I’ve had good control of my saving and spending for nearly two years now. I still make poor choices now and then, but they don’t have the consequences they would have a decade ago. A decade ago, I was in debt. Today, I am not.
That’s one of the advantages of being debt-free: when you do something dumb, the repercussions are not as severe. But I remember a time when each bad choice brought me closer to the brink.
Fumbling in the dark
During the 1990s, I had a spending problem. I was a compulsive spender. It’s not that I just bought books and comics and compact discs. I spent money on everything. I wanted everything. I had a house full of Stuff, most of which sat unused. I was filling some emotional void by buying.
Saying that makes it sound as if I were aware of the problem. I wasn’t. I had a vague idea that my spending was out of control, and carrying $20,000 in maxed-out credit cards was certainly causing me stress, but I didn’t know how to stop. Every time I paid one card down a little, I’d find some reason to buy something new. A small part of me knew that I had a problem, but I could not stop myself.
When I look back now, it seems as if I were fumbling in the dark. My wife would tell me how she was saving for retirement, and the idea seemed impossible to me. Because we’ve always kept separate finances, I would marvel that she had several thousand dollars in savings. I had nothing. I had no savings account. And my checkbook usually had less than a hundred dollars in it. (Sometimes the balance was negative!)
Although I knew I had a problem with debt, I continued to spend without thinking. Worse, sometimes I would spend with thinking. I’d be out with friends and they’d want to go for drinks or go see a movie, and I’d do it, even though I knew I couldn’t afford it. I’d do it, even though I knew my stomach would be in knots next time I saw my account statements.
As I spent compulsively — as I accumulated debt — I had no concept of proper money management.
I’m a smart guy. In high school, I won a national award for my “business math” skills. Were you to set me down and tell me, “If you spend more than you earn, you will continue to have debt,” I would have understood you intellectually — but I would have kept spending.
I read about budgets, but never used one. I had Quicken for my computer, and I would use it from time-to-time, but mostly I didn’t track my money. There were months at a time when I didn’t write anything in my checkbook register. I operated on a sort of voodoo finance system, where I sort of knew how much I had in the bank, but not really.
I had no idea what I was doing with my money. I had no financial goals.
The zeroth stage
Last month, I wrote about a theoretical “third stage” of personal finance, a place one reaches after mastering the basics of money management. At the time, I posited the stages of personal finance might look like this:
- The first stage of personal finance is learning the basics: understanding compound interest, reducing debt, beginning to save.
- The second stage is putting the basics into practice: choosing to live frugally, saving in earnest, and pursuing financial goals.
- The third stage — the “what next?” stage — comes after we’ve mastered the fundamentals. It’s at this point that we begin to ask “why?” Why are we continuing to save? All of our debts are paid, so what’s the point? (There certainly is a point, but what is it?)
I’ve thought about this a lot over the past few weeks, and I’ve realized that there are at least two other stages that I didn’t include. The fourth (and final) stage is Financial Independence, as defined in Your Money or Your Life. This is the point at which you have “enough — and then some”.
But there’s also an earlier stage, one that comes before the first stage. In the system I’m trying to define here, a person enters the first stage of money management when she’s decided to take control of her life, is learning about the basic concepts, is paying down her debt and beginning to save. What comes before that?
Before that is the zeroth stage of personal finance, where a person doesn’t exercise any sort of financial skills at all. Often, he isn’t even aware that he should do so. He uses money without thinking. And, more often than not, he lives reactively, spending in response to things outside his life.
My behavior during the 1990s? That was all part of the zeroth stage.
Thinking out loud
During the month of March, I’d like to explore the notion of these stages of money management. Each Sunday I’ll write about the next stage. It’s a sort of thought experiment.
Generally my articles at Get Rich Slowly are polished and have a point, but these posts may be rambling. They’re a chance for me to think out loud, and for you to help me refine the concept of money management “stages”.
What do you think of my model? Am I missing steps? Are the stages not as clearly delineated as I would like to believe? What step are you on right now? What challenges do you face? These are the sorts of things I want to talk about this month. It should be an interesting discussion.
Even if nothing else comes of this, I’ve realized over the past few weeks that my goal in life is to help as many people as possible escape the zeroth stage of money management. If I can help more people to join me in the third stage, that would be awesome.
This article is about Basics, Psychology, Real-Life
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Lizz #18
What an inspiring story!
Ben, Tyler:
How JD and Kris manage their finances has always been strange to me. In my marriage, there are some financial stuff we manage separately, each one has money for free spending etc but at the end of the day, our principle is “your money is my money”. We like this method because we keep each other accountable but at the same time, have independent money management. We also have an approved joint budget. How about if one spouse loses his/her income? Would he/she have to borrow money from the other person? What about retirement? If one person did not save for retirement, is he/she going to be poor while the other enjoys life?
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…and no judgement either. As JD says, “do wat works for you”…
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OOOH! As someone who is currently in a 1.5 stage I’d say (I’ve got a great consolidation loan, and have an emerg fund starting, am downsizing my apt to something a bit more frugal, etc)… I’d love to hear about other people’s strategies for decluttering – ie getting rid of *stuff*… I don’t have a lot, but I’ve got books/ CDs/ clothes, etc that i’d like to pitch, but I’d like to get the most out of so I can put it towards debt…
Thoughts!??!?!
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Is so difficult even to get into first level and to understanding compound interest, reducing debt and beginning to save.
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Ramble on! I am learning a lot!!!!
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Comment for Sundance (as well as GRS readers): YES, kids are real budget-busters. I know that w/my husband’s 105,000 salary, we should have a LOT more saved, but with 15,000+ annually for private, Catholic education for our 3 kids (the public schools here are HORRIBLE-only 60-70% even graduate!, we’re constantly swimming against the tide. Also, we put $700+/mo. in a deferred retirement account but if we have 3 more weeks of these declines in the market, we will be eating into our initial capital. Not to mention that my husband will lose $12,000 from his gross pay this year due to the strain on our economy BYE-BYE $$! But it’s only money, so just keep a smile on your face, thank God for your wonderful gifts (children, health, family, & friends) and pray for contentment.
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JD – Thank you for all of your great posts. I’ve been a GRL reader for a few months now and I often think you and I could have been seperated at birth. I have many of the same financial bad habits you’ve had.
I’m working through mine and would say I’m finally in First Stage but spent most of my years in Zeroth Stage.
I’ve worked to get my emergency fund set up (from Total Money Makeover). A close friend’s mom passed away this week and because of finally having some savings I was able to buy an airline ticket, rent a car and a hotel room for the weekend. If I hadn’t saved for an unexpected event I wouldn’t have been there for one of my closest friends.
I will work twice as hard to replinish the savings I just spent but I learned what having cash on hand will allow me to do. As Suze Orman says “People first, then money, then things.”
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These are the kinds of posts you write that I like the best. I don’t know that I could be as open to the world as you are. I look forward to this continuing discussion.
My husband and I have the combined money system, with one exception. He has a savings account of his own that he funds from work he does in addition to his 40-hr per week job, selling firewood and laying hardwood floors. That is his “play” money and he uses it mostly to fund scuba diving excursions without affecting the family budget. Sometimes some of his money gets donated to the family funds just as a boost. Sometimes I’ve borrowed money from him for sudden family emergencies (on a weekend or something), but I always repay him/his fund. No interest or anything. This method works well for us. I think that’s the key … what works best for the couple or family.
Shirley
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I’m interested to see at what stage you think the “Ah-ha!” moment would come. For me, it came after I set up a monthly budget and tracked it for a couple of months. The first month I was able to excuse certain behavors, but if it continues to a second month, there is no denying a problem!
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Previously: “Now, instead of hoarding stuff, like comic books and DVDs, you’re hoarding cash. Are you still trying to fill “some emotional void?”
I’d say “Hoarding” money (saving) is not done to fill an emotional void in the negative sense, it’s done to fill an emotional (and potentially physical) void in the positive sense.
Many more people are likely to lose their jobs. Many more people are likely to lose their houses. The Dow is likely to go below 5,000 before this is over (with occasional bear market rallies that will make people think that maybe new deficit spending in the trillions is a good idea).
Savings can be used to keep body and soul together as things get worse.
Keep saving!!! (Even if some call it “hoarding” and denigrate that which they apparently don’t understand.)
And if you are a fiscally conservative saver, write to the President, your Senators, and Congresspeople to urge them back to fiscal sanity. The only ones they appear to be hearing from are those who have their hands out for bailout money. Let them hear from those who DON’T want new trillion-dollar deficits starting under President Obama.
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Love the idea of this post! I’m looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts. I think the stages idea is a good one. I further think what’s going to make it interesting is when you delve into ‘what’ makes people start or exit a stage and ‘why’ at that particular time they did it. The action or ah-ha moments inbetween the set stages, those are going to be the inspiring stories GRS is known for! The set point where people commit to start a stage, or aim higher by leaving one stage for the next, I hope that you can start by sharing yours, JD, and I hope that others care to share theirs! Thanks for writing this blog. I check it more regularly than the news now
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Sounds like you had what I call the “A-ha, I get it!” moment.
For some of us it comes later than for others. Thankfully– it came in time for you and for me.
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Hi everybody -
For me, the “a-ha” moment as a zeroist was a comment by Louise Hay in one of her books (I think it was “The Power is In You”). She asked, “what are you getting out of being in debt? What is the benefit?” I was stunned by her question…I mean wasn’t it obvious? I was “in” debt so how could I “get” anything? Especially a “benefit”! When I finished snickering I started to seriously ponder her question. Then it hit me: There WAS a benefit to my being in debt. Debt enabled me to pretend I didn’t have power and responsibility over my choices. Debt made me think in terms of scarcity instead of in terms of abundance. For someone who thinks “scarcity”, sudden “abundance” can be a scary thing. That’s why so many broke people who win the lottery return to being broke soon afterwards. It’s scary living a life of abundance
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@ Kerry no. 35: sweetie, I hate to be a downer but please do not marry this guy yet. He is not ready. From what you write, you are acting as his parent, and he is not acting like your partner.
Best financial advice I can give you from long years of trying to carry a partner: DON’T DO IT. You are doing an awesome job of managing your own life, but it is HIS job to manage HIS life. You cannot live for (or support) both of you, especially if you want to have kids in the short term (5 years is short. Your guy will barely be done with school by then – if he finishes – which may be doubtful if you had to convince him to enroll).
You love him, so keep doing what you’re doing, but please do NOT create a situation where HIS lack of financial responsibility could lead to YOUR bankruptcy.
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sorry, that was Kerry 34. fell all over myself there.
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Check out the Stages of Change model, detailed in the book Changing for Good by Prochaska, Norcross and DiClements (Morrow 1994) The stage you’re describing they would call “precontemplation”, where one indulges in “foolish freedom” and one’s behavior is more obviously problematic to others than it is to oneself. They describe strategies that can be useful in helping folks move along to the stages in which meaningful change can be accomplished. It’s a model that’s applicable to a variety of difficulties, well researched and useful.
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Tyler -
From what you wrote about you and your wife’s money management, you seem to assume the wife’s income is optional? So his income is the “real income”, and hers is “extra”?
It’s certainly possible to have one common pot for a marriage. It’s also possible to keep them more separate. My husband and I do pool our money, but it’s made a bit more complicated because I usually make 3 or 4 times what he does…if anything he’s afraid of spending much on himself because he feels it’s not “his”.
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I think I started out in the second stage and have repeatedly dipped into some other stage that might look from the outside like the “zeroith” but which from the inside is something else entirely…
Sometimes the choices aren’t “do I buy this thing I think I want” or “pay down debt and save for something better.” For me they’ve been more like “stay home with my sick baby or keep my ‘good job’”
At times I’ve spent on credit, knowing that it was going to cost me big time later, but feeling it was for a higher purpose – “hold onto the house that is appreciating or end up losing it, destroying my credit, and trying to find rent as cheap…”
These choices have actually worked out for me in the past…. I’ve gone as far as bankruptcy, and I’ve also repaid tens of thousands of dollars in debt.
Right now my net worth is up… I’ve got liquid savings, investments, and no debt aside from my mortgage. I’ve read the books, learned the concepts, know how to run the numbers, yet I know that I’d take my life over my money every time.
I don’t know how that fits in with your stages. Got one for me? Or is this actually that zeroith stage masked with complex rationalization?
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I was a zero when my husband was a 2.5. We maintain separate checking/saving accounts and separate credit cards, tied to each of our credit unions. While he was piling up money in his saving account, I was running up credit card debt for clothing, books, fun stuff, etc. I was not extravagant in any single purchase, but I bought too many “bargains” I didn’t need–and they added up. And although I never had a problem meeting payments, I wasn’t reducing my debt. Then one day, my husband asked me how much I owed on my credit cards. I actually didn’t know, to my embarrassment. But when I totaled it and told him (it was about $12,000), the look on his face–total dismay–was the emotional event that turned my financial life around. He helped bail me out by contributing money to my pumped-up monthly payments. With his help, I was able to pay everything off within about 18 months. That was a few years ago. Now, I have a good emergency fund, pay off my credit card balance every month (I use it only at the gas pump and for online purchases) and put about 15% of my income into my 401k. Even as my 401k plummets in value, I feel good about my finances–finally.
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I would encourage you to add some kind of “Big Picture” stage and also something about keeping your “Personal Balance Sheet” in mind.
By “Big Picture” I mean the country’s and the world’s political and economic trends. My husband and I believed that the house market in California was unsustainable. We sold, banked the money, and moved to a less expensive area. It is now pretty certain that fuel will be going up and with the enormous debt our country is taking on, inflation and higher interest rates are in our future. A fixed rate mortgage is important and don’t get money locked into low rates for too long.
The “Big Picture” also means look at the income side of your plans as well as the expense side. Consider buying a rental property for future income. Keep it in excellent shape so that you don’t have huge expenses coming down the pike and so that you can be proud of what your tenants get for their rent.
By “Personal Balance Sheet” I mean make decisions about capital expenditures differently from cash flow expenditures. In my book, spending money on good insulation trumps lowering the thermostat (though, of course you can do both). Insulation raises the value of your property and saves money on heat. Doing quality upkeep on your home and on any other properties you own will pay off in the long run, with higher property values and fewer headaches. (Notice that I say “quality” not luxury. You’re going to be stuck with a granite countertop long after you’re sick of it, but can change a laminate inexpensively and use the old laminate for in the basement or garage.)
A personal balance sheet will help you to have a long view so that you feel that you are moving ahead even when you are choosing the basic model of a good car rather than the luxury model.
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@Lizz – I enjoyed reading your story. You should consider keeping one of the fiscal fitness journals in the forums here! Congrats on figuring things out early.
@ People with kids – I don’t have kids (hope to someday), but I grew up in a family where we were three children in 4.5 years. I know my parents stressed about money, and they did things for us that in retrospect I don’t think they should have (ie: paying for the insurance on our cars, not making us save part of our income for college).
But one thing that I think they had right was expecting us to have a part time job (full time in summer) and still maintain superior grades at school. Once we hit the age where we could work they no longer bought us anything like clothes, shoes, gas, movies, entertainment, etc. All through highschool I worked 2-3 jobs at a time and I think it provided me with the knowledge that my time is worth money, and it also taught me a work ethic and time management. Working at Wendy’s and Walmart really puts in perspective why you should work hard to do well in college, and also how lucky you have it if you’re able to go to college!
I wish I had saved more of the money I made back then, but I notice now that the friends of mine who had parents who refused to let them work in high school and college (afraid it would interfere with their studies) went through the stage of spending recklessly with no thought for savings after getting out of college (most are still in that stage…). While I spent my meager $4000/yr income in highschool with abandon, it didn’t really harm me too much in the long run, but I have friends who make more than $50k/yr who can barely make ends meet, yet continue to live a lavish life style and wonder why they can’t get out of debt.
I think it was better for me in the long run to go through that zeroeth stage in highschool than to be in it in my mid-twenties like most of my peers are.
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I think it’s important to emphasize that not everyone goes through all of these stages and not necessarily in a 0,1,2,3,4 order. I can’t really see any points in my life where I could definitively say “I was in stage 1, but now I’m in 2.”
I’ve understood the general concept of compound interest ever since whenever they taught that in school. I’ve had a credit card since high school that I’ve paid off fully every month. I just graduated from college a couple of years ago, so I never really had much of an income/opportunity to save previously. Within 1.5 years of graduating, I paid off my 10 year student loan, and since last fall I’ve been saving for my retirement (maxed out 2008 roth and almost done with 2009).
Throughout all of this, there hasn’t ever really been a change in how I think about money — there have only been changes in my situation and the opportunities available to me. In high school I spent however much money I had. When I was in college with no money, I took out loans. As soon as I was making money, I paid the loans off as quickly as possible. Once that was done, I used the extra money to start saving for retirement. Now that I feel I’m doing well on that front, I’m looking into saving for/buying a house.
I’ve never made any really long-term goals, I’ve always just tried to be responsible with money and use it as best I can depending on my current situation. In a year, I hope to own a house, continue to have no non-mortgage debt, and to save about 25% of my salary for retirement. To me it sounds like I’ll be ready for your third stage, but I can’t really see any transitions in my past that changed my thinking about money.
So I guess my basic point is that I’m not sure everyone falls into the stages you’ve laid out. For someone starting in stage 0, I can see how the stages could be a valuable tool to assess their personal progress. But as you continue to develop your theory, I’d recommend being careful to explain where and when your ideas do or don’t apply.
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Kerry@34, I was the primary earner in our family. I didn’t start out that way, but I sure wound up spending most of my life that way. Your husband is NOT ready to be a parent. He may or may not be ready to be a parent in five years; he sure isn’t ready to be one now. He doesn’t seem to be a fully participating partner now. You are working three jobs, he’s working one and going to school – and YOU had to “convince” him to go! It doesn’t sound as if he’s ready to be a fully participating partner, much less a parent. Take it from me – being the one who works three and four jobs while your partner says “Yeah, I read what you sent,” and then continues to indulge himself can get really old. It can also break a marriage – especially when you stop and think, What, we save $10 a MONTH here and there to have a child, but he can spend $7 in a DAY for breakfast at McDonald’s?? How is this balanced? It sounds as if you’ve absorbed JD’s message and you’re asking how you can convince your fiance to save more. If someone were to present these facts to me and say she was planning to marry this guy soon, I would tell her what I learned: love, by itself, is not enough to keep a marriage together.
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I suppose I’m in the first stage…which is kinda sad, considering how long ago it was that I read Your Money or Your Life! (like three years?) But I think my course in life has fundamentally changed, and while I’m at a stage in my life that is pretty typically dominated by debt in the form of student loans and a mortgage, I doubt I’ll ever be in worse financial shape. I have a financial cushion and such, and I’m just now starting to really take saving seriously with a good rewards checking account. I pay myself first, but not as much as I probably could, and with everything that’s left I don’t pay much attention to where it goes. Not a compulsive shopper, I only get what I need and then I get it from cheap sources or on sale, but I haven’t been paying attention to my cashflow so I keep getting late fees, etc. Not good at all, but I haven’t figured out how to make time to balance everything…it feels like such a HUGE thing to start right now…so I’m definitely operating under the voodoo money management system.
So maybe I’m actually at the .5 stage?
BTW, I’m a new reader, and your blog ROCKS.
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JD, Look, my very first comment!!!
Here is the way I see the stages…
Stage #1: You are paying everyone else.
Stage #2: You are paying yourself.
I’ve always understood where I wanted to go and how to get there, but I always TALKED a big game, and didn’t really walk it. Then one day I realized that every penny I spent that wasn’t part of my plan, was just an impediment to me quitting my job and spending time with my family. Now, I understand that stuff is just stuff, and I know I don’t really need it.
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I’m good with stage 0 and I’m good with stage 1 but for me stage 2 is too broad. I don’t see getting out of stage 2 until my kids are grown and gone. Yet your remarks for stage 3 would indicate I’m in stage 3 because I’d like to think I’ve mastered the fundamentals, every day I ask why, yet I know why I continue to save and yes, all debts are paid.
Currently 39 and always been debt free except the house I’m about to take advantage of the current housing market to upgrade my 3 bedroom, 1 bath, 1400 sq ft house. When I bought it 11 years ago I wasn’t married and had no children. Now with a wife, 3 girls and a boy (all 6 and under) I need to think about bathroom space and other quality of life issues looming. I invest 8% for retirement (I recently decided to cut back from 15% because I got a really good start at age 23 and I need the extra money for a house payment), give 10% to charitable causes and currently under fund college. So here I am just a few years from paying off the house and about to get into another 15 year mortgage commitment. UGH! Ahead of me are the teen years, college bills, weddings, etc. I look forward to every moment! I consider all of this stage 2.
Once my wife returns to work (after the kids are in school) we will use her income to start saving for things like the vacation home, the ski boat, weddings and even putting more into college and retirement. While some or all of these may fall into stage 3 I consider myself to still be in stage 2.
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This is a great idea – I think understanding which stage a person is currently at for money management really helps you to take control of your finances. I think I’m just coming out of the “fumbling in the dark” stage that you describe. I’m living a little bit more frugally, but I don’t exactly have a set budget each month yet, but I’ve paid down my debt and am trying to manage my expenses better by cutting down on unnecessary expenses.
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