The other part of this frugal lifestyle I have chosen, I am hoping my kids will have a better chance for a healthy planet.

Really? I see from the comments here that one of the couple is a retired minister, and I don’t think ministers pay into SS, but is there really no SS income at all from the husband?

And, JD, wow. I do think that charity is a personal matter, and there are a number of ways one can contribute to one’s fellow-man that are all perfectly fine, but if your defense for not giving is just “you didn’t grow up in a culture of giving,” I have to say I find that to be downright embarrassing. You really think it’s acceptable to say, “eh, no one ever TOLD me I had to do this, so I really haven’t ever bothered to think about it?” Are you an adult or aren’t you? Do you have an adult’s moral capacity or not?

Of course it’s more natural (not really easier) to give to charity if your parents always made it clear to you that it’s an expected part of your budget, but if you’re sophisticated enough to be budgeting for yourself, you’re certainly sophisticated enough to have worked out a position on charity.

2. Health care if they aren’t 65 poses a problem. Either they free-load on society when something bad happens or they get insurance which is costly. Maybe their church provides for their insurance?

“The family has chosen to go without health insurance, preferring to pay cash for care—as they did when Dana fell off a ladder and needed elbow surgery. “The hospital gave us a 20 percent discount” because they paid in cash, says Dwinell, a former nurse.”

Now I’m all for large deductible policies and HSAs, but you HAVE to have catastrophic coverage!

They are one injury, illness away from financial ruin! Remember Medicare dosen’t cover everything. An accident, cancer, etc can run easily into the hundreds of thousands. Guess who picks up the pieces? You and me, the taxpayers…

Health insurance should be mandatory or else you waive the right to get care. Why should I bust my butt to work hard and do things the “right way” when others are reckless and I have to pick up the pieces.

I’m happy that your giving (both of personal time and money) brings happiness to your lives. That’s as it should me.

My own comments weren’t designed to critize anybody who does tithe, donate time to charity or anything like that. It was aimed at certain posters who seem to think that people who DON’T do those things are somehow failing to do something they should do. Tithing and charity work need to be undertaken freely or it’s meaningless.

I also tithe+. I was a little afraid when I started…afraid I would not have enough money left each month. Once I started and treated it as an off-the-top part of my budget, it was fairly painless. I have it in my monthly budget spreadsheet right there with my mortgage. Tithing is a very personal choice. I made the choice and didn’t dwell on what I might spend the money on otherwise, but I understand the choice is not an easy one for every situation. It has become a regular part of my life and one of the parts of me I like. I also end up with a significant charitable giving deduction when I itemize my taxes each year.

Here’s our story on (early) retirement: I am 49; DH is 54. I’m a nurse; he’s a deisel mechanic. We’ve been married 32 years and have two grown children, 30 and 28. Always lived fairly simply, both worked at least one job each, were savers, and didn’t ever get into debt problems, because 1) we were so fortunate to have had good health, and 2) we didn’t buy much of anything new or anything that we couldn’t pretty much afford outright. Nothing fancy, nothing trendy, definitely nothing to keep up with the Joneses.

Paid for 1/2 of each child’s in-state tuition to a 4-yr college–let them pay the rest through loans, scholarships and part-time jobs as they saw fit, so that they had a vested interest in the process and gained a greater appreciation of the experience. Worked like a charm.

We paid off our home mortgage in 2002, and newly debt-free, decided that if we planned carefully and worked hard over the next 5 years that the we could *retire* at the end of 2007, living happily off of the return of our lifetime savings and investments. We figured we’d need around $45-50k/yr in returns. We factored in continuing to pay for our own health insurance, currently at $650/mo, all fixed and customary expenses, holiday and charitable giving, clothing, transportation, some travel (not Europe, however) and a little padding for sick pets, new appliances or whatever. We did not ever bring Social Security into any long-term equation as we are too young presently, and also didn’t want to hitch the wagon to a horse that might not always be there.

What we didn’t count on was 1) the market taking such a major correction, and 2) how much more money you spend when you’re still relatively young and have all that free time! :p

Fast forward to today: Retirment was good while it lasted. Realistically, what we probably needed in income is closer to $60k/yr, and since our investments are now only returning about $30K/yr we are now back to working PT jobs each to fill that gap.

Lest you think that our lifestyle must be somehow fast or flashy, know that we heat with wood and are DIY’ers, growing and preserving from a 1000sq/ft vegetable garden, sewing, doing own home/car maintenance–well, you get the picture.

So my honest advice for anyone hardy enough to have stuck through this loooooong comment is this: 1)retirement can (and probably will) be more expensive than you might have planned for, and 2)don’t trust in the market to safeguard your money. Fortunately we had half of the portofolio in fixed investments that are FDIC-insured and return a guaranteed interest rate that you can count on, but over a third is *poof*! Gone.

I don’t care at all when I see in this post or other posts, the idea that if somebody isn’t donating to charity, that they are somehow making a bad or less worthy choice. They aren’t. They are making the right choice for themselves.

It is entirely acceptable to prefer not to give money to charities. It’s nobody else’s business. It doesn’t even matter if they are giving in some other way. It’s still a personal choice. There’s no room for others to take a moral high ground and judge another person for what they do or don’t give to charity.

You can guess where I fall on this spectrum. I don’t place a high value on giving money to charities. I give occasionally, when the mood strikes me. I’ll help out a friend or stranger in need, if I can. But it’s not important to me to tithe or give large sums of the money that *I* worked for to other people. Don’t like it? I don’t care.

“$300 and $350 a month on charity? That’s unreal!

I’m sure glad I don’t beleive in god or I might be tempted to do something crazy like that too…”

(It’s not showing me the author’s name at the moment, sorry)

I just want to point out that

a) 300-350 might be a lot, or it might not be that much. It depends on the income, it depends on the person’s priorities. It would be more than 50% of what my husband and myself earn, for instance, we couldn’t give that much. For some people, though, it’s nothing.

b) whether you believe in God or not is not relevant, in my opinion. Of course, if you don’t, you probably won’t be giving to a church, for instance. But you might give for the environment (you live on this planet anyways), for children, for animals, for people in general. Whether you give or not is yours to decide, however don’t say it’s because you don’t believe in God. Lots of other people don’t, but the way you act depends on other things. Many people in the past, because they didn’t believe in God, have thought that there wouldn’t be a God to help other people, and therefore it was their own responsability. Not believing in God can be a reason to give, too.

What I mean is, donating time and money isn’t a matter of religion, of political party or anything of the like. Who you donate to will depend on that, but whether you donate or not, I think, can’t be reduced to this only. I don’t want anyone here to fall into a pattern of “atheists/liberals/christians/republicans/group X don’t donate as much” or something.

This being said, if you don’t want to or can’t donate 300-350, well then don’t

Unfortunately, that has significantly slowed down due to an unstable job situation and disagreement with my husband on the “right” amount. I hope to be in “joyful giving” mode again someday. One cannot be so poor that he/she has nothing to give, time – if not money.

I am wondering about one thing, though: how is it that two retired people are able to spend less than $100 a month on health care? Do they not have health insurance? Stubbing one’s toe in this country can cost hundreds of dollars—I’d like more information about inexpensive health care for retired folks, especially the many who have pre-existing conditions or previous diseases (such as cancer) that would make health insurance quite spendy. . .

I’m also nowhere near retirement (unfortunately) but am thinking ahead. . . . Thanks for the interesting post, J.D.!

@quinsy #31. I also thank you and understand what you are saying.

Charity means many different things to many different people. It’s difficult to adequately convey what we mean in depth in this forum. I thank all of you for trying to assume the best possible meaning of each others’ words. We’re all in this together!

(I thought I replied yesterday but it might have gotten lost in site the maintenance. So sorry if theres a duplicate.)

Anyone who examines another person’s budget will quickly realize everyone has different priorities and different circumstances. We are not supposed to match this couple’s budget (or anyone else’s for that matter). We are supposed to take from it the idea that we can still live a good life in retirement without endless cash on hand.

I agree that you must look up your charities to ensure that they are using money effectively and efficiently. It is now easy to find this information on the internet at Charity Navigator etc. So it is quite easy for me to make sure that all my chosen charities put more than 85% of their funding towards programs.

It makes sense to give so that 100% of your money goes to a person in need, and I definitely give you credit for giving. I was just pointing out that there are a lot of other fantastic things that charities can do in this world aside from hand someone a couple of bucks.

I find it heartwarming that so many people are passionate about charitable contributions on this blog. You all are wonderful people!

Reading an article in Forbes isn’t a good enough excuse to just write off charity in general. A little research can help you find a charity that meets your expectations (as long as they aren’t asinine).

There were a few problems with a couple charities near me, but that doesn’t mean every charity has the same policies. I know many people who work in the non-profit sector and I volunteer on a non-profit board. The staff and volunteers I know are accountable and respectable. No one is trying to cheat anyone.

It’s very inspiring to see their passion in action. That is priceless. There’s always going to be some overhead and some activities require more than others. What’s improtant is that the work is worthwhile and the organization is accountable.

A great organization not only helps today, but is strong and stable enough to continue its work in the future until it is no longer needed. No one would expect businesses to be set up as individual customers appeared. You need a business plan and to be organized and have knowledgeable workers. The same is true with charities. Like other corporations, we have strategic plans, which include how to increase efficiency and the best way to provide our services.

Wow…really surprised at how little is given away.

I don’t give money to charity. However, I knit toys for kids, which I donate. I volunteer. I donate food. I donate clothes. All of that cuts the middle costs and can be more efficient (obviously, to run charities, you also need actual cash. But not having to shop for food, clothes, toys and so one saves time, and when volunteers are few and far between, their time is really precious.

Now, I’m not saying a yearly trip to France that’s several months long seems necessary to me (of course, I actually /live/ there so my perception is biased) and I can’t speak about the health insurance thing for the same reason. I also wasn’t raised in a very giving, charitable environment.

But the comments made me realise something. I never realised some things were “charity”. Giving to environment association, animal association, the SPCA, donating books, donating clothes, donating food… I don’t actually consider that charity. To me charity is “giving to the poor”. And as much as people might think what I’m going to say is outrageous, my opinion on charity is “it shouldn’t exist”.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I don’t mean “be selfish”. I mean that helping the poor should be the state’s business. There should not be poor people in a well-run state, in my opinion. Therefore, I am happy to pay taxes according to my abilities, and I’ve never thought of trying to pay less taxes. I don’t get the people who are trying to. Streets, hospitals, schools are built with these taxes. Why would you want to pay less of them? And as much as I like being able to donate to causes that are dear to me, it is good to have the state to make sure everyone gets something.
Otherwise, we have the risk of people giving to some causes, but never to others. People shouldn’t have to rely on charity to be able to survive. I find it outrageous that they’re not being taken care of properly.

So to me, charity will always be an “extra” something. For other countries (Every year, my school gathered food and supplies to send to Africa. It was a wonderful experience), or to give a little more for something that is close to your heart. But leaving so much to charity, to personal decisions, seems very unfair to me. We’ve all seen some very vulnerable people (the mentally challenge, the elderly, the disabled) with barely anything, who had to survive on charity only.

And that makes me sick. Charity shouldn’t be needed. People should be able to get along without it. It should just be a bonus, and extra.

Now, I wouldn’t say “since it shouldn’t be needed, I won’t give anything”, because that would be wrong. But if I lived in a place that is less… socialist, I guess is the word? I think I would fight at least on a local level to make sure it evolves. It shouldn’t stay that way, charity is a desperate measure for desperate times, not the norm.

And I repeat, this is only my opinion. I’d be happy to hear what others think about this, in a civil manner of course.