Because my wife I do not have children, I feel that it’s important to bring in outside voices to talk about money and kids. This is a guest post from Cathy, who writes about family finances, parenting, and cooking at Chief Family Officer.
I would never in a million years want to give up my children just because they cost too much. But recently, the cost of having children hit home as I was reading J.D.’s post about the “third stage” of personal finance, which comes after one has mastered the fundamentals of living frugally, saving, and pursuing financial goals.
I have to admit: I grew a little envious reading that J.D. was beginning this third stage. I still consider myself to be firmly entrenched in the second stage — and I’ve been in this stage for years already, and will continue to remain in it for the foreseeable future.
And I realized that it’s because I have kids. J.D. doesn’t. Now that he’s paid off his non-mortgage debt and begun saving, he can think about grander things.
If my husband and I didn’t have children — if we didn’t have to provide for them now or worry about providing for them in the future — our non-mortgage debt would be completely paid off, we’d be paying a lot extra on the mortgage, and maxing out our retirement contributions, all while still having a comfortable amount left over as spending money.
Because we have kids:
- We’ve chosen to have a larger cash cushion.
- We’ve delayed paying off our debts.
- We’ve reduced our retirement contributions.
- We have greater expenses in the form of childcare, clothing, medical needs, and life insurance premiums.
I see us balancing saving for retirement and saving for college (and/or paying for private school) for the next 20 years. If we didn’t have kids and didn’t have to perform this balancing act, I think we’d be making reservations for an Alaskan cruise right about now!
I do not regret having children. You could never put a price on the intangible privilege of bringing new life into this world, the joy they bring into my life, or the way they make me a better person. I wouldn’t change a single thing about my life.
My point is simply that this is the kind of financial ramification I didn’t think about before my children were born. Sure, I knew kids were expensive. But if I’d realized how much harder reaching the third stage of personal finance would be after having kids, I think I would have been even more diligent about paying off our loans and building up savings first.
In fairness to myself, I don’t think that I could have fully realized or appreciated the financial impact of having one child — let alone two. At the moment, each child costs us about $800 per month. That’s the total amount for childcare, health insurance, and the additional life insurance policies that we took out when they were born. That’s $1600 that we spend each month before adding in the cost of food, clothing, toys, entertainment, etc.
When you add the additional “savings” cost for future education, it’s easy to see why I don’t feel we’re even remotely close to the third stage of personal finance — notwithstanding how well we’re doing and have done with the fundamentals. But I’m confident we’ll get there — eventually.
For a related discussion, check out the Get Rich Slowly forums: Staying debt free with a baby: Is it possible? Previously at GRS, Cathy explained how to save hundreds by playing the drugstore game. Don’t forget to check out her blog, Chief Family Officer.
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This article is about Choices, Kids
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Cathy,
Thanks for this honest and insightful post! It was a relief to me to see another parent struggling at a financial plateau, and acknowledging the hard realities of finding the material resources to support our kids.
I just posted yesterday to my own blog the top 10 PF tips I’d be happy never to hear again.
The basic PF advice is sound, but doesn’t cover the complexities of supporting five people on one income.
In my experience, kids are expensive. They add more real costs (for food, health care, insurance, education, clothing, etc.), and also more variables (like a surprise broken leg). Everyone has unexpected needs once in awhile, and having kids makes you responsible for that many more routine and unexpected costs.
To the commenters who suggested that one *should* be financially sound and debt-free before having kids, as if doing otherwise were always BAD, let me offer a slightly different perspective:
Children are not a luxury good. Not everyone chooses the circumstances of starting their family; in fact 50% of pregnancies are unplanned. And it’s not the case that only the well-off deserve children or can parent them well. Many wonderful parents are dirt broke and still manage to raise happy, healthy kids. Finally, finances are an important piece of family life, but they are not the only consideration.
In my case I chose to have kids while I was young and broke because I wanted to be a mother and my husband is 15 years older than me. We wanted to have our family while we were both still young enough to enjoy chasing after little kids.
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@ Beth (#90)
I’m assuming Tyler meant life insurance wasn’t needed for the kids. I took it that the author had life insurance policies on her children, and I agree this is unnecessary. Unless it was a very small policy to cover funeral costs, what income are you replacing in the horrible even a child dies?
Even for a SAH spouse, I would say yes to life insurance, since child-care costs would come in in the event that something happened.
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I love how people cite other countries where “the government” pays for this and that…please replace “the government” with “the taxpayer.” No matter what your politics, let’s call it like it is.
I think parenting and finances are two hot topics that explode when they come together. Saying you should be financially prepared is taken as an insult by parents who weren’t prepared…”How dare you”…”I wouldn’t trade in my children for any amount of money”…etc.
Well of course not. It’s a human being. A child. But I want to be as ready as possible, both emotionally AND financially, both for my child AND so that money might be one less stress in our lives. I don’t want to be a new parent working on zero sleep and wondering how to pay the mortgage or stave off the creditors.
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Having children doesn’t automatically mean someone will take care of you and your affairs when you’re old – just ask the 40 or so folks in the retirement community where my grandfather lives, who never see anyone but each other and make do as best they can on their own.
Having children doesn’t make you a martyr, neither does not having them – they’re both choices, and both equally valid. I don’t wish to have children for a lot of reasons. One of those is finances – I grew up struggling and working three jobs, and now I don’t have to do that anymore. I don’t want to have to go back to it.
I wish people with children would stop telling those who don’t want them that we’ll be lonely or we’re somehow irresponsible for not having them. No one has any obligation either way. If you have them, you should do it because you want to and can take care of them, financially and otherwise – if not, not. Let’s realize that these are both equally valid choices, and that we might make different ones.
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I’ve enjoyed both the original post and the comments. It’s unfortunate (but predictable) that some comments have been hostile. Many have said that there’s no good time to have or afford to have children. I have experienced both involuntary childlessness (due to infertility) and parenting, so I would qualify that statement with the recommendation that anyone who might like to have children someday should control their debt now, before trying for children, because the combination of financial problems and infertility is a terrible burden. Medical treatment is expensive and seldom covered by health insurance. Adoption agencies will look at your income:debt ratio; some agencies request that one parent stay at home for 6 months after finalization; some countries and agencies request a certain net worth (disqualifying many couples with law school or med school debt); and state foster agencies often require that each child have a separate bedroom, necessitating a larger house, and that one parent have a flexible work schedule to accommodate medical and other appointments. You have to walk a fine line between trying to have a child and being able to afford to care for that child.
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@Ellen – I just wanted to say that I’m sorry you had to come by that knowledge the hard way (I didn’t know about the minimum net worth, either). I think it all goes back to balance again, because fertility problems are so much less likely when you’re young, when you’re also more likely to be less financially secure. And of course, no monetary value could be placed on the emotional toll that infertility takes on the woman, her partner, and their relationship.
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Personally, I don’t think I’ll save for college for my future kids, I’d rather pay down the mortgage debt first.
They can get a job while in school, and by that time the mortgage should be paid off and I’ll have significant positive monthly cash flow to give to them should they need a hand.
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I don’t understand why some commenters feel Cathy is lamenting parenthood. It seems clear to me she’s just explaining that having kids slows down the process of reaching financial independence. This is true in my life as well.
Kids are expensive. I have two kids and their impact on our finances is significant, because I am a SAHM at the moment. Even when I return to work childcare will take a bite out of our bottom line. College savings also funnels some money away from other financial goals. Other incidental costs are a choice. Secondhand clothes and toys help a lot.
It’s just a reality for parents. It’s unfair to accuse Cathy of complaining when she is simply pointing out the truth.
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I’m grateful for this post. We don’t have kids yet, and we’re aggressively paying down debt and saving our pennies now, in hopes that we’ll have things more in order for when the wee ones come along (and… who knows… if we can’t have kids and we want to adopt, there’s another reason to have our finances straightened out beforehand). This is NOT to negatively judge folks who choose (or happen!) to have kids sooner: my parents and my in-laws both had kids before they were financially secure, and they did a fine job parenting.
I’m just glad we have the opportunity to get our stuff in order before we take that leap, and I’m always glad to get advice from people who have been there. Thanks for the guest post – I’m going to head over to your site!
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My wife and I just spent 10k on two rounds of in vitro. We want nothing more than to have kids. We find out if it worked in a week or so..
I am still scared absolutely shitless if it works, though. Sound contradictory? It is..
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@Chris: How exciting! Best of luck to you! And it’s natural to feel apprehensive – kids are a huge (but wonderful) change in your life.
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@Claire – Thanks for understanding my point!
@Chris – Yes, it’s contradictory but I get it. Good luck! I will pray that it worked.
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@Chris — We also did IVF and I know exactly how you are feeling. Good luck to you!
@La Bella Donna — I join Beth in applauding your comments.
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I astounded at the assumption of many people out there that kids are going to be around (or even willing and able) to take care of their doddering senile parents. That’s NOT a good reason to have children. I have seen so much family feuding regarding this matter, and I’ve seen too many elderly parents passed around like hot potatoes from grudging home to grudging home, before being finally dumped in sub-standard nursing homes and ignored while their kids fight over the family heirlooms like dogs over a bone.
Besides, there is no way on this planet I am going to take care of my evil bitch of a mother when she gets old. She doesn’t deserve a dime of my money, or a fraction of my time. I’m keeping it all for me.
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Hi J.D., Hi Cathy! Cathy, you’ve clearly been monitoring the comments … do you usually get this kind of all-over-the-map response?? Hee!
My DH and I have no kids, and aren’t going to have any. My takeaway from your post was, if you want kids, PLAN for them. To plan successfully, it is first necessary to think about what your values really are, then what your goals are, then what your timeline is, and then what your strategy will be.
As to regretting NOT having kids because if I did, they would support me in my old age!! … I am saving/planning for my old age, and I am good at making and keeping friends. I expect to spend my own final years surrounded by friends. I don’t have to grow my own.
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I have to admit I just don’t get this.
Once you have a cash cushion in place, it’s not like it’s an expense anymore. You don’t have to keep adding to it. You shouldn’t reduce your retirement contributions, because you shouldn’t risk having to need your kid’s support in old age. Kids just don’t eat that much and they can be in consignment store clothes all the way until they reach school. The additional medical insurance riders just aren’t that large. Term life insurance is dirt cheap, and if you have to pay for a lot of childcare, that means both of you are working which means you should probably rearrange your priorities anyway.
I would need more detail about exactly what you’re spending money on to know if it was justified. Many of our friends splurge on their kids in ways they just don’t need to.
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Of course the author regrets having kids. Millions of people regret having kids. They just have to keep it to themselves because of what people would think if they were to actually SAY they regretted having kids.
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I completely agree with Rika. You absolutely can’t count on your kids taking care of you in your old age. Heart disease runs in my husband’s family, and his dad and two aunts died before his grandmother did. She lived into her 90s, and three of her four children didn’t make it through their 50s. Who would expect in this day and age that she’d outlive 75% of her kids?
Also, having multiple children doesn’t ensure they’ll share your elder care. My husband has one sibling, and he is mentally handicapped. Now, not only do I have to worry about my parents and mother-in-law, but I’ll probably end up responsible for my brother-in-law as well, who’s my age.
So many people base huge life decisions on these assumptions; it’s terrifying.
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@79 rdzins:
Be indignant all you want, but it happens. Especially with teen parents. My husband teaches in the inner city, and he has plenty of students with children of their own in school. The grandparents encourage them to have more kids because they all live together off the SSI checks.
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Kids are great! Have them. That’s what we’re supposed to do. Money is a MEANS to taking care of a family. Good post.
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Very honest and thoughtful post. I’m not sure where you live, Cathy, but in NYC, where I live, spending $800/child/month is probably lower than average.
Personally, despite the additional costs of raising a child, I am so grateful that since becoming a parent I think much more creatively about making money. My ambition of climbing the corporate ladder has been replaced by an enthusiastic entrepreneurial spirit. Whether it pays off for me, we’ll see. But I’ve met lots of parents who have become more financially successful since they’ve had children — maybe because we have the pressure of providing for them.
Child-related expenses aside, consider additional ways you can add to your income stream — with the right idea, some hard work, and a good work-family balance, you might find yourself in the “third stage of personal finance” sooner than you thought.
GL!
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Wow, what a post. I really appreciate Cathy’s candidness and JD’s willingness.
I have three kids, 10 and under, and I wouldn’t trade them for any monetary riches. I am glad that financial awareness/’freedom’ did hit my radar until they were out of diapers.
I can understand not bringing children into the world because so many people are trashing it (the planet) or killing each other, but to think of one’s comfort and ‘security’ first makes me nauseous (overpopulation is a real problem, but this is extreme). I consider the responsibility of caring for and raising my children the biggest privileged I have ever experienced.
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Yay, more reasons for me not to have kids, and to use my money for better things. New Zealand, here I come!
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I posted my thoughts on the subject at my blog.
I loved Erin’s comment (#121) above. I definitely feel we work harder because we have our children to care for then we would if it was just the 2 of us.
Cathy, loved the post and would love to see more content like this on GRS. I’d be happy to contribute my thoughts on family life and kids, and finances.
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Cathy,
Thank you for a thoughtful post addressing something that’s looming large in my future. My husband and I carry no debt except for our (still shiny and new) mortgage and are hoping to start a family in the next year or two. If it turns out we can’t have children naturally, we’ve acknowledged adoption as a definite option. I know from my friends who already have children that there’s no magic amount you have to save beforehand, because unlike buying a car there’s no set price to kids. But I also look at my friends who have no kids and are never planning to (…most of my friends, actually), and hope that my lifestyle won’t change so drastically from theirs that we drift irrevocably apart. I think about the cost of child care versus my salary and wonder if we could make it on one income, and whether or not it’d be fair to put that pressure on my husband if we did. I worry that I don’t have enough in retirement savings, that we don’t have enough of a cushion, that there are so many things could go wrong….
And then I think of my parents, who were well below the poverty line when they had my sister and myself. I’m still trying to figure out how they gave us everything they did and still manage climb their way up into rather respectable middle-class stature. And I figure if they could do it, so can we.
So thank you for a guidepost lighting the way on this journey.
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@post #79
I’m quite afraid it is true. I’ve spoken to more than one person who has offered this very explanation. You have to understand that I pretty much live in a world of people whose AGI is consistently under 22k annually.
It’s really very sad. It’s not that these people are “bad” or whatever, it’s just that since they can’t really afford the kids, they’ve resigned themselves to letting other people pay for them. Their skills in getting this free stuff is quite impressive. They cheat on welfare and on their taxes, etc.
You have to realize they pay for NOTHING. If the state or someone else doesn’t give the child food for instance, the child just doesn’t eat. That’s how they operate.
The problem is that since they know they can do this, they’re indifferent to whether or not they have children and don’t even think about the consequences. Not everyone is like the thoughtful people making comments here or the lady who wrote this post.
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Kids definitely change the equation . . . living space, food, auto size, clothes, and activities . . . to name but a few.
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I think thinking complexly about the cost of children is an important factor of being financially aware/responsible. Thinking in this way does not imply that you are calculating the “value” children add or do not add to your life. That is a separate question. Nor do I think that there are any conclusions that necessarily follow from calculating the cost (e.g., you should wait until you’re debt-free to have children), but just that you should be aware in order to best think through your own situation.
The other thing I notice is that people quickly say “my children don’t cost that much” or “my children cost a lot more than that” per month, when there are so many ways of calculating cost and many factors are overlooked.
Just one example: full-time childcare in my area runs 1000-1500/mo. If I were a SAHM mom, I would need to consider the cost not only of my immediate loss of income, but any reductions in future income/security that arise from taking that time off work (there have been numerous studies that show on average the cost here is substantial). In addition, I may lose opportunities to contribute to a retirement account, future social security earnings, etc. I get annoyed when places advise that the cost of working doesn’t make sense and they only calculate immediate income and things like work clothes, transportation and drycleaning bills, ignoring the much larger long-term income issues. Again, as a result of thinking through this there are no set conclusions, just that you make decisions with greater awareness. In my case, I knew I wanted to have children and I knew I wanted to have a fulfilling career in addition to being able to spend ample time with my kids. So I sought a profession that I love that allows me a highly flexible schedule while still earning a full-time salary. I have used child-care minimally. (Of course to do this I chose to get a doctorate which I then need to calculate those many years of reduced income then! And when you add in the fuzzier costs of not sleeping nearly these past 12 years… So I definitely don’t see it as a solution for everyone)
As a side note, I have found having children quite expensive in terms of insurance and health care costs and my choice to live in a more expensive area to provide access to better schools. I spend very little extra on food, clothes, toys etc. I also have chosen to provide additional security via things like long-term disability insurance, a larger emergency cushion, larger life insurance policies for my husband and myself.
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In many ways, kids can be as costly as you want them to be. If you intend to buy them the best and newest of everything, have lavish parties and holidays, outfit each of them with their own room, buy them a car for their sweet 16, pay for their entire college … then yes, they will be VERY expensive.
My parents raised me on and my sister on a family income of $40k. I just turned 30 and as far as I can remember, I got gifts for birthdays and Christmas, had clothes that fit, was fed and we had reliable cars and they own their home.
We make kids more expensive because we expect more and have taught them to do the same. Most of us, and our kids, would be just fine without most of the “necessities” the consumer culture has convinced us we need.
Oh, yes I do have a 2 year old daughter.
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There are a lot of things that you don’t think of when raising kids. I am totally glad that we had our three, but there have been a lot of expenses along the way that we did not count on — and we are pretty frugal people. The latest one I am dealing with: youngest child wrecked two family cars in three years sliding on ice. The last one was a rollover. Thankfully, everyone walked away, but this added the cost of two cars to the budget at a time of three college tuitions. We have just decided that we will never retire!
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I think it’s great if you choose to have kids and have thought things out clearly. Your life will change for sure, a lot of sacrifices are required on your part, and it’s wonderful, assuming of course you can afford them and not just count on government help etc. to raise the kids. This eliminates basically everyone blogging. I doubt if the welfare families are logged on.
My husband and l chose not to have kids, l don’t think we’re missing all this joy etc. that most parents seem to think is absent from childless couples’ lives. We just choose to enjoy our lives with each other. It is quite possible to forge family relationships with tah dah..family! meaning your kids, and grandkids, nephews,etc. In our old age, they will feel the tug, especially because we had a hand in raising them, both financially and emotionally. I work in a field where you see the really ugly side of parenting, and once when a parent was telling me how it was great they would have someone to carry on their name etc.. l couldn’t help but ask exactly what she had contributed to the world so far that she felt the world deserved her spawn. She was 34, with 4 kids, jobless and on welfare! All l saw was a cycle that was going to be repeated.
Each side has it’s good and bad. One should not feel bad about having them, and one shouldn’t feel bad about not having them. One should feel bad about NOT providing for them, they didn’t ask to be born. Just my 2 cents!
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@post 129: Milk Donor Mama
I agree with you that in some respects many of the expenses associated with children are optional ones. However, for myself and many people, the “basics” which while still representing a “choice” don’t have the frivolous feel of the kinds of “best of everything” that you list (health care, access to decent public schooling,housing, insurance,–and I won’t even get into any associated costs if your child ends up with any special medical/developmental needs).
I think we also need to be careful with our assumptions about what our parents were able to do with us vs. what we can do now, because employers also used to provide pensions, more subsidized health care, and the costs of basics such as housing has grown dramatically.
Also, a key factor centers around higher education. As someone who works in higher education and thinks about this a lot, even low-cost public higher education costs have skyrocketed. (And more middle class jobs require a BA as the minimal entry requirement than 15 years ago). And the financial aid that may have been available 15 years ago to supplement college education has drastically shifted towards student loans. I was able to piece together a college education through scholarships, financial aid in the forms of grants and small loans, my high school and college part-time work, and contributions from my family that they could afford with 3 kids and a family income between 40-50K. I have very few students currently who are able to do the same.
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I’m glad to see people like La Bella Donna & Rika. The reason for having children is to raise a productive member of society.
It is not:
1. To have a mini-me who you automatically think will share your interests.
2. To save a marriage.
3. Because “that’s what we’re supposed to do” — this is not a valid reason.
4. To have someone take care of you in shifts in your old age. This greatly restricts the life of your children to the point that they won’t be able to do what they want to do in life until you die. Do you know how it feels to not be able to leave your house for more than two days until you’re over 50 because of your mom or dad?
5. Because they’re cute or because someone told you to.
If you have children for these reasons, this may back-fire on you.
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@December Clouds:
if only they had this as a checklist for young wannabe parents. i remember a girl in my high school chemistry class saying that her boyfriend wanted her to be pregnant to prove she loved him…. that was a sad situation.
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Yeah kudos to the guy in the magic third stage who will have all that money in retirement with no kids or family – grandkids, in-laws… I hope he can enjoy perusing his bank statements well into old age.
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Ok I’m pretty sure the original poster didn’t mean for the thread to take this turn but Jason’s comment is uncalled for. Lots of parents are lonely in retirement – visit any nursing home to see – and lots of childfree people surround themselves with friends and family. http://unscriptedlife.net/articles/friends-in-old-age
Kids are worth any price to those who have them. The rest of us have other priorities. If we were all so focussed on our own kids, there would be fewer of us donating money and time to educational charities, foster child support, ending childhood disease, child abuse, child poverty, child hunger… the list goes on. Parents (or future parents) like Jason seem to think they’re superior, but the fact remains they need us.
Sorry JD and Cathy – but I guess you know, when you post about kids you open a can of worms.
Didn’t the same thing happen to the “cost of pets” thread?
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You do realize that people WITH kids also donate to all of those charities you mentioned–many people with kids even start/head up those charities. It’s not an either or proposition.
My personal feeling is that there is room in our society for all sorts of people and all sorts of life and family configurations. Kids, no kids, married, single, etc. Everyone’s different and our life stories will and should play out in different ways. There are many paths to being happy and getting fulfillment from life.
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@chacha1 – Nope! It’s a lot of fun, though
@Erin – I live in Los Angeles, and $800 is on the low side here too. But their preschool is a nonprofit which helps keep costs down. And I agree, having children makes me more creative too – I don’t think I would have started blogging (at least, not when I did) if I hadn’t become a parent. Thanks so much for your good wishes!
@Kristin – Thanks for your kind words. I would definitely encourage you not to worry too much! As others have noted above, my point was that having kids can delay the achievement of financial goals, but if you’re focused, you’ll get there anyway. And what you’ll gain in return from becoming a parent is absolutely immeasurable. Good luck!
@tamarind – You make an excellent point – there are so many variables to consider when it comes to kids and finances. I also love what you said about considering the cost to one’s future income in the staying at home equation – it’s so true, and not something I’ve seen mentioned much.
@Nancy – Well said. I’ve always known I would be a mom somehow, but I certainly don’t think less of anyone who decides not to have children. Some of the most wonderful people I know don’t have kids!
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Stay-at-home moms: a few of you have said that your childcare is “free”. It is not. It is the difference between what you could have been making and what you make now (your current salary is zero).
I waited to have a child until I was quite established in my career, so I am making quite good money. That gave me some good choices I could make in childcare and I went with a nanny, which costs me $1760 per month for one child. $800 for everything seems like peanuts to me. I can’t wait until she’s in school full-time and I can bank the nanny costs.
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Having a kid was a motivation get my finances in order. Before my first child came along I had almost $25,000. in debt. Within a year and a half, I was able to wipe out all of the debt while working only 27 hours a week! I was surprised at how I could actually live on less money and pay off my debts. I must have bought a lot of useless junk that I no longer own and spent them on experiences that I don’t even remember.
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Cathy … thanks for putting yourself out there and sharing one perspective. This many comments = success at what you wrote. Those who felt the strange need to nitpick or insult are the same people who stand on the sidelines and judge the athlete.
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@Chris (#110)
“My wife and I just spent 10k on two rounds of in vitro. We want nothing more than to have kids.”
Wow, that sounds so incredibly selfish.
There are thousands of children out there awaiting adoption, and rather than give one of them a loving home (and putting your $10k to better uses, like feeding the homeless or innoculating African babies), you’d rather spend it in a desperate attempt to perpetuate your own genes. I know this is going to come off as horribly rude, but I’ve got to say, I find that outrageously arrogant. What is so unbelievably important about reproducing with your own genes? Are you really so self-centered that you’ll spend $10k just trying to make a copy of yourself to go out into the world and tell the future how great you were?
Is this the same desire that drove Nadia Suleman to have 14 children whom she’s utterly and completely incapable of providing for? Why do we have to be confronted with such an extreme example of child abuse before we’re finally willing to break with convention and question a parent’s motivation for having children? Is the covenent of parenthood really so sacred and beyond reproach that it’s only when an unemployed, unmarried welfare-queen births her 14th baby that we finally step back and say “whoa, hang on, maybe this isn’t right?”
I’m just in awe.
@Trevor (#120)
“Kids are great! Have them. That’s what we’re supposed to do.”
Who said that’s what we’re “supposed” to do? So if someone is infertile, or never meets “the one,” or (God Forbid) just plain doesn’t want kids, then they’re not doing what they’re “supposed” to do? Well excuse me! I was under the impression that the meaning of life was to enjoy it. If your idea of enjoying it is having kids, then go for it. But if I value freedom and time with my wife over some ingrained need to perpetuate my seed, then is that really wrong of me? Who decided how I’m “supposed” to be spending my life?
I really wonder about these husbands/wives that are so desperate to have kids. Is your marriage really so empty and unfulfilling that you just can’t wait to bring another person into it to give you something to do? If you’re married, and you feel like you’ve got “so much more love to give” that you need one, two, or five babies to share your love, then maybe the person you married isn’t “The One” after all, is that possible?
I love my wife. I love spending time with her. I love it so much that I don’t want to share it with anybody – even my own offspring. Does that make me a bad parent or an awesome husband?
If every couple had 6 children, this planet would be destroyed within a couple of generations. 2 people having 6 babies is simply unsustainable. It’s selfish, in my opinion. And every time I see a yuppy couple with 6 babies boasting about driving a Prius and installing CFL lightbulbs, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Because the amount of meat, oil, and freshwater that is going to be consumed by their triplicate copies of themselves will far, far overshadow any token “green” efforts they think they’re making to “save the planet.” Yet they’ll drive around in their hybrid SUVs with their yellow “Support the Troops” ribbon sticker on the bumper, buying organic lettuce from South America and thinking they’re part of the solution. Unbelievable.
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Kevin, you sound a tad defensive. Let me guess, does your wife want to have a child and you do not? Please remember that other people can have opinions that differ from yours that can still be valid.
Regarding the quote “that’s what you do”, read “The Selfish Gene”. In a billions year old sense that IS what we were designed to do. Wanting children is no more or less selfish than you wanting your wife all to yourself.
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I get tired when SAHMs assume that every mom who works is doing it so their family can afford large SUVs and vacations. I am a working mom to two kids and yes, we can technically get by on my husband’s salary, so I did a careful analysis of whether it would be better for me to work or not. First of all, I have a good job with excellent health insurance though my husband does make a lot more. Yes, we spend a lot on daycare but I think I will be a lot more employable if I don’t leave the job market for a few years. I also like how my income gives us a financial cushion and allows us to save for retirement instead of just barely struggling along. It also takes a little pressure off of my husband and allows him to relax and spend more time with us.
I think it’s great if you can stay home but its different for every family and it’s not always the best choice! Of course it would be fun for me to be with them all day but in the long run I think I am doing the best thing for them and isn’t that really what most mothers try to do?
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It seems to me that the point of the post is simply cautionary: “If you think you might have kids someday, adjust your lifestyle so that you can meet your family and financial goals as much as possible.” A related point of the post might be: “Having kids will transform you in ways you may not be able to imagine; your entire lifestyle and personal culture will probably change radically.” Not exactly earth-shattering points, but still worth sharing. I don’t understand the hostility some people have toward this post.
Unfortunately, the usual fault lines between the childful and childless, or the child-burdened and the childfree, have emerged. Of course, children are a blessing to those who want them and who believe that a fulfilled life can only include children (and grandchildren). And of course, children are a drain on those who believe that a fulfilled life is one spent on reading, travel, volunteering, and other high-engagement activities. And some people cross over into both categories.
It is disturbing to see comments such as this, though:
“Yeah kudos to the guy in the magic third stage who will have all that money in retirement with no kids or family – grandkids, in-laws… I hope he can enjoy perusing his bank statements well into old age.”
So the only choice is family or loneliness? I don’t think so. All people–with children or without children–would do well to build the personal fortitude, inner resources, and social network needed to deal with as many stages of life as possible. No one should be in a situation in which, absent children, there is nothing but an intellectual, cultural, or social vacuum. To suggest that a person’s purpose for living resides not in that person, but in children or other people, is reckless. And in some way, that philosophy makes children no better than an emotional crutch. Many people choose not have children for many valid reasons, and there many other roads to personal fulfillment. To each her own.
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I was really grateful for this post because I’m someone who has, for the most part, gotten my finances under control, but who can’t seem to gain ground mostly due to the fact that I choose my children over my work repeatedly and have had to let opportunities go so as to actually spend time with them.
Did I choose this? Absolutely! But I can follow all the good personal finance tips in the world and if the income isn’t there they won’t get me to financial freedom. Because I stayed home with my sick kid for months or turned down the promotion with too much travel or quit the high paying job with the long commute, I’ve set myself up for years of lower incomes and less experience in the workforce.
Spending some years as a single mom, and some years as a stay at home mom, on incomes from 10k a year to 90k a year and back again, usually by choice more than circumstance, my focus has been on knowing my priorities and making the choices I can live with.
For me the priorities are:
- Parenting my children as I want them parented – homeschooling, lots of time outdoors, community involvement, eating healthy food, healthy family relationships.
- Staying in the city we love, in a home where we can have an urban farm. Paying the mortgage drives my financial requirements.
- Living without debt. I’ve got debt on the house and that drives me crazy. But I’ve paid off the rest and have habits that will keep it that way – barring emergencies. That’s the wild card, because if anything really awful happened we’d have to borrow to pay it.
- Spending money on things that build or provide for our long term financial health (insurance, garden), spending on things that provide important experiences for us.
- Saving whenever there is enough income to cover the basics, before going for extras.
I had my kids on the young side and on my own. I was in decent financial shape and quickly lost all that and eventually got it back.
Now I’m only 33 and my oldest is about to turn 10, the youngest is 8. When I’m 43 and my girlfriend is 37 my kids will be entering adulthood, and I’m looking forward to being so young with so much life (hopefully) ahead of us.
In the years that have intervened I’ve become much clearer on what really matters to me and interests me in a way that I don’t think I could have before I had kids. I can assume that trend will continue. While I don’t always have the time and resources to put those plans into action now, I’m glad that I had the kids when I did, so that I’ll have time to make things happen when the kids are older that I never would have thought of if they hadn’t come along when they did.
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I disagree with this entire post. It reads as if the writer is using her children as an EXCUSE to make poor financial decisions. This part, in particular, rubbed me the wrong way:
If my husband and I didn’t have children — if we didn’t have to provide for them now or worry about providing for them in the future — our non-mortgage debt would be completely paid off, we’d be paying a lot extra on the mortgage, and maxing out our retirement contributions, all while still having a comfortable amount left over as spending money.
Because we have kids:
* We’ve chosen to have a larger cash cushion.
* We’ve delayed paying off our debts.
* We’ve reduced our retirement contributions.
* We have greater expenses in the form of childcare, clothing, medical needs, and life insurance premiums.
Hmm…interesting. Not only do I have a child, but I am also a SINGLE PARENT (read: ONE income, same responsibilities). I too prefer to have a large cash cushion, BUT I’ve paid off ALL of my non-mortgage debt AND I max out my retirement (both 401k and Roth). In addition, I too have greater expenses in the form of clothing, medical needs, life insurance premiums (for self), and the alternative of childcare (I have a teen but she’s involved in TONS of extra-curricular activities and heading to college in 1 year) – all while having a comfortable amount left over as spending money and vacations each year – let’s talk about a balancing act! However, I find NONE of my responsibilities or extra expenses as a parent to be a deterrent to my financial freedom. I simply have different priorities than non-parents and I have to be strategic with increasing my income and reducing unnecessary expenses. Children are expensive, yes, but they are NOT excuses or roadblocks to financial freedom.
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@ Kevin, I’ve heard about the “Selfish Gene” stuff too, but I think you’re overlooking a few key points.
First of all, adoption isn’t a cheap or easy process — especially if it’s from a foreign country. It’s not like ordering a sweater from a catalog. I think your ideas of adoption are some what outdated… Unless it’s different in the U.S., there aren’t a bevy of orphanages you can just walk into and take your pick. (Perhaps you’ve never heard of foster care?)
Second, it isn’t selfish for a woman to want to experience pregnancy. (Perhaps it’s difficult for a man to understand). Why shouldn’t a woman explore every option that’s available to her? The fact that you’re using the Octomom as an example of why people shouldn’t do it shows how little you know about the procedure.
Third, as for it being environmentally unsustainable to have more than two kids, well I agree to some extent — but this isn’t China or a developing country. Many couples are only having one child, or no children at all. In fact, some Western countries have to rely on immigration to keep their numbers up because their own citizens aren’t sustaining the population in the long run.
If you don’t want kids, don’t have kids. I realize how much judgment you’ve faced from others because of that decision. It often happens that the decisions we make for ourselves aren’t necessarily what’s best for other people, or for everyone in general.
Live and let live.
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I think the point was very clear. Of course, perhaps since I am a single parent with debt I can see it.
If I did not have the expense of child care, I would immediately have an extra $800 to apply towards debt. Since I do have the children, this is a mandatory expense, so the opportunity cost of having children in this scenerio is NOT having an extra $800 to pay towards debts.
Children need clothing. Their clothing gets worn out or outgrown much faster than an adults. Even using thrift stores, garage sales and the like, for my two children, I spend about $800 a year on clothing. Of course, my children probably do have more clothes than necessary – meaning that I provide the luxery of having more than 3 pairs of pants, 5 shirts, 2 pairs of shoes, and a couple of summer outfits. But, since I provide them with the need of clothing and the luxery of having a bit more than necessary, that is $800 a year that is not being applied to other financial goals.
School activities come up. Neither of my children are in school promoted sports programs currently, but that is more because of my current school/work schedule than because of budgetary concerns. Other school activities such as field trips and simple school supplies do come into play. Say I spend $200 a year per child on these things, or $400 total. That is $400 more I am not utilizing towards other financial goals.
Now, do I regret having either of my children. Absolutely not. It is just a fact of life that when you have children, you have obligations and priorities that those without children do not face, thus those without children can move along the path of financial independence at a faster rate.
And this is the point. If you are planning on having children, realize that your priorities will shift and it may take you longer than people without children to reach the same level of financial independence. It doesn’t matter how much or how little you make – having children WILL reshift HOW you spend your money.
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Tyler, if your family is living on your income, and your wife’s job is raising the kids, I respectfully urge you to NOT consider life insurance as “optional.” Most ESPECIALLY in your case, it’s not an optional! God forbid you’d been in the Towers in New York on 9/ll, how would your wife now be paying the bills to raise those children? Two people I knew WERE in the Towers on 9/11; one made it out, the other almost made it out. Another friend was supposed to be there, but her appointment was changed to the next day. It happens. Death comes when you’re not expecting it, when you’re not ready for it. I would suggest for ANY family living on one salary, the breadwinner, at the very least, should be insured. I would suggest, if possible, that the stay-at-home parent be insured, too; if something happens to the SAHP, what will pay for the daycare that may suddenly be needed?
I do urge you sincerely to reconsider the necessity for life insurance, at least for you, as the breadwinner.
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