On Tuesday, I spoke to students at Western Oregon University about the transition from college to the “real world”. I attended this same event last year, so knew going in that it would be interesting to hear what the other presenters had to say. I spoke about personal finance; they spoke about finding a job and finding meaning. I took notes. Here’s the career advice offered by the six speakers:
Ron Theisen
The first speaker of the evening was Ron Theisen, a former teacher and entrepreneur who is now retired. (Well, sort of retired. He spends his time volunteering for various organizations.) Ron encouraged students to remember that their first career is not etched in stone. “You have time to find work that makes you happy,” he said. “If you don’t like what you’re doing in life, you shouldn’t be doing it.”
Lisa Anderson-Ogilvie
Next we heard from Lisa Anderson-Ogilvie, who has had experience not only applying for jobs, but fielding applicants. She noted four things that help to create job opportunities:
- Internships. Either with or without pay, an internship can help with networking, and can give you exposure to what the work is like.
- Informational interviews. Although you should never ask for a job at an informational interview, they can nevertheless lead to opportunities. If you make an impression, the company will remember.
- Good resumes. Lisa hates long resumes. So does her boss. (And so do I.) “I’m not going to ask you on a date,” she said. “I don’t need to know everything you’ve done in your life.
- Researching the company. At the end of the interview, when the interviewer asks if you have questions, it’s good to have them. Researching the company can set you apart from other applicants.
Angela Boyer
Angela Boyer offered another way to “test-drive” a job. She started working in the field she wanted — but at the bottom. I think this is a great way to go. She suggested that if there’s a field you think you might want to get into, you should volunteer your time. Try it out. See what it’s really like. This can help prevent you from getting stuck in a job you hate.
Tammy Anderson
Tammy Anderson argued that an internship is one of the best things you can do while still in school. Multiple internships are great. Internships help you figure out what you really want to do. Tammy believes that job fairs are another great resource. Last of all, she also thinks that it’s best to find a job that you love. “The money I thought was important wasn’t as important as I thought,” Tammy said. “You need to find something you love.”
Amanda Miles
Amanda Miles noted that you can’t know where life is going to take you. When you’re trying to figure out what to do for work, go with your gut. Life is hard enough anyway without making yourself miserable. Why do something you don’t think you’re going to like? Find what you really like to do and find a way to make that a career. If you’re not sure what you want to do, consider graduate school. Most of all, enjoy the journey. Don’t be afraid to try different things.
J.D. Roth
Though my advice was geared toward personal finance and not finding a career, I did echo one common theme. I described my own experience spending 16 years in a job I hated. “Don’t do that,” I said. “If you can, find work that you love. Life’s too short to work a job you hate.” (Just for kicks, I’ve uploaded an outline of my talk, as well as my one-page guide to personal finance.)
And that, my friends, is your annual dose of career advice from Western Oregon University!
GRS is committed to helping our readers save and achieve your financial goals.Savings interest rates may be low, but that’s all the more reason to shop for the best rate.Find the highest savings interest rate from Ally Bank, Capital One 360, Everbank, and more.
This article is about Basics, Career
Disclaimer: This content is not provided or commissioned by American Express. Opinions expressed here are author's alone, not those of American Express, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by American Express. This site may be compensated through American Express Affiliate Program.
Discover is a paid advertiser of this site. Reasonable efforts are made to maintain accurate information. See the Discover online credit card application for full terms and conditions on offers and rewards.
SEARCH FOR RECENT ARTICLES
Thanks for this snippet of info and writing it down for us.
loading....
A lot of the advice from these panelists sounds great! But I’d be very careful about comments like this one from Amanda Miles: “If you’re not sure what you want to do, consider graduate school.”
I can’t speak from experience about professional degree programs (MBAs and so on). But in traditional academic disciplines, graduate school is like boot camp. It’s tough. It’s intensive. It can completely destroy your self-esteem. And it may be costing you money.
I would never recommend entering a graduate program unless you love the field you will be studying, and are prepared to make research and thesis-writing a full-time commitment. It’s not the same as another few years of college — not at *all*.
loading....
I personally hate the “do what you love” career advice. Not everybody can do what they love. Not everybody can make a living being a professional athlete or a pop star or an actor or a video game tester or a writer. And at a certain point we do our kids a disservice to continue to tell them “you can do whatever you want!”
This is part of what causes masses of college students – many of whom are borrowing masses of money to be there – choose majors in music and theater and dance and English and video games and basket-weaving (yes, both are actual majors you can pick), etc. Many end up with jobs they could have gotten without a degree, making barely over minimum wage and spend their 20′s and 30′s frustrated and overwhelmed by loads of debt.
Eventually many of them end up realizing they have to try to get a “real” job and they are never going to achieve their “dream” and wishing they’d spent that $50K to $200K on a more marketable skill set / degree. Now I’m all for a liberal arts education, but many students aren’t getting that OR professional training at college.
I have so many friends who moved to NYC or LA and are trying to be fashion designers or writers or actors. They are nearing 30 and feel jaded and aimless as they start to realize that maybe this isn’t going to work out and maybe they don’t have any unique talent and maybe competition is fierce in those areas and maybe somebody should have pointed that out instead of encouraging them to “reach for the stars!” their whole lives.
Incidentally, it’s also what causes thousands of talentless hacks to actually try out for and think they can make it onto American Idol.
loading....
@Meg (#3)
You have a point, but I think you’re missing the big picture. The advice isn’t “you can do anything you want”, because that’s not the case. Nobody’s saying “you can do anything you love”, because you’re right — not everyone can be a professional athlete (or a professional blogger).
I think that what these folks are trying to say (and certainly what I am trying to say) is that you should do something you love. Just as there’s no one person to whom you would be happily married, there’s no one job in which you would be happy to work.
I think that the opposite advice is dangerous. I know too many people trapped in jobs they hate. Hell, I was stuck in a job I hated for 16 years. Why? Because I didn’t think I could ever do something that I loved. I was wrong.
Every one of these speakers mentioned the “do what you love” advice, as did each of the speakers last year. It’s a common theme in nearly every career advice book I read. (I think that Penelope Trunk doesn’t care for this advice, but she’s a rare exception.) Why do so many people preach this? Because it’s far more important to be happy than to earn a huge income or to have a prestigious job.
So, I don’t think your concerns are actually at odds with the advice to “do what you love”. I think it’s important for people to find work that is meaningful and makes them happy. They shouldn’t stick with a soul-sucking job just because they earned a degree in it…
loading....
I understand the point of your comment, but I disagree. In fact, your comment seems to assume that no one can love being an accountant or a teacher or a nurse. The work we do in the world should be something that we ourselves find rewarding and worthwhile, and fortunately, people are diverse enough to be rewarded by a wide variety of fields.
The examples you cite (fashion designer, athlete, pop star) may be the jobs that the mainstream media focus on as “cool”, but that doesn’t mean that other pursuits aren’t worthy of passion. I know a professional arborist who loves caring for trees, a middle school teacher who can’t believe how lucky she is, and a scientific researcher who can’t wait to go to work in the morning.
It’s not easy to find the work you love, or to make that work pay enough to live on, but it is a worthy goal and good advice. Knowing yourself and what you value, and being willing to work hard without quick glory, are the first steps in achieving work you are proud to do.
loading....
I think it’s funny that Kris and I were leaving similar comments at the same time. When I marked hers as a great comment, she told me, “That’s nepotism at its finest.” Bah! I really liked her comment.
loading....
Meg,
I think you have a point. There’s a threshold where “do what you love” ceases to have meaning. Some of that I think has to do with being misguided about “what you love” you might think that you love fashion design, but you actually just love fashion and so on.
However, people “doing what they love” despite all odds to the contrary is how we end up with so many of our most celebrated artists. F. Scott Fitzgerald, Georgia O’Keefe, John Muir, all people who rejected the traditional path and went their own way. They also worked hard and made sacrifices to do what they love. I think that’s a difference. Doing what you love doesn’t mean having the easy life, it means that you work VERY VERY hard to get a lot of satisfaction from what you do.
loading....
@ JD – I know that both you and the career panelists are not specifically saying that you have to to something you dislike or that you should do something that pays well rather than something you enjoy. I too believe that people should enjoy what they do – but I also realize that that’s a very idealistic, upper-middle class, often unrealistic belief.
I think your point that “just as there’s no one person to whom you would be happily married, there’s no one job in which you would be happy to work” is a very valid and insightful one that needs to be pointed out to idealistic young people who are searching for their “dream job.” In fact the myth of finding your soul mate along with easy bliss and marital satisfaction is another dangerous expectation that’s been set up and spread around to our generation. A person can grow to enjoy and find meaning in a variety of different pursuits – though that doesn’t mean that you are going to “love” your job or find that it touches the depths of your soul. That’s what hobbies and volunteering and family is for.
@ Kris – I agree with you. I’m a banker, and I happen to really love what I do. But if I lost my job and was forced to be a barista at Starbucks (something I would decidedly not LOVE) I would do it without resentment, and I would focus instead on things I do love – blogging, spending time with friends, etc.
The fact is though that a lot of people will end up having to do jobs they don’t really enjoy. We need housecleaners and plumbers and waitresses and retail assistants and secretaries. Many people can get a sense of satisfaction from these jobs (as opposed to careers) if they choose to, but I think it’s dangerous to set up an expectation to young folks that they can and should always “love” what they do for work. It will often lead to feelings of failure and disappointment and/or endless frustrating search.
loading....
@Meg
It sounds as if we’re all on the same page — or at least close. I guess it would make more sense if instead of saying “do what you love”, we all said something more meaningful like: “don’t do what you hate and, if possible, find something to do that you love…eventually”. That doesn’t sound as nice, but it’s more accurate…
loading....
@ JD – agreed.
Great post by the way!
loading....
As a graduating senior, I have to weigh in on this topic. I have heard both sides of this argument before and I have decided to keep trying to find a job in something I like and is consistent with my morals. I feel like the people who took those jobs just for the money or who were just collecting a paycheck are the first ones to get laid off or fired. Companies want people with passion, people who care about coming to work, people who add value. Right? (So I’ve been taught in business class.) So what do you say to the person who has dreaded work the past few years but got laid off because they were just average? I’d rather make a lot less money but do something I love and contribute to society in that way.
loading....
There is a certain set of things that constitute “useful work” that people will pay you for. Certainly “professional athlete” and “movie star” fit onto this list, but there’s not much supply for these jobs. They’re quickly filled by only the exceptionally talented.
There are a lot of other jobs, like the ones Kris mentions — teacher, science researcher, or say general contractor, or web developer. These are things that don’t appeal to everyone, but to the people that they do appeal to, they can bring great satisfaction. There’s also a much larger supply of these sorts of jobs that makes getting them far more feasible than say, becoming a movie star.
But there’s a whole other class of jobs that fall into the “useful work” category. These are things that need to be done, but that almost no one wants to do. Things like picking strawberries, or washing dishes, or sorting out peoples’ recyclables after they’re picked up with the trash.
There are a *lot* of jobs in these fields of work that need to be done, a lot more than there are people who find them greatly satisfying. And so, despite the fact a significant percentage of people *can* do work that excites them, like the jobs mentioned earlier in the post, the economy depends on the work of people who don’t enjoy their jobs.
Those people either have to move to another field and leave the work of sorting through other people’s trash to some other poor schmuck, or they have to be able to live with the fact that they don’t like what they do. Even if they are able to move on to some other field, that just means a new guy is stuck with that position that no one really wants.
So, knowing that there are almost universally unappealing jobs out there, but that they have to be done, the advice can either be “leave those jobs for people who don’t have their lives as together as you do”, or it can be “learn to live with it”. One of those sounds defeatist, and the other elitist, but it’s simply a fact that not everyone can do interesting work, or no one will pick our fruit and no one will collect our trash.
The advice of personal finance bloggers generally falls into the camp above that sounds elitist. Personally I’m ok with that, but you have to realize that a lot of the comforts you take for granted *are* granted by other people working jobs that they don’t enjoy. They do not do this selflessly to improve the lives of those already more fortunate than them, they do it because they don’t know any better way.
No one thinks the people that harvest our food or make our clothes do it because they find it rewarding. They do it to make ends meet and to survive. Being able to choose work based on its intrerestingness rather than the amount of income it produces is a luxury awarded to a privileged few in the world. We fall into that privileged few. Others would like to be able to move into this group with us. A few will, but it’s not easy and it’s not possible for everyone — the economy simply can’t support it.
loading....
sdfsd Great post, I like JD’s revised statement: “…find something to do that you love…eventually”. Maybe it would have been more beneficial to the graduating students if this more accurate statement was emphasized by the speakers. I truly respect Merri’s sense of direction, but would that changed if it takes a very long time to find the ‘right’ job after graduation, not due to lack of passion/ability but purely a result of our current economy?
Her post makes me feel (even more) guilty for having a job I don’t have passion for, I feel like I’m stealing from the company, though my ego is preventing me from turning into a disgruntle/average worker. I’m constantly in search of that job I have passion for, but recently it’s not as high up on the priority list; I wish I had Merri’s courage.
loading....
I agree with Meg. I think a lot of emphasis is put on having meaningful and rewarding occupations, which is fine and great if you can do it. For me personally, I’ve never had much of a desire to do any one thing. My goals in life go beyond my career, and I think this is where a lot of people get hung up. Much like money is not the key to happiness, an enjoyable career may not necessarily make one a happy person. I have no doubt that it might help, but I often wonder if people aren’t looking at the big picture here. I’ve always loved the saying: “Do you live to work or work to live?” I fall into the latter category. Work is simply a means for me to afford to do the things I truly enjoy in life, and if I have to work a job I’m not completely thrilled with, so be it, the world is bigger than 9 to 5.
loading....
How about “Love what you do!”
loading....
I am about to leave a job I hate but that pays quite well, $85 000. I have been with this company for 16 years. I can’t wait to get out of there.
The vetenerian’s office in my neighboorhood is looking for an assistant for about $30 000 a year. Now, that I would love to do. Money is NOT everything.
Going to work every day and feeling like you’re dying inside is very bad for the soul.
loading....
I think most jobs have a lot of wiggle room to “love” or “hate” them. I think it is almost more important to focus on the job environment that you “love”. If you have a great boss, if you have co-workers who are smart and supportive, if you have opportunity to make decisions and have an impact – I think that is a great job.
I’ve had that environment both as an hourly cafe worker and as a highly compensated National Sales Executive. The jobs were completely different but both “environments” were remarkably similar. I advise graduates to learn as much as they can in any job – not just about the profession but about themselves and what environments make them happy. That knowledge is priceless and gives you a lot more career options.
loading....
As the owner of a small company, I want to endorse the “do what you love” advice.
Why on earth would I want to invest time, money, effort, training, and heartache on an employee who isn’t enjoying what they’re doing? If they don’t like what they do, they’re sure to go away and do something they like better (either for the money or for the content).
When advertising for employees and subcontractors, my primary question is “why are you perfect for this job?” and the responses I get make very clear who it is who loves my field (new media translation) and who is sort of ok with it.
As an employer, which kind would *you* hire?
loading....
I graduated college with a very marketable science degree and took a hated job right after graduation. Not because I needed the money per se, but because there weren’t a lot of jobs open at the time in general. Jobs in my field take a while to get into, and while I am good at my field, a full time job in that work is definitely my “Plan B”. I’ve also gone to graduate school after some time in the work force, and am currently trying to gear myself towards doing what I love, so I feel I can provide a useful perspective.
No matter what your degree, no matter how high your grades, test scores, skill set, college graduates are going to enter any field at the bottom of the ladder. They may even stay in that entry-level position for quite some time, through no real fault of their own. Get used to it, and get used to the fact that crap rolls downhill. Every career choice has this aspect, and it’s just a part of being an “adult”. The situation will improve over time, so don’t get demoralized while you hang in there. Sometimes you do have to take any job, just to pay the rent, but try and focus on things that provide fulfillment for you on your time off, since your job likely doesn’t do it for you.
Currently working in collaboration with a small business owner, I will echo the sentiment that employers prefer employees who are passionate about their work. Too many workers simply show up to collect a paycheck vs. being actively engaged in their work. While you are working, be focused and passionate about that. Other things can come after you punch out for the day.
Graduate school is tough. Having conducted research, endured rigorous classes, and written a thesis, I can say that this decision is not one to take lightly. You will be in school with (hopefully) the best and brightest in your area. While you don’t have to have scholarly aspirations to make graduate school a good choice for you, you do need to make schoolwork a higher priority than most people do while in undergrad. Late and sloppy work is not accepted, less than a B equals failing a class, and if you screw up or make yourself look foolish, it will be pointed out, somewhat publicly. Thick skin is recommended.
Instead of figuring out whether or not individuals should do or not do what they love, I think it should be best phrased “do what allows you to do what you love.” This sentiment has been echoed by others. You definitely can’t always follow your dream full time, and if not, decide what you can do to make your dream as big a part of your life as you can without dropping the ball elsewhere. As foolish as it may sound, I am working to get my employer’s small business up and running so I can attempt to “make it” as a professional musician. Time, not ability or resources, is my main deterrent from doing so, and the small business job allows me great flexibility to allow me to maximize my time devoted to music. Because we both want to “work smarter, not harder”, as well as spend time doing other things, this philosophy allows us to make more money in less time with some careful planning and research.
If working the graveyard shift at the local gas station allows you to {insert goal here} and still meet your financial obligations, do it. While not everything comes down to availability and time, be open and flexible with what you do to earn money. Having to pay the bills does not have to equal work in a cubical farm. If you don’t have many more options (like I did right after college), just bide your time until a better opportunity comes along. This is what I did, and it worked out well for me.
Obviously, this likely won’t, and probably can’t, work for everyone, but that is my 2¢.
loading....
I think the majority of people go to school get out get a job and find that they have done what they have been told is right. Everyone has a “dream job” something that they would love to do. For all of you on this post you say that one has to settle, your already dead. I know for a fact that each and everyone of you still think about what you really want to do. Your going to go the grave with it if you dont decide to really make an EFFORT. Do you think the people that pick fruit or pick up trash dont want to be doing something different? They don’t have the work ethic or the courage to do so. If you want something then go and get it, don’t sit around talking to people enabling you. We all have ONE life to live. For those thinking to respond with responsibility issues and the like, come on wake up take a chance, take ten chances. If you screw up then find a way out of it aka problem solve. If you settle for something below your expectations then your going to regret it your entire life.
loading....
Every thing I’ve ever loved doing that I turned into a form of employment, I soon became bored with. This advice (as most advice) is suitable only for some people.
jegan
loading....
One of the items brought up in this article was to research the company. This is a great piece of advice. When interviewing people, I often ask, “What is is this company does”. It is amazing the amount of people that get stumpt at thi s question. Certainly, if you are applying for a job, you should take 5 minutes to review the company’s website for some understanding of what the company does.
loading....
This advice doesn’t apply to me. I don’t super love my job, but I do my best, I’m pretty good at what I do, I have a nice boss and nice coworkers, I work nearby, and the company doesn’t deal with anything shady that my morals would go against. Again, I don’t love my job because if I didn’t have to work for a living, I would not continue to come in every day or have anything to do with what the company does. But its rewards provide the opportunity for me to pay for my living standards and reach my other goals, such as having a family.
I would be very careful to spew the “Do what you love” advice, and instead maybe say, “You don’t have to be stuck at a job if you really hate it. There are other options out there that you might actually enjoy more than what you have now.” I know that “Do what you love” is easier to say, but it can be misleading to a lot of people.
loading....
This is to J.D. and Meg #3. I would have to agree with both of you…I did engineering in college because that’s what my parents wanted, and thought that they wanted it too. And I was absolutely miserable. Then I graduated with that degree, got a job, and a pretty nice signing bonus for someone who just completed a bachelor’s degree. Then what? My mom saw my signing bonus, and told me that some other profession (nursing) makes more than I did. And I absolutely had it…partly becuase I had told her about other jobs that I would have been happy with, that pay more than engineering.
So what am I doing now? Well, I’m going back to school, and using the degree I have to pay for training and education in a field that I’ve wanted which has always been tv/news/entertainment. I got into it in 4th grade. High school only solidified it. That feeling of a live show was something I never got over. I don’t really want the fame and fortune that comes with some of the more prominent jobs within my dream industry. I just want to work behind the scenes, make enough to live, be happy, and get rich slowly (J.D. your blog is so refreshing and puts into words a lot of ideas I had about money when I was 19/20). So for right now, I am attending a local community college working on a certificate program and other classes that can transfer to another university should I decide to be further educated in this field.
J.D. I think that something that is missing on this topic is community colleges. They are absolutely wonderful for a variety of things. I would highly recommend that people take a class or two in a field or dream that they’ve been interested in. The classes are relatively inexpensive and most of the teachers actually work in the industry. They can give real insight, guidance, and may provide contacts for students who are interested. I’m currently talking to a few professors to see how I can combine engineering with the entertainment industry, and possibly have a split or “slash” career.
The classes at community colleges are also good for upgrading or learning new skills that will help you with your current job. With the economy the way it is, I’m also going back to school to learn skills that will help me with my current job…engineering.
Yes…not everyone can have a job that they want or is interesting…or is satisfying (as I’ve experienced) but there are definitely ways to work it in…or at the very least…get to it slowly.
loading....
JD, this statement- “don’t do what you hate and, if possible, find something to do that you love…eventually.”- is *much* more useful than the pithy “do what you love.”
I’ve heard the latter line from a lot of different people since I was in high school…but of course I had no idea what I wanted to do when I went to college, changed my mind a few times, and even now that I’m out of school, I’ve changed my mind again. Along the way I’ve racked up student loans that were unnecessary (but that I don’t regret in the end since following the educational path I did led to me meeting my husband!) and am now faced with getting a job that I “don’t hate” to fund what I love.
What I wish someone had told me is that the work you do to make money can and sometimes should be completely separate from whatever it is that you really enjoy doing. Some people will never make money from doing what they love (I’m going to attempt to set up my own business eventually, but that’s still years away) and it’s totally fine to just work in a job you simply like well enough to bring in an income and pursue your interests on the side. Your job doesn’t have to bring you fulfillment, you just have to not hate it (unless of course, you’re lucky enough to not have to worry about money at all!)
Maybe all this seems obvious, but so many people kept telling me “you can be anything you want to be!” and “your career should follow your passion!” that I bought into it hook line and sinker and didn’t even think that one day, working in a job that’s just “okay” would be good enough. But, you know what? It is.
loading....
To No. 3.
Sorry to here that you’re a little bitter about the “you can do anything” bit..
In my experience and of my friends you can actually make it to most of those jobs you think are unattainable (video games, musician, etc.) I’ve been at my “dream job” for almost a decade now.
It all comes down to three things:
Sacrifices
Persistence
Flexibility
When I say sacrifices I mean the big ones: knowing that you may never make as much money as your friends and family ever but you’re doing what you love and still make an ok living. You can definitely do this as an artist or musician. It’s if you want to go that path.
Going without on many things: new car, maybe never getting a house, no cable, no eating out for YEARS, practically living in the closet. Looking to attract a mate with that lifestyle? Don’t plan on it or wait decades for someone that is understanding enough of your worldview since it’s so very rare. This is what is needed t make it.
Next is persistence. If you aren’t in it for the long haul and I mean the LONG haul you have no business going for it anyway. The roadblocks are there to see how serious you and other people are.
I’m talking 5-10 years minimum, at least 10,000 hours doing what you need to do to become a master. Most pianists don’t get to Carnegie, why? It’s not because of talent, it’s because of iron will commitment. There are too many distractions in this world so very few people have real commitment to what they think they really want.
Now the third one seems like a reversal of the second, flexibility, but really it’s not. It’s a sense of acuity where you know what’s working, change your approach to your goal and re-commit.
It’s a sense of knowing how far you can stretch and knowing your limitations and most likely readjusting to your reality but not your uber-end path.
Ex: Someone wants to get into Pixar. Insanely hard to get into. You have the same odds as getting into the Yankees.
So what is your purpose to get into Pixar? You’re committed to creating beautiful art and telling a story that touches people. Do you have to get into only Pixar? Not really. You could get into Dreamworks, or freelance around a major city in smaller boutique studios. Maybe not get into cg film at all, go into videos where you’re the art director. Ends up you have more flexibility than being a cog in a well oiled machine. Not as much fame but you’re still creating art.
These three things are the fuel to push you to your true dreams. I know plenty of people who got there and it was never, ever easy or lucky. You make your own luck. Hope someday you see it that way.
loading....
I think JD’s advice to the students was good, basically “Don’t stay at a job you hate.”
I mean, I think you can learn a lot by working at a job you don’t like, as long as you aren’t there for more than a year or two.
As for the internship advice, I would second that. It has been crucial in my life and I think every college student needs to realize that it’s the perfect thing to do: you have the time, you don’t “need” the money, so go out there and try lots of different fields to see what you life.
loading....
I think doing what you love is paramount. I have an uncle who makes double the income I make yet hates going to work. He works 5 days per week so that he can enjoy all of toys on his 2 days off. I enjoy my 4 days per week (I work four 10′s) and then spend 3 days per week doing other stuff I enjoy. I may not have the newest fancy car or boat but I enjoy life 7 days per week.
There is obviously a minimum standard that you need. I would rather work a less than desirable job than have no car and live off of Top Ramen all week, but once you meet that minimum, having a job you love is much more important than extra toys.
loading....
“don’t do what you hate and, if possible, find something to do that you love…eventually”.
I like this phrasing better. Sometimes you have to do what you hate to get to something that you love. I hated working as a bilingual customer service rep but it was a key step in getting real world experience after college. I made a commitment to myself that I would take the job, learn all that I could and give it my best, but not stop looking for another job in the meantime and also gave myself a time limit that I was willing to work there. That experience, plus my degree, got me in the job that I love now.
So, I would say that new grads should be realistic and be prepared not to find the “perfect” job the first time around. However, you have to be open to learn a lot even from jobs you hate. In my case, I learned how to effectively deal with conflict, how to say no, how to negotiate with clients, etc., and these are all transferable skills that can help down the road and helped me get into a job that I love.
loading....
I just want to reiterate what #2 said–”if you don’t know what you want to do, go to grad school” is bad advice, and I’m afraid that’s getting lost here in the “do what you love” discussion…
Grad school is more often than not about training you to be a professional of one sort or another: a social worker, a business manager, an academic. It isn’t about taking a few years to try different fields on for size. You’d be better off planning to take 5-10 years to work series of entry-level jobs in a variety of potentially interesting fields, because then you’d actually have a sense of what the work/industry entails, AND you’d be getting paid for your time.
loading....
I have to agree with Meg (from an earlier comment). You can’t read a personal finance blog or book without getting the “do what you love” speech. And obviously this is the ideal. But not everybody can do what they love. If so, who would collect garbage, repave roads, work at McDonalds, get the power back on during raging storms etc etc. This is all honorable and important work – but I’m sure most people doing it don’t love it.
When I went off to college my parents urged me to do something that pays well. They raised 2 kids on a minimal income. We were not poor by any means, but money was always tight. The realized that life is much easier with a good income. I took their advice; I don’t love what I do. But our house is paid for, we have a fully-funded emergency fund and quite a bit of savings.
Another problem is what if what you love does not easily translate to work? I love baseball, reading, walking and history. How do I make a living with that? (No, I’m not good enough to be a baseball player.)
I’m always glad when someone can make a living doing what they love. But too often those people seem to look down on those of not so fortunate.
loading....
To follow up #2, #30, and others on the grad school topic -
If you don’t know what you want to do, how are you going to know what kind of grad program you want to go to? It’s not just “more undergrad” where you sample the various things life has to offer – it’s serious, intense training in a particular academic or professional area (and if it’s not, it probably results in a degree not worth the paper it’s printed on, despite how much it cost you). It’s a particularly poor way to “figure out what you like to do.”
Plenty of graduating college students who haven’t figured out what they want to do with life come up with the “hey, I’ll just go to grad school” idea on their own, and it’s usually a bad one. They really don’t need someone in a position of authority/credibility backing them up on that play.
loading....
I always hated hearing “do what you love.” I don’t have a “dream job” or a field I’m particularly passionate about. I don’t “love” my job and I’m not “passionate” about the field I work in. However, I do enjoy going to work, find it satisfying, like my boss and co-workers. The company is very generous with benefits, and also flexible, allowing me to have a life, which is what’s really important to me. My 9-5 is good enough, and it supports me in doing all the other stuff I enjoy away from the office. I also do a good job; my employer would be hard pressed to find someone who does my job as well as I do and is also passionate about it. People don’t typically get that way about accounts payable.
So Ryan #20 your point doesn’t apply to everyone either; not everyone has a deep burning passion to have a particular job or work in particular field. Those that do have access to that, as jla #26 pointed out so eloquently. And for the rest of us, it’s up to us to find something we enjoy enough, or just enjoy what we’re doing now and appreciate what it provides. I bet even the berry-pickers and trash collectors can find a way to not hate their jobs, whether they’re working towards something better or even just providing a decent living for their families. It can be done.
PS I went to grad school (after career #1 turned out to be a dud) and it was the best thing I’ve done. It was a lot of work, and a fair amount of money, and I didn’t get a job out of it, but I am SO GLAD I pursued something just for me, just to satisfy pure intellectual curiosity. Not for everyone, but certainly for me.
loading....
I understand that the US market demands single page resumes. Is that true? It seems ridiculously short. The standard in the UK is 2-3 pages depending on seniority.
loading....
Still it’s important to do thorough research within yourself to find out what you love or like to do best. The earlier you do this, the better. Too often we dive into careers that will not fulfill us or make us happy. I wrote an article (http://bestlifeweb.com/how-to-find-the-work-you-love-and-earns-you-a-good-living/) about finding out what you would like to do using the book ‘what colour is your parachute’. I think that book is as relevant now as it was when it was written.
loading....
So what about the people who may love to do things that are less than legal? Is this the right thing to preach to them “do what you love”? Say, for instance, a person loves stealing airbags and catalytic convertors from cars? Are you saying that the person should work 8-4 at a legit mechanic garage putting in headlights? And what if what you love is not financially viable? What then oh gurus of employment?
Also this “work at what you love” lingo always obmits the “slave work for years at really garbage jobs while you try to get the work you really love up and running or get hired for the work you really love” part. Oh, and do not think that your garbage jobs will then pin you down to a certain level when looked at by the job that you love.
Never says that part- just the ” do what you love”. Nothing about making your bones to get to what you love.
Example: I had a relative who, about 20 years ago, wanted to get into NASCAR. Even then you just didn’t show up at the top teams and say “Hire me, I want to work in NASCAR”
I got to see my relative work his way up the rungs, from crappy local teams based in the corner of a heavy bulldozer equipment shop to working a temporary job 40 hours and then another 6-7 hours each night on a race car to living in his worn out pickup truck’s camper to follow the race circuit to working for lower level entry teams (the then Busch series now Nationwide) to renting a room to be able to afford to live in NC to finally get to the Nextel/Sprint (then Winston) Cup team level via smaller teams and then work his way up to one of the premier national teams. I saw this guy pay his dues to work at what he loved. Many people would have looked down on and did look down on him in how he was living and what he was doing to get there but he did achieve it. That is the part the “do what you love” people leave out.
Also try making sacrfices to get to the “doing what you love” when you have legal obligations such as child support or health insurance to carry. Can someone quit a professional office job paying X to work as a hiking guide paying 1/4 of X and still satisfy child support payments of 1/4X based on a salary of X? That math never works and so why not ask for a change in support payment amount? Buddy, dont think it will ever happen as the court (and former spouse) wants that childsupport amount of 1/4X based on the salary of X and you better well be working at a job that makes X or you are going to jail! Sure “do what you love”. Right…
loading....
“If you’re not sure what you want to do, consider graduate school.”
Ick! If you aren’t sure you want to be in graduate school, go find yourself, and earn money (not pay it!) while you are doing it. Grad school is for specializing, not for those who don’t know what to do!
Rather than “do what you love” the advice should be “create a life that you love.”
I generally like my job, but a lot of days, I just don’t love it. But I do love my life, I love that my job challenges me, and also that it demands just 40 hours giving me time/money to pursue other interests.
If I “did what I loved” I’d go on backpacking/hiking trips, and write all the time. But I’d hate my life because I’d be stressed about the lack of security/stability (and food, because I’d be broke). I don’t (currently) have an entrepreneurial spirit, so I tire of advice to start our own businesses doing what we love. That isn’t for everyone.
My passions tend to shift, and like to try a little of this and that, and I really like keeping my stable engineering career as a foundation of security and mental challenge.
For now at least.
loading....
ITA SP#37!
If you don’t know what you want to do, the best thing I found is temping. You get to work (entry level) in a bunch of different industries, doing all different kinds of work. You learn what you like, what you can live with, and what you can’t stand – both in jobs and in industries. I found it to be pretty interesting, and it’s how I landed my current job.
loading....
Though most of my fire has been covered by the excellent comments exchanged here, I wanted to vent anyway.
I like the rephrased advice much better than the usual trite, “Do what you love.” All of this advice seems to focus on getting all of your fulfillment from your job. That is a recipe for failure, or at least a really boring retirement. I work to provide for my family and support the Church. I am working on starting my own business and I’d love to dedicate more time to it, but responsibilities must come before passion. If I were the boss, I would rather hire someone with a steady level of commitment, even to work which he hated, than someone who only worked on what he was passionate about.
I have always believed that I work to live, I don’t live to work.
loading....
“If I were the boss, I would rather hire someone with a steady level of commitment, even to work which he hated, than someone who only worked on what he was passionate about.”
I’m the opposite, since I consider above to be a ridiculous statement.
What I hear is:
“Put yer nose to the grindstone boy, and because you hate your job and have no choice in the matter since you have other committments show up everyday, I’m going to take advantage of that fact and pay you less and give you crap work so you can be a cube zombie.”
I do believe that work isn’t everything..but since it’s 1/3 of your life (if your lucky and not work massive overtime like most Americans) I better think you would want to do something you really like doing.
loading....
Jla, per your previous post, “10,000 hours” is not 1/3 of your life. You talk about dedicating your entire life to one goal. Iron will commitment and sacrifice are just as necessary to go to a job which is unpleasant as to qualify for the job which you love.
I concurred with the restatement, “Don’t do a job which you hate.” There are a wide range of jobs which fall between love and hate. By all means, everyone should work to get out of a job they hate.
loading....
Going to graduate school if you don’t know what you want to do is TERRIBLE advice. I know, because I made this mistake. Graduate school requires you to specialize in something. How can you do this if you don’t know what you want to do? This is an expensive way to find yourself.
I learned by experience to follow the advice of Stephen Covey of “7 Habits” fame: Begin with the end in mind.
I may yet go back to graduate school, but if and when I will do it will be for a specific reason or objective, not because I don’t know what I want to do.
loading....
Not sure if anyone still comes around on this blog but I too get tired of hearing “do what you love” when being given career advice. I’d love to be a writer but I don’t feel I am anywhere near good enough, and even if I was, well gee, only a few handful actually can make a living out of it.
Jla writes that employers would rather hire employees who would be passionate, but if one were forced to apply at McDonald’s because everywhere else turned him down, then I’d guess he’d have to pretend he was passionate about wanting to work there huh?
I’ve hated every one of my jobs but I was always a good employee. I doubt McDonald’s really believes anyone applying there really has a burning desire to work there but we do it so we don’t become homeless…
loading....