This is a guest post from Jason Barr, who writes about personal development at Start Being Your Best. Jason is a potential Staff Writer for Get Rich Slowly. He’s 32 years old, has been married for seven years, and has a 2-1/2 year old son. He’s now a financial analyst, but he spent five years in the army as a Chinese linguist.
I’m the son of a man who advises people on retirement planning. I grew up in a home where I was required to save fifty percent of all the money I earned, just to set a good habit. By the time I graduated from high school, I had enough money in mutual funds to pay for my first year at a private liberal arts college (after scholarships, of course). I say all this to note that I probably should have known better…
Crash and burn
In the three years between the time I left for college at 18, and the time I was forced to drop out at age 21, I made a lot of really bad financial decisions. I had joined the ROTC program at my college the spring before I turned 21, not out of a sense of duty, but because I wanted the money. They were going to pay my way, a full ride, and give me a stipend.
On top of that, I had qualified for some non-military scholarships and grants that I would continue to receive, regardless of need. In short, I was going to be handsomely paid to go to school and study philosophy. At least, this was how it all played out in my head.
What I did, instead of waiting until all of this came to pass, was spend like there was no tomorrow. I didn’t work at all during the summer prior to turning 21. I actually paid for all of my living expenses using a credit card. I used the card I got my freshman year with a ridiculously high limit, and maxed that sucker out. Then, I got another one. Maxed that out, too. No big deal, though. I’d pay it all off when I got my first quarter’s payments on my scholarships.
A light should have gone off in my head when my ROTC payments didn’t come through at the same time as everyone else’s, but the financial aid office told me not to worry about it. I cashed out all my other scholarships and, instead of paying off my credit card balances, I spent it on stupid stuff. I’m sure a lot of you have the experience of looking at a five figure credit balance and honestly not being able to remember one thing that you bought with it. That was me.
The real world
When my scholarship fell through, I owed over $5000 to my college for just the first quarter of the year. I had no money to speak of in my bank account, and a pile of bills. I was told I couldn’t come back to school until I paid my bill to them, and since I had no money, I had to drop out. I had to start my “adult life” a couple of years before I had planned, and in a serious financial hole.
I’m not sure how I allowed myself to get to that point, except to say that I had never really failed at anything before. Since nothing had ever gone wrong for me, I was totally unprepared for when it did. I had no concept of how life worked in the real world. I ended up getting a job working nights, assembling computer components at a factory in town. I made about $10 an hour.
I distinctly remember when my failure hit me full-force; I deposited a paycheck for $660 that was supposed to last me for two weeks, and I had just written $800 worth of checks for bills the day before. I cried when I realized my paycheck didn’t even get me back to being broke.
All this information is really prologue to what I learned being a first-time failure. I know there are probably a lot of people out there like I was; it’s your first time away from mom and dad, and you’re testing your freedom. You’ve never had to be responsible for yourself before, and you don’t really know how to make good decisions without a safety net. Maybe you’ve made one huge dumb mistake, or a lot of little ones that have compounded. The reason I write what I do is to help people who’ve never failed before figure out how to recover.
Lessons learned
I learned a couple of key things as a first-time failure that are crucial to getting back to on track:
Life is hard, and there aren’t any do-overs. I suppose I knew this on an intellectual level, but I was never really confronted with the pain of failure. I’d always done everything right until this point in my life. When I deposited that paycheck and saw my balance, I knew I was in it way too deep. This knowledge was so important for a couple of reasons:
- First, even though it was painful, I found out that failure wasn’t the end. Although sometimes I felt pretty low, I knew I could live through failure. As cliché as it sounds, I had to learn to forgive myself. There was a lot of ramen eating, and I didn’t buy a whole lot of new clothes for quite a while, but I never spent a night on the street. I eventually learned to look back at the decisions I’d made not with shame, but with determination. That feeling of helplessness was foreign to me, and I didn’t like it. Rather than wallowing in self-pity, I used that feeling as motivation learn how to get out of the crummy situation I’d gotten myself in.
- Second, my failure humbled me to the point that I was willing to admit I didn’t have all the answers. While I had to learn to forgive myself, there was also a change in me that always remembered that feeling of powerlessness. I began to understand that I wasn’t always going to know exactly what to do, and that I had to look outside myself to find the answers.
Sometimes it’s easier to increase than decrease. J.D. talks a lot about living frugally, and boy did I ever! I lived in an efficiency apartment, attached to the back of some folk’s house in a pretty crummy part of town.
I had a two-burner stove, a small fridge, a mattress on the floor, and a desk. I didn’t have a TV, and I sure didn’t have a whole lot of luxuries. I was operating on a pretty strict budget, and I still was having a tough time making ends meet. There came a point where I couldn’t really cut any more expenses. I knew I had to make more money. Once I really started applying myself, the promotions started to come at work, and pretty soon I was making more than my friends who had actually finished college.
Frugality will only take you so far. You have to keep your eyes open for chances to increase your top line so you can show improvements on your bottom line. Maybe that means you need to sell some of your stuff on eBay to make rent, or get rid of your car and ride a bike, if it’s feasible. Those types of things give you quick infusions of cash to keep food on the table so you can work on longer-term improvements.
Maybe you can take on extra shifts at work like I did, or start a side business. Try taking on a second job if you have to. If you’re young and unattached, you could even look at joining the military. That sounds like a pretty radical thing, but I got a big signing bonus (multiple tens of thousands of dollars) when I enlisted in a high-skill field after 9/11. I didn’t enlist for the money (that time, as opposed to ROTC in college), but I know of some folks who did. That kind of money can make a huge difference, as long as you’re willing to use it wisely. Don’t discount any means to eradicate your debt, even if it’s not something you would have considered in your “former” life.
Frugality has its place, and it’s very important. However, you’ll make a much bigger impact by bringing in more money, especially when you’re trying to pay off your debt.
Failing forward
Failing sucks. Anytime. Failing for the first time is even worse, because you’ve got nothing to compare it to. Take my word for it: you will recover. It will get easier. The fact that you’re reading this article, on this blog, shows that you’re taking the right steps to put things in order and fight your way out of the bad situation you’ve found yourself in. Don’t give up, and make sure you look for other people to share your challenges and successes with. You need a community, and you’re in the right place.
J.D.’s note: I subscribe strongly to Jason’s central theme — that frugality will only take you so far, and that increasing your income can make a huge difference. I try to mention this often at Get Rich Slowly, but sometimes I feel as if the message gets lost in the commotion around here. Sartre photo by A.J. Smith. Frugality, Pennsylvania sign by Coneslayer.
This article is about Debt, Entrepreneurship, Frugality, Real-Life Sunday, 9th August 2009 (by J.D. Roth)


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August 9th, 2009 at 5:16 am
Yawn. I’m bored and tired of listening to stories like this. It’s such old news. Got anything current???
August 9th, 2009 at 5:28 am
Out of all the guest posts, I think I connected the most with this one. We all have failures in life of one sort or another, but you have to keep going and not give up. The old saying “When life hands you lemons make lemonade”. If you never made any mistakes you would never learn.
August 9th, 2009 at 5:34 am
Jason, after you paid down your debt, did you go back to college?
Thanks for sharing.
August 9th, 2009 at 6:03 am
Everyone gawks at traffic accidents. Just out of curiousity, why was the ROTC scholarship late or not at all? I firmly beleive that the “Souldas, wouldas, and couldas” will absolutely kill you. Looking back ain’t looking forward. But, there is value in doing “lessons learned”. For those traveling the same road, but further back on it than you, how about giving that detail? Always interesting to daydream, “if the ROTC scholarship had been on time, then I would have …”. But very counterproductive. Possibly, you might have graduated yet crashed on “credit card overdose”. You’ll never know. I’ll never know. See that’s the difference between life and probability possibilities. No “do overs”. No “let’s peek at the cards to be dealt”. No rewind and rerecord. Argh! Life is hard. Choices are hard. But, scarier is all the choices we make by default without thinking and thinking of them as a choice.
Thanks for sharing your trip down this rabbit hole. Time to go make more of my own mistakes. But, I’ve put on my list “Don’t depend on ROTC scholarships”. ROFL! Not likely to get one at my age. FOWG that I am. I’ll ammend it to “Don’t depend on the Social Security check”. Same “church”; different pew.
August 9th, 2009 at 6:17 am
It depends on where you are and what your goals are.
If you’re making $25K a year, and having a spending problem, or can’t afford even enough to make you happy, yeah go off and earn a few extra rupees, while you pare your expenses. You’re not making much, and you have a lot to increase. Basically you have nowhere to go but up.
If you’re making $250K a year, and have a spending problem, it’s time to start paring down your expenses. It’s not easy to make a lot more than you already are (especially , with little things like internet auctions etc.) also it is probably harder to replace that income should it disappear.
The real magic of frugality starts kicking in when are earning 2x or more of what you spend. Then you can start thinking in terms taking a year for every year you work. Once you have established a particular frugal lifestyle and associated spending level as your baseline (e.g. figuring out you need a smaller house than you once had, or could have had), it will pay long term dividends because you will save on your housing every month. Many frugal lifestyle changes you make can have permanent savings consequences, but the extra income and increases only come when you make an effort to go after them.
August 9th, 2009 at 6:26 am
If you’re going to fail you may as well fail forward and learn from past mistakes. Everyone is going to fail at one thing or another if it’s not finances than it could be relationships or something else. The key is learning.
Remember, ” A fool learns from his own mistakes, A wise man learns from the mistakes of others”… so whenever you can it pays to listen to older and wiser people so that you can learn from their mistakes without making them yourself.
-Gen Y Investor
August 9th, 2009 at 6:50 am
WOW, quite the story there… Thankfully, at 21, I’m no where near the hole you were.
I’ve got a nice pile of student loans (bit more than average, but I’ve seen people with more) and an itty bitty car loan…. That’s it! Credit cards are used and paid off every month.
I’m still figuring out exactly how to deal with failures. Lately, my “budgets” have been coming up short, and I haven’t been ending on as good of notes as I’d like to… But, I hope, each month gets me closer to a better budget and better spending habits. I just can’t beat myself up over it all of the time. Thanks for reminding me of that!
August 9th, 2009 at 7:02 am
This post was just so-so for me. I think there is a major gap in that Jason does not explain what happened the ROTC scholarship. To go from a position in which he would get paid to go to school (ROTC funds plus scholarship) to crashing, I think he needs discuss the ROTC issue. I can’t believe his financial aid office just brushed him off when the ROTC money didn’t come through and nobody investigated. Seems like Jason must have done something to cause the error — otherwise the issue would have gotten straightened out eventually.
Also, I agree with Frugal Bachelor — one does not always get the most impact from increasing income over being more frugal. The principle Jason and JD put forth assumes that the person struggling with debt is not making much to begin with, but there are many people who earn very handsome salaries, yet are overcommitted to mortgages, kids’ tuitions, and other spending. For these people, frugality is where they need to focus.
August 9th, 2009 at 7:24 am
Even I have added a similar kind article in my blog. I hope that will also help users to understand better to learn from mistakes.
August 9th, 2009 at 7:28 am
You paid for all your living expenses using a credit card, beginning at age 18? You and zillions of others. That’s why the Obama administration passed the Credit Card Act of 2009 - to prevent them from rampantly handing out credit cards to unemployed young people with the intent of hooking them into revolving credit card balances for life. (Yes, unemployed people–that’s what is so appalling).
Under the Card Act (which will become effective as early as 2010), students must prove they have an independent source of income to repay their debt, or have a parent cosign.
(I don’t think that parents should co-sign because they will be fully responsible for all the debt incurred, and any late payments will be reported to their credit file — when kids are over 21, they’ll have plenty of time to build credit).
Thanks for sharing your story; I’m glad you managed to turn things around for yourself.
@ Generation Y Investor - “a fool learns from his own mistakes?” I disagree with you because I’ve learned almost everything the hard way, time after time, because it’s my life and I just plowed forward with it, doing it my way, and while I paid the price for my mistakes, they shaped me into the person that I am today, and in the end, because I retired early and my finances are sound, I’ve done pretty good for myself.
August 9th, 2009 at 7:32 am
However, I can say that the scholarship issue could have been sorted out eventually, but I would have still had the issue of how to pay for the quarter of school that I had free-loaded (the scholarship would have been sorted out, but it would not have been retroactive).
August 9th, 2009 at 7:40 am
Jason (at 7), thanks for the update on the ROTC scholarship issue. Perhaps then your story is just missing the sentence or two transition that states that. This would acknowledge the open question, but dismiss it as not an essential part of the message. I was distracted by the gap, and such a transition would ensure others are not left wondering about the ROTC scholarship, too, rather than your real message.
August 9th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Thanks so much for sharing your story. I especially appreciate your emphasis on being compassionate with yourself. I often waste energy beating myself up about past $$ mistakes….and it takes away from moving forward!
August 9th, 2009 at 8:04 am
Jason–”Frugality will only take you so far. You have to keep your eyes open for chances to increase your top line so you can show improvements on your bottom line.”
AMEN to this! With all due respect to the frugality crowd, cutting back on spending can only take you so far. It’s only 50% of the financial equation, the other half being the income side. For a lot of folks, being frugal may keep them afloat but it may not take them to a higher level. You usually need additonal income to move up (more savings, etc).
Excellent post BTW. This is the kind of information many of us come to personal finance sites for.
August 9th, 2009 at 8:32 am
This and AJ’s recent post have me thinking a lot —
My parents paid for my tuition (at a private school, but I also had to work for any and all possible scholarships) and my plan has always been to save like crazy to fully pay for my future children’s tuition as well. I have always been very conservative with money and have made responsible choices. My husband feels that we should save for an in-state tuition and anything beyond that our children can fund.
Do you think that the challenge of having to pay for your own tuition is a necessary life lesson? Or do you think that the burden of these decisions and student debt makes the lesson too costly for some at a fairly young age.
Appreciate any thoughts
August 9th, 2009 at 8:33 am
@ Sandy E. I agree that learning from one’s own mistakes is important and valuable. You’ve certainly managed to become successful following that route.
However, i think if you can learn from the mistakes of others in the long run you’ll be better off since you won’t have to deal with the set backs that others have faced. So you gain the knowledge without having to suffer in anyway. Obviously, you can’t do this all the time, but the more you do it the easier you’ll life will be.
-Gen Y Investor
August 9th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Jason - good post. I agree with your point about frugality vs increasing income. At some point one’s efforts at frugality begin to see the effect of diminishing returns. I guess the trick is to recognize when you reach that point so you can shift your efforts to the top end. Thank you for sharing your story.
August 9th, 2009 at 9:02 am
bon (#11),
I wonder the same thing that you do at times. My parents helped me out through college as well. They didn’t pay for all of it, but made sure that I was able to graduate without student loan debt.
While I’m eternally grateful to them for that help, sometimes I wonder if I missed out on growing up a little bit because I didn’t have that variable to worry about.
Of course, at the time I thought it was awesome, but looking back I wonder if it was really the best thing for me.
August 9th, 2009 at 9:17 am
@bon My suggestion is the old 50/50 plan. You pay half and the “young adult” pay half. Otherwise, it’s a four year party. (Mine was!) And, I’d cap the amount to steer the “young adult” to cheaper alternatives. You might even want to make it a note or IOU. Just to keep the pressure on for performance. (Don’t kid yourself; the IOU is noncollectable.) It’s all about getting the “young adult” to focus on ROI. Maybe my advice would be different if you’ve got a “brain surgeon” versus a “party kid”. What do I know I don’t have any kids. But I know what I failed to accomplish as an undergrad. “Tough love” may be warranted to help the “transition” from child to adult. imho, fjohn
August 9th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Jason,
What a post for someone who just got a layoff notice and will have no job after few weeks. Thanks for lifting my spirits high. I am glad to be part of this community. Thanks J.D. for publishing posts like these. Now I have to find everyway to to keep my income same if not increase.
August 9th, 2009 at 9:56 am
I like that this post was very personal and detailed your initial struggle with debt.
Who ever you wind up choosing to post on your site, I hope they don’t always post such long posts. Sometimes short, sweet and poignant are better then long and drawn out.
August 9th, 2009 at 10:25 am
@FrugalBachelor (5) - I agree with your premise. However, the data I can find states that only around 2% of households in the US will bring in over $250K this year, while the median income is somewhere around $50K. We’re preaching to the vast majority of folks here, not the extremes.
@Jason (11) - Geez, can you at least look at the comments you leave? HUGE, not HUGH. It wasn’t a debacle caused by some dude named Hugh.
@brooklynchick (13) - Bad/uninformed decisions and crummy circumstances are only good for learning from. You can’t dwell on them. You’re very right about allowing yourself to get stuck.
@bon (15) & @Tyler (18) - Not to give away too much, but my other guest post (going up tomorrow, I believe) will hit on this tangentially. So, well done for reading my mind.
My short answer is that I think kids should be given as much responsibility as possible. I know that paying my own way in college made me appreciate it more. I think more parents could consider paying off their kids debt after graduation with a sufficient GPA (or some other quantifier), instead of paying their way initially. Then, if the kid screws off, they’ve got some consequences. But, that’s just me. My thoughts may change as my son gets older.
@workevnoncouch (20) It sounds a little new-agey to even say this, but I truly believe that your mental state is much more important than your physical abilities in situations like yours. A positive attitude will allow you to find solutions to problems, while wallowing in sorrow (so to speak) will keep you from recognizing advantages right in front of you. Good luck, and keep us posted!
Thanks for the feedback, all! Keep it coming.
August 9th, 2009 at 10:34 am
The point of this post, I take it, is that failure sucks. Tbh, I don’t think I’ve yet failed at something really major, so I find that frightening! It’s more comforting to read about how people learned from their failures.
I must respectfully disagree with Jason, however, about increasing your income being more important than frugality. Certainly, there’s a minimum income everyone has to meet to avoid poverty. But beyond that, you would be surprised at just how little income you need if you devotedly cut your costs. I recently discovered this blog: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/, which has a lot of excellent posts on this topic.
August 9th, 2009 at 10:46 am
agree with Joe … boring, boring, boring … I’ve read the same story 25 times.
August 9th, 2009 at 10:47 am
The Frugal NYer (23)–It really depends on your income. Generally, if you’re making $100,000/yr and you’re in debt and have no savings, the lack of frugality is the main issue. If you make $25,000 and have debt and no savings, it’s mostly a lack of income. So I think Jason has made a valid point.
August 9th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Jason,
Thanks for sharing your story. I liked the theme that life moves forward and failure doesn’t stop the train! Thanks.
August 9th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Having been on the eve of pristine positions when downed by a drunk teen driver, I know the swells of affluence…and the desert of scraping. So Jason’s article is not only substantive, but it is also inspirational. One needs inspiration when in the desert trying to find water. I agree that there are no do-overs, not even if the tough breaks are not caused by one’s poor choices. But learning frugality is for everyone to learn, and it is helpful in other aspects besides dollars and cents. I think Jason opens the door for this reality, as well as giving some concrete ways to embrace simplicity and make it work financially.
As for the bottom line being to try to increase the income, this is so, if one can. Either way, not spending what one does not have to spend, is just plain smart.
I think Jason’s article is a testament to a sharp young man’s ability to not only take a lemon and make lemonade, but also to sell it at a good profit. Keep more coming from this author who writes from experience and knowledge, both.
August 9th, 2009 at 11:52 am
This is not mentioned enough. I worked two jobs during university to pay for living expenses and occasionally tutored for extra lunch money.
After graduation, I took on a part-time job at Williams Sonoma when I bought my first home even though I had a decent-paying day job. I did it for the 40% discount, which saved me thousands when I outfitted my kitchen.
These days, I write on the side to earn a little extra to pay for the toys, like the 13″ MBP I’m currently using.
August 9th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Loved this one. I guess cause I’m in pretty bad shape myself and feel like I’ve failed at life, so it speaks to me.
But I’m curious how you were able to make ends meet when you’re depositing a check for $660 and just paid bills for $800. You would have been in the hole and bounced checks (unless you already had money in the bank). How did you pull through?
And how did you manage to stay off the streets and get into an efficiency of your own (and thus avoid roommates)? Even being in a bad area of town, efficiencies are more expensive than having multiple roommates.
Great post, great writing style.
August 9th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
@Brenda (27) - Well, I had to rely on credit card cash advances at those points (and, yes, I did bounce a bunch of checks). Also, I’m not sure where you’re from, but in Idaho in the late ’90s when I’m talking about, my rent was $300 a month. I was renting from a private party, and it was, as I mentioned, not very nice. It was my situation, but probably not one that most could duplicate.
August 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
This story and writer seems a little too irresponsible, i understand the message trying to be conveyed, but you’re talking about large amounts of debt and you dont even have anything to show for it, and I would think that the small debt you would’ve taken out for that one quarter would have been worth the money and then continuing on to follow up on what you say was a very solvable problem with the ROTC scholarship.
many poor decisions, lots of debt, I’m happy you’ve found a new path but I have a hard time respecting the massive irresponsibilities
August 9th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
I think there are some great points here about frugality and the need to consider your income potential. I am a big believer in exploring second jobs and side businesses.
HOWEVER, I urge people never to join the military for financial gain. If you’re on the front lines, bleeding, with your head split open from friendly fire and your hands holding a weapon that obliterated a village of families who live in the mountains, will you think it was worth the money? If you join because you are passionate about the military’s agenda, fair enough. But make no mistake that 21st century recruiting is a poverty draft, in which many young people join simply because they need the money. And conscription — through a lottery or poverty — is never a way to build a committed military. Joining the military for financial gain is a terrible decision. That being said, I have tremendous respect for people who join the military as a result of informed decision making. But joining for money is not informed or, in my view, an ethical recruitment practice of the military.
August 9th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
As a recent college grad with mixed bag of success and failure behind me, this article really resonated with me!
August 9th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Jason, I totally agree with your article and had a few experiences of this myself in college and with the initial failure of a business (that just barely missed bankruptcy gratefully), and I experienced many of the same lessons you did. I’ve walked around with only cents to my name and wondered how in the world a girl with a college education could find herself starving. Yet I was also blessed with always having a roof over my head and friends and family who helped me during the tough times until my mind, body, heart, and spirit forgave not only myself but others as well. Sometimes the hardest thing is the anger and frustration, and also letting yourself really see the blessing and the transformation that can happen when living in discipline while also living smart. I had to learn both, and I love the wholistic spin you bring to this. You can learn all of the finanical advice in the world, but if you can bring yourself into the practice through your mind, inspiration, motivation, and practicality, then it the fruits are only words on a page. It’s helpful to have a real-world human look at failure transforming to success, because it gives real people the empowerment to make it real. Seeing that in a healthy way, and having the support and community around you is priceless. Thank you for sharing Jason!
August 9th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
A typo in my previous comment
“You can learn all of the financial advice in the world, but if you can’t (was can) bring yourself into the practice through your mind, inspiration, motivation, and practicality, then the fruits are only words on a page” Sorry about that, I was writing too fast apparently!
August 9th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Great post. This really resonated with me as I, too, got myself into a lot of debt with college (I did finish) but I had no concept of how much it was really going to cost me to pay it all back (student loans, credit card, car, etc). Maybe there have been a lot of stories like this put out there, but it is a true situation that a lot of young people find themselves in. I still remember the gnawing in my gut when I had to take jobs I wasn’t interested in after college just to pay my bills. As a mother now, I firmly believe that I need to prepare my child at an early age on how to deal with finances. Something I, and many others, had no training in!
To #30, Andrea, I agree that people shouldn’t join the military just for financial reasons and the military does push that to some degree when recruiting. But, the military can offer a great deal to young people who find themselves in such difficult situations and should not be overlooked as an option. I enlisted in the military 2 years out of college and one of the primary reason was getting out of debt. They paid off my student loans, gave me an enlistment bonus, and paid for my masters degree. But they also taught me valuable skills that can be utilized in civilian life and helped me to become a responsible adult. Like any job, you need to weigh the negatives and positives and for me, serving my country, learning a skill that would have cost me thousands of dollars in college, getting out of debt, and having a steady income made it a worthwhile decision.
August 9th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
I enjoyed the post. And I don’t want to sound harsh about the author, but just the idea behind why it’s generally accepted as a fact of life to spend so much on education.
People need to wake up and realize that education in the US these days is a BUSINESS. They are out to make money and most do not care what your future looks like. They don’t care if you get a job with your liberal arts degree or many other degrees, for that matter. They don’t care if there is a market for your skills. They want the tuition paid. Period.
And after you are done and paying back your loans, their alumni organization will call you regularly to ask for donations!
I think this is unacceptable and something needs to be done about this greater problem. A good education should not cost $80,000 or whatever. That is absolutely ridiculous!
Is a freshman English and Goverment REALLY worth $2,000 (or insert whatever other ridiculous number here)?
HELL NO.
If you or your parents have the money, go for it. But I have an issue with rampant “brand-conscious” education that wreaks of marketing, and not actual value. People need to pick up the clue phone and stop paying that much.
August 9th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Wow. These guest posts lately have been something else. This one was particularly good, I’ve done similarly bone headed things.
This has been one of my favorites in a long time because I see myself in this story, despite having a different life many of the circumstances are the same, and the kind of stupidity exhibited sure was the same.
That forgiving yourself thing is so hard. The human mind just doesn’t work like that, we want to engage in what ifs and sunk cost fallacies. But that’s what you have to do, isn’t it?
August 9th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Marisco (37)–Good points on Education being a business. Ever notice that the educators plan to address any and all ills is always more formal education?
When I was in high school going through the college selection process, I remember the college counselors coming in and talking about masters degrees already.
We were enrolling in undergrad programs and they were prepping us for grad school!?!?!?
And high school counselors NEVER suggested trade school to anyone that I was ever aware of. It was as if a student not planning on college beyond high school wasn’t any of their concern.
Whether we choose to see and acknowledge it or not, the higher education system is set up to self perpetuate.
More students in college = higher tuition = more debt = more college graduates = lower salaries for college grads because they aren’t in short supply any more. It’s the power of the free market at work all around.
And I make this observation as a college grad myself.
August 9th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
ok, this was good jibber jabber. I like failure–that is, failure that is learned and progressed from.
August 9th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
I can definitely relate to this post. I made some poor choices about college that make me want to travel back in time and give my younger self a talking to. But you can’t do that. The only thing you can do it fix your mistakes, learn from them and move on. Great job on moving on and getting to where you are today
August 9th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
@ #32, Andrea, who wrote:
If you’re on the front lines, bleeding, with your head split open from friendly fire and your hands holding a weapon that obliterated a village of families who live in the mountains, will you think it was worth the money? If you join because you are passionate about the military’s agenda, fair enough. But make no mistake that 21st century recruiting is a poverty draft, in which many young people join simply because they need the money.
___________
Your agenda and view of the military is quite obvious, despite the dribble you wrote at the end of your post. Do you have any statistics to indicate the percentage of military personnel that find themselves split open from friendly fire, or having obliterated a (presumably completely innocent) village of families? Better yet, do you have any stats on the numbers of recruitees that join simply for the financial benefits alone? The financial benefits of joining the military are a small part of the overall benefits, which in some cases exceed those that can be obtained in the private sector:
1. Training on honesty, integrity, responsibility for one’s actions, pride in teamwork - just to name a few;
2. Travel opportunities around the world, with the vast majority of overseas military folks outside of current war zones;
3. Difficult to rival health, disability and life insurance benefits;
4. Financial assistance for hands on training and classroom education;
5. Actually providing a service, as opposed to the vast majority of white-collared paper pushing jobs in America.
For every member of our military that decides to join for the financial benefits alone, I’d venture to say that there’s at least another 10 Americans that “talk out of both sides of their mouth” about the military, without having any actual first-hand knowledge or factual statistical information to back up their negative and overexagerated claims (which tend to always be followed by cut-and-paste “I respect the military for putting their lives on the line” mumbo jumbo).
August 9th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Dan (31)-
Did you even read the article?
August 9th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
I’d like to emphasize again that this is MY journey, and mine alone. While I hope that my mistakes can be learning points for others, I sure wouldn’t recommend that anyone try to take my route to learn about personal finance. Take tips from everyone, but don’t emulate anyone. Do YOUR thing.
August 9th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
bon @15 - I think that paying for your children’s college is a huge mistake! Teaching them to be adults and make adults decisions about money is a key learning for your children. This obsession of late of protecting our kids from everything “hard” in life is ruining a generation. Teach them how to save, how to budget, how to get and hold a job, how to manage their time for study and work. In other words teach them to be adults not continued dependents! Helping them is one thing while they grow, but do NOT create a scenario where they are dependent on you!
Jason - thank you very much for your transparency. I really enjoyed the article in part because I wanted to see how it would turn out, in part because you have a good writing style. I can only imagine how dark those days must have been and am glad to see you plodded on, learning as you went, and have gotten past those decisions.
August 9th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
I think it’s really important that people in their 20’s build a strong foundation and NOT mess things up by slacking and wandering from different job and industry. The sooner you can find your calling which I know is hard, the better you’ll be financially.
I’ve failed so much in my 20’s, that I decided to start my own blog to keep myself honest and share things. I’ve probably lost over $500,000 in the past 24 months due to the stock and property market due to my bonehead moves. But, things are coming back, and it’s all about STAYING IN THE GAME for the long run!
I recommend not counting your property or illiquid investments in your net worth. You can’t count on them!
Best,
RB
August 9th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Nice Post! You are quite right you can only go so far on frugality– down to the proverbial bone, But like I always say– at some point, you have to fatten the calf . . .
August 10th, 2009 at 5:22 am
About the ROTC thing, it’s not uncommon to be in a situation like Jason’s where the money you thought was coming doesn’t. ROTC’s often offer scholarships and the recruiter’s will tell you not to worry about it that everything will be taken care of. When you get to school and start talking to the military personnel, you can find that there are strings attached to the money or that you will get it but not necessarily when you need it because the military doesn’t work on the same time table as a college.
I have no idea what Jason’s situation was but I was closely connect to ROTC programs while I was in college and I had friends in similar positions. Sometimes it was that the ROTC decided that they would not give a scholarship because of the degree the person was persuing. Sometimes it was a scholarship that didn’t start til the following semester. Sometimes they wouldn’t start paying til you had gone through a summer training program because they weren’t sure if you would stay in or not. There are a lot of little issues attached to ROTC scholarships.
All this is not to say that the scholarships are not worth it for those that get them. If you can get the scholarship it can be very worthwhile because you get free money that you only have to pay back with service and you get incredible life experiences with that service that can really help you after your military career. It’s not for everyone but if it works for you it can be very fulfilling.
Jason, this is a great post. I look forward to the next one. Even if you aren’t the next staff writer I hope you continue to do guest posts for JD from time to time.
August 10th, 2009 at 6:37 am
I can relate to Jason’s story about learning life’s lessons the hard way, especially concerning the first taste of freedom and how dangerous and intoxicating that can be when lack of maturity in decision making is mixed in there. Ultimately, a person is defined by the lessons learned form their mistakes and it sounds like Jason did just that.
Thank you for sharing that story and the lesson learned from that experience.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:09 am
I have to say, after April’s article, I found this one to be a very close second. My reasoning is that it is VERY relatable, very psychological, and deals with a huge theme that both the author, JD and probably many people have struggled with on this site: ACCEPTANCE. I admire Jason’s ability to “fall forward” and to overcome such adversity. It may not have been as challenging as Neal’s story, but this article resonates highly with many of us who have gone through those credit-card sprees as young adults, to burying ourselves in debt, then having that essential “moment of clarity” when we realize our mistakes, accept them, create a plan, and turn things around. It’s always tough, but it is NEVER IMPOSSIBLE.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:20 am
I loved this post because even though my situation was not identical, I did go through a lot of the problems the writer did. I am currently drowning in student loan debt and I would love to see this writer get the chance to tell how he paid off his debt and methods he used to stay sane through it all.
Great job!
August 10th, 2009 at 9:50 am
I like this post best out of all the candidates.
August 10th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Totally related to this article. I didn’t have massive student loan debt because of all the scholarships and grants based on financial need BUT I never applied my potential and floated easily through school in 4 years. Then when I graduated it was in the middle of a recession and no one was hiring so I lived on temp jobs and credit cards. When I finally recieved a good job life was still good and I got married then failure came calling when my husband lost his job after I downsized my career due to stress and we had debt that has went up and down due to all kinds of life events (medical, more job loss, children) and everytime we start to get out of the hole something else happens. We just keep plugging away though.
August 10th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
ha! I love Jason’s comment about his own spelling, thanks for clarifying it wasn’t the HUGH debacle! Yes, this article has been written before, but I liked Jason’s voice in the piece. And this is a theme that will hit certain people at certain times. Like me. Just in the past month have my husband and I increased his income, and in conjunction with being frugal, we are now making serious headway on our debt. Actually, I paid off a credit card today. So this article to me is particularly relevant today. But had I read it 3 months ago I would be wishing there were more tips on being frugal! My point is that with tried and true themes, there is always going to be someone out there who can identify and is just coming into that part of their own personal finance adventure. Nicely done Jason, I think you wrote a great post.
August 10th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
It was hard to read the first part of this post. It sounds like you went through a very painful learning process. But the thing is, you learn more when you actually experience failure than if you read about it. I’m sure you are now more financially literate than most everyone else.
While I don’t see myself going through such a tough experience, I think it made you a much better person because you had to persevere through a seemingly impossible situation.
-DC
August 10th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
I believe that it is true that failure and suffering will in the end make you stronger. It will lay a path down for you to only succeed. I have been through it and I’m sure I’ll be through it again in another area of my life. It’s the roller coaster baby!
August 11th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Jason - interesting post - thanks for sharing. As for the military and the bonuses - I spent some time in the Army a while back and had the possibility of getting a good bonus if I re-upped. Three things stopped me:
1) bad examples - I knew many people who blew their bonuses on new cars, TVs - stuff - and then found they had tied themselves in for 6 more years.
2) good math - I took a look at what I could expect to get paid on the outside. With my bonus and my Army pay, I would make about the same as at a civilian job in the first year. That meant, of course, that I would be getting paid much less than that for the remaining 5 years (this all assumed a 6 year re-up to get the biggest bonus)
3) suitability - this isn’t strictly a financial consideration, but I found that I wasn’t well suited for the military way of life. It was good for the 4 years of active duty that I served, but I wasn’t sure i could do another 16 years until retirement. The problem was that after 4 years of service, if I re-upped for another 6 years to get the best bonus, I would then be 50% of the way to retirement. The military doesn’t give partial credit, so if you don’t serve at least 20 years, you get nothing in the form of retirement. Taking the bonus would have committed me to 10 years of service, and that, in my mind meant 20 years, because walking away from the retirement package when I was over half way there seemed stupid. In the end I decided I didn’t want to make the military a career.
August 12th, 2009 at 1:22 am
I agree that not enough effort goes into increasing our incomes. Frugality is important but there is a limit to how low you can go.
If you are saving $100 per month now, earning an extra $100 doubles your savings. That is huge. A couple of years of sacrifice: working extra hours, applying for higher paid jobs, starting a side business, etc. can payoff hugely.
It is not so hard for most people to save an extra $10,000 per year if they are willing to work for it.
August 12th, 2009 at 5:30 am
It appears that the discussion has gotten hung up on top line revenue growth and middle line expense reduction to ignoring the bottom line.
Yes, adding to the top line by increasing earnings MAY lead to bottom line growth for savings.
Yes, every reduction of the fat middle MAY lead to bottom line growth for savings.
Top line gets taxed (usually); middle line is after tax (usually).
It would seem that there is room in the big tent (i.e., the save more party) to accommodate the top and middle line champions.
For my part, I’d like to reduce taxes. Then everyone would have more to save. But, I’m such a dreamer.
August 13th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I never comment, but after reading this article I felt the need to comment. This is the kind of writing that I want to see more of in GRS. The style is entertaining and helpful. This is what I want to read when I read GRS!
August 14th, 2009 at 12:21 am
Excellent post.
September 3rd, 2009 at 12:27 am
Too bad Jason didn’t qualified.
But on positive side - I’ve discovered his blog and added it to my RSS collection
January 13th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Bottom line - You can’t ‘out-frugal’ your way to wealth.