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	<title>Comments on: Beyond Frugality: What I Learned from Failure</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/</link>
	<description>Common sense advice on money saving tips, how to get out of debt, high interest savings accounts, cd rates, money market accounts, mortgage rates, money management and more.</description>
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		<title>By: Tyler @ Dividendmoney</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-218588</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler @ Dividendmoney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-218588</guid>
		<description>Bottom line - You can&#039;t &#039;out-frugal&#039; your way to wealth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bottom line &#8211; You can&#8217;t &#8216;out-frugal&#8217; your way to wealth.</p>
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		<title>By: Leszek Cyfer</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-196012</link>
		<dc:creator>Leszek Cyfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-196012</guid>
		<description>Too bad Jason didn&#039;t qualified.

But on positive side - I&#039;ve discovered his blog and added it to my RSS collection :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad Jason didn&#8217;t qualified.</p>
<p>But on positive side &#8211; I&#8217;ve discovered his blog and added it to my RSS collection <img src='http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: azphx1972</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-191570</link>
		<dc:creator>azphx1972</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-191570</guid>
		<description>Excellent post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post.</p>
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		<title>By: Jil</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-191557</link>
		<dc:creator>Jil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-191557</guid>
		<description>I never comment, but after reading this article I felt the need to comment. This is the kind of writing that I want to see more of in GRS. The style is entertaining and helpful. This is what I want to read when I read GRS!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never comment, but after reading this article I felt the need to comment. This is the kind of writing that I want to see more of in GRS. The style is entertaining and helpful. This is what I want to read when I read GRS!</p>
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		<title>By: reinkefj</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-191187</link>
		<dc:creator>reinkefj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-191187</guid>
		<description>It appears that the discussion has gotten hung up on top line revenue growth and middle line expense reduction to ignoring the bottom line. 

Yes, adding to the top line by increasing earnings MAY lead to bottom line growth for savings.

Yes, every reduction of the fat middle MAY lead to bottom line growth for savings.

Top line gets taxed (usually); middle line is after tax (usually).

It would seem that there is room in the big tent (i.e., the save more party) to accommodate the top and middle line champions. 

For my part, I&#039;d like to reduce taxes. Then everyone would have more to save. But, I&#039;m such a dreamer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that the discussion has gotten hung up on top line revenue growth and middle line expense reduction to ignoring the bottom line. </p>
<p>Yes, adding to the top line by increasing earnings MAY lead to bottom line growth for savings.</p>
<p>Yes, every reduction of the fat middle MAY lead to bottom line growth for savings.</p>
<p>Top line gets taxed (usually); middle line is after tax (usually).</p>
<p>It would seem that there is room in the big tent (i.e., the save more party) to accommodate the top and middle line champions. </p>
<p>For my part, I&#8217;d like to reduce taxes. Then everyone would have more to save. But, I&#8217;m such a dreamer.</p>
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		<title>By: John Bardos - JetSetCitizen</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-191170</link>
		<dc:creator>John Bardos - JetSetCitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-191170</guid>
		<description>I agree that not enough effort goes into increasing our incomes. Frugality is important but there is a limit to how low you can go.

If you are saving $100 per month now, earning an extra $100 doubles your savings. That is huge. A couple of years of sacrifice:  working extra hours, applying for higher paid jobs, starting a side business, etc. can payoff hugely. 

It is not so hard for most people to save an extra $10,000 per year if they are willing to work for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that not enough effort goes into increasing our incomes. Frugality is important but there is a limit to how low you can go.</p>
<p>If you are saving $100 per month now, earning an extra $100 doubles your savings. That is huge. A couple of years of sacrifice:  working extra hours, applying for higher paid jobs, starting a side business, etc. can payoff hugely. </p>
<p>It is not so hard for most people to save an extra $10,000 per year if they are willing to work for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-191136</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-191136</guid>
		<description>Jason - interesting post - thanks for sharing.  As for the military and the bonuses - I spent some time in the Army a while back and had the possibility of getting a good bonus if I re-upped.  Three things stopped me:

1) bad examples - I knew many people who blew their bonuses on new cars, TVs - stuff - and then found they had tied themselves in for 6 more years.
2) good math - I took a look at what I could expect to get paid on the outside.  With my bonus and my Army pay, I would make about the same as at a civilian job in the first year.  That meant, of course, that I would be getting paid much less than that for the remaining 5 years (this all assumed a 6 year re-up to get the biggest bonus)
3) suitability - this isn&#039;t strictly a financial consideration, but I found that I wasn&#039;t well suited for the military way of life.  It was good for the 4 years of active duty that I served, but I wasn&#039;t sure i could do another 16 years until retirement.  The problem was that after 4 years of service, if I re-upped for another 6 years to get the best bonus, I would then be 50% of the way to retirement.  The military doesn&#039;t give partial credit, so if you don&#039;t serve at least 20 years, you get nothing in the form of retirement.  Taking the bonus would have committed me to 10 years of service, and that, in my mind meant 20 years, because walking away from the retirement package when I was over half way there seemed stupid.  In the end I decided I didn&#039;t want to make the military a career.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason &#8211; interesting post &#8211; thanks for sharing.  As for the military and the bonuses &#8211; I spent some time in the Army a while back and had the possibility of getting a good bonus if I re-upped.  Three things stopped me:</p>
<p>1) bad examples &#8211; I knew many people who blew their bonuses on new cars, TVs &#8211; stuff &#8211; and then found they had tied themselves in for 6 more years.<br />
2) good math &#8211; I took a look at what I could expect to get paid on the outside.  With my bonus and my Army pay, I would make about the same as at a civilian job in the first year.  That meant, of course, that I would be getting paid much less than that for the remaining 5 years (this all assumed a 6 year re-up to get the biggest bonus)<br />
3) suitability &#8211; this isn&#8217;t strictly a financial consideration, but I found that I wasn&#8217;t well suited for the military way of life.  It was good for the 4 years of active duty that I served, but I wasn&#8217;t sure i could do another 16 years until retirement.  The problem was that after 4 years of service, if I re-upped for another 6 years to get the best bonus, I would then be 50% of the way to retirement.  The military doesn&#8217;t give partial credit, so if you don&#8217;t serve at least 20 years, you get nothing in the form of retirement.  Taking the bonus would have committed me to 10 years of service, and that, in my mind meant 20 years, because walking away from the retirement package when I was over half way there seemed stupid.  In the end I decided I didn&#8217;t want to make the military a career.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan K</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-191007</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-191007</guid>
		<description>I believe that it is true that failure and suffering will in the end make you stronger.  It will lay a path down for you to only succeed.  I have been through it and I&#039;m sure I&#039;ll be through it again in another area of my life.  It&#039;s the roller coaster baby!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that it is true that failure and suffering will in the end make you stronger.  It will lay a path down for you to only succeed.  I have been through it and I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll be through it again in another area of my life.  It&#8217;s the roller coaster baby!</p>
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		<title>By: David Carlson @ Dinks Finance</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-191000</link>
		<dc:creator>David Carlson @ Dinks Finance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-191000</guid>
		<description>It was hard to read the first part of this post.  It sounds like you went through a very painful learning process.  But the thing is, you learn more when you actually experience failure than if you read about it.  I&#039;m sure you are now more financially literate than most everyone else.

While I don&#039;t see myself going through such a tough experience, I think it made you a much better person because you had to persevere through a seemingly impossible situation.

-DC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was hard to read the first part of this post.  It sounds like you went through a very painful learning process.  But the thing is, you learn more when you actually experience failure than if you read about it.  I&#8217;m sure you are now more financially literate than most everyone else.</p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t see myself going through such a tough experience, I think it made you a much better person because you had to persevere through a seemingly impossible situation.</p>
<p>-DC</p>
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		<title>By: Brooke</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-190968</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190968</guid>
		<description>ha! I love Jason&#039;s comment about his own spelling, thanks for clarifying it wasn&#039;t the HUGH debacle! Yes, this article has been written before, but I liked Jason&#039;s voice in the piece. And this is a theme that will hit certain people at certain times. Like me. Just in the past month have my husband and I increased his income, and in conjunction with being frugal, we are now making serious headway on our debt. Actually, I paid off a credit card today. So this article to me is particularly relevant today. But had I read it 3 months ago I would be wishing there were more tips on being frugal! My point is that with tried and true themes, there is always going to be someone out there who can identify and is just coming into that part of their own personal finance adventure. Nicely done Jason, I think you wrote a great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ha! I love Jason&#8217;s comment about his own spelling, thanks for clarifying it wasn&#8217;t the HUGH debacle! Yes, this article has been written before, but I liked Jason&#8217;s voice in the piece. And this is a theme that will hit certain people at certain times. Like me. Just in the past month have my husband and I increased his income, and in conjunction with being frugal, we are now making serious headway on our debt. Actually, I paid off a credit card today. So this article to me is particularly relevant today. But had I read it 3 months ago I would be wishing there were more tips on being frugal! My point is that with tried and true themes, there is always going to be someone out there who can identify and is just coming into that part of their own personal finance adventure. Nicely done Jason, I think you wrote a great post.</p>
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		<title>By: Dlyn</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-190888</link>
		<dc:creator>Dlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190888</guid>
		<description>Totally related to this article. I didn&#039;t have massive student loan debt because of all the scholarships and grants based on financial need BUT I never applied my potential and floated easily through school in 4 years. Then when I graduated it was in the middle of a recession and no one was hiring so I lived on temp jobs and credit cards. When I finally recieved a good job life was still good and I got married then failure came calling when my husband lost his job after I downsized my career due to stress and we had debt that has went up and down due to all kinds of life events (medical, more job loss, children) and everytime we start to get out of the hole something else happens. We just keep plugging away though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally related to this article. I didn&#8217;t have massive student loan debt because of all the scholarships and grants based on financial need BUT I never applied my potential and floated easily through school in 4 years. Then when I graduated it was in the middle of a recession and no one was hiring so I lived on temp jobs and credit cards. When I finally recieved a good job life was still good and I got married then failure came calling when my husband lost his job after I downsized my career due to stress and we had debt that has went up and down due to all kinds of life events (medical, more job loss, children) and everytime we start to get out of the hole something else happens. We just keep plugging away though.</p>
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		<title>By: Erin</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-190887</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190887</guid>
		<description>I like this post best out of all the candidates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this post best out of all the candidates.</p>
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		<title>By: Chickybeth</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-2/#comment-190877</link>
		<dc:creator>Chickybeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190877</guid>
		<description>I loved this post because even though my situation was not identical, I did go through a lot of the problems the writer did. I am currently drowning in student loan debt and I would love to see this writer get the chance to tell how he paid off his debt and methods he used to stay sane through it all.

Great job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved this post because even though my situation was not identical, I did go through a lot of the problems the writer did. I am currently drowning in student loan debt and I would love to see this writer get the chance to tell how he paid off his debt and methods he used to stay sane through it all.</p>
<p>Great job!</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190870</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190870</guid>
		<description>I have to say, after April&#039;s article, I found this one to be a very close second. My reasoning is that it is VERY relatable, very psychological, and deals with a huge theme that both the author, JD and probably many people have struggled with on this site: ACCEPTANCE. I admire Jason&#039;s ability to &quot;fall forward&quot; and to overcome such adversity. It may not have been as challenging as Neal&#039;s story, but this article resonates highly with many of us who have gone through those credit-card sprees as young adults, to burying ourselves in debt, then having that essential &quot;moment of clarity&quot; when we realize our mistakes, accept them, create a plan, and turn things around. It&#039;s always tough, but it is NEVER IMPOSSIBLE. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say, after April&#8217;s article, I found this one to be a very close second. My reasoning is that it is VERY relatable, very psychological, and deals with a huge theme that both the author, JD and probably many people have struggled with on this site: ACCEPTANCE. I admire Jason&#8217;s ability to &#8220;fall forward&#8221; and to overcome such adversity. It may not have been as challenging as Neal&#8217;s story, but this article resonates highly with many of us who have gone through those credit-card sprees as young adults, to burying ourselves in debt, then having that essential &#8220;moment of clarity&#8221; when we realize our mistakes, accept them, create a plan, and turn things around. It&#8217;s always tough, but it is NEVER IMPOSSIBLE. <img src='http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Di_in_Japan</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190819</link>
		<dc:creator>Di_in_Japan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190819</guid>
		<description>I can relate to Jason&#039;s story about learning life&#039;s lessons the hard way, especially concerning the first taste of freedom and how dangerous and intoxicating that can be when lack of maturity in decision making is mixed in there.  Ultimately, a person is defined by the lessons learned form their mistakes and it sounds like Jason did just that. 

Thank you for sharing that story and the lesson learned from that experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can relate to Jason&#8217;s story about learning life&#8217;s lessons the hard way, especially concerning the first taste of freedom and how dangerous and intoxicating that can be when lack of maturity in decision making is mixed in there.  Ultimately, a person is defined by the lessons learned form their mistakes and it sounds like Jason did just that. </p>
<p>Thank you for sharing that story and the lesson learned from that experience.</p>
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		<title>By: CB</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190798</link>
		<dc:creator>CB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190798</guid>
		<description>About the ROTC thing, it&#039;s not uncommon to be in a situation like Jason&#039;s where the money you thought was coming doesn&#039;t. ROTC&#039;s often offer scholarships and the recruiter&#039;s will tell you not to worry about it that everything will be taken care of. When you get to school and start talking to the military personnel, you can find that there are strings attached to the money or that you will get it but not necessarily when you need it because the military doesn&#039;t work on the same time table as a college.
I have no idea what Jason&#039;s situation was but I was closely connect to ROTC programs while I was in college and I had friends in similar positions. Sometimes it was that the ROTC decided that they would not give a scholarship because of the degree the person was persuing. Sometimes it was a scholarship that didn&#039;t start til the following semester. Sometimes they wouldn&#039;t start paying til you had gone through a summer training program because they weren&#039;t sure if you would stay in or not. There are a lot of little issues attached to ROTC scholarships.
All this is not to say that the scholarships are not worth it for those that get them. If you can get the scholarship it can be very worthwhile because you get free money that you only have to pay back with service and you get incredible life experiences with that service that can really help you after your military career. It&#039;s not for everyone but if it works for you it can be very fulfilling.
Jason, this is a great post. I look forward to the next one. Even if you aren&#039;t the next staff writer I hope you continue to do guest posts for JD from time to time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the ROTC thing, it&#8217;s not uncommon to be in a situation like Jason&#8217;s where the money you thought was coming doesn&#8217;t. ROTC&#8217;s often offer scholarships and the recruiter&#8217;s will tell you not to worry about it that everything will be taken care of. When you get to school and start talking to the military personnel, you can find that there are strings attached to the money or that you will get it but not necessarily when you need it because the military doesn&#8217;t work on the same time table as a college.<br />
I have no idea what Jason&#8217;s situation was but I was closely connect to ROTC programs while I was in college and I had friends in similar positions. Sometimes it was that the ROTC decided that they would not give a scholarship because of the degree the person was persuing. Sometimes it was a scholarship that didn&#8217;t start til the following semester. Sometimes they wouldn&#8217;t start paying til you had gone through a summer training program because they weren&#8217;t sure if you would stay in or not. There are a lot of little issues attached to ROTC scholarships.<br />
All this is not to say that the scholarships are not worth it for those that get them. If you can get the scholarship it can be very worthwhile because you get free money that you only have to pay back with service and you get incredible life experiences with that service that can really help you after your military career. It&#8217;s not for everyone but if it works for you it can be very fulfilling.<br />
Jason, this is a great post. I look forward to the next one. Even if you aren&#8217;t the next staff writer I hope you continue to do guest posts for JD from time to time.</p>
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		<title>By: DDFD at DivorcedDadFrugalDad</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190780</link>
		<dc:creator>DDFD at DivorcedDadFrugalDad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 06:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190780</guid>
		<description>Nice Post!  You are quite right you can only go so far on frugality-- down to the proverbial bone,  But like I always say-- at some point, you have to fatten the calf . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice Post!  You are quite right you can only go so far on frugality&#8211; down to the proverbial bone,  But like I always say&#8211; at some point, you have to fatten the calf . . .</p>
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		<title>By: RB @ RichBy30RetireBy40</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190777</link>
		<dc:creator>RB @ RichBy30RetireBy40</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 06:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190777</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s really important that people in their 20&#039;s build a strong foundation and NOT mess things up by slacking and wandering from different job and industry.  The sooner you can find your calling which I know is hard, the better you&#039;ll be financially.

I&#039;ve failed so much in my 20&#039;s, that I decided to start my own blog to keep myself honest and share things.  I&#039;ve probably lost over $500,000 in the past 24 months due to the stock and property market due to my bonehead moves.  But, things are coming back, and it&#039;s all about STAYING IN THE GAME for the long run!

I recommend not counting your property or illiquid investments in your net worth.  You can&#039;t count on them!

Best,

RB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s really important that people in their 20&#8242;s build a strong foundation and NOT mess things up by slacking and wandering from different job and industry.  The sooner you can find your calling which I know is hard, the better you&#8217;ll be financially.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve failed so much in my 20&#8242;s, that I decided to start my own blog to keep myself honest and share things.  I&#8217;ve probably lost over $500,000 in the past 24 months due to the stock and property market due to my bonehead moves.  But, things are coming back, and it&#8217;s all about STAYING IN THE GAME for the long run!</p>
<p>I recommend not counting your property or illiquid investments in your net worth.  You can&#8217;t count on them!</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>RB</p>
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		<title>By: Bear</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190758</link>
		<dc:creator>Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190758</guid>
		<description>bon @15 - I think that paying for your children&#039;s college is a huge mistake!  Teaching them to be adults and make adults decisions about money is a key learning for your children.  This obsession of late of protecting our kids from everything &quot;hard&quot; in life is ruining a generation.  Teach them how to save, how to budget, how to get and hold a job, how to manage their time for study and work. In other words teach them to be adults not continued dependents!  Helping them is one thing while they grow, but do NOT create a scenario where they are dependent on you!  

Jason - thank you very much for your transparency.  I really enjoyed the article in part because I wanted to see how it would turn out, in part because you have a good writing style.  I can only imagine how dark those days must have been and am glad to see you plodded on, learning as you went, and have gotten past those decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bon @15 &#8211; I think that paying for your children&#8217;s college is a huge mistake!  Teaching them to be adults and make adults decisions about money is a key learning for your children.  This obsession of late of protecting our kids from everything &#8220;hard&#8221; in life is ruining a generation.  Teach them how to save, how to budget, how to get and hold a job, how to manage their time for study and work. In other words teach them to be adults not continued dependents!  Helping them is one thing while they grow, but do NOT create a scenario where they are dependent on you!  </p>
<p>Jason &#8211; thank you very much for your transparency.  I really enjoyed the article in part because I wanted to see how it would turn out, in part because you have a good writing style.  I can only imagine how dark those days must have been and am glad to see you plodded on, learning as you went, and have gotten past those decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason  D Barr</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190752</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason  D Barr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190752</guid>
		<description>&lt;div class=&quot;greatcomment&quot;&gt;
Wow, thanks for all the great discussion on this, folks.  Sure didn&#039;t realize my suggestion to check out the military would be so contentious.  

I&#039;d like to emphasize again that this is MY journey, and mine alone.  While I hope that my mistakes can be learning points for others, I sure wouldn&#039;t recommend that anyone try to take my route to learn about personal finance.  Take tips from everyone, but don&#039;t emulate anyone.  Do YOUR thing.
&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="greatcomment">
Wow, thanks for all the great discussion on this, folks.  Sure didn&#8217;t realize my suggestion to check out the military would be so contentious.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to emphasize again that this is MY journey, and mine alone.  While I hope that my mistakes can be learning points for others, I sure wouldn&#8217;t recommend that anyone try to take my route to learn about personal finance.  Take tips from everyone, but don&#8217;t emulate anyone.  Do YOUR thing.
</p></div>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190741</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190741</guid>
		<description>Dan (31)-

Did you even read the article?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan (31)-</p>
<p>Did you even read the article?</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190739</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190739</guid>
		<description>@ #32, Andrea, who wrote:

If you’re on the front lines, bleeding, with your head split open from friendly fire and your hands holding a weapon that obliterated a village of families who live in the mountains, will you think it was worth the money?  If you join because you are passionate about the military’s agenda, fair enough.  But make no mistake that 21st century recruiting is a poverty draft, in which many young people join simply because they need the money. 
___________

Your agenda and view of the military is quite obvious, despite the dribble you wrote at the end of your post.  Do you have any statistics to indicate the percentage of military personnel that find themselves split open from friendly fire, or having obliterated a (presumably completely innocent) village of families?  Better yet, do you have any stats on the numbers of recruitees that join simply for the financial benefits alone?  The financial benefits of joining the military are a small part of the overall benefits, which in some cases exceed those that can be obtained in the private sector:

1.  Training on honesty, integrity, responsibility for one&#039;s actions, pride in teamwork - just to name a few;
2.  Travel opportunities around the world, with the vast majority of overseas military folks outside of current war zones;
3.  Difficult to rival health, disability and life insurance benefits;
4.  Financial assistance for hands on training and classroom education;
5.  Actually providing a service, as opposed to the vast majority of white-collared paper pushing jobs in America.

For every member of our military that decides to join for the financial benefits alone, I&#039;d venture to say that there&#039;s at least another 10 Americans that &quot;talk out of both sides of their mouth&quot; about the military, without having any actual first-hand knowledge or factual statistical information to back up their negative and overexagerated claims (which tend to always be followed by cut-and-paste &quot;I respect the military for putting their lives on the line&quot; mumbo jumbo).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ #32, Andrea, who wrote:</p>
<p>If you’re on the front lines, bleeding, with your head split open from friendly fire and your hands holding a weapon that obliterated a village of families who live in the mountains, will you think it was worth the money?  If you join because you are passionate about the military’s agenda, fair enough.  But make no mistake that 21st century recruiting is a poverty draft, in which many young people join simply because they need the money.<br />
___________</p>
<p>Your agenda and view of the military is quite obvious, despite the dribble you wrote at the end of your post.  Do you have any statistics to indicate the percentage of military personnel that find themselves split open from friendly fire, or having obliterated a (presumably completely innocent) village of families?  Better yet, do you have any stats on the numbers of recruitees that join simply for the financial benefits alone?  The financial benefits of joining the military are a small part of the overall benefits, which in some cases exceed those that can be obtained in the private sector:</p>
<p>1.  Training on honesty, integrity, responsibility for one&#8217;s actions, pride in teamwork &#8211; just to name a few;<br />
2.  Travel opportunities around the world, with the vast majority of overseas military folks outside of current war zones;<br />
3.  Difficult to rival health, disability and life insurance benefits;<br />
4.  Financial assistance for hands on training and classroom education;<br />
5.  Actually providing a service, as opposed to the vast majority of white-collared paper pushing jobs in America.</p>
<p>For every member of our military that decides to join for the financial benefits alone, I&#8217;d venture to say that there&#8217;s at least another 10 Americans that &#8220;talk out of both sides of their mouth&#8221; about the military, without having any actual first-hand knowledge or factual statistical information to back up their negative and overexagerated claims (which tend to always be followed by cut-and-paste &#8220;I respect the military for putting their lives on the line&#8221; mumbo jumbo).</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190735</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190735</guid>
		<description>I can definitely relate to this post.  I made some poor choices about college that make me want to travel back in time and give my younger self a talking to.  But you can&#039;t do that.  The only thing you can do it fix your mistakes, learn from them and move on.  Great job on moving on and getting to where you are today :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can definitely relate to this post.  I made some poor choices about college that make me want to travel back in time and give my younger self a talking to.  But you can&#8217;t do that.  The only thing you can do it fix your mistakes, learn from them and move on.  Great job on moving on and getting to where you are today <img src='http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190712</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190712</guid>
		<description>ok, this was good jibber jabber.  I like failure--that is, failure that is learned and progressed from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok, this was good jibber jabber.  I like failure&#8211;that is, failure that is learned and progressed from.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin@OutOfYourRut</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190706</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin@OutOfYourRut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190706</guid>
		<description>Marisco (37)--Good points on Education being a business.  Ever notice that the educators plan to address any and all ills is always more formal education?

When I was in high school going through the college selection process, I remember the college counselors coming in and talking about masters degrees already.  

We were enrolling in undergrad programs and they were prepping us for grad school!?!?!?  

And high school counselors NEVER suggested trade school to anyone that I was ever aware of.  It was as if a student not planning on college beyond high school wasn&#039;t any of their concern.

Whether we choose to see and acknowledge it or not, the higher education system is set up to self perpetuate.  

More students in college = higher tuition = more debt = more college graduates = lower salaries for college grads because they aren&#039;t in short supply any more.  It&#039;s the power of the free market at work all around.

And I make this observation as a college grad myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marisco (37)&#8211;Good points on Education being a business.  Ever notice that the educators plan to address any and all ills is always more formal education?</p>
<p>When I was in high school going through the college selection process, I remember the college counselors coming in and talking about masters degrees already.  </p>
<p>We were enrolling in undergrad programs and they were prepping us for grad school!?!?!?  </p>
<p>And high school counselors NEVER suggested trade school to anyone that I was ever aware of.  It was as if a student not planning on college beyond high school wasn&#8217;t any of their concern.</p>
<p>Whether we choose to see and acknowledge it or not, the higher education system is set up to self perpetuate.  </p>
<p>More students in college = higher tuition = more debt = more college graduates = lower salaries for college grads because they aren&#8217;t in short supply any more.  It&#8217;s the power of the free market at work all around.</p>
<p>And I make this observation as a college grad myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Snowballer</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190705</link>
		<dc:creator>Snowballer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190705</guid>
		<description>Wow.  These guest posts lately have been something else.  This one was particularly good, I&#039;ve done similarly bone headed things.

This has been one of my favorites in a long time because I see myself in this story, despite having a different life many of the circumstances are the same, and the kind of stupidity exhibited sure was the same.

That forgiving yourself thing is so hard.  The human mind just doesn&#039;t work like that, we want to engage in what ifs and sunk cost fallacies.  But that&#039;s what you have to do, isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  These guest posts lately have been something else.  This one was particularly good, I&#8217;ve done similarly bone headed things.</p>
<p>This has been one of my favorites in a long time because I see myself in this story, despite having a different life many of the circumstances are the same, and the kind of stupidity exhibited sure was the same.</p>
<p>That forgiving yourself thing is so hard.  The human mind just doesn&#8217;t work like that, we want to engage in what ifs and sunk cost fallacies.  But that&#8217;s what you have to do, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Marisco</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190703</link>
		<dc:creator>Marisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190703</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed the post.  And I don&#039;t want to sound harsh about the author, but just the idea behind why it&#039;s generally accepted as a fact of life to spend so much on education.  

People need to wake up and realize that education in the US these days is a BUSINESS.  They are out to make money and most do not care what your future looks like.  They don&#039;t care if you get a job with your liberal arts degree or many other degrees, for that matter.  They don&#039;t care if there is a market for your skills.  They want the tuition paid.  Period.

And after you are done and paying back your loans, their alumni organization will call you regularly to ask for donations!

I think this is unacceptable and something needs to be done about this greater problem.  A good education should not cost $80,000 or whatever.  That is absolutely ridiculous!  

Is a freshman English and Goverment REALLY worth $2,000 (or insert whatever other ridiculous number here)?  

HELL NO. 

If you or your parents have the money, go for it.  But I have an issue with rampant &quot;brand-conscious&quot; education that wreaks of marketing, and not actual value.  People need to &lt;b&gt;pick up the clue phone&lt;/b&gt; and stop paying that much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed the post.  And I don&#8217;t want to sound harsh about the author, but just the idea behind why it&#8217;s generally accepted as a fact of life to spend so much on education.  </p>
<p>People need to wake up and realize that education in the US these days is a BUSINESS.  They are out to make money and most do not care what your future looks like.  They don&#8217;t care if you get a job with your liberal arts degree or many other degrees, for that matter.  They don&#8217;t care if there is a market for your skills.  They want the tuition paid.  Period.</p>
<p>And after you are done and paying back your loans, their alumni organization will call you regularly to ask for donations!</p>
<p>I think this is unacceptable and something needs to be done about this greater problem.  A good education should not cost $80,000 or whatever.  That is absolutely ridiculous!  </p>
<p>Is a freshman English and Goverment REALLY worth $2,000 (or insert whatever other ridiculous number here)?  </p>
<p>HELL NO. </p>
<p>If you or your parents have the money, go for it.  But I have an issue with rampant &#8220;brand-conscious&#8221; education that wreaks of marketing, and not actual value.  People need to <b>pick up the clue phone</b> and stop paying that much.</p>
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		<title>By: Hanna</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190698</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190698</guid>
		<description>Great post.  This really resonated with me as I, too, got myself into a lot of debt with college (I did finish) but I had no concept of how much it was really going to cost me to pay it all back (student loans, credit card, car, etc).  Maybe there have been a lot of stories like this put out there, but it is a true situation that a lot of young people find themselves in.  I still remember the gnawing in my gut when I had to take jobs I wasn&#039;t interested in after college just to pay my bills.  As a mother now, I firmly believe that I need to prepare my child at an early age on how to deal with finances.  Something I, and many others, had no training in!

To #30, Andrea, I agree that people shouldn&#039;t join the military just for financial reasons and the military does push that to some degree when recruiting.  But, the military can offer a great deal to young people who find themselves in such difficult situations and should not be overlooked as an option.  I enlisted in the military 2 years out of college and one of the primary reason was getting out of debt.  They paid off my student loans, gave me an enlistment bonus, and paid for my masters degree.  But they also taught me valuable skills that can be utilized in civilian life and helped me to become a responsible adult. Like any job, you need to weigh the negatives and positives and for me, serving my country, learning a skill that would have cost me thousands of dollars in college, getting out of debt, and having a steady income made it a worthwhile decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  This really resonated with me as I, too, got myself into a lot of debt with college (I did finish) but I had no concept of how much it was really going to cost me to pay it all back (student loans, credit card, car, etc).  Maybe there have been a lot of stories like this put out there, but it is a true situation that a lot of young people find themselves in.  I still remember the gnawing in my gut when I had to take jobs I wasn&#8217;t interested in after college just to pay my bills.  As a mother now, I firmly believe that I need to prepare my child at an early age on how to deal with finances.  Something I, and many others, had no training in!</p>
<p>To #30, Andrea, I agree that people shouldn&#8217;t join the military just for financial reasons and the military does push that to some degree when recruiting.  But, the military can offer a great deal to young people who find themselves in such difficult situations and should not be overlooked as an option.  I enlisted in the military 2 years out of college and one of the primary reason was getting out of debt.  They paid off my student loans, gave me an enlistment bonus, and paid for my masters degree.  But they also taught me valuable skills that can be utilized in civilian life and helped me to become a responsible adult. Like any job, you need to weigh the negatives and positives and for me, serving my country, learning a skill that would have cost me thousands of dollars in college, getting out of debt, and having a steady income made it a worthwhile decision.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190695</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190695</guid>
		<description>A typo in my previous comment :)  &quot;You can learn all of the financial advice in the world, but if you can&#039;t (was can) bring yourself into the practice through your mind, inspiration, motivation, and practicality, then the fruits are only words on a page&quot;  Sorry about that, I was writing too fast apparently!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A typo in my previous comment <img src='http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   &#8220;You can learn all of the financial advice in the world, but if you can&#8217;t (was can) bring yourself into the practice through your mind, inspiration, motivation, and practicality, then the fruits are only words on a page&#8221;  Sorry about that, I was writing too fast apparently!</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/09/beyond-frugality-what-i-learned-from-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-190694</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/?p=4874#comment-190694</guid>
		<description>Jason, I totally agree with your article and had a few experiences of this myself in college and with the initial failure of a business (that just barely missed bankruptcy gratefully), and I experienced many of the same lessons you did.  I&#039;ve walked around with only cents to my name and wondered how in the world a girl with a college education could find herself starving.  Yet I was also blessed with always having a roof over my head and friends and family who helped me during the tough times until my mind, body, heart, and spirit forgave not only myself but others as well.  Sometimes the hardest thing is the anger and frustration, and also letting yourself really see the blessing and the transformation that can happen when living in discipline while also living smart.  I had to learn both, and I love the wholistic spin you bring to this.  You can learn all of the finanical advice in the world, but if you can bring yourself into the practice through your mind, inspiration, motivation, and practicality, then it the fruits are only words on a page.  It&#039;s helpful to have a real-world human look at failure transforming to success, because it gives real people the empowerment to make it real. Seeing that in a healthy way, and having the support and community around you is priceless.  Thank you for sharing Jason!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, I totally agree with your article and had a few experiences of this myself in college and with the initial failure of a business (that just barely missed bankruptcy gratefully), and I experienced many of the same lessons you did.  I&#8217;ve walked around with only cents to my name and wondered how in the world a girl with a college education could find herself starving.  Yet I was also blessed with always having a roof over my head and friends and family who helped me during the tough times until my mind, body, heart, and spirit forgave not only myself but others as well.  Sometimes the hardest thing is the anger and frustration, and also letting yourself really see the blessing and the transformation that can happen when living in discipline while also living smart.  I had to learn both, and I love the wholistic spin you bring to this.  You can learn all of the finanical advice in the world, but if you can bring yourself into the practice through your mind, inspiration, motivation, and practicality, then it the fruits are only words on a page.  It&#8217;s helpful to have a real-world human look at failure transforming to success, because it gives real people the empowerment to make it real. Seeing that in a healthy way, and having the support and community around you is priceless.  Thank you for sharing Jason!</p>
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