain amount of money in an envelope for each budget category. If I told her the same, she wouldn’t do it.
Amy D. of Tightwad Gazette fame turned down having Tightwad calendars and mugs because she felt that would not be frugal for the buyers. She also said that if you wanted her book for free to take it out of the library!
January 14th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
I don’t pay for subscriptions (well, except for Netflix), so I won’t be signing up for the newsletter. I enjoyed Ramit’s 30 day challenge, but in all honesty, everything he suggested I’ve already been doing. I don’t see how a paid newsletter would be much different. I enjoyed participating in the discussions more than the content.
I do echo the others who find this article a bit odd to be recommending a subscription newsletter. Normally, JD, wouldn’t you be recommending against subscription services? You may do book reviews, but don’t you also recommend checking them out from the library?
January 14th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
I don’t know how much money I have saved from ordering water in a restaurant and not a soda or beer.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Honestly there are a million money saving tips online for free. Why would someone want to pay for a subscription? It doesn’t make sense.
Want to be successful? Find any combination of those million free tips that will allow you to save 20-40% of your income. Once you have those, be disciplined. That’s all you need to do.
I think if you are going to pay for this subscription you would have to consider comments like this from Ramit’s site: “I certainly won’t tell you to cut your rent or move to a cheaper place, because NOBODY WILL DO IT! Does anyone ever follow those stupid tips? No, but it sure makes other personal-finance authors feel good about themselves for coming up with a suggestion that theoretically, maybe, somehow could save money for the moron who would do it. Not here.”
Moving to a cheaper place is a stupid tip? You are moron if you do it? Sorry I have to disagree with you there. I think you would be pretty wise.
What’s entertaining is that Ramit said in his 30 day challenge, “…this series will not include retarded suggestions like Start a garden…”
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/01/11/7-tips-for-starting-your-own-vegetable-garden/
Did he just call JD retarded?
This is not an effort to hate on anyone but if you call people’s tips stupid and retarded and you call people morons you are asking to be called out.
January 15th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
I am new to checking blogs and have recently started to read Get Rich Slowly. I’m about 2 months in. While reading this Blog I began reading Ramit’s 30 day challenge. It was advertised as one tip per day for 30 days. That wasn’t the case. There would be days without tips until finally I gave up on him. Ramit had an opportunity to keep my attention and failed. Having said that, I would not pay any money for advice he has to offer with the track record he has shown me.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
J.D. I think you put it best with your wife’s comments - your tone lost objectivity to the extent that I had to work harder to sift through the information and make my own conclusions - intuition told me I couldn’t trust it as easily as I might from other recommendations you make. The affiliate marketing isn’t the problem - it’s the feau-review-actually-endorsement element that’s bothering people.
I agree with several commenters - my first thought when I went to the site was how much I love the pig logo - haha.
That being said I’ve been all over iwillteachyoutoberich.com and loving it. I’m not convinced that it would be worth my $8/month, but there’s a lot of great, valuable, and free content on here to appreciate and I’m glad I read your original posting for it.
I would contend that he is pretty arrogant with his message. And it’s really hard to combine his contempt for traditional thrift tips with his paid thrift blog… it’s almost like he’s saying “thrift ideas are dumb unless they’re MY ideas”
Sorry your post has banged you up so much today… *HUG*
January 16th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Count me as someone who finally had enough with Ramit’s site. I think he offered great advice, but lately the site is more about Ramit than about his readers. He’s been self-promoting a small scholarship he’s starting. He’s now doing this for-charge service. If I wanted incessant adertising, I’d go to a website like Fool.com, not to a blog.
I admire his entrepreuerial drive and ambition, but at a certain point, can’t he use the blog to give back to the world (for free). He gets speaking engagements, has a book, advertising, etc. At a certain point the blog started to feel kind of icky.
And, I should mention, the blog’s attitude seems to be self-serving. Instead of saying, here are some ideas/ ways that YOU, educated reader can figure out how to save money, it seems to say — YOU, dear reader, need ME. I don’t know. I’m disappointed because I did like the good stuff in the past.
January 16th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
^^^Wowsa, what do all the complainers here give to the world for free? I think his tips newsletter is not for me, but let him try to get his piece of the pie. The guy has given you plenty for free and so does J.D.. As far as books go, you don’t get a load of cash unless you sell a load of books and even then it can be sketchy. A $10,000 dollar advance is not that much if it is all you ever get. Speaking engagements sometimes pay, but sometimes you don’t even get your expenses covered.
Dogging out J.D., who as far as I can tell busts his tail to keep this blog going is so wrong. If you don’t like it fine, but don’t get all up in his kool-aid. A total lack of comments would have sent him a message about how his readers responded to this post.
I will give you a little something for free - how I save over $1200.00 dollars a year on my water bill. I now pay close to the absolute minimum the bill can be. It was originally costing me almost 400 bucks a quarter - it is very expensive where I live.
1. Get some buckets from the dollar store
2. Start taking them into the shower with you - you should be able to collect a bucket per quick shower
3. Collect the water that comes out of your washing machine in buckets before it goes down the drain
4. Use the water collected to flush your toilets
5. Save mad cash
Here is another one good for buying new furniture
1. Go to a showroom and find the piece you like, make a mental note of the maker and model.
2. Find one of the big furniture companies in North Carolina and get prices from them. You can find them on the web. If someone tells you “here is a price but you have to buy it right now”, look for another furniture company, because they don’t want you to find it cheaper (and you will) I would tell you who I like, but I don’t want to give them a free commercial here.
3. Save big bucks - 1000’s if you are buying nice stuff.
Here is another - You can find copycat recipes for free on the web for almost any food you like to eat out in a restaurant. Make it at home.
BTW - I think Ramit’s dismissal of the little ways to save is wrong. Every little bit counts.
January 16th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Here is a special tip for J.D. and his cats-
A girl I know in a vet office told me to buy the larger dose of frontline for dogs and then use it on 2 cats - much cheaper that way.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:51 pm
@Steve Austin - Unless the girl whom you know in the vet office is a vet herself, I’d want confirmation from a vet that the formulation was identical and that, in fact, two cats (what weight?) could split the larger dose meant for a dog. Medication for dogs and cats is not, by and large, interchangeable, and you don’t want to inadvertently poison your pets while trying to save a little money.
May 3rd, 2009 at 8:11 am
All of this saving stuff is right. Every penny dooes count, so do pay attention to the little things.
It is also not cheap, but more expensive, to buy something for a cheap price that you want to last for a long time, such as a washer or refrigerator. Back in 2000, I bought and paid cash for a washing machine. It was the better one, and I still have it. It’s been worked on once and is still going strong.