Ask the Readers: Where’s the Fun in Personal Finance? Print
Friday, 10th April 2009 (by J.D.)This article is about Ask the Readers, Basics, Planning, Psychology
I’ve received a ton of great questions and comments recently that probe beyond the basic mechanics of money management and get to the heart of why we do these things. For example, Brent dropped a line last week wondering if making smart financial decisions ought to make him happy. Here’s his message:
You and many of your readers clearly get joy from financial planning. My wife and I have gone through Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University. We have no debt but our mortgage, and we’re making double payments on that. We follow a budget, and we invest 15% of our income. None of this is fun. We find it ho-hum at best. What is it that delights you and your readers?
This is a great question, and it gets to the heart of a subject I’ve written about a lot recently: finding balance.
When we spend too much, when we go into debt, we’re pursuing all joy, but only in the present. But when we cut back so far that we’re drinking watered-down hot chocolate, we’re sacrificing our present for the future. A balance has to be struck.
And I do think it’s possible to find a balance. I think it’s possible to do the responsible things — to budget, to save, to invest — and still have fun. I also think that each person takes a different route to finding joy in personal finance.
Using myself as an example, I do not like to budget. So I don’t. I use a rough spending plan as a guide, but I don’t force myself to “stay within the lines”. Nor do I like to fuss with details, so I try to automate as much as possible, and I’m moving toward a system of paperless personal finance.
On the other hand, I had a lot of fun figuring out how to pay off my debt. Once I was committed to debt reduction, it became a challenge to find new ways to save money and, especially, to earn more. How much could I pay off in a single month? How much could I earn?
Once the debt was gone, the next challenge was to create a lifestyle that let me do what I wanted while also providing me with the income I needed. I knew that I wanted to write, and that I wanted to work from home. Could I make this happen? I didn’t know when I started, but that just pushed me to work harder to make it happen.
Although I don’t write enough about it here at Get Rich Slowly, I get a kick out of anything that deals with increasing my income. It’s like a game. It brings me joy.
Recently, Frugal Bachelor complained that personal-finance blogs aren’t challenging enough. He means that most of us write about the basics, but we don’t talk enough about how to pursue our dreams. This is a great point.
It’s vital that you have goals. Goals give purpose and meaning to your financial decisions. If you’re accelerating your mortgage and saving 15% for retirement, but you’re only doing it because Dave Ramsey (or J.D. Roth) says you should be doing it, you need to examine your priorities. These are great steps, to be sure, but you have to do them for reasons that are clear to you. I cannot tell you what your financial goals are or should be — and neither can Dave Ramsey. You need to discover these for yourself.
In Frugal Bachelor’s post, he wrote, “You can max out your 401(k) year after a year, but if you never actually use it to do something, it’s no better than having tens of thousands of dollars in debt.” Your financial decisions must be made with purpose. You must begin with the end in mind.
What delights me? What is my purpose right now? Saving for goals. For so long, I was saving to pay off debt that I now get a buzz when I see how much I’m saving toward the things I want.
Regulars at Get Rich Slowly know that I pine for a Mini Cooper. I visit the Mini website to design my own model about once per month. (On Wednesday, I made the mistake of actually dropping by a showroom to sit in the new Minis.) Because I want this so badly, I’ve found new ways to dig up the money. It’s a terrible longing, but it’s also a good thing. It gives purpose to my saving.
I also get joy out of saving for a vacation with Kris, and out of planning for new furniture in the “man room” downstairs. I’ve learned that the little things that used to bring me fleeting pleasure — buying CDs or comic books or videogames — cannot compare to the joy I get from setting and meeting big financial goals. That is what delights me.
What delights you? What brings you joy in personal finance? What gives you purpose? Or, like Brent, do you find that you struggle to find the fun in it?

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April 10th, 2009 at 5:14 am
It’s all about how we frame our perspective. For us, we attach paying off debt directly to being closer to our big-picture goals.
For example when we were saving for our Australia move, each time we paid off a debt we would literally attach that to more time Scuba Diving the Great Barrier Reef.
Taking actual, physical steps to link our financial sacrifices to tangible aspects of our long-term goals is essential to us maintaining that balance.
If you aren’t trying this, I strongly suggest you do. It’s worked wonders for us!
April 10th, 2009 at 5:14 am
It brings me joy to know, that we are going up (healthy finances) instead of going down (debt).
I find it fun to find bargains on the things we need. My husband finds it fun to work with our budgets etc.
But best of all: I love the thought of my family having options in the future: Do I want to be a stay at home mom? Can we afford 2, 3, 4 or more children? Does my husband want to start his own business? If we had not paid attention, we could have immersed ourselves in debt and expenses, that would exclude us from these options.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:26 am
…same here w/ the MINI. Pay-off/save/thrift/plan….here’s hoping we flash headlights some day.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:27 am
I love watching a debt balance go down. It’s also a lot of fun to watch a savings balance rise when it’s dedicated to something I really want. That want can be something fun, like a vacation, or something more ho-hum, like a new washing machine. But watching that balance increase and knowing that I CAN have some of the things I really want without going into debt for them, really is fun for me.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:30 am
In terms of investing, I actually spend lots of time telling people that investing isn’t supposed to be fun.
It’s about saving for things you want to do in your life. Those are the fun part.
Keep the actual investing boring.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:32 am
I have to say I agree with Frugal Bachelor’s post. I’ve gotten to a point where personal finance doesn’t get me as jazzed as it used to.
When I first bumped into Trent’s site, I was telling everyone about it and reading every single old post I hadn’t yet read.
Now? I go over there every now and then, and maybe once a week I’ll see something I’m really digging, but otherwise it feels like the magic is gone for me.
It’s tough, I also wonder what I can do to make this stuff more entertaining, not just for the reader but for myself.
I think of personal finance as a process that, while you don’t quite “finish it,” there is a point where you’ve gotten the basics down, automated them, and gotten a handle on most of it.
There’s always more to learn, but it’s just not the same.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:35 am
The fun for me is in seeing progress. When you get away from living paycheck to paycheck with zero savings you start freeing up money that can go to you and not creditors. Its like you get a raise in your income. Depending on how bad a person’s money situation was, when they start seeing real progress that tomorrow is better it can spill over into other areas of their life.
People buy lottery tickets and then dream about what they will spend their millions on. Getting rid of debt and improving your finances is much the same except that you really will get your payoff.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:40 am
It feels good to do the “right thing”. In my spendthrift days (not that far behind me), with every inane indulgence and every slap of the credit card I felt that nudge of my conscience. And ignored it.
When the immediate gratification did not distract me from what was really behind my spending (bad mood, feeling less-than, being dazzled by pretty-pretty, the promise of enlightenment after “this book” or “that class”), I felt twice as lousy - my life did not change for the better, I was not a better person, and now I was further in debt. (AM in debt). Most of what is promised through these types of expenditures can be gotten for free.
The psychology of money is fascinating. It’s deeper and more complex than a lot of people seem to think - all tied up with self-worth, our values, how our family made and spent money, and most fundamentally, issues of Power (power over others, feeling empowered with others, feeling overpowered) and Freedom. If you have a spouse or mate with whom you share finances, you can double the size and complexity of that ball of spaghetti.
And finding balance is always a challenge. Now that I’m in charge of our finances, I have to resist the urge to be a Miserable Miser. I know when I’ve gone over the edge if I’m begrudging an ice cream cone for myself or a $10 pizza for the kids. We are still able to make the (large) payments set aside for our credit card debt, pay our other bills, put money in savings/retirement. I DAILY have to remind myself of this, it’s not automatic yet.
I can’t think of a more worthwhile place to delve in building financial wealth and health. Sheer Willpower isn’t enough, and it’s boring.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:40 am
Good morning, JD, thanks for mentioning my post! I’m excited to see articles on this topic, I’m very much in very similar personal finance stage of life, so your recent posts on similar topics have been very interesting to me. Looking forward to the discussion today. Have a great weekend!
April 10th, 2009 at 5:44 am
This is something I have trouble with. I save much more from fear of being a bag lady in my old age than anything else.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:48 am
So how long do you think it’ll be before you get to buy your Mini? We’ve just started saving for a car; ours has over 200,000 miles on it (but still going strong so far) and we’re drooling over the Honda Fit.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:50 am
I agree with what Kirstine said (#2). We take joy in having a lot of choices available to us. We don’t have to be as “practical”, because we don’t have to make as much money as possible to support the life we want. We can let our life goals guide us, to a greater extent, than if we were tied to debt and were living paycheck-to-paycheck.
We also delight in being able to think outside the box, because our financial picture doesn’t require 2 salaries, or even our current earnings level.
And more immediately, I think it’s fun to sleep well at night, knowing that if we lose our one income in a down economy, we’ll be OK and can continue our current lifestyle almost indefinitely.
The joy is in the big picture, not the day-to-day entering of credit card receipts in Quicken.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:51 am
I take an almost perverse delight in understanding the irrational financial behavior of myself and others, and how to control, curb, and reshape it into something useful.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:53 am
I think my problem with saving is . . . I don’t really have a goal other than retirement. My house is paid for, my car is paid for, no credit card debt, small emergency savings inplace (working on beefing it up a bit though), but otherwise . . . I’m doing okay. Great, in fact. So for me, Im sort of saving for that abstract/far away retirement. For me, right now, with the hit I took with the markets, I’m focusing on rebuilding what I already have in place - 403B (10% of salary goes here), TIAACREFF (6%, plus 6% matched goes here) and maxing out a ROTH IRA every year. It’s not as exciting as saving for a Mini Cooper, but . . . I guess I gather small joy in seeing it slowly build back up after this mess we find ourselves in. I’m 25 years from retirement, so . . . working on figuring out exactly what KIND of retirement I want.
Thanks for you great blog JD . . . I really enjoy your views and comments!
April 10th, 2009 at 6:04 am
Interesting post.
Just thinking out loud here, but I think personal finance has it’s own 80/20.
We probably get satisfaction from less than 20% of the things we buy. The other 80% usually is gone without us ever knowing it.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:05 am
The joy in personal finance comes from buying something with your own money without a second thought.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:13 am
Completely off topic, but if you believe as I do, that a high inflation period is enevitable, then why would you be all about paying down debt? It seems best to me to leverage what money you have a little more, and pay off these 5% loans much easier when we see 10-20% inflation. I’d love to hear your thoughts…
April 10th, 2009 at 6:19 am
JD-long time reader,first time post. I think of personal finance and all that it involves as an escape plan. Money doesn’t buy happiness but it does give you freedom. That to me it the most important part. Living paycheck to paycheck is like being in prison or on a permanent treadmill to nowhere. I just wanted to say that “what next” posts for those of us that are debt free and already saving are great. You are the only one addressing that point and there are a lot of us there now.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:27 am
We booked a vacation to Prague in November 2003 for March 2004. By the time we went, we had paid off and restored the balances to our accounts other than food on the ground and souvenirs.
When we returned, we paid a $200 credit card bill in full, and there was nothing else to deal with financially. It felt great, and we have a week of wonderful memories to last a lifetime.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:30 am
Knowing that the money we put away today, from jobs that we enjoy, will supply the fuel to see grandchildren and build wood furniture in the future is totally worth it.
Personally, I am addicted to the market. My sister (also addicted) likes us to gamblers! She is probably right. I guess we are strange- we both enjoy our “money talk” time. I’d say we are pretty good winners at this point.
Maybe, if we had been born ten years later, we both would have been stock brokers (opps- financial counselors ;>0)
April 10th, 2009 at 6:30 am
I agree with JD, you have to find a system that works for you and also works. We don’t budget either but use a yearly spending plan and a monthly allowance system that allows us to save for short, medium and long term goals while also allowing us to enjoy our present.
I enjoy tracking our savings goals (like I enjoyed watching our debt shrink when we were working on Baby Step #2) and I really enjoy not having any debt (except the mortgage) it is a wonderful freeing feeling especially in these difficult economic times. Mr. Sam regularly asks how I knew back in 2007 that it was time to pay off all our debt (the timing was linked to our marriage in late 2006) and how I knew to build up our emergency fund in 2008 (it was Baby Step #3). When you have no debt and your day to day finances are in order its great to go out on Friday and have a couple of drinks or dinner and not worry about money.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:33 am
I’m a lot like Lisa (#6), in that during my spendthrift days, my debt was weighing me down in many ways. First was the uncertainty and stress. I think anyone who’s been in serious debt understands the knot in your stomach when you’re barely paying the minimums on your bills and you suddenly have a thousand dollar expense pop up, and you know the only way to handle it is to dump more debt onto the mountain you’re already fighting. Second was that the debt itself is very limiting. When you squander your money on all sorts of unnecessary purchases, you don’t have money to do things that are important to you. In our case, that was making major repairs around the house. Third was that all of the purchases were turning into clutter, which was it’s own burden. I would be reluctant to throw out anything because I’d spent “good money” on it (i.e. I was *still* paying for it) yet the way my house was always a mess depressed me.
I can understand Brent’s observation that some people take a greater joy in the frugality side, while for others it’s a lot of work. I freely admit that I’m an atypical PF blog reader, in that I chose a slower path to fully repaying my debts so that I would still have some room for experiences or things that bring me joy. I did this because I recognized that, in my case, extreme frugality was not a long-term solution for me. Psychologically, I could only maintain that type of discipline for a very short time before I began to rebel against it and usually ended up further in debt. Instead, I slowly addressed one aspect of my finances at a time. Right now, I’m at a point where I’m steadily paying down my debt, slowly building an emergency fund, and carefully saving up for the occasional indulgence. It’s a million miles from where I was the day my credit card was rejected, and I realized the hole I’d dug for myself, a spoonful at a time.
I find joy in the process in a number of different ways. I’m thrilled to see the gradual decrease in my debt. I’m relieved when unexpected expenses crop up, and I don’t have to turn to my credit cards to handle them. I’m excited when I *do* make a purchase, and I’m using cash that I’ve saved to cover it. And I’m ecstatic to finally be moving to a new stage in my finances, where I’m no longer just keeping my head above water, but I’m actually choosing directions to move in.
I didn’t initially read PF blogs when I was starting out. To be honest, it probably would have intimidated me at that point, as it would have seemed unthinkable that I could be as successful at getting rid of debt as so many others have been. But as I’ve slowly regained control, I find myself reading more and more, both to share celebrations with other people who are on similar journeys and to gather suggestions for ways to either make my current path more enjoyable/successful, or for ways to handle the road that stretches out PAST the last debt repayment.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:40 am
To begin with, I’ve always enjoyed working with numbers, so budgeting is fun for me.
I also get a kick out of knowing where we stand financially. In the days before I had a truly workable budget in place, not knowing exactly what our financial condition was caused me a lot of stress.
As for being frugal, living within a budget, trying to find the best values for our money, etc., I enjoy the immediate challenge as well as making progress toward larger goals.
As my husband and I make progress toward these larger goals, we find that immediate gratification via most small purchases (meals out, music CDs, magazines, etc.) isn’t very gratifying after all.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:43 am
What delights me is hacking & tweaking my financial system: transferring money from regular checking into my high yield savings account, renegotiating the cell bill, killing cable, that sort of thing. I like the process, the feel that I’m actively improving my situation, without monkeying with the really serious bits (401K, for instance, where I have my asset mix defined & automatically rebalanced).
I also reward myself from time to time on the way to my goals. For example, I set a dollar goal for my high yield savings account. Once I hit it, I spent a tiny portion of it on something I would enjoy. For me, this self payment takes the obligation aspect out of the process.
Cheers!
April 10th, 2009 at 6:44 am
I think part of the joy in personal finance is avoiding the misery of being in debt and worrying about money. It’s addition by subtraction, so to speak. I also think that once you move beyond the basics of personal finance and into investing, there are lots of interesting topics that could get you fired up, because you have the potential to make more money that way. I also don’t think living frugally ever really makes your life worse, you just get used to the changes and sort of take pride in the fact that you’re spending less than many of the people around you.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:52 am
My joy in personal finance comes from playing with the spreadsheets of my budget at the end of every month (and often times midmonth). Instead of using subaccounts at ING, I create subaccounts in the spreadsheet to earmark money. At the end of the month when I see I’ve spent less than my budget I get to move some or all of that money to one of my goal accounts: new car or house downpayment. I routinely put money into those anyways, but it feels good to get to put (essentially) bonus money into them.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:01 am
I agree with many of the readers above, being debt free and “automated” helps me not stress about the financial side of things. This lets me see what really give me joy (wife, son, hobbies) and lets me not spend all my time worrying that a lost job in a bad economy puts me on the streets.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:09 am
The fun, for me, is two part. First, I get that strange, excel-spreadsheety satisfaction of a plan working itself out correctly. This is the nerdy fun, I suppose.
The other fun is really simple: lack of worry. I can spend $20 from my personal cash envelope knowing that those dollars are accounted for and not taking away from my ability pay rent, keep lights on, etc.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:09 am
It’s easy for me to find purpose, since I still have a lot big ticket items. Number 1 on the list is an engagement ring (if the lady friend decides she wants a new one instead of her grandmother’s). After that, wedding. After that, big ol’ down payment on a house. In between all that, I’ll be visiting my sister down in Texas (I’m in MA) and it would help if I could afford it.
So my joy in saving is knowing that I’ll be able to spend time with my sister who is one of my closest friends, have a nice wedding to share my love of my soon-to-be fiancee with my family and friends, and to save towards a home that we can share together.
Don’t worry about just me paying for the wedding and house though, the girlfriend and I have talked and she’s fully on the spending train with me. Once we live together we plan on living on less than my salary and saving all of hers and then some.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:18 am
J.D.,
I have been reading your posts for about a month now. I read it because it is more in line with what I believe. Keep up the good work.
My wife and I have only the mortgage (new home owner
) and car loans. I only carry a credit-card debt when they offer me deals. And then pay it off before the deal expires. I used to track my FICO score like a hound dog until a year ago.
But, of late, I have been thinking about what you tell in this post - missing the fun. Am I missing the fun? I have taken couple of vacations in the last year and splurged once in a while. So I don’t think that’s my problem.
My goal is having a fun quotient (albeit small) in my day-to-day life. This is fun sustenance. Without it, as you sa,y my other goals mean nothing. That means for me personally not looking at my finances daily with a microscope(!?!).
April 10th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Good question to ask! It’s not always fun to be frugal when you’re assailed by advertisements and a culture that tells you buying more, is more. I guess it is a matter of balance and focus.
Saving and investment is a kind of ho hum, slow, sometimes tedious process. If that’s all you’re doing, then yeah, it’s not fun and exciting. Are you giving yourself enough $ for things that bring pleasure and enjoyment to your life?
For me, I find saving exciting when I finally realized I am saving to be able to leave the career I’m currently in and find a more fulfilling one. I get excited when I think about how I will be able to make the transition a bit more smoothly, as I’m getting my financial house in order before I switch. Also- I started a vacation savings fund last week. It’ll be a while before I really have some money to go places, but I’m already dreaming about the places I can go! That’s fun for me
April 10th, 2009 at 7:28 am
The real joy is the fact that when I live well within my means I have *alot* of freedom. As I am now if I lost my job I could live just fine for years since I live well below my means and have alot saved. If I keep my job, I know that I can provide for my mom and sister if required. I would simply have to cut down my “wants” spending and possibly cut my savings.
Ultimately it’s not having to worry about money. Not having to worry about a roof over my head, food in my belly, and the necessities….now or when I retire.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Kristine in #2 totally nailed it.
I don’t have any big goals right now. I’m single, done with school for now, have a job I like well enough, and am just chugging along. No real plan.
But, what keeps me motivated is knowing that the better financial foundation I build now, the more freedom and options I’ll have if one day I do find a direction that I’m really passionate about. Slooooowly paying down student loans isn’t fun; driving around in a very un-sexy car isn’t fun (as you know); and skipping big splurges isn’t always fun. But I remind myself that doing all of those things now is going to give me a huge amount of freedom in the future.
I guess my goal is debt free with a big ‘ol savings cushion for the sake of future personal freedom.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:57 am
I’ve never really thought about it as joy or fun.
What I do find is the difference in the amount of stress in my life if my finances are in line.
Anyone that has been behind with their bills and no money saved for emergency knows how stressful that is.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:58 am
I agree with Jeff - it’s the nerdy fun of it all! I’m awful at math, but I love playing with personal finances because I get to feel like I’m beating the system. I am just an eccentric, honestly. I love telling people I get 5% interest on my bank account. I get a kick out of saving 3 cents on gas by driving to the cheapest gas station, always have since I was 16 and first got my license. I get warm and fuzzy when I reuse plastic bags (or anything else) or even drink watered down hot chocolate! I know others here think this stuff is beyond silly, but it makes me happy, and I’m going to keep doing it. I eat $50 dinners out about twice a week, I could cut that out and save 100 times more than any of the other stuff I’m doing. But going out to nice dinner is my quality time with my husband and I don’t need to give it up.
I don’t get a buzz from paying on my debt, but that’s hundreds of thousands of dollars so it’s not meaningful to me. I play a bunch of games with my debt. The only thing that actually gets me excited is when I put together a few bucks to make an extra payment mid month, and then I get to see the next payment take a satisfying bite out of the principal instead of getting eaten up by interest. Makes me feel slick. But even more than that is trying to avoid the feeling I get when I look if I don’t make a payment for a month (I’m in deferment and get to choose): suddenly the interest looks monstrous and I can’t even hit the principal at all with what I’ve got. I hate that feeling and I never skip a payment so I don’t have to have it.
Even someday when I have no debt and all my personal finances are “ho hum” and on autopilot (I can’t wait!), I’m going to get the fun out of figuring out how much I can give to charity, and feel warm and fuzzy about that all the time. Charity is my thing, it gets me jazzed up. It’s my Mini Cooper. It’s my Rushmore!
Maybe you just haven’t found your thing yet?
April 10th, 2009 at 8:00 am
Well I don’t agree with frugal bachelor in that having tens of thousands of dollars in the bank is like having tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Having money in the bank is power. I don’t mean power in a bad way. I mean power to go on a spur of the moment vacation, power to splurge on a fancy meal, power to know that I control my own future. And that’s why I think saving money is fun.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:02 am
I feel deep satisfaction from savoring being in control of my financial life. I also sit back and truly feel the freedom that comes from having savings, not being controlled by my wants, having a sustainable lifestyle, and being able to make any choice (within reason) that I want - including travel, taking a sabbatical for an extended trip, quitting my job if I wanted and taking my time finding the right new job, being able to help charitable causes and people I care about, etc. The security and freedom are worth so much more than any temporary buzz I’d get from being financially irresponsible and indulgent.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:12 am
To me, it’s all about security. It’s nice to know that if something breaks, I can write a check for it and fix and replace it without worrying where the money will come from.
There’s another side too. Whether you call it an allowance, or “blow money” as Dave Ramsey calls it, you can build that into your budget and use that money to chase things that you enjoy. There’s no guilt involved–you spend that much or less, and you’re fine. That’s a lot better than blindly buying things and getting yourself in trouble, or living too cheap and not buying anything at all.
But security is the most important thing. When you have no debt, or minimal debt and a good plan to get out of it, you don’t have to stay in a bad job because you have $3,000 worth of bills you have to pay every single month. You can take a lower paying job that leaves you more freedom or more fulfillment. You can afford to retire at 65 if you want to, and you only have to take a job working at Home Depot because you enjoy it and want something to do, not because you desperately need the money.
To me, personal finance has an enjoyable element to it. My wife doesn’t really enjoy that aspect of it. To her, it’s a means to an end, and nothing more. Which is fine. Some people enjoy the activity and some people only enjoy the results.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:16 am
From what people have posted so far, and based on my own experience, I think the joy in PF initially works on two levels:
1) The emotional level: Feeling in control — especially if you recently felt out of control; feeling the self-confidence and satisfaction that come from making a positive change in one’s own circumstances; learning to trust yourself.
2) The financial level: having the freedom to make choices in your spending, and knowing the security net is there beneath you if something goes wrong.
Later, the third level of enjoyment comes from using 1 and 2 to give yourself more time/freedom to live in whatever way is most fulfilling to you.
Sounds as if Brent and his wife are already in control and financially secure. So, Brent, congratulations — now the ball is in your court: what do you and your wife love doing best in all the world, or what do you most want to do? What pastime or occupation brings you joy and/or fulfillment? How can your current financial skills and situation help you to arrange your life so that you spend as much of your future time doing that as possible?
April 10th, 2009 at 8:20 am
For me it’s about independence. With money in the bank, if I have a crappy boss and a crappy job I have some freedom to find a better one. If I get laid off, I know I’ll have a place to live and food to eat. When the winter months settle in Seattle, I can escape to some place sunny for a week.
Plus I am a math nerd. Personal finance problems are like real world word problems. I love playing with the variables.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:29 am
I think the common misconception of fun is misleading and somewhat hollow.
When personal finance is part of pursuing your dreams, only then does it become truly fulfilling. Sure you may enjoy some of the activities along the way like debt reduction, or investing, but the getting control of your finances does not have much meaning or purpose in and of itself.
And when I am talking about dreams, I am talking about the actions that connect with your soul and fill you with joy and purpose. Things like starting a non profit to dig water wells in Africa, being able to stay home with your children, freedom to pursue the career that resonates with you regardless of money. It is only within that context that things like paying off a mortgage become truly exhilarating.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:35 am
I like anything that involves money so I have fun doing anything that will help me increase my net worth.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:54 am
As others have mentioned here, I enjoy the liberty and security that comes from knowing that my financial house is in order, of being able to splurge occasionally and to travel. I wouldn’t find it fun, though, to double up on mortgage payments and save 15%.
I save/invest 15%, and I round up my mortgage payments to the nearest hundred. Maybe the margin between what I’m doing and what Brent’s doing is where the fun is?
It sounds like they’re doing great work financially, but working so hard that they can’t enjoy the fruits of their labor. Maybe try reducing the mortgage payments for a couple of months and see if that brings a little joy back? Finding the right balance seems to take some experimentation.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Sometimes it can feel exhausting but I have found that saving for bigger ticket items rather than pididdling my fun money away on Starbucks (which I still love) definitely gives me a joy that helps me stay motivated in my larger financial goals.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:56 am
I enjoy cutting coupons, I make a game out of trying to spend less at the grocery store each week. We challenge ourselves not to buy anything for a certain time period, or not to go out to eat for a certain number of weeks and when we reward ourselves for meeting that goal, it’s fun. We thrill ourselves coming up with free [or lower-cost] alternatives to things our friends enjoy spending money on.
I get a kick out of seeing the amount in my savings accounts go up with each direct-deposited paycheck. I enjoy spending hours taking paid surveys online, for cash or gift cards - I feel like I’m getting paid to talk/give my opinion, like cheating the system somehow. And when I was unemployed for 3 months, it was fun creating challenges to still enjoy myself while not spending money and picking up odd jobs off Craiglist was actually very cool.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:01 am
I think most people NEED the basics, they need to hear them, over and over, in new ways, until the light clicks on for them.
for the rest of us, they can serve as important reminders, sometimes finding new, easier ways of doing things that we want to be, anyways.
as to the WHY for me? I am not in debt, nor have i ever been (other then car & mortage). However, i live really close to my income. i live alone (roommate is not an option), so my funds are very streched. focusing on frugality gives me freedome to have money to spend on fun things, rather then just on bills. the freedom to repair my home, so that it’s what i want.
why do we do this? If you’re not doing it for freedom, the freedom to do what you want, and not what you’re FORCED to do, becuase of debt, then i don’t really understand, i guess.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Fun for my husband and I is…
* trying new things because they’re cheap like going to the library or taking walks together in the moonlight and finding out that they are so much more fun than buying books from the the big box stores or going to the gym.
* enjoying other simple pleasures like lounging around on the weekend instead of rushing from store to store.
* eating yummy homemade food instead of boxed stuff (which now tastes like the crap it is).
* seeing that we really can make a difference in our finances. We now look forward to checking our account balances every weekend!
* figuring out new and better ways to do things.
And thank goodness it is fun because we’re in it for the long run! We tried for years to spend less, but it wasn’t until we discovered the fun side that we started making progress.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:06 am
For me it certainly is seeing my nest egg grow. I’ve had a long term goal of having the ~20% down payment for a place I could call my own.
While I potentially have that for a townhouse in the bay area, the thought of actually parting with it and actually going through the buying of a property scares the bejesus out of me. I’m not sure I can actually do it.
Part of that sure is the way the market is right now, but part of it is the fear of carrying that much debt,4k for a car that I could of paid outright, but needed to start my credit history, was the one time I’ve really had debt.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:33 am
JD,
I must take strong exception to your statement, “When we spend too much, when we go into debt, we’re pursuing all joy…”. This could not be farther from the truth. And it perpetuates the strong belief in our culture that consuming equates to joy and happiness. Unequivocal scientific evidence has shown that over-consumption and related conditions, such as materialism and narcissism, actually reduce joy and happiness in life.
Contact me if you would like some references to this research. If the general public was more aware of the catastrophic emotional and mental impacts of over-spending and over-consumption, our society would experience significant increases in overall well-being.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:44 am
that mini cooper w/ your pic on it still cracks me up lol..
we all have savings goals.. my next “fun” goal is a 2009 infiniti g37 sedan :::drools::: but i’m going to wait a couple years for the depreciation on the car to kick in.. plus i’ll have a few more dollars then
April 10th, 2009 at 9:45 am
I’m surprised that someone who has been successful at getting out of debt did not find it enjoyable. When I did it, I was able to devote a third of my paycheck to debt payments and I loved it. The freedom, the simplicity– I’m also kind of a control freak though, so managing spreadsheets, tracking receipts, and challenging myself to be frugal were what hooked me
April 10th, 2009 at 9:54 am
I am still not saving much, and barely managing not to get in debt. However, there is a satisfaction to it:
I am 24, and I have not debt. I expect to have mortgage at some point, but right now, I am debt-free, and the free in there is priceless.
I spend less, but what I spend is worth more. I used to buy useless things I never used, and my place was full of stuff I didn’t like or didn’t even remember was there.
Now, I spend less, but when I do spend, it give that much more value to whatever I buy.
I also find that if you buy only one video game rather than ten, for instance, you select it more carefully, and in the end you can play it over and over again and enjoy it way more than when you buy ten and don’t finish any of them.
Quite often, less is more.
And finally, I know that when I do earn more, I will spend the money on things that matter for me. I’ve learned a lot about spending and saving, and I know my priorities. When I do have a bit more money to spend, it won’t just be lifestyle inflation, it will go where I want it to. That kind of security and comfort makes me happier than crazy spending ever could.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:58 am
I admit that I think it’s a little fun to watch my progress. I also like to celebrate little victories when I try cheaper ways to do things and I like them. For example, it was pretty exciting to learn that a ten-year-old durable car really did last me longer and require fewer repairs than a two-year-old ordinary car: I will never buy almost new again.
But the most fun thing is being able to take advantage of opportunities because I have funds available. For example, when one of my friends got her post-doc in Switzerland and invited people to visit her, I actually did. That was fun.
And the second most fun thing is being better able to handle adversity. For example, when my car broke down one hour through a four-hour trip, I didn’t have to call one of my friends at home to pick me up and then beg another friend to drive me back there to pick up my car when it was repaired the following week. I just rented a car and continued with my trip. That was fun, too.
I’m going to share someone else’s idea here, since it’s so awesome, but I don’t remember whose it was. Someone out there loves re-imagining everything as a battle against “the man.” She makes it a personal vendetta against this imaginary foe and so she gets to do things like laugh evilly in her head whenever she pays extra on her credit cards. “That’s $1.00 less in interest you’ll be getting from me FOREVER! Mwahaha!”
April 10th, 2009 at 10:02 am
I confess I’m motivated by fear more than joy - I fear being unable to take care of myself, either in old age or if/when I come upon hard times.
To me, sitting on a pile of debt (which I am) feels like sitting on a time bomb. I was never particularly spendthrift, and didn’t spend a lot of money on “stuff,” always saved for retirement, but I never had much of an emergency fund and was always carrying credit card debt of $2-9 K. Things would get hairier, then we’d get a windfall - unexpected bonus, gift, small inheritance, whatever - and pull back out of serious trouble. But I never got scared enough to really get serious about money. Finally in my late thirties I realized that these little bad habits were putting me at serious risk, and I’ve been motivated to plan better and be more responsible.
I guess it’s a negative motivation, and I agree I need positive motivation in the future; but for now at least it’s working!
April 10th, 2009 at 10:05 am
It’s only gets fun after you pay off your debts.
Not sure why this guy is doubling his house payments. That’s where the fun going. I would not be paying extra. After you have and EF, it’s time to have fun, vacation, travel, splurge a little. I would not be doubling payments, what a bore
April 10th, 2009 at 10:06 am
One of my joys is saving for something I want. I’m a grad student with somewhat limited means but I’ve been saving for a road bike for about a year. It’s getting warm and sunny here in Minneapolis and I can’t wait to get out and ride!
The best part is, I just found a great deal on a 2007 bike that fits me well and my budget.
It made it a little more difficult to find a nice bike I could afford, but I did it and it’s that much sweeter.
April 10th, 2009 at 10:11 am
I agree with others that say that joy is a moving target.
Your poster’s perspective may be part of his age, rather than his debt status. My DH and I hit the wall in our mid-thirties, when we realized much of our free time was spent on others’ needs - driving long distances on the weekends to see family (but they rarely drove to see us); working long hours for the paycheck, to get the money to pay the bills; rarely taking a vacation and spending leisure time together…
We found ourselves asking what we LIKED to do, rather than what we felt we SHOULD be doing, and it was a transformational conversation.
As a result, we saved up cash, and bought a boat, and we now spend our summer weekends camping and boating and visiting with like-minded friends. We also have scheduled annual vacations, to warm places, for our anniversary.
We are also doing a lot of the long-term things - saving for retirement, paid off debt, established a cash savings account, etc.
But what gives us JOY is the short-term priorities like camping, where we’re not spending our free time feeling like a hamster on a wheel.
April 10th, 2009 at 10:23 am
I wouldn’t call it “joy,” but i would cal it “deeply satisfying when i reach a financial milepost.
And i would argue that most people wouldn’t stick with disciplined savings palns, like maxing out the 401k or saving for retirement, UNLESS they have a hardcore vision of their goal.
Mine is to retire early. I used to say i wanted to retire at 55, but i don’t think that’s possible. So now my goal, which i believe is quite doable, is to retire at 60. I recently read that the average American woman retires at 62 (65 for a man, i believe) so i’m really only retiring 2 years early, but what they hey.
April 10th, 2009 at 10:40 am
To me personal finance is all about freedom. Getting down to the numbers and get a real time idea on what your financial situation is.
An any given time I like to know what my options are, what my budget is and what I can and can’t do in terms of spending.
I limit myself sometimes because I keep the big picture in mind.
I’d gladly sacrifice a bit of freedom now to attain a total freedom down the road.
April 10th, 2009 at 10:53 am
I agree with a lot of folks: budgeting and saving gives me a sense of security, and flexibility, and freedom. But it also gives me a nice sense of balance.
For example, I can either plan to set aside $3000 for “vacations” or set aside $3000 that’s a little more specified: $1000 for “nuclear family vacations”, plus $1000 for “extended family vacations”, plus $1000 for “friend vacations”.
In the former scenario, it is really easy to succumb to the extended family pressure to come visit two or three times or to attend every single wedding on the other side of the country. Unfortunately, that often takes up the entire vacation budget, and we’ve gone years without taking a vacation with and for our own nuclear family–and the far-flung friends wind up being seen…rarely if ever.
In the latter scenario, I can tell my extended family with utter confidence that it’ll have to be just one visit this year because that’s all we can afford. “The Budget” can stand in as the bad guy–”we’d love to come for all three cousins’ weddings this year, but it simply isn’t in the budget.” But “The Budget” also grants permission for us to reconnect as a nuclear family away from the obligations of work and school, maybe at the beach. It also means we know we can spend some money to reconnect with our friends, who are also very dear to us.
So budgeting makes me happy because I know I’ve got the necessities covered (mortgage, utilities, extended family visits) as well as the “fun” necessities (maintaining connections with old friends, dating my spouse). Before, we would skip the fun stuff because we didn’t have a good sense of where the money was going, and lived in fear of Not Having Enough to cover the traditional necessities. And after a while, that made us grouchy. Now, we have a line-item for those mutable necessities that make living fun. And we’re not so grouchy.
April 10th, 2009 at 10:53 am
I would argue that the tangibility of learning that is synonimous with personal finance is what makes it fun. If you are the kind of person who likes to better themself then you are almost automatically drawn to personal finance. It is like keeping score on your self improvement. If you read a chemistry textbook are you a better person for having read it? Probably, but how can you tell? If you read books on finance the correlation between your personal growth and your wealth accumulation is stronger. People like to see results and growth, and what better way than watching your wallet?
Badski
April 10th, 2009 at 11:04 am
I disagree with your premise. It’s not that I think that goals are worthless — far from it. But I don’t think *everyone* needs to have specific goals to make responsible financial decisions or to enjoy saving for the future. Case in point: me. I don’t have *any* specific goals. And yet I live well within my means, and save a very high percentage of my income for the future. Specifically for what? I’m not sure. I don’t even care. I am just extremely debt averse by nature, and see all savings as a layer of security between my family and disaster. That’s all it takes to make savings fun for me.
I put most of my savings in retirement accounts, b/c I would like to be able to retire someday, and I believe that I will be able to, but I don’t honestly have enough faith in the stock market these days to consider it a sure thing. I consider long-term savings a gamble…but a far better gamble than not saving.
I also save some for my son’s college education. But I cannot predict how far education costs will rise, nor can I predict what kind of school will be best for him when the time comes. So I just save a little bit, very regularly, so that I can help him out when that day arrives. I don’t expect it to cover the whole cost, but if it does, that’s a bonus.
These are both very long-term, and thus (for me) fuzzy goals. I don’t try to kid myself and put actual money values to them at this point. My health, for one thing, is a big question mark — I may not even live to retirement. But if I do, and if I have enough money to retire then: bonus. It’s not the reason I save money though.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Being somewhat new at “responsible” money management most of my joy comes from attaining the short term goals of getting rid of expensive debt. Today I paid my highest interest credit card down to zero! I started out on this project at around $2,500 in August. Two weeks from now I’ll eliminate another high interest line.
Beyond that, reading this and other financial publications energizes me to review my plan and visit my bank account nearly every day to assure accuracy. It doesn’t seem to matter what the topic is… I’ll read half a post and the next thing I know I’m drooling over what is going to happen the next time I get paid.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:16 am
I think maybe the people who don’t enjoy saving money and building their net worth maybe just don’t look to the future enough and are living too much in the present. Sure, if you totally ignore the future then saving most of your money and making extra payments on your mortgage are painful things to do every month, but if the future is always in your mind and you’re always thinking about how great your life is going to be 10 or 20 years from now, you’ll get pleasure from saving.
Personally, when I’m thinking of spending a large sum of money I think about how much money it would be in 20 years if I instead invested it or put it into a high interest savings account. Really every dollar you save today will be around 2 dollars 14 years from now (assuming around 5% interest). Think of all your purchases as costing double what you’re paying for them. Maybe that will help you to enjoy saving.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:25 am
What a great inspiration on a Friday!
Looking at my big list of ING accounts really helps me out. What do I have..
-a trip to Las Vegas with some girlfriends this summer (since they mainly live in Vegas, after I pay for my flight and hotel, all wining and dining is comped!)
-my wedding
-new computer… mine is on its last legs
-moving in with my fiance within the next year (we live with several roommates right now)
-monthly contributions to my Roth
Tangible, real goals that range from the fun and hedonistic to the practical and long-term.
On top of that, educating myself about how to handle money has made it more interesting. When I was blindly just shuffling away 10% with no anticipation of spending it, it was just a rote routine. Now that I have established a connection between the actions of frugality and saving money to pleasurable activities in the future (be it going nightclubbing or having a nest egg in 40 years), it makes the little day-to-day choices to save money easier and more natural.
And yes, I do love entering my receipts and transactions into Moneydance every few days. I think that that pleasure comes from just liking numbers, data management, and making little graphs tracking my net worth. I understand not everyone loves that part, however. I do think that graphing the ascent of my net worth is a nice visual trigger.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:28 am
@kick_push #51:
I too am looking forward to a Volvo S80 T6 (CPO only, after 2 yrs of depreciation) or a Lexus LS. The thought of an SUV or dump truck coming at me in a Cooper Mini is enough to push me upscale.
It’s precisely to satisfy our wishes that we save money. Some wish to make more charitable contributions. Some wish to provide for family members. Some wish to avoid being destitute in old age when working may not be an option any longer. Point is, SAVE, and the power and wish fulfillment will follow (if we live long enough).
April 10th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I’ve always been a frugal person - couponing, shopping yard sales, and driving an old car. It was fun because I CHOSE to do those things and felt smart for doing them. Now that my husband has been laid off, and our hard-earned savings have lost a big chunk of their value in the stock market, I don’t have a choice anymore. I have discovered it is not fun if you HAVE to be frugal.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Easy answer: try going into debt and having terrible credit for 7 years. Even better, try bankruptcy. You’ll see how fun it is to finally be in control of your present and future.
I’m never going to be denied an apartment lease again; I’m not going to have to hide from my mail anymore; I’m not going to leave my cell phone turned off for days to avoid calls from collectors. These things give me joy.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:50 am
I love money. And this topic.
So why do we like money? What is it’s value. It’s purpose.
To be spent. Money’s only real value is to be spent. Now, tomorrow, in the future, doesn’t matter.
So it is kind of amusing to hear ourselves.
“don’t spend money, save it.”
“why?”
“so you have some for later.”
“what will I do with it later.”
“spend it.”
“OK, so I am supposed to not spend it and instead save it so I can then spend it?”
“Right.”
The value of money is it’s POTENTIAL to be spent. Not actually spending it.
The potential is what gives us freedom of choices. Not spending money gives us the freedom to make choices to spend it.
Think about it. When you save up a sum of money, it’s value is what it can buy (material items, time, services, etc.)
But once you actually spend it on that item, the value is gone. If you find comfort in having a large sum of money available to you, yet spending it on something eliminates that comfort, you will likely not spend it.
Then, If you realize this, that you will not spend it because you don’t want to loose that comfort, then what is the real value of having it?
Things to ponder.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Wow! What a great way to think of it, Troy!
April 10th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
J.D., just wanted to let you know that after visiting the Denver Auto Show recently, my husband is now infected with Mini fever. What is it about that car?
April 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Fun for me didn’t really happen until about 6 months after I was out of debt. While I was paying down debt, I felt like a loser - glad that I was paying it, but I wanted those payments for me and not the credit card companies.
Once out of debt, I felt exhilerated for about a day, then sat on my hands for 6 months to regain trust with myself that I wouldn’t go back down the debt spiral. I didn’t, so finally, after 6 months I could relax and trust myself and know that my spending was under control.
So now it’s all fun for me because I have 6 automated savings accounts going toward irregular expenses like 1) gift giving, 2) car fund 3) house repairs 4) travel fund 5) emergency fund and 6) savings - money for me to use however I want to. So it’s peace of mind for me knowing that when I spend money, I won’t come up short later for property taxes or when Christmas rolls around, etc., and that car fund isn’t just for repairs, but for a new used car every so many years or so, that I can buy w/cash. Overall, I’m pretty frugal with my money, but there are times when I’m not, and so long as I’m within my budget, then why not?
A budget prevents me from overspending and piling up debt, so I’d never live without one. I know that it’s those irregular expenses that do the damage, and that I have to plan for those.
April 10th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
The reason it’s not fun is because you’re following a generic plan that tells you to do the ’smart’ things. What you need to do is sit down and figure out what you want to do with your life, where do you want to be? Then figure out how to get there. Paying off debt and saving money means more time on a beach or that mini you want or more time with family. It’s the difference between simply following the prescribed steps and really dancing like you mean it.
April 10th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
The things about personal finance that give me pleasure:
1. Being in control. When I have a pretty good idea of how I’m going to pay for those things that I need and those that I have consciously decided that I want, I feel more in control of my life.
2. Once I know that my basic needs are met I can indulge when I want. I can enjoy that latte or good bottle of wine guilt free because I know that the money for it is not coming from my retirement or my child’s college fund or my health insurance.
3. Potential freedom. Even if I want to stay in my job, I know that if it were to become unbearable I could leave because I have built some security into my finances.
4. Viewing it as a challenge or a puzzle. I want to save so much this month. Where can that money come from?
5. Managing money is about making choices. Some people may rather have a fine Italian leather sofa and cook at home. I might rather go out to eat more often and buy my sofa at an estate sale.
It is too bad that Jane Bryant Quinn isn’t on the personal finance scene any longer. Her advice wasn’t one size fits all. The second chapter of her book, “Making the most of your money” is titled, “The ultimate wish list.” She advises you to write the “ultimate wish list” and then reflect on just what buying those things and acheiving those goals will cost. Now you can choose. The last sentence in her forward is “Don’t postpone joy.”
April 10th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
For me, I actually find this stuff interesting and fun in addition to useful. With a lot of these things I love the idea of finance. I also find a great amount of fun in both saving for my future and buying things I truly enjoy for the present.
April 10th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
“I get a kick out of anything that deals with increasing my income. It’s like a game. It brings me joy.”
People who don’t enjoy playing the game, and the ‘kick’ that comes from making a good move, just don’t ‘get’ it.
Not their fault, but competing against the world that’s out to take your money is simply not for them.
I love playing the game.
April 10th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
The cha-ching sound of my quicken account when I enter receipts is fun.
Knowing that I can go two-three years without work if I have to is fun
Investing in micro-”peer to peer” lending on the Lending Club is fun.
Buying shooze with cash is fun.
Owning my own car is fun.
Dave Ramsey’s envelopes and snow ball effect is fun.
Once I paid off debt, personal finance become fun. In debt? No, personal finance was petrifying.
April 10th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
One word: accountability.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
@73, Jane Bryant Quinn is still on the scene — her revised edition of “Making The Most of Your Money” came out this year.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Where’s the fun in personal finance? Seriously?
Item: Knowing I won’t be living under the Seventh Avenue Overpass after I’m canned at the end of December is a mighty big thrill.
Item: Yea verily, knowing that if I never get another job as long as I live, I’ll be just fine financially creates a warm feeling inside my rusty little heart.
Item: Walking into a car dealership and telling the salesman that no, you won’t need to work out a loan because you’ll be paying in cash is always entertaining.
Item: Having the house paid off…oh, yeah! Unending source of pleasure.
Item: Knowing there’s enough in the Indulgences budget to buy a $250 purse this month and still not run into debt creates a bit of a hedonistic high.
Item: Understanding money well enough to feel to some degree in control of your finances is pretty satisfying.
Item: Discovering that far from being a dumb little bimbo who can’t handle money, as you were led to believe by certain persons unnamed, you’re perfectly competent to earn a living and manage your finances creates a smug glow.
One could go on and on. I love personal finance. It’s better even than make-up and toenail polish!
April 10th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
It’s a game for me too, and it always has been - maybe I was just born this way? I can’t even describe how excited I get over any addition to my savings, dent in my student debt, percentage off retail, or extra earnings I manage to make. But even MORE exciting to me is sharing the knowledge with people interested in learning it - the other day I helped my friend understand the benefits of signing up for a FSA, and she got as excited as me! Ultimately though, I daydream daily about not HAVING to work for a living (though I always plan to work or volunteer in some way).
April 10th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
In America only the wealthy have true freedom. Getting rid of debt, is gaining freedom. There is serenity in not having some company have power over you.
For instance, my step father years ago had a fight with AT&T because the company was over billing him. He tried patiently to get AT&T to fix the problem. It’d fix the problem one month, and make the same mistake the next. FInally, he said screw AT&T and refused to pay the company what it claimed he owed it his last month with the company, not even bothering to try and resolve the issue as he had in the past. At the time, I asked him if he was worried about his credit if the company erroneously reported the disputed amount as owing on his credit reports. He laughed. This is a man who paid cash for his $500, 000 house. There is tremendous freedom in that.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Count me among the people that don’t find personal finance itself all that much fun. It’s useful. Sometimes it’s interesting. I love the sense of security that comes with not needing to worry about money, but keeping myself organized such that I’m able to maintain that security isn’t really fun. It’s a little bit of a chore, actually.
You know what’s fun? Racing sailboats. That’s my newest hobby. It’s a ton of fun. Being out on the water with four other people, the wind and the spray in your face, trying to keep everything perfectly balanced to get every last ounce of speed out of the boat, watching as you slowly catch up to the boat ahead of you. *That* is fun.
Personal finance helps me to be able to afford that without worrying about the cost, but so does sitting through all hands meetings at work, and those really aren’t much fun.
I get bored with hearing about index funds versus actively managed funds (or whatever). I’d rather hear about your sailing race, or your trip around the world, or your homebuilt airplane, and how you were able to afford it, and how you’ll look back and remember it fondly for the rest of your life.
April 10th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
What’s jazzing me right now is saving enough money so that I can fire my boss and set out on my own freelance writing career with enough money in the bank to take care of me while I build the business.
I’m tucking $1000/mo aside. Every time I tuck a little more away, it gives me a sense of control over my own destiny and makes my hellish job more endurable for two more weeks.
April 11th, 2009 at 1:12 am
I LOVE the responses to this post!
Assuming you have an emergency fund, retirement fund, and your consumer debts all addressed, consider paying off your mortgage if you have one.
Pay off your mortgage.
Wait.
Eventually someone will ask you “What is your mortgage interest rate?” or “Who is your mortgage lender?”
No matter how you actually handle the question, you know the real answer. You have no mortgage.
Come back to GRS and report on what feeling that situation brings you. I imagine it is a positive feeling, perhaps even joyful.
April 11th, 2009 at 3:50 am
Why do (did) I save ? For the best three words in the financial language : Freedom Of Choice.
When are you definitely not free ? I returned from a tennis court the other day and apparently I am not playing with the latest model in tennis rackets as my brother remarked : Are you still playing with that thing ? I’ll bet everybody was staring at you !?
Somebody is up for a lead pipe morning.
(They were staring of course but that had more to do with my tennis skills…or lack thereof)
April 11th, 2009 at 5:52 am
From reading everyone’s comments I realized that one reason my wife and I find financial stuff ho-hum is that we’ve never been wildly over our heads in debt. We learned to live frugally when we were graduate students, we never piled up much debt after we married, and we rarely used credit cards, so Financial Peace University wasn’t a big revelation to us.
Paying cash for a car was fun and satisfying the first time. The second time, though, it wasn’t nearly as exciting because we’d already done it. (We always buy used cars, of course.)
We’re in education, and we both enjoy our careers, so we aren’t saving and investing in order to change jobs or quit work altogether.
Given all that, we find the day-to-day details of finance uninteresting. We do have goals, and we’re working toward them, but we clearly don’t feel the joy that people who overcame mountains of debt do.
Thanks again to everyone, especially to Debbie M. I’ll try the evil laugh next time I mail in the double payment on the mortgage. Mwahaha!
April 11th, 2009 at 6:35 am
Not sure if there is fun for everyone but, we are not all wired the same. I have a friend who was “grown up” when he was 15. He did everything , all the things they way they should be done. Money management came almost as a second nature. I suspect there are people like him who would find all this talk about saving , investing etc., as so much ho hum. Of course , they would say, everyone knows this and does it right, Right? For the rest of us, feelings of accomplishment come in small increments and it does not come naturally.. I think. Thank you for a great blog..
charles
April 11th, 2009 at 7:35 am
This is an awesome post. I believe that you must have goals. About 18 months ago, my wife and I were absolutely crushed with debt. We got on Dave Ramsey’s plan and have paid off a ton in 18 months. We have a long way to go, but we’re on the right track and having fun seeing the debt balances go down. In the long term, we want a timeshare and a beach-house, even though those goals are way down the road. Still, we’re on a path and we have goals. That drives us!
Andy
April 11th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I’ve never had bad habits or been in debt at all, but I do find personal finance fun. It’s like scoring points or getting a good grade on a test!
I do like playing with my spreadsheets and creating graphs. I also like systematizing things in my life as much as possible, so I just like knowing things like “what’s the average I spend per month?” or “how did that fellowship I got impact the overall curve of the graph?”
April 11th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
What gives me joy is that I can buy a brand new 997 Porsche Turbo with cash, but choose to just window shop and test drive instead. What gives me joy is being able to NOT worry about finances (a top 3 stressor to many), and take care of my wife if she’s ever sick or loses her job. I also find joy in being able to PAYBACK my parents, who put my through college.
RSC
April 11th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
The fun right now is in seeing how little I can spend as a grad student without feeling like I’m unduly depriving myself. It’s a complex balance since the majority of the money supporting me still comes from my parents. However, once I finish school and start working, then I look forward to start paying back my folks, as ResortAtSquawCreekTahoe said, and also to upgrade my current used car (which gets ~15 mpg) to a more fuel efficient used car, like a Honda Civic or (someday!) Honda Insight. So I guess I’ve got dreams to keep me going, as well as things to tide me over for the time being.
April 11th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
The fun is not in spending less and/or investing. The fun is… Getting Rich Slowly! It is all about your perspective.
I certainly don’t believe in budgeting. I believe in doing “wealth plans”. It is basically the same thing, but just a different perspective.
Wealth is exciting!
April 12th, 2009 at 9:38 am
I struggle to find the fun, but I reject the suggestion that it’s because I don’t have the right mindset…it’s because I’m caught in one of those no-win situations of simply not bringing in enough money (despite a full-time job AND freelancing on the side AND a blog, etc.) to meet my goals. This is also despite frugal living, constant sacrifices, etc. The next set of sacrifices are the ones I’m really not willing to make, like never being able to spend time with my children while they’re still relatively young, or giving up our house (which in this market might not even do much for our financial situation). Paying down debt is a lot less fun when the people who you’re saying ‘no’ to aren’t only adults. No real vacations, no dinners out, clothes from Goodwill…It’s not exactly the childhood I’d envisioned giving my kids. But it’s what they get, and we’re all doing what we can with it. Still. Fun? Nah. At least not the financial part of it all. (FWIW, when my husband and I were first together we were WAY poorer than we are now, and he was MASSIVELY in debt, and pulling ourselves out of THAT *was* actually fun. I think kids change everything, because they’re innocent bystanders. They didn’t make the bad financial decisions, so when they ’suffer’ in some way, there’s a lot more guilt associated with it.)
April 12th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
The whole goal for me is not to be rich, but to have enough assets producing enough income to pay all debt with out having to work at all if I chose not to. This is my idea of rich. That is the fun part to me is to see the passive income increase with every asset(rentals,investments,business,)bought and sold. To be able to travel and spend time with family and never have to worry about the income side of the problem. The comfort to know that if I should die today that my wife and kids can live on the income produced by the assets that we have.
Victor
April 13th, 2009 at 8:11 am
For me, personal finance comes down to four things: freedom, security, control and teamwork. To some extent they are inter-related.
Freedom means the ability to do what I want with my income. It’s not given over to a credit card company or a bank — it’s mine to do what I want with. Also, when we have some more debt retired, this will mean the ability to live well on one income, or eventually, NO incomes.
Security comes from knowing that if I lose my job or my wife loses hers, we can survive for 6 months on our savings, not including unemployment or severance.
Control means I know where every dollar is going, and I agree with my wife that our money is being used wisely. We also set aside money to be used for some frivolous stuff, which allows us the freedom to do what we want without the other saying we are wasting it.
Teamwork means that my wife and I are working towards a shared goal.
April 13th, 2009 at 9:03 am
I don’t know if I’d call it fun, but I certainly delight in looking back and seeing how far I’ve come in the past few years. At one point I owed over $35,000 in school loans, car loans and credit card bills and had nothing in my savings account (rather, just enough to keep it open). Now everything is paid off as of last Fall and I have more than $8,000 saved up between my regular account and an Orange account which I opened based on recommendations on this site. I’m not as far along as some of my friends but I’ve learned I’m only competing with myself, and right now I’m winning.
I do think it’s fun to have a friend or coworker admire my outfit and to be able to say, “I bought all this at the Salvation Army, cost me $12 total.” I’ve opened more than one person’s eyes to the joys of thrift store hunting.
April 13th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Last year DH and I took our first ever vacation together since our honeymoon (which took a long time to pay off… sigh). Five days, just the two of us, nice hotel, good meals, all paid with cash! We’re planning another trip for this year, and I think we’ll get even better deals on the travel. Being able to plan a really relaxing trip and knowing we won’t suffer for it later brings me joy, both in the planning and in the execution.
April 13th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I don’t have specific goals. I get joy out of watching my savings account grow; paying off my credit card in full every month; having drinks with friends; doing car repairs when they’re needed; and never wondering whether I’m going to overdraw my account or run out of cash before I run out of bills.
It’s pretty sweet.
April 14th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
People who are “doers” will be unsatisfied with the inaction side of frugality. Not eating out, not buying trendy clothes, not getting the latest gadget. The key is to find an active way to meet those goals to supplement the “not doings”.