I called my little brother yesterday. He lost his home to foreclosure last fall, and things have only continued to get worse. He and his wife are doing the best they can, but they feel overwhelmed.
“What’s the latest?” I asked. Tony gave me an update. We talked about his problems with insurance, and with the bank, and with the debt settlement service. We talked about his options for the future.
“All things considered, I guess we’re doing okay,” Tony said. “But to be honest, we’ve thought about relocating to Kansas.”
“Kansas?” I said. “Why Kansas?”
“I was at a trade show in Kansas a couple of months ago,” Tony said. “And I got to talking with a woman who does something with economic development in Osage County. Apparently you can get all sorts of financial help for starting a business there. Plus things are less expensive in Kansas.”
Tony and I laughed about the notion of his family relocating to the heartland. There’s nothing wrong with Kansas, but it seems like such a non-sequitur. Our family has deep roots here in Oregon. We have no relationship to Kansas.
Later, though, I realized that it might make sense for Tony to move. Because he sells a product across the United States, his income is not tied to where he lives. If he moved from Bend, Oregon — which has a high cost-of-living — to someplace less expensive, it could make a great difference to his financial situation. (The big question, of course, is whether his quality of life would change.)
Just for kicks, I ran some numbers through the Bankrate cost-of-living comparison calculator. This is one of my favorite financial calculators. I love to play with the numbers, trying to find expensive places to live (San Francisco! New York!) and cheap places to live (Waco, Texas! Salina, Kansas!) Portland is sort of in the middle. Guessing at Tony’s salary, it looks like he could save significantly by moving from Bend to Osage County:
Cost of living is one of those factors that few people consider, but which can have a huge impact on the family budget. When you have access to affordable housing, and when food, clothing, and health care costs are manageable, it’s easier to meet your financial goals. Sometimes it’s possible to make choices that keep costs low and allow you to stay where you are. But in other cases, it can make sense to relocate to a region with a lower cost of living.
I admit that over the past few years, I’ve been fascinated by the stories of towns in Kansas and North Dakota offering free land and other incentives to lure new residents. Coupled with low costs of living, these locations really appeal to me. “Wouldn’t you like to live in northwest North Dakota?” I asked Kris recently. She gave me The Look.
I guess we’ll stay in Portland for now.
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Great post. We spent two years in WV and were shocked at how much money were able to save by living in the sticks. It is not for everyone, but if you are willing to relocate, moving somewhere cheap is a great idea! Especially in this economy. The only downside is that sometimes in low cost areas, jobs are also low paying. Of course if you work from home or can telecommute this is a great opportunity.
Toni
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We lived just up the road from your brother, in Sisters. It was an amazing place and the closest to “home” I’ve ever felt. But, oh, the cost of living was horrendous. We’re in a better place financially now, but what we gained in fiscal comfort we are suffering in loss of humanity. People here think the ground is for littering on and cigarette butts are knee deep on the corners.
I miss the “life” in the Pacific Northwest, the trees, clean air and people who care about their surroundings. Some things can’t be bought.
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A guy on Making Light recently bought a house in Indiana, sight unseen, for eight thousand dollars. If it doesn’t work for his family, he figures he can sell it for about the same– enough people have been commenting on his house discovery saga in the most recent open thread.
Ohio has a few science fiction writers, not least because it can be cheap. Talking with Tobias Buckell once, he said that he had a friend who lamented that he couldn’t take time to write… and said friend lived in a $400k house. Toby told him to sell the house, move to Ohio, buy a $100k house, and live off the rest of the money while writing.
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It seems very odd to me to even consider it based on some rumors he heard from a stranger.
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Imagine that… when the government rewards people for starting a business and has less restrictions, people succeed…
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Bank Rate’s home price of $350K could be a little outdated for Bend. The Bend Bulletin reported $230K in February.
http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090211/BIZ0102/902110365
Like most of the population, I moved to Bend 3 years ago. We made the decision to move out here, from suburban Chicago, for less income and have been working on reducing our expenses over the last 3 years. We rented here until last October and then bought a home, after the market went down (and it is still going down). The entertainment is cheaper here than in Chicago, if you like that sort of thing. We’re about ready to head for one of our favorite hiking trails.
I really enjoy your blog–thanks for writing it. I wish the best of luck to your brother and his family.
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We moved from the Northwest (Seattle) for this reason and are doing better financially, but god how I miss the area! There is not a day that goes by that I don’t think about going back.
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Why stop at Kansas? I am convinced I can live like a king in Ethiopia for less than around USD$300/month, plus the weather is much nicer (13 months of sunshine, baby!). There are always great deals on real estate in Latin America, and probably Asia, and the dollar is strong compared to everywhere. Not sure about jobs in those areas, you can take an internet business anywhere, get a job with NGO, or you can teach English anywhere. And arguably if you want real money in getting involved with a new business in a booming economy, the places to be are China & India.
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Sometimes I can’t tell if Frugal Bachelor is being sarcastic or serious.
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Kansas is not all that bad, save maybe for the windspeed come winter, brrrr. The metropolitain areas on the Kansas side of Kansas City, Johnson County has excellent home values and inventory. Great proximity to all the typical city attaractions including that major airport to travel from.
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I grew up in Indiana, but I moved to the Northeast as an adult, and I could never leave here now. Anyone thinking of relocating should carefully consider the cultural differences and lifestyle changes. Sure, a house is a lot cheaper in Indiana, but you have to drive *everywhere* and plan on going to the big-box stores on the edge of town for pretty much every purchase. My sister was shocked to discover that her health insurance coverage was not as good (and the quality of health care was much lower). I love living in a small, walkable city with good transit connections and only having one car. I also love being close enough to a big city to have all those amenities at my fingertips.
Also, consider that wages may very well be lower in your new home and the cost of ordinary things like gas and groceries may be higher. Here in the Northeast we get killed on rent and home prices but most other things are pretty reasonable; the last time I visited my mother-in-law in Arkansas, she was paying a buck more a gallon for milk than I was. And if you don’t like it, and want to bail out, you’ll likely be selling your home in the heartland for a lot less than the price of a new place on either coast.
The only reason to live in a place is because you love it. Cheap housing will never make you as happy as good friends, a great job, or a beautiful view. Of course, if all these things co-exist in the same place—consider yourself blessed!
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This is a great topic, I can’t wait to read all the responses. Normally throughout history people lived where they could find work. The normal rules of economics more or less dictated that people would choose to locate themselves (assuming they were free to do so) in the area where the difference between their earnings and expenses would be greatest, thus yielding the most financial benefit. Obviously, it was never QUITE that easy because of family ties, fear, etc., but the point is that that was the general goal or at least the sensible idea. In fact, our country was the great embodiment of this idea for hundreds of years. If you were fed up with your lot in Europe, save up passage for the New World. If you were barely making it on the crowded east coast, head out west to your own homestead where on 40 acres anyone with a strong back can live off the sweat off his brow.
This mentality has drastically changed recently, very recently in a historic perspective, within the past generation certainly. Many people in our society, most often the elite by educational standards, are consciously choosing to give up overall financial independence in order to live in a more expensive area—usually the major cities. Their parents might have chosen to commute to the cities from the suburbs, and justified the higher cost of real estate on Long Island vs. Kansas because, yes, they in fact could make more money in New York. But their children are going the next step, and ignoring the math. Even presented with what opportunities await them elsewhere, they will many times choose the more expensive city for reasons that defy economics.
I’m not developing this theory purely from anecdotal evidence, although for anyone who is interested I have PLENTY of stories from the choices and situations of my late-20’s college classmates. More to the point, there is more and more concrete evidence emerging from various professions where it is now commonly accepted for the going salaries of the exact same job to be significantly HIGHER in North Dakota than in Washington, D.C. My brother is a physician, and we have discussed this recently. According to the economics of it, there are many doctors who would rather work in Georgetown (Washington, D.C.) for $125,000 than North Dakota for $300,000 (exact same specialty).
Many of the well educated, creative types who read this blog are going to argue “That’s not all that surprising. I’d rather live in Georgetown too. I’m surrounded by culture. I have theater, arts. I NEED that stimulation in order to be an artist.”
Perhaps that’s true; I’m not an artist, so I can’t say for sure. But realistically, does anyone need to be located in a cultural epicenter like that for the stimulation? Do you really need to see the original painting hanging in a museum or can a google search and a good printer provide you all the details you need? Doesn’t Amazon deliver anywhere in the country. You can quite cheaply have any book ever published delivered to your door (with very few exceptions, I’m sure). Netflix delivers foreign films. Even for the things that you need to see in person, I know from experience that a Priceline hotel in Manhattan and half price tickets to Broadway are well within reach for someone with enough savings margin to enjoy regularly enough. In truth, based on the economics of it, my wife and I can actually enjoy, through Amtrak, Priceline, and TKTS more Broadway plays living in a formerly rural part of the South than I could if I lived within walking distance to Broadway.
Of course, the final argument is the fellow people. Some want to be constantly surrounded by a certain type of like-minded, similarly educated fellow citizen. If you’re an artistic type you might think this is necessary. But I can’t help but think of those writers, for example, who over the past couple centuries have authored the greatest works of literature. Did not most of them all ideally seek the peace and solitude of the country to pen their masterpieces. It seems like only now, however, those who aspire to produce similar works demand the exact opposite setting in which to do so. But this might be an oversimplification.
In conclusion, there are certainly many people for whom the expensive city is absolutely necessary for their careers. My point, however, is that there are many others who erroneously think this applies to them because they want to live a certain lifestyle (Carrie Bradshaw’s perhaps). And they delude themselves with certain self justifications outlined above, and they give up a lifetime’s worth of financial independence and prosperity in the exchange.
But, honestly J.D., Kansas? I wouldn’t go there at gunpoint.
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Even if Frugal Bachelor is being sarcastic, his points should not be lost entirely — see my post on Peace Corps that I just added to your previous post: (http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/03/13/finding-a-good-job-in-a-bad-economy/).
Something to consider for those without kids or significant debt; and the benefits are way beyond financial.
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The problem with moving to a less expensive part of the country is that, if home prices and rents rise while you are gone, it is extremely difficult to get back in. It’s possible to save like crazy, of course, or to move into a much smaller place or to rent when you used to own. But I know many people who moved from Massachusetts to New Hampshire and others who moved from Illinois to Wisconsin. Quite a few feel miserable and trapped. NH and WI are great places to live, but often people want to be closer to the family and friends they had when they were young.
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Sometimes cost of living can be misleading. I moved to Saskatoon, Canada with a famously low cost of living from Vancouver, Canada with a famously high one, and have found it costs more to live here in many ways. For example it is almost impossible to live here without a car, but in Vancouver I took the bus everywhere. Food, clothing, etc. are also more expensive as they need to be shipped farther. However, moving here has been a great move for me professionally and financially.
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FrugalBachelor;
I’ve worked with “government contractors” that did EXACTLY what you were talking about. I can’t say any more.
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“The problem with moving to a less expensive part of the country is that, if home prices and rents rise while you are gone, it is extremely difficult to get back in…I know many people who moved from Massachusetts to New Hampshire and others who moved from Illinois to Wisconsin.”
@KM,
Tell them to wait a few more months. They’ll get back in.
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My parents live in Kansas and have a vacation home in Oregon. They more or less flee to Oregon whenever their schedule permits. Consider this as a warning to your brother.
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A lot of it comes down to what you like to do in your free time, and how established your roots are in a particular area.
I’ve lived in large expensive cities and small cheap towns, and they each have their advantages. There are more things to do in a large city, but smaller towns tend to be friendlier and much less expensive. If you generally spend most of your time at home or in your local community, living in a small town is pefectly enjoyable. If you are the type that enjoys the latest trendy restaurant, night club, or entertainment, a small town will be stifling.
The big draw back to small towns is that the wages are usually quite a bit less. I’m fortunate to have a job that pays well while still allowing me to live in a cheap rural community. I’m more of a stay at home type, so, for me, it is ideal.
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Don’t forget taxes. I moved from Illinois to Iowa and the states taxes went from 3% to 9%! A lot of more rural states have higher taxes since they can’t tax commerce and business so much.
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That comparison was interesting, but when I plugged in my metro area– Columbus, Ohio– bankrate.com puts our house prices at $294,598.00. Wow. I strongly suspect that’s an Average value.
Our median homeprice in 2007 was $164,291. That’s a significant difference, and from living here, I can say much more accurate. (Our house is worth about 120K, 1500 square feet, 3 bedrooms, decent enough neighborhood, etc.)
So I’d definitely check bankrate, but do some research in your area to get a better picture. $294K in Columbus Metro means–right now–a 3300 square foot house with 4 bedrooms and 3 baths on a wooded ravine cul-de-sac in a suburb with excellent schools.
That is not quite “average.”
But comparing apples to apples, if the same holds true in other areas, the site is useful. I could maintain my standard of living in your area, JD, if I earned about 20 percent more annually. I’m sure Portland is lovely, but I don’t want to work that hard.
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Wow, I did not know there was a cost-of-living calculator on the internet to figure out a general estimate! Great find and excellent post! Thanks!
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I love cost of living comparison calculators. My brother moved from Bellingham, WA to Boston (Maynard) MA about 10 years ago. What a culture shock, eh? He makes plenty of money and is very secure, so that was ok. THEN he got a new job in the San Francisco Bay area. COL even higher than Boston! Thank goodness his work can support that.
I currently live in Bullhead City, AZ, where the cost of living is low. But oh, how I want to move back to the Pacific Northwest.
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I just moved from Memphis, which is one of the cheaper large cities in this country. However as we found out the numbers are skewed. Living in Memphis is cheap…unless you want to be safe. We payed dearly for housing in a nice, “safe” neighborhood. We also paid for added neighborhood security patrols, an alarm system, and the cost of beefing up the locks and steel exterior doors on our doors and windows. It worked, our home was never robbed in the 8.5 years we lived there, wish I could say the same about our cars. But everything there was more expensive – insurance, taxes, private schools (cause the public ones were horrendous) – and most of that was due to crime. If you wanted to live in the city you had to pay for it. I loved living in that city, but having seen what else is out there I’ll never return.
We moved to a small city in NC (about 250k) and we got 2.5 times as much house with 10 times as much land only 3 miles from the city center and our taxes are less (percentage wise) and the cost was only $150k more than we were paying for our townhouse on a zero lot in Memphis. We put in a security system – mainly for fire protection – and we’ll probably beef up some of the door locks, but nothing like Memphis. My neighbor laughed when I told him what we planned on doing – he said not to spend too much cause it would be a waste. But the main thing is here in this smaller city housing values aren’t widely different due to the safety of the neighborhood – generally every neighborhood is safe and therefore housing costs don’t vary dramatically throughout the city like they did in Memphis.
So we’ve sacrificed quite a few big city amenities, but we have a safer, cheaper home and much better jobs. We’re happier. Not only are we making more money, but the money is being better spent.
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Wow, people are willing to do so much in the name of protecting their ability to accumulate All Mighty STUFF, live in homes that are three times bigger than they need, and structure their lives around getting free stuff from the government. I’ve always lived exactly where I want to live and where will make me happiest, which is mostly the most expensive places out there (DC, SF, LA, London). I’d take being near my friends and family and in a place I love any day over the ability to buy more crap and own a bigger house. Owning less junk, owning a 15-year old car, and living in a tiny apartment are totally worth the trade-off.
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I love Bankrate. So many cool tools there.
I think the financial analysis has to be based on lifestyle. There is such a lifestyle difference between different towns that can have a huge financial impact.
For example, I live in a big city with a good transit system and tons of cultural opportunities. As a result, 1) I don’t have a car and 2) I only need a small condo because I go out a lot. If I were to move to a smaller city, I might need to get a car and I might want a bigger home because I’d spend more time there. So maybe the cost of living would be a wash.
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As a person who is proud to live in “small town” Kansas I would have to agree with the people who say that money is not everything. It depends on what is important to you. Our cost of living is much less because as has been stated most of our wages are less. Our taxes can be HIGH depending on which county you live in. Our education system is ranked among the highest in the nation. And as a rule our work ethic is unsurpassed.
However community theater and school activities are our sports and art. Were I live (not where your brother has looked at) it is 250 miles to anything bigger and most of that is what you would call small. To me it is nothing to drive 5 hours to Wichita to the garden show. People drive 5 hours to Colorado Springs to do their school shopping. We like that because we get to eat at more than 3 restaurants and see and do other things. Occasionally I miss those things so I take a trip enjoy them and then gladly come home to the place I love.
If you brother is the type of person who is willing to move into a community, find things to be involved in and give of himself he could be so busy he catches himself coming and going like the rest of us. If however he is the kind that likes to remain anonymous then he might want to reconsider Kansas. Any school aged child can tell you, few things are anonymous in this part of the country.
My daughter is currently looking to move to the northwest because what you have appeals to her. We have beauty but one must look harder to find it. I love cities but my husband would be incredibly hard to live with anyplace larger than where we are.
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We are going to be relocating from the SF Bay Area for Portland mostly because the lower cost of living and the fact that we will be able to maintain the quality of life thats important to us: no extreme weather, walkable neighborhoods, good public transportation, green city, tons of independent shops and restaurants, great culinary scene, etc. We wouldn’t go to a place where we know we would be unhappy just to save a few bucks though. Its not worth it.
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KF, that is a somewhat arrogant post. Clearly you like living in urban areas – that’s perfectly fine. Often living in expensive areas means exactly what you said – living in much smaller spaces, (perhaps) having much less stuff. However, the decision not to live in a city is clearly not based just on living “in homes that are three times bigger than they need and getting free stuff from the government.” I live just outside of Boston, and it is still a bit too busy for me. I grew up in a more rural neighborhood, and that is where I aspire to live in the future. I’d like to have a garden, a small house of my own to take care of (rather than lousy landlords who opt out of larger regular maintenance), a dog. It’s not accumulating “All Mighty STUFF,” it’s a difference of opinion about what is important in life. So get off your high horse and recognize that there are valid options out there other than your own.
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I live in Prince George, BC Canada. We’re in a small city about an 8 hour drive north of Vancouver, and our cost of living is incredibly lower! It allows me to be a stay at home mum to our four, and to live in a much larger home, with lots of back garden for playing and growing fresh food. Even though we’re a bit away from it all here, the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages for us.
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I don’t know, J.D., Bend is so beautiful! It would be hard for me to make the move to Kansas (not that Kansas doesn’t have its’ share of nice areas).
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-when the government rewards people for starting a business and has less restrictions, people succeed…-
Well, um, you don’t really know that from this! He’s considering it and would have to determine if he really can do his job as well from there as his current home. Often those sorts of incentives are put in to attract people to an area that’s hurting in terms of having enough business/people or is having problems with businesses and people flowing out.
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That was a happy calculator for us here in Pittsburgh. Only 4-5% higher than Salina Kansas AND we have all those things that people mentioned missing in smaller, more out of the way locations — museums, music, art, artists, stores, public transportation, accessible nature, universities, plenty of high-quality health care, etc.
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JD:
If your brother can at all swing it, he might want to go on a trip to check out where he’s planning to relocate to in Kansas.
If it’s in or near Kansas City, then it will probably work out alright for him. If he’s looking at a more rural setting in the more western part of the state, he needs to factor in something important.
There’s no easy way to say this. In small town Kansas (small town heartland USA), he’s liable to encounter a certain — insularness of attitude. Meaning, less acceptance of outsiders or just anybody not living life the way “we do things around here”.
Which isn’t to say there aren’t nice people in Kansas. But he better be prepared that small-town Kansas won’t be Portland. If he’s conservative, church-going, your general white-bread married w/children type he should do fine (not to say everybody in Kansas is those things, but it’s more the norm) but if he’s at all used to an “anything goes” sort of place he needs to check out where he’d be living and make sure he’s ok with that.
We lived in Kansas for 3 years when I was young and I wouldn’t move there again for all the tea in China. I had occasion to drive through it a few years ago and that just reinforced my feeling that Kansas wasn’t the place for me. Kansas City is generally OK, but the rural parts — not for me.
My locale? Denver, CO
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We actually considered a move from Las Vegas, NV (where the cost of living skyrocketed over the past few years) to Lincoln, NE where a friend of my husband’s had a potential job for him. Unfortunately, I literally started to hyperventilate at the thought of being so far from the Pacific. And my husband and I both have very large families that we would (mostly) miss. In the end, we decided to stay put for now as Lincoln didn’t feel like a good fit for us. The nice thing was it opened our eyes to the possibility of moving to a different pace of life. We are still thinking about ways to make our income less contingent on where we live and reducing expenses as much as possible. We’ll see how it goes!
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I think there’s also more to consider than just cost of living. What about job opportunities, changes to network? Environment? Entertainment? Things to do? etc etc.
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It sounds like your brother needs to read our series: 25 ways to save money in small towns and rural areas: http://www.engineeradebtfreelife.com/2009/03/25-ways-to-save-money-and-bargain-shop_13.html
We moved from Dallas to rural Kansas, and the cost of living is NOT less in rural Kansas, no matter what any cost of living calculators may say. Housing is cheaper and daycare is cheaper, but there is tax on food, cars, state income tax, property tax on vehicles, lots of things that really add up. We were surprised to find out how expensive things really are here.
I’ve frequently been to these places mentioned in this post – Salina, Osage Co, Topeka, etc. If anyone wants more info about them, or what it’s like to live in Kansas, feel free to contact me.
The people are great, and small town life is wonderful. But lower cost of living? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, life is good in Kansas.
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For those willing to handle the trade-offs, you can find a sort of sweet spot between cost of living and cultural opportunity. I (reluctantly) moved to St. Louis, MO from Chicago, IL almost four years ago, and while I do miss Chicago quite a bit, I will say there are a lot of amazing arts and cultural offerings in St. Louis — and cost of living is WAY less. People from big cities and/or the coast who assume that “flyerover country” is full of Wal-marts or something are missing out. In St. Louis we have amazing museums, music scenes, culinary options, and other things that I loved about larger urban life–without some of the hassles like bad traffic and high rents.
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My family moved from the urban South to rural Colorado toward the end of the dotcom bust, when my husband had gone two years without steady work.
It’s… different. Lacks can also be opportunities. I got a job at the public library with exactly zero experience – something I could NEVER have done in the city – worked my way through my undergrad, and am getting ready to start grad school.
The town I live in is a mile and a half square; I walk everywhere.
There are lacking amenities, for certain. Getting involved in trying to bring some of them to town (my current project is a farmer’s market) have given me opportunities to make friends and participate in local politics. Others I just do without; there are fewer choices for fast food and cheap non-essentials, so less temptation to spend money on junk. (When I go into the local variety store, I may buy ONE thing I didn’t intend to buy when I walked in. Try that at Wal-mart!)
I live within a thirty-minute drive of three state parks, a national park, two national forests, and a handful of BLM recreation areas. The county just got a grant for developing nature trails and green corridors, so that’s coming in the next couple of years.
There are certainly things I miss terribly, and I’ve known people who moved here from urban areas and were utterly miserable. But there are advantages beyond the cost of living too, and some of the ones I treasure the most now are the ones I least would have anticipated.
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I would lose so much by moving to Kansas that it wouldn’t be worth it, even for twice the money.
I currently live just outside of San Francisco. All my friends live here. My family lives about an hour’s drive away. Could I make new friends in Kansas? Sure, but being that I’m married and not going to school or something, it’d take a *lot* longer than it used to.
What about my family? My parents and brother, and my wife’s family are mostly located in California. My children (who I don’t yet have, but will) would grow up without knowing their grandparents or their aunts and uncles.
My wife’s sister moved to Arizona from California and has found that while a dollar *does* go farther there, it hasn’t helped. Her husband lost his job in Arizona, and if you’re out of work, it doesn’t matter where you are, you’re going to end up getting foreclosed on eventually. And on top of that, now she can’t do things like come to weddings and holidays and family events. She used to be able to drive to them, but she can’t afford to fly.
The weather would be horrible half the year. I’d be stuck inside all winter with no real ability to do anything outside. I couldn’t even go skiing, there aren’t any mountains in Kansas.
I’d save money on my boat, too, as there wouldn’t be much of a reason to keep a sailboat in Kansas. Surfing would be out, as well.
I’ve pretty much listed all my favorite things in the world here, and I would lose them all by moving somewhere like Kansas. The money would, by far, not be worth it. I’d rather live in a cheap apartment in a bad neighborhood here than a giant mansion in Kansas.
This isn’t meant to be a rail against Kansas, this is a warning against moving away from everything you love for financial gain, and that it might (very probably) not be worth it. If I currently lived in Kansas, and all my family and my wife’s family, and our friends were there, California wouldn’t seem worth moving to just for the nice weather, either.
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Jen @ 33
I am from Pittsburgh as well and will attest to its cultural and educational opportunities. What made me move was the lack of opportunity for career progression. I moved in 2005 to Dallas and traded a 10 percent COL increase for a 50 percent raise. The math just made too much sense. Yes I miss it every day and wish I was there right now but everyone’s individual situation needs to dictate where the end up. And besides I can always move back someday.
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Another thing to consider is the public schools, for those of you who have children. We bought in an affordable bedroom-community city in a mainly rural county – 60% of the public school children are on free/reduced lunch. My DH commutes and I work for the local G. 70% of the tax base for the county is agricultural.
Both our children are ESE Gifted, so the ‘rules’ don’t apply to us – we can attend any public school in the county (and even a few out of county), no waitlist, and we knew that when we moved here. The local private schools are a joke – only a GED is required of teachers – no certification, no CEUs. A hair dresser has more training than a private school teacher in our state. The private school nurse might be the only person in the building with a degree.
We get a lot of folks moving in from ‘up north’ and they buy without checking into the school system (crazy, right?). They freak out when they find out we don’t have neighborhood schools, that their children may be bused cross county to make the right mix and will not get into the IB program since they haven’t been on the waitlist since kindergarten.
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So I have a few things to say. First of all, I don’t think J.D. is saying everyone should move to Kansas. There are pros and cons for everyone. If being near your family is important to you and they live in California, Kansas is not the place for you.
Secondly, let’s remember that Kansas is just an example of a place that has a lower cost of living that Bend. There are many states/cities that have lower costs of living than the NW.
Thirdly, I think those numbers may be a bit off as well. I would be very surprised if the average home in Topeka was $224,000. My guess is you could get a great house for much less than that.
And lastly, Kansas is not a horrible place to live. Would I move to Salina? No. Never. Would I live in Topeka again (where I grew up)? Only if it was the last possible option. But Lawrence? Hell, yeah. Its a great college town with lots of culture and a laid back vibe. I live in Kansas City now and I love it. There are great opportunities to be had in a city like KC (MO or KS side). Because the cost of living is low, my husband and I are able to own a beautiful old bungalow in Midtown and walk almost anywhere we want. I have a great yard, house and neighborhood and it is affordable. We have great restaurants, museums and the weather isn’t all that bad if you like experiencing all four of the seasons. All I am saying is don’t knock it, ’til you’ve tried it.
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We recently moved from Bend to Kansas. Part of our pull was because of some family ties in the Midwest. We spent a lot of money on plane tickets back to KS and Chicago.
Lawrence is the only town I’d want to live in here. We only need one car, since we both work in town. The University is great, with close proximity to major city/airport, & lots to do if you have kids. Housing is less expensive than Bend (or was…) and I can’t believe Topeka housing ave is $224K– you’d get a very high end place for that.
But man, do we ever talk about “someday” moving back to the PNW.
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I call it geographic arbitrage, and it is THE reason that I moved to Oregon, from my beloved home in Los Angeles. I took a job I hate in small-town Oregon (but which takes little energy or brain power) for health insurance, and continue to pursue my “real” career, at Los Angeles rates, remotely from the Pacific Northwest. And my savings is now turbo-charged.
I won’t lie, though: if we get to the point where our retirement and college funds are completely funded? I think we would probably move back to the city.
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Crosby, ND??? OMG I KNOW THAT TOWN! I know that guy in the article! Whoo!
I lived in Crosby for maybe two months in 2004 while in AmeriCorps*NCCC, a program that connects nonprofits with teams of trained volunteers. Our sponsor there was the Divide County Economic Council, who wanted our help with some beautification projects to prepare for the city’s centennial. I probably learned the most working that project, just from talking to everyone in the town about their economic situation. Crosby has a population of maybe 1000, mostly older people. All of the young people raised in Crosby move to larger towns for job prospects, leaving behind a growing retired community.
What can I say? Country living isn’t for everyone. Crosby’s big issue is that it’s not really on the way to anywhere; it’s tucked away on some random highway. The people there are wonderful, and everyone does know everyone, and houses are super cheap. But there aren’t really a lot of jobs. The type of person who would benefit is exactly what the article says…able to work remotely. J.D., you would actually do well there since you blog for a living, though Kris might go insane. Things seemed pretty dismal in 2004, and I can only imagine it’s gotten worse in the past couple years. Ideas like the free land thing sound tempting for frustrated urban dwellers, but you have to remember that rural areas have their own economic issues.
Though if I could work from home, I’d definitely consider it. What can I say, I loved the people. There’s a lot of community pride. If you go there you will definitely have some really sweet neighbors and people will leave cakes on your doorstep for no reason and you’ll meet a lot of Norweigans and have something called a “pitchfork fondue,” which is exactly what it sounds like. And though the fresh produce is lacking, you can get an ice cream “wizard,” which is like a blizzard. But better.
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CoL is why my husband and I moved from the Chicago area to Omaha, NE last summer. Pros: Lower CoL, close enough to home to make visiting easier, lower unemployment rate, LOTS of Chicagoans living here. Cons: Higher taxes, lower wages, no real “flavor” here everything is middle America nothing really sets it apart or makes it unique, and we can’t get good pizza to save our lives.
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There seems to be a subtle tone of contempt in this post and some of the comments for people living in the middle of the country. Believe it or not, we have plumbing, electric, internet service etc.
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Well, I think your little brother has the right general idea. I’m always very disappointed with the view I often see about how the governments should ‘help out’ the local economy so folks don’t need to uproot. Fluidity is important.
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Brother & Family could suffer some real culture shock, moving from Oregon (!!) to the flatlands.
Also, unless their $60,000 income is completely independent of where they live, they’ll find their paychecks shrink right along with the cost of living. So their dollars won’t buy them much more there than where they are now.
Are they too strapped to take a week or two of vacation? If they can, maybe they should consider going there and just sitting in the proposed village–look around, talk to folks, talk to real estate agents…think about whether they’d enjoy living there. If he travels a lot for his business, will she be content to hang around the place, just her & the kiddies? For some people, moving 1,000 miles away from friends and family is quite a serious matter. Another thing to consider is that moving itself is expensive — just to rent a U-Haul can cost a lot. Even if they can clear enough on the real estate transactions to get themselves back to Oregon, in the event that they don’t like it there they could find the cost of two cross-country moves prohibitive.
I was offered a tenure-track position (and, given my publications and teaching record, a promise of tenure within three years) in South Carolina. As long as I’ve lived in the United States (all of my adult life), I’ve been in the American Southwest; my parents came from California. This “step up” in my career would have entailed an $8,000-plus cut in salary; but for a fraction of what my rather ordinary house in Arizona would have brought, I could have bought a beautiful house in the woods with a stream burbling through the property.
However, at the time the citizens there were busying themselves with defending their right to fly the Confederate flag over their state capitol. Three moving companies each gave estimates of $6,000 to haul my furniture across the country; the college was offering a $2,000 moving allowance. One-way… All my friends were here; my son was relatively nearby in San Francisco. The potential culture shock, the large cut in pay, and the prospect of having to pony up $4,000 out of pocket in moving expenses (or as much as $10,000 if I hated it there and wanted to move back!) led me to turn the offer down.
Does Money Magazine still do its annual survey of desirable places to live? I think AARP does a yearly round-up of ideal retirement towns, many of which could be fine places for younger people, too. If he wants to move to where the cost of living is lower, maybe he & his wife could find a place that’s more compatible with what they’re used to.
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