Mission Accomplished: Our Shiny New Mortgage Print
Tuesday, 10th March 2009 (by J.D.)This article is about House and Home, Real-Life
We did it! After two months of hemming and hawing, Kris and I finally closed on our mortgage refinance, dropping our rate from 6.25% to 4.96%. Bright and early yesterday morning, we made a trip to the title company, and we signed all of the documents. We were out of there in only half an hour.

How’d we do it so fast? Don’t I advocate reading all contracts before you sign them? Absolutely. So when then the title officer called on Friday, I let her know in advance that I needed to read everything first.
“Thank you for telling me,” she said. “I’ll give you your copy of the documents so that you can read them at home over the weekend.”
And that’s just what I did. It took several hours, but I leafed through all 107 pages, looking for anything alarming. I can’t claim to have understood all of the arcane legalese, but I gave it my best shot (with Google’s help), and I didn’t find anything that raised a red flag.
Because I’d read everything in advance, closing was a breeze. The title officer was amused when she noticed I was making tick marks on a piece of scratch paper. “Are you counting how many times you sign your name?” she asked. I sheepishly admitted that I was. (Over the course of 107 pages, Kris and I signed our names 29 times. We initialed 21 items.)
Now we’re done, however, and we have a new mortgage. Our payments (for principal and interest) have dropped from $1386.60 to $1137.70 — a savings of $248.90 per month. It will take about a year to repay the closing costs, but then the new loan will save us money over the next 29 years. (Well, not actually 29 years. We’ll continue to accelerate our mortgage payments.)
Remember: Saving money on the little things every day is great, but saving money on the big things can make an awesome difference to your budget. You’d have to wash a lot of baggies to save $250 a month!
You can see the first two parts of this series here: from December 19th, When does it make sense to refinance a mortgage?, and from February 3rd, Refinancing made easy: Our story.

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March 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
That’s awesome JD!
You bought a new house and your payments went down - I like it:)
How did that happen? I guess I’m missing out on some of the details.
I laughed when you mentioned the ticks on the scratch piece of paper; I wasn’t laughing at you, but from recognition. I come from an engineering background and my wife calls me the anal-izer from time to time…. it’s all in fun
March 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Ha! Kris calls me Overanalytical Man. It’s my super-power!
March 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Congrats on finally signing everything! What do you plan on doing with your new found monthly savings?
March 10th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
@Studenomics
Have I mentioned I want a new car?
March 10th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Congrats on getting it done - I need to look into this as well.
So you are paying down the mortage in advance? I heard that wasn’t a good idea. (just kidding).
March 10th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
@J.D I think it’s only fair you get that new car now, you worked so hard on saving money on your monthly mortgage payments that Kris owes it to you.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
“then this loan will pay for itself over the next 29 years”
Isn’t this a little exaggeration? You are still paying for the loan (principal & interest)…
March 10th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
JD, what’s your take on using the difference in monthly payments for savings, vs refinancing and keeping your monthly payments the same so that your mortgage will be paid off sooner?
I’ve been looking at ours, and dropping the interest rate about a percent would get us $150/mo cheaper payments, or we’d have an extra 7,000 in equity in the property after 4 years.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Refinancing is in the air.
Do you play with amortization tables in order to see when you will pay off the loan at your current rate of overpayment?
March 10th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
@John
You’re right. You’re right. What I mean is that the costs of taking out the loan will have paid for themselves. I’ll fix it.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Brilliant suggestion to read the contract ahead of time from home….never thought of it, but will sure remember it.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
I am surprised that you went with the 30yr instead of the 15yr. I read the other article explaining your method. If your end plan is to own the home, part of that should include the time line. I understand the 30yr gives you flexibility. Some 30yr have a penalty if you pay it off early. Was any of that in the 120+pg documents?
Congrats on the $250 savings, it will add up to that new car quick!
March 10th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
What great news!
Just wondering, NOT trying to start up the whole prepay mortgage versus investing extravaganza, but does investing still come out better on paper if you have no plans to move from your home, ever?
Sure, big, unforseen circumstances can and do occur, but barring that, my husband and I don’t plan to move from the home we’re building.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
JD, congratulations man, glad you finally got the lower mortgage you were looking for!
-Nate
March 10th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Hi JD, Congratulations on the refinance!
I’m wondering if you have any advice about how much is reasonable to pay in terms of closing costs? It seems like this amount varies a lot among the different mortgage companies, in addition to the point/s they may charge for the refinance?
thanks for any thoughts!
March 10th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
JD — You may have mentioned this elsewhere but how come you refinanced for a 30 year mortgage? Did you consider shrinking the mortgage term or was the monthly payment for a shorter term just too expensive?
When my husband and I refinanced we dropped our 30 year mortgage down to 15 years, we paid off a chunk of principal at the time but our monthly payments are now just a little more than we paid on the original mortgage.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
And just to be paranoid, how do you know that the papers you signed where the same as the ones you read over the weekend?
Just because someone says they are the same does not make it so.
You should have just edited the file you got printed out the 107 pages, inserted some little clause to your liking and made them sign it.
March 10th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Congrats!
I’ve been looking into refinancing myself, but the condo I bought 2 years ago is worth less than the 80% I financed =(
March 10th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
My husband and I have vowed to only purchase homes we can afford on a 15 year loan. Though we have half the size home as our friends, over the same amount of time we have twice the equity. Our home is for sale and now we can afford to step up to a larger home, keep our payments the same, and at a 15 yr mortgage with a large down payment and we own our home 15 years from now.
March 10th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
I never read my mortgage papers before I sign them. There is a 3 day right of rescission for all 1st mortgages. So I read the papers the night I sign. That way I am reading the exact papers that I have signed and have 3 days to back out if the mortgage doesn’t match what I was told.
March 10th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
I believe in the other posts he mentioned that although he took a 30 yr mortgage, they’re planning on keeping the payments the same as what it was before.
But, if something were to happen, they can stop prepaying and use that to instead build his chicken coop or whatnot. Once the crisis has passed, they’ll continue to accelerate their mortgage payments.
March 10th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Congrats on the fiscal improvement, JD!
I was really hoping to take advantage of the stimulus package. It would have dropped our mortgage from 40 yrs at 8.63 to 30 yrs at 5.25, and decreased our monthly payment by a full third. But, since we were unemployed in July and have been working like dogs since to make ends meet, we haven’t missed a payment. And since there is no work in his field, we’ve been working freelance. Not having a W-2, they tell me, disqualifies us. I am NOT a happy camper at all. We really needed the help.
Oh well. Nothing has changed, really. We’ll still pay as long as we can and hope for work.
March 10th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Congrats!!!
And HEY - I wash my baggies! LOL
March 10th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Hello Mini Cooper…
March 10th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Why I took out a 30 year mortgage
Kris and I pay $2000 toward our mortgage every month. We would do this whether we had a 15 year loan or a 30 year loan. So, in essence, the loan term is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the interest rate.
Now it’s true that we could have obtained a better interest rate if we’d gone with a 15 year term, but that would have sacrificed flexibility. What happens if the blog market crashes?
So, we chose to keep the 30 year term, paying a little extra in the long term as a sort of “catastrophe insurance”. Does that make sense? We actually hope to have the home paid off sooner rather than later…
March 10th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Congratulations J.D.! That was a great move.
I noticed today at Penfed’s site that the rate for a 15-year loan is more than a 30-year! (5.25% for 15 v. 5% for 30.) Now this is probably an anomaly, but I found it interesting.
March 10th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Congrats on the new mortgage; it sounds like you did a thorough job venting the paperwork. Enjoy the extra $249 a month.
March 10th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Great post. My cousin has a car loan and has been asking about the economics and approach to refinancing that. Do you have any research or thoughts on that angle?
Keep up the great work,
Rob
March 10th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Hey JD, congrats !!
LOL @ your comment about washing baggies !
March 10th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Are you going to use the extra money you are saving to pay down the mortgage quicker?
March 10th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
JD,
I am currently going through the refinance process myself. For comparison purposes I was wondering what your break even time was or in other words, what were the closing costs associated with the 4.96 rate you receive?.
March 10th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Congrats to you!
I might have missed this, but may I ask what your total closing costs were?
We patiently are looking to do the same. We’re currently at 5.75%, don’t know what we may find that is lower.
..and I’m a baggie washer too!
March 10th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Mike B, I don’t have the docs in front of me, but my recollection is that it will take exactly 10 months to pay off the closing costs. That is, the closing costs were in the neighborhood of $2500.
March 10th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Also, there’s nothing wrong with baggie washing! It just takes longer to save $250 a month doing that than to refinance your home.
March 10th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Hey JD -
Maybe I missed this - but where did you refinance, was there any points, and how much were closing costs?
If I can get. 4.96 on a 30 year, I need to jump on that.
March 10th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
The most minor of quibbles… but something to remember when you refinance is that part of lowering your monthly payment comes from a decreased principal that is once again stretched over 30 years. And depending on how long you’ve had your previous mortgage, that can make a big difference. But my point is that it’s not really a savings “per month” of $250 because you’re not on your original 30 year timeline. You’re on a revised timeline. Now, as you said, what matters it that you’ll still be paying $2000/mo and more will go towards principal now, which is where you catch up on the closing costs, and then start to shorten your timeline to where it is now, and then finally shorten the timeline to be better than your old mortgage.
March 10th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
It is *impossible* to save $250/month washing baggies, unless you spend over $250/month on baggies in the first place.
Also, it can’t really take longer to save any amount of money per month. It takes exactly one month to save $X/month.
March 10th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
@ Jason B.
I noticed that too, but I wasn’t going to say anything. Dropping from 6.25% to 4.96% will save JD ~$226 per month in interest. Actual saving due to adding the closing costs onto the end are a LITTLE lower. And though this will go down every month as his principal is reduced this is an okay estimate for the first year.
This calculation is easier since either way he will be making the same payment. Things get a little fuzzy when the payment adjusts because the new amortization throws off the principal and interest portions to meet the new payoff date.
March 10th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Well darn it J.D., just think of all the baggies you can buy NOW with all that extra money.;)
LOL!
March 10th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Congratulations! My wife and I are actually closing on a refinance mortgage tomorrow to do the same thing. Our payments are going down $175 per month, and we’ll continue paying the same amount we have been to pay off the 30-year mortgage in approximately 21 years.
March 10th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Fantastic! This is one of our goals as well. Congratulations on pulling the trigger and getting it done! ~ Solid Planning
March 10th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
It’s a smart approach JD, choosing the 30 year to be safe, but then paying the mortgage down with extra principal payments. My husband and I ran the numbers and considered the ‘what if’ scenario quite a bit before ultimately deciding on the 15. I think this makes perfect sense, especially considering your current line of work.
March 10th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Congratulations! My wife and I are in the process of doing a refinance ourselves, though we’re going for a shorter term product (allowing us a better rate than longer-term loans would) as we plan to pay off the house in about 4 years.
I did a fun little spreadsheet - and you know I’m a math nerd if I can call a spreadsheet fun - as I was looking at different products and possible interest rates, and we’ll recover our closing costs via interest savings in about a year. Even with our greatly accelerated payment plan, we’ll still save a couple thousand $ in interest by the time all is said and done.
March 10th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Glad to hear you pulled the trigger, nice job shaving off so many percents.
March 10th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Congratulations JD! My wife and I just closed on our own refi on Friday. We went from 6.5% to 5.125% and are now saving over $700 a month. We’ll recoup the closing costs in about 7 months and, lucky for us, the home (apartment) is already worth 2x what we paid for it 3 years ago (but who knows if that will be true next month).
Again, congratulations!
March 10th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
JD - my husband wants to refinance our place. We’d drop almost 2% but we also want to sell next year. Is it worth it to refinance? What does that do to our FICO score? Anything? Just looking for thoughts as to how to proceed.
Congratulations on your job well done!
March 10th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
@Leslie (#45)
It might be worth it to refinance. The only way you’ll know for sure is to run the numbers. You’ll need to account for closing costs, etc. In our case, we’d break even on the refinance if we stayed in this house one more year. Your situation might be different.
March 11th, 2009 at 4:17 am
Wow, 4.96%! That’s a good deal if the costs worked out.
Also, it’s good to hear someone reading the entire mortgage document. I can’t believe people don’t when this is going to be the largest single expenditure in most people’s lives.
March 11th, 2009 at 5:02 am
CONGRATS! We’re currently finishing up some home renovations so that our house will appraise well (we’ve got a bathroom gutted right now which would surely hurt). After we’ve finished, we are definitely going to try our hardest to refinance to a lower rate. I think we might be able to knock almost 2% off of our current rate, which will save us about $300-$400 a month!
March 11th, 2009 at 5:32 am
Hahaha “You’d have to wash a lot of baggies to save $250 a month.” TRUE!
We’re in the process of overhauling our phone/internet/cable packages for a total savings of $50/month. It’s not $250 but still more than washing out a baggie
March 11th, 2009 at 5:37 am
Thank you for advocating reading all signed documents and putting your money where your mouth is and really doing it! A shining example of what everyone ought to do.
March 11th, 2009 at 7:02 am
Congrats on a successful refinance!
My only question is: Why did it take them 2 months?!?!
March 11th, 2009 at 7:35 am
Your form shows an interest rate of 5.047%, not 4.96%. Explain the difference please? (i.e., Did you roll the refi costs into the loan, or, was the difference in the rate the, ahem, commission the mortgage issuer charged on top of fees, or what?) The difference between these interest rates equals a $17,487 difference in cost on a $201,000 loan unless my math is bad.
March 11th, 2009 at 7:46 am
@Paul (#53)
This is how all mortgages work, isn’t it? I think all four mortgages we’ve ever taken out have been the same way. We might borrow at a 6% rate, but the truth in lending statement will say 6.08% (or something like that).
My understanding is that this reflects monthly compounding. That is, the interest rate on the loan may be 6%, but when compounding is considered, it’s 6.08% (or whatever) annualized.
This is the same thing as annual percentage yield at your bank. ING Direct may give you 1.65% APY on your deposits, but your actual interest rate is probably something like 1.62%. The difference is a result of compounding. Same idea here.
So, the interest rate and the APR are different. Does that make sense?
March 11th, 2009 at 8:07 am
We are supposed to close on our refi this afternoon. I hope it goes as well as yours. We are dropping our rate from 6.25% to 5% flat, with fees under $2K. It has been remarkably easy on our end. Should save us $200 a month, we will make our money back in under a year. Thanks for prompting us to refi JD. Although Amerisave was never the way to go for us, they wanted $6k in fees.
March 11th, 2009 at 9:37 am
We have saved $300/month by moving from our 1630 sq ft rental in Seattle to our 2324 sq ft rental in Portland. I have not owned a house since 2002, and I may never own one again — though I admit to fantasizing about owning this one, with its half-acre of fruit trees, blueberries, rhodondendrons, roses, vegetable garden, herb garden, and grape arbor! But then I think that’s just a left-over impulse, and really I no more want to own a house than I want to own any other kind of “stuff”.
March 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Congrats on your refi!
We’d been idly talking about refinancing last year (because we’d made some silly decisions and were about 18 months from our ARM shifting out of its fixed-rate stage) but with the housing market going down the drain, we were kinda terrified about even attempting it. Thanks to your post in December, I actually got the ball rolling, and closed on our new loan last week. *Such* a relief to go from an interest-only ARM (I know, I know) to a 30-year fixed rate… and the best part is that with the lower rate, our fully-amortized payments are going to be the same as our interest-only used to be!
@DanL: 2 months seems like a long time, and maybe JD’s actual processing took less time, but for comparison’s sake, it took us nearly 2.5 months to get everything taken care of. I’d asked a different bank’s mortgage department how long their processing was taking these days, so I’d know whether I had reason to be grumpy, and learned that they were often taking 60-90 days to do all the underwriting. Sounds like there’s been a tremendous amount of people looking to refi and of course, the banks are doing a *lot* more vetting of applications than they used to.
March 11th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Beware the temptation of lowered payments. Remember, refinancing to a new loan makes the total length of time you are debt LONGER and may cost more in interest. (For instance, if you are currently 5 years into a 30 year loan and refi to another 30 year loan, you make payments for 35 years.)
It is not intuitively obvious if you save money overall. An easy to use calculator that figures if it is worthwhile to refinance is here:
http://www.sample.getsyourloan.com/samplemortgagebroker/id4.html
I ran JD’s numbers, and it came out that he will actually spend $36,500 MORE in interest over the life of this loan than if he had stayed with the old loan. However, because he pays extra principal each month by making even $2000 payments, it is more complicated than that and he make actually come out ahead. JD, did you do all this math?
Most folks don’t have the discipline to keep paying the extra and of course, your mileage may vary.
March 11th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I’m surprised. For the sake of the website, I’d of thought for sure you’d refinance for 15 years. Starting your 30 years over is no way to get rich slowly.
If you were affording your previous mortgage you prob could’ve kept the payments near the same going to a 15. Not only that, but you’ve encouraged hundreds of readers to do similar, instead of saving thousands dropping to a 15 year mortgage.
Think of the articles you could’ve written on the money you saved. I think you should write one on what you would’ve saved had you done that.
And if the Blog bubble pops, you can always go back to the box factory.
Respectfully, Ian
March 11th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
@Ian (#59)
Did you even read any of the supporting documentation about my decision? I provided links to past info on this topic, and even mentioned some of my reasoning in comments in this thread. This comment is particularly relevant.
I’m well aware that a 15-year mortgage offers lower costs. Kris and I don’t plan to have our mortgage that long, though. We talked about this at length, and both agreed that a 30-year loan gave us greater peace of mind. We don’t plan to hold it that long, but who knows?
But I agree: I should do a post in which I run the numbers to compare. Maybe for tomorrow afternoon?
March 11th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
JD said,
“Ha! Kris calls me Overanalytical Man. It’s my super-power! :)”
It’s one of mine too
March 11th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
@JD #60
I did read your comments.
Honestly, I have received a lot of my good finance practices from this website and your recommendations. This one just seems contrary to that.
That being said, I have the highest respect for you and your sight. It’s been tremendously helpful for me and many others. I hope you don’t take this critique personally.
Thanks, Ian
March 11th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
I was just confused, Ian. I thought I had made it clear why we chose the 30 year mortgage. There are many people who choose a 30 year when they could choose a 15 year. (Some people choose a 30 year when they could pay the loan off!) There’s no one right answer on this. In our case, the peace of mind was paramount, so that’s the direction we went.
March 11th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Well, I think there’s a psychological factor in taking more time than you need to pay something off.
Leaving aside mortgages for a moment, I just bought a used car. I could’ve financed it for any number of months at similar rates, but I chose 36 (and considered less). Sure there is a “safety cushion” of more time. But I prefer the “safety cushion” of less money spent.
I imagine nearly everyone says to themselves that they can pay it off early if they want when they are financing something. And I will bet that almost all of them don’t.
Now there are people who are highly disciplined and do just that, no question. I’m sure you are one of them.
But, all payments being equal I’d have gone with a 15-year and paid extra on that!
Unfortunately, I’ve been stuck with a 5% 30-year from the start.
Lastly, my mortgage seems the biggest obstacle to retirement than anything. Pay off that house and I can remove my nose from the grindstone.
I’m not able to do it quite yet, but it’s a financial goal to pay it off early myself.
Cheers, Ian
March 11th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
@Paul (53): The Truth-in-Lending Act requires the lender to include certain closing costs when calculating the APR. The idea is that when shopping around for a mortgage, getting some quotes that have a lower interest rate but require points v. a higher rate with no points, you can use the APRs to compare apples to apples.
The costs will be included in the APR even if you do not roll them into the loan.
March 11th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
JD,
We too, opted for the 30-year for the exact same reason you and Kris did–for the breathing room that we would need should we experience a gap in income. We bought a home we could afford on 1 salary and we have been paying an extra $100 toward the principal every month.
The link to Givens, Mortgage Prepayment Made Easy, was helpful and I’m wondering if we couldn’t do that instead of the flat $100.
Love the site. Have been reading for months, first time posting a comment. Thanks.
March 11th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
We recently considered doing this. The penalty is about 6 months of interest. However, I worked out what we would save on the entire mortgage if we instead put that amount down as a balloon payment. After 5 years, we will have saved the amount that the refinancing would have saved and, after 15 years, we’ll have saved more than triple that amount while reducing the length of the mortgage.
I suppose breathing room might be worthwhile, though, so I haven’t walked away completely.
March 12th, 2009 at 4:08 am
I understand perfectly the psycological and financial benefits of paying of your mortgage early. I’d love to do it.
The “why not?” for me is mostly about life-phases - a topic I’d love to see discussed more here. I’ts natural to be earning more and more throghout your 20’s, 30’s and so on - until retirement, when your income decreases.
But it is also natural to have bigger needs in the 20’s and thirties. We are starting a family now, and while we would truly love to pay off our mortgage, save and invest (and we do) - we would also love to have a house that’s suitable for kids, a car, furniture and all this. We are establishing all these things these years.
And you can’t do it all - can you? So one of the main reasons people don’t pay off their mortgages (and in some cases get into debt, and don’t save for retirement in the early years and so on) is that they are in a life phase with high spending needs (compared to the rest of your life) and low income (compared to later in your working years).
We are doing a Total Money Makeover (Ramsey style) - we are. But sometimes I wonder if it’s worth it to put all this financial effort into it these years with kids coming and so on. Because now is a time when we are starting a family.
So I can understand why not.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:55 am
JD,
What information did you get from Google? Did you have general questions about the definition of some terms or words or was it more for amortization tables or something similar?
-Brandon
March 15th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Hi JD,
We did exactly the same - refi on almost an identical amount. But, we landed a 4.75% interest rate. Talk about excited. We were able to dump the two notes we had on this house. One of them would have come due in a few years with a balloon of 10% of something more hideous. We knew we’d pay that off no matter what but the refi did so much more for us.
Thankfully our rental property has just sold. We close in a week. We’ll take some of the funds and pre-pay a years’ worth of payments while making the normal monthly note. This is to protect against anything catastrophic. The bulk of the proceeds of the sale will go towards the principal of the new refi note. The goal is that we’ll have this note paid off in 10 years.
The last credit card will be paid off next month and we’ll only owe on the house. I’ve worked my whole life to get here. I’m 54 and extremely proud of where we have positioned ourselves. Such blessings we have. Truly a thank you Jesus moment for us.
We still live as if it were pay check to pay check and invest the balance.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:09 am
Why didn’t you pay 1 point to get your rate a little lower? I thought paying 1 point up front was a good way to save you money in the long run. Did you just not have the extra $ to pay the point, or is there a particular reason why you chose not to?