In general, the frugal person who saves and invests will slowly build wealth, and will find herself far ahead of her peers. But sometimes the progress is slow — or even non-existent. When this happens, good financial habits can seem frustrating. Sara wrote to ask what to do when frugality seems to be getting you nowhere:
Although I practice extreme frugality, I feel that I cannot get ahead financially. Every month I seem to be back in exactly the same place as I started the month before. Here are the details:
- I am 24 years old and have never carried credit-card debt.
- I have $4000 in student loans at 2.5%.
- I am responsible for half of a mortgage at 5.5%.
- I work 20-25 hours of overtime every week for extra money to save.
- I contribute the full employer match to my 401(k).
- We eat all our meals at home and pack our lunches everyday. I cook lots of beans and rice and other low cost foods.
- I do not drive a fancy new car or buy fancy new clothes. In fact, I do not buy many consumer goods at all.
- Every month, I pay extra principal on the mortgage and put extra money toward my student loan.
- Every month I put money into an ING savings account.
- Every month I put money into an index-fund Roth IRA.
Even paying extra on my student loans, it will still take years to pay them off. Even though I am putting 15-20% of my gross income into a 401(k) and an IRA, the balances don’t go up. They go down, or, if I’m lucky, they stay the same. Even though I put money in savings, I seem to have no progress because the savings rate is so low. Even though I scrupulously keep track of my tax deductions, my tax refund from 2008 will be less than $20. When I think of what I pay in taxes, it makes me feel queasy.
Why does it seem that I am doing all the right things but getting all the wrong results? I feel like I have been running in circles, going no where fast, and I am exhausted.
Saving money is work. It’s a challenge. Success does not come overnight. And, in fact, there can be long stretches where it seems nothing is going right. This is especially true if the economy at large is conspiring against you. You may be making good choices, but if interest rates are low and the stock market is declining, it will seem like you’re making no progress (or maybe even losing ground).
I believe that Sara is doing the right thing. Obviously there’s no guarantee that she will be successful, but it’s my belief that if she continues to make smart choices, she will be rewarded in the long run.
My advice — and it feels odd to say this — is for Sara to be a little less thrifty in the present. I think she should reduce the extra payments on her student loans (and possibly her mortgage), at least for a little while. She should use this money to pursue something that she enjoys or that gives her life meaning. She might, for example, save for a trip to Europe, or for a new bicycle.
Since re-discovering it last autumn, I’ve become an adherent of Elizabeth Warren’s balanced money formula, which is designed to let people build wealth while also setting aside some money for fun. Warren says that, ideally, no more than 50% of your paycheck should be spent on Needs. Of the remaining amount, at least 20% should be devoted to Saving, while up to 30% can be spent on Wants.
Here’s what the balanced money formula looks like:

This simple plan has made a huge difference in my own life. Because I’ve reduced my Needs to below 50% of my net income, I’m still able to meet my Savings goals and have plenty left over for Wants. But the key is to allow myself to actually spend on Wants. For a time, I wasn’t doing this, and it made money management a drag.
My guess is that by allowing herself a bigger budget for Wants, Sara will feel better about her progress. But I also think that she needs to be patient. She’s only 24. She’s young, and she’s making smart choices. I believe that in the long term, she will succeed. But it takes time. Right now she’s being thwarted by one of the worst economies in the past 100 years. That’s a powerful tide to swim against!
What do you think? Am I completely off base? What advice do you have for Sara? Should she stay the course and continue to embrace extreme frugality and debt reduction? Or should she lighten up in an attempt to find some balance? Are there other options that I’m forgetting? How can she begin to feel like she’s making some progress?
This article is about Ask the Readers, Frugality, Psychology, Real-Life Friday, 20th March 2009 (by J.D.)

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March 20th, 2009 at 5:07 am
I totally agree with the money formula and setting aside some money for Wants. No argument from me there.
But I disagree with this:
“Saving money is work. It’s a challenge.”
To me, that’s like thinking of weight loss as a challenge that can be won with specific things like diets or exercise regiments. We know that doesn’t work.
But what saving really is is a habit. A way of life, and she seems to be doing that already, so props to her. Incorporating the money formula may help, but like any change it’s going to take time to adjust.
My advice? Keep at it and try to allocate some more money to your wants so you don’t feel so run down about your saving. You’re doing the right thing and soon enough your habits will become second nature. It’s not easy, but you’re doing the right thing—take solace in that.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:11 am
Whoa! You’re maxing out your employer match, paying down a mortgage, contributing to a Roth, and building up an emergency fund…and you feel like you’re getting nowhere?
Sara, you are making fantastic progress toward financial independence!
Whether the balances in your IRA and 401k happen to go up each month is beside the point right now. You’re only 24. You’re accumulating shares, which will certainly appreciate in value between now and the time you retire.
Regardless of what changes you decide to make, please recognize that you are making a lot of progress. Good work!
March 20th, 2009 at 5:13 am
I agree J.D. she needs to stop paying the extra money on her student loans if they are at 2.5% thats great puting extra money to that when funds could be used elsewhere. I also agree that at her age and low rate making additional morgage payments is not needed. As for her account balance she is gaining shares which is important because when things rebound those shares shes buying now at a discount will return great profits.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:15 am
I think the last post is correct. Sara, right now it’s not a big deal that your 401k and IRA are not going up. In fact, your better off in the long run since your only 24. Right now you are purchasing mutual funds at a huge discount. When the market turns around (and it will) you will be in great shape.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:16 am
I agree that Sara is making smart choices that will definitely help her in the long run. I would like to know more about her goals, though. WHY is she working so hard to prepay the mortgage? Does she have a goal to be mortgage-free in a certain period of time? She is doing the “right” things, but it could be useful for her to look at why she’s doing them and then assess if this is the best way to achieve her goals.
For example, one of our goals right now is to pay off our current car loan (our only non-mortgage debt) and to save for the next car we’ll need to buy to avoid financing it. Sure, we’d like to pay off our mortgage sooner rather than later, but right now, not having car payments is more crucial to achieving our immediate goals. Once this is taken care of, it’s likely we will put more money on the mortgage, but not until then.
I’ve read that when giving to charities, it’s often best to give $100 to one charity rather than $25 to four. The idea is that your money does more good that way. If Sara doesn’t want to pull out some of the money for fun, as J.D. suggested (a great idea, I think) perhaps she could choose between additional payments on the student loans and additional payments on the mortgage — rather than putting a little on each, combine the money and put it all on one. She may see more progress that way, which may have a positive psychological effect, giving her a sense that her hard work is doing some good.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:21 am
I like the tide analogy you use there. I think Sara and myself alike can agree that while we’re swimming against the tide there are a lot of people being swept away and drowning.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:23 am
Agree w/ #2. I don’t know how you feel like you are getting nowhere if you are paying down principal, saving and contributing to your retirement. Sounds to me like you are doing fantastic.
Plus $4000 in student loans shouldn’t take you years to pay off if you are able to make all those contributions.
Maybe take the extra you are paying on your mortgage and pay off your student loans.
Is the other 50% contributor to the mortgage also matching your ‘extra’? If not, you need to stop that right now.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:28 am
I agree with Beth - putting all of your money toward one debt, so you can “cross it off the list” will give you a sense of accomplishment. So - if you only have 2 debts, but all of your extra money toward your student loans until they are paid off– and then focus on pre-paying the mortgage.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:29 am
I agree with Jim Z about paying off the student loan. In my personal experience, nothing makes me feel farther ahead in life than paying off debt. (Especially student loan debt because it sticks with you forever, no matter what) Also, maybe the “zero balance” budgeting style could help her. If every penny has a destination, maybe she wouldn’t feel so lost?
March 20th, 2009 at 5:32 am
Oh, how I wish I was where Sara is when I was only 24. Trust me Sara, 20 years from now I promise you will look back on the things you are doing now and be thankful that you did them.
There are many, MANY people out there who are twice your age who aren’t doing even half the things you are doing to save and build wealth. It will pay off in time. Patience.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:32 am
Sara,
If your name was Francis, this would make more sense:
Lighten up, Sara.
You need a plan and some goals. It’s obvious that you have a decent income, since you can support paying a mortgage (and then some), pay your student loans (and then some), save in a regular savings account, fund a Roth, etc. These are all good things to do and it’s very responsible of you to do so. That’s good and more people should be doing something like this.
On the other hand, you are 24 and are working an extra job to pile up money. No wonder you aren’t liking life right now. At any point in your life, you are allowed to be “responsibly irresponsible”. You’re spending all of your money on saving … which is only one of the things you can use money for. You might want to figure out what you want to DO in life, as I’m guessing that you aren’t content with paying down debt and living frugally and there’s something else you want to do. So it’s time for some questions, like:
- Do you REALLY need to work the second job? What would happen if you quit? Would you get back the ability to do things you like to do? See friends/family, see movies, play games, etc? Your extra job is taking away the most precious resource — time. You don’t mention kids, but do mention that you pay half a mortgage. So I’m guessing you are living with someone, and eventually that generally means kids. You are squandering the time you can use to take a “big trip” if you want — drive cross-country, see the National Parks, see Asia, go to Europe, etc.
Overall, though, you are chipping away at a lot of big things and you aren’t going to “win” on any of them anytime soon. It seems like the $4K student loan would be the easiest to take out. Stop contributing extra to the mortgage and the IRA, and savings if you have enough for an emergency fund, and just PAY IT OFF. Or, if you already have 3-6 months of expenses in the bank, just pay it off.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:33 am
Sara should perhaps read the 4 hour work week by Tim Ferriss and look at the ‘mini-retirements’ section…no point driving herself to ill-health due to exhaustion just to be financially secure. A trip to Europe sounds like a great idea and would surely re-invigorate her!
March 20th, 2009 at 5:40 am
Sara,
You’re paying down only $4000 of student debt and it will take years to pay off? That’s crazy! With the market the way it is right now, you’re much, much better off paying down that debt than saving extra in a plain-jane savings account. Give yourself a quick victory (and get a 2.5% rate of return - not exactly, but close enough) by paying off that student debt! Forget abut extra on the mortgage while you pay off the student loan; it would be great to have the mortgage paid off, but it’s going to take a while and you need a psychological boost.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:44 am
This is where the psychology of Dave Ramsey’s debt snowball is most critical. Yes, by using his method you lose out on a few things (like no retirement saving until your debts are gone). Dave recommends the gazelle-like intensity which Sara seems to have, but has been pursuing too many goals at once and for too long. I did this for 8 months when I was paying off my car (a MINI, no less) and it was grueling.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:45 am
I would encourage Sara to take a longer view. She is young and most likely has only been in the market a few years. Unfortunately for her, these have been some cruddy years, with low interest rates and a big stock market crash, meaning that she seems to be getting nowhere. But she has amazing habits in place now. Even just socking all that money away — without interest — will eventually start building up. Perhaps it would inspire her to review some historical data about market ups and downs or interest rate ups and downs. In 10 years, most likely rates will have gone up, the stock market will have recovered, her student loans will be gone, she’ll have major equity in that house, and the picture will look very different. She’ll look back and be *thrilled* that she was doing what she is doing now.
As far as the small tax return, that means she’s doing something right! Not giving Uncle Sam an interest-free loan with money.
And I agree — have some fun to celebrate the good values you’ve set in place.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:52 am
The balanced money formula has really changed things for me (not that I’m there yet… but getting closer). I used to just save and save but this has given me permission on the spending side. It’s a nice macro view of finances that can get lost in the frugal day to day.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:57 am
Ignore the balance in your retirement accounts completely. Seriously.
You’re looking at a highly aggressive age appropriate asset allocation. It’s going to be volatile. Hell, you WANT volatile at this point. If you want to track something, track the number of shares you have, and once a quarter or twice a year compare yourself to an index and see how you did.
I think Sara is doing great, I envy and admire her.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:05 am
I think she’s missing the point of your blog - “Get Rich Slowly”. Being frugal and saving money is not going to make you suddenly rich. But over time, she will become rich because she is doing the right things.
I do wonder why she is trying to pay her mortgage off early, though when she has other debt. If I were her, I would just pay off her student debt and hold off on paying the mortgage back early.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:08 am
I didn’t mention it above, but paying off the student loan early doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
At 2.5% interest (that’s deductible as an “above the line” deduction), you’re looking at an effective after-tax return somewhere in the ballpark of 2%.
CDs and savings accounts can beat that. I’d just stick with the minimum payment until it’s gone. Don’t stress about it.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:08 am
Hubby and I were in the same boat until this week…trying to put money into every possible account, against every debt. The progress was so incremental, we decided to screw it, and pay off our only cc debt. It is such a freeing feeling, even though I know we still have a car to pay off, and accounts we want to build. Sometimes it’s not that you are saving so much that is getting to you…it is how you are doing it. Focus on one debt…it will put off the others a bit, but that rush of success is worth it, and then you are renewed to attack the next debt. We figure with our new approach, even with saving aggressively. we’ll have my car paid off by the end of this year, instead of next, and then we move on to the mortgage!
March 20th, 2009 at 6:09 am
In this kind of situation I’d try to not obsess too much about money, which unfortunately I have been known to do (money needs my diligent attention but not my obsession). I’d try to focus on quality of life, particularly friendship, family relationships and building my web of community. I’ve noticed that that focus builds happiness and well-being; it also makes us safer in the world, whatever our income. Here are my top twelve tips on building the web of community: http://www.diamondcutlife.org/building-the-web-of-community/
March 20th, 2009 at 6:09 am
I agree with J.D. and also I think you need to work on your definition of realistic success and progress. It is an extremely positive experience when you meet a goal, or even show progress against a goal. Just remember there is no such thing as “easy money,” and we are in a recession right now so we won’t be seeing many fruits of our investments, but hopefully in the long run we are buying cheap and we will be glad we stuck with it.
What would be a quick win and rewarding experience to you? Retiring your student loan debt maybe to free up that extra monthly payment? (I know, only 2.5%, but you need an emotional boost, not dictation of where to put your money.)
March 20th, 2009 at 6:12 am
I’m 24, and doing all the things Sarah’s doing, with the exception of the mortgage and student loans. That being said, I felt exactly the same way, since the money in savings wasn’t doing much, and the 401(k) wasn’t doing so hot in terms of changing value. My solution?
I decided to start investing in the stock market as a non-retirement investment vehicle. I have no specific goals in mind right now with my life, no particular event to plan for (though I do have seperate ING savers for a house, my next car, and a wedding). Emergency fund all tucked away and tidy, and with my savings in solid shape, I felt that now was the time to take the plunge and take on the high risk-high reward profile. Yes, it is fantastic that I have retirement funds steadily chugging away and buying large amounts of shares at such a low value, and it is nice that they are configured in a way that will offer nice steady returns over the course of my life. Taking this ‘bargain buy market’ one step forward, I felt the next course of action was to build a 6 stock diversified portfolio with a Nasdaq spider mutual fund attached. I figure if I lose it all at 24, or lose a large amount, I’m still in better shape than someone mired with 15k in credit card debt at my age, and they seem able to climb out of it just fine. For this age, having the ability to put the money into a going out of business sale like the stock market is a great opportunity that shouldn’t be missed.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:12 am
I agree with JD, and it is what I’m trying to do myself (allocate more for wants). It sounds like you have got your act together, but like most young people (myself included) you are impatient. You are doing all of the right things, and at only 24.
Planning for the future is important, no doubt. But you also have to live in the present. Finding that balance is crucial.
I can say that paying our mortgage and saving for retirement are two top goals of ours, but if we hadn’t saved the money and traveled to Italy, that would have been HUGE on my list of regrets. You should think of something you’ve always wanted to do and do it now or in the near future. People need to enjoy life to the fullest.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:14 am
@Jason,
LOL .. At 24 Sara is probably a little young to remember that line from “Stripes”. And I agree, with 2 jobs, Sara’s probably not liking life so much right now.
Sara, I agree with Aaron. It sounds like you’re spreading out payments all over the place. Having no Credit Card debt is great, but pick 1 targeted goal and attack it. $4000 in Student Loan debt is my guess.
So, others may disagree, but funnel that extra mortgage Principal to the Student Loan. If there is some type of agreement in place with the person who is responsible for the other half of the mortgage (spouse, family member, whatever), and you can’t decrease the extra principal. TEMPORARILY decrease your 401k contribution. At 24 you have plenty of time left to catch back up. If you don’t feel comfortable with the 401k decrease, slow down on the other savings IF YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY FUND. Maybe only $1k or $2.
And finally, make sure you have a budget. In that budget, make sure you have some ‘fun money’ allotted. Get out to dinner occasionally.
I think you’re on a fantastic start and I’m extremely jealous. I’m 46 and at your age, hadn’t even thought of a budget. $50k in credit card debt later, I can see the things I coulda/shoulda/woulda done.
“That’s a fact, Jack”
March 20th, 2009 at 6:16 am
Sara - I recently felt very much the same way when I saw that my index funds had lost a lot of money and that the interest rate on a savings account keeps going down. I put a certain amount into retirement funds every paycheck.
What greatly helped me is to see that although the amount of money is down, with every payment I now buy almost twice as many shares as I did when I first started. Since you are so young, think about it not in terms of monetary value for now but in terms of ownership - you’re buying a bigger chunk of each company for the money, and chances are that at some point this recession will pass and you have a lot more stock than you would have if the market had been going up all this time.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:16 am
I am in my late twenties, and I can relate to how you are feeling. When I was about 22, I expressed a similar frustration to a friend. I had gone to the mall and it seemed like everyone my age was walking around carrying bags from expensive stores. I said, “Man, I sure wish I could afford to shop that way.” And my friend laughed and said, “I’ll bet every one of those girls has a mountain of credit card debt!” I always think about that now. I never compare myself to others who seem to be better off financially because appearances are so deceiving. In the long run, YOU will be better off.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:16 am
@16: It’s not for financial reasons that she should pay off the student loans. It’s psychological. That’s exactly what all the “snowball” techniques are about and why they are successful for so many people.
I agree 2.5% is a good debt to carry, but it is for such a small amount that she need to knock it out, and reap the benefits of feeling that it was a job well done.
She’s needing to feel progress and feel better about her lifestyle choices.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:19 am
I agree with others, that maybe focusing on all of these things at once is too much. I make sure I’m getting my full 401(k) match, set aside the IRA money, and then picked my first goal. For me, that was my car payment. Once that was paid off, I moved onto my student loans; this will take a little longer to pay off - but I’m hoping to pay them off 4 years early. At that point, the mortgage will be in my sights.
I don’t worry too much about the balances of my 401(k) or my Roth - I’m young enough (and optimistic enough) that I hope when things start to rebound, I’ll really reap the benefits. If there’s going to be a major economic downturn in my lifetime, this time of my life is probably the best time.
And J.D. is right about the balanced money formula - I wouldn’t say I spend that percentage on “fun”, but once I let myself have an allowance, I sure enjoyed saving and planning a whole lot more.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:33 am
If I were in Sara’s shoes (I wish I had had half the financial accumen she has at 24) I would probably scale back on a couple goals, and really hone in on what’s most important. If it is building early retirement wealth, then slow up the student loan repayment and maximize the Roth. If her goal is to be debt free, then continue to invest through the match in her 401(k), but hold off on Roth contributions until she’s debt free. The bottom line is that Sara may just be a victim of setting to many competing goals–still far better than not setting any goals. I very much admire her tenacity for getting off on the right foot!
March 20th, 2009 at 6:38 am
Very impressed with Sara’s diligence! Congratulations on being so devoted to paying down debt.
Like others, I think the snowball effect should happen here. Pick a debt (I was also thinking the student loan) and kill it off first.
Someone mentioned having fun now, also. Life comes at you fast, and suddenly, your choices for how YOU want to spend your time seems to evaporate. There are so many cheap ways to travel and see the world…best to do it while it’s just you or you and a partner.
For me, at that age, I had not yet met my husband and was very intent on playing…but without using CC, so I never racked up any debt. Youth hostels and camping are great for seeing the planet.
But, chill out…we didn’t put extra money toward anything until we had a solid emergency fund set. What’s your hurry?
March 20th, 2009 at 6:43 am
I completely agree with you, J.D. It sounds like Sara needs to cut loose a little in order to really appreciate how well she’s doing. I also agree that travel is probably a great way to divert some of those hard-earned funds!
March 20th, 2009 at 6:44 am
Frugality can only get you so far, and it usually takes a lot of effort to get that far. It can help save up a little extra per month, put that aside or put it away for a larger purchase. But if you are in real debt or financial struggle, being frugal is not going to get you out of it.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:45 am
According to the math, Sara is doing pretty darn good! But knowing the math is not giving her the emotional boost she feels she needs at the moment.
The math of this is totally wrong, but how fast could she kill that $4000 student loan if she stopped all the retirement contributions and the extra on the mortgage for a month or two?
Once that thing is dead, she’ll really feel that she accomplished something and she can go back to what she was doing before PLUS have whatever the minimum payment and extra principle she had been paying on it to boost her savings rate.
Again, I know that math says don’t do it, but the math is not in favor of a trip to Europe either.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:54 am
I would suggest that she focus her SuperStar Saver powers on one of her debt or savings goals. She is paying extra on the mortgage, the student loans, and into her IRA. Pick one, I suggest the mortgage, and pay minimums on the other loans. That way Sara will run her numbers in 6 months to a year, and see real progress. I would also suggest that she calculate the actual savings on interest that she is realizing by paying more now.
Sara is taking good steps, but this is a slow growth plan. Once it’s in place, it is important to focus on other aspects of life. Concentration of ‘extra capital’ on one goal at a time, and the occasional meaningful splurge, will bring Super Saver Sara closer to the positive feelings to match her stellar progress.
Go Sara!
March 20th, 2009 at 7:00 am
Exactly what others are saying, plus she needs to relax into her situation.
By that I mean she needs to be grateful that she’s actually in a really strong position with her lifestyle and choices.
Also, her debt is nothing like other peoples.
It’s going to sound strange, but I’d suggest one other thing on top of taking on the snowball approach. Every time you make a payment on your bills, say “Thank you for the opportunity you gave me.” Keep in mind what that debt afforded you — for example, the student loan debt gave you the opportunity for career advancement, or knowledge, or whatever.
Just say thanks to it. And then kill the sucker, but with gratitude.
In reverse, whenever you save (in a retirement account or otherwise) say thanks to it for being there in your future.
The goal is to make yourself feel abundant regardless of whether you’ve got just a little or a lot.
P.S. — Figure out a way to indulge yourself. It doesn’t have to be monetary. Make it fit your values. But make sure you’re taking time to play.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:03 am
Focus on one debt at a time. Whatever “extra” she is putting toward debt, put it all toward the student loan first, only making the required payment on her mortgage.
Just 10% toward retirement for now. Once her student loan debt is eliminated that can be raised.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:05 am
Sara’s first sentence provides the place to start: “Although I practice extreme frugality, I feel that I cannot get ahead financially.” She needs to ask herself what it means to her to “get ahead financially.” How does she measure it? What is missing? How does she get there from here? She needs to define what financial success means to her.
Right now she is doing all the right things but all she can see ahead of herself is a life of drudgery. JD gave her some great advice about cutting back a little (on extra payments and perhaps on extra work) to enjoy life more. If she follows his advice it will ease her exhaustion and give her some breathing room to evaluate her choices.
I’ll make a big assumption about the source of Sara’s angst and suggest that she is feeling an echo of the modern sense of entitlement that I see so much in young people (and have been seeing since the 80s - no slam on Sara’s generation). The I’ve-graduated-college-and-have-a-good-job-why-don’t-I-have-a-fancy-car-and-a-vacation-home-yet syndrome. She knows better, but she can’t help wanting an immediate return on her investment, both literally and metaphorically. She is practicing long-term strategies and looking for short-term gain.
The one solid piece of financial advice I have for Sara is to run the numbers so that she can see the long-term effects of her current financial habits. It’s hard to be excited about a 3% return on savings when she look at her earnings quarterly or annually, but if she looks ahead 30 or 40 years she’ll see the foundation she’s laying right now. Same goes with the mortgage and the extra payments. If she does that and also follows JD’s advice I think she’ll find her way.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:11 am
If frustration exists over a particular endeavor, it is likely that the individual is too focused on end results rather than the means to the end.
If someone chooses to be “frugal,” they should not live that lifestyle for the purpose of a financial goal — they should live that lifestyle because that lifestyle suits them.
Often, those who have accumulated large amounts of wealth, still live frugally because it is a chosen lifestyle.
I suggest this person enjoy life now and stop thinking so much about the future, which is the primary cause of frustration…
“My opinion is that you never find happiness until you stop looking fo it.” ~ Chuang Tzu
March 20th, 2009 at 7:12 am
Sounds like Sara’s doing great to me. Getting the employer match on a 401(k) and contributing to an IRA is great. Only $4000 in student loans is also great. Don’t sweat the 401(k) and IRA not going up. It’s got decades to recover. And $20 for a tax refund is not bad. It means you’re paying just enough taxes. When you get a big refund it pretty much means you gave the government an interest-free loan over the past year. The only thing I can think of is to start putting less money into the savings account once you have a good-sized emergency fund and put more towards your student loan, or into higher-yielding investments like CDs, or index funds.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:17 am
She is not in bad shape. For this situation, if there is an emergency fund in place, I would stop contributing so much to savings (since the return is essentially zero) and pay down the student loan debt and then start working on the mortgage. Once savings rates come back up, and the market is starting to post gains (like, maybe around now?) then go back to index funds and 401k’s etc
March 20th, 2009 at 7:19 am
Very lucky to only have 4K in student loans with that tiny interest rate. What I would give for that!
Maybe to see your progress you should track your debt on a snowball, as others have mentioned. Focus on one debt at a time instead of trying to do everything at once. I use the totally FREE website http://www.whatsthecost.com to keep track of mine and it’s great. Although it recommends you pay off the higher interest stuff first to save the most money over time, because your student loan is so little, you should be able to knock out that student loan pretty quickly. But if you have credit card debt that should be your first priority. THEN the student loan, then the house.
I think she will feel more progress is being made by focusing on one thing at a time.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:20 am
@Craig [#33]: Then do you have suggestions what one should do on top of that?
@Sara: You are doing everything right. And I can understand where your frustration is coming from. You are worrying too much about things not in your control [your 401k] and are looking at your loans every month and get a feeling that despite you putting in a big chunk of your money in there, it is only a small chip of the total amount.
1. Stop looking at your Retirement Accounts, you are still 24… a long way from retirement. Except to make sure that the money is being deposited, DO NOT look at those accounts. Its just a recipe for feeling bad. The markets are not going to improve for a few months atleast, so don’t bother. In time, they will grow. You are essentially investing $ at very low rates right now… which is great.
2. About the loans: Yeah, they take time. And checking them every month only frustrates you. I had like 3500 I had to pay back to my sister and the car payments. Even after I put a fixed amount away every month towards it, it seemed like a LOT. I used to fret about it a lot myself. But then, I just stopped looking at it and thinking about it. Just putting it away each month. A year later, my sis calls me up, says they are buying a house, and need the money to put down. Said those 3.5K would come in handy. I looked at my bank account, and Surprise!! I had 3500 on top of my 6 month emergency fund. So I sent 3750 her way, and I was done! I wont be buying that new Kindle 2 for a few months now, but well, who cares
And as JD said, Have some fun! Life is more than money and maths, and there are things that couldn’t possibly be measured in dollars. If you automate your savings and payments, the little fun times will take your mind off the finances, and before you know it, things would have taken care of themselves.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:23 am
EconGrrl — I don’t think looking at numbers on a spreadsheet six months from now is going to give her that big “yahoo” moment. The student loan is most definitely the thing that’s going to give her that “I got somewhere today” moment the soonest.
My wife and I were in a similar doldrum situation, the debt we were paying down was our minivan. When we finally had the means to send in the final payment, the sense of relief was pretty much immediate. We humans are not good at delayed gratification — we want it NOW (which is a large part of how credit card balances get huge). For someone so young to feel so despondent about the financial situation is pretty depressing, especially when she’s doing all the “right” things.
But overall, though, I would say that setting up a spreadsheet that is based on historical (not the dismal ones for the last year or do) returns could help her see what’s going to happen in 30-50 years — and it’s going to be very good. Especially when she realizes she’ll have a paid-for house likely sometime in her 40s, and possibly be able to live on investment returns.
I was going to suggest Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover, if only for the structure — and also to make her realize that she’s already done what many, many people don’t discover till they are in way deep. If she’s frugal, she can get it from the library.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:24 am
I agree that putting more money aside for wants is a good idea.
I’m 23, and if I was in her position I would feel like I was ahead. She contributes towards a savings plan, puts in the full employer match amount into her 401k, doesn’t have credit card debt, and has only has $4k in student loan debt! Also, she’s paying a mortgage, which is probably better than rent. Most young people don’t realize how important all of those things are until it’s too late and they have tons of credit card debt and student loan debt, no 401k, and because of their debt payments, they can’t afford to save much.
Even if it seems like the amount of money she has never increases, I still think she’s doing a great job. It wouldn’t hurt to put some of that money towards fun. I’m in debt (trying to get out) and trying to live frugally in order to save as much as I can and pay off my debt. But I also have a “short-term” savings account created by an automatic deducation from my paycheck every pay period into my employer’s credit union. In about 6 months, I’ll have a decent amount of money in there, and at that point I’ll spend it on vacation, clothes, or even put a big chunk of it towards my debt. Having the freedom to do what I want with it (instead of that determined ahead of time), feels great!
March 20th, 2009 at 7:26 am
Sara is not suffering from FRUGALITY issues, she’s suffering from INVESTMENT issues! Her frugal ways are likely helping to fund all those investment vehicles. So, it isn’t accurate to say frugality isn’t working here.
Instead, Sara is funneling too much money into a bad stock market for a goal that is too far off. She’s losing too much of her hard-earned and saved money!
A little triage is necessary here. First, cut back on the retirement savings (temporarily). Next, stop the extra mortgage payments. Funnel extra money into paying off the student loan (most attainable) and building up a savings fund (very necessary). Cut back on extra work hours to avoid burn-out. The savings will build faster out of the stock market, and will be emotionally rewarding.
The Balanced Money Formula assumes someone has a significant income, and could actually meet needs with only 50% of it. I don’t know if that applies to most people, so it’s not that helpful.
My biggest beef with this post is that it implies that too much thrift and frugality is a bad thing, and leads to unhappiness. There are lots of articles in the media now that say we’re saving too much and the economy will suffer for it. Good Grief!! If more people practiced thrift and saving, it would be better for the economy (solid financial base), for individuals (security) and the environment (less waste).
Telling people who are just barely starting to get their finances together to lighten up and spend a little is like telling a person who just lost 200 pounds to lighten up and have a little cake! As if the ultimate reward is really to indulge, not be happy with less.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:29 am
Sarah, seems like you are beating yourself up for doing all the right things but not getting results in the short term. You’re 24 - so you’ve been out of school maybe two years. The name of this blog is GET RICH **SLOWLY**. Don’t give up. Don’t stop being responsible. You are on the right track. It is your expectation for instant rewards that is the problem. Wait 10, 15, 20 years, and see where you stand, and I bet you will be miles ahead of the rest of your age group. Your are thinking too short term.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Those are a lot of things to focus on. Even more important- Roth’s & 401k’s aren’t going to be going anywhere for a while, but you’re 24 so it’s ok. Maybe only check these balances every few months. Short of moving your money to another fund there is nothing you can do.
I’d also focus on extra to the student loan or mortgage. We were paying extra on multiple loans and it felt like we never ever got anywhere. Focusing on 1 loan makes things move faster. Since the student loan is relatively small I’d start there and get it out of the equation.
Finally have some fun. If you can’t afford or stomach the plan above start small. Use 5-10% of your income guilt free on fun. Make it a goal to get to 20-30%.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:36 am
@Trina:
“Instead, Sara is funneling too much money into a bad stock market for a goal that is too far off. She’s losing too much of her hard-earned and saved money! ”
She’s not ‘losing money’ in that retirement plan, she’s buying shares at lower and lower values. It would be like buying baseball cards and every week you find out those old rookie cards are cheaper and cheaper since no one’s buying them. As such, you go out and buy more, gleeful about your amazingly sweet deal. You still know they’ll be worth a load later when people have the money, and you’re buying them up today.
Telling someone our age to stop putting money in a retirement fund is like telling us to put ourselves behind instead of staying ahead of the game - the magic of compound interest won’t work if we don’t contribute now. Every year counts.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:40 am
Perhaps Sarah should ease up a bit, as suggested. But I strongly agree that she is making more progress than she realizes. Perhaps Sarah should keep track of her inputs to savings and debt reduction, in addition to the current debt and brokerage balances. She might derive encouragement as she sees these input totals increase each month.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Something that has helped me a lot has been keeping a running total of the number of stock I have in each fund after I buy. I started this back in March 2008 when I was feeling discouraged with the ever-dropping amount in my TSP (I, like Sara, am 24) and this has really helped me see how much progress I’m still making. On the day that my contribution posts, I log in and write down the number of shares I now have in each of my three funds. I also keep track of the balance and how much I have contributed ever (again, easy because I’m young) so I can see how much my investment is really down. The satisfying part, though, is where I multiply my current share amounts by the price of the shares on the day I started this — March 14th 2008. From that, I can tell that even if the market only goes back to that amount, I’ll have gains of 33% right now compared to what I’ve paid in. So while a year later I’m down 31.8%, I know that I really have made progress. Since I’m only 24, I feel confident that the stock market will be at least that high in price when I retire, though most likely will have gains beyond what was already a crappier time.
If nothing else, I can tell you that I own 317 more shares than I did last year.
See, progress.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Sara should first take a deep breath and stop being so hard on herself. She is very young and has her head on straight. The fact that she is even paying attention to her investments and finances says a great deal about who she is. She is destined to be a millionaire. Trust that. Secondly please don’t listen to any of these idiots, yes idiots who say she shouldn’t pay off her student loans early simply because of the interest rate she has. “Sallie Mae” still has a spare bedroom in those peoples homes and they’ve been out of school for 2 decades. Idiots. Thirdly I agree 100% with everyone who says she should not be concerned with maxing our her Roth IRA yearly. She definitely should NOT be investing 15 percent of her income at this point. She is trying to juggle too many balls at once. She needs to prioritize. She should budget money for fun with every paycheck. It may not be as much as she’d like every week but she needs to blow some. She needs to start with budgeting. Spend every dollar on paper on purpose, establish a small emergency fund, get completely out of debt with everything except the house as quickly as she can, then contribute aggressively to her retirement funds. But before any of that, she should read Dave Ramsey’s The Total Money Makeover. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, to not pay extra on anything until she has read that book.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:44 am
I agree with all the folks who think that Sarah should refunnel her funds to pay off her student loan per the Dave Ramsey/psychological view. It’s clear it seems a huge burden to her. There’s that old saying “you can do everything, but not all at once.” Right now, she feels like she’s treading water and not getting ahead because there’s no quick, easy measure for her progress. Seeing the student loan disappear would be big progress, then she could focus on mortgage and retirement. Last, I agree with everyone else that she’s doing an awesome job. Just having a home alone at 24 is impressive.
Shirley
March 20th, 2009 at 7:46 am
Always pay off the loan with the higher interest rate and no tax deduction first then move on to the next highest, etc. Look into CD’s instead of regular saving account. Never carry a credit card balance pay them off each month. I also feel you need no more than two credit cards. One for tax deductible expenses and one for normal expenses. Makes tax time easier.
Also avoid filing tax returns with extensions you just give the government your money interest free longer.
Put every dime you can into retirement weather inside a formal retirement fund, Savings bonds, of CD’s.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:47 am
2.5% student loans and she’s complaining??! Hell, people tell me my 4.75% ones are fantastic. Personally I’d love to get them down to 2.5% but c’est la vie.
I know how she feels, though. I’m 26, doing the full 401K at work, saving aggressively, selling unwanted possessions that were once “must-have” items to me and aggressively paying down debt.
Last year I paid off my car a year after I bought it. Now I’m trying to build up my emergency fund. I spend very little on possessions and I maybe eat out once a week if I have a date. There are times I wonder if what I’m doing is all worth it.
What I try to do is to remember the things that I do enjoy. I love my photography and while it’s sad to be selling some of the items (I’m selling off some of my film stash since I can’t develop it myself anymore) I remember that I still have more cameras than I’ll ever use and C-41 monochrome films are really good and easy to develop.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:48 am
Sara is in a wonderful position. It’s a matter of perspective. From her perspective she’s not gaining any ground. From this 41 year-old’s perspective she’s a model for others to follow. Remember, this is Get Rich Slowly (i.e. in years, not weeks or months). Which, by the way is much better than Get Poor Fast with VISA and Mastercard. Sara, try to look at your situation from the eyes of…say a 35 year-old person and imagine that you have $10-20,000 of credit card debt that you are facing. NOW don’t you feel better about the choices you’re making? You’re doing great, and some day you’ll be very glad you’re toughing it out now. However, others here are correct in that you can afford to lighten up on yourself and re-direct dollars for something you really enjoy. You don’t want to be 60 years old with a wad of cash and nothing of interest to spend it on. Fun is worth every saved penny spent on it.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:49 am
First of all, I want to say way to go to Sara for being so dedicated to being responsible. It sounds to me like you are getting a lot accomplished girl!
I’m 22 and am somewhat in the same situation. My husband and I were paying additional money to all of our debts and adding money to all kinds of accounts just trying to do the responsible thing. We were making headway, though not very much. Once we started to eliminate some debt we got a huge psychological boost. And we let that serve as a little lesson to tackle one debt at a time.
With all of that being said, my advice is similiar to what many other people have suggested: choose one goal and stick to it. IMHO, get rid of that student loan just to get the boost from eliminating an obligation.
Also, take some time and do something to “spoil” yourself. It can be a vacation, shopping trip, or even as simple as taking time to sit down and read a good book. I think that will help you to get a little perspective on things and to reward yourself for all the hard work.
Many years in the future you will be so glad that you were responsible at this point in your life.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:49 am
Oh, one last thing. Trina is dead on and I do mean dead on.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:54 am
I wish I was as smart financially as she is at 24. Keep up the good work, Sara. And don’t be ashamed to blow a little here and there if you feel like it.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Sara (and perhaps Kathryn and Bill),
You’re making great progress for where you are right now. I’m also 24 and my situation differs just a bit. I have one degree and I’m working on my second so I’m still in school (on a student salary).
I had felt that frustration for about 2 years before my actions started to pay off. To get ahead, I first tried network marketing and ended up going in the opposite direction ($1300 in debt).
While I have no mortgage or student loans, my income at the time was less than the total amount of my debt. While I’ve been good at frugality and saving, it felt like I wouldn’t be going anywhere for…5…10…15 years to come. Without any offense to anyone, I simply just don’t want to wait that long. My fire and drive my get blown out by some kind of circumstance (cue stock market crash).
Instead, I opted for the advice to not just save more money or cut costs but make more money. While working overtime will get you more money, I would suggest looking into starting your own business. There are many ways to do it but I’ve found online to be the least capital intensive (i.e. cost of hosting and a whole lotta work+motivation).
Since starting my web business a year ago, I’ve paid off my credit card debt entirely and make about half of what my regular salary is. As I put more time (perhaps the time you currently put into overtime), the returns from the business continue to grow. I’ve already got about 2 months of my emergency fund built up and I’ll have it up to 6 months in…a couple of months :-). After that, I can divert the funds from the business to investing in other avenues or right back into building another.
Rinse, wash, repeat until income far exceeds expenses and you’re free. On this plan, complete financial freedom will take me 5 years (and that’s being conservative).
I’d definitely look into it. If you don’t feel like you’re web savvy, there are a number of affordable programs on the market that show how to build a profitable web business. Also, if you’re not keen to doing business offline, there is probably some skill or specialized knowledge (or hobby) that you have that could be a jump off point for possible offline (or online) businesses.
Hope this helps. The more money everyone makes is the better we all do.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:01 am
I think she should try really hard to get rid of the student loan debt. It’s only 4K. I paid off my 7K loan in 5 months. Granted, I did put a LOT of money towards it, but I feel a lot better now. It’s just another thing hanging over her head. Even if interest is low, there’s no sense in carrying that debt.
Good for her on the mortgage payments! Of course paying down a mortgage is a long-term thing so she won’t see immediate satisfaction, but she started early and I think many people would be way better off if they followed her example. If she can afford to keep the additional payments up, then she should.
The way the economy is, her investments accounts probably are losing $$$, but that’s normal. Everyone’s is. She should continue putting money into them. I don’t know much about investing (I’m 23 and still in the paying off debt/building emergency fund stage), but maybe she should talk to a financial expert.
I agree she should budget in some money for fun. She seems very level-headed and to be on the right track, so it’s not like she will screw herself over if she spends some money now and then.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:02 am
I agree JD, Sarah needs to add a little fun!
Sarah should realize that if building great habits for a lifetime is the goal, she is doing FAB.
If the idea is to build wealth, during a global recession is not the time to look for results. My 401K has lost close to 50% of its value in the past year, but I am still contributing, because I want to always be in the habit of putting that money away (yes I am paying attention to allocation and risk!).
March 20th, 2009 at 8:04 am
Extra thought:
To echo other comments. Schedule money for fun!
If you use Mint.com, be sure to put a budget in for entertainment. Depending on your income let it be $100-$300 per month.
10% Savings
10% Debt
10% Fun
70% Expenses
That’s what my paycheck looks like each month with the exception of revenue from business. That goes straight to the ‘6 months of wealth’ account. Increase your income, maintain your means, and set it all on autopilot…including having fun money each month
March 20th, 2009 at 8:08 am
@Marc:
I really like what you’re doing there Marc, taking that extra time and turning it not only into additional income, but additional income that has an accelerated growth model. I myself find myself having spare time and was wondering what others here think I should do with it?
Should I go back to to school and persue a Master’s in Accounting? Take on overtime work or a part-time job? Put effort into hobbies, self betterment and my health? Enjoy my freedom while I have it?
Right now I’m ‘enjoying’ my freedom, but often I find this fairly unfulfilling, and I know I suffer some small degree of guilt knowing I could be more productive to society in my ‘vibrant youth’.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:09 am
She isn’t focusing her efforts on one thing. She should accelerate her debt-payment on either the car or the home, not both, and she should probably consider her goals, short-term and long-term. Saving for retirement and not for other big and short term goals (e.g. wedding, baby, education) might mean she is not as ahead as she thought later on.
She is more likely to see results with a snowball plan.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Saving money in 401(k), Roth IRA, savings account, etc. IS in fact getting ahead. The letter writer is choosing to not spend on material luxuries that are external indicators of “getting ahead”.
If she wants more material wealth, she can pursue a better paying job/career to have more discretionary income.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:19 am
I think Sara’s looking in the wrong place for results. I mean, *everyone’s* retirement funds are staying the same or falling despite continued contributions. That’s because the world economy is in a jam. No matter what you do right now, you’re not going to see an increase there.
But wait until the economy turns around. You’re currently, in effect, buying into stocks and funds while they’re undervalued. In a few years, they’ll be back up to normal values, and you’ll see your funds soar.
Sara, you’re doing great on everything that’s within your control. You’re not going to see the numbers you want to see because of factors out of your control. I agree with JD’s suggestion that you invest a little money in something that makes you feel good - think of it as frugal compared to therapy.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:21 am
I’ve never seen that chart before, but I wish I would have seen it years ago. Because I’ve spent so much time trying to get somewhere on my debt (only school loans left - yay!) I sometimes have a hard time getting the things I want or even some things that I need. That balance is something I want to work toward, but I think it will take time, especially until I feel like I’ve gotten somewhere on saving for a house etc.
I think you’re right that we often forget in our fast food culture is that it does take time. “Why isn’t this immediate?” we may think and get frustrated along the way. I have to remember that it’s about direction and progress as much as it is about numbers.
My last thought about this is something my husband reminds me every time I look at my investments and say: Ahhh..I’ve lost thousands. He always responds - you haven’t lost anything. You still have the same amount of shares that you had when you started. You can only say you’ve lost something if you’re looking to take it out, then you can look at what you’ve gained or lost. Since your investing for the long term, you haven’t lost anything yet.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:27 am
@ Bill
I know what you mean about having free-time and a sense of fulfillment Bill. In Getting Things Done, David Allen explains how we have things parked in the back of our mind that act like psychological ball and chains. Until you set a specific time to deal with it or get to dealing with it, it gnaws at your subconscious and you’ll never be 100% effective in what you do…even if what you’re doing is just having fun.
If you’re looking to figure out what you want to do, (and this goes for Sara and everyone else as well), try going here:
http://passionpuzzle.com/
It’s a tool related to the Power of Focus for College Students (which I wish I read my first year in college and not my last) that helps you find what your life’s passion/dream career should/would include.
For me, it’s business and generating revenue through an ‘accelerated growth model’ because I feel like if I have the time, energy, and motivation to pull it off, I better get crackin on it. That may or may not be for you. However, if you know what drives/interests you and think other people have similar interests, then there’s probably some kind of good/service that they would find value in and willingly give you money for it.
Find that and you have your business. All that’s next is a little research on target markets/demand, supply (competition) and then you can hop to providing it for them.
While investing is a way out for some, it’s like what Robert Kiyosaki says about diversification.
Only diversify if you’re not sure what you’re doing. Diversification protects you from lack of knowledge.
The same applies for business. Go into business in what you know. If you have a specialty, you can turn a profit faster than investing can…especially if you’re under 25 with not too much to invest.
Remember, you can increase your means if you increase your income. Just make sure you’re income grows faster (and have plan B, C & D in place i.e. 6 months of wealth, emergency funds for when your car dies)
March 20th, 2009 at 8:32 am
My first advice to Sara is to live life - money only buys things you can’t get the years back that you are spending working yourself to death.
Secondly, either look at at your 401K options or do some independent investing and invest in companies that you believe in and want to succeed. By buying shares of companies you believe in you will be supporting things and people you believe in with a business model you understand, be it a small start up or a corporation that you like and believe provides a superior product/service. (Great paraphrased advice from Warren Buffet.)
Congratulations! Your on a great track - I only wish I could have that kind of freedom!
March 20th, 2009 at 8:36 am
One thing you can do is try to find a way to make more money. Another thing you can do is learn how to do expensive-but-routine things yourself, such as changing your own oil and brake pads. (And rotate your tires, new ones are expensive.) You can look into a credit card that pays 2% cash back on all purchases (_only_ if you have the discipline to pay the card off in full each month). Yet another thing you can do is to take a longer view of things - when the stock market is going down, it can feel like your investments are disappearing, but that often isn’t really so. Our best days lie ahead — the market going down really just creates a really good opportunity to buy more stock at attractive prices. Hope these tidbits help, good luck!
March 20th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Some times we get so caught up in the savings that we have blinders on. Don’t let your wish to make it all happen now, blind you to living your life. After all the average age for women is 85. If you spend all that time with your nose to the grind stone, all you’ll ever see is a grind stone.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:48 am
I haven’t read ALL of the previous comments, so forgive me if this is repeated, but I’m 24 and in a roughly similar situation. It’s easy to think you have to do EVERY smart decision–max out a Roth, contribute to a 401K, pay extra on loans. For me, I like Dave Ramsey’s suggestion of paying off low balance stuff first (I know it doesn’t make perfect mathematical sense, but it is much more rewarding for some people). If I were in this exact same situtation, I would pay the minimum on the mortgage, limit my 401K and Roth contributions to 10% of my income, and pay off my student loan QUICK.
With that gone, I could use the combined money for the student loan payment and house payment to pay extra against principal of my house and just continue to slowly stock money away. When you limit yourselves to these types of things, it’s so much easier to save for things you want (and fun to watch the balances of the money set aside of that go up).
March 20th, 2009 at 8:54 am
No one at 24 should be paying extra to their mortage: not unless tehy have so much Moola that they can pay it off in full w/i 10 years. Place all of that extra money towards the student loans, and BAM, it’ll go away right quick. With savings-accounts below the intrest from the student loans (which is a really small amount of student loans, by the by), that’s a better investment.
Don’t worry about stocks being down right now: That’s GREAT for someone our age (i’m 28), it’s like buying stock on sale! all of this extra money (and i WISH i had as much as you do to stock aside!! WOW) will mean you’ll have to do SO much less down the road!
I agree with JD’s suggestion of making room in your budget for fun-monies, howerver. You’ll drive yourself insane.
I’d add, that you should only check your 401k every few months: otherwise you’ll start to micro-manage, and grind yourself down with fees. Place most of the money into an index fund, and sit back. You probably won’t be albe to keep up that % once you have any kids (if you will), so take advantage now!
March 20th, 2009 at 8:56 am
One of the best pieces of advice that I read on this site was to establish saving goals to get motivation for saving money.
As with anything else, long term goals are served by having shorter term goals as incremental steps to keep motivated.
How about scheduling small rewards for saving incremental amounts of money?
For example, out of every $100 you save allow yourself to eat out or go to museum on a Saturday afternoon instead of doing a chore?
March 20th, 2009 at 8:57 am
In general, I agree with what everyone else has said. Sara *is* doing great financially. What advice would I give her? Cut the overtime, and cut some of the extra payments towards everything. You’ll feel better about life if you have some time to enjoy it.
I don’t like the balanced money formula at all, though. Suppose your needs only cost 25% of your income? Then the formula immediately becomes useless. It presumes you will make exactly twice what it costs to just barely survive, and that means it’s only applicable to a very small percentage of people.
Really, it should just say “save 20% of your income, spend the rest on whatever”. Who cares if you spend 40% on needs and 40% on wants instead of 50% on needs and 30% on wants? How is that worse?
“Needs” and “wants” are, for the most part, completely arbitrary categories anyway, and we could easily fit almost any purchase we make into either category based on our own justifications.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:01 am
*grumble grumble*
$4000 in student loans at 2.5%, eh?
I know people like to make it about themselves when they comment, but (super bold)seriously(/super bold) guys look at me.
I had close to $80,000 dollars in student debt when I finished college. $72,000 of which was at 7.52%.
You seem like in an awesome place, especially when I consider the mortgage-esque payments I’m paying (especially while not actually owning a home.)
Congrats, but I would suggest trying not to over think it.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:02 am
I rather find ways to make more money cause I have not a lot of discipline when it comes to saving.
And believe me, once you get in “making money mode”, you’ll see lots of opportunity you never saw before.
Making money without working endless hours is also a lot easier than most people think.
A couple of years ago, I was so tired of living from paycheck to paycheck that I decided it was over. Within 1.5 years, I went from $45k per year to $25k per MONTH and I work only 30 hours a week.
It’s all about the mindset…
March 20th, 2009 at 9:03 am
she’s definitely doing everything right.. but just like your website name.. the game is GET RICH SLOWLY.. not GET RICH OVERNIGHT! these things take time.. if she keeps doing what she’s doing.. in a decade she will be in good shape
March 20th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Sounds like Sarah is expecting some sort of overnight miracle, after which her student loans will be repaid, she’ll have a million dollars in her retirement accounts, and her mortgage will be paid.
She says she’s getting all the “wrong results”, but isn’t she seeing the balance on her loans drop each month, if only by a small amount? Isn’t she seeing her investments grow (again, if only by a small amount)? Sounds to me like she’s doing everything right for the LONG TERM, not for tomorrow, the next day, or even next week or month.
It takes time to see results. If Sarah wants immediate gratification, she might want to add some ‘fun money’ into her budget, so she feels less deprived. But in my estimation, she’s well on her way to financial independence—-as long as she’s willing to be a little more patient. I wish I’d been so intelligent and committed at her age!!!
March 20th, 2009 at 9:14 am
$4000 in student loans? Come on, I’m almost 28, and I still have $32,000 in student loans to pay off.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:15 am
Like some of the others mentioned:
Take a break from investing/saving, make sure the emergency fund is in place, then focus everything on getting rid of the school debt.
Once the debt is paid off, resume where you left off, except now putting the amount paid toward debt into your general expenses.
Still be frugal, live simply, but you can choose to spend that extra on whatever fun things come up. You will then continue making progress, but will feel really good about having some extra to do whatever with and not worry about hurting yourself.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:16 am
@Trina:
“Telling people who are just barely starting to get their finances together to lighten up and spend a little is like telling a person who just lost 200 pounds to lighten up and have a little cake! As if the ultimate reward is really to indulge, not be happy with less.”
I would say Sara is well beyond just barely getting her finances together. I would definitely tell someone who lost 200 pounds to eat cake if they want it — since it’s highly likely that they understand that they can indulge in a piece of cake as long as they do so responsibly. Study after study has shown that successful dieting is the result of not only counting calories, but also being able to still have indulgences — denial is not a viable long term strategy. Sounds curiously similar to personal finance, doesn’t it? Spend less than you earn, and budget for what you want to achieve.
From the perspective of someone who is retiring in 50 years, this stock market is absolutely fantastic — many, many fantastic companies are on sale. It’s a similar story for first-time home buyers and people who can afford to buy up investment property, especially if you can pay cash for something. Which is where Sara could be in 20-30 years — basically “independently wealthy”
March 20th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Keep the faith. I felt exactly like this when we were saving for a house. I was sure we’d never get there, it felt like running in molasses. But you’d be amazed how fast it can turn around. I’m in a house much nicer than I ever dreamed back then, and looking back, I can now see how quickly I went from “we’ll never be able to buy a house” to homeowner. Sometimes it helps to write down your goals and every moth write down what you’ve accomplished towards them. You’re probably making better progress than you think, it’s easy to overlook the baby steps that are taking you where you want to go(especially if you are as impatient as I am!)
March 20th, 2009 at 9:46 am
I really agree with what you’re saying. I’m in a similar boat (though quite a bit behind her).
I’m 23, recently married.
I have $2500 in CC debt
About $30,000 in student loans
No mortgage
Contributing 10% to my employer matched (7%) 401(k)
Contributing little bits to a HYSA
I think the only thing that has kept me on track and not being discouraged at my slow progress has been my fun budget, our household budget and “for others” budget. Because of those I’m allowed to splurge on others in need (friend is sick, get her flowers), buy small things to make our home welcoming (household) and save up for things just for me without feeling guilty. Each budget only has a little assigned, but its enough to keep me from feeling like there’s a financial noose around my neck.
Being able to do little, fun things really help me enjoy where I am now, even though I’m not making insane progress toward my goals. Slow and steady wins the race!
March 20th, 2009 at 9:47 am
There’s no question about it- you HAVE to have that balance financially. You’ll get burned out so quickly unless you give yourself some money to play with.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Sarah didn’t mention this, but what about volunteering or donating to a good cause?
Financially, I’m way behind Sarah and I’m a fair bit older. I also feel like I’m not getting ahead even though I’m making smart financial choices. I think most people are frustrated with their finances in one way or another — and it’s hard to see right now how our choices will benefit us in the future.
However, I’m starting to realize that if you really want to make your money count, do something for someone less fortunate than you are.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:49 am
It sounds like Sara needs a better-paying job. Saving a large percentage of jack squat is still jack squat.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:55 am
I would also feel depressed if I thought it would take “years” to pay off just $4000 in student loans. So, don’t make it take that long. That’s silly. Pay $500 per month (or more) to the loan, and get rid of it in way under a year. If you need to, temporarily stop putting money in retirement and savings (just for a few months) to throw more money at your loan. It will be a psychological boost to not feel it hanging there anymore.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:57 am
You are in the same situation as everyone else. You’ve been fed the lie of an easy retirement by dumping all your money into the stock market. You were just feeding the insatiable greed of Wall St. They are done with you (for now). Until there are viable retirement plans that do not involve shares of companies it will always be this way.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:06 am
@V. Higgins — Get a copy of The Total Money Makeover. Knock out that $32K in debt and you will be in a much better place.
@Adam — Look at the stock market over any 30 year period, and realize that any solid retirement plan involves lessening risk as you get closer to retirement age.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:10 am
I agree with #5- Sara should focus her money into 1 type of investment so she can see the gains that she’s making.
For example: Paying down her mortgage. If she focuses on that, she’ll see the gains that she’s making and feel excited about the prospect of getting that paid off. When that’s paid off, she can then focus on investing for retirement. She’ll have extra money to contribute each month because she no longer has to pay the mortgage. It’s like paying off credit card debt, you pay one card off and then move to the next one until it’s all paid off.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:10 am
@Jason to V. Higgins
Yes, ditto. On my snowball right now. It’s amazing, and actually a bit fun! I’m the nerd.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Sara needs to focus. Frugality and saving is great, but if it’s going to take anyone “years” to pay off a measily $4000 student loan, you’re doing it wrong.
Stop all contributions to retirement savings and attack that loan. It shouldn’t take more than a few months to pay that off.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:14 am
It sounds like Sara wants to get rich quickly– house and student loan payments are designed to take years to pay off. I’m her age and have almost the exact same set up, except I don’t make house payments. I make $10 an hour and could pay her student loans off in less than a year.
My advice is to work less, pay less in taxes, and develop personal skills and enjoy your life in the time you save for free.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Great advice! It should keep her from getting discouraged–her savings will go up soon enough, she’ll see her progress, and if she has some fun money she won’t feel like she’s punishing herself for no good reason.
I wish I had that kind of discipline at 24!
March 20th, 2009 at 10:16 am
My guess, as others have said, is paying off the student loan would be a nice mental boost.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:16 am
My advice to Sara is not to check her 401(k) or Roth IRA all the time. Look at it once a year. Have it all on autopilot.
I only learned how much I lost this financial crisis in December when I did my annual reallocation of my IRA and 401(k). I keep both allocated at 90% stocks and 10% bonds.
Anyway, it’s crazy to be 24 and worried about the value of your retirement accounts. I’m 24, lost 30% of my retirement savings in the “crisis” and really could care less. I have over 41 years to recover.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Look at the market from the early 80s until now. Notice the huge bubbles and resulting implosions? Do you know what correlates to that same time period? The fall of pension benefits and the invention of the 401(k). We as a country are fueling the very greed that is so apparent right now.
And then, of course, there is the tax-deferred nature of the 401(k) and the very real possibility that when we are at retirement age the tax rate will be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than it is now to cover health benefits and mind-blowing amount of national debt.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Agree with anyone that has mentioned Dave Ramsey and the snowball effect.
It sounds like Sara needs a psychological boost. Paying off the loan or a trip to Europe would provide that. Of course so would hearing all these people say great job, you’re right on track and I wish I was in your position at 24.
Great job Sara, you’re right on track.