Ask the Readers: What Do You Do When Frugality Gets You Nowhere?
Published on - March 20th, 2009 (by J.D. Roth) In general, the frugal person who saves and invests will slowly build wealth, and will find herself far ahead of her peers. But sometimes the progress is slow — or even non-existent. When this happens, good financial habits can seem frustrating. Sara wrote to ask what to do when frugality seems to be getting you nowhere:
Although I practice extreme frugality, I feel that I cannot get ahead financially. Every month I seem to be back in exactly the same place as I started the month before. Here are the details:
- I am 24 years old and have never carried credit-card debt.
- I have $4000 in student loans at 2.5%.
- I am responsible for half of a mortgage at 5.5%.
- I work 20-25 hours of overtime every week for extra money to save.
- I contribute the full employer match to my 401(k).
- We eat all our meals at home and pack our lunches everyday. I cook lots of beans and rice and other low cost foods.
- I do not drive a fancy new car or buy fancy new clothes. In fact, I do not buy many consumer goods at all.
- Every month, I pay extra principal on the mortgage and put extra money toward my student loan.
- Every month I put money into an ING savings account.
- Every month I put money into an index-fund Roth IRA.
Even paying extra on my student loans, it will still take years to pay them off. Even though I am putting 15-20% of my gross income into a 401(k) and an IRA, the balances don’t go up. They go down, or, if I’m lucky, they stay the same. Even though I put money in savings, I seem to have no progress because the savings rate is so low. Even though I scrupulously keep track of my tax deductions, my tax refund from 2008 will be less than $20. When I think of what I pay in taxes, it makes me feel queasy.
Why does it seem that I am doing all the right things but getting all the wrong results? I feel like I have been running in circles, going no where fast, and I am exhausted.
Saving money is work. It’s a challenge. Success does not come overnight. And, in fact, there can be long stretches where it seems nothing is going right. This is especially true if the economy at large is conspiring against you. You may be making good choices, but if interest rates are low and the stock market is declining, it will seem like you’re making no progress (or maybe even losing ground).
I believe that Sara is doing the right thing. Obviously there’s no guarantee that she will be successful, but it’s my belief that if she continues to make smart choices, she will be rewarded in the long run.
My advice — and it feels odd to say this — is for Sara to be a little less thrifty in the present. I think she should reduce the extra payments on her student loans (and possibly her mortgage), at least for a little while. She should use this money to pursue something that she enjoys or that gives her life meaning. She might, for example, save for a trip to Europe, or for a new bicycle.
Since re-discovering it last autumn, I’ve become an adherent of Elizabeth Warren’s balanced money formula, which is designed to let people build wealth while also setting aside some money for fun. Warren says that, ideally, no more than 50% of your paycheck should be spent on Needs. Of the remaining amount, at least 20% should be devoted to Saving, while up to 30% can be spent on Wants.
Here’s what the balanced money formula looks like:

This simple plan has made a huge difference in my own life. Because I’ve reduced my Needs to below 50% of my net income, I’m still able to meet my Savings goals and have plenty left over for Wants. But the key is to allow myself to actually spend on Wants. For a time, I wasn’t doing this, and it made money management a drag.
My guess is that by allowing herself a bigger budget for Wants, Sara will feel better about her progress. But I also think that she needs to be patient. She’s only 24. She’s young, and she’s making smart choices. I believe that in the long term, she will succeed. But it takes time. Right now she’s being thwarted by one of the worst economies in the past 100 years. That’s a powerful tide to swim against!
What do you think? Am I completely off base? What advice do you have for Sara? Should she stay the course and continue to embrace extreme frugality and debt reduction? Or should she lighten up in an attempt to find some balance? Are there other options that I’m forgetting? How can she begin to feel like she’s making some progress?
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I totally agree with the money formula and setting aside some money for Wants. No argument from me there.
But I disagree with this:
“Saving money is work. It’s a challenge.”
To me, that’s like thinking of weight loss as a challenge that can be won with specific things like diets or exercise regiments. We know that doesn’t work.
But what saving really is is a habit. A way of life, and she seems to be doing that already, so props to her. Incorporating the money formula may help, but like any change it’s going to take time to adjust.
My advice? Keep at it and try to allocate some more money to your wants so you don’t feel so run down about your saving. You’re doing the right thing and soon enough your habits will become second nature. It’s not easy, but you’re doing the right thing—take solace in that.
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Whoa! You’re maxing out your employer match, paying down a mortgage, contributing to a Roth, and building up an emergency fund…and you feel like you’re getting nowhere?
Sara, you are making fantastic progress toward financial independence!
Whether the balances in your IRA and 401k happen to go up each month is beside the point right now. You’re only 24. You’re accumulating shares, which will certainly appreciate in value between now and the time you retire.
Regardless of what changes you decide to make, please recognize that you are making a lot of progress. Good work!
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I agree J.D. she needs to stop paying the extra money on her student loans if they are at 2.5% thats great puting extra money to that when funds could be used elsewhere. I also agree that at her age and low rate making additional morgage payments is not needed. As for her account balance she is gaining shares which is important because when things rebound those shares shes buying now at a discount will return great profits.
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I think the last post is correct. Sara, right now it’s not a big deal that your 401k and IRA are not going up. In fact, your better off in the long run since your only 24. Right now you are purchasing mutual funds at a huge discount. When the market turns around (and it will) you will be in great shape.
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I agree that Sara is making smart choices that will definitely help her in the long run. I would like to know more about her goals, though. WHY is she working so hard to prepay the mortgage? Does she have a goal to be mortgage-free in a certain period of time? She is doing the “right” things, but it could be useful for her to look at why she’s doing them and then assess if this is the best way to achieve her goals.
For example, one of our goals right now is to pay off our current car loan (our only non-mortgage debt) and to save for the next car we’ll need to buy to avoid financing it. Sure, we’d like to pay off our mortgage sooner rather than later, but right now, not having car payments is more crucial to achieving our immediate goals. Once this is taken care of, it’s likely we will put more money on the mortgage, but not until then.
I’ve read that when giving to charities, it’s often best to give $100 to one charity rather than $25 to four. The idea is that your money does more good that way. If Sara doesn’t want to pull out some of the money for fun, as J.D. suggested (a great idea, I think) perhaps she could choose between additional payments on the student loans and additional payments on the mortgage — rather than putting a little on each, combine the money and put it all on one. She may see more progress that way, which may have a positive psychological effect, giving her a sense that her hard work is doing some good.
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I like the tide analogy you use there. I think Sara and myself alike can agree that while we’re swimming against the tide there are a lot of people being swept away and drowning.
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Agree w/ #2. I don’t know how you feel like you are getting nowhere if you are paying down principal, saving and contributing to your retirement. Sounds to me like you are doing fantastic.
Plus $4000 in student loans shouldn’t take you years to pay off if you are able to make all those contributions.
Maybe take the extra you are paying on your mortgage and pay off your student loans.
Is the other 50% contributor to the mortgage also matching your ‘extra’? If not, you need to stop that right now.
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I agree with Beth – putting all of your money toward one debt, so you can “cross it off the list” will give you a sense of accomplishment. So – if you only have 2 debts, but all of your extra money toward your student loans until they are paid off– and then focus on pre-paying the mortgage.
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I agree with Jim Z about paying off the student loan. In my personal experience, nothing makes me feel farther ahead in life than paying off debt. (Especially student loan debt because it sticks with you forever, no matter what) Also, maybe the “zero balance” budgeting style could help her. If every penny has a destination, maybe she wouldn’t feel so lost?
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Oh, how I wish I was where Sara is when I was only 24. Trust me Sara, 20 years from now I promise you will look back on the things you are doing now and be thankful that you did them.
There are many, MANY people out there who are twice your age who aren’t doing even half the things you are doing to save and build wealth. It will pay off in time. Patience.
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Sara,
If your name was Francis, this would make more sense:
Lighten up, Sara.
You need a plan and some goals. It’s obvious that you have a decent income, since you can support paying a mortgage (and then some), pay your student loans (and then some), save in a regular savings account, fund a Roth, etc. These are all good things to do and it’s very responsible of you to do so. That’s good and more people should be doing something like this.
On the other hand, you are 24 and are working an extra job to pile up money. No wonder you aren’t liking life right now. At any point in your life, you are allowed to be “responsibly irresponsible”. You’re spending all of your money on saving … which is only one of the things you can use money for. You might want to figure out what you want to DO in life, as I’m guessing that you aren’t content with paying down debt and living frugally and there’s something else you want to do. So it’s time for some questions, like:
- Do you REALLY need to work the second job? What would happen if you quit? Would you get back the ability to do things you like to do? See friends/family, see movies, play games, etc? Your extra job is taking away the most precious resource — time. You don’t mention kids, but do mention that you pay half a mortgage. So I’m guessing you are living with someone, and eventually that generally means kids. You are squandering the time you can use to take a “big trip” if you want — drive cross-country, see the National Parks, see Asia, go to Europe, etc.
Overall, though, you are chipping away at a lot of big things and you aren’t going to “win” on any of them anytime soon. It seems like the $4K student loan would be the easiest to take out. Stop contributing extra to the mortgage and the IRA, and savings if you have enough for an emergency fund, and just PAY IT OFF. Or, if you already have 3-6 months of expenses in the bank, just pay it off.
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Sara should perhaps read the 4 hour work week by Tim Ferriss and look at the ‘mini-retirements’ section…no point driving herself to ill-health due to exhaustion just to be financially secure. A trip to Europe sounds like a great idea and would surely re-invigorate her!
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Sara,
You’re paying down only $4000 of student debt and it will take years to pay off? That’s crazy! With the market the way it is right now, you’re much, much better off paying down that debt than saving extra in a plain-jane savings account. Give yourself a quick victory (and get a 2.5% rate of return – not exactly, but close enough) by paying off that student debt! Forget abut extra on the mortgage while you pay off the student loan; it would be great to have the mortgage paid off, but it’s going to take a while and you need a psychological boost.
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This is where the psychology of Dave Ramsey’s debt snowball is most critical. Yes, by using his method you lose out on a few things (like no retirement saving until your debts are gone). Dave recommends the gazelle-like intensity which Sara seems to have, but has been pursuing too many goals at once and for too long. I did this for 8 months when I was paying off my car (a MINI, no less) and it was grueling.
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I would encourage Sara to take a longer view. She is young and most likely has only been in the market a few years. Unfortunately for her, these have been some cruddy years, with low interest rates and a big stock market crash, meaning that she seems to be getting nowhere. But she has amazing habits in place now. Even just socking all that money away — without interest — will eventually start building up. Perhaps it would inspire her to review some historical data about market ups and downs or interest rate ups and downs. In 10 years, most likely rates will have gone up, the stock market will have recovered, her student loans will be gone, she’ll have major equity in that house, and the picture will look very different. She’ll look back and be *thrilled* that she was doing what she is doing now.
As far as the small tax return, that means she’s doing something right! Not giving Uncle Sam an interest-free loan with money.
And I agree — have some fun to celebrate the good values you’ve set in place.
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The balanced money formula has really changed things for me (not that I’m there yet… but getting closer). I used to just save and save but this has given me permission on the spending side. It’s a nice macro view of finances that can get lost in the frugal day to day.
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Ignore the balance in your retirement accounts completely. Seriously.
You’re looking at a highly aggressive age appropriate asset allocation. It’s going to be volatile. Hell, you WANT volatile at this point. If you want to track something, track the number of shares you have, and once a quarter or twice a year compare yourself to an index and see how you did.
I think Sara is doing great, I envy and admire her.
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I think she’s missing the point of your blog – “Get Rich Slowly”. Being frugal and saving money is not going to make you suddenly rich. But over time, she will become rich because she is doing the right things.
I do wonder why she is trying to pay her mortgage off early, though when she has other debt. If I were her, I would just pay off her student debt and hold off on paying the mortgage back early.
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I didn’t mention it above, but paying off the student loan early doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
At 2.5% interest (that’s deductible as an “above the line” deduction), you’re looking at an effective after-tax return somewhere in the ballpark of 2%.
CDs and savings accounts can beat that. I’d just stick with the minimum payment until it’s gone. Don’t stress about it.
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Hubby and I were in the same boat until this week…trying to put money into every possible account, against every debt. The progress was so incremental, we decided to screw it, and pay off our only cc debt. It is such a freeing feeling, even though I know we still have a car to pay off, and accounts we want to build. Sometimes it’s not that you are saving so much that is getting to you…it is how you are doing it. Focus on one debt…it will put off the others a bit, but that rush of success is worth it, and then you are renewed to attack the next debt. We figure with our new approach, even with saving aggressively. we’ll have my car paid off by the end of this year, instead of next, and then we move on to the mortgage!
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In this kind of situation I’d try to not obsess too much about money, which unfortunately I have been known to do (money needs my diligent attention but not my obsession). I’d try to focus on quality of life, particularly friendship, family relationships and building my web of community. I’ve noticed that that focus builds happiness and well-being; it also makes us safer in the world, whatever our income. Here are my top twelve tips on building the web of community: http://www.diamondcutlife.org/building-the-web-of-community/
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I agree with J.D. and also I think you need to work on your definition of realistic success and progress. It is an extremely positive experience when you meet a goal, or even show progress against a goal. Just remember there is no such thing as “easy money,” and we are in a recession right now so we won’t be seeing many fruits of our investments, but hopefully in the long run we are buying cheap and we will be glad we stuck with it.
What would be a quick win and rewarding experience to you? Retiring your student loan debt maybe to free up that extra monthly payment? (I know, only 2.5%, but you need an emotional boost, not dictation of where to put your money.)
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I’m 24, and doing all the things Sarah’s doing, with the exception of the mortgage and student loans. That being said, I felt exactly the same way, since the money in savings wasn’t doing much, and the 401(k) wasn’t doing so hot in terms of changing value. My solution?
I decided to start investing in the stock market as a non-retirement investment vehicle. I have no specific goals in mind right now with my life, no particular event to plan for (though I do have seperate ING savers for a house, my next car, and a wedding). Emergency fund all tucked away and tidy, and with my savings in solid shape, I felt that now was the time to take the plunge and take on the high risk-high reward profile. Yes, it is fantastic that I have retirement funds steadily chugging away and buying large amounts of shares at such a low value, and it is nice that they are configured in a way that will offer nice steady returns over the course of my life. Taking this ‘bargain buy market’ one step forward, I felt the next course of action was to build a 6 stock diversified portfolio with a Nasdaq spider mutual fund attached. I figure if I lose it all at 24, or lose a large amount, I’m still in better shape than someone mired with 15k in credit card debt at my age, and they seem able to climb out of it just fine. For this age, having the ability to put the money into a going out of business sale like the stock market is a great opportunity that shouldn’t be missed.
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I agree with JD, and it is what I’m trying to do myself (allocate more for wants). It sounds like you have got your act together, but like most young people (myself included) you are impatient. You are doing all of the right things, and at only 24.
Planning for the future is important, no doubt. But you also have to live in the present. Finding that balance is crucial.
I can say that paying our mortgage and saving for retirement are two top goals of ours, but if we hadn’t saved the money and traveled to Italy, that would have been HUGE on my list of regrets. You should think of something you’ve always wanted to do and do it now or in the near future. People need to enjoy life to the fullest.
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@Jason,
LOL .. At 24 Sara is probably a little young to remember that line from “Stripes”. And I agree, with 2 jobs, Sara’s probably not liking life so much right now.
Sara, I agree with Aaron. It sounds like you’re spreading out payments all over the place. Having no Credit Card debt is great, but pick 1 targeted goal and attack it. $4000 in Student Loan debt is my guess.
So, others may disagree, but funnel that extra mortgage Principal to the Student Loan. If there is some type of agreement in place with the person who is responsible for the other half of the mortgage (spouse, family member, whatever), and you can’t decrease the extra principal. TEMPORARILY decrease your 401k contribution. At 24 you have plenty of time left to catch back up. If you don’t feel comfortable with the 401k decrease, slow down on the other savings IF YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY FUND. Maybe only $1k or $2.
And finally, make sure you have a budget. In that budget, make sure you have some ‘fun money’ allotted. Get out to dinner occasionally.
I think you’re on a fantastic start and I’m extremely jealous. I’m 46 and at your age, hadn’t even thought of a budget. $50k in credit card debt later, I can see the things I coulda/shoulda/woulda done.
“That’s a fact, Jack”
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Sara – I recently felt very much the same way when I saw that my index funds had lost a lot of money and that the interest rate on a savings account keeps going down. I put a certain amount into retirement funds every paycheck.
What greatly helped me is to see that although the amount of money is down, with every payment I now buy almost twice as many shares as I did when I first started. Since you are so young, think about it not in terms of monetary value for now but in terms of ownership – you’re buying a bigger chunk of each company for the money, and chances are that at some point this recession will pass and you have a lot more stock than you would have if the market had been going up all this time.
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I am in my late twenties, and I can relate to how you are feeling. When I was about 22, I expressed a similar frustration to a friend. I had gone to the mall and it seemed like everyone my age was walking around carrying bags from expensive stores. I said, “Man, I sure wish I could afford to shop that way.” And my friend laughed and said, “I’ll bet every one of those girls has a mountain of credit card debt!” I always think about that now. I never compare myself to others who seem to be better off financially because appearances are so deceiving. In the long run, YOU will be better off.
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@16: It’s not for financial reasons that she should pay off the student loans. It’s psychological. That’s exactly what all the “snowball” techniques are about and why they are successful for so many people.
I agree 2.5% is a good debt to carry, but it is for such a small amount that she need to knock it out, and reap the benefits of feeling that it was a job well done.
She’s needing to feel progress and feel better about her lifestyle choices.
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I agree with others, that maybe focusing on all of these things at once is too much. I make sure I’m getting my full 401(k) match, set aside the IRA money, and then picked my first goal. For me, that was my car payment. Once that was paid off, I moved onto my student loans; this will take a little longer to pay off – but I’m hoping to pay them off 4 years early. At that point, the mortgage will be in my sights.
I don’t worry too much about the balances of my 401(k) or my Roth – I’m young enough (and optimistic enough) that I hope when things start to rebound, I’ll really reap the benefits. If there’s going to be a major economic downturn in my lifetime, this time of my life is probably the best time.
And J.D. is right about the balanced money formula – I wouldn’t say I spend that percentage on “fun”, but once I let myself have an allowance, I sure enjoyed saving and planning a whole lot more.
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If I were in Sara’s shoes (I wish I had had half the financial accumen she has at 24) I would probably scale back on a couple goals, and really hone in on what’s most important. If it is building early retirement wealth, then slow up the student loan repayment and maximize the Roth. If her goal is to be debt free, then continue to invest through the match in her 401(k), but hold off on Roth contributions until she’s debt free. The bottom line is that Sara may just be a victim of setting to many competing goals–still far better than not setting any goals. I very much admire her tenacity for getting off on the right foot!
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Very impressed with Sara’s diligence! Congratulations on being so devoted to paying down debt.
Like others, I think the snowball effect should happen here. Pick a debt (I was also thinking the student loan) and kill it off first.
Someone mentioned having fun now, also. Life comes at you fast, and suddenly, your choices for how YOU want to spend your time seems to evaporate. There are so many cheap ways to travel and see the world…best to do it while it’s just you or you and a partner.
For me, at that age, I had not yet met my husband and was very intent on playing…but without using CC, so I never racked up any debt. Youth hostels and camping are great for seeing the planet.
But, chill out…we didn’t put extra money toward anything until we had a solid emergency fund set. What’s your hurry?
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I completely agree with you, J.D. It sounds like Sara needs to cut loose a little in order to really appreciate how well she’s doing. I also agree that travel is probably a great way to divert some of those hard-earned funds!
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Frugality can only get you so far, and it usually takes a lot of effort to get that far. It can help save up a little extra per month, put that aside or put it away for a larger purchase. But if you are in real debt or financial struggle, being frugal is not going to get you out of it.
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According to the math, Sara is doing pretty darn good! But knowing the math is not giving her the emotional boost she feels she needs at the moment.
The math of this is totally wrong, but how fast could she kill that $4000 student loan if she stopped all the retirement contributions and the extra on the mortgage for a month or two?
Once that thing is dead, she’ll really feel that she accomplished something and she can go back to what she was doing before PLUS have whatever the minimum payment and extra principle she had been paying on it to boost her savings rate.
Again, I know that math says don’t do it, but the math is not in favor of a trip to Europe either.
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I would suggest that she focus her SuperStar Saver powers on one of her debt or savings goals. She is paying extra on the mortgage, the student loans, and into her IRA. Pick one, I suggest the mortgage, and pay minimums on the other loans. That way Sara will run her numbers in 6 months to a year, and see real progress. I would also suggest that she calculate the actual savings on interest that she is realizing by paying more now.
Sara is taking good steps, but this is a slow growth plan. Once it’s in place, it is important to focus on other aspects of life. Concentration of ‘extra capital’ on one goal at a time, and the occasional meaningful splurge, will bring Super Saver Sara closer to the positive feelings to match her stellar progress.
Go Sara!
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Exactly what others are saying, plus she needs to relax into her situation.
By that I mean she needs to be grateful that she’s actually in a really strong position with her lifestyle and choices.
Also, her debt is nothing like other peoples.
It’s going to sound strange, but I’d suggest one other thing on top of taking on the snowball approach. Every time you make a payment on your bills, say “Thank you for the opportunity you gave me.” Keep in mind what that debt afforded you — for example, the student loan debt gave you the opportunity for career advancement, or knowledge, or whatever.
Just say thanks to it. And then kill the sucker, but with gratitude.
In reverse, whenever you save (in a retirement account or otherwise) say thanks to it for being there in your future.
The goal is to make yourself feel abundant regardless of whether you’ve got just a little or a lot.
P.S. — Figure out a way to indulge yourself. It doesn’t have to be monetary. Make it fit your values. But make sure you’re taking time to play.
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Focus on one debt at a time. Whatever “extra” she is putting toward debt, put it all toward the student loan first, only making the required payment on her mortgage.
Just 10% toward retirement for now. Once her student loan debt is eliminated that can be raised.
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Sara’s first sentence provides the place to start: “Although I practice extreme frugality, I feel that I cannot get ahead financially.” She needs to ask herself what it means to her to “get ahead financially.” How does she measure it? What is missing? How does she get there from here? She needs to define what financial success means to her.
Right now she is doing all the right things but all she can see ahead of herself is a life of drudgery. JD gave her some great advice about cutting back a little (on extra payments and perhaps on extra work) to enjoy life more. If she follows his advice it will ease her exhaustion and give her some breathing room to evaluate her choices.
I’ll make a big assumption about the source of Sara’s angst and suggest that she is feeling an echo of the modern sense of entitlement that I see so much in young people (and have been seeing since the 80s – no slam on Sara’s generation). The I’ve-graduated-college-and-have-a-good-job-why-don’t-I-have-a-fancy-car-and-a-vacation-home-yet syndrome. She knows better, but she can’t help wanting an immediate return on her investment, both literally and metaphorically. She is practicing long-term strategies and looking for short-term gain.
The one solid piece of financial advice I have for Sara is to run the numbers so that she can see the long-term effects of her current financial habits. It’s hard to be excited about a 3% return on savings when she look at her earnings quarterly or annually, but if she looks ahead 30 or 40 years she’ll see the foundation she’s laying right now. Same goes with the mortgage and the extra payments. If she does that and also follows JD’s advice I think she’ll find her way.
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If frustration exists over a particular endeavor, it is likely that the individual is too focused on end results rather than the means to the end.
If someone chooses to be “frugal,” they should not live that lifestyle for the purpose of a financial goal — they should live that lifestyle because that lifestyle suits them.
Often, those who have accumulated large amounts of wealth, still live frugally because it is a chosen lifestyle.
I suggest this person enjoy life now and stop thinking so much about the future, which is the primary cause of frustration…
“My opinion is that you never find happiness until you stop looking fo it.” ~ Chuang Tzu
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Sounds like Sara’s doing great to me. Getting the employer match on a 401(k) and contributing to an IRA is great. Only $4000 in student loans is also great. Don’t sweat the 401(k) and IRA not going up. It’s got decades to recover. And $20 for a tax refund is not bad. It means you’re paying just enough taxes. When you get a big refund it pretty much means you gave the government an interest-free loan over the past year. The only thing I can think of is to start putting less money into the savings account once you have a good-sized emergency fund and put more towards your student loan, or into higher-yielding investments like CDs, or index funds.
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She is not in bad shape. For this situation, if there is an emergency fund in place, I would stop contributing so much to savings (since the return is essentially zero) and pay down the student loan debt and then start working on the mortgage. Once savings rates come back up, and the market is starting to post gains (like, maybe around now?) then go back to index funds and 401k’s etc
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Very lucky to only have 4K in student loans with that tiny interest rate. What I would give for that!
Maybe to see your progress you should track your debt on a snowball, as others have mentioned. Focus on one debt at a time instead of trying to do everything at once. I use the totally FREE website http://www.whatsthecost.com to keep track of mine and it’s great. Although it recommends you pay off the higher interest stuff first to save the most money over time, because your student loan is so little, you should be able to knock out that student loan pretty quickly. But if you have credit card debt that should be your first priority. THEN the student loan, then the house.
I think she will feel more progress is being made by focusing on one thing at a time.
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@Craig [#33]: Then do you have suggestions what one should do on top of that?
@Sara: You are doing everything right. And I can understand where your frustration is coming from. You are worrying too much about things not in your control [your 401k] and are looking at your loans every month and get a feeling that despite you putting in a big chunk of your money in there, it is only a small chip of the total amount.
1. Stop looking at your Retirement Accounts, you are still 24… a long way from retirement. Except to make sure that the money is being deposited, DO NOT look at those accounts. Its just a recipe for feeling bad. The markets are not going to improve for a few months atleast, so don’t bother. In time, they will grow. You are essentially investing $ at very low rates right now… which is great.
2. About the loans: Yeah, they take time. And checking them every month only frustrates you. I had like 3500 I had to pay back to my sister and the car payments. Even after I put a fixed amount away every month towards it, it seemed like a LOT. I used to fret about it a lot myself. But then, I just stopped looking at it and thinking about it. Just putting it away each month. A year later, my sis calls me up, says they are buying a house, and need the money to put down. Said those 3.5K would come in handy. I looked at my bank account, and Surprise!! I had 3500 on top of my 6 month emergency fund. So I sent 3750 her way, and I was done! I wont be buying that new Kindle 2 for a few months now, but well, who cares
And as JD said, Have some fun! Life is more than money and maths, and there are things that couldn’t possibly be measured in dollars. If you automate your savings and payments, the little fun times will take your mind off the finances, and before you know it, things would have taken care of themselves.
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EconGrrl — I don’t think looking at numbers on a spreadsheet six months from now is going to give her that big “yahoo” moment. The student loan is most definitely the thing that’s going to give her that “I got somewhere today” moment the soonest.
My wife and I were in a similar doldrum situation, the debt we were paying down was our minivan. When we finally had the means to send in the final payment, the sense of relief was pretty much immediate. We humans are not good at delayed gratification — we want it NOW (which is a large part of how credit card balances get huge). For someone so young to feel so despondent about the financial situation is pretty depressing, especially when she’s doing all the “right” things.
But overall, though, I would say that setting up a spreadsheet that is based on historical (not the dismal ones for the last year or do) returns could help her see what’s going to happen in 30-50 years — and it’s going to be very good. Especially when she realizes she’ll have a paid-for house likely sometime in her 40s, and possibly be able to live on investment returns.
I was going to suggest Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover, if only for the structure — and also to make her realize that she’s already done what many, many people don’t discover till they are in way deep. If she’s frugal, she can get it from the library.
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I agree that putting more money aside for wants is a good idea.
I’m 23, and if I was in her position I would feel like I was ahead. She contributes towards a savings plan, puts in the full employer match amount into her 401k, doesn’t have credit card debt, and has only has $4k in student loan debt! Also, she’s paying a mortgage, which is probably better than rent. Most young people don’t realize how important all of those things are until it’s too late and they have tons of credit card debt and student loan debt, no 401k, and because of their debt payments, they can’t afford to save much.
Even if it seems like the amount of money she has never increases, I still think she’s doing a great job. It wouldn’t hurt to put some of that money towards fun. I’m in debt (trying to get out) and trying to live frugally in order to save as much as I can and pay off my debt. But I also have a “short-term” savings account created by an automatic deducation from my paycheck every pay period into my employer’s credit union. In about 6 months, I’ll have a decent amount of money in there, and at that point I’ll spend it on vacation, clothes, or even put a big chunk of it towards my debt. Having the freedom to do what I want with it (instead of that determined ahead of time), feels great!
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Sara is not suffering from FRUGALITY issues, she’s suffering from INVESTMENT issues! Her frugal ways are likely helping to fund all those investment vehicles. So, it isn’t accurate to say frugality isn’t working here.
Instead, Sara is funneling too much money into a bad stock market for a goal that is too far off. She’s losing too much of her hard-earned and saved money!
A little triage is necessary here. First, cut back on the retirement savings (temporarily). Next, stop the extra mortgage payments. Funnel extra money into paying off the student loan (most attainable) and building up a savings fund (very necessary). Cut back on extra work hours to avoid burn-out. The savings will build faster out of the stock market, and will be emotionally rewarding.
The Balanced Money Formula assumes someone has a significant income, and could actually meet needs with only 50% of it. I don’t know if that applies to most people, so it’s not that helpful.
My biggest beef with this post is that it implies that too much thrift and frugality is a bad thing, and leads to unhappiness. There are lots of articles in the media now that say we’re saving too much and the economy will suffer for it. Good Grief!! If more people practiced thrift and saving, it would be better for the economy (solid financial base), for individuals (security) and the environment (less waste).
Telling people who are just barely starting to get their finances together to lighten up and spend a little is like telling a person who just lost 200 pounds to lighten up and have a little cake! As if the ultimate reward is really to indulge, not be happy with less.
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Sarah, seems like you are beating yourself up for doing all the right things but not getting results in the short term. You’re 24 – so you’ve been out of school maybe two years. The name of this blog is GET RICH **SLOWLY**. Don’t give up. Don’t stop being responsible. You are on the right track. It is your expectation for instant rewards that is the problem. Wait 10, 15, 20 years, and see where you stand, and I bet you will be miles ahead of the rest of your age group. Your are thinking too short term.
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Those are a lot of things to focus on. Even more important- Roth’s & 401k’s aren’t going to be going anywhere for a while, but you’re 24 so it’s ok. Maybe only check these balances every few months. Short of moving your money to another fund there is nothing you can do.
I’d also focus on extra to the student loan or mortgage. We were paying extra on multiple loans and it felt like we never ever got anywhere. Focusing on 1 loan makes things move faster. Since the student loan is relatively small I’d start there and get it out of the equation.
Finally have some fun. If you can’t afford or stomach the plan above start small. Use 5-10% of your income guilt free on fun. Make it a goal to get to 20-30%.
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@Trina:
“Instead, Sara is funneling too much money into a bad stock market for a goal that is too far off. She’s losing too much of her hard-earned and saved money! ”
She’s not ‘losing money’ in that retirement plan, she’s buying shares at lower and lower values. It would be like buying baseball cards and every week you find out those old rookie cards are cheaper and cheaper since no one’s buying them. As such, you go out and buy more, gleeful about your amazingly sweet deal. You still know they’ll be worth a load later when people have the money, and you’re buying them up today.
Telling someone our age to stop putting money in a retirement fund is like telling us to put ourselves behind instead of staying ahead of the game – the magic of compound interest won’t work if we don’t contribute now. Every year counts.
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Perhaps Sarah should ease up a bit, as suggested. But I strongly agree that she is making more progress than she realizes. Perhaps Sarah should keep track of her inputs to savings and debt reduction, in addition to the current debt and brokerage balances. She might derive encouragement as she sees these input totals increase each month.
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