I called my little brother yesterday. He lost his home to foreclosure last fall, and things have only continued to get worse. He and his wife are doing the best they can, but they feel overwhelmed.
“What’s the latest?” I asked. Tony gave me an update. We talked about his problems with insurance, and with the bank, and with the debt settlement service. We talked about his options for the future.
“All things considered, I guess we’re doing okay,” Tony said. “But to be honest, we’ve thought about relocating to Kansas.”
“Kansas?” I said. “Why Kansas?”
“I was at a trade show in Kansas a couple of months ago,” Tony said. “And I got to talking with a woman who does something with economic development in Osage County. Apparently you can get all sorts of financial help for starting a business there. Plus things are less expensive in Kansas.”
Tony and I laughed about the notion of his family relocating to the heartland. There’s nothing wrong with Kansas, but it seems like such a non-sequitur. Our family has deep roots here in Oregon. We have no relationship to Kansas.
Later, though, I realized that it might make sense for Tony to move. Because he sells a product across the United States, his income is not tied to where he lives. If he moved from Bend, Oregon — which has a high cost-of-living — to someplace less expensive, it could make a great difference to his financial situation. (The big question, of course, is whether his quality of life would change.)
Just for kicks, I ran some numbers through the Bankrate cost-of-living comparison calculator. This is one of my favorite financial calculators. I love to play with the numbers, trying to find expensive places to live (San Francisco! New York!) and cheap places to live (Waco, Texas! Salina, Kansas!) Portland is sort of in the middle. Guessing at Tony’s salary, it looks like he could save significantly by moving from Bend to Osage County:
Cost of living is one of those factors that few people consider, but which can have a huge impact on the family budget. When you have access to affordable housing, and when food, clothing, and health care costs are manageable, it’s easier to meet your financial goals. Sometimes it’s possible to make choices that keep costs low and allow you to stay where you are. But in other cases, it can make sense to relocate to a region with a lower cost of living.
I admit that over the past few years, I’ve been fascinated by the stories of towns in Kansas and North Dakota offering free land and other incentives to lure new residents. Coupled with low costs of living, these locations really appeal to me. “Wouldn’t you like to live in northwest North Dakota?” I asked Kris recently. She gave me The Look.
I guess we’ll stay in Portland for now.
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I moved from small town Ohio to just outside LA. I know that what I pay in rent for a teeny-tiny one bedroom apt is almost more than my parents’ mortgage was. I know full well I’m paying a high price to live within walking distance of the ocean, and I wouldn’t change a thing! I like that there are 3 malls within ten minutes drive, rather than 1 mall half an hour away. I LOVE the tiny hole-in-the-wall restaurants and the fact that there isn’t an Applebees within 30 miles.
I wouldn’t raise a family here, but for a girl in her 20s, it’s perfect.
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@Beth #39 –
Sounds like you made a good move. Is there a grad school nearby that you are going to go to? I’ve found, so far, that the opportunity to pursue my education farther would be extremely limited in the rural areas I would like (generally near mountains).
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Hi Ash,
Perhaps you should get off your high horse long enough to actually read my comment. I’m not saying that everyone should live in expensive or urban settings. Nor am I saying there’s anything wrong with living in small towns, places with gardens, etc. I’m saying that people shouldn’t prioritize stuff, mcmansions, etc over living where they actually want to live (and all of the other non-economic benefits like family, friends, etc). So, if I were living in a small town and liked that small town, I would choose to scale down my life and stay there rather than make a choice to move to an urban area where wages were higher if I were in a financial pinch.
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J.D. I know you were jokingly asking your wife about NW North Dakota – but in the rare case that you would actually consider it, let me share my thoughts.
I currently live in North Dakota (grew up in Minnesota) and I lived in Oregon for a year and loved it. Trust me when I say you do NOT want to live in North Dakota.
Commenter 12 makes a very good point.
It might be easier to get a job in North Dakota than it is in Oregon, but there’s a reason people don’t move here… there’s nothing here. And during the 4-5 months of winter it’s freezing cold, dreadful, and miserable.
Several years ago Maxim Magazine ran two hilarious advertisements – one for South Dakota and one for North Dakota – I scanned the North Dakota ad back then and just added to flickr for you all to enjoy.
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J.D., I think you, your brother and other family members should get together and brainstorm a way to keep him in Bend. Caretakers for a couple years, etc. He’s probably just depressed from the situation.
I’ve been to Pittsburgh, Baltimore, D.C. and personally wouldn’t move to a city to save my soul.
The PNW is at the top of my list when we retire and travel.
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We have almost the opposite problem but just as frustrating. We live in the PNW now (Portland area) and want to own our own land to have a hobby farm on. Unfortunately land costs are so high and our salaries low that the dream is completely unreachable. We could move to Kansas or another area where land is cheaper but that would take us away from all we love here. So we are stuck with the circular question of how to stay here and see our dreams come to fruition. No idea!
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I moved from Eugene to a small town an hour outside of Madison, WI. A few things I noticed – small town life isn’t really that different. Housing prices are lower here, but property taxes are much higher. Gas is typically cheaper, as is milk, but vegetables and fruits tend to be much more than my family back in Oregon pays. Sometimes I miss the Pacific, but Lake Michigan is quite impressive in it’s own right.
I initially moved here for grad school. I spent over $80,000 less, compared to San Francisco (my other option). Plus, I actually get to see four full seasons, something I have come to enjoy more than I thought I would.
Obviously life in the Midwest isn’t for everyone. But that can be said of just about anywhere in the world. Lack of “culture” is partly your opinion on what that word means. Life is pretty good here, and I wouldn’t go back to Eugene for twice my salary.
My town is small, but we have networking (Town Meetings, cookouts, sports, festivals), entertainment within 10 minutes (Water parks, Comedy Clubs, and great restaurants), and good schools.
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I may just pack up and move to Kansas as a retirement option but it is just too much of a hassle right now, in terms of my job travelling time and losing contact with close friends.
However, if I am struggling with foreclosures and high cost of living, this relocation idea is worth a shot. All things being equal (especially same pay), I will take the significant savings any day.
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You could do what we ended up doing. People ask us how we ended up living in Costa Rica. We tell them we kept moving South from Flagstaff Arizona until we found a place we could afford to buy a house and eat!
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I grew up in a smaller town and now live in Chicago. My income is three times what it would be in a smaller town and my cost of living is not three times as high, so I save a lot. A lot of cost of living is what you make it. I have tiny cheap ethnic grocery stores to shop at, I have free parks to explore, I have museums with free days. My mortgage is more, absolutely, but everything else is not. And my income is definitely more.
Someday, perhaps, we’ll return to a smaller town, but I’m making my money in the big city first.
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@jasondtaylor.
I live in Bend, my wife has family in KS. Hmmmm, this definately gives some food for thought.
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Yes, money magazine does still publish a list of best places to live.
See http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2008/top100/ for their ranking of best small cities last year. One of the interesting things about their data is they show both median income as well as the purchasing power of that income (cost of living adjusted). They also show median commute times, number of libraries within 15 miles, etc.
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I generally agree with the tone of some of the comments. I moved from Missouri to the Seattle area last year. Cost of living is lower in the Midwest but it’s difficult to find a high paying job. Alot of Midwest natives (younger people) move to big cities, accumulate some years of work experience and then come back to the Midwest to take higher-level positions at companies where you can make better money then. Here in Seattle a decent house and some land will cost you half a million or more… and yet, you can advance your career so much more, so it’s a tradeoff. I personally endorse the “retire to the Midwest” thing, a lot of Cali folks were doing that when I was living in Missouri, and there’s plenty of arts and culture if you choose the right place (i.e. not really those places in Kansas which are REALLY remote, but slightly larger cities like say, Wichita, Topeka, Manhattan KS, Columbia MO and others).
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We were both born and raised in Seattle, currently living in a very expensive suburb in a tiny duplex with a tiny yard, which we hate. I would LOVE to live in a small town in a different part of the country. Yes, this area is beautiful, blah blah blah. We don’t hike. We don’t ski. We don’t boat. We don’t work for Microsoft. I am sadly addicted to shows like “House Hunters” on HGTV and it blows my mind to see the home prices in other areas. I don’t want anything fancy, no McMansion, but just to have a “real” home with a big yard sounds so appealing. We are homeschoolers so I don’t care about the school system. And we would LOVE LOVE LOVE to move away from our mean, unhelpful and selfish relatives, parents included. Those of you out there with families you don’t want to move far from—you are blessed. Stay in place and enjoy your family, even if it costs more. We have family 20 minutes away but it means nothing to us. What’s stopping us from moving, under these circumstances? My husband has worked for the same company for 22 years, it is a local company with no locations outside this area, and for some reason he is absurdly loyal to them—to the detriment of his family’s well-being.
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J.D.,
I really think that this is a really good concept, however, Kansas isn’t the only cheap option. I plugged in my locale (Cincinnati, Ohio) and it’s pretty much the same as Kansas (!) Also, the prices are really high — my rent is $375/month. I really recommend the area for families, it has a vibrant arts scene, the second best parks system in the country, one of the 10 public high schools, and it’s on the river. And politically it’s fairly mixed so it wouldn’t be so much of a culture shock.
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This debate is a fascinating one. It takes a critical personal finance decision (where to live, what you can earn there, and cost of living) and juxtaposes it with the Your Money or Your Life dilemma. (WHY you try to earn/save/invest in the first place)
Most of the answers above fall along addressing one of these two in a larger way than the other. How much do you focus on the WHY? How much on the pure finances? How location-dependent is the satisfaction derived from the “WHY” part for you? Answer those, and to move or not to move becomes clear.
As for me, I couldn’t move to Kansas. I need to fly to see my family on the east coast, who I do love and care about, and Kansas has no major airport. My industry is tied to major metropolitan areas with considerable traffic congestion.
I live in a place where I have considerable cultural options that I could not find in Kansas. I play in a band on the coffeehouse circuit. I love walkable neighborhoods, and I like the reduced oil dependence of taking public transportation rather than driving, and it also saves me money.
I can’t get that in Kansas. I can’t get that in a lot of places outside major US metro areas.
I might have a few more bucks living in Kansas, but it would be bad for my soul. The financial security will come in time. In the meantime, I’ll gladly take smaller savings for a richer life.
I recognize that my cup of tea is also not everyone else’s. For many people, going to Kansas may be a financial improvement AND a validation of their desired lifestyle.
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Disclaimer: I live in Kansas City
There are a lot of great reasons to live in Kansas. While far from being a hub of culture, I can vouch for the quality of life. Many of my contemporaries in more metropolitan locales see my home and are aghast at how little I pay. If you live in Johnson County, KS the schools are phenomenal and the communities are typical midwestern and safe (as you would expect).
Everything is as you would expect in a medium sized metro area. There are opportunities to be involved with theatre, art, music, sports, everything you would expect, but you may have to look a little harder to find the community for your particular interest.
I probably wouldn’t want to live in Salina, just because of the distance from a reasonable airport, but living in the suburbs of KC puts my home 30min from the airport, 15min from the office.
The KS stereotypes (bible-thumping fanatics, cultural wasteland, …) are typically true of central-western KS, but living in KC is actually quite a bit different.
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A few things to note:
1. I doubt my brother will move to Kansas.
2. When I speak of Kansas and North Dakota in my case, those are only hypotheticals. I do like the idea of moving to someplace with a lower cost of living, but these are only examples, and not meant to be indicative of serious consideration.
3. I’m not dissing the Heartland, and neither is Kris. Kris doesn’t like to be cold, which is the reason she gave me The Look.
I love this conversation.
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I currently live in Austin, TX, a pretty hip place to be by national opinion. Strangely, most people I know who never have been to KC always think that Austin is more urban than KC, but anyone with access to Google can easily find out that’s not the case. On paper Austin has a larger population, but that’s because of square footage not population density. Just compare the downtown skylines. Austin doesn’t have a zoo, a sanctuary but not an accredited zoo. Culturely it’s lags as well in the number of museums and what not. More big name acts go through KC than Austin, Ticketmaster can confirm that. I could go on quite longer having carefully weighed the pros and cons.
Why am I still living in Austin? Because it has what I currently want out of life which is primarily a volatile tech sector. The KC tech sector is a bit too stable for my current tastes, less opportunities to move around and up. Though, I’m big on cultural stuff, Austin is getting better; furthermore, I don’t mind traveling to satiate my needs for art exhibits and the like.
Now I do agree with a lot that has been said in the comments. It’s definitely more than cost of living and as J.D. pointed out this is just one hypothetical point. Some mention beauty. Well for me since I spent a good chunk growing up in Kansas, a rolling sea of wheat as far as the eye could see either at dawn or sunset is something truly majestic. I don’t really care about huge forests or towering peaks, they’re pretty, but they hold no nostalgia for me.
Curious? You can find some quick facts between an Austin and KC metro suburb on Money’s Best Places to Live for 2008: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2008/ Round Rock, TX and Overland Park, KS
I lived in O.P. KS, which was ranked 9th 2008 and 6th in 2006. You can only go back as far as 2005, so I can’t verify what other years it’s been in the top 10. Other repeats I do remember seeing on the list over the decades: Naperville, IL, Fort Collins, CO, and Columbia/Elliot City, MD.
BTW, I’m of Asian descent and I’m agnostic and I think most of the stereotypes don’t hold true when compared to places that don’t have that stereotype, especially in terms of culture and religion. There isn’t an appreciable difference in the number of fanatics running around KS in relations to other states. Now rural areas do tend to be more “conservative”, but that’s not limited to KS, but to rural America in general. If KS were as the stereotypes would infer shouldn’t we be hearing about raids on compounds in KS rather than Montana and Texas? Or does that mean we have bible-thumping raving lunatics in those states in comparison.
I really like the comment stating that there’s no major airports in Kansas, and they’re absolutely right. Kansas City International Airport (MCI) is on the Missouri side of the metro area and since it’s a medium sized airport it might not fall into the category of “major”. Actually, it’s hard to tell what people are trying to compare with words such as “large” or “major”. KC metro is near 2 million. Is that large medium or small.
Finally, cultural wasteland. Sure if we consider it by density over the entire state I could see that. With a few exceptions most states could be viewed as a cultural wasteland as well. If culture is live music almost every metro with 1+ million (I’m making a very conservative guess) will have enough venues and coffee houses. Heck even national headliners will make a stop. Frankly, one of the best places to go to a headliner concert is Lawrence, KS since you aren’t going to be over paying for seats in some huge stadium, but lower priced tickets to a small concert hall or similar sized venue.
On the whole, I like most parts of America, from coast to coast. I just felt I needed to chime in after seeing what I felt were blatantly ignorant remarks, especially, if they can google things so easily this day and age.
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As someone who moved from a very low cost-of-living area (Oklahoma) to a very high (D.C.), I’ll tell you that your brother would save money on some things (especially housing) but not on others (transportation for instance – my husband and I don’t own a car now, but would need two in Oklahoma). Since it sounds like all your family is in Oregon, it’s also worth considering how much time and money they would want to spend coming home – my husband loves to tease me that it’s easier, cheaper and shorter to go to London than Oklahoma from where we live. It’s worth running the number very closely.
Outside of finances, there are real cultural differences. It is absolutely untrue that the “Heartland” lacks culture and all diversity, but most places are different than large cities (and the South is different than Northern areas). It depends on what is important to you – how important is it to be where your family has been for generations? How important is your church, because in the Midwest, that’s frequently your “third place” by default?
Maybe they should try somewhere closer – Idaho? Montana???
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Don’t forget to factor in state income taxes. When I moved from CA to NV, making the same salary, it was nearly a 10% pay raise just by not paying CA state income tax. Other factors made the cost of living even cheaper. When we left NV, we made it a point to only consider states with no income tax. It’s surprising how much of a difference that makes.
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This is a fascinating conversation. I should probably admit that I am a native Kansan currently tolerating life in Missouri for the remainder of my teaching career.
I wonder though, are these cost of living estimates based on dramatic averages? Are there more affordable places to live in Oregon?
I grew up in suburban KC where I noticed a significantly higher cost of living than I experience living just 45 minutes from the KC metro. Oddly enough, I work in a suburban school that pays better but live in a small town that is about an equal distance from my employer as my employer is from the city.
My house is cheaper, child care is cheaper, health care isn’t as modern (you have to drive up to the city for the fancy stuff!) but I can get in to see my doctor or dentist before lunch today if I need to. Food is slightly more expensive and there is less competition and thus a higher mark-up on retail in general. You can avoid that by driving to the city if it makes enough of a difference though.
All in all, you can save some money by carefully choosing where you live. You still need to feel at home though and that needs to factor into the equation somehow. How much it’s worth probably depends on the individual more than anything. For me, family keeps me in the midwest. My comfort zone keeps me out of the city (or out of the nation’s bigger cities–except as a tourist). I alleviate the additional costs of rural life with a garden and the farmer’s market, by carefully planning trips to the city, and by finding hobbies that fit my chosen home.
I do find Kansas to be beautiful. On a taller hill (we don’t have actual mountains) at the right time of day you can see rolling grasslands that gently disappear into the horizon. They are breathtaking. Fields of wheat and wild sunflowers too.
I also don’t like the quantification of culture. Culture is present in the same amount everywhere. Only diversity and type differ. I’ve been to places on the east and west coasts where the culture overwhelmed my midwestern values and mores to the point that I would probably choose not to go back. I always tell my kids that people who think they have more culture really just believe they have better culture (which is a very closed minded attitude).
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I first jumped state when I was 12. Up until then we lived in the midwest but my mom couldn’t find a job so we moved out to rural NV (near Elko, about half way between Reno and SLC). I went to college in Reno and then my husband and I had the choice between El Segundo, CA and Albuqueruque, NM. We did the CoL comparisons and decided ABQ was better financially as well as fit us socially.
Every couple years we evaluate potentially moving (right now I think our next stop will be ID), but talking to others and how static their lives are always surprises me.
It takes a specific kind of person to consider moving outside of their comfort zone. I’m always perplexed when I hear the sob stories coming out of MI or other areas about how there aren’t any jobs. Because the answer seems clear to me: MOVE.
I have to laugh at the snobbishness of some posts saying they could never move to a rural community. They can be closed, but they can be very open and welcoming. Each location has their own flavor. The most closed community I lived in what a small town. The most open was as well.
And I can safely say that my skin would crawl if I moved back to a city (I live outside ABQ now). I don’t want too many people too close. If you’re within 10 yards of my house you have business with me, and I like that. Give me satellite TV, high speed internet, Netflix, and enough room to do projects and keep myself busy and I have all the culture I need. As long as there is a city within a day’s drive that I can supply myself once per month or so and I’m good. I already do 90% of my non-food shopping online anyway.
All of that is just me, and I realize that. I know a lot of you would go as crazy living my life as I would living yours. But the original point is a very very good one, not just from a CoL standpoint, but from every standpoint. I lose a lot of respect for people who won’t consider moving for the good of their family. If you can make a living and make your bills then the decision is yours. But if you CAN’T, things that add no value (i.e. family, culture, etc) come WAY behind putting food on the table. Sometimes family does add value (child care, free place to stay). But if you have to move to support your family, then you have to move. And at that point keep an open mind and make your own happiness, even if it’s not your first choice of where you want to be.
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Funny to read about all these folks pining for the Pacific Northwest. We escaped that place many years ago for greener (dryer?) pastures in AZ. Never looked back.
We were able to get a much nicer home for much less $ and our jobs were completely transferable (including the same pay!). I know that’s not true for many folks, but for us it was a no-brainer. We couldn’t be happier here in the desert. 
It really does depend on what your situation is and what type of lifestyle you’re looking for. We love the 300+ days of sunshine and abundant outdoor activities (even in the heat – there are lakes!)
We don’t mind the cookie cutter strip malls and lack of “culture”. Growing up around “culture” my whole life, I find it is highly subsidized by the taxpayers, and rarely interests me anymore. Our kids learn more by going hiking in the mountains than they would by looking at “art.” But that’s just what works for us…
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What I find weird is that the Washington, DC metro area does not appear to be on the list. I looked for District of Columbia, and I looked for Washington, DC. Hagerstown/Martinsburg, WV doesn’t work for us, because our COL and salaries are in alignment with DC. Same thing with Baltimore/Towson. I was unable to do any calculating for us.
Jen M.
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I don’t live in Kansas (did for the first 21 years of my life), but it is exactly like every other state in the country, in that some parts of it suck and some parts of it are great. I think its hilarious when people (like some commenters here) generalize an entire state, as if every city or area within it is the exact same.
Oh, and somebody even mentioned something about not even having a major airport. Are you kidding me? The KC airport is a gem. It is the fastest airport to ever get in and out of, and the prices are cheap because it is not a hub for anyone. I don’t live in KC, but the airport would be a huge benefit if I was a frequent traveller.
Your brother should go visit and see if he likes it. Although I will warn him that if all he sees is Topeka, then he will think Kansas sucks
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Disclaimer: I live in Lawrence KS.
When considering a move like that, I think it’s really important to know what you’re moving into. There’s a big difference between living in Salina or Western Kansas and living in Eastern Kansas.
If you’re looking for anything remotely similar to the culture of Portland/northwest, I’d strongly recommend either Lawrence or Kansas City. Lawrence is a college town that has a great downtown / music / art / local food / college sports. In 2004, Lawrence’s county was the only one to vote democratic. In 2008, one of the KC counties joined us….
If 90k people is too small for you, I’d consider living in KC where there will be many more options of places to eat and larger venues for concerts/activities.
Like everyone else said, this isn’t just about Kansas though. I guess my point is that no matter where you look into moving, you should do some research and talk to the people who live there to find something that fits your needs.
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Another interesting discussion! I’m with the “keep him in Oregon” group. Community (business colleagues, fellow hobbyists, family, friends & neighbors) and opportunity (cultural, financial, personal, educational) are pretty strong reasons for staying or going in any one place, but they all ought to be considered.
Cost of living adjustments can be made without moving from a coast to the heartland. Moving to a smaller town in an expensive state may be a better choice than moving to a same-size town in a less expensive state. To me, Paso Robles is higher value than Anaheim.
Just my two cents.
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I live in Kansas, Wichita to be more precise. The nice thing about relocating and given his business, Wichita is pretty good. Kansas City has a much higher cost of living. Its skewed by the fact that downtown is pricey, and the suburbs are cheap, but rush hour is absurd. You don’t want Topeka, its a far cry from anything resembling society, and its farther from the airport. Based on his work, I would think that would be important.
I bought a home in Wichita right out of school. I got an FHA loan and put my little money down. I live comfortably, by myself in a great home. I have plenty of space, and can ride my bike downtown to work/market/art galleries (Which are all open free on the last Friday of the month, btw)
All I can say is that I enjoy Kansas and you shouldn’t knock it until you try it. There are plenty of things offered here that other cities can’t. There are certain amenities that it doesn’t have. Just a few thoughts.
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It totally makes sense that there would be a reverse migration across the states–California and the rest of the west has become so overcrowded and expensive in recent years–this “Depression”‘s promised land is the heartland, whereas it was California during the last one.
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“when the government rewards people for starting a business and has less restrictions, people succeed…”
I have never understood why it’s a bad thing to turn to the government for help when the alternative is starving or living in a slum or going without medical care, but it’s a good thing for the government to pay you for starting a business. I thought customers were supposed to do that. I also thought success was supposed to be a reward for personal effort. Maybe I was wrong.
That said… changing the subject…
In the ten years since I left my then-husband I’ve been fairly mobile. I have been accused of being unstable because of this but the reality is, I spent most of my savings trying to save my marital finances and I was literally starting over with nothing. So I was torn between staying with my dad or other family members for free but not being able to find work, and going to the city to find work but barely being able to afford a place to live.
Presently I am living in a forty-unit apartment building with no yard and a four-year-old who gets ants in her pants. Thank goodness spring is just about here. And yet we have to walk down the street a few blocks to the playground before she can properly “go out and play” because there is no yard and furthermore, I don’t know anyone around here and can’t run right outside if she gets into trouble. (People think parents don’t let their kids play outside because we’re overprotective. No, we don’t let them play outside sometimes because we don’t want them turning up missing or dead. This is reality in a city, if you’re not in the ‘burbs.)
So I’ve been thinking hard about lower cost of living and being able to kick my daughter outside to play with the neighborhood kids if we were to go back down and stay with my dad again. But then I would be trapped yet again out in the boonies with no car, at least until I learn to drive a standard, since that’s what Dad’s truck has for a transmission. I would learn to do that before I would have the money to buy a vehicle. At least here we have the bus, if my little girl’s dad can’t drive us somewhere.
I can say this much, though: it’s not worth basing your decision on being a snob. “Culture” doesn’t mean museums and movies and art no matter how much we insist they do; it means interacting with other human beings. Most human interaction in a city is centered around consumption. In the country, people genuinely want to know about you and be around you on personal terms. It makes sense when you consider that cities were invented for the purpose of facilitating commerce in the first place.
I would trade any number of museums and ethnic restaurants to have been able to attend my hometown’s Mardi Gras celebrations even once. I’ve certainly missed out on relationships with my family. I guess it’s been worth being able to survive this long, though…?
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Imagine that… when the government rewards people for starting a business and has less restrictions, people succeed…
I’m sure that explains why a state like California has a larger and more robust economy than states like, say, Alabama.
A company’s or small business owner’s success hinges on much more than tax burdens or government restrictions. If Kansas doesn’t offer a well-educated workforce, or a large enough workforce considering the state is less populated, if Kansas doesn’t offer enough customers for a specific product, if Kansas doesn’t offer the type of infrastructure that a specific business needs, then no amount of cutting back taxes or government regulations will draw business to that state.
Just for the record, I’m not specifically stating that Kansas does or does not have these things. I’m simply making the point that eliminating taxes and regulations don’t magically make people succeed. Those taxes and regulations are just as capable, or possibly more capable, of creating a healthy business environment.
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Your brother could find the same reduction in cost of living without leaving Oregon. What about Klamath Falls, Grants Pass, Cave Junction, Oakridge?
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Good post. The thing I try to remember is that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence . . . uprooting is a big decision for anybody. I wouldn’t recommend that your brother do that too quick.
As for The Look– JD, I get that almost weekly and I get The Eyeroll on a daily basis . . . you get used to it!
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I’d have to rule those 2 states out simply becus i’d be terrified of a tornado completely wiping me out.
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As my name implies, I live in KC (on the Missouri side). Born and raised in Wichita, Kansas, went to college at the University of Kansas in Lawrence. Lived in Italy for six months, was bitten by the travel bug, and have used the ole passport extensively ever since. My two cents:
I always thought I would move away from the Midwest after college. Then I started interviewing for jobs and changed my mind. I figured my choices were to 1. Live someplace with ‘a lot going on’ and not be able to afford to leave or 2. Live in a place like KC and be able to afford to travel extensively.
My starting salary coming out of state school (undergrad in accounting) was $45,000 in 2006, with my then-boyfriend I bought a two bedroom 1,100 sf condo in the ‘cool’ part of town (the Plaza) for $142,000. We have one car, and have two grocery stores within walking distance- one of which is a Whole Foods. We go to the symphony, the ballet, have seen national tours of Wicked and other major shows, go to large concerts, and can afford to go out to eat and hit up happy hours every week. KC has a great LGBT scene with a dedicated LGBT theater, great clubs and bars, and a very active chapter of the HRC and LGBTCC. The stereotype of crazed conservative Christians in this part of the country just isn’t true.
We make travel a priority- spent three weeks in Europe last August, are going to sail the B.V.I.s in June. With its constant wind Kansas actually has a couple of the best sailing venues in the WORLD- I sail competitively and have held my own in regattas in places like Oregon, for example
This part of the country has a lot to offer! I’m not saying I’ll be here forever because I won’t, but there’s nowhere else in the U.S. I would choose to live. We’ll likely be relocating overseas for my now husband to attend an international MBA program, but after we’re done playing in Asia we’ll likely come back here to raise our family. It’s truly a great place to live REGARDLESS of the low COL.
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It sounds great in theory and financially could make a huge difference, but that is a difficult decision especially if you are from a bigger city. Being from NY, I could never see myself taking that type of move. I am in DC now and think it’s too small for me.
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I’ve lived in NYC, Seattle, Chicago, and Chapel Hill, NC–and now I live in St. Louis, and it is the cheapest *and* the best place I’ve ever lived. Sometimes you don’t have to compromise. I encourage folks to look beyond the expensive trendy places–You’ll be glad you did.
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Have him move back to the Portland house.
I assume it is still on the market?
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I live in Vancouver, Canada and it’s just getting so expensive especially with the Olympics fast approaching.
I’ve often considered leaving, but my family is here, so I stay … for now.
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As AppleMan Said, Taxes are not noted here. Esp real estate taxes, which are huge in the NE. Whilst your COL for a basket of goods or for the list price of a house may be gobs lower, check what you’ll be paying to the gubmint before you get to start shopping for that basket.
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I was recently visiting my parents in my hometown of Newton, KS. My first thought looking out the window after waking up the morning after flying in was, “What’s wrong with the grass?! It’s all brown!” The grass is greener in Portland, both figuratively AND literally for me! =)
The responses this post have generated have been interesting because readers have revealed their values for location. Very few of them seem to be cost of living dependent! While cost of living was one factor in my decision to move to Portland, it was a small one.
I love Kansas and wouldn’t mind living in my hometown. But I much prefer the opportunities (art, nature, dining, international, etc), values (community, eco-friendly, social/government, public transportation, etc) and all-round atmosphere Portland offers. These reasons are worth far more to me than the very slightly higher than national average cost of living.
Cost of living is also a general tool, not a specific one. Many people, especially those who adhere to a lot of principles espoused in GRS, will find their cost of living needs differ dramatically than the average.
For example, I don’t own a car. I walk/bike/scooter wherever I need to go; population density and mixed zoning was one of my main factors in choosing Portland. My transportation costs, one of the main variables in most CoL equations, is incredibly less than it would be in Kansas, or most anywhere in the Midwest, where you MUST own a car to survive.
I highly recommend this tool if you’re looking to move:
http://www.findyourspot.com/
It allows for numerous variables people often overlook when deciding where to move. AND it allows you to rate their importance. It’s how I settled on Portland when it consistently came out on top for me in all the areas most important to me.
I will admit cost of living WAS important in one respect: San Francisco was initially my first choice. But what it offered was NOT worth the obscene cost of living there.
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Rooster Teacher made an interesting point about culture: it “is present in the same amount everywhere. Only diversity and type differ…people who think they have more culture really just believe they have better culture.”
Having lived in very rural areas, small cities, resort towns, and big cities, I believe when most people refer to the lack of ‘culture’ in rural or small town areas, they are referring to a lack of diversity in culture. I currently live in San Diego (a beautiful place!), and it is extremely diverse. You could probably find any culture you wanted here, ultra-conservative religious folks, nomadic surfers, hard core punk rockers, corporate loving business people, wealthy fashionistas, freegans.
I could live in the tiniest town and find it full of culture, if its activities and people were a good fit for me and my family.
Just my two cents.
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We recently moved from Denver,CO to small town KS and I can tell you, it is definitely NOT cheaper to live here. The only thing I’ve found that is cheaper, is housing.
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To the writer, I’m not sure how Oregon is doing, but California, your west coast neighbour is bankrupt.
North Dakota is the one place in the whole of the US where more jobs are created than there are available people to grab them. People are moving out of Chicago and Seattle to North Dakota.
I live in the midwest, and there are tons of people who moved from California to Kansas City, Missouri and they refuse to go back.
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Don’t fall for the low cost of living in Kansas! PATHETICALLY LOW WAGES!!! State tax, sales tax & high property taxes will take what money you have left. Leaving Kansas ASAP.
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